Here Today... Gone To Hell!

What is the reason for that? Freedom of speech / opion is not allowed???

wrong section dude.. and there are rules to follow

sorry my mistake, please move (not delete!) this thread moderators  ;)

Because people do things like put threads like this in the completely wrong section.

[singing]

Irony!!!

[/singing]

*does the irony dance*

OOOOOH RIIIIIIGHT. GIGGITY GIGGITY GIGGITY.

-Syth

prez I was just going to ask that.... I come here... read... post and when I come later the topics arent here anymore... and why? cos we are simply speaking our minds... this is getting insane... :-X

fight the fucking power!

I think that today is just a suitable day to ask these stuff, it?s the forum bday.... i am new on this forum, i?ve been here for only 5 months but I think I got the right to make some suggestions... and one of them it?s as simple as this one: freedom of speech.

cmon guys... every single thread that pops here that says anything, anything against our favourite band is locked, or moved or even ridicularized by other posters... I don?t get it... We are all in the same side I guess... we are here cos we love the band... and what is wrong in giving our opinions on it? saying we are getting frustrated, sad with something... I don?t get it at all... Why can?t we be fucking honest? Why are we allowed just to say good things on the band, praise it when sometimes we aint even sure about that... As an example... when u love someone, u r with that person... I?m sure u don?t like everything he/she does, I?m sure u get frustrated angry with her/him sometimes... this is the same thing! As much as we love the band, we can?t just keep ourselves from speaking the truth, speaking our minds... afterall, is this or not a damn forum?

I love this forum... it was the first I found out on GN?R and I didnt even feel the right to find out any other... I love ppl here, and it?s soo damn cool to speak with ppl from everywhere who hv the same tastes as u... the only thing I really dont like in here it?s just what I mentioned above...

I know you won?t even bother about this thread, and probably won?t answer but I thought I had the right to complain about this...

sorry.  : ok:

There are numerous reasons a thread will get locked/deleted/whatever.

The main reason: It's been talked about a million times before.

Other reasons: The thread goes sour from all the shit that is flying to every direction with people insulting other posters like hell. There already is a thread about the same stuff either in the same, or some other section (use search..). Usually the threads are then just merged.

A reason for a lot of the stuff is being deleted at the moment, is that a lot of the posts are just the same, idiotic, repetitive "the setlist is the same", "is CD ever coming out" or "this is why I should be the manager for GN'R", the last one followed by a masterplan written by a guy who has usually little to no skills in marketing and even less knowledge of the current situation of Guns N' Roses.



And as a sidenote, please don't apologize when you post. You don't have to do that. You can be polite, but being overly careful belittles your post. I, as I'm sure other mods do as well, read the admin section very carefully to explain these things (no matter for the how manyth time) so that posters would understand why we do what we do. The goal of my moderating is usually very simple: To help make this the best possible messageboard about GN'R in terms of minimizing repetitive threads and bullshit, and maximizing readability (which is a direct consequence from point no. 1).

There has been a _lot_ of frustration lately, and therefore a shitload of threads just complaining about shit. If this would be contained in one thread, it would be okay by me. But. Recently everybody seems to want to start their own topic on how wrong they've been treated because there hasn't been a huge announcement yet, or they don't vary their setlist enough.. Although neither of the things have been promised by anyone. Fans create a bubble for themselves by speculating, and when they fail, they complain about how wrong everything is, and how Merck doesn't know how to do his job. And I'm not even gonna touch a few other subjects that have stirred shit here recently.

Go on, say it.

"Freedom of speech"... Blah blah blah.


We delete what we consider pointless posts and/or threads.

I deleted a bunch of posts attacking other posters in a thread that was supposed to be about a show.

People have been complaining about the band ever since this board went online. For those of us who have been around, it gets kinda old after a while.

You might think your "I'm getting frustrated because there's no album" posts are fresh and new, but some of us have read those posts for years.


Some people seem to be here only to put down the band they claim to be fans of.



/jarmo

I fully agree with you Ines! ?: ok:

Fight the fucking power that's what we should do !!

The forum is full of bunch of wannabe's who can't stand the truth.

GN'R is also my fav band but some things right now are just not ok! So, indeed we should have the right to complain about that. Is this also not the reason for a forum to exist in the first place!??

I agree, that we sometimes complain over and over again over the same things...but like today there was a thread about the general feeling 'The mood is changing'....this was a general thread about GN'R complaints and the fact that a lot of GN'R fans are loosing their patience as they are constantly being fucked by their fav band. (no album yet, always same setlist, average to bad shows, lame promises...etc).

I also are loosing my patience but still have some hope left. That's also one of the reasons I use/read/post on this forum, as my faith in GN'R is not (yet) completely gone.

Many of the people who complain don't even attend the shows.

Makes you think...


Many of you act like spoiled kids. The show didn't start at 10PM, they didn't play songs I didn't hear in the past... You don't seem to realize that a majority of the crowd probably didn't even hear any of the new songs before. Imagine going to a show and hearing maybe five songs you never heard before.

They could play all new songs, but then you'd come here posting how lame it was because the crowd was dead and how they should've played more old songs.




/jarmo

Hey "complainers", you have that right (free speech). ?Go create your own forum, pay your own hosting/server bills, and then set your own rules. ?After last night's debacle of post after post of nonsense in threads meant to inform, I for one am glad that Jarmo runs his board the way he does. ?


No one is forcing you to be here, you're free to go at any time if you don't like it.





"This isn't Burger King. ?This isn't have it your way"

Correct, but also a lot of them, including myself, did attend some shows.

But hey, I read your comments and the one from Skeba, and I can dig that. I see what your points are to delete the threads.

Maybe you should think about starting a "Complaint section - Get In The Ring" ? :hihi:

btw smeagol2124: complaints and nonsens is not the same for me

what the hell? all you gays are whining and wanting freedom of speech on a geeks forum. this is fucking lame this isnt america its a fuckin website. Heres your freedom of speech motha fucka. Although G&R is pretty cool but its just a fucking band not the president. GET A FUCKING LIFE YOU RETARTED i STILL LIVE WITH MY MOM AND FINGER A DOLL FAGET NERDS!

The reason why people are still coming to visit this website is because GNR camp is giving presales, if  Merck didnt know Jarmo, this forum would be dead as fuck.

Mr. Obvious is obviously from the states. He might think USA is the best country in the world which is always right....   ::)

Why are a lot of USA people like that? Something in the food?

what the hell do you mean Mr. Pez. And no I did not miss spell that. ASSHOLE!

LOL, yeah I'm the real asshole here.

Please keep on posting the way you do.

Did your mom teach you to be cocky like that? Since you still live in her basement blowing yourself.

Well, yeah she did.

Bye-bye...

I think there is a fear of attending the shows, though. I don't want to be hassled with spending the time and money on a concert I might or might not see in its entirety or at all, which could turn into a riot, with a setlist I'm not real enthused about....? I mean, wasn't that the reason they didn't have a setlist on the UYI tour?? So I can see why people complain about it even if they haven't attended a show. True, there are people here who will complain no matter what, but they should be allowed to express their frustrations and discuss other points of view with each other. Plus, seeing how we have a lot of newbs here there is going to be frustration amongst them about this band and you can't delete that frustration out of the air. That's my opinion anyway.

Ok guys... I can see your point... I think I can understand you... and thanks for debating this with the posters... that really means a lot... really  : ok: Maybe u are right... many threads are just full of the same thing.... or posters offending each other *cough* Mr. Obvious* cough* with no aparent reason to... If that?s the reason u delete threads, then I fully agree with u.... It?s just that it gets a bit annoying when u see that those threads which are deleted are those who claim somethin against the band... You just start thinking that afterall you hv no freedom whatsoever to speak ur mind.... like today I posted in that thread wich was deleted today... I thought it was a really interesting thread, I answered myself and read some posts... and then I come back and it isnt there anymore u kno.... But I will choose to believe you and ur reasons to delete them... afterall I still think this is a great board  :peace:



Hummm... couldn?t you be a little more original?? lol I?m talking here about somethin I think it is important and believe me... if I thought it wasnt worth I would be here at all... ::)

Once again, I'm with you Ines. I have exact the same feeling. We understand the reasons for deleting them but it is frustrating and annoying to have those threads deleted which were in our minds interesting...

So, I repeat, maybe a new section should be created to get rid of all our frustrations with the new GN'R era:
- no album frustrations
- boring solo frustrations
- same setlist frustrations
- new GN'R = one man show
- ..etc...etc

Maybe an old vs new gnr section also: "Get In The Ring", wouldn't that be interesting

It's called Dead Horse and there's already threads for some of those "topics" there.


The problem is that some of you "frustrated" fans can't handle the fact that many of the visitors don't give a damn about that section. So your whining doesn't get the attention you seem to crave.




/jarmo

Hmmm... Was one of them mine? You know the one where I called people "so damn cool" and also suggested that some people have "fake optimism". Interesting. Fact is though my post was in response to people calling people who aren't affraid to ask questions "Fuckheads", "assholes", "idiots", "morons" "fucking cry babies", "losers". I guess it's o.k. to direct those types of comments at people with an opinion.

You know what I find so hilarious is that so many people here use the Sportst franchise analogy when it comes to the Gn'R name useage. So they use that analogy yet they can't handle criticism. They can't handle people who are pissed off with what's goin on. We're asked by managment not to speak of things because it might be what?  Tampering? Gimmie  break.  Imagine a fan website for the New York Yankees asking fans to stop saying "trade A-Rod he sucks" or "George is an idiot" or "fucking Yankees choked again, get some real players with heart", or if they weren't allowed to talk about possible trades simply because the havent' happened yet. It's called specualtion and there's nothng wrong with it. Asking fans to do such things  would be slap in the face.  I'm not saying this is your fault Jarmo but regardless of who's fault it is it fucking sucks and it's pretty insulting to us fans.

  I also find it extremely sad that for EXAMPLE:  A fan like Jim Bob and myself are equally excited for the new album. We're equally excited to see the shows yet we have vastly different opinions on the way things are. Jim Bob(just as an example don't freak out) is one who see  non stop positivity even when there's sometimes no real reason for it. I'ma  fan who tends to question and yes see the negative side of things even when there's somtimes no reason to.  Most times the things someone like me points out are obvious facts. Things like "it's stupid to tour AGAIN under the Chinese Democracy tag when there's nothing out there to even support the idea of this being the CD tour" That's my take bnut it is a fact that they are doing this again. Jim Bob's would be "well at least they're out there touring. It's better than nothing" Problem is such a  thing opens up so many cans of worms. They're living off the old bands past, they're scamming the fans etc, etc.  yet the fans who see this aren't allowed to express it. Why not? Why do we need to kiss the bands ass to such extreme lengths to be taken seriously as a true fan here at this site?  Why is a fan liek Jim Bob allwoed to call peole "fuckheads", and "idiots" yet when someone like me suggests soem peopel have "fake optimism" I get abnned for a day? Doesn't really add up does it. It seems that as long as you fall in line with a certain type of fan you can be as disrespectful as you want to the others. Jim Bob is my example, he's not the only one. 

One last thing I'd like to address is those of you who continue to say "When the album finally comes out you people will still bitch and moan" Well I'm no rocket scientist but I highly doubt it. Did it ever occure to any of you "true fans" that those of us that are pissed are so based on no new material and years and years of waiting? The funny thing is the people who aren't shy about expresisng their frustration have had ever right to do so for the last ten years. All we ever get though is comments from the "true fans" saying "when the album comes out...blah, blah, blah.." well you've been saying that for nearly a  decade.


PS. Thanks for the day ban Jarmo(or whoever did it). It's opened my eyes to to the fact that you need to conform to one opinion to be taken seriously as a fan here.  Imagine that. Gn'R fans being asked ot conform. ::)

I think it's fair to say that nobody cares about the dead horse section either way, frustration or adulation aside.

I have to agree with some of the points drawn in Bono's post, and this is not anything against HTGTH, it goes for ALL Guns N' Roses forums. There is a certain elitist attitude the fans get where something negative can happen, and if anyone remains subjective, the other fans start calling names like little kids. "You are questioning Axl's actions? YOU'RE NOT A REAL FAN!" This happens a lot and it gets old.

I personally try to remain as subjective as possible. People who are familiar with my posts know of my love for this band and my great anticipation for Chinese Democracy. This does not blind me, however, from seeing faults in both the band and the management of the band itself; yet bringing up said faults in a topic can often result in others throwing names at you.

Each fan is different. Each fan is separate and has different expectations for everything. If an expectation isn't met, it's not unreasonable for a fan to feel upset. Yeah, a fan going to see GN'R might be upset if they don't play Rocket Queen. It might be that fan's favorite song.

If the fan posts feedback later and expresses disappointment, I don't think it's fair to call him names. It's not bashing the band - it's just remaining objective and balanced.

I think there are two sides for GN'R fans - light or dark. There are people like Jim Bob who adore everything and praise everything, and then there are haters like Kaneda (from MyGNR) who just diss Axl nonstop.

You have to find a balance and you have to remain open and you have to learn NOT to judge people entirely by one post or one remark IMO.

I think all fan forums for this band suffer because of the band's history. It has divided fans due to its ten-year hiatus, its bandmember shifts, its controversy, and so on and so forth. There is less of a huge divide for bands such as Aerosmith, etc. because they don't have the same history as GN'R.

I think some fans on here like to pretend they almost know Axl on a personal level - they debate about his love life, post pictures of his girlfriends, discuss what kind of cologne he wears. These are the people who also start religiously defending Axl and I think that's a bad place to be, because at the end of the day we're all just fans of a band and of an artist and once you cross that line you can become too involved for your own good.

please leave my name out of your arguments.   I dont make posts about you.  ::)   if they banned you for a day its because you post the same stupid shit and you whine and moan all the time and you wont shut up about that shitty band U2.  : ok:   

the way people (such as yourself) claim they are 'scamming fans' (as you just did above) is not something any of us who really support this band care to hear.   we are fans of the band, not a bunch of ingrates.   like jarmo said, go whine and bitch in the Dead Horse section so we dont have to see it in every single thread.

and dont ever ever ever say me and you are in the same category.   you've stated multiple times that you dont even want chinese democracy to be that successful.   so its no suprise that your posts always have the negative connotation that they do, because they always will, because you can't get over the old band.     I wish Jarmo would have banned you permanent.

He referenced you as an outspoken fan because you are - in many people's opinions - perhaps the most consistently positive person on any GN'R forum. It's the same reason Kaneda is first thought of when people think of a "negative" fan - you two are at opposite ends of the spectrum, so you stand out the most. He wasn't targeting you; rather, he was using you as an example.


It wasn't a post about you, was it?


So it's okay for you to insult another band he likes? How is that fair? You tell him he shouldn't slam GN'R (which he doesn't), and then you slam a band he likes? Dude, if you want respect, you've gotta dish it out as well. You can't say it's not right for someone to post CONCERNS (not "slams") about aspects of a band, and then go and slam a group he likes. If you knew Bono you'd know he loves GN'R, but unlike some of the people here he keeps an open mind and takes things in stride. He's posted a lot of positive stuff as well - and he's said in the past how much he loves the Illusions.


He's also stated multiple times that this was taken out of context (by you, I might add), and the reason he said he wanted it to be unsuccessful was so that the band could gradually rise up again as they did in the late '80s and have a GRADUAL success rather than an album that comes out, does really well and disappears and everyone forgets about. He wants the album to have longevity rather than instantaneous success with a short life span. In the long run he wants CD to remain memorable and have a long life rather than a short one.

no that wasn't the context of his posts at all.   more like he doesn't want there to become an overabundence of a fans around who have the same opinions I have.   He is scared the new band might overshadow the legacy of the old band.  ask him yourself.

and btw, I'm not constantly positive.  I'm a GNR fan whose been lucky enough to have seen this band 3 times.   I have nothing against criticism if its needed.  I do have a problem with hearing about it constantly and dwelling on it.   If you are a fan of something, I'd assume it makes you more happy than sad.

This is true, 90% of the US has not heard any of the new CD song/demos! Stop bitching and be HAPPY Axl is in a good mood these days!

Fair enough, I agree about the criticism thing, but I think sometimes even the most die-hard fans can voice a concern and suddenly they're "traitors."  :-\

Yeah, I don't see eye-to-eye with all the mods of this site. It reminds me of books and films I've seen about Germany in the 40's....

I'm not necessarily talking about mods; I think this site has the best mods of any GN'R forum I've been to; I'm more specifically talking about other fans who will be completely over-sensitive about anything related to Axl and defend him against anything - even reasonable criticisms.

What the hell are you going on about. You are unbeliveable. I have no fears about the new band eclipsing the old band's legacy. Are you on crack? Here's what I said.  In some ways I hope CD isn't a huge success sales wise. In a  selfish way I want the album to be amazing and I want it to be somthing with staying power but in my own selfish way it would not kill me if the album failed sales wise. . In a  way it would be the fans way of saying  they want THE Guns N' Roses of old. It's the same thing with what happend with motley crue. Their album with John Corabi was great and I'm glad I own it but with the way the sales went on that album it showed the band what the fans really wanted. they wanted Vince back and the band eventually realized that.  It has nothing to do with me wanting the album to be a failure material wise. THERE! that's what I said so stop with your fucking bullshit of quoteing me out of context  and stop with your lame ass remarks about U2. that has absolutely nothing to do with this. If we;'re taling u2 bash away I can take it. But the way you drag them inot conversation is laughable. I'm starting to think you envy the fact that I love a band who consitently puts out material, consitently tours and kicks ass at it.  And Jim Bob I never put you and I in the same category. In fact put us into  opposite categories you fool(I get that one for free since he called me an ingrate, as per useualy he insults people who have a differing opinion).  Are you gonna sit there and deny the fact that both you and I have waited for over a  decade for this with equal anticipation? If you do than you're so high on yourself it's not even funny.  I come here ever single fucking day hopeing for somthing and wanting to talk with Gn'R fans. You do as well so get off the damn pedestal. Everything Russian  said in response to you was a fact. And if you honestly think you can sit there and tell me what I can and can't mention in my posts than you're dillusional. hey buddy you may not mention me in your posts but for a guy  who "ignores" me you read an awful lot of my threads and posts. At least I'm not a hypocrit.

Also just so we're clear cause I can picture the hamster running the wheel in your head right now trying to twist my words and shit.... I for one have also expressed numerous times how I want this band to be taken seriously. That's a FACT! I have been one who is very vocal on how ridiculous it is that the official website does not have Bios of the members. That's a FACT! I have been one who wants the band to promote themselves as Guns N' Roses and not "Guns N' Roses featuring Axl rose and his band of misfits" , Ive been pen about them trying to erase the image of Slash in Guns N' Roses Again FACT! I'm a  fan who drove 13 hours to Vancouver through the mountains in a winter storm to see the abnd and what did I get? nothing. Sure it was a riot but that's not what I paid to see. Yet in 2006 I was still supportive enough to fly out to New York to see them at Hammerstein. And knowing that there's no possible way it could get any cooler than that I still bought tickets for back to back shows in Calgary and Edmonton in December. All without an album release date, all with out a single. THE FACT IS Jim Bob I SUPPORT THIS BAND EVERY BIT AS MUCH AS YOU!!!! the way we express ourselves and deal with shit is the only difference. haha! That last part really grates on your nerves doesn't it.

If somebody has taught themselves to do this, please PM me, thanks.

"Ladies, if guys found a way to blow themselves, you'd be alone here tonight. All the guys would be at home. Including me."

- Bill Hicks

I'm almost positive Kujo has figured it out........................

Ron Jeremy can supposedly do it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autocunnilingus

There used to be a very disturbing sketch on there showing a young male with his mouth grasping his penis. I'm glad it was removed.  :nervous:

Sorry Jarmo, not really agree with you on this one (of course it is your forum so you do what you like with it). But for me dead horse is a section to talk about the days of the 'old band'.

That has nothing to do with complaints about the actual band and their perfomances.
NOTE: frustrations, compalints, ...etc is not necessarily the same as bashing the band = its a way to express our current feeling in the hope the band can take it into account (if they wish to do that).

A lot of visitors on this board do complain or out their frustrations, but the threads are deleted then. So also on that argument I not fully agree with you.

But to end positive: the board is fine as it is now, just want to give my input to maybe make it even much BETTER? :peace:

yes.. you managed to sucessfully be an annoyance on an internet messageboard.  good for you buddy.   : ok:  would you like a cookie?

lol believe me... he aint annoying at all... he is simply speaking his mind, debating something important as we all are doing here... we don?t need to start being rude to each other... or this simply will be closed and no more debat whatsoever and it all will become the same... How can it be so difficult to understand that ppl hv different opinions??? You aint forced to agree with those, you can disagree... but you don?t hv to treat that person as shit, as a moron...  I was a bit angry with the mods when I posted here first but now I can see that they r not the main problem... the problem is you guys... who think are great, just by bashing other posters who hv different point of views... this is ridiculous! and believe, those guys, who can ruin the threads by bashing the poster are the ones who are fucking annoying... believe me  ;)

 ::) No Jimmy boy that's not it at all. it grates on your nerves that you know I'm every bit as supportive as you are. That kills you. Nice to see you completely avoid everything I just mentioned in my last post as fact. Why? cause you know it's a fact and you know what I say is true. So instead of aknowledgeing it you act like you're so above everyone. Your little cookie comments and your little thumbs up smilie which you seem to have an odd attatchment. You're just like everyone else Jim Bob. You're as much an "annoyance" to fans like me as I supposedly am to fans like yourself. the differnce is I dont believe you should be told what to think. You're not this poster child of how a Gn'R fan should be so just get over yourself.

your the one getting banned for a day here and a day there.  not me. :peace:

Yeah, but with the "cookie" posts you won't be far behind.

i apologize, but I don't see why I needed to be brought into this whole thread in the first place.  its not my fault his threads get deleted.

You weren't brought into it on a personal level. You were used as an example of a positive type of fan.

Why not make ONE thread for people to bitch in. Then the people who dont want to see any negatives can just stay out of said thread. And then when anyone feelz the need to vent about the band or management they can do so in that one thread?

Seems like a good idea to me.

Funny. That's odd I don't ever recall being banned form this site before the other night. So as far as I know it's only been a day. Not a? day here and a day there.? That's just a classic case of you eggagerating the situation. As for being banned on tuesday night I still don't really know why? Nothing I did seemed to even remotely warrent being banned. I never called anyone a "fuckhead". I know someone who did on numerous occasions though :peace: 
   Serioulsy though I would like to know why I was banend the other night. I never recieved a PM saying why and nothing was ever mentioned in the Karma thread because apparently I didn't recive a negative karma. I was banned for a  day but my karma remined the same? How can I get banned and keep my karma status quo? I'm just looking for an answer cause the banning seemed a bit odd to me.


I agree 100%. It's not gonan solve everything but it would go along way simply by the fact that members who are in fact TRUE FANs as well could voice their concerns, disgust, frustration and dissapointment in the main section without bothering the "real true fans" who never have such emotions ::). This would be a great move and would show that people who feel this way aren't treated like second class members and fans.? By forcing us into the Dead Horse section to discuss such things it's doing just that. It's saying our opinions aren't as relevant.? Make it a sticky thread or not even. Either way it would help alot I think. Guys like Jim Bob could ignore the thread completely(he wouldn't) and everyone would be a littel happier.? It's not a cure all but it could be a eway to lessen the tention a little bit between certain groups of fans.

I believe thats what this is
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=37631.0

In the Dead Horse section.............  ::)

Yes. If people wish to continuously complain about the same setlist, and the CD not being finished, or it not coming out, they are welcome to do it, in the dead horse section. The section for topics that have been discussed frequently, and have been sort of.. well.. beaten to death.

I do believe that the subject is getting a bit old, and repetitive, and unless someone comes up with an amazingly new perspective on the whole subject, and convinces me and the rest of the mods, it will remain a dead horse subject.

Yeah, it must really disturb you that you'll have to complain where people might not see it. Which means you won't get the attention you think your complaining deserves.

 ::)


/jarmo

Am I one of those 5 people? I never thought I was complaining or whining, cynical yeah, but I don't go out of my way to whine about the setlist or the album coming out in every thread. I'm disspointed with a couple of issues with the band, but I consider myself a big supporter of them. And with the major topic of discussion right now being the shows I do voice my opinion on what I think. Seeing its a great source of irritation that I'm not at the shows but still voicing my opinions about the set list, I'll refrain from posting about the setlist any further.... until it changes :hihi: