Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Listen, I'm just a regular GNR fan like yourself. I don't like censorship, I think Merck is shady, and I believe the record to be dangled outside my window every night in my dreams just to be pulled away when I open the window.

But attacking Jarmo, and starting rumors on other forums that he's under Sanctuary ownership, things like this, they are childish. I hope those of you who don't trust Jarmo or think there is some sort of conspiracy go to another forum like mygnr or cd.com that helps SELL PRESALE PASSWORDS (see below).

I'm not sure how many of you were here in 2001. Or even 2002 for that matter. Or how about 1999? 98? I imagine the list gets smaller and smaller. You know who was here, supporting the band and sorting out the truth from the lies? Yes, Jarmo. When I first came on the internet, it was this site that brought me almost every single news story.

You hypocritical bastards complain about how Jarmo is handling this, but you have no problems with the fact that the two other big GNR forums both use google Ads that sell SCALPED OVERPRICED tickets on their websites. Jarmo has never done this to you, while Eric and Madison and BP all have. EDITED: THE ADS ON CD.COM HAVE BEEN REMOVED :)After all the work Jarmo did with the presales, the other forums basically spit in his face, but does anyone seem to have a problem with that? Nope. I'm not saying people should be dragged out into the street and shot for this - i wouldn't be surprised in his case if this was just an oversight, but my point is that how can people complain about one thing and not the other.

This is the best GNR forum on the internet, always has been, and as long as Jarmo is around, it always will be. The only thing that would make it better is if a lot of you who think you own the place left.

Personally attacking Jarmo is not right. 

But disagreeing & debating should never be looked upon as a bad thing.

Or harmlessly being a comedian.

I didn't say it was.

well said.   its best to keep management happy..  i agree completely. : ok:

oh yea mygnr.. i brought that up about a week ago with eric and he scolded me publically and decided my sig and avatar didn't meet guidelines.  ::)
http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=81024

(http://www.misterspunky.com/presale.jpg)

whooops.

mygnrforum.com profiting off the presale of passwords meant for us hardcore fans.   I think that forum should be cut off from anything to do with future presales.

Yeah, I didn't mean for this thread to turn into bashing other forums. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous it is that these same people who are all "oooh, i'm fighting the good fight, free speech" aren't brave enough or smart enough to realize how the other forums are profiting off them and unsuspecting fans who just surf in.

It saddens me to come on here and see Jarmo taking all this heat. If you people put all this energy towards the forums that actually hurt the GNR community, we might be able to get something done.

i agree dude, maybe it was not in the best taste to post that but just backing up the original post.

i can just imagine how hard it must be running a forum of this size.    can't keep everyone happy..

It's really nice that you posted this here.  I would really hate to be Jarmo on days like this, I would imagine he suffers from serious lack of sleep at times because he is so busy trying to monitor things-

I have seen those ads on those forums and I think they plain out suck.  Paying for your site essentially by promoting everything a fan should be against (scalping tix and sale of passwords) and I am personally thankful that we don't have that here.

Jarmo does a great job, as well as the rest of the mods here-

So, give Jarmo a break people, he is doing the best job he can trying to keep EVERYONE happy.  Just think what he is going to have to deal with in the coming months with so many things happening in GNR world.

BTW Jim Bob, interesting title to the contents of your J drive there, haha :hihi:

If it weren't for Jarmo and HTGTH, I don't think the GnR online community would be even close to as dedicated as it is now. I think people forget how massive it is, and also how quickly things can take off. I agree with Jim that I couldn't imagine running a site this big. This was also the first GnR site I ever came to, and the one I come to first, because no other site compares to this one. Disregarding any feelings on merck, I think jarmo does what is right for the site, not for money.

With all due respect I have not seen that many people attack Jarmo personally over this.

Well it didn't only happen here but on other forums as well, really just not necessary-

Other forums (for whatever reason) are doing the same thing as Jarmo...............

I have no problem with Jarmo, I've been visiting this site ever since Juan 2000 intention's message board fell apart years ago, and IMO he's never done anything to deserve harsh treatment, at least to my knowlodge.

He's put together the best Gn'R website on the web, with a great forum. ?If Gn'R managment told him to delete the RS articles, then believe me, we're all better off that he does! ?He's one of the few reliable sources in the Gn'R community, and if he betrays Gn'R, then we're all cut off too.

I do however think that this forum is run too tightly sometimes. ?Every thread doesn't need to be deleated. ?Just because there's a 7 month old thread with 1,209 replies in it doesn't mean we can't ask the question now. ?I agree that you have to delete a lot of the stupid questions and threads because there are so many users around here, but a lot of the threads are deleted for no good reason it seems... *sigh*

But then again, this is Jermo's place, and it's his rules. ?If he wants to run the forum this way, and he's sucuessful at it, then what's the use in complaining? ?That doesn't mean he shouldn't listen to the posters though. ?It should be a compermise...

Pay attention, it says "Ads by Google".

Like others, I think it's really weird all the posts that are being deleted around here, but that's no reason to attack anyone, including Jarmo and mygnrforum.com.

read the thread i linked to.  he clearly says its possible to take those ads out.  you think because they are run by google that its google making all the money from them?  he just puts them there because they look nice?  :o

Had I been home earlier from and been online I woulda figured it out, and I didnt see this thread till now, but I have no quams about the post beng deleted. At first I was like huh, what, but I dont jump to conclusions, I read out more and now I got my answer, and I have no reason to bitch at nayone, if anything, we all should be happy aobut the news. And the wait is most surely comin to that final place we all want to be at, the storew they day CD comes out!

And with all due repect, aside from some other mentioned boards, there are many cool boards, this one probably the first one I came to in 2000 to read, actually decided to sign up right after 2002 MSG show. BUt GNR2006, runs a great site, and so do others, its really fucknig stupid, for people to start blaming any mods or admins, if this is the band and management wish!

My point is that you can't tell what ads Google will put there in advance. It's possible to block, yes, but until we have proof that mygnrforum.com intentionally left these ads unblocked even after learning about them let's not throw these accusations.

Google puts ads there that relate to what the site is about. 

This site has none and also doesn't take money from members for support either.  If you have people sending money in what is the use of the ads except to make more money?

I agree though that there are many good sites, I don't just visit this one, I read thenewguns, mygnr, cd, gnrunleashed....as well as a few others-

But this thread is about Jarmo and easing up on him, I mean the member count is only going to go up, especially in the next few months so I can only imagine what he will have on his hands then to deal with-
 :peace:

And for as many people attacking jarmo over it, we've seen people backing him up.

But you know how it goes. People will take any chance they can to bash certain forums. It's lame, particularly when admins over at MyGNR have defended jarmo for his actions over this and ask that people not bash him. ::)

Like I said, I'm not saying people should be dragged out into the street and shot for the Ads. I'm just bringing them up. I'm not bashing mygnr, because I'm not telling them off, I'm merely saying something that's true. And asking what people think about it.

Mygnr is a great forum, so is CD.com.

I just made this post because I was upset @ a lot of the posts here last night. Some of you might be reading this today, and say well there isn't many people bashing Jarmo, but there sure was ton of them last night. I have no problem with Mygnr - I'm a big Madison fan. And on the other end, BP is one of the reasons and inspirations for my own forum. I was merely asking a question to those people who were here last night. I didn't mean any disrespect to anyone who runs those forums, because they do what they have to do. I meant disrespect to those who were here last night bashing Jarmo for the fact that they care about one thing but seemingly not another.

I do have proof, as Jim Bob posted about and pm'ed Eric and both were ignored / deleted.

All you have to do is type Guns N' Roses presale password into google, and block the same sites that come up via the Ads on the right side of search. Takes about 5 minutes.

I'm not "throwing accusations" either - I'm just asking why the regular forum posters who were bashing Jarmo don't have a problem with other forums having Ads for presale passwords.

If you guys want to just jump down my throat and say I'm bashing other forums, there is nothing I can do. But I hope you realize my point of bringing that up was not for the sake of bashing them, but for pointing out how much different Jarmo is from everyone else.

I think it's wrong that other websites are selling presale passwords, and think that they should be cut off.  But I also think Jarmo is wrong for complying with management in this case.  I don't care about getting the odd press release a few hours before everyone else... and I don't care about presales, because it's not like good tickets for the shows haven't been difficult to find elsewhere.  What I care about is getting up-to-date Guns N' Roses news from an unofficial and unbiased source.  When there's a feature in a magazine and on a website, it's only right that people should be allowed to talk about it, and honestly if Merck didn't want people to see the thing, he shouldn't have contributed to it in the first place.
Too much has been sacrificed for far too little... I believe the main reason people started coming here is because for a long time Here Today... Gone To Hell was that up-to-date, unofficial, unbiased site.  Now though, Merck says "jump", jarmo says "how high?".  Even a Velvet Revolver forum has become much more reliable for GN'R news than this one, because of the deletion of valid threads.

THE ADS ARE BY GOOGLE AND THEY ARE RELATED TO THE WEBSITE'S CONTENT.  ON THE CD.COM THERE ARE NO PRESALE PASSWORDS ADS. THE GNR MANAGEMENT IS AWARE ABOUT THE ADS ON THE WEBSITE CAUSE BP ASKED MANAGEMENT'S PERIMISSION TO RUN ADS ON THAT.

Don't you post at that Slash forum?

As far as I remember, they also had certain topics that aren't allowed to be discussed.

If you wanna discuss GN'R's recent events with a bunch of Scott Weiland fans, go ahead.


I'm sure there'll be discussions about all those topics once everything is ready and set in stone, instead of when RS publishes their stories.




/jarmo

Do you know if we will be allowed to discuss it tomorrow?  That is when the mag is officially distributed from what I understand. 

This admin section is gonna be hoppin until the discussions are allowed :hihi: 

The GNR world just gets more and more interesting doesn't it?  You think you've seen it all, then something else happens. 

On topic...I also think that Jarmo has been put in a hard place, and I don't agree with people bashing because of a request he received from management.  Kinda fits under the "don't kill the messenger" category in my opinion

;D

I can think of nothing that isn't allowed to be discussed on the Slash board.  Especially not articles.
And the Scott Weiland fans tend to keep out of the GN'R section of the VR board. ;)

I'm not so sure about that, but whatever.




/jarmo

Last week, I showed a bunch of people including Jarmo the presale ads on cd.com, so your just basically just pointing out that BP has taken the presale password ads off now? Cuz they definitely were running up until last night.

There is really no need to get defensive either. You are part of a great site, and like I said in an earlier post, I would certainly believe it if BP told me he just made an oversight and didn't realize presale password Ads were running. But you can't sit here and tell me they weren't running - my entire admin/mod staff saw them, Jarmo saw them, etc...

I completely support Jarmo's right to do whatever he wants with his forum. It's his - if you don't want someone in your house, you have the right to ask them to leave and that doesn't make you a nazi or whatever(again, people using that word in a casual way obviously know nothing about WW II era German history, but whatever)- this is no different. Actually, he should be thanked for making this a generally cool place to hang out online. My only question about the RS article is why there isn't a sticky or something clarifying where he's at, since people who haven't been on the board in a few days might not understand the current situation.

so you're saying that rolling stone is printing a bunch of lies?

or is it just that they put the article out earlier than merck wanted......

either way if management didn't want that information being out they shouldn't have commented to rolling stone about it.

takes about 5 minutes to do it, takes weeks until the sites are really blocked. block them and they'll come back with 3 other addresses to promote through. it's actually called "competitive ad filter", and was not really made so that you can block ANY ad you don't want to be displayed in your site. 

if you want to be a finger-shaking moralizer, maybe point at Google first (how can people sign up with sites where you can buy presale passwords?), rather than at a guy who has implemented the ads to be able to pay the running costs of the site and forum, and lately moved to a completely different country and has other things to bother his head about than getting rid of an ad that went unnoticed to him and hardly aroused anyone else's interest.


Jarmo is a good man btw.

Cuz yeah, the media has never printed lies or misquoted GNR before..... GITR!

I'm not saying anything, I'm only guessing.

But I think there's a good reason why I was asked to remove it.





/jarmo

You think.
When you're asked to do something, don't you think to ask why?  After all, as you pointed out, it was a request and not an order.

Yes, I'm going to attack google. That will accomplish something. Either way, the Ads are mysteriously off CD.com in ONE DAY after this post. Jarmo saw them yesterday, as did many people. Thought it took weeks before they were removed....

I don't want to argue about this in this thread though - the ads are now removed and I applaud BP and the cd.com staff for doing the right thing. In retrospect, I should have contacted BP personally and pointed it out to him right when I noticed. That is my mistake and I take full responsibilty for it. The point of this thread was not to bash anyone, but to ask why people have a problem with one thing and not another?

Look whatevers happening we will find out soon so peace have some patience, Jarmo was asked to remove it he did end of discussion really. See what tomorrow brings.

I guess I'm not very good at getting my point across, because this thread was meant to strike back at the people who were attacking Jarmo, and it seems I've only offended people like Sladdi and BP who I have respect for. So I apologize for that. I should have given cd.com the benefit of the doubt, as they've never done anything at all disrespectful to the community before.

Yes, you have a problem with that?


If you think they'd ask me to remove something just for fun, then I think you're wrong.


/jarmo

i didn't see the ads.

and i'd be very surprised if Sean (BP) saw this thread, saw the specific ads (especially when he is in Greece and those ads would probably only show in the United States) and would have the possibility and the time to make changes "on the fly".

I do have a problem with it when you're going around deleting threads and not even knowing the reason why, yes.
They probably do have a reason for it... but it seems like it's more for their benefit than ours.

That's why I apologized for not telling BP personally about the Ads running. I should have given him the benefit of the doubt.

Mygnr is another story....

But again, this is not the point of my thread. My point is that how come it's ok for certain forums to do one thing, and then everyone bashes Jarmo just for listening to management? and like blueheart said herself: BP asked management about putting Ads on his site, so essentially, he's listening to management. So BP listens to management, and presale password ads run on his site, and nothing gets said. Jarmo listens to management, and he's a censoring nazi.

That's my point. I meant nothing against BP personally. He is a great guy whose been great to me over the years.

If anyone wants to discuss the Advertising thing with me, please use a PM. I should have used a different example when I was trying to stick up for Jarmo, so that my point wouldn't have been totally lost on people.

Usually it is because, they dont think before or after, they make assumptions, without really knowing, its a human flaw, what can be done, I dunno. BUt , so far what is on the table, in this discussion is , people are throwng back and forth accusations, askng , why didnt you sak, why this why that, blah blah blah!!, Bottom line is communication. And IF this is the community I belive in, "speaking for many". Why is it people want to shut out others? Is it the politics of it, the inside info, .anyone, sorry GNR 2006, in my heart you rock, shame thigs went sour, not that it really matters, cause, ya know I never held anomosity.


As far as add banners, and stuff. I tend to think that they were not intentionally placed there, hell when I did my space, and I hard use it, I see a banner, for out .com. Could it be because I identified myself as gay, could it be I had no control. Do I really give a fuck!. Not really.

Bottom line is, instead of nick picking each other, and the same community we all enjoy. Let the the damn bikering stop. And When the music comes, if only for the moment, let everyone enjoy , and listen... and enjoy.

yeah I know Im stupid!

Maybe he doesn't need to ask, maybe he knew what to do in this particular situation, get it ?

If the band's management or whoever connected with the band makes such a request, you don't need to know why. And they don't have to make it an order because they know that Jarmo isn't the one who's going to spread fucking bullshit everywhere. So it's logical to react like he does.

I prefer not knowing why this or that happened because I don't give a shit.

I know this : When it's (whatever news, update, etc.) going to be on HTGTH, then I'll know that I can take it for what it's worth (meaning serious shit).

I'm not going anywhere else to get GN'R infos because the other boards ... well, I don't like 'em.

And before anybody says it, I'm no ass-kisser. I'm not taking the bullshit I read sometimes here from some posters.

In response to the recent request not to post the new RS article on the board, I have read alot of negative posts along the lines of its stupid we cant post it, we cant talk about anything anymore, this site bows down to management requests .... all posts along those lines.  Basically if management doesn't want  it discussed on this board, Im sure there is a good reason for it.  We should doubt not the decision process and the way this site operates, and its because this site is presesnt with a professional manner, we benefit from management with presales. I know I was one of many to benefit from the original pre-pre sale for the 15th at Hammerstein, any Im sure many other benefitted from teh LV and SF presales.  This is the best GNR fan site, and could take it a step further and say its the best GNR site period.  So if management doesn't want the articles posted and discussed lets leave it at that, and Im sure we'll continued to be rewarded.

I think management should run pre-sales through the official GN'R fan club and let the unofficial GN'R fan sites discuss everything related to the band.

You nailed it!  There is good reason they don't want this discussed right now!  I would look at this as, well, something big is maybe about to break!  There is something significant regarding this Rolling Stone feature, that they want to disseminate to the masses through Rolling Stone.  Or, at least it seems that way?? :smoking:

At this point, I'm assuming there's a good reason behind it. ?We - or at least I - have been treated well here, and I'm appreciative for all the Hammerstein help that HTGTH, Mysteron, etc., have provided - it was very cool, and also very unneccessary. ?Personally, I'm not about to throw daggers, even if I don't get why exactly a GnR specific topic is currently off limits. ?Time will tell, I suppose, but in the meantime, I don't have a problem with it, and trust those with more information that I have at the present time...

Or perhaps a RS-exclusive has been in the pipeline for some time now, and those in and close to the band want to ensure that such a deal is honored, and that news doesn't get out from elsewhere, unsubstantiated rumors or not...

its pretty silly that you can't discuss that article here. i really don't see anything contraversial about it.  its not like people aren't going to discuss it on other boards :P 

i remember when Limp Bizkit released The Unquestionable Truth, Pt. 1 without any promotion or single/video and it bombed....so I hope GNR doesn't take that route

Regardless as to whether or not there's good reason:

You CANNOT censor the Internet.

It's about as possible as censoring real life ("this guy's chin looks like balls - you want me to censor that too?").

Watching people delete chats over a published article in R.S. is just... funny  :hihi:. All it has done is drawn even more attention to an otherwise less-than-noteworthy article (what, we learnt a song title and that Axl has parties?).

Had nothing been done, there wouldn't be half as much discussion as there is now.

I totally agree with you, especially on your last sentence.  That said, I also think there's something to be said for good faith.  This board has been good to the fans, and I'm still working on the assumption that there's a reason behind it, whether it's a reason I agree with or not.  At this point, it's not worth me getting all worked up over.   I will, however, be checking out that full article tomorrow...

Well when people haven't got any facts for, oh 13 years or so, when they get somethng that looks like a fact perhaps they might want to talk about it.  But if the powers-that-be here say you can't talk about it, oh well.  It's all public knowledge anyway so what's the big deal?  It's on the internet, it's on your newsstand, it's not like it's a big secret.  What exactly is there to say here?  It'll just be some guessing about whether it's true or not.  Not like anybody ever really knows what is going on.  More rumors, more speculation, blah blah blah.  We're not allowed to mindlessly speculate about what's said in the article so instead we mindlessly speculate about why we're not allowed to mindlessly speculate about the article.  Oy vey.  Either the album will come out.  Or it won't.  And then you can talk about it.

Wait a sec, we can't discuss this now???? How about tomorrow when that issue is released?

The point of this thread from my perspective wasnt to give my opinion on why we cant discuss the topic, but to say if they don't want us to discuss then Im fine with that because the board has been good to us fans.  Can anyone honestly say they werent given the opportunity to benefit from the presale if they followed the rules.  So to me its irrelevant what theyre reason is, but I'll go along with it because the site hasnt let us down.

The stance would be a little more understandable if the thing weren't plastered on the front page of the un-named website. Things like the leak were understandable, but to get your panties in a twist over your band's hardcore fans reading something you provided quotes and approval for makes exactly zero sense.

I would think it would be more important for Merck to try and do the information lockdown routine on the site that is getting millions of hits a day, rather than the one that is getting a few thousand hardcore fans every day. I guess that would make too much sense though.

The pre-sales have been useless pretty much guys. ?It's great that they had them and all, but you can still get good tickets to almost all the shows. ?A pre-sales is really most beneficial when the artist is going to sell out fast (like GNR used to back in the day).

As for this topic. ?Who cares? ?We can bitch all we want, but it won't change a thing.

It sure is strange???  Especially since the article was on the front page of rolling stone magazine website???  I don't know, has anyone speculated that they are trying to get the article pulled before the mag hits the stands???  Real weird.  I still think there must be something exciting, that they want Rolling Stone to get into the mainstream exclusively.

True, but whats the point of having a fan forum where we can't discuss new info? If it was an official forum, then sure. But this is a fan forum, nothing more.

Also it's public knowledge.. on the RS website.

So why are we not allowed to discuss it?

I think we need to cut Jarmo some slack.  When the article was posted he seemed as excited as all of us to get the story...but then someone must have contacted him and asked him to pull the thread.  He decided to honor that request.  We will have to wait to see why.  As for the RS article, it is old news now.  I do not want to read about BAZ telling me about the song....I want to HEAR the song.

it's just silly to ban discussions on something like that article

Some of us wasn't even here when it happened and I was wondering what was all this about.
I don't really understand why we can't discuss it ! Someone please explain it to me !

This is a serious magazine with a little news, nothing big I think so, so WTF ?
 ???

Im never complained about the article. I think its silly we cant discuss it, but so be it. My problem was the way it was handled at first. The thread and news got deleted, all threads and posts on it were deleted, and then when someone made a thread about it in the Admin section Jarmo wouldnt tell us jack shit as to why, nothing.

All we wanted was to know why, simply say "management asked us not to discuss it" would have been fine, but to do that and not tell anyone anything, and post vague posts in that thread is what got everyone pissed.

That was my only problem about it, cant speak for everyone.

well said, my exact problem

At the upcoming shows, we should all hold up signs that say

"Sorry", Axl!

i'm a new member here, but i've been following threads for a long time now.  the people on this board are all really devoted fans, and you can't blame us for being a bit frustrated when stuff is kind of dangled in front of us, only to be taken away again.

Let's pretend Axl got arrested for having child pronaography on his hard drive. ?Would news of this be deleted if management asked that it isn't discussed?

I know...that's pretty extreme. ?I personally don't think that this is a freedom of speech issue. ?This is a private board owned and run by a private party. ?Technically, Jarmo's decision to follow management's request is him expressing his freedom of speech. ?However, it would have been nice (in my humble opinion) to get a bit more of an explanation. ?Something along the lines of "management asked me to remove all posts regarding this subject, but for a good reason that we'll all be happy about soon". ?The fact that there is NOT some cryptic message in Jarmo's note to us all leds me to believe that all is not good in the GNR caamp and that this is bad news.

Regardless, I've spent more time over on that shitty "other board" in the last 24 hours than I ever have before.


D
 

I'm not a member of that "shitty 'other board" as you put it, and i hope i won't have to be. I guess i have faith in the fact that all will be explained soon.

Hmm I just thought of something. Hasn't Merck said a couple of times that when there is a big announcement to make or there is big news, EVERYONE will know about it at the same time? Maybe he's trying to keep us from seeing something because he doesn't want us to get a jump on it. Rather he wants the whole world to know at once, not just the hardcore fans. Just a thought.

maybe a big massive world press release on the same day. Who knows, it could be tomorrow, or every other day between now and late December for that matter.

No one discuss the BIG PINK ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM...
NO DON'T TALK ABOUT THE ARTICLE...what article...who? huh?  what  :hihi:

Again, if it weren't the front page of a site getting millions of hits a day that might make sense. It is not a leak though, as it has Merck quotes in it. There is no good explanation for why he tells Jarmo to shield his board members when RS gets however many million visitors daily.

Maybe it's a suprise  :hihi:

I think this is the first time I see HTGTH hiding news (a finger tryin to hide the sun)... not gossip... a serious magazine article.

Is GNR and HTGTH banning RS ?
this whole thing is very strange, but exciting !  :hihi:

The problem isn't that they don't want us to talk about it, the problem is that they are trying to deny people the human right to free speech. If Merck doesn't want people to talk about his statements, then don't fucking make them. If he has a problem with an article being false or misleading, then approach the source instead of trying to stifle the public (the fans). I'll fucking challenge anyone who'd like to take a swing at my rights. I am an adult who can discuss whatever I very well feel like as long as it's not in a derogatory and/or threatening manner. I don't care if there's a "good reason" why the article shouldn't be discussed, it still does not give anyone the right to say I am not allowed to talk about something I read in a published article. And if HTGTH decides to comply with these ludicrous demands and impose such an insult onto its community, then count me out.

Chinese Democracy, indeed.

It is Jarmo's forum, and if he feels he needs to not display this stuff at this point in time, then it's his decision and right.

this is the best site for anything guns n roses even better than the gunsnroses.com.  Were lucky to have it cheers!

Great forum, professionally run, give and take situation with management, Jarmo is in a tough spot at times but the benifits seem to be worth it, at least for now.  This is all true but it's not Gn'R related. so consitency is key. A thread can't stay here simply because it's dedicated to cutting Jarmo slack. No offence Jarmo. It's just that too many relevant threads have been deleted for reasons unknown, yet obviously reasons none the less. This belongs in the Admin feedback section. :peace:

This guy always tells it like it is... If I didnt know better, i'd say you're the real Bono!  :rofl:

Perhaps there is something in the article that doesn't apply to HTGTH board members?   ???

The article reported supposedly album ( rumor )drop date, suppose merck didnt want it posted because of that ?



this board is very nice , buy why would a mangaer to Axl Rose tell jarmo to do something every five minutes ? Is this board payed for by Merck in some way , perhaps, but deleting a thread every five minutes , would only get people curisosity even higher.Like if mom told me not to smoke or drink beer so many times and I did just to volt against her.

No. ?You are 100% wrong on this. ?Jarmo is NOT denying you your right to free speech. ?Don't fall for that old trick. ?This is like a few years ago when the little tubby bitch from The Dixie Chicks started babbling on about how she hates Bush (or something) and country stations stopped playing their music. ?They started bitching that those stations were denying their free speech. ?Well, in that case (and in this case) that could'nt be further from the truth. ?The term "freedom of speech" refers to a government denying anyone the RIGHT to say what they want. ?Nowhere does it refer to a government giving a forum for that particular right to be practiced. ?This is Jarmo's board and he is exercising his right to free speech by posting whatever the hell he wants on here, and denying whoever the hell or whatever the hell he wants to be posted...for whatever reason he wants. ?If you were to force Jarmo to let you say whatever you wanted about this RS article or whatever, then in reality YOU would be denying HIM his right to free speech. ?You, me, or anyone can say whatever you want about this article. ?You just need to find a place to say it. ?It isn't up to anyone else to provide that to you just because you have something to say.

Maybe there is a code in the internet article that we could bust, some1 get on it.

I'm not defendig Jarmo, nor do I wish to critisise him. But I would like the opportunity to question his and managements actions. The issue isn't really that we can't discuss the news, because we can, we just have to be more creative about it or go to any given GN'R site and do it there. I believe the real issue is the fact that most of us don't see any reason for the actions that are being taken. At first sight I doesn't make any sense at all, 'cause obviously when RS post it on their website the ball is pretty much out in the open. But you don't have action without reason, so what is really happening here? I figure we got three probable options:

- The article came out too soon and they're trying to limit the exposure. This one seems irrational to me considering it's available on every other site and the biggest music magazine in the world. But then again, GN'R have proven in the past to be irrational, borderlining on the ridiculos.

- The information in the article is false, or partially false. The album isn't ready yet or the suggested timeline has changed. Limiting the exposure also limits the backlash. This could very well be the case. It's not like this sort of thing hasn't happened before, if you know what I mean.....

- They are acting in an irrational behaviour to keep people guessing and create additional buzz. Being that this is the biggest board out there that is a very effective strategy. Like someone said earlier, by not allowing us to discuss it makes us discuss it exponetionally more. This is the explanation I like to believe, but the question is: Are GN'R and management savy enough to consciously take this route? Well, that is up to each and everyone to decide.

On an end note. Getting to know GN'R through the years, and how they act, my logic actually find it hard to believe that any of the above is the actual case. Either GN'R are too dumb or too smart to go for any of them. So perhaps there is a fourth case scenario. Feel free to speculate.

I also wonder if it all wasn't deleted just to rile us up...but either way, what does either party have to gain?

He deletes it, we just go to the other forum.

He deletes it to rile us up, and he has to put up with 65 threads about the same thing and we, like usual, get nothing.

Oh, the games people play. ?:'(

My speculation leads me to think that this is bad news for the album AND the tour.  This sucks, because this will be my 5th GNR show and the 1st time I'll be on the floor (with general admission, no less).

i have a question was what we saw on rolling stone web page the entire article or just a portion of it ? anyone know?

It looked to me like the whole article.  It's been a while since I read that piece of crap rag, but they have a section called "Rock & Roll" where they sum up current events in the world of music.  It's usually the only thing worth reading in the whole magazine, meaning every issue could easily be only 3 pages long and still have the same value.

The Internet cannot be censored, but certain websites can be.  That being said, it is easy to find the forbidden information elsewhere.  We let a simple issue of not allowing a particular link and scan on the forums to blow up into a free speech argument or an us vs. the man fight.

If Jarmo has a reason for deleting all the threads that we'd agree with, that's cool.  If he doesn't, it's his forum and I don't know why we're making such a big fuss of it.  I understand that in part it is our forum also because a forum is made up of its members.  Nevertheless, as Jarmo respects the wishes of management even perhaps against his personal choices, so we also should respect Jarmo's actions even if they are not in line with our own beliefs, and not attack him or belittle the forum itself.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but every now and then everyone in the world needs to exercise some restraint.

o ok thanks danny

So is this new reading material coming out tomorrow everywhere?  Where should i find i live in Iowa.  Borders of something?




Thanks,
Hatts

Not the whole article.  It hits news stands tomorrow.

The lack of any authentic response to this nonsense leaves me with the unfortnate impression that I'm staring right into the face of option #2.  If the record isn't released this year, Merck can always contend that he was misquoted, that he attempted to have the article pulled, or that the integrity of the journalist is questionable...Once again, GNR and their obsessive need to control information without revealing a thing on their end creates built-in excuses. 

I do wish we knew more....

Well said. ?And to reiterate my earlier comment, this is NOT a free speech issue. ?It just isn't.

That said, I again think that this whole thing is bad news and the fact that Jarmo didn't let us know that management wanted this pulled for a reason we would be happy with later means that has indeed been done for a reason that's going to upset us in the long run (aka...at the end of the year).

Very eloquent and classy post

Precisely...I haven't seen one post that says "It'll be worth the wait, we assure you." Anything along those lines would go a long way in eliminating a great deal of our worst-case scenario fears here..The mere fact that I see nothing of the sort is a bit unnerving.

We really need to set up some shady off-shore betting pool for stuff like this.

I agree 100% oneway23. In my opinion there is no possible circumstance where pulling the article from the lead Gn'R forum can be a good thing. If the article is filled with true information it dimminishes the integrity of this forum even if it's only to a small extent when every other forum out there is  reporting it and if the information is false than we all know what that can mean. Pulling the article does no good whatsoever. Jarmo did what he did and maybe even he disagrees with it. We can't change what's been done. And yes oneway23 I agree with you that it does open up the posibility of having yet again these seemingly built in excuses. :(

Chinese Democracy indeed.

What are the reasons? Did I miss a thread where Jarmo explains the censors?

Shit, I thought GnR' were about the opposite.

It could be as simple as they agreed not to discuss/advance the article until it drops to the general public.  Nothing more.

 :yes:

Anybody else notice the new album page on this site, states the song mentioned in the article that we cannot discuss, just thought that was kinda weird ?:smoking:

I am not sure about what exactly you are talking about. When ads like that are on cd.com BP blocks them. If you are talking about something that happened the last days I am sure that he didn't see it to block it. He doesn't want ads like these on his website. I am sorry if we dissapointed you but unfortunately we don't have internet access at home the last days and he cannot filter all the google ads. Anyway the ads on cd.com will be totally removed pretty soon.

gnr2006 could have contacted me as he said.. or contacted sladdi.   anyway I never seen the ad's and yes I am in another country to where they most likely will not show for me.  and I didn't have internet in many days....

and yes I have had many other things to do lately far more important than a random ad that google picks.

sladdi is correct on all accounts of ad blocking for google - sometimes it can be a day, sometimes more, sometimes the ad's find new URL's to trick the system. but we block ad's that are inappropiate all the time with much success.

ok you seen it...  and you say jarmo seen it...   and whoever else ...  but us webmasters with an ounce of e-knowledge know that it wasn't intentional.

-BP

Jarmo doesn't deserve to be attacked but people have the right to criticize him over this issue. I can understand that he doesn't want to offend Merck and doesn't want to hurt ?his relationship with him, but there is something incredibly wrong when GNR fans can't discuss GNR news from a major publication on a GNR fan site. What harm is going to be done by discussing the article? If there is some misinformation in the article Merck can just clear it up instead of trying to control what we can discuss. If the article mentioned something that wasn't supposed to be, that's too bad, but its out there now. There is no use in pretending it doesn't exist. Besides, it's not like it will hurt the band. CD sales aren't going to be harmed because Sebastian did some blabbing or because the release date may have been leaked out.

It's flat out insulting to our intelligence that Merck thinks he can control our thoughts and discussions ?and I'm disappointed that Jarmo is letting him do so.

Imo that's the very reason why it is fucking dumb from managment's part to bother to react so violently  to minor stuff like articles or ads leaking a couple of days before they should.
What actually leaked, why it happened and why it should not happen til few days later...any of that doesn't even matter here.  Only thing that really matters is..this is internet.
Information an adequate amount of people find interesting slips in the net and some overly eager managment-asshole guy just can't "make it go away". He/she only comes off as overly meddling asshole acting disrespectfully towards fans of the band he represents.Nothing more is achieved; it takes a grand total of 10 mins from someone to notice there is a fuzz about something "big", get curious, snoop around long enough to figure how to google it and then proceed to  read all about it.
It was fucking unfair from their part to start contacting fan site webmasters about it.Webmasters are the ones that have to get their hands dirty and blow  the idiotic "you can't talk about this people!"- whistle.It can't feel good, or that sane to run around your own forum telling people there are news they are not allowed to talk about.My best guess is it feels incredibly fucking dumb.Well atleast I truly hope it does:)

But what would you, or jesus do?Someone from managment of the band you run website of asks you to do something..do you really wanna say "no"?^^

Exactly - I don't blame Jarmo..I just think its odd that Merck is reacting the way he is to it. I mean, ok, yeah - all the promo was supposed to start at around the same time and blow our minds - great, but I think our minds were blown already. Merck is playing hardball, and as I said, I'm almost positive that by Jarmo cooperating that it'll work out for all of us in the long run. There's a reason why HTGTH is the best GN'R forum on the net.  : ok:

Oh yeah. :-\