Here Today... Gone To Hell!

i know most of you will say slash, blah,blah blah, BUT i think Izzy was the most important member in Guns besides Axl.
what do you all think?

agree!!!

i'd say Izzy too, but i know we are a minority here.
Izzy is not just a guitar player but also a great songwriter.

I think, we don't know enough of the inner dynamics of the band.

If Slash really did come up with all those great guitar licks and solos, then he'd definitely be ahead of Izzy on my list. Slash's intro to SCOM is probably more well-known in the music world than even Axl's signature voice.

What a question.  Of course it's Slash.

it was on izzy's ideas that slash and axl were able to project themselves.....duff and steven helped to make inmortal.

Pitman

Pitman left???? :o

Yeah, he left multiple times, thats why CD is taking so long... no pitman, no album.

Damn, if that's true, I'm torn... I mean, I would like to see an album eventually, but no pitman... sounds sooo tempting...

Its a ridiculous debate.. whose more important .. Izzy or slash... Slash single handled invented 90% of the solos and riffs which defined GnR. Jeez, people only say Izzy is better than slash to try and sound cool.. like they know something we all dont.

Compare Izzys solo stuff to slashs... Nuff said!!!

Izzy helped write some great stuff for GN'R, but I agree about Slash creating so many memorable riffs and solos. Like I said before, the intro to SCOM is more recognizable amongst the general music audience than Axl's voice (and that IS saying something because Axl has a very distinctive voice).

guitar players are a dime a dozen compaired to good song writters like izzy.

OK, I'm really tired from staying up too late. But I think I'm still coherent enough to recognize an idiotic statement when I see one. The above quote certainly qualifies as an idiotic statement. Slash a "dime a dozen" guitar player? ROFLMFAO!

you don't think guns  could cut without slash? well i think they could of had mick mars on guitar and still of sold the same amount of albums, thats just my opion though.

mick mars interesting......izzy was to gnr what nikki sixx to the crue..

yeap i agree.

Wow, just wow. As I said before, go play the opening guitar licks of both SCOM and WTTJ for general music fans and they'll recognize those guitar licks more than they would a sample of Axl's voice. Axl is what made the band DANGEROUS. Slash was the leader in terms of musicianship and whether you like it or not, he came up with some of the best riffs in rock history. It's not as easy as you're making it out to be. To diminish Slash's guitar playing would be the same as attempting to diminish Page's guitar playing for Zeppelin. At least on AFD, Slash's guitar playing is just as important as anything else on the album. Axl had great, grandiose ideas for November Rain and Estranged, for example, without Slash's input. But I think Slash's input definitely had a positive impact on both those songs (the most memorable thing about Estranged is the main riff, and the solo of NR is very memorable as well).

Izzy Stradlin, without a second fucking thought.

Without Axl Rose & Izzy Stradlin, Guns N' Roses would not exist. For all of the 'hired Guns', someone had to be there to write the classics both lyrically & instrumentally.

Izzy was certainly important. He had a big part in writing the songs we all love. Slash also had his hand in those very same songs. Slash however also was singlehandedly responsible for comming up with all those amazing riffs and hooks that made Appetite that album that it now is. Think about the songs that defined GNR in the earlier stages: WTTJ, PC, SCOM, ... they all thrive on those riffs. Without those, the music wouldn't have had half the impact they've had now. Take "Don't Cry", a signature Izzy song, for instance: take away Slash's parts and Axl's singing and your left with a mediocre run of the mill "Three Doors Down"-style pop/rock ballad. A lot of GNR's music is structurally very straight forward, nothing fancy at all. Textbook chords changes and extremely straight-forward arpeggios, that's what Izzy brought to the table. What made GNR's sound specials were Axl's voice and Slash's guitar playing.

Put Mick Mars where Slash was, and GNR wouldve been nothing. GNR became what they once were in the late 80's, early 90's because of Slash's riffs interlaced with Axl's vocals and a solid base of decent songwriting, nothing more, nothing less. GNR had 2 genuises in their ranks back then, 2 geniuses who aren't half the men they used to be now that they've gone their own way. Neither VR, nor nu-GNR can claim to be more than a shadow of what once was rocks greatest triumph. And they both know it.

Well that's what I've done, and I go for Izzy. Because of the lyrics, either solo or for GN'R.


I don't think so ... I'm sure people can immitate Slash's playing, so that people would have a hard time telling the differences, but try to mimic Axl's voice ...

Slash without a doubt. izzy never wanted GNR when they became a huge act. izzys songs needed the tuch of axl n slash to become what they are and not vice versa. if you watched GNR live you cant take your eyes of Axl n Slash, Izzy on the other hand...well he looked like he was married to the same spot.   

there's no such thing as the most important person in gnr. they wrote the songs together. if one of them was missing we wouldn't have these songs now.
and their solo work proves that only together they wrote the greatest songs. not to say they don't write good stuff solo but none of those albums had the success gnr had.

Axl, Izzy and Slash in my opinion were equally important. 

yes. I think the same

I say

1 . AXL....GREAT SINGER....The best singer ever...But if antoher singer had been around from the start we would had been honoring his voice instead..BUT..Axl wrote the best lyrics and that?s way he is the absolute best...Nobody but Axl...No Axl - No GNR

2. Izzy - He can write riffs and lyrics..Slash can?t...

3. Slash - He was bored on the Illusion - sessions..Axl was naggin on him to be apart of his songs..Slash came by..And wrote The Estranged riff..just like that....ETC (!!!) That?s a true guitar - hero..And then it?s sweet child of mine...

4. Duff - It?s so easy, Paradies city, so fine...Up the Duff !

5. Steven - There is always alot of copies..but only ONE original...Sure he didn?t write..Any lyrics..Exept I used to love her..and i think if he was sober he had been apart of a couple of songs..Or maybe not..But to quote Izzy " Stevens drumming was the thing who gave thoose songs their feel, afterwards, nothing worked "

Now i?m flippin coins..

6. Dizzy
7. Matt
8. Gilby

Roberta Freeman or Tracey Amos.
I really loved Fred Coury too  ::)

Axl, Izzy and Slash equally.  No doubt.

Izzy easily :yes:



and TheMole pitman has never left, that guy is just joking

i like to the think the orignal band was the best, take away any of the orignal band, they would have never got to were they got to.

Hehehe, I know, I was just playin' along... :)

I disagree. Sure Slash deserves credit for some things, but most everything instrumentally, was also the brainchild of Axl. He just used his idea for the sound, and incorporated it by getting Slash to get it to where they both liked it.

Slash gets so much credit for the solos in NR & Estranged, yet it was Axl that came up with the sound, and Slash simply played them. He practically had to put a gun to his head to get him to do it. He hated those songs.

Well, I wasn't really talking about NR & Estranged, since these are obviously Axl-branded power ballads, and we all know a typical Slash ballad is less bombastic then these (thinking about Beggers and Hangers On, Fall To Pieces, Back And Forth Again). I'm talking about like 90% of Appetite, where you can obviously see classic Slash influence in most of the songs. I mean, it's a widely known fact that WTTJ's riff was first heard by Axl when Slash played it for him in it's entirety and Axl had a melody and lyrics to go with it. The SCOM story is so old I'm not even gonna regurgitate that here. These are prime and known examples, but if you think about the fact that the only two songs where Slash did not have a hand in writing are "Think About You (Izzy: music and lyrics)" and "Anything Goes (Izzy & Weber: music, Izzy & Axl: lyrics)", and these are commonly regarded as the album's only filler material (you don't have to agree), I think you will put things into perspective.

Don't diminish Slash's input, he was more important than most people even realise.

its not a rediculous debate. If you look at the songwriting credits on HTGTH, you'll see Izzy wrote more songs than anybody else, including many more than Slash.

They all played a part in this, it is all of their talents that made up this awesome band, it was each of their individual styles and abilities that were put together to make them GNR, We as individuals just may be drawn to one for his talents more so than another, I myself love them all!!!! :peace:

Actually he was less important than most people realize.

Your statement is very well grounded, indeed.

It just depends on what side of the glass you're looking on to interpret how it went down.

But to say he was more important than most realize, is false in was it represents. Anybody that knows anything about the legacy of this band in the 21st century, knows that's the biggest thing on the new guy's shoulders is trying to get that Slash weight off of their backs, because he was so definitive, he was so recognizable, and he was so liked. He represented Guns N' Roses in their prime, just as much as Axl as far as the spotlight goes.

As far as image goes, and image only, it truely is like trying to do the Stones without Keith, or Zeppelin without Jimmy, or Queen without Brian.

But that's the problem for the current incarnation of GNR now. Too many think Slash's input was the reason they were good, which is not the case at all. If anything, the comment should be reversed....

I don't understand this "more" important crap. They were all equally important. If any one of the AFD era GN'R members weren't in the original line up, AFD would not have sounded the same. This is the same kind of BS attitude that fucked up the band. Instead of dividing money equally among themselves, they tried to base it on a dumb percentage calculation. GN'R should have taken a cue from bands like Aerosmith. Split the money five ways.

Now that I agree with.


I can see we aren't going to agree on this any time soon :). There's just one thing I'ld like to know before we let this rest... In which way do you think Slash is overrated, what made you form that image of him. I mean, is it a knee-jerk reaction to his popularity, do you dislike his sound, do you think his image is wrong? I'm just curious, as I have yet to meet in person a hard rock 'n roll lover who thinks Slash is overrated by his peers, so I'm eager to learn you reasons.

Izzy hands down. I think he was the support that axl needed at the time.

His ability. Slash always sounded to the same to me. His guitar licks for my ears never diversified and changed and became unique for songs. They sounded similar to each song, ala Angus Young in AC/DC, which for me shows average ability. To me at least.

Plus in Guns heyday, I was a singer surrounded by guitarists. All the guitar people just loved Slash, and the fans loved Slash, and I was never a 'go with the crowd' person. So I rooted for Axl and supported him, because I was a singer.

It just depends on what you did as a teen in GNR's heyday. Singers were Axl fans, guitarists were Slash fans.

The easiness of the riff is NOT what I'm talking about. The familiarity of it IS. It is a more familiar sound to most general music fans than Axl's voice. That has zilch to do with ability to play it. And besides, some of the best riffs ever are really simple. It's not the simplicity, but rather the CREATIVITY to come up with that particular sound. Slash is the one who did it, so no matter how well someone can copy it, people still would recognize the riff and think "SLASH!" or at the very least "Guns N' Roses!" I'm not so sure Axl's very distinctive voice would be recognized by anyone other than pretty big fans of rock music.

Izzy or Slash, for sure. One could make a very compelling case for either one to come out on top.

I also think Adler was far more important than people give him credit for - Despite being a total smackhead, his drumming on AFD totally fit the GNR sound.

When Sorum replaced him, the drumming just sounded too "big" and hamfisted, and threw off the vibe in the band considerably, in my opinion.

Fair enough, as you might have guessed, I picked up the guitar because of Slash's playing and GNR's sound. I can see where you're comming from and kinda know the feeling (the anti-'go with the crowd' mentality is one I've made my own for a fair number of times in the past and most likely will do again in the future). In my mind a comparison to Angus is a good thing (although I would definately deem Slash a lot more versatile), but I cannot deny that Angus' playing, and AC/DC's music in general is based on the recurring themes and riffs the Young brothers churn out with the dependability of a swiss clock. Slash definately showcases the same kind of dependability.

In short: I see what you mean, but I can't bring myself to agree.  ;)

I might want to add that I agree with most people here saying the band as a whole was what made all this happen and swapping any member would have vastly changed the sound of the band, and most likely for the worst. I just picked Slash because the OP used the words 'most important' and I do not beleive they were all equal in their input. Essential: yes, equal: no.

Compare Izzys stuff to Slash who defined Snakepit and VR... theres no comarison whatsoever.

Izzy may have been a good song writer but slashs riffs and solos DEFINED gnr. Take a song like Estranged... or the solos on NR... or SCOM for god sake. The guitar work on SCOM is iconic of the band and their genre and its all slash!!!!

Theres always this niche of fans who hold Izzy in higher esteem but the critics and majority of fans dont and rightly so.

Cant believe we are even having this ridiculous discussion!!

From the AFD line up I think all were equally important. The Illusions set I would say Axl and Slash, maybe Duff.I never really liked Matt, Dizzy or Gilby. Have to wait and see with chinese Democracy.  ??? :-\

Izzy.  :)

Izzy, Axl, Slash and less not forget Duff were a vital part of Guns. Without each of these members AFD would not the greatest album of all time.

Without Duff there would be no PC, Slash WTTJ ect.

The truth is as many have pointed out,  that each of teh four members brought something unique to the band. Just listen to Hollywodd Rose that came out a couple of years ago how important each guy was.

I left alder out because Duff worked day and night to get alder to play the way he did on Appetite, something people don't give him credit for.

Duff Mckagen!

The thing with the original line up was that each member had his own distinct personality that showed in everything they did. Now, that is something you don't see in many bands. I think that each contributed what he had but the way I see it, it was Izzy who was the driving force of the band, musically at least ))

i personally think that all of them were just as important as each other. but because izzy wrote and co-wrote alot of the songs that they did, i would have to agree, that izzy proberbly was the next most important person

We totally agree!!! Izzy rocks. that's why this lineup sounded so GN'R on the european leg of the tour. Stradlin added the true, real, pure Guns N' Roses vibe that no one else had.

Slash is a GN'R icon. Even more than Axl.

More than Axl? I don't know about that.

But I do agree that Slash is most important..  :love:

At least Slash is a positive GN'R icon whereas Axl has a rather negative image among non-GN'R fans.

Slash gets more respect than Axl in the business.

C'mon, you can't be serious ...

I'm dead serious.

Slash is seen as the best symbol of Guns N'Roses.

I know that a lot of people and music listeners know who Slash is and what he looked like, but why was he more iconic than Axl Rose ?

Bullshit.

Only Axl Rose could be iconic enough to get MTV to make special arrangements for him and him alone to super-secretly appear at the VMA's, and a private soundcheck at Radio City.

Axl gets this, when MTV have to deal with personalities like P. Diddy, Madonna, J-Lo, Jay-Z, Eminem & Kayne West, all big names with super egos, every single day.

Where was VR? Where was Slash?

Slash is a icon himself. I grant him that. But not more than Axl Rose.

Axl hasn't a Mac Farlane figurine like this.

(http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/4978/mnqq9.jpg)


(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/2638/mn1ou9.jpg)

Toys are N*SYNC.

That's not very political correct now, is it? Watch your back :nervous:

Izzy great songwriter....but Slash wrote the most memorable riffs..so you can take your pick....I will however say that Steven Adler is the most useless member in the history of the band

Ha! This we can agree on! Who would have thought.