Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://www.live4ever.us/newsroom.html

Very interesting I hope to god Chinese Democaracy comes out that day it will give me two all time great albums to buy that day Stop the Clocks and Chinese Democracy! :drool:

Mmm well its cool that they mention it...

I believe that if the date is promoted ALOT and theres a kick ass single that GNR could even beat out Jay Z

EDIT: Better hope Bono doesn't read this thread..  :hihi:

Kidding.. you were against this release right Bono? Isn't it a greatest hits of sorts?

Freaking christ I love U2 but its enough with the hits compilations already, oh GNR will smash Jay-Z if they go to head to head. I know Noel Gallagher would even get Democracy if it came out that day he's influenced by GNR you can hear a little bit in some solos ala Live Forever.

GNR wont smash Jay-Z in the U.S... trust me. Not without promo.

The average 15 year old who walks in the record store Nov 21st will see Chinese Democracy and the Jay-Z album and walk out with Jay-Z. Like I said.. .unless theres promo. If they even have a medium amount of promotion and a single, GNR stands a chance.

Not me, but then again I'm far from average.

its not really a competition between Jay-z and GNR.   I think most GNR fans aren't going to be buying the Jay-z album and vice versa.

Oasis is the only one I think would be competition.  U2 isn't even rock music, GNR isn't going to be something the average U2 fan wants.    And i think most GNR fans dont give a shit about a shitty band like U2 with their self-serving, whiny, crap music.

But GNR blows them all away.  :smoking:

I agree, I like Oasis, hate U2, and absolutely despise Jay-Z, but thats just my opinion. Oasis greatist hits is pretty much just the album '(What's The Story) Morning Glory?' with some bonus tracks, not anything any Oasis fan doesn't have - its only being released to fufill a contract.

Oasis hits collection draws heavily from Definitely Maybe, WTSMG and the b-sides of the Masterplan era if you live in England you probably have all 3 of these records or have been beaten up for not having them. Here in the states I hope it does well some monster tunes on it. Could have used some songs from the Be Here Now era though.

Or could have used a couple of new tracks.  I'm a rare U.S. fan of Oasis (2nd favorite band after GNR), and this will be the only Oasis CD I probably won't ever buy.  I also didn't buy GNR's Greatest Hits for the same reason.  Nothing I don't own already.


It would be pretty sad if CD DID come out that same day and DID'NT beat an Oasis GH album.

Why do you say rare US fan of Oasis? are there not many of us? I guess they never really toured the states on a grand scale though.

My wife and I saw Oasis twice in tha last year and a half.  Both times we travelled quite a bit just to see them...once in Indianapolis and once in Chicago.  Both times alot of people would ask us what concert we were going to and when we said Oasis, nearly everyone said "who's that?".  They're success here never really hit and I think now it's pretty rare to find someone who's even heard of them.

The wife and I are "mad for it" though.  My wife has told me she'd leave me for Noel, and I think Liam kicks a whole lotta ass.

Oasis is the biggest band possibly ever not to be huge in the States. The record company tried to get Noel to release Stop the Clocks on this record as it is rumored to be one of the best tracks he has ever written which is saying a hell of alot. Oasis is now free from Sony and will hopefully sign with a label that actually will promote them properly stateside for the next official release.

Oh wow was that the fateful Indy show in which Noel and some other members were injured in a car accident going to?

To be honest with you, I would be perfectly happy with Oasis not being bigger here. ?The last show we went to in Indianapolis was at a small theater and was possibly the best show I've ever been to. ?That probably would'nt happen if they became a big, arena band here.

No.  That was a few years ago, and that show was cancelled.  Noel told the crowd to drive carefully during this show, though.

Oasis is hardly a blip on the U.S. music scene. Most people don't even remember the band, and a majority of the ones that do consider them a one/two hit wonder from the 90's (Champagne Supernova and Wonderwall)...sure they have a few hardcore fans though. GNR wouldn't have much of a problem outselling them in the states. Jay-Z is another story.

GN'R and Jay-Z will not be released on the same day. At least not if Universal has anything to say about it. Jay-Z's label is part of Universal Music Group, just as Geffen is for GN'R. Why would a company send two of its biggest artists head to head against each other? They wouldn't and they won't.

I think its so sad that jayZ is competition for gnr, how can anyone who actually buys or owns a jayz record show their face in public or even walk donw the street.

Are you trying to tell me that you don't drive around blasting "Hard Knock Life"?  :rofl:

Unfortunately if CD comes out on the 14th it'll be strong for a week and then be completely crushed by Snoop Dogg and Jay-Z, and rock fans will buy Oasis and U2 meaning GN'R will sink!  :-[ Like it or not after a week a lot of people who didn't buy the album will just end up downloading it.

I'm going to buy two copies.  :peace:

As bad as he is, there is even worse garbage in popular music today, namely all the wannabe rappers out there and of course crappy acts like Britney Spears. Mike Jones is one of the only rappers I like nowadays from the new wave of rappers. I do like older rappers like Dr. Dre and Eminem a bit, but the sad fact is garbage like T.I.'s newest song somehow is popular and yet it isn't even catchy at all in my opinion. T.I. had that "24's" song a few years ago and I liked it, but when I saw him play on MTV at the VMA's (while waiting for Axl's appearance of course), there was absolutely nothing catchy about the song he performed.

Jay-Z's new single leaked recently and it's not very catchy in my opinion (nowhere near as cool as "Big Pimpin"). But then again, I can't stand most rap music out there and pop music in general (honestly, the only really popular song that I've liked lately is "Crazy" by Gnarls Barkley). Check out Jay-Z's new song at YouTube if you're curious about Guns N' Roses' competition on the charts here at the end of the year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1HGl0N6KRc

ive said it before, going up against Jay-Z is a bad idea, its his coming out of retirement album....im not kidding i really dont know if GNR can take him without some serious promotion...but even so, rap music is WAYYYYYY bigger than rock music is here in the states, its not that Jay z is better than GNR, but he is definately more popular.....bad idea

oasis is awesome, but a greatest hits cd of theirs will get slaughtered by chinese democracy here in the states....they really arent too popular here in the states, even though they should be cause they are awesome

Well as we've been told the 21st is the wrong Tuesday anyway, I can now see why. With U2, Oasis and Jay Z all that day then GNR as well it'd be tough to win the sales war that week. GNR could sell the most but it's by no means a guarantee. After a week the Oasis and U2 hype will be dieing if they're just GH albums which just leaves Jay Z possibly still as competition, the 28th of Nov or 5th Dec certainly seem better dates if they want CD at number 1.

Oasis is shit!

I hate that fucking band, they're a bunch of wannabe's. They think they're bigger or think they are at least as good as the beatles...yeah right. Noel is a fag and makes pussy music.

Fuck'em!!
I even hate to see oasis being mentioned in a GN'R forum....  :rant:

i think tha main chance of chinese democracy will be people all over the world want to see rock and roll album...
and i'm sure in first two months chinese demcracy will be on the top,

so if jay-z's new single leaked and his album is out nov. 21, does that mean we won't get a single from cd or the album drops after nov. 21 ?

AGREEE : ok: :hihi:

They aren't that bad, but they owe a lot to the stone roses that are a much better band.  But in your "I must listen to hard rock otherwise people might think I'm gay" sexually confused world you will probably think they're "gay" as well.

LP

November 28th or December 5th sound good to me.

jayz will not beat cd. even w/o a promo guns will still sell better then jayz.

Actually, noel has said he thought they sounded a lot more like slade than the beatles.

Whether or not you think Oasis is "shit" or not is irrelevant, it's a matter of what the public will go for.  ::)

Unless GnR management gets everything together, releases a single, gets a video on mtv mtv2 youtube.com etc..., maybe do an SNL or some live television appearance, has round the clock commercials for the album, it will never beat Jay Z. ?Rap albums by major artists today go platinum immediately, especially someone like Jay z, because you know that he will have all of those thin gs that I said that GnR's management would need to have. ?I think rap is worthless, but tons of the american and global cd buyers think its great. ?The thing people dont realize though is that they do in many ways compete against eachother in America. ?Kids today grow up listening to rap and rock, in many ways the messagesare the same and thats why a guy like Axl liked NWA and other rap. ?yes, Jay z is fake and cannot talk let alone rap and yes he has little to no talent, but the guy throws money around and feels up beyonce in videos, thats pretty cool to a 14 year old kid, just like Slash driving a car off a cliff or Axl getting with stephanie seymour was cool back in 92. ?Not saying Jay z is even in the ballpark or same game as GnR in talent, but in salemanship (especially of himself), right now he is far superior.

Oh and no ones going to buy an Oasis greatest hits album.  I like(d) them, but theyre greatest hits has less appeal in America than a Hasselhoff rap album.

Yeah, frankly I'm sick of this "13 Tuesdays left in the year" bullshit. That's a big tease. No other band treats its fans like that. I guess I'm just a bit tired of the "hidden clues" and "round twos" and all that stuff. Just stop trying to be dramatic and give solid information to the people who care: US!

maybe you're right...someone may actually die of heart attack with all this hidden clues :hihi:

Right but I don't give a shit about what is relevant or not. I just told my opinion about that stupid band.? :peace:
And to be relevant, I believe people in general are quite smart enough to go for Guns!  : ok:


wrong. My opinion about that stupid band, has nothing to do with that... I listen to all kind of music, not only hard rock! I admit, Rock N' Roll is in my heart and I love this music far more than anything else, but there are other artists out there which play other type of music (rock, dance, whatever...) that I also like very much. So I don't make judgements about people who don't like (hard) rock.
BUT oasis is gay music? :hihi:

people in other country outside US. much knowin' GNR/Axl/Slash ?than Jayz. even they still not knowin' GN'R still exist and doesn't have a clue what Chinesse Democracy is.

who the fuck is jay z?

Who the fuck cares if Jay-Z beats Guns N' Roses RECORD SALES? Does the music get any better or worse? NO.
I don't know why you people are stressing about how much CD sells.

I'm sorry, but it's Oasis that failed to promote themselves properly in the US.  A US tour was cancelled when Liam Gallagher walked out on it.  In a UK interview afterwards, he said they had no intentions of trying to break the US again because, "I can't be bothered, it's too much work".

that's point

who caresabout some jay z???

More people than who care about Guns N' Roses at the moment... that's the point. :P
I care about how much Chinese Democracy sells, because let's face it - if it's not huge, there's a chance we'll never hear the follow-up albums that are rumoured.

But it's not us who will be stressing about whether or not it outdoes Jay-Z.... it's the record label.  The record label won't release it at the same time as a huge artist like Jay-Z, because it'll hinder their chances of it getting the number one spot.  Record labels everywhere make sure their major releases are released at a time when it has most chance of getting to the number one spot.  Then they can market it as "the number one album"... and the fickle people who make up the majority of record buyers will say "if it got to number one, it must be good", and they'll buy a copy. ;)

So there's your answer... we're not stressing.  They are.

who cares about jay z in the world of rnr?

jay z doenst have a street team like gnr does, now does it  :rofl:

I really dont care if GnR beats anyone in sales, but that was the topic of the thread so thought id respond. ?However, while beating Jay z may not matter, what does matter is if the album comes out and sells 500,000 copies in the U.S.. ?That will be a big problem and shorten the U.S. tour, possibly break up the band and stop release on any other album. ?So while the present music does nto change by the sales, the cd will sound the same whether 4 people buy it or 14 million, what does change is the ability to see GNR in concert, the ability to get more music does change. ?So it is an important topic to discuss and it is relevant if another major recording artist releases a comeback cd the same day as GNR. ?It sucks, but legitimacy in music in many ways is defined by ones financial success from the music. ?

Me - I for one plan on getting a copy of Jay-Z's new album as well as Chinese Democracy if it is indeed released this year. ?I'll check out the new Eminem songs that are featured too... as well as Deftones and My Chemical Romance, and anything else that looks interesting that's coming out this year.

Exactly... and the album absolutely must be huge, for it to ever get close to be a financial success.
The album needs to makes $13 million in the matter of months!  If it doesn't, then the furthest off that target they are, the more likely it is that Geffen will drop any plans for the band... and maybe even the band themselves.

IMO opinion oasis were good like 10 years ago, but that my opinion :yes:

i think in the U.K (where shite is lauded like its the greatest thing ever!) both oasis and U2 will outsell Cd, thats hard for me to say but the UK just isn't a "rock" country.

in the UK, bands that are/ pretend to be cockneys or drug addicts are the most famed thing, and magazines talk abot them as if they are on the brink of domination on a galatic scale..............fact is hardly anyone outside the UK gives a fuck who they are or what they sound like.............
..........
....so... due to the Uks poor musical taste i say that Oasis and U2 will win there, but in Us and other euro countries it will be GnR and U" in a two horse race

well now i'm watching billboard list and for example justin timberlake who is very popular in us,after 3 weeks have no riia certification,bob dylan after 5 weeks have 1 riaa,beyonce after 4 weeks have no riia,christina aguilera too,RED HOT CHILLI PAPERS After 21 weeks have1 riaa

None of those records cost their record label $13 million, so they had nothing to fear buy not selling millions in a short amount of time.

They did a little US tour last year and I was at two shows and the shows were huge, completely full. They had a very, very successful tour last year in the states.  BTW, whoever said on the first page about Noel getting in a car accident in Indiana or wherever they said it was, it was in Chicago while he was in a taxi.  GNR will probably top the charts in many, many countries the first week it's released, but I HONESTLY don't know if it can beat Jay Z. People that are SO SURE IT WILL, need to think with some common sense and stop thinking this is 1991.  It would be close it they did happen to be released on the same day (WHICH THEY WON'T!!!).  If CD did come out on the same day as the Oasis GH, it would be a close race for the top spot in the UK. The GH is supposed to be "packaged with extras", although I doubt it will be anything too special. Outside of a new version of Acquiesce, there won't be anything else on the album worth spending the money on, unless you don't have the albums already. I'll buy it just because I'm a huge Oasis fan and the tracks will probably sound a lot better than they did in 1994 and 1995. I'm sure the release date is already set in stone for CD, but it just has yet to be announced yet.  The promoters for the album have probably put a ton of thought into the date and are probably trying to set up a release date with no other MAJOR albums coming out the same day. Axl probably wants to be number one and I have no doubt in my mind that he will accomplish that. VR hit number one here in the states and they sold 250,000 copies in the first week but I think GN'R could probably double that with the right promotion and first single. Deep down, regardless of what anyone else thinks, it would have to bother him a little bit that VR got the top spot on the charts, if indeed he were not able to make to number one.  November is ALWAYS the BIGGEST month of the year for music, ALWAYS!  So I doubt CD will be out in December, it just wouldn't make too much sense. The 21st would be the perfect tuesday though because that Friday is the biggest shopping day of the whole year, at least in the US.  AND I don't really think anyone here is "STRESSING OUT" about how many copies CD will sell. We just want to see our favorite band do the best it can and EVERYONE wants there band to be number one that first week they come out.  After 15 years without a release of original material, for the album to be number one, that would be a great accomplishment. I just want to be able to say to all of my friends and family, that have given me a hard time sometimes about being so loyal to GN'R for so many years, "THAT THE NEW ALBUM IS THE TOP FUCKING ALBUM IN THE WORLD!!!"  What's so wrong with wanting them to be number one?? Not a God damn fucking thing mother fuckers.

What is a riaa ?! ::)

THE UK isn't really a country first of all.  I think that England (a country) for example is more rock than the United States. I live in the US and I would rather listen to most of the UK music before I would listen to some of this new metal bs that all of these shit bands play here in the states. What you said was such an uneducated opinion that is so far from being true.  I feel bad for you. You need to open up your mind and stop listening to the same 3 American bands over and over.  Why do half of these so called "rock" bands that you love in the US, have a fucking DJ in the band?? Rock N' Roll is NOT about having a DJ in the band. That's not rock.  I'm not knocking all new USA bands either, some aren't bad. BUt don't say the UK isn't "ROCK", when in fact so many of the greatest bands of all times have come from that part of the world!!  AND I can't believe you said the UK has "poor musical taste" when the United States of America has some of the worst taste in music EVER!!  Rap and R&B are the top forms of music here, which isn't "rock".  So wouldn't North America be less "rock" than the UK??

Record Industry Association of America... they're the ones that hand out gold and platinum awards and stuff in the US.  Without an RIAA award, the album isn't certified with either of those titles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riaa

There I was thinking rock was about doing what the hell you wanted.
Over time, a style of music draws in influences from other styles of music to create something new... it's still rock, it's just evolved into something new.? And I thought those bands with DJ's in were dying now.? Rock in the US seems to be more about bands like Avenged Sevenfold and Trivium nowadays.

PS - the UK may be a combination of a group of country's... but it's not a continent.  The UK is part of Europe.  THAT'S a continent.

You can think it's rock n' roll if you want, I don't.  It's a mix of rap and rock, which isn't Rock N' Roll.  So you're agreeing that the UK isn't rock?? This thread isn't about this anyway, so my argument is done, but for people to say shit like that doesn't make sense. RAP is the top form of music in this country and that's the bottom line. Rap isn't the top form of music in the UK. So which is more rock??  I don't hate this country fully (I hate how it's run, who runs it, our lenient petaphile\sexual offender laws, etc.) by the way, but the music has gone so fucking downhill since the 90's and I don't know of many people that love PURE rock n' roll that don't agree with that. And I don't think rock N' Roll is about Avenged Sevenfold here, I think it's about Panic at the Disco, which is the top rock act in this country or the Killers for that matter. Not Trivium or Avenged Sevenfold or bands "like them", not at all.

EDIT: Oh and you did get me on the Continent part and I actually thought college was actually paying off for me.  I'll try to raise up my 3.89 GPA to a 4 by the time I graduate so I don't look dumb again.  : ok:

U2 could never beat a Guns N Roses album. Simply because GNR are the biggest band on the planet. I know U2 is big too. But they could never be as big as Guns N Roses. Chinese Democracy will sell alot more.

The different between GNR and U2, is that GNR make class music and U2 make simple and shitty rock pop...

Then I must tell my girlfriend I'm gay :/ Will be quite a shock for her i guess. But well since I like oasis I must be gay, it's so called "gay" music so. ?::)

I think Chinese Democracy will beat U2, Oasis and Jay-Z

Guns N' Roses used to be the biggest band on the planet but I'm not so sure about right now, not yet anyway.  If U2 was putting out a new album that was promoted as well as their previous have been, then U2 would probably beat GNR if they were released on the same day.  FACT IS, there are more people in the world that like U2 compared to that of GNR.  That's just being realistic. I can't stand U2 at all but I'm not going to sit here and lie to myself and say that GNR is the biggest band in the world. Just because they are number one on Pollstar, doesn't make them the biggest.  I hope with CD they do once again become the biggest band, but we will see what happens.  Every show for this part of the tour would be sold out already if they were the biggest band in the world. So, Jimmy Buffett must be the biggest act in the United States because his shows sell out in 5 minutes and he's the only artist that sells 100% of his tickets ALL THE TIME!! Don't go knocking Jimmy Buffett now, or you might get hurt.  ;)

EDIT: BTW, Evanescense sold 447,000 copies of their album this past week to take the top spot on the billboard chart here in the US. The Killers sold 315,000 their first week and got the number 2 a few weeks ago.  I'm just trying to give people an idea of what GNR can and should be able to sell in their first week. I bet it will be close to 600,000 copies but Jay Z will sell more than that I think. There is something new about him every day in music news, doing promotion for this album.  Even though GNR and Jay Z probably won't come out the same week, I just think GN'R need to start doing promotion like this soon. They need to be everywhere that they can and as often as possible.

the reason people are stressing out about it debuting number 1 is because we have been waiting for this moment for 15 years.  Anything less than a number 1 billboard release will be a failure..plain and simple...its like the yankees, unless you win the world series its a failure, this is guns n roses we are talking about here, if this record does not debut at number 1 can you imagine the joy it is going to give every guns hater out there...now debuting at number 1 doesnt change how good the record is, but it sure shoves it down the throat of every person i have known that has talked trash on GNR....either way it is going to be a great record no matter how much it sells, but Axl deserves a number 1 record.....

They'll definitely beat out Oasis here is the states.  Hell, that record may not even chart here.

I suspect they'll outdo U2 as well, Jay Z may be a differnet story.

first i'msure thatchinese democracy don't cost 13 milions bucks
second chinese democracy have a great preparation to be a firstclasic album after many years

I'm sure gnr will sell muchmuch copies than jay z but in six months,sojay z can beat gnr in first 2-3 weeks but after that nochance

btw why doyou count only us!
In europe gnr will sell more copies than jay z,btw gnr sold more than 15 arenas this summer in europe (i was in one)

Isn't it a FACT that CD cost at LEAST that much money?? I'm pretty sure it is.

please telll on what they spent that money (no comercial'n..)

Ten years of studio time, staff salaries, equipment.... and so on ain't cheap.

Yeah... after Geffen gave out a cheque which made the total they'd spent on it $13 million, they refused to pay any more.  So Axl started paying for it himself.

maybe true maybe not. That's not a comfirmed fact yet. especially about the amount.
coming here, I've learned to doubt the accuracy of the press when their source is an anonymous retailer, as well as that of other retailers, ie, media victims.

I think it's a matter of pride too.. I mean what GN'R fan wouldn't want CD hit the number one spot??? and in the way outsell every other major release??? I definitely want that for Axl and co, and for myself as a reward for investing all this time in this band and believing in them (it won't be close to the excitement about the awesome music, but it's a nice bonus)

part of me wants the release date to be on the 21st.. head to head with Jay-Z, beat him and prove everyone that GN'R are back. Like setting up the biggest challenge and come out triumphant

but realistically, I just want them to be a success in the charts so I don't mind if they go with a safer date to accomplish this

(U2 and Oasis are no worries.. they are GHs opposed to CD full of new music anticipated for over 10 years, CD should and will win them)

The source was a guy from Geffen... hardly a retailer.

it will do oasis profile in america a world of good! u2 they will always sell well, but isn't this there 3rd greatest hits albums, GNR need to promote or they might not even get a top ten postion.

the mighty Oasis?  lolol :rofl: :rofl:

Indeed...you better should.  ;)  :P  ;D

Jay-Z will start off quicker than GN'R, but over the long haul Chinese Democracy should outsell Jay-Z's album. Rappers nowadays always have FRONTLOADED albums. All they care about is being #1 the week it's released. After that, many people don't give a rat's arse to go buy the album after it's been out for a while. Think about how many "classic" rap albums there are vs. rock. Not many at all. I just think Axl needs to be reintroduced to the public and perhaps he'll begin to tell his side of the story. He has been trashed and labeled by his ex-bandmates in the media over and over the last 10 years and he's sat back and taken it up the ass without any kind of rebuttal. For that reason, a lot of folks consider him a joke (not to mention his "style" in 2002 being goofy as hell). Like I said before, though, GN'R will outsell Jay-Z in the long run just as the old GN'R has outsold Jay-Z by a HUGE margin both in the U.S. and around the world.

Yeah rather than focusing on the first week, fly at longer game.


Who from Geffen? did they name the name? Would a report on accounts say this project racked up around $~ /more than $~? Not that there's no truth to it for sure. Either way it won't do the album any harm. but I wouldn't call it an accurate report lets alone an established fact YET.

Man, if CD is released on the same date as Jay-Z, and Jay-Z beats out GNR for the top spot, that will only further imprint the fact that the US is culturaly retarted when is comes to music. 

With a single and proper promotion, I think GNR wins, status quo, Jay-suck wins.

Oasis has sold more records than GNR worldwide I would wager its close but I'd say Oasis trumps them.  LennonisGod your signature is killer, and for all you Oasis haters every trendy band you have heard in the past 5 years is heavily Oasis influenced.

I'm sorry but you fucked yourself there. Every trendy band has sucked in the past 5 years.

I didn't proclaim them to be good bands, but acts like The Strokes, The Vines,Jet, Good Charlotte (barf),Coldplay, The Killers all cite Oasis  as one of their major influences.

If anyone thinks this U2 album is gonna sell extremely well right off the bat they're kidding themselves. The hardcore U2 fan(myself included) are not gonna rush out and buy this thing. It's their third Best Of release in the last 7 years and third in their last five releases period. It's crap. If this album does beat out Oasis's first Best Of album then WOW that says alot about the appeal of U2. Fact is I don't see this U2 album selling hugely(maybe over time) because to be honest alot of the fans, actually a huge majority of U2 fans aren't happy with it. There's no need for it so.... Also any of you who are gonna sit there and use this as some sort of measure of Guns N' Roses popularity if CD outsells this U2 album are on crack. A new studio album by U2 would trump any band as far as opening week goes YES EVEN Chinese Democracy.  CD had better outsell U2 18. It should, it will and there's no reason to think it won't. Though if it doesn't than it says one of two things. The Gn'R appeal just isn't there the way many of us would like it to be or, the U2 appeal is alot bigger than any of you want to admit. :peace:

The U2 album is going to sell huge, just like any other recent U2 album.  The band knows this, this is why they are releasing it.

Oh ya I hate U2, but this is why it is going to sell huge.  Everyone likes them.  Mostly white people, mostly yuppies.  Moms and dads too there sons and daughters.  They think this is great rock and roll. 

U2 is very radio friendly(Recently).  So most of there new songs get played, until you scream.

You cant turn the TV on some days with out seeing Bono on it, with his stupid sun glass's.  He is so over hyped.

Oasis is a great band, one of my fav's.  There album will sell huge in Europe and Canada.   Big in the states, but nothing to special.

Guns N Roses new album will be one of the biggest sellers of the year.  My prediction is 5-7 Million in the us.  Another 7 million worldwide

just want to chime in also on the Jay Z thing. Obviously they won't be put out on the same day but I would think that a Jay Z album is gonna have a bigger opening week than CD based simply on promo and MTV. The promo for Jay Z's album has already begun and what have Gn'R done for Promo? NOTHING except tour ?while playing a set hugely lopsided with old songs. Hell all the promo here on radio(if any) goes like this: Guns N' Roses with Axl Rose will be at the saddledome on December 6th...que Jungle, SCOM, or PC. There's barely a ?whisper about CD and to be honest it's getting ridiculous. Hell U2 is putting out their Best Of album on Nov, 21st and they've already had the new single on radio here for a week or so. When does Gn'R plan on starting some type of promo? It boggles the mind that little to nothing has been done so far. ???

So you are actually thinking it is going to come out this year then?

I think if it does it will be one of the biggest sellers, but I will bet anyone anything that we dont see this album for some time.

Think about it.  Do you really think the record company would, just release this album, just like that.  No promotion, no single, no video, nothing.  Just one tuesday it shows up on the shelves?  Ya that isnt going to happen.   They have so much ridding on the album, in just the money spent on producing they are going to market the fuck out of it.   

When has a CD come out recently with nothing to back it up???   I cant think of any.

Look at the new CD The Killers just came out with(Sams Town).  Here in Edmonton, they were almost on the second released single on the radio, before it was released.  Same with the new Pearl Jam, same with U2 and same with a couple of years ago Velvet Revolver.

This CD aint commin out any time soon.

You know what's funny about that comment. When I go to a hard rock show like Gn'R I dont' recall seeing anyone of color or at the very most very few. On the other hand when I go to a U2 show you see every color of the rainbow. You see, Indians, east Indians, mexicans, Africans, whites, Asians you name it they are at a U2 concert in abundance. I can't say the same thing for Gn'R. ?U2's music is not designated to only "white people" in fact you proved that yourself by saing "Moms and dads too there sons and daughters. That basically means everyone :hihi: At U2 you see young and old, you see women, and men, boys and girls, grandparents. U2 is cross gender, cross race and cross generational. There isn't ?really another band out there that is like that. ?Not to such a ?huge extent anyways. And for the record I'm not a Yuppie. :peace:

U2 has wide appeal because they are so bland. They're the vanilla ice cream of Rock n' Roll.  :hihi:

?I know. To be honest the doubts of a 2006 release are again starting to creep in. I mean it's idiotic the way they are going about things. ?The general ?consensus was that the album won't come out on December 26th(I was one who thought it could) so that makes it December 19th as the latest it could come out. It's amazing that we're just over two months away from the latest possible release date and yet we have no word of a single, and no hint to an album release date. ?11 Tuesdays left and only 10 if we don't count Dec, 26th. Promo needs to start RIGHT FUCKING NOW! I just dont' get what all the secrecy is about right now. You can't help but wonder if even they(the abnd and management) know if the album will be out this year. Whatever they're doing it's definately unconventional. ???

Oh I see. So bland and boring appeals to people. I guess it wouldn't have anything to do with them being timeless and epic   and flat out good. But whatever helps ya sleep at night. : ok:

Most people are bland and boring, and that's why it appeal so much.

It would make no sence to some out in December. ?In the states I think there biggest Christmas shop is the day after thanksgiving. ?So if this album is ready for a December release, means that it should be ready for a November release. ?One month would not make a hole lot of a difference, if it is ready it is ready if it isnt it isnt. ? So it is ready, I am sure they are going to do what ever they can to get it out for that after Thanksgiving date.

So with that said.. ? We would have heard something by now. ?Or heard something. ? ?

If the music is ready, they should just let that speak for itself and stop with all the hush hush

I think that is called radio friendly.  U2 now has a sound that sells.  They have a product (U2).  They are a huge buisness.  They are going to do what is right for that product. 

The old U2 is a complety different band, to the current one I think.....    Still how can millions of people be wrong.....    haha..

Being bland is not the most horrible thing in the world...unoffensive might be a better adjective. Nobody hates vanilla ice cream...it's something that anyone from 5-95 can enjoy. Not like GNR, who might appeal to a more narrow demographic. They're the rocky road of ice cream. Kids and Grandmothers can't handle the dangerous marshmellows.  :no:

GNR are keeping much of this on the lowdown, because they want the release to be viewed as "real", rolling right out of the streets with credibility.  Moreover, the more they push things out there, it gives the U2 (I personally love the older stuff)/Jack Johnson, yuppie, jock sniffing WASP's/pretensious journalists time to get together their pre-album schlocking (without hearing it, many critics already have a canned, overly critical review ready) into the pop culture universe. They are playing this beautifully--and lying in hiding for the ambush!  GNR wants to appeal to the hipsters, punks, junkies, college kids, and every other reject the world over.  They are not pandering for the golf pants wearing yuppies, who bend over and take it from their white collared boss and Fortune 500 company everyday.  They don't need the "Born on 4th of July," eating Apple Pie crowd.  They are playing for something more long term--shooting for the history books and legacy. 

BTW, people complaing about lack of promotion are nuts.  During the past five years, no album has had more collective hype and hyperbole surrounding it than Chinese Democracy.  The tour is selling well, and is gaining a buzz--it's exciting, it's dangerous, it's a new band, and it's not a safe show like the Stones or Aerosmith.  Announce the release date with a single two to three weeks before the release, and hit like a fuckin cross-fire Hurricane!!  Uzi fuckin Suicide! 

BTW it's coming in November!

So I guess I am nuts then.

But read this, then tell me you arnt nuts as well.

You say Guns N Roses isnt a safe show?  Oh really...   Well from every bootleg I have seen and for every review I have read this year, they pretty much have the same setlist(Give or take 3-5 songs).  Dont kid your self, this is not the GNR of 1987, they are pretty safe.  For the most part the band isnt even allowed to speak about certain things unless given permision or whatever.   Ya that is so not safe...

You dont think they want to appeal to everyone?  Axl is fucking 40 years old.  I think he is going to appeal more today to a 40 year old than to a 16 year old.  If he dosnt, wouldnt he be like a Micheal Jackson or something, just to a different crowd.  (sorry that would be a 40 year old to a 9 year old, but you get the point).  The point really is, HE(Axl) and the record company and the bands managment is going to try and sell this album to who ever they can.  Money talks baby.  Just look at Green Day.  Think they are turning any yuppies and goofs away from buying there last album, No.   The band grows up and so does the audience.  You really think this album is going to be about getting high on smack, hitting a bitch, or drinking wine?   Fuck no.  I hope not anyways.  I am 26 years old and that shit was cool around 10 years ago.  (Ok the whole hitting a bitch thing is still cool)

You talk about this new band and how excitting they are.   Hey I am all for change and I think this new band rocks, BUT until I see an album and see who wrote what who played on what etc..   These guys are just a bunch of touring mucians playing Axl's songs.   

Ya so I guess I am nuts for complaining about the lack of promotion then.  This is my fav band on the planet.   Axl is god to me.   All I want is to hear something, anything.   Probably like most hard core fans.  But we are nuts for wanting this?  I really hope this is not the attitude of the band or I think I would have to be nuts to buy this album when it comes out.

Well, that's cool--to each his own.  We all have our opinions.

My bet is this:  1st single on Halloween, with the release date.

My guess is the album will be out November 27, 2007 right in time for black friday.

Only 9 or so tuesdays left in 2006, 56 left in 2007.

I would classify "by the end of the year" as soon.

Thanksgiving is on the 22nd next year, making "Black Friday" the 23rd. So you're idea won't work, sorry. 

I think you guys are all way too concerned about Chinese Democracy hitting number one right away. Axl has been working on an album that will be a classic, and sales over the long term are what counts. Led Zeppelin IV never went to number one and it's one of the greatest, biggest selling, highest regarded albums in rock history. This is what Axl is looking to compete with, not some ass clown called Jigga, or a greatest hits album from an Irish politician. Axl is looking to compete against such albums as Zeppelin IV, Darkside, Appetite For Destruction, and Sticky Fingers. You guys make way to big a deal about CD going to number one in it's first week. I would prefer it if CD went to number one months after it came out.

We're not concerned about it getting to number one right away.  It's Geffen who will be, because that's how record labels think.  We're talking from the point of view of a record industry exec here, not as us.

Yeah, that's what I've been posting with the mindset of in these types of threads. I maintain that if the album comes out and sells 100 copies I don't care as long as I like it. I'm sure the record company would like a couple more zero's behind that 100 though...

Put it this way - if the album fails financially Axl will have failed in his mind because he's set out to prove that he can exist as GN'R without Slash and the boys and if Chinese Democracy doesn't sell very well, in spite of positive reviews, Axl will take it to heart.

That said, I think CD will become a cult phenomenon - it'll have a huge opening, drop real fast in the coming weeks, then slowly build itself up more and more as time passes on. In ten years it'll be considered a masterpiece and something misunderstood and ahead of its time.

my god, your assuming "i know everything about music" is utterly astounding!

did i say i like bands with DJ's? NO!

when i say american bands i mean old school american bands Aerosmith, the crue, seb bach, van halen (old stuff), metallica, Kiss, audioslave and on and on and on............................

Do any of these bands have DJ's? NO!

Have any of these bands ever had chart success and a lot of airplay in the UK? NO!

thats the facts my assuming friend.

the only band IMO in the UK thats doing good rock music (that i have heard) are the tokyo dragons.


instaed the british public like pete doherty, a junkie wanabe, who can barely tune a guitar (thats not a joke btw, im serious) and plays wildly off key shite. the artic mokeys hailed as britains next great act............utterly tuneless.

fact is USA is so massive that there is huge sections of different types of music. Rock, country, rap etc etc.

in the uk that isn't the case, everyone listens to the same ubiquitous shite, save a few people who have some knowledge of music.


 GnR were the biggest band in the world late 80's early 90's and they didn't have huge airplay or chart success, just a die hard fan base. whats chanmged to make them a massive success in britain..

as far as i remember SCOM only just made the top 10 or maybe even 20 in the uk!!!!!

thats why U2 and Oasis will sell better in the UK.


P.s ayone who says U2 are shite are just retarded, do you know its actually ok to like another band and GnR.
also Axl said that U2's "one" was one of the best songs he ever heard and made hime cry when he heard it.......they must be shite then eh?

fool

apparently Rock Star Supernova is releasing their album on November 21st too :hihi:

Uh OH!   :nervous:

Chinese Democracy is gonna get crushed.  ;)

first thing first, OASIS IS NOT MIGHTY !

Guns N' Roses is a fantastic band
U2 is a fantastic band
Oasis is a fantastic band

It's not a "fight". You can love all of them. Anyway, I don't think ChiDem will be released on the same day though...

Finally someone said it.

Wouldn't it be great if this was on the first page, and there was no argument.

Hmmmmm... Let me think for a minute... Didn't GN'R just have a pretty damn successful European tour?? YES they did. So don't tell me that GN'R aren't very popular in the UK, that's bull shit.  AND you first say that America has better taste in music than the UK, then you change what you originally said to, "When I say American bands, I mean old-school American bands." You're argument is decelerated because if we compare "old school" american music to "old school" music out of the UK, it really doesn't compare in most cases. Most of the biggest bands EVER TO GRACE THIS WORLD are from the UK; The Beatles, The Stones, The Kinks, Pink Floyd, The Cure, Led Zep, Queen, U2, Oasis, THe Clash, ACDC, etc. Do I even have to go on?? Compare the list you made to the list I made. Sebastian Bach is listed as an all time American great by you?? Come on now. I love Bach, but he's not even near the top of the list as far as American Music goes. In your argument you named old American bands and then started trying to compare them to Pete fucking Doherty (who isn't a wannabe junkie by the way, HE IS A JUNKIE!!!) from the Libertines and the Arctic Monkeys, BOTH NEWER BANDS. I don't know why I'm even arguing with someone like you?? I'm wasting my time with you, so I'm done trying to argue with someone that doesn't know music very well outside of 5 bands. Don't call me a fool either, that's complete idiocy. I never once acted like a 10 year old fucking kid and called you anything. And why the hell did this conversation even turn into a UK VS. USA competition?? You said the UK "wasn't rock" and I was merely sticking up for them and saying they were and you had to change it into something completely different. How can you be so sure that GN'R can't sell well in the UK??  Oasis and U2 are putting out albums of previously released material, right?? If that's the case, how can you be so fucking positive that GN'R can't beat those two bands with a new album of new music??  I don't give a fuck about how well Sweet Child 'O Mine did on the fucking singles chart 18 years ago in the UK, it's a whole new world now. I hope GN'R grabs that top spot and makes you eat your fucking nonsensical, and at times laughable, ridiculous words. I tried so hard not to reply to you because it wasn't worth it, but I ended up typing way too much shit because I can't let someone that knows almost nothing, feel as if they know everything.

Didn't mean to start a peeing match over the whole thing.  I just thought "Mighty Oasis" deserved a good laugh.

ahahahhaha only apettite for destruction has sold more copies world wide than all Oasis albums put together, this so funny, i used to like the almighty Oasis, but their couple last albums suck big time...

And U2 is U2 , the best band ever...Period.

Appetite for Destruction has not sold more copies than all Oasis albums put together.  ::) It's a huge album but it's not that huge. GN'R has sold 80 million albums worldwide, am I wrong? Or is that a national count?

back in the 90' s Oasis were very big in america Morning glory went 4xplatinum, Be here now peaked at #2 in the us.

Last year their album "don't believe the truth" sort of made a comback when it charted at #12 (despite practically zero promo). Their tour in america for DBTT was thier biggest ever. They sold out Madison square gardens in just 1 hour, they also sold out the hollywood bowl, Boston Tweeter Center and other venues.

If oasis were pushed by promotion they would still be massive in america. Yet they don't get any promo i mean most of oasis album sales are based on the Hardcore Fans.

But in The Uk Oasis are still the biggest band in the UK for the last 15years. And they should beat u2 to #1 gnrs will probably be top5 but not #1 in the uk.

80million yeah about right

GNR have sold

38.5million in the us

2m Uk

Total (40.5 Uk+Usa)
------------
U2

Uk 15.5m
Us 50.5m

Total (66m uk+usa)
---------------

Oasis

7m US

13m Uk

total 20m (uk+usa)

You seem to forget the rest of the world sales, in which case GNR would win anyway.

Haha.... thats funny. The guy that won that show was in my store the other night. He was actually a pretty nice guy but his "people" were cockasses.

GNR sold about 5 or 6 million records in the UK. with 1 million records for the GH alone.

first of all... U2 are irish, its only tits from the uk that try and push the uk's musical street cred furter by clasing them "British".

second only two member of ac/dc (current line up) are from uk, both left when they were under the age of 8 i think, thats the same stupid argument that slash is english.....pulease.


i didnt say GnR weren't popular in the UK and yes they did have a successful euro tour, but they didnt make a huge splash on the popular music culture (charts, various music channels, radio etc etc), when they were like HUGE everywhere else.

of all the bands you listed some finished more than 30 years ago, and some kinda died in the 80's, dont get me wrong, i like those bands, but the fact is there are no great rock bands in the u.k for abot the last 16 years, rock is a far more prominent culture elsewhere (eg. U.S, differernt euro countries).


its not a USA vs UK argument, it was a point to say that i thought U2 and Oasis would sell better in the UK, but not globally, because the UK has next to no rock scene at the moment, take for example Bush, they were a british rock band (and one i didnt like much, but hey...) and they did absolutely fuck all in the UK, to the point where people dont even know who the fuck they were, but in the US they did pretty well for themselves. i think Lost prophets are an example of that too, but i could be wrong.


name me a succesful Rock band from britain to have chart sucess (real sucess...) both in UK and US in the last 10 years? there are none coz there is no rock scene in the uk right now!!! there used to be but not now!!! :rant:


this is why Oasis will do better than GnR in the uk (even though that sickens me!)


you also said "stop listening to the same american bands with DJ's", thats why i got pissed. you assumed i was some spotty 12 year old sitting pulling my wire to linkin park and jay-z............ ::)


i also stick by my statement the the musci buying public in britain have "poor muscial taste" imo

Muse, Stereophonics, Placebo, Manic Street Preachers.

I think Radiohead would top those ones

i wouldn't call any of those bands rock bands, but if you want to thats your right and your opinion :beer:

stereophonics/ placebo/ and the manics are all in the indie catergory for me

and i would say muse/ radiohead were a type of rock band, yes.

the point i still have is trhat with the exception of radiohead (and maybe muse), these bands dont have huge success in USA to my knowledge

WTF?? So NONE of the indie bands are rock bands?? Wow you are one confused person and I just thank God that I don't think like you do.  "IF YOU ARE AN INDIE ROCK BAND, YOU ARE NOT A ROCK BAND!!" Makes a lot of sense.

EDIT:  WHEN DID I SAY THAT U2 WAS BRITISH, LIKE YOU ARE SAYING THAT I SAID??  I NEVER ONCE DID!! I know U2 is from Dublin, which is right next to the UK in Ireland. IS it the Northen part of Ireland that's considered part of the UK or am I wrong?? I know Dublin is in the Souther part, so I am so sorry if Dublin isn't considered part of the UK, but I never said they were fucking British. This is such a dumb fucking argument and you wonder why I think you're 12, because you say things a 12 year old would say. You argue like a 12 year old and repeat the same shit over and over. You make no sense and you proved it with your last post. An indie band can't be a rock band?? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?? I think mommy might be calling you for dinner my little friend.  Off you go now...

And just because I love to prove you wrong because it's so easy... you asked to show you a band that has had huge success in the US and the UK in the last 16 years, so here you go: RADIOHEAD
   
   Chart   
   Peak    
1993   Pablo Honey                         Heatseekers                2
1993   Pablo Honey                         The Billboard 200       32
1995   The Bends                          The Billboard 200        88
1997   OK Computer                        The Billboard 200      21
1997   OK Computer                        Top Canadian Albums  3
1998   Airbag/How Am I Driving [EP]      The Billboard 200       56
1998   Airbag/How Am I Driving [EP]      Top Canadian Albums   12
2000   Kid A                                        The Billboard 200       1
2000   Kid A                                         Top Canadian Albums   1
2001   Amnesiac                             The Billboard 200    2
2001   Amnesiac                             Top Canadian Albums  1
2001   Amnesiac                             Top Internet Albums    1
2001   I Might Be Wrong (live album)       The Billboard 200        44
2001   I Might Be Wrong (live album)       Top Internet Albums     25
2001   Kid A                                         Top Internet Albums   15
2003   Hail to the Thief                    The Billboard 200     3
2003   Hail to the Thief                   Top Canadian Albums   1
2003   Hail to the Thief                      Top Internet Albums  3

Of course now you'll have some stupid argument about why Radiohead "isn't a rock band" or something.  My argument here is finished. Nice talking to you.

my god, do you even read other peoPles posts, or your own for that matter!!!

YOU CLEARLY LUMPED U2 IN AMONG A HOST OF BRITISH BANDS AND CAST THEM OFF AS THE SAME!!!!

 :peace:

i tried to be nice, bury the hatchett if you will but you couldn't leave it.

if you actually read my post i said i didnt think they were rock bands in MY OPINION!!!!!

also, i yeilded that radiohead were  succesfull in US, but said the rest hadn't done so well.

 but then you go and quote a whole load of chart positions for radiohead???

do you even read? stay of the drugs :hihi:

sorry for the double post.....

also you are correct.

 i dont see indie music as being as form of rock music, i see it as an extension of the manchester club scene where bands like the happy mondays, stone roses, oasis and blur were the founders, and the buliding blocks on which the genre was built.

to me this is not rock music, not at all.

now indie seems to be jangly guitars with a cockney accent, IMO!! its an opinion so its personal to me.....


so chill out man ;D

As it doesn't seem CD is being released on the 21st anyway it's a somewhat academic arguement.

However


Firstly it needed a pretty big band to be able to perform to a full house at Wembley stadium, only bands the size of Queen and the Stones can/could do that, GNR did it twice on the UYI tour I believe they also played at the Milton Keynes bowl which is again a massive venue (80,000+) in 93. I think that qualifys as pretty HUGE in my opinion.


In which European countries is rock more prominent than the UK? We might not have produced a great rock band in the last 10 years but the music produced by those great bands of the last 30-40 years is engrained in our culture, and is still the biggest influence on any British band starting out.



The Lost Prophets are well known here, I didn't know they had done well in the US though.


Your last comment is just plain ignorant though I'm afraid, the music buying public buys whats on sale and in general thats the same stuff as in the US. The fact is there have been no great rock bands on a par with GNR or Queen from either the US or the UK in the last 10 years, so the public buys the best of whats on offer which in Britain has been stuff like Oasis.

Finland, Sweden, Norway.  Rock and metal constantly tops the charts in those country's.

Before I made my list of bands on the last page, I said "bands from the UK". I'm sorry if those bands WERE British, but I said nothing about being british and just tried to make a list of UK bands with England NOT IN MIND, hence naming U2.  You ALSO NEVER SAID THAT RADIOHEAD WAS SUCCESSFUL in the US, you simply stated and AGREED with someone that Radiohead was indeed a "Rock" band.  You've made me go so far off topic and I'm done with that shit. I wish you would actually take a chance and check out some indie bands, many from America, and I'm sure your OPINION on them being rock would change. Just because they don't have huge recording contracts does NOT MEAN THEY AREN'T ROCK!  Indie is derived from the word INDEPENDENT and simply means that they are free from being commercial and mainstream.  Of course not all Independent bands are rock, they can be from any genre of music out there, but just because you aren't making 10 million dollars a year for being in a huge rock band, doesn't mean a band on an independent label cannot also be a rock band.  It's like saying the band you play in every wednesday night at the bar, isn't a rock band because it's not on a major label. I'm just trying to show you otherwise, because your OPINION on that is wrong. It's just a fact, that's it.  And don't ask if I even read because you have misquoted me so many times already and I have not yet to you.  I don't need to misquote people to try and get my point across.  BTW, I am off the drugs and have been since April, with 13 months left of rehab, so thank you for your concern.

EDIT:  YOU ARE SO FRUSTRATING!!!  I just want to reach through the computer and give a little smack on the head and say "WAKE UP"!!!!!!!!  MAINLY FOR THIS STATEMENT about Independent music: "i see it as an extension of the manchester club scene where bands like the happy mondays, stone roses, oasis and blur were the founders, and the buliding blocks on which the genre was built. To me this is NOT rock music at all." What are you talking about??  How is Oasis a founder of Independent music??  You sir, are one crazy mother fucker, but we all still love you anyway.

Agreed, they should have at least put Don't Go Away on there.  The rest of the album isn't so great.

This must be the longest post ever!

haha, i think you could be right, and i commend lennoniisgod for sticking byb his guns as i will stick to mine :beer: :hihi: :rofl: : ok:

my figures are based on shipment sales  :yes:

Alright, I agree. I think the argument can now end that we have both said our piece. I'm tired of typing these long as fucking posts...