Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Buckethead, Paul Tobias, Josh Freese


Do You? I don't . They're more like song writing contributers at this point and not actual former members in my opinion.

GN'R has had only five members so far: Axl, Slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven. The others (Dizzy, Gilby, BH, Finck etc.) were and are employees.


When (if...) the album comes out we'll be able to judge if anyone besides the original five (and Matt) had that I'd call 'creative membership'.

when CD comes out, I think we will be able to classify Buckethead as former member, new/leaked songs show that he contributed a lot to GNR's music. Without him, Better,  CD, IRS and even Madagascar would sound TOTALLY different. If you listen to his other work, you'll know what I mean.

I don't question Ron's talent or spirit, but Buckethead was unique and he shaped the music of newGNR, maybe as much as (if not more than) Axl or Robin. he's one unreplaceable, unique guitarist. And he is the main difference between the old and the new versions of the band (both of which I admire)

"Buckethead, Paul Tobias, Josh Freese


Do You? I don't . They're more like song writing contributers at this point and not actual former members in my opinion."

Actually I'm with you on that one...Buckethead only did 15 dates in 2002 with GNR (I think that pop singer Tiffany had more tour dates on her Mall tour-LOL) :hihi:...I remember reading some post where a dude went to a BH show and someone asked him who the fuck BH was and he described his as an ex-GNR guitarist...and I was like, wow I never thought of him like that....But seriously...I don't consider any of those guys members of GNR...aquaintances, session folk...but not members...but to each his own... :smoking:

I personaly dont consider Josh Freese as ex memeber

I consider BH a former member, just not an original member, like Gilby.

Depends on what you mean by member.  If you mean the substance of their musical contributions, then I guess BH since the guitar parts he wrote are expected to be on CD.  But from a legal sense, the only members were the original 5 and 4 of them are gone.

Are they on stage when the lights are hit and the announcer announces the band as Guns N Roses? Are they on the payroll? Are they performing on the CD that you bought with the name Guns N Roses on the cover. Are their names on the credits of your CD cover? GNR is Axl's band and anyone who plays with and or for him is a member of GNR. It's Axl's call. If you don't like it, don't go to the shows or buy the CD's.

Here is a question for ya, would you rather that Axl not use the name Guns N Roses for his band?

 ??? ??? He asked about "former" members?!!  And he asked what we consider, not Axl.   :-\

'

I don't consider Josh a former member.
I consider Paul a songwriter for the band.
And yeah I do consider Buckethead a former member of GNR. He rocks. He wrote songs for CD, played shows with the band, was the co-star of '02, and will still be on the record.

I'd like to see where this was confirmed for once.

Bumblefoot has said he will not be on the record. Trust me. If you want the physical proof I can message him if you want.. but I'd rather not bug him. Just trust me... and if you really need to see it for your own eyes I'll message him for you and post the message responce here.

Dizzy also said that Buckethead would still be on the record.. but theres less proof there.. but I trust it because of what Bumble has been saying.

I understand your want for clarification though.. it's hard to keep up with stuff here sometimes.

  -jack

No need to email Ron; I know he said he won't be on the album. But that doesn't mean Bucket will.

As for Dizzy saying Bucket will, when was that? It's very possible that he didn't know for sure though.

I think there's a chance he won't be on it. People seem to be too convinced that he will be, I think.

Are you intentionally trying to turn this thread into a shit hole?

..is there any word on WHO will be on the new cd for sure?... I assume all pauls work is still there... it sounds like it may be a mess figuring royalties..

I've done some checkin' on this... and it's likely that the following will do most (or all) the work:

Drums: Brain
Bass: Tommy Stinson
Guitars: Finck, Fortus, Buckethead (possibly Axl, Paul, Brian May)
Keys/piano/synth/effects etc: Dizzy/Chris/Axl
Arrangements: Paul Buckmaster, Marco Beltrami, Howard Carp

About Buckethead/Paul, I'm pretty sure Buckethead will be there since Thal said he wont. Also it seems they tried getting Buckethead back into the band before this last tour. Tobias' probably has some parts there still, but it also makes sense that Fortus re-recorded some.

Dave Navarro, Gary Sunshine (guitar) will most likely not feature. Some sources claims Axl did some work with Rivers Coumo (Weezer) and Lionel Richie, but I don't know a lot about that. And then there has been some rappers involved at some point - if anyone, Nas will be on it.

Sarah Brightman (sic)?

No, they are not a part of the Gn'R legacy...

Just for the record, Buckethead played 26 shows with Gnr in 2001/2002-recorded with the band from 2000 to 2004. I too think they are are all contracted employees until I see a record with writing credits etc.

No, not really

No, not really. I consider them ex-Axl's bandmates. Is Paul Huge an ex-gunner?? :confused:

DIZZY IS NOT JUST AN EMPLOYEE  :rant:

I agree apart from Axl he is the longest serving band member and he wasnt a replacement for anybody either if the time had been right he would of been in the band from day one

NEITHER IS FINCK   :rant:

People on a payroll are employees. Guns N Roses is not only a band, it's also a company. A company owned by Axl, for which Dizzy, Finck, Fortus, Brain, Pitman and Thal work (probably amongst some others). They do not own part of the company, therefore they are not employers, therefore they are employees!

Dizzy was on UYI albums and on TSI and on LIVE ERA.... HE IS NOT JUST AND EMPLOYEE... HE IS MEMBER OF THE BAND FOR MORE THAN 16 YEARS  :rant: GET OVER IT

It doesn't matter how long he's been there. If he gets paid a contracted fee, he's really just an employee. If he earns royalties, like all the original members did, then he's part of a partnership and hence is a member of the group.

But a mediocre conga player  :-*

Stop getting your panties in a bunch, it's semantics: he's an employee, by every definition of the word, period. You and I can like dizzy as much as we want, and he can be part of this band for another gazillion years, he'll remain an employee unless uncle Axl decides to take him in the partnership, which he never will. Dizzy being an employee has nothing to do with Dizzy's qualities, it has everything to do with Axl's policies and decisions. Same goes for the rest of the band members: they are hired hands. Get over it. No offence meant.

Do you consider present members former members, that is , if they were formerly present? How far back do you have to go before you formally consider one a present member?  :confused:

????  How much weed have you smoked today?! :peace:

no, i really dont giv a dam about them. The only 1s i consider "members" are: Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Adler, Matt...mayb Dizzy

oh ok... then why Matt... and maybe Dizzy ... as both of them joined the group the same period  :-X ?

? ? whenever my friends ask about who's in gnr, i'll list the original lineup, then i'll add "oh yeah, but the drummer was replaced by this other guy called matt".
? ? i never seem to think of Dizzy when? i think of "Guns N' Roses", even if I know that he's been in the band for around 16 years already and that's more than Adler.? :-\
? ? I know, not fair to poor old Dizzy. but i just wanted to speak my mind, and it's what my mind always seem to think. 

WTF, Gilby joined the band after Izzy quit, he new he was an employee.....plain and simple.

in Live Era booklet, Dizzy is part of the band [along with the original 5 members], while Matt and Gilby are additional musician

Exactly thank god someone realised that,

 and some where on this post someone mentioned the people on the album, Duff was there during the first 1997 recording. Althought that was re-recored over with different bassits, so shouldn't Duff not get some Album credit.

Dave from RHCP and Janes Addiction was hired help as well.

Your right..  He is a tool too!!  Sorry, always thought that of him.

Dizzy makes Guns tunes sound weaker.

yes.... and that's why he didn't replace anyone from the original members

And he was the only one of the three who still played with Axl in 1999.  :-X  Nota bene: Matt and Gilby played on more LE tracks than the original members they had replaced.

Did you even listen to UYI?

or estranged maybe?  :P

Yes and the songs would be better and more raw without him...

Wasn't that Axl that wrote and played that on the album? And mostly I am refering to Dizzy palying all the unwarranted piano live every damn song.. Appetite songs do not need that shit.

 AXL was on the album but Dizzy was on the live performances...

Well, I phrased this badly I suppose. How I meant it was I consider BH the same as Gibly, both "Former members" just not "Original members"

I consider Member/ Former Members musicians who actually wrote a fair amount of music on a GNR record that consists of original GNR Songs..(Not covers).

So in that Respect so far

Axl, Izzy, Slash,Duff.Steven,Matt,Dizzy? are for me the members/ former Members of GNR.

Gilby was a hired musician for the tour & a cover album.

I don't consider the Musicians who played on Oh My God members as it was 1 song for a soundtrack and in an experimental phase.
More as guests..Unless Of course they play on a few songs on the new Gnr album.

As far as the new Band goes...It seems

Tommy,Robin,Brain,Bucket,Pittman are the ones that will be on CD so i consider them as members/former members..
Fortus will be probably be on CD too..

Ron is just a hired touring guitarist at the moment..like Gilby was...

Estranged, I kind of love that song, so when someone says somthing like that I kind of get pissed.

buckethead I do and that's it.

What you said pretty much sums up what I feel.  Because if Navarro, Freese, etc. were counted as 'ex members' then so would Alice Cooper and Teddy Andreas and others with song writing contributions on various albums. 

Fair comments.  Even Matt, Dizzy and Gilby have really just been employees of the band.  They didn't have an equal membership with the original five.  Of course, Steven lost his membership before the last gig he played with the band.  Axl tried to put Iz on a contract too before he left.  Crazy really, who demotes their founding member exactly?   :o

Axl and Izzy are the only founding members that every one can agree on. Slash + Duff + Steven just replaced Tracci + Rob + and the other one.

 :no: IT WASN'T GUNS N ROSES BACK THEN

it was called Guns n Roses. but when they first signed a contract, Slash, Duff and Steven were part of the band, which makes them original members. there's no doubt about it.

that lasted only for 2-3 months.... Slash+Duff+Steven played on their first record

That is the lamest arguement ever... Like someone said, it wasn't Gn'R back then.. And THEY SUCKED until Slash, Duff and Steven came along!!!!! Have you heard the Hollywood Rose CD?

How can they ignore their roots?

That's interesting. I've read an interview with Slash, I think (it might have been Gilby, I don't remember well), here at Here Today... where he clearly said that Axl's classifying Matt as "additional musician" in the album credits was a kind of vengeance for what Matt said to Axl before quitting the band / getting kinced or whatever it really was or for something else "Matt did to Axl", I don't remember right now. I concluded it had nothing to do with the real legal status of Matt as a band member. Did Matt sue Axl for that??

Well said! : ok:

I guess you guys think that the UYI's aint any GNR records then ??? ::)

If you are on and contributed to an album with that band, you are a member/were a member.
If you just played the live stuff, you're a hired gun(sorry for the pun).

some people seriously make me laugh out loud here.

anyone who thinks they have the right to say who is or isn't "GnR" is fucking delusional.  none of us make that decision.  We aren't in the band, we don't own the name Guns N' Roses.

Ok but as fans we are talking amongst ourselves on who we consider to be true ex members and not. I agree with the statement as of now the only FORMER members to me are

Izzy , Duff , Slash , Matt , Steven

Everyone else is either an Ex or Current employee until CD is released.

Yeah! who the fuck is Steven Adler anyway?

wow i can't believe I forgot adler well , yea he is an ex member too lol

without teddy zigzag it can't be Guns N' Roses.  It just can't.  ::)

I do but not Josh. He was only a guest artist.


 :peace:

Has it ever been rumored that Nas done any work with Axl on CD?

yeah, but i don't think he will

They were in Guns N' Roses, so:

Yeah?

Buckethead and Josh Freese are hired guns to me. They didn't show any love or any kind of strong bond to the band and their ideas. They were there like they could have been in any other band. Stinson and Finck for example are two guys that in my view have a strong bond with the idea of ther band, their fans, their songs...do you understand what im trying to say?

No,employees like Robin,Ron,Chris,Frank,Tommy, Richard and Dizzy.

No, that's band members.

No, there employees

Axl won't make them full time members.. Robin, Tommy and Dizzy deserve to be members

No,if there is 1 person who needs to be a full band member than it must be Dizzy. He's in the band since 1990 and has proved well enough what a great musician he is. Robin,Tommy and the rest of the substitutes didn't proved anything so far beside covering the old songs.

the only true member of Guns N Roses is Teddy Zig Zag.  anyone else is just an employees.  Zig Zag = Guns N' Roses

No, just hired hands before a member could be put in place.

As far as I'm concerned, Paul Tobias never really left the band - just as Brain.

I consider Bucket and Brain members, because they toured with GNR and were they for the first show on 01.01.01, While Bucket's playing was awesome, his look was horrible for the band, I wish Brain would have stayed but they did the right thing by getting players who love the band and love the fans being Frank and Ron. 
I do not consider Josh Freese a member being, we dont know if he even contributed anything to what we ve heard.

Didn't you listen to the old demos?

Freese played on TWAT, IRS and CITR 99 versions. Amazing, by the way. Brain re-recorded the songs in the other demos, tho.

Also, Freese wrote the Chinese Democracy riff, from what I remember.

That's true. They got fired as any other employee. Like Matt and Gilbey for example.

I never got around to digging into who's all playing on what. I'd love to see a break down.

Very clever.

Axl himself said how Paul wanted to be just in studio. Never said he left.

Brain is the same.

If you have a hard time to see them as part of the band, just listen to the demos and you'll see what I'm talking about.


I did something like that in other board, I guess. If you interested, I can foward you the link.

I don't know I would have to just buy the Cd and check it out
myself I haven't heard to much of the new guys, I just have to check it out?

I didn't see this response til just now. If you still have this, please forward it. Thanks!