Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Why didn't the song make it to the billboard charts? Did the singles sell well?
It didn't even go on the list of the greatest guitar solos.
Didn't many of GNR fans love estranged? Is it so overproduced? I realized only the "hardcore fans" like it.
Maybe we should have a poll about the song. Reason why people like and dislike it.

For me personally, it is one of the best songs that AXL had written with old GNR.
It had the best guitar and piano solos.
I've listened to so many songs and none had solos better than estranged.

Yet it is so underrated!!

Maybe because it's considered bloated?  :-\

because it's over nine minutes. songs long as this never come real "radio hits".

its more of an album track not a single its the gunners secret epic if it got rammed down everyone throat it may of been a hit plus there isnt a chorus to the song

I think it's a result of two things.

1. The song is pretty long, and not the amped up motivator that Paradise City is.
2. At the time of it's release, GnR was being overshadowed by 'alternative rock'. You really had to live thru it to understand, but bands like Nirvana, Soundgarden, AIC & Smashing Pumpkins were huge from 92-94. And if I'm correct Estranged was one of the latter songs released off UYI, the tides of rock music had shifted by then. I remember only seeing the 'Estranged' video a few times (Something about Axl jumping off a ship) whereas Pearl Jam's Jeremy was being played Non-stop.

I also not realy understant why estranget underrated , its realy beautiful song, every time
I listen to the song the song take my breathe away and make my heart beat very fast .
Estranged one of the most great songs in the world!!!!!!!!!!

It has stood the test of time very well.

I hate people calling songs bloated. Lots of great artists have done similar stuff but for some reason when GnR did it, it was considered bloated. Bohemian Rhapsody is the most bloated song ever but its still considered one of the best ever. I think maybe the video for Estranged, particularly the dolphins part is why its considered bloated. As a single it was released way too late, too years after the albums, to have any real impact. It's a shame because it is one of the best songs ever. Slash's guitar playing is so unprecedented, so unique, so beautiful, so amazing. That dynamic between piano and guitar was so unique. Still, was it a good idea to put too almost completely different songs together like that? At first I wasn't sure but now I understand it. The song is a journey. It should have closed the IUse Your lllusion II album. It sums up the UYI albums and the love them or hate them attitude people have with them. Chances are if you like this song, you love the Illusions. If not, you probably hate them.

I too think it is a wonderful wonderful song. The video is what is terrible and does hurt the reputation of the song....probably should not have done the video. I too also think it should have finished off UYI2. :beer:

Ok you've made a point. I get it.
So in general the public dislike estranged and prefer to listen to JT, Britney and 50Cents.

I cannot imagine why people nowdays listen to untalented singers.

well put, and i totally agree. the newer bands at that time were quickly overshadowing gnr.

estranged was probably the last song released off those albums (if not garden of eden). plus, though november rain was about the same length, november rain was clearly a love song, where estranged is less that, and more like a song of reflection on love and life. that combined with its lack of any repetition (november rain has atleast some vague sense of a chorus) takes away from it ability to be catchy.

Sadly, GNR was one of the only bands of their ilk that could have survived that period.

i totally went over why the love song thing was important:

two things make up whats popular (or whats popular can fill three categories):

1) if its heavy enough for most guys to rock to

or

2) if it has a dancable beat

3) or is a love song

(im really over simplifing, but name some hit songs and youll see it fills these requirements in some way: jungle, november rain, brownstone, patience).

this is also why those other hits are hits, even though they suck.

if your talking pregrunge, than yes, they are basically the only one with heavy radio rotation to this day.

grunge era though, no, a lot of those bands (and the bands they later turned into) are still popular, and some still around as popular as ever.

I think if anythink it's overrated from a hardcore fan point of view on the forums.

As for main stream, it didn't go down well for 2 reasons imo,
Grunge was taken over and stadium bands like GnR were dying out.
And the video is totally overblown and alienated alot of people.

I still think they could have survived grunge itself if they made a tight to the point record after getting the epic UYI thing out of their systems.

Yeah, Estranged is one of the most original and best songs I have ever heard in my life by any band......someway, somehow...it will be more recognised down the road.

they did, it was called the spaghetti incident.

no i think what axl has done is what they shouldve done, change with the times. hope it works out.

maybe they didnt play that song so often in the US but I remember seing the video for estranged at least 200 million times  :P

A cover album like that doesn't count, and that was in the works for a while. And one should'nt compromise themselves to change with the times, but to change within yoursef(ves) and within your terms.

Estranged has to be one of my favorite GNR songs of all time. The lyrics are amazing. Axl did a wonderful job. I also love Slash's solo. I never understood why this song was so underrated myself. But I agree with most people that the video was not all that great and I think music was just changing around that time anyway...

I love Estranged, and I like the fact it wasn't a huge successful smash hit. Songs like Estranged and Coma become fan-owned songs.

I generally don't like videos; at all.

What's so bad about this one to you guys?

Estranged is my favorite Gn'R video. It's failure if you wanna call it that was that it was released at the tail end of the Illusions era and by that time "grunge" was rueling the airwaves and a 9+ minute epic was not gonna do so well. The tieming of it's relase doomed it.

Axl should re-release it ;D

I know it'd be blasphemy for some of you,
but imagine a remix of it, one one of the future albums? (not CD of course)

Yeah, let's see if the new band can play the fuck out of it.

I agree. I think it's very..unique..I really can't describe what I feel when I hear it.I just feel very weird..Like emptiness and sadness..It's one fuckin amazing song,the music,the lyrics,everything.
And maybe the video isn't the best(but i don't dislike it),but there is some awesome scenes (IMO) like when Slash rises from the water..I think the video kinda fits the song (or maybe that's because I'm used to it) really epic..

No no no. No need to further encourage them to continue as the  cover band they are. they've got that down already. let's move on to new stuff. I say scrap all the old songs except for 3(no ballads). Do like VR and tour their own material.

I listened to estranged 1000 times or more...idk... it's my favourite gnr song ever. the solos, the piano, axl's voice, the changes, everything is just perfect.
and...i know it's bold but still... for this song is the best ever. there are lots of really great awesome songs from different genres, but estranged stands out just a little bit. when i die some day... i want this song to be played at my funeral (maybe i'm crazy, but still...) ?::)

I think it has to do with the video more then anything else. I agree with the timing of this single as mentioned as well.

Estranged became more about the video then the song itself which is really fucked. The video IMO represents everything that was wrong with GNR at the time. Completely bloated and so far off the beaten path that GNR started becoming the very thing they first killed off. You know the part in the November Rain video where everybody at the party starting running for there lives when the Rain came and hid under tables and jumped into cakes and shit. The estranged video is like that, but strung out for 9 minutes and turned up to the enth degree in its ridiculousness. Total diservice to the song itself. The song is masterpiece. And it was raped by the video. During something that should have been emotional imagery, we had shit that completely pulls you away from the song. The video is funny more then anything else. Even if it wasn't meant to be.

GNR were onto something with the Don't Cry video. With imagery that I think suited the song great and inspired its own story that went beyong just this song. The shit with Axl 6 feet under, and shivering, as an example. Estranged should have played off that. This was suppose to be a trilogy and it pretty much failed.

I have always really been bitter about this stage of GNR, having lived through it as a hardcore fan. and the handling of Estranged goes right with it.

Thanks for giving me a good answer Buddha.

I'm sure I've seen it at least once but I don't remember it at all.

I disagree completely. I think Estranged played off Don't Cry more so than November Rain ever did. The only problem was that by the time they got around to filming Estranged Axl and Stefanie had split so it made it hard to actually complete the trilogy as Axl had likely intended. To me November Rain is a piece of shit bloated video. Estranged is one of my favorite videos ever. It has some great emotional imagery even if it's a  bit over the top. The scene where axl jumps of the tanker is awesome and the opening scene where the SWAT team is raiding his house is great.   I know  some people think the Dolphins are cheesy but for me they work in the video.  For me Estranged video seems much more conected to the song than the NR video does.

It's a long song, towards the end of the second part of a double album that wasn't released as a single. And it also had a  video of quite embarrassing proportions! Which in fairness, should make it more famous.

I love the end of the song, the beginning I'm not at all fussed on. As good as Slash's solo's are towards the end, he makes the beginning of the song sound like a cheap porno guitar track.

Check this out off of Wikipedia:

For many fans, especially die-hard hard rock fans, the video for "Estranged" was seen as a huge disappointment and represented Axl Rose (who had taken an active role in the production of the band's videos) succumbing to rock star excesses with such self-indulgent images of Axl swimming with dolphins, the costly abandoned ship sequence, and the overly indulgent nature of the band's videos. Many felt the video damaged or outright killed Guns N' Roses' credibility as hard rock superstars and for many, the video marked the moment in which Guns N' Roses jumped the shark creatively.

Some critics have argued that the backlash against the video was not an isolated incident, but instead a flashpoint towards a building backlash against Guns N' Roses. The rise of grunge, anger at Axl Rose's increasingly hostile prima donna behavior, and the excessiveness of the band's previous videos, including "November Rain", led many to use "Estranged" as a flashpoint for attacking the band.

However, among many hardcore Guns N? Roses fans, "Estranged" is regarded as the band?s masterpiece.

I am not going to disagree about the bloated shit, but Estranged was certaintly more then anything else. At least the majority of the video had the band performing the song which allows the viewer to focus in on the song itself. And it succeeded in doing that in spades. The mainstrean understands the beauty of November Rain. But the imagery in Estranged was very distracting, to the point that the casuals (and I am saying this from hearing it first hand as I am sure many of you have as well) say shit in regards to them recollecting Estranged as "Oh is that the one where Axl Jumps off the ship and swims with dolphins."

It pains me (the video) because I love the song so fucking much. The best video of the big UYI songs was by far the YCBM one. GNR still looked and sounded like they were still badasses. It was a reminder and wake up call for mainstream. When I see Estranged, I see the beginning of the end for the old GNR

Wow, there's a ccouple inaccuracies in there, but for the most part it seems correct!

estranged was actually considered one of the worst 100 songs of all time on VH1 (not that vh1 polls mean dick), which sort of gives you a hint as to what many people think about the song/video.  to many, the song is boring and too long, and the video a bit excessive and over the top.  furthermore, as many of you have already said, the video was released at a time when not many bands outside of seattle were warmly welcomed. 

in my opinion, estranged is a wonderfully written song, with great guitar work by slash and great lyrics by axl.  the piano in the song is excellent.  the changes are good.  as far as the video is concerned, i havent seen it in years, probably since its release, but i remember liking the video and thinking it was pretty cool.  estranged may be the current masterpiece of gnr, but i think its place is about to be taken by TWAT.

When Estranged debuted here in Australia, it was a pretty big deal. True, alternative rock was popular, but the Estranged filmclip was made a pretty big deal out of on a local Top 40 countdown show. I still remember sitting there anticipating it with my VCR recorder at the ready.

I think the single charted ok too, didn't go top 10 or anything, but it was in the Top 40 for a few weeks.

Man, those were good times... : ok:

-The song is too long and complex for most people
-video released in late '93

"nuff said.  Great fucking song, btw. If you don't like "Estranged," you don't like GN'R.

It seems the Use Your Illusion albums were viewed as a single release, and some might argue that technically they were.

No matter how good they are, you're not going to have multiple 8+ minute hits from the same release. It's just too much.

November Rain was the one that hit radios first so that was the huge hit, while Estranged was not.

I think Estranged could have been a big hit if (a) it was a single before 'November Rain' or (b) Use Your Illusion II wasn't released until around 1993 and Estranged was the lead single.

Also, it does not help that Estranged was frequently left off the setlists during the tour.

I agree that Estranged is a masterpiece, in fact it is probably my favourite song ever. It has a lot going for it, fantastic lyrics, great guitar, piano and vocals, and real emotion.

I also like the video a lot. I know a lot of people dislike it, but I love all the stuff with the dolphins, the SWAT team, Axl's house etc. Jumping off the ship was a bit over the top.  Axl has said that they really had to change a lot of things because originally Stephanie was going to be in this video as well, so who knows what it could have been.

It was a tumultuous time for the band, and one hell of an expensive video to put out at that time. Amazing song.

Most people are unable to interpret songs...... normally the most simple songs are the ones that are hits, the ones u have to think about and u have actually had to have some type of life experience to appreciate are normally not hits cause Estranged and songs like that are for a cult following who GET IT and its message of hope.

I love the song but I hate the video.. well, not hate, but it's certainly not my favorite.. I dislike the fact that most of the escenes were stunts, I believe the Slash coming out of the water is a stunt and not the real Slash.. so that takes away some of the excitment of the video for me

Estranged the song is amazing as it can be.. a genuine masterpiece.. the lyrics touch me deeply, the Slash solos are beautiful, the part around the middle ("when I find out all the reasons..") always gets to me.. really beautiful

I agree with Buddah about the video though..

I love the live band performance parts of the filmclip the best, that looks like it would've been an awesome gig, and the band looks as cool as ever : ok:

great song and a good video. It's a frewaking powerfull song and I really like it.

As you gyus allready said it's a very long tune and that will never fit with our fucked up radio standards.

this song never fails to give me goosebumps - i find it so moving in so many different ways.  it is a masterpiece no doubt.  the video probably did however alienate the "masses" who were then in the midst of the Seattle sound and the stirrings of Britpop over here in the UK.  people were being encouraged to dislike "rock stars" per se by the more popular bands then. Kurt Cobain slagged off Axl numerous times and he (kurt) was very much king of the castle then.

I like the video - there's bits that I find a little OTT, but fk it - it was their vision at the time, so credit to them for releasing it and doing it their way.

a friend of mine watched the video and the Makin' vid of it when it came out and was in floods of tears afterwards, "one of the most moving things she had ever seen" - and she is really not into GnR at all.  takes all sorts.

Man, I love this song... how can anyone hate it?

"Estranged" is my favorite song of all time, not just by GNR, by any band/musician ever. Although the first time I heard "Estranged" I wasn't a big fan of it. After a few listens, I started to see just how brilliant the song is. The lyrics are Axl's best; I haven't related to a song more than I have that one. It's gotten me through a lot of tough times.

As for the video, I love it. I don't care if it's over the top. Rock N Roll is supposed to be over the top anyway. I was just a little kid during the early 90's, so I didn't know who GNR was back then and I don't remember anything about the grunge movement. But "Estranged" and "November Rain" are my two favorite videos, probably because they are over the top. They're like ... mini-movies.

I don't think Axl cares for his videos anymore, though. Not the UYI ones. During the Eddie Trunk interview, Eddie Trunk talked about how much he loved the videos off UYI, and Axl said he thinks they're just "corny" now.

I think because of being over 9 minutes and the hey day of grunge killed this song.  The video alienated alot of fans to.  I loved the trilogy concept, but it became to bloated by this video.

As far as the song, it is Axl/Slash at there best.  Looking back a swan song for them?

release estranged in the 70's and it's a hit. just like deep purple's "child in time" or golden earring's "radar love" were. great rock songs were the shit back then.

I just hope the Twat Video doesn't have dolphins.  I love Estranged, video ain't so rock n' roll, but I think Axl should have hired an actress to play Steph.  I  might have been sick of another Steph video though

Because Axl Rose played the ballad card one too many times on UYI (November Rain, Don't Cry, Yesterdays). Estranged followed & it didn't stick out as well.
Estranged is the 2nd greatest song (in my opinion) ever made by GNR & its great that they released it. But for credibility with the alt-rock movement in the early 1990s, they should have put out COMA or Civil War instead, complete with videos. Those songs were harder, more "grungiish". It would have boosted sales, perhaps ending UYI with a bang rather than with a whimper that was Estranged.

MNW

I remember the video being on MTV alot. Not as often as NR was, but quite a bit. It seems like it was their last video that got heavy rotation.

I know why it's underrated. Axl swam with dolphins.

I completely agree, the same part does it for me.  Estranged is one of my favorite songs to sing along to. I've always liked the song, but what made it finally click was the piano demo.  It made me appreciate the song a whole lot more.  I haven't watched the video in months, so I'll have to come back and post my thoughts on that when I do.

some guy said he hates the song cos to him, it's too close to home.

I don't think it's so underrated tho.

For all the great aspects of Estranged (guitar parts etc) the song does come across as too long. Towards the end it goes on for about one section too many. Maybe if they had spent and extra five years making the UYI albums it would have hit home that Estranged needed trimming back by a few minutes? :hihi:

On a positive note. Estranged is one of the highlights of the UYI albums? :beer:


I have sometimes wondered why SCOM was made shorter for the video version? i'm so used to hearing the AFD version, that on the few occasions that SCOM gets played on the television it catches me out by sounding different  :peace:

Estranged is one of my favourites songs ever. I still rememeber when i first heard it. i was 28.
i don't know if it's underrated, don't really care. some don't want to hear it cause it's a very complex song. they have no idea what they are missing.