Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Based on the new songs that we've heard so far (the leaks, the few other songs we have heard live, etc.), what would the reaction be to this music coming out from this band, if this was an unknown band??  I mean what if Guns N' Roses had never existed until now and this was going to be their first album... how would the general public\music fans react to this music??  Would everyone here still like the music as much as they do now, if this was a debut album??  Could it even be possible to create the kind of response that Appetite had created almost 20 years ago??  Would this music stand out to other music fans, compared to the other music that is released these days, without the past history of the GNR name??  Don't even think about the age of Axl or that he was much younger before or Slash or anyone else, I want opinions strictly based upon this new bands music.  Just imagine that this is a "normal" new band, that many people don't know about yet.  Of course we don't know all of the songs from CD yet, but I just wanted to hear some opinions based on the songs we know.  I'm trying to put in perspective how great or how poor these songs are, without the name Guns N' Roses, as we know it today.  Well, I was thinking about this a couple of days ago and I hope I explained my question well enough and any responses to it are appreciated.

Honestly, I think it would go over very well, and that's not just me being a GnR fanboy.  Stuff like Madagascar and The Blues is excellent, and I think the press and music fans would take notice.

I think it's unfair to judge demos and live performances. The demos are very promising, though. The Blues, Madagascar and some other new tracks have great promise also. I think this album either has the potential to be a brilliant fusion of different and unique musical stylings or it will be entirely misunderstood and fall flat on its face - I'm very desperately hoping for the former to happen (and I think it will). I think at first people will be harsh and critics will be tough on it for obvious reasons, but ten years down the road people will look back and realize it was a masterpiece and people were just comparing it too much to the original band's output.

I love GNR but even I think the new demos/leaks/concert recordings suck monkey balls. Sure it's decent compared to everything else that's out today but it pales in comparison to anything GNR has put out in the past. Quite simply these leaks/demos/concert recordings are not up to the high standards of the name 'GNR' or 'Guns N' Roses'. If the record with these leaks/demos/concert recordings came out today by another band I would toss them in the same group as Good Charlotte, Crossfade, Simple Plan, Papa Roach, Chevelle, Jimmy Eat World, Offspring, Lost Prophets, etc.

I love these songs regardless. They are very amazing tunes, i loved them from the first time I  heard them. Everybody I've shown that don't know there is a new Guns N' Roses were blown away. There hasn't been one person I've shown that wasn't impressed. There really great tunes and the final product is going to be earth-shattering.

If Axl Rose had never existed before and came out with a debute album it would blow away everything out there right now simply because he would be the most unique singer anyone has ever heard.

That is the main reason GnR hit it big in the first place.  Its all about axls emotive singing style that makes guns n roses what it is.

When he puts his vocal on a piece of music it turns that song into something magical. 

Axl Rose has the X factor. Plus, the new bands music is tight.  There is no band out there right now with this kind of diversity and depth. 

I really cant wait to hear the final product, I just know it is gonna blow everybody away. :yes: : ok: :peace:

if this was their debute album/tour people would be laughin at them

45 year old wigger vocal with a hairy goth guitar player, a 40 year old punk at the bass....

rotfl.

I played a few people some of the new songs mixed in with the old songs, so when a new song would come on ie/ better, they ll be like wtf is this, im like a new song, then i ll hear why isnt that played on the radio, then i ll explain how it hasnt been actually released, then an old song or 2 would play then another new song, again same reaction.  I think people need to hear the new music. will it be as popular, idk, but based on what we have heard so far, id say GNR has a huge upside.

i think it wouldnt matter if it ws gnr or not as long as it was marketed in the right way.
i def think the new gnr are pop rock music.....some may disagree but i think this stuff is gonna be the top of the rock chart.

it might have been different if it wasnt gnr, a lot of people are closed minded and already decided axl is a dick and cd is shite, which is a shame!

I think I made myself clear when I said, "Based strictly on the music, not his age."  So you think the music is laughable as well??  Why are in a forum then for the new Guns N' Roses??  That doesn't make any sense.

Axl's voice is good enough for any new listener to take notice.

Although a music fan, I wasn't a fan, I mean like the fan who'd frequent a fan site lets alone posting there, of any particular band before I heard chinese democracy. so, go figure. : ok:

the music is definetly better"" then what's ou there now.. SOme songs hit home like better twat  but others like cd, oh my god, silkworms, riyad ,and citr for me could just be anyone's material.. CD should do good..

You dont have to go all offensive. :P Axl Rose doesnt need a pimple-face geek defending him.

I am here because of the music. the statement was just humor, and everybody else on this forum took it that way. :peace:

It would be kind of naive to believe his age won't play part in how success in the mainstream will be, we all know they don't hire fat women who aren't marketable often.. Same goes for age, so no unless you poked everyone's eyews out then there's no way around it

Whatever as the thread starter has defined it, this thread is sorely about the music and not about other factors.

Try to see it as a band you found out of the blue.

The New Material is really good, keekee, there is no other music out there right now that sounds anything like it really....all the rock is more metallica sounding  (not that its bad) but it all sounds the same after a while and america has been invaded by rap for far too long time frame....so the new GNR material is comparable to Something really masterful like Led Zep 4 and Beatles white album keekee....its axls rock n roll manifesto...keekee...and I like it as much as AFD which used to be my fav cd.

Well said! ? : ok: The only exception I think is "Better". That song blew me away. This is the only song i've heard that is worthy of the name GUNS N' ROSES. Other than that, The new songs are pretty weak. But I think all GN'R fans will give them a chance. But Axl will have to Work his ass off to get new people to like CD.

what does this keeeeekeeeeeeee thing mean?! :confused:

She's just a weirdo :yes:

I think the finished product of all the songs will kick ass compared to any live versions we've heard. We know axl's voice will be on top of its game on the recordings. I kinda wondered if the delay of the album over the past couple years was because of Axl rerecording his voice a lot until he got it in shape, but I know I am prolly wrong.

strange to say although I love most of the new songs, I'm not a big fan of the blues...which seems to be the fav new song of every fan of the old band here.


It's like hehe. no sister keke is not a weirdo. She's just not a boringass stereotyped charactor, that's all.

Really? I think the same of Madagascar. Being a fan of the old and new, I don't feel it that much :-\

Based on the demos, there is potencial. BUT we need to hear the final studio versions now. It's always difficult to judge demos from... 1999 or 2000...


Slash still remains untouchable.

I have no doubt in the success...keekee...it will be as great as beatles white album and led zep 4,  :smoking:

A pimple faced geek?? Hahaha, you're an idiot.

EDIT:  I don't think I was being DEFENSIVE AND therefore I DIDN'T DEFEND HIM!! I just asked a simple question, without any negative remarks towards you.  You started that shit.  But you have to live with yourself everyday, so you're the one who has to suffer, not me. Now back on topic fucker.

There is a still something missing for me, the bluesy element, the Slash genius on guitar. It IS missing.
Really, where is the bluesy element? This is probably the biggest musical loss...
I have to say that in term of emotion, the new songs (or demos) don't give me the same emotion I had when I was a kid with the old band...
I'm bored of the shred too, it ain't genious to play 200 notes per seconds like a machine, the real genious is to play the right note at the right time on the right tone like Mr Slash, Mr Knopfler, Mr Gilmour, or Mr Page. Here is the difference.... There is no "genious" in the newGNR guitar playing, at least not on the demos.

When I first time heard Better (the ~1:06 clip) I laughed out loud. When I do that it's not a good sign & if I hadn't force fed it to me I'd hate it. I think that says it [;

As I said numerous times, I'm not really a fan of "Better" either... the only good thing is the Outro. But the rest of the song sounds too
"emo/nu-metallish" for me. Just like a cross between Good Charlotte and NIN.

The point of the thread wasn't to compare it with the old band.  Maybe you're letting that influence your opinion of the new music too much, because the songs are pretty awesome IMO.

I thought NIN was "indus"?? ???


I've said it before, CD will hopefully be for GN'R what Achtung Baby was for U2. Something completely new, something fresh, something people will appreciate years and years after its release.



/jarmo

Achtung Baby is a great album for sure... but maybe, you know maybe we are too "fan" to be fair and honnest about the demos.
For me the biggest proof to see if the record is that good will be the record sales. The people will judge it.

Achtung baby sold around 15 million copies and was a phenomenal success. The biggest single was "One". Good luck for ChiDem.
ChiDEm will need a Monster Hit, not just "good songs", but at least one Monster Hit.

Stop talking about sales as proof of quality.

It's not 1991 anymore. Albums don't sell like they used to thanks to mp3s and Itunes.



/jarmo

Better and IRS will most likely be the most popular songs to non-gnr rock fans, like november rain and welcome to the jungle were to mainstream rock listeners.....the deeper songs or raunchier new ones will be more appreciated by the hardcore GNR fans...keekee....but Im already addicted to IRS, CD and Better :hihi:....keekee I just wish there were more leaks to hear ;)

Monster hits are disgusting. They get over played to the point where people hate the song. And sometimes the public will try to define a band by that one monster hit. It's annoying to say the least.

I prefer the leaks we've heard so far over anything played on the radio today. They're far more superior - song writing  wise, in my opinion. I guess I'm biased.

The fact you actually use "rotfl" makes your opinion worthless.

And it's sad that you judge music on the age and looks of the people in the band.

What the fuck are you doing here? :rofl: :beer:(Not that I agree with you stand on useing lol's or rotfl abreviations :hihi:)

Personally I haven't bothered to listen to any of the new songs in months other than Madagascar which I really like. To be honest none of the new songs(Better included) are anything special and in my opinion are all quite average at best.? I really want CD to be great but form what I've heard so far I have no reason to believ it will be. Now having said all that I agree with whoever it was that said it's not really fair to judge these songs based on live recordings or demos.

 Jarmo: Chinese Democracy is already to Guns N' Roses what Achtung Baby was to U2. the only thing is we don't know the outcome/fallout of CD will be yet. Hopefully it's "Achtung Baby positive". If that's the case CD will blow the doors off people.

No but album sales are a part of the equation. A great album is more likely to have sustained albums sales. Strong single after strong single will boost album sales. Obviously albums sales have never been a  good gage for the quality of the album but they do play a  part.  Great albums eventually sell alot or at the very least continue to sell long after their release. Shit albums may sell well right at the start and then plateau completely. I think you can tell alot from album sales but only years down the road when you can see how many units continue to move. Even in the era of itunes and mp3's and illegal downloading.

I agree. Better and TWAT will be great on the album, IRS is a good song, too, but the rest (we've heard so far) is very mediocre, even comparing to today's market. And Silkworms, Riyadh and CITR are horrible songs.

But the album and the band would do well if it was a completely unknown and new band since Axl is Axl (I mean his personality, voice and creativity) and some of the music is very great. (And we wouldn't know the classic band to compare with ?:-X)

The UYI twins were GN'R's Achtung Baby. And as far as I know industrial elements and 80s power ballads aren't fresh anymore.

Not quit. Yes the Illusion albums were an evolution from AFD but they weren't a complete overhaul of the bands style, sound, "message" or image. Without the vocals Achtung Baby sounded like a  completely different band. the Illusion albums still sounded very much like Guns N' Roses.

It is really really hard to know ... as soon as we haven't heard this album yet ...
When you listen a bunch of songs together they take a complete diferent form, and that is why we call it " ALBUM " ... It's a collection of diferent songs that complement each other and that's also what makes and album be or not what it will be remenber in the future.

Anyway here is what I think:

A NEW BAND => could be really sucessed with "BETTER" and "MADAGASCAR". These 2 new songs are very inteligentes and both have a ... special moment ( In Better is the " I never wanted ... " part , and in Maddy is the Mixed lines part ). - ?BUT THIS IS GNR, so - They will make some noise for sure ...

A New Band => could be sucessed also with "THE BLUES" as a hit, not a big, but a good hit. - GNR - would do a good noise because GNR fans loves November Rain and it reminds us of it a little.

"T.W.A.T." => we need to hear the final version ... we have heard 3 versions ( The 99', the 02' and the live 06' ... the 06' sounds very diferent and much better than the others , so ... let's wait and see )

"CHINESE DEMOCRACY", "I.R.S." => CD in the live 06' has the most perfect intro ... but , the song isn't THAT ALL ... and I.R.S. a good song , not much ... they wouldn't be good sucessed if a band released them as their first SINGLE ( I Mean, a new ) , - GNR - Could be ... but i prefer them as some normal tracks, not the MAIN tracks ...

"Rhiad and the Bedouins" , "Oh My God" and "Silkworms" => Rhiad , is also a good song, a little bit worse than CD and IRS. Oh My god is a bad track , but wouldn't get much ... it's easy to see how it is not even remenberd when you ask to a not die hard fan like us about this song, and he can't even remenber of this song ... BUT I STILL HEAR IT ... The Last and yeah ... the worst Silkworms ... , it sucks ... why ?? Because it is a stupid song without any sense, only a lot of noise and with AXL saying some nonsense.

But lets wait and hear the final tracks, at this point it's only speculation unffortunetly ( more than 7 years of speculation :( )

Yes, for the most part. "November Rain," "Don't Cry," and "Estranged" all seem like a pretty different sound to me. But some of the so-called filler songs definitely sound like AFD. In fact, I think "You Could Be Mine" is probably their most kickass song ever. I just wish Axl had actually recorded the part that he sings live ("...with your ass in the air!"). You're right though, UYI was not a complete transition.

Initially what is going to happen, is mainstream kids are gonna say things like, "This band sounds different then the original", "Axls fat man".
The typical negative ignorant shit.

After a single/video or two SINK in, people are gonna start coming around...I dont care if they use The Blues, Better, Madagascar,IRS or new material...By the
4th single, it will be mainly accepted as a great album thats better than UYI but not quite comparable to Appetite.

CD will have very strong opening sales, and will be a top 10 album for a year or two.

Anyone who thinks the album will flop based on the material we've already heard is a fool and I cannot respect your opinion.

I'm sure if they ever release this song in studio, it will be way better. Don't judge it from a crappy mix like in RIR3... Also, I bet they re-worked the song.

Same for Rhiad. I think people judge it by the quality of the bootlegs... Not fair, IMO. It's a kick ass song, with awesome riffs and amazing drums.

Well personally I think it's really neive to think this album will be in the top ten for a year or two. Seriously top ten for 52 plus weeks? I don't think so no matter how good it is. There's no way. It's not the return of The Beatles. ?And as for not respecting peoples opinions, why the hell not? Can't you respect somthing without agreeing with it?

Top 10 for a year or two? That doesn't happen nowadays. It just doesn't. CD will open up with very good sales just based on the die-hard fans buying it. After that, eventually the mainstream public will buy it like you said. That will keep it in the top 10 perhaps for a few months. But not for a year or two. I'd love it if I were proven wrong on this, but trends indicate otherwise. Heck, it might even end up selling HUGE to start and then falling off like every other album out there. If they release a killer first single, then it won't matter how ignorant people are. If they enjoy how it sounds, they'll buy it.

Well I havent paid too much attention to the billboard charts over the last few years..Looking on there now though, I see Nickleback at #10 and they've
been on the charts for 48 weeks selling only approx 3 million.. A few others are in the top 20 and have been out for a year or so.

Whats going to make this album successful, is the seemingly never ending release of quality singles, and the gradual acceptance of this "new" band...I cannot
see this album selling millions the first few months (which it will) then being labelled as all hype and suddenly falling into obscurity.

Also remember they will touring during this first yr and there's going to be an onslaught of media reports and articles coming up real
soon..The exposure is going to be huge to say the least.

That's how I feel. I think that how much the label and the band support the album will make all the difference in the world.

If the leaks and songs we've heard live are any indication of the new album as a whole, I don't think it will be this huge success that some of you think it will be.  I agree with the poster that stated that Better is the only song that measures up to the old GNR material.  And, I agree with the poster that said that there is something very tangibly missing in the guitar playing.  The guitar on the demos/live tracks is boring and meaningless to me.  It's emotionless.  The new music misses that Slash bluesy mastery for sure.  I think if you gave IRS to Slash and asked him to rework it, it would be phenominal.

I'm sure I'm in the minority around these parts, but you can't replace a wold class guitar genius with session and  studio musicians and a guy who plays 200 notes a second without emotion.  I think the demos show you why.

I personally think the guitar solos on The Blues and Better have great melody and sound really cool.But ya, so far the songs have lacked that slash and izzy like bluesy groove that they turned into badass rock songs, BUT this is a new GNR and they are going for something a little different I think, so who knows how it will  exactly turn out.

TWAT solo has no emotion? It needs Slash? OMG, I guess I don't know the real meaning of emotion and feeling.. :nervous:

LOL, I actually think some of the solos so far sound kinda slash like, they have that kinda melody and stuff. I mean their not 2 mins long and completely like him, but who cares. I've heard so many good guitar solos that don't sound anything like slash haha, but dont get me wrong, slash is the shit.

Not only IRS, but Slash would also do a fantastic job on the TWAT outro for sure... 1st solo (Robin) is great, but on the second solo (outro) played by Buckethead, Slash would DESTROY him. Just hear the Outros of Paradise City, November Rain or Locomotive (2nd part with the wah-wah), hear Slash play... give him the TWAT instrumental and let him write, create and play his own guitar melodies... I'm sure he would create something unique that would bring that song to another dimension...

Sorry, but that made me laugh  ;D Slash would be nowhere near as good as Buckethead on There Was A Time, please don't generalize Buckets Solos, just because you have a problem with his shredding ability... and for I.R.S, I don't think Slash could come up with something better than for example Robin in this song, it's just not his style (btw, I just love Fincks Solo, it maybe sounds crazy, but to me, it almost gives the song a kind of Salsa-Samba-Rock Feeling).

Finck is good on the demos. But Buckethead.... God... "emotionless" must be his real name! :no:

You fail to feel the emotion on Bucket's solo. Maybe you should change your name then...

I can't fail on something that doesn't exist.
I can't hear something that doesn't exist.
I can't feel something that doesn't exist.

Seems like you're still failing.

somebody shoot this poor bastard (Nesquick).....did your mother not love you enough? ::)

WTF? stop insulting my mother. She has nothing to do with the topic.

No need to be that..... Mean.

He just likes repeating himself year after year after year.....



/jarmo

Leave the mothers out of it!

I agree with Nesquick. None of the new guitar work other than the slow groovy one at the end of Better do a damn thing for me. Is it Robin who does the slow one at the end of Better? That's a cool little solo but every other solo on every other new song basically sounds average at best. nothing memorable in them at all. There's no guitar work on any of the new songs solo or not that jumps out at me and makes me think "wow! this kicks ass" That's my opinion.

yes it's Robin, he saves his own song, lol. Don't forget the 1st TWAT solo also (also Robin). It's good.
Apart of that, All the Buckethead solos are catastrophy. Someone should force him to listen to David Gilmour, Mark Knopfler or Slash, he would learn how to put a minimum of emotion in his playing. I'm afraid he ruins the record. I'm pretty nervous and worried about that. I'm afraid people say "arrrghhh that shred sounds horrible this record is shit" and then CD blows... I really hope Axl knows what he is doing there. I hope the Buckethead's contribution will be extremely limited. He is the one who can completely ruin the record and destroy a decade of hard working on this album.

I've said everything I had to say about this. No Buckethead whining bashing anymore. I'm tired of that.
These are my last words on that. And I know it will probably make lots of people very happy! (lol)

Good night.

yeah   numerous times :hihi:

YOu are tired of it? :hihi:  i guess everyone else was for the last two years allready anyways...


you`re right about that...


you know everyone`s entitled to their opinion, but to think bucket`s contribution will do any harm to the succes of the record is simply paranoid... although i prefer robin`s solos  (he just rocks :hihi:) i notice that most people prefer the ones bucket created (which are awesome as well)....  you seem to ignore that fact...

but let`s keep it at that.....  until you write your first album review at least :hihi:

I think it would be even easier if it would be a debut album, at least as far as the press goes.

Everyone compares nu-gnr to the old one.

Yeah it's like the ege is more significant than bono in my opinion, I guess. And Achtung is no match for cd. :hihi:

Lipfel put it well. : ok:
I can see IRS being the most copied song by guitar kids of the early 21st century.
Yep, IRS will make a modern day stairway to heaven.
Althought disimilar in aspect, the song has a feel of prayer, same to stairway. 

Better will come across as maybe a Smells Like Teen Spirit of today.

I don't know about that. Many people feel The Edge is more significant than Bono and that's cool but what the hell is an "ege"? :rofl:

As for the IRS and Better comparisons......  let's try and keep the predictions somewhat realistic. IRS the next Stairway to Heaven? C'mon. Better to change the musical landscape the way Teen Spirit did?  Where are these expectations coming from and how do yo guys justify them? there doesn't seem to be any common sense attatched to many of these comments.  Alot of you are setting yourselvess up for disapointment.

that's how an expert would spell his name, perhaps. :P



I don't think a song would change a scene. The album Nevermind might have done that in a sort but not the song.
I refer to teenspirit because some people still don't see the over-the-edge bit as of a crucial significance to the better song.


:headscratch: How come we can be disappointed after having felt the damn songs already? unrealistic.
and Common sense?
Instead, use your own ears. Listen to your heart rather than quibbling of the swollen head.
No word would tell it better. If not, so be it. these songs are not for you.

I wonder
How long has it been since you were touched by a piece of music last?   
When was the last time you found yourself bouncing or vibrating with music or even shedding tears of delight? Or Is there anything that goes to your heart at all, other than souvenirs of the good old days?

Remember the sensibility you used to have when you were still pimple faced.

Ummmm... nope. SLTS was never done before in mainstream music. Better is a great and original song, but not groundbreaking.

Haha...Holy shit!!!!ppbebe is one tough fucker.... :yes: anyway, the songs that give me an emotional high are ..BETTER....MADAGASCAR....THE BLUES....and, CATHER IN THE RYE.....yup...almost all of them....I do like em"

Funny.. I think all the doubts were nowhere in sight after the demos... I saw people freakin out with the quality of not only Axl's voice, but also the instrumental of TWAT and Better. Seems like it had time enough to people be back with the negative shit.

People like ppbebe and me will be pleased with the new album. Maybe not ALL of the songs, but the majority. And that's because we already know how good half of the album is gonna be.. We like the people in the band.. We're cool with the musical direction.

February, 2006. When I listened to IRS demo in full stereo and cristal quality. I remember like a day before the leak we were talkin about trying to listen to some stuff on that crappy recording of the song... I was so amazed to finally listen to this song that... But what really touched my soul was what came right after..
   
When I first heard the Better clip. The intro sounded very weird, I thought it was fake.. But when Axl started to sing "the hardest part this troubled heart" I was crying like a baby. :hihi:

Fuckin' awesome song. It was a day that I'll never forget... I had like 30 people talkin' to me at the same time on msn, lol. :D

i personally don't think the songs heard so far will prove to be the best on the album-- or, at least, the most provocative. that said, i think the general public would be more open to this music than many people on this board-- because the point is no longer the bluesy element or the slash element. its axl's childhood (elton, queen, zep etc) meeting up with the stuff he found in the 80s and 1990s (nin, nirvana, u2 etc). not a lick of aerosmith in sight. this won't be a 'guitar hero record' like appetite and that bothers a lot of people here. but i'd rather listen to a record like the new yeah yeah yeahs than a snakepit or uh velvet revolver album or some other album where the emphasis ... at least guitar wise... is on guitar solos or whatever... different ways of shaping sound, is all. 
i like a lot of the music coming out nowadays (jack white and radiohead especially) but i don't listen to most of what's popular and selling, so for all i know songs like madagascar and better are on the radio every five minutes. to me, tho, they are distinct, memorable, and moving-- the same impact on me that estranged and don't damn me had fifteen years ago.
i really don't think we've seen the best tho. i don't think rolling stone heard the best in '99 (i think they heard what we've heard). not by a long shot. i really don't.

I LOVE the new stuff and think it's miles ahead of their previous work. BUT we haven't heard the singles off the album yet (as Axl has said) - we've heard the "Estranged", but not the "November Rain". On the basis SOLELY of what I have heard I think we would have a great album lacking in killer hits.

From what I've heard so far, I like.  It will be interesting to see if Fortus and Finck are unique enough to be recognized on the album, because you know BH is.  : ok:

Holy shit ... are you trying to start something?  That's antagonistic if ever I heard.  You KNOW that's not true.  As we all know, GnR was the sum of it's parts.

Axl's new band are making GREAT music.  But it's not phenomenal by any means.  I'm holding judgment on the stuff til the tunes come out on CD.

Finck and Fortus are both amazing guitarist and I'm amazed by all the people that bash finck and Buckethead's emotion.
You can't play blues music and not be emotional about it. you can't fake that. you can be a bad guitar player and a bad blues player. Bucketheads style is not a emotional style but the fuckin guy plays that guitar and you can feel it.

TWAT outro jam is Guns N' Roses. Finck and Bucket are superb.

We've all had these huge discussions about if and how much the album will sell, but this thread has brought up something more interesting to me: the respect issue.

Based on the demos we've heard, I'd have to say that I'm going to be heavily disappointed if Robin, Richard and Ron don't get covers of Guitar World and so on. That'd be nice to see them get respect for their hard work.

Dude, please tell us your 3 guitarist theory you explained on Sp1at. I'm interested to see the reaction.

I partially agree with you but......the lead singer of ANY band is the most important component of that band. A voice representing the rest of the music....It is a lead guitarists wet dream to find a singer with a voice and stage presence. Don't believe me.....ask a guitar player...any guitar player.....the rest of the band is important also but someone like a drummer is very expendable unless he/she is lights out.......and this was brought to my attention a long time ago from people who are not big GNR fans....any musician who says otherwise is lying to your face brother....... :peace:

I play guitar and I would give both of my nuts to have a singer that was comparable to axl rose, not just singing but the whole package, a ligitimate frontman. they don't exist and if they do their as fucked up as axl.

Ha! Piss off with that last comment. yeah because I don't have these over the top expectations of CD or over the top appreciating for the new songs I can't feel music or I've never been moved by music. ::)  What I was getting at here was comparing the new songs to things like Stairway to heaven and Teen Spirit is pretty ridiculous. I can tell you right now that Smells Like Teen Spirit is as popular in the bars today as it was when it was released. Better will never reach those heights. Not even close. Stairway to Heaven is a legendary classic(though I find it boreing) so comparing IRS to it is insane. That's what i'm getting at in terms of people's over the top expectations. If you personally love it than so be it but would it not sound ridiculous to you if I were to say that said song was the next Stairway? hell yes it would and I'd be called on it. Your personal opinion doesn't means songs are "the next" whatever songs you choose to compare it to.

 I know some of you love these new songs and I think they're good but personally for me none of these songs have a lasting quality to them. They're songs of the moment and that's it. Once CD is out I think this songs will be hard prssed to be remebered ten years down the road. Love'em all you want but I don't love them so don't be questioning my ability to feel or be moved by music because I don't share the sme enthusiasm for these specific songs. If that was indeed what you were insinuating.

I know some of you love these new songs and I think they're good but personally for me none of these songs have a lasting quality to them. They're songs of the moment and that's it. Once CD is out I think this songs will be hard prssed to be remebered ten years down the road.
None of us can speak about what will be remembered 10 years from now. There seems to be a good amount of people who do see the leaks as being able to stand the test of time though.

Yup... : ok:

A lead singer is the most recognizable member of a band, not the most important - there is a difference. People may not react to the musicians in the same way that they do to a vocalist, but that doesn't mean that they are interchangeable.

Anyone who thinks that drummers are expendable hasn't heard good drummers. A singer might be what you recognize, but a good drummer is what makes your hips move. Why do you think Led Zeppelin broke up after Bonham died?

Well, Robert Plant has said many times he thought it would have been disrespectful to John Bonham to replace him and continue on as Led Zepplin when Led Zepplin was the 4 of them. They easily could have done so and made a lot of money, I admire him though for having such a high level of integrity about the whole thing.

Didn't the Who once proclaim..."It's the singer not the song that makes the music move along." I trust their take on rock and roll. : ok: I too believe it is much easier to find drummers, bassists and guitar players than an original lead singer with distinctive voice, songwriting ability, and charisma. Axl would have been a star with or without the original Gnr. Maybe not as big as he was, but definitely more high profile than say Slash or Izzy if they never would have met Axl. As for Duff and Popcorn, just along for the ride. Just my opinion. :-\

All the band members are important....but a drummer is expendable UNLESS HE IS LIGHTS OUT......In other words, if your drummer is an asshole, or is unreliable at times or has a drug issue...another drummer is easier to find than a guitarist or singer. But the vocalist is the most important part dude....I know what you are saying but like I said....ask a guitarist....or the guitarist above who completely agreed with me...... :peace:

There's no way to know that.


They were just as involved and vital as the rest in making AFD.

It's really obnoxious when people give the lead singer the quarterback treatment. He's important, but it's a team, which means every member is valuable. ?Go back and listen to the songs.

I have to agree with you here. I really do like alot of the new members, but the old band was truly great too. To just discount them based on your love of Axl would just be wrong.

I am not doing that....read my post again. It is not my "love" for Axl. It is an objective view of talent. Please spare me the Duff and Popcorn contributed the same as Axl to their success....please. ::) Any band with Axl, Slash, and Izzy, no matter who the bass and drums were, was going to be phenomenal. Those three made Gnr in to what they were. Axl was a good 50% responsible for their mass appeal. He was the voice...and a VERY UNIQUE voice at that. Axl 50% of the Gnr brand...the music was the other 50%. From a public persona stanpoint, you could boil it down to Axl/Slash. It cracks me up when someone like Nesquick says fans want Duff-nobody on a general level knows who fucking Duff is! The public, not hardcore fans, know Gnr by that voice and by the signature riffs. Yes, it takes a team effort but certain players are the leaders and take the team to the next level. ;)

Take the earplugs out please.  Buckethead's TWAT outro is perfect.  I know that it must bother you that the hated Buckethead has recorded a great solo that's full of emotion and that your complaints about him being only a shredder were proven false.  Your endless complaining about shredding is so old.  Slash had some solos that were reminiscent of Buckethead's on IRS.  Like his short, fast solos on songs like Garden Of Eden or Perfect Crime they weren't shredding but they're short solos where Slash plays fast that aren't that emotional either.  They sound cool, they fit the songs, but they aren't dripping with emotion.  Buckethead's solo on IRS fits the song and the moment very well.  You need to get over it, Buckethead's solos will be on there and you're not going to change anyone's opinion by continuing to say the exact same thing over and over again

I am a guitarist. So, acording to your theory, if Axl was in a band, it wouldn't matter what the skill level of the other members was, because he is the most important part? In any case, the most important part of any band is the person who writes quality songs. Pete Townsend wrote almost everything that the Who ever recorded - Roger Daltrey barely wrote at all - do you think Townsend is more replaceable than Daltrey? On the other hand, David Coverdale replaced Ian Gillan in Deep Purple, Dio replaced Ozzy in Sabbath, Bruce Dickinson replaced Paul Dianno in Iron Maiden, and probably most famously, Brian Johnson repaced Bon Scott in AC/DC.

Point #2- a new guitar player or singer is usually easier to find than a drummer because good drummers are hard to come by and generally in demand. If you had been in bands, you would know that. Drums are not the attractive instrument to learn because they take more coordination, even at rudimentary levels, than any other instrument in a rock band(all things being equal), consequently there are a lot less drummers around, nevermind talented ones.

Bottom line, you really can't generalize these things because any quality band has individual strong points.

Generally people recognize a band mostly by the singer. But. It's not because te singers would be so out-of-the-world talented but cause people know jack shit about music. They don't understand it all. They're functionally deaf. Some of them (most of them?  :nervous:) can't even tell which instrument plays what. They hear it as a mess. But they can understand that the vocalist sings about his tortured soul, past loves, gettin' high etc. And they can reproduce the vocals without any musical knowledge, they can sing it in the bathroom, in the toilet, in the streets. (Well, it'll be out-of-tone as hell, but won't hear it.) They can't do it with an instrument.

Those people who overestimate the importance of the singers should listen to some opera and classical music. Who was the genius: Mozart who wrote everything (instrumental pieces or music & vocals), or the actual primadonna? Most lead singers don't have any clue about music and know some chords at best so they need musicians to write songs or to explore their (singers...) primitive ideas into real songs.

yeah.... that`s madagas`point : ok:     that`s why axl was so important to gnr?s succes...

I see what you're saying but I am a singer and have played with bands and all of that shit...I know plenty of guitar players....I didn't say the other musicians were not important....you are taking it WWWWAAAAYYYY to literally bro. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten asked to join a band because either they hated their singer or didn't have one and they can't FIND anyone else to fit the bill. But a drummer.....forget about it.....they ask around for 2 days and have 7 trying out for the band.....I can't play a guitar ( I wish that I could) but I am very aware of the talent it takes to be a good one....believe me. They are NOT easy to find either. There is a lot of chemistry that has to be involved..... :peace:

That was my point although I think Axl has fairly good songwriting skills as well.

I don't think so since he can't write songs alone. One (NR) takes 8 years for him - without the magic solos.  : ok:

Axl is a genius but he needs others to write the music.

Oh absolutely.. : ok:....anyone who disagrees is just looking for a reaction.....or they love "Creed" or something.....? :hihi:

sadly enough this world is full of people that judge in this way..

Music - yes....for the most part....Lyrics - absolutely not.....he needs NO help there.

I wouldn't deny that for a second. If anything, I would say that the songwriting team of Axl/Izzy is what was so essential to the early GNR success - a great singer with really strong melodic skills, and knowledge of piano, and a roots rock/punk guitar player with a great mind for riffs. Slash is a good player, but his contribution to the band's success has more to do with his image and stage presence than his playing.

Btw, to the people who are trying to make this another Slash/Buckethead debate, do us all a favor and get bent. It's so damn boring at this point.

You're smoking crack. The SCOM and NR solos/riffs are both found in the top 20 of almost every "greatest guitar" type poll out there. He might not have been a virtuoso type, but he may be one of the all-time greats at writing catchy/memorable guitar licks.

SCOM officially put Guns on the map, and it was that intro he played.......not his image or stage presence, that attracted people to the song.

Based on what we have heard so far...Chinese Democracy will kick some serious arses. : ok:

Riiight - it was the intro that sold the song, not the vocal melody, chorus, etc. It was the total package, and most importantly, the video that turned people onto the song. Maybe you should put the pipe down first. I'm not putting the guy(Slash) down - he has played some great stuff. I'm not about to get sucked into a debate about anything else, except that polls are a bunch of crap, as we all know, so don't waste your time quoting them to me.

The vocal and the melody were great on the song, but I will bet you even money that if you took a poll of a hundred random people and asked them what stood out most in the song / what is the most memorable part that more than half would say the guitar. Say what you want about polls but that intro is universally regarded as one of the best ever written.

For you to say that Slash's contributions to the band were more about look and image than his playing on Appetite and the Illusions might be the most outrageous thing ever posted on this board.

The post 2002 era of GNR has made many members of the board forget that it is possible to both look like the epitome of a rockstar and play like one.

And I sure hope your logic of a music video selling a song is not gospel otherwise this incarnation of the band is bound to crash and burn. Here I thought it was what comes out of the instruments that really matters.  :confused:

from what I've heard,  axl's sweet mug on the video did the wonder. :-\
But lets stop beating the dead horse here.


Nor does your personal opinion mean songs are not "the next" whatever songs others choose to compare them to. : ok:

As if I'd bring up some unknown songs so that few people here would recognize them.

You've been on about "expectations" but what expectations?
I've already heard the songs that are beyond my expectations although leeked or live recordings. Yep the final cuts are very much anticipated.
If it's about the mass reaction, it depends on the listening public and the promotion. The songs may well reach those "heights" of popularity and I'd say likely as not but that's not my point. 

So You don't dig Stairway no more than IRS. Sure enough.
My focus is on the way each song is loved and appreciated by the people who are not like you.
As this thread is asking how we think someone with no previous knowledge on gnr would take the new songs surfaced so far. I thought my previous post made it abundantly clear.

And I note that I come to think that stairway appealed to the rock fans of the 70s along the similar lines that IRS does and will do to us. IRS has a note of prayer, earnest, ardent and heartrending as the undercurrent. such a quality is scarcely found on other rock tunes than maybe that particular classic.


nope.
I didn't say that. I'm questioning it because apparently you refer to "common sense" to appreciate music.
as I said if you can't feel the songs, that's fine. or more like none of my business.

nonetheless, your personal opinion doesn't reduce the excellence of these songs an inch.
For side notes, many has reported that better is in high favour of non gnr fans and IRS was in the net charts despite the fact that it was no other than a leaked demo.
Each to their own. still you might find at least a few songs you can love on CD. although I doubt it, to be honest.

So when was the last time you were deeply moved again?

The last time he listened to One Tree Hill....... ;D ps Naupis, you are overestimating that riff a little. I was in college when SCOM broke. Every chick in the world dug that song because of the video and Axl's little snake dance. I'll never forget being at a sorority party and seeing 100 girls dancing on the tables screaming out the lyrics. Now, don't get me wrong, that riff is great, of course Slash didn't even want to record it, but the vocal, lyrics, and video took the song to another level.

I'm moved everyday by songs ppbebe. I don't have to wait 15 years for new Axl Rose tunes to be moved. a lot of songs off the new Snow Patrol album move me, Neil Young's newest album moved me, City and Colour's album is moving. I'm moved by the new tune on The Music's website homepage. Leaked demos of U2's new songs and david usher's new songs sound very moving. If you wanna know when the last time I was moved by a  new Gn'R song well it was in 2002 at the VMA's when I first heard Madagascar. Nothing new GnR since than has coem close to moving me in any way shape or forum. be it physically bouncing or emotinal connection. the songs just dont; do it for me. they sound generic and empty in terms of emotion from my perspective.

 I never said anythign about needing common sense to appreciate music. I do think there's a lack of common sense on these boards in terms of the overly high expectations for this album in regards to how the general music buying public will recive it. Alot of you say "everyone I know was blown away by the leaks and demos" well who are you showing these songs too? I really tried to push the new songs on my friends. I e-mailed them to my freinds and played them in the car and at parties and asked for their opinions and not one single person said anything remotely positive about these songs. The best response was for Better when a few people said "it's o.k. I guess".  So nobody I know in the general public gave two shits about the new songs. Too me that says alot. Trust me when I say this I REALLY WANT/WANTED to love these new songs and I'ma s much a fan as the old material as anyone so when I find it extremely hard to dig the new songs to sucha  high level I have to belive that alot of people have simply convinced themselves that these songs are amazing. They wanted it so much that they made it so.  I know this will piss some people off and offend some people but I honestly believe a hell of alot of people on these boards are gonna love the album and the songs no matter what simply because it's Axl. It won't be based on the material itself it will be based on who wrote it.I believe that a massive amount of people would not rate these songs at all if they weren't Gn'R. I also believe that a huge amount of people on these boards don't have the ability to be unbiased when it comes to Axl Rose.  I dont say that to be mean I say it because I think it's true.

Alright I'm ready for the "Fuck you Bono! How dare you tell us why we like the songs"  type coments to fly.  Ican deal with it. ;D

well said watson.  i dont think this lad is entirely wrong though.  i think slash's popularity has alot to do with his image, not everyone knows he wrote the solos and he has kept his affro type hair all these years (for obvious reasons).  so id say slash is 65% writing, 35% image.  afterall if i put a wig on like slash and wore it around everyone would know im trying to copy slash.  and theres one thing that virtuoso guitar players dont know how to do, and thats ROCK! like slash

And once again we come back to the "what came first, the chicken or the egg argument?" What is the bigger contribution to the song? The genius needed to create a timeless guitar riff that inspired it, or the genius to realize it was good and make a song out of it?

Much like the eternal question of "how many licks does it take to get to the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop?" I guess the world will never know.

I love what I hear so far. In my heart, the album is a monster hit, but whether Axl can soundscan 500-600k units opening week is another story. Beyonce and Justin were able to sell half a million records their first week; I am highly skeptical that Axl has enough push to match that feat. CD could be a slow and long burn on the charts......It hopefully has legs.

quote from bono
"I can tell you right now that Smells Like Teen Spirit is as popular in the bars today as it was when it was released. Better will never reach those heights. Not even close."

IM sorry man , love you and your posts but I beg to differ, I cant remeber the alst time I ehrd anyome play nirvana in a bar nor zep, and whrer I hang out in NYC tribeca , whre alot of Pace University, and MIT crowd hang out , I find they play alot more GNR, and  with the  new jukeboxes where you can download and play tunes, newer stuff. BUT every damn time I go into tis place someone has played GNR. NOT NIRVANA or Zep.

I think we're getting away from the original question.  First off, it's hard to say exactly how the songs will play when we're listening to unmastered demos.  Even unmastered demos of Smells Like Teen Spirit weren't all that.   But I think the only way to answer this question fairly is to look at the biggest rock bands of the day.  Does this material hold a candle to what they are doing?  Bands like The Killers, Linkin Park, White Stripes, Tool are probably the foremost rock bands out there today. There are many other very goods out there...but I think we can all agree that these are the biggest (whether we like their music or not).  It's too hard to tell how good the live songs will be once they hit the CD.  I've heard tons of live songs that sounded great in concert only to hear the CD and hate them.  I've also heard terrible live songs that were amazing on CD.  So let's take a look at the demos: CITR, Better, TWAT, IRS OMG. 

OMG had it's chance...it did nothing.  But the song was probably too complex for main stream radio, almost like a Mars Volta song.  A brilliant band who rarely gets radio play.

CITR could be any song by someone like Maroon 5.  Is that a good thing for gunner fans?  not necessarily...but that does mean it could get play on light rock radio.

So could Better, TWAT, IRS hold a candle to "Seven Nation Army," "One Step Closer," "Somebody Told Me?"  Probably not.  But that's mainly because the radio world is dominated by alt. rock.  The most raved about metal CD of the year is Mastadon and you don't hear that on the radio....yet.

There's one big factor that would make a difference:  Axl's voice.  Axl's voice is so unique and different that it alone would draw attention to the music.  This guy could be singing Garth Brooks songs and he would draw a crowd...especially if the world had never heard his phenomenal howl up until this point.  I think the new GNR, if they were a new unknown band, they would get noticed...they would get radio play...they would receive a positive critical praise...BUT they wouldn't be as big as AFD GNR although they would develop a strong devoted following.

I could see them being popular on the level of a band like Incubus, Audioslave, A Perfect Circle, or Offspring.

Wait, wait, wait... Are you saying you're suprised that Guns N' Roses fans are enjoying songs by their favourite singer?  What the hell are we supposed to be doing?  I'd say there are a fair number of people on this forum who are level-headed about the new material.  It is generally accepted that Silkworms is a bad song, regardless if Axl Rose is singing it or not.  Each board member also has a leaked song they prefer more than the others...but of COURSE people are going to like the songs, it's Axl Rose singing it... His voice and lyrics are the reason we're here in the first place.

The songs may sound "generic & empty" to you, but name another singer who can pull off the vocals at the end of TWAT?  Or write a verse as good as the last in CITR?  I don't know why you shouldn't be excited about the music coming from this band... it clearly stands out from the rest of popular music.

I am not a huge fan of some of the new songs, but why should you doubt that I sincerely enjoy some of it more than any other music released recently, or that I've made an "emotional connection" to the songs?

Sometimes making a conscious effort to keep an "open mind" about music turns you into a critic... and sometimes thinking like a music critic can ruin your enjoyment of good music. 

hahaha! ;D Jazjme you need to hang out in the club that I dj in than. ?What I ment was Teen Spirit is as popular today as it was back then ?in terms of the reaction it still gets from the crowd when it's played. It's a regular in my set. ?I come off my techno set with Smells Like teen Spirit and it blows the roof off the place. It's hard to explain it but I do a techno remix of it(my own thank you very much) ?that I can pretty much loop in with any other techno song I may be playing at the time. I bring the crowd down a notch to let them breath and when I start throwing in the quick bits of Teen Spirit in you can hear and see the anticipation grow in the crowd. Now whether that appreciation is for the dj or for the song I don't know but I can tell you this: When I make the transition(It's seemless you guys would love it ;D) from techno Teen Spirit into the actual Nirvana version the place explodes every time. I then follow it up with a ?rock set. So yeah this was way off topic but I just thought I should explain what I emnt about it beinga s popular today as it was back than. ?In all honesty as far as club dj's go you guys would love me ;D Lots of rock and lots of cool rock remixes. I've mixed Jungle with techno before(pretty cool) and I've even done some nice Zepplin vs Gn'R remixes. Crowd always loves that shit. 8) : ok:

fair enough. I knew that quote would get some reaction but are you in turn saying that I can't genuinely dislike the songs or feel they are average at best and that my "open mindedness" has now in fact  ruined my enjoyment of the music? You see now you're doing the  same thing I just did excpet it's the exact opposite. Now you might understand where I was coming from. I didn't say everyone likes these songs falsely. I now there are some who really do enjoy these new songs but I am saying I believe that a large amount of fans have simply convinced themselves that the songs are great and I woudl be willing to bet I'mnot the only one who feels this way. It's like bad songs are now average, average songs are good, good songs are great and great songs  are epic. It's a case of people not wanting to be let down to a point where they refuse to be regardless.  I've read comments saying how the new songs hold up to the old material. Examples being Better as the new PC and TWAT as  the new Estranged. not in terms of them simply being "the new" but being better than those old songs. To me that's ridiculous  and it's a false/over appreciation.  It's appreciation based on anticipation. We've wanted the songs for so long and now that we've got them some people are gonna make them out to be so much more than they are, when in reality these new songs won't in my opinion have the staying power that old material did. I dont' believe that 20 years down the road we'll be hearing Better or The Blues on Classic Rock radio they way we hear SCOM or Jungle today. Of course though I'm basing my opinions on "From what we've heard so far" Demos and live cuts. Still  I don't believe the album will have the classic feeling many are expecting. If I'm wrong I'll be supper happy and e the first to say I was wrong. I hope to be proven wrong. If that ends up being the case than we all win.

Well you also can't refuse to believe that any of the new songs will be better than the old stuff... It IS possible, however unlikely.  Personally, I rank some of the new stuff ahead of some of the weaker old stuff, but of course we haven't even heard the final product.

Around the middle of your post I started to think that the true test would be people's impression of the album down the road a few years.  You mentioned that a few lines after that.  I think that just like Episode 1, the hype and love of classics will cloud people's judgment of the new songs.... but when the dust settles we will see how good the album really is.  I personally think it will be looked upon highly compared to current music and possibly stand up to the old material.

We know there are some really good songs. The producer (Axl and who knows) will be the key. A good record (Contraband) or a classic (UYI 1/2)?

definately not. I know some of these news songs will likely blow some of the odl songs outta the water. Like you said though it'll likely be the weaker old material. Songs like Dust n' Bones, Bad obsession, So Fine, Pretty Tied Up etc. Those are all decent songs but already I feel songs like Madagascar, Better and even TWAT have loads more potential than those osnsg ever could. I'm not under the illusion that tis album can't be gear. I hope it is and I hope the studio version of these songs we've heard so far do change my mind.


FUCKING YES!!! that's the best analogy I have yet to hear. It's at least the best way to describe what I was trying to get at. Phantom Menace was loved by so many people and yet a few years down the road those very same people(myself included) can't stand it. The love for that movie was based on a past love and based on such high anticipation and expectation. You loved them for the fact that they were simply new Star Wars material. You excitement clouded your judgement and it wasn't untill a bit of time had passed where you could really look at it objectively.? Attack of the Clones I don't belive recived such high praise right off the bat from Star wars deprived fans. We had gotten our fix from Phantom Menace and we're able to look at AOTC more clearly.

I didn't say that his main contributions to the BAND came from image and presence, I said his contributions to the band's popularity. But you disagree because you either aren't reading my posts corectly, or you think that the 13 million people who bought that album were such discriminating fans of guitar playing that they could tell Slash is a great player. Well, maybe that's true, but if so, I'm surprised that he's the only great guitar player who sold 13 million albums that year. He's good but I wouldn't call him the best guitar player that ever lived - not that that detract from his playing the band when he was in it, but the important thing about that band is that it was a tight unit of guys working together - not that any of them were so virtuosic on their instruments.

wait A sec, sir!
altho huge, those are not my primary reason to be here.
Mine is the songs the band makes. The sound its members make together.
It's Guns n roses, the band axl has constructed anew with these guys and leads. and all the characters in it.

One person doesn't make a band. possibly an aggregation of musicians either.

A band is one organism itself, consists of the musicians plus some presence among them...like an aura that defines the band.
It's variable but is always there even when they were physically apart.

A good band is greater than the sum of its parts.

Also there're quite a few who like the silkworms over another song.

on the other things you said, I totally agree.

:yes:

Axl is God...

"Nuff Said...

The Phantom Menace??  The Attack of the Clones??  WTF???  Wait!  Hold on... THAT explains why there has been so much bitching lately!!!!  We've been invaded by the Star Wars geeks...

Bitching lately?! Where the fuck have you been? there's been bitching on these boards for years. Star Wars has nothing to do with that. Try and comprehend what was being said.

Good! You're an impressionable nature.

I'm not. I'm fussy.

There're many songs that I enjoy but wouldn't call moving.
By moving I mean truly moving and not just pleasant. like mind-blowingly, goosepimply, earthshakingly, or such. For instance the other day I, in an unguarded moment, sobbed while reading a serial in a magazine at rather a busy bookshop, in public! which was bloody embarrassing but I couldn't resist. I usually buy it when published in book form but having seen people's roaring disapproval of the tragic turn of the story from the last few issues, I was too curious /anxious about the fate of the two heroines. I'd draw a parallel between IRS, with both the music and the lyrics, and the panic of a heroine in the story and of probably every reader. 

If I find more than a few poignant tracks/ moments in an album, right away it will be the most excellent album I ever heard, which most absolutely CD will be, as the songs heard so far guarantee.

In my mind, there's no superior or inferior in the emotions/the impressive songs. Never. Unless false.


The last few lines are what I'd describe u2 songs as from my perspective?tight but nothing outrageous?save that recently I found their early works less boring as the edges spacey guitar is more remarkable there but every time the vocal comes in, I'd go like oh shut up. That doesn't mean I hate the singer. Far from that I think hes a fine character.

Each to their own.
Likewise, many will regard cd as higher than afd, some of the old schools won't.
Some will appreciate cd as much as they did afd.. Same may never like either of them.

Regardless I wouldn't go to a u2 board to announce this to the U2 fans. That'd be not only boring but also  ridiculous as it might well make U2 fans dislike GNR fans and even the very band.


Like I said, I wasn't obliged to be a fan of Axl and this band, and still I'm not.
I'm free. I believe everyone here is.

I don't get why you should bother yourself with some fans "overly high expectations" so hard.

If their expectations were to end in disappointment, so what? None of your concern, innit? 
They don't die of the expectations or won't die of the disappointment. no big deal for a fan.

And that why you should force the songs of which even you yourself don't have good opinions
upon your friends and upon yourself?
no offence but sounds like you're pretty obsessed.

sorry about a long and late reply. I felt asleep while typing this.

Thought I'd test this out, so I showed a board full of GNR non-fans some of the best Blues, Maddy, and TWAT performances (demo in the case of TWAT).  Here's their responses:

" Axl's voice is horrible. It sounded like one of the American Idol rejects that make it on tv for the laughs.  Guitar solos were boooring.  These songs sounded like crappy CCM songs from some mid to late nineties "Christian rock band" that was still holding on to the 80's while trying to be "relevant" to a new generation.  I was never a fan of GnR, but I find this sad. They were the one band that fit into the whole "hair band" title whose music was respectable. Their past music held up better with time than most of their peers. "

"LOL @ Axl.  Holy mother that was awful. I didn't mind GnR back in the day - but WOW.  I felt this involuntary belly laugh every time he started screaching for his old high range of voice. Sorry, this is pretty pathetic - in the sad way.  Even the prerecorded There Was a Time song was severely lacking."

"I listened to the first two but stopped after I couldn't stand the singer's voice any longer. Everything besides that seemed good...but golly gee whiz, he didn't sound good."

I just hope that Catcher in the Rye makes it onto this album, and doesn't get pushed back to the second or third release.  It's SUCH a great song!!!!!

You so need to get laid buddy.....and I ain't talkin' about your blowup dolls....

That is a great song.

and are they bon jovi fans? or motley?  :hihi: If not, why didn't you play IRS and better for them?

Yeah really. I must say all of the songs I've played for people have gotten a great response. My little brother didn't like Madagascar the first time he heard it but it grew on him.

Well that's condescending of you. Whatever ::).

I agree. Though this kind of movement " like mind-blowingly, goosepimply, earthshakingly is so far and few between. I'm moved by muisc everyday but admitedly it's rare to be moved ot that extent.  If you get that form IRS than I guess I could simply very well say "You're an impressionable nature.. Maybe now the condescending tone is clear for ya.




Well how about you go to a U2 forum then and see how people are there. Those forums are the same as these forums in the sense that some people are incapable of being unbiased. Bono is God. The Edge is the greatest guitar player who ever lived and so on. Thye can do no wrong in the eyes of some.Though when the fans who do show true unbiased opinions there, their opinions are useually taken seriously and never labelled a hater the way they are on Gn'R forums. See to voice an opinion that doesn't glorify Axl or the new band here is heresy. It doesn't make Gn'R fans more loyal it only makes them more blind. After 16 years of being a  diehard Gn'R fan(one time my favorite band, now my second fav and millions of miles in front of my third fav) and 4 years on the forums I would have to say that what I posted  just above was a legit opinion.  And if fans are small minded enough to read somthing like that and then decide not to like a band based on it, then that shows a massive lack of intelligence and perspective as well as free thinking.


Wow. you're unreal. Aren't we all!? We've been waiting for this thing forever and so a few leaks finally come out and even though I'm not blown away by them I share them with friends and ask for their opinion. It's a pretty big leap for you to suggest I "forced" the songs on my friends. I simply gave them the opportunity to hear them. If that's obbsessd than yeah I guess I
am obsessed. I've been a  diehard fan for so long ppbebe and even though Gn'R are my second favorite band I'm willing to say(and I'll get blasted for this too likely) that I love them more and they mean more to me than some of the true fans on this very board. That's not a knock on them it's just an example of how much I love Gn'R. I'm so damn tired of people thinking that just becasue I have "Bono" as a username that my intentions on these boards are to alienate board members or to find constant fault with the new band or with Axl.  I'm a  straight shooter and I'm gonna give my opinion whether it be negative or positive, whether I'm gloriying or vilifying Axl. Whether I think someone says somthing ridicuous of if I completely agree. The point of these forums is for fans to discuss and debate and if I'm not gonna bother with other fans overly high expectations or fans likes and dislikes or any of that stuff than why should I even be here?  Why should any of us be here.

The thing to me is, that in any forum for any band you're gonna here about how every member of that band is the greatest ever.

I personally feel that GN'R is the greatest force in rock. I thought that when Axl was the leader and he had a great lineup behind him in the 90s and I wasn't convinced in the early 00's. Then I went to see for myself in 02 and again in 06. I was blown away both times.

I honestly try to be as objective about GN'R as I can. I put up with an unbelieveable amount of shit about it from friends of mine who couldn't even hope to have listened to as much music as I have. They have the nerve to say that I'm sheltered.

In the end, if the music moves you thats all that matters, there's nothing else.

Funniest shit I ever heard! lmao

I agree with you 100% russtcb. I mean it's the same thing for me with Gn'R. I put up with so much bullshit from freinds who ask why I still even support Axl. Why do I? It's all about the music for me and the potential in Axl. The guy has talent and he intrigues me. Does that mean I'm gonna worship everything he does? No. Will I like every song he ever writes? No. I feel a Guns fan forum should be a place where we can express dissapointment without being labelled a hater and such. For me persoanlly I think I post more than enough positive stuff that it should be obvious that I'm not all about trashing the new band. I also think it's o.k. to point out such things that alot of fans seem to have no perspective when it comes to being unbiased. It is only an opinion but I think it's quite obvious and not somthng to take offence to. If you(not you personally russtcb) don't fit the description than that's great right? That's what these places are for. Debate. ?What you say about your friends calling you "shelterd" when it comes to music is a shitty feeling. I know because my freinds say the same thing about me at times and like you they can only dream of hearing the amount of music I have. I DJ for a living damnit :hihi: You're right, it's about the music and whether it moves you or not and to be looked down upon when you voice an opinion stating that the new songs don't move you is sucky. I mean ?alot of people instantly judge you for being musically stupid if a song like IRS or TWAT don't move you. they question your ?ability to appreciate and "feel" music. It's so lame.

Holy shit did I agree with like 99.9% of everything you said. I happend to LOVE TWAT, but yeah, I get it overall. It's like if you don't agree with someone then you must be retarded musically. No. I don't think so. Great post and preach on.

 :rofl: Well the version of TWAT we've heard is a mess in my opinion but having said that I do believe it has the most potential of all the new songs to be epic and has the most room for improvement once the studio version is released : ok:

Well someone's gotta take over from the real Bono someday :rofl: