Here Today... Gone To Hell!

BEYONCE is one of the 2 or 3 most popular artist in the world right now. Her new album will be out next tuesday. I just heard her new single, I saw the video on MTV, I like myself some of her earlier works, I have nothing against Rn'B, I love almost every kind of music, but....honnestly...sincerely... THIS IS CRAP. All the new GN'R demos are 10 times better than her new single. Like day and night. Even as unfinished demos they are better. There is no need to worry about the success of Chinese Democracy. All the new songs/demos we heard so far are really really better.

I think there is no competition right now...

There is no "Nevermind", no "Achtung baby", no "Black Album", no "Eminem Show", to be in competition with... 
It is time to release Chinese Democracy. The road is open for a massive musical and commercial success.

Who in the band said they were worried?? ???

Funny... This is the SAME thing people said before Velvet Revolver released Contraband...

hahahah funny mnm show a good cd  that was funny dude. :rofl: :hihi:

were the contraband demos as good as the CD leaks?

doesn't matter waht is out there there is always "competition" in the charts :peace:

but i don't think that GnR is worried about how well the album will do...they'll just ride the wave...if it does well then they go with it, if it doesn't then the 2nd disk will be the next step

IMO, "Slither" (the final product...I have not heard any demo's by VR so I can't compare) is just as good as "Better," perhaps a little lower in my opinion if only because Axl is much better than Weiland. Slash is much better on "Slither" than the 3 GN'R guitarists are on "Better," though. I'd say that overall Chinese Democracy sounds better than Contraband from what I've heard so far of CHIDEM.

Wow :o Slash is amazing and that really goes with out saying but I'm way more impressed by robin/richard new stuff than I am w/ Slash/Dave

absolutely agree.  its not even close. 

i dont want CD to compete with Beyonce :P
compare the new songs to something worth comparing to...
like green day, coldplay, NIN or ozzy.

do you think that the demos we've heard so far could compare to ozzys down to earth?

so far not one song I've heard is on the same level as "Dreamer" except for CITR.
so far dreamer is the best rock song IMO of the 21st century.

Down To Earth sux.. Ozzy's worst solo effort...Ever

it was an okay album..

I bet many people will say the same thing for Chinese Democracy. no matter if it's true or not.

and down to earth is a great album. much better than a lot of crap Ozzy came up in the 70/80s.

and if ozzy is not good enough, try comparing the demos to "With teeth" the album.

seriously, you cant compare weiland with axl.... i mean cmon... :confused:

Ozzy is amazing.. I'm not even gonna go there. But you have ..I don't even know how to reply to this.
Ozzy came out w/ crap in the 70's and 80's ? Are you serious? OMG. OK whatever you think...IDK I'm speechless w/ that.
Someone else go

you cant compare beyonce to GNR, and yet that's the main thesis of this thread :no:

I'm not saying all was crap. I adore ozzy, but some of his albums were filled with korny rock songs...

u can't compare Beyonce's ass to Axl's ass  :rofl: :rofl: no way man, CD will break the whole world in two

Yea, your talking about two totaly different buying groups. people buying beyonce will not be buying GnR. and vice versa

Yeah. Release it whenever; stop with excuses like there are other albums coming out.


You can say that about the rest of the band, but Axl is the only one with all to lose. It's his wave.

Robin's solos make me hard...i'm not afraid to admit it.  The only VR solos that i love are Fall to Pieces and You Got No Right.

that is wayy too much info :nervous: and frankly quite scary

 :rofl:
Dude, Robin Finck is amazing on the leaks, nothing short of just pure bad assinis ( yea that's a word)
The only competition that's going on with this record is if Axl wants to make this record the shit or if he wants to make this record something else that's better than the shit. Everyother record released in the last 6 years is going to sound like garage records made by pre-teens

Nuff said.............

The Toads are coming out with an album.

Watch out.

The guitar lick at the beginning of "Better" is catchy, but at the same time it's kind of harsh and annoying. I could see how some folks would get annoyed by it and turn off the song before getting to the cool part where the band starts jamming. The solo is badass, but didn't Buckethead do the main solo (shredding one)?. Robin did a great job on "Better," but I just think "Slither" has a little bit more catchiness to it with the guitar work by Slash. That being said, "Better" has Axl singing it, which gives it big bonus points when compared with Weiland singing "Slither." Weiland just sucks ass and Axl is the effing man.

IDK i think better is fucking awesome the way it is

 :rofl: :rofl: The cool part :rofl: :rofl:

LOL you know what I mean. If you think the guitar lick at the beginning isn't a little harsh, then I've got ocenfront property in Arizona to sell you. After the intro licks, the song goes from sorta catchy to effing badass.

Velvet Revolver = typical cock-rock

Guns N' Roses = Different styles, doesn't really sound like anything out right now.

LOL, funny that you mention that though. Didn't GN'R start out as typical cock-rock in the mid to late 80's? They did it better than anyone else has EVER done it (and that is an understatement seeing as how AFD is probably the best album of the 1980's while having completely "trashy" lyrics). But, GN'R evolved with UYI and like you mentioned, the leaks and live songs like Maddy have an interesting contrast between hard rock and epic rock.

Axl pushed slash's boundries and I would love to hear what he could of done to CD, though Robin is the man and I wouldn't have this lineup anyother way. This album is gonna be the next stage to UYI. It may not sell like UYI but I don't expect it too.
 
GnR was never cock rock and i would love for you to say that to axl. Whatch the 88' ritz show and tell me if you think that's cock rock

The definition of cock rock on Wikipedia lists GN'R as the second band right after Queen. Cock Rock has to do with whether the lyrics are sexist or talk about sex (AFD definitely does...apparently you haven't listened to "Rocket Queen" or "Anything Goes" lately or maybe you haven't heard "You Could Be Mine" [paricularly the LIVE version where he goes 'and I'll leave you lying on the bed with your ass in the air!']). In fact, it's not necessarily a negative term unless it's being used by a feminist or something or if you're talking about the average 80's hair metal band. But Wikipedia lists Queen, Bad Company, GN'R, and Aerosmith. I would even say Led Zeppelin could be included (just listen to "Whole Lotta Love" and "The Lemon Song" if you need a couple of perfect examples). GN'R was the best cock rock band ever in my opinion, but that doesn't mean that they had Bob Dylan's level of significance with their lyrics or anything. They were the most skilled musicians since Led Zeppelin in my opinion, but like Zeppelin their lyrics were pretty freakin' silly to be honest (which is just fine with me since Zeppelin and GN'R are my two favorites of all time).

Your killin me. :beer:

OK, whatever (and I do believe you're looking for the term "you're" as I just used it).

You can be a delusional fanboy all you want. I love GN'R, but at least I fucking recognize when I see male chauvinism in its purest form (AFD). I love that album, but not really for the lyrics. Same goes for pretty much everything Zeppelin did. GN'R and Zeppelin are two of the most talented bands ever, but they had plenty of cock rock elements in their style. And as Wikipedia's article shows, that's not a bad thing if some of the best bands ever (AC/DC, Queen, GN'R, Aerosmith, Bad Company, Van Halen...) are considered part of the genre.

Thanks for  helping me with my grammar gnrfan2008 ;)

But look at what i'm dealing with..

fanboy...maybe.. But i'm just quoting what your saying : ok:

Yeah, you're welcome. Apparently you didn't learn your lesson though.

And what was wrong with calling Zeppelin's lyrics silly? Have you listened to most of their stuff? It's silly as hell. I love it, but I'm also realistic to not worship it, unlike most Beatles fans out there who think the Beatles' lyrics were the best thing ever. Dylan is one of the only mainstream artists in the last 50 years to put out meaningful lyrics IMHO.

I did that one on purpose :smoking:

No, I just crawled out the cave today..never heard of these cock bands you hear about on  :rofl:wikipedia :hihi:.
but you the man, you say GnR wrote silly lyrics and yet I still respond.  You call me a fanboy and yet i still respond
this is  a thread about competition and yet i still respond. were the only two responding because everyone else is smart enough not to respond to your stupid dumb ass bullshit.

Axl wrote silly lyrics.... i'm just dumbfounded on that. Zeppelin have some of the best silly lyrics i've ever heard in my life. idk what else to say.

Damn wikipedia gets me everytime :'(

From an entertainment standpoint, Zeppelin and GN'R both have cool lyrics. From the standpoint of actually MEANING something (like a piece of Classical literature or something), their lyrics are silly compared with the likes of Dylan. Just go listen to "Masters of War" and then listen to "Rocket Queen" and maybe you'll understand what I'm talking about. Axl's busy singing about sex. Dylan's busy telling everyone how crappy our leaders are. One is very entertaining. One is very thought-provoking. Both are cool in my book. Facts are facts though. Zeppelin and GN'R both wrote silly lyrics. That's a fact.

I must say that GNR is picking a very good time to release the album. The music scene, to me, is DEAD! Hopefully they can knock a little life into it.

Yeah I agree. Music sucks nowadays, but apparently a lot of folks are buying the junk that's being force-fed to them. The VMA's reminded me of BET instead of MTV. Oops, I forgot that they're the same thing now.

There were no Contraband demos before the albums release.

I think the record company people are the ones doing the worrying.




/jarmo

Yes and Contraband was very successful...the fastest selling debut album ever. Chinese Democracy would be a success if it done as well as Contraband, which I'm sure it will.

Set me free sounds like demo  ;) :hihi:

I think many of you are really going to be let down with album sales.. You really think the world is sitting around waiting for a 44 year old man in braides to turn the rock world upside down... The next big musical revolution happens with young people hungry to make it, people the youth can understand... Not from a guy who wears a new suit every night and lives in a mansion...

When I was a teenager I didn't look at people in their 40's as cool... We're talking mainstream here...

every generation has the crappy music, but to many it's not crap.. I had new kids menudo and all those other people like tiffany kylie, debbie gibson etc... many people viewed hair metal as force fed crap too... What one doesn't like another loves.. grunge, r&B pop rap etc..

I agree wit u Mike... Alot of people think that Chinese Democracy will debut at number 1 and etc.... I think it'll break the top 10 but that may be it.. Trust me, i want this to be as big or bigger then the "old" GNR but, thats far from the truth...
Jbat

it can easily debut in number one, I just don't see the 800k to 1 million in the first week or 5-10 million in sales.. When I talk sales I mean the usa because I live here, also the 7 million for the illusions of the 15 million for afd is usa charts..

yes i liked them very much. some are even better then the final tracks on the cd.

I think of it like this.... Greatest hits came out at number 3.  This didn't exactly have the same anticipation as Chinese Democracy.  Plus, greatest hits most likely introduced a whole lot of kids to Guns N Roses.  I believe this album will do very well. 

So? because you live in America you don't care of the rest of the world when it comes to music? how close minded it is... ::)
I'm French, I live in France, and I alway speak about worldwide sales, you know, it just seems natural to me. There's a WORLD outside you know, people are like you, they look like you, they also listen to music. No this is not a conspiration therory, they are not martians..
There are human beeings outside America who buy GN'R records aswell! I tell you :o?

Is that why Floyd, The Eagles, The Stones and bands like them still sell millions of albums every year?

I still maintain that I could care less how much CD sells anyways. If it sells 10 copies and I like it, good enough for me. I'm not a GNR fan to impress anyone else.

If it sells 100 million copies and I hate it, I won't think any better of it because 100 million other people seem to like it.

but why do I care how many albums are sold elshwere,I go by where I live,, I go by the list here, I go by the platinum list here.. Everytime I hear about gh's sales it always posted in the usa.. I'm sure robbie williams sells millions in the UK but I wouldn't know who he is if he walked donw the street here.. Most true success in album sales and worldwide fame stems from The USA.. Don't get so touchy ;)

sure they sell old albums, not new one rus, everyone buys the classic

also the eagles and stone's following is ten times the gnr following..

sales are important if you keep talking taking over the poor poor rock scene of today

On a side note, it's funny you say that about Robbie Williams. My wife and I were at the Hard Rock in Vegas about a year and a half ago and he was checking in right next to us. NO ONE else in the area had any idea who he was.

I happen to like his voice so I asked to take a picture with him. My wife had never even heard of him and when she saw him on my Live8 DVD she was like "holy shit! Thats THAT guy?!". It was pretty funny.

ON TOPIC THOUGH:

My point is that I listen to music for me. I like the new members of GNR because I like them, not because I have anything to prove. I think Chinese Democracy will sell well because I think it will be a good rock album.

Whatever way the numbers fall won't matter to me because only my opinion of the music will matter to me.

Well I nthink it will initially sell because it has the gnr name stamped on it... people hear new gnr album fist one in 15 years of new music should shake some things up...

No doubt a good album is a good album regardless of the sales..

I remember when vr won the grammy and everyone was like that's because today's music sucks, but if new gnr won a grammy it would be because of how talented axl is :hihi: All of a sudden the grammys will be credible again...

I think sales are important if your label has been that patient and they sunk so much money into the project..

great point. the label is looking for a return on their, shall we say, substantial investment.

as for the whole idea of competition---i've honestly never gotten the whole logic- 'oh, well you cant release the album now b/c artist x' is also releasing one.

when multiple artists i like come out with new albums at the same time, i will pick up both albums at some point. i imagine most people do the same. album prices are still grossly inflated, but not enough that  people with a regular income wont pick up multiple new cds.

the real competition comes when jockeying for concert ticket sales, because those involve alot more money and time on the part of the buyer, and guns will have alot of competition for that money this fall.

so robbie williams isn`t that popular in the US?

i think he`s probably the biggest star in germany right now :hihi:

he could play where ever he wants and sell out stadiums in a day... and not just in germany, but in the rest of europe as well i guess...( i honestly don`t know. i`m really out of the loop regarding stars/new bands/music of today for the most part :hihi:)

anyways.....  i guess he`s able to be REALLY, REALLY huge, without being big in the US...

DMX last album kicks ass, there is competition, DARKMAN X will bite axl's head off :)





i kid i kid !

They don't really have any competition because there aren't any bands at all making this style of music right now that have any type of backing as far as labels and promotion.  There are a handful of successful hardrock bands, VR and Buckcherry but there music is much more straight ahead rock music while the new GnR is more like UYI era GnR with a few new twists.  You have straight ahead hard rock, metal, and moody alt/indie rock but it seems like most rock bands nowadays make just one type of music, they follow a formula and stick to one general style. 

Unlike these other bands new GnR is doing what the old band did on UYI, and what Zeppelin, Queen, and the Beatles did before in the sense that there's a huge range of different musical styles on the album.  Epics like TWAT and Madagascar, classic rock ballads like The Blues and CITR again with some moden touches, stripped down rockers like CD, IRS a subtly complex rocker, Better is a really unique song that doesn't fall under any category but is catchy in every way.  No two songs we've heard so far really sound that much like the others

he could do it anywhere in the world except the US.

and i wouldn't mind being a couple of pounds/dollars/euros behind him.

Same for me.

However, I have a feeling that for Axl, if it doesn't sell really well it will be a huge blow to him and he'll hang 'em up.

yeah...no doubt

I guess he's like the hoff, he gets so much attention in germany I guess as a serious singer but here he's just some cheeseball that did knight rider and baywaytch.. Love the shows just he's a tool..

there are demos of slither and a few others, really can't remember right now..

I can assure you that the people buying the GnR Greatest Hits album are not older people.  That album has remained on the charts for very long time, and it's mostly younger people who are buying it.  It's not people in their 30s and 40s who are buying the majority of the copies.  I see kids high school and middle school age walking around wearing GnR t-shirts so I think that you're underestimating GnR's popularity amongst the younger crowd.  There was about a 10 year stretch where it wasn't cool to like GnR but that time has passed.  I don't think CD will sell like AFD or the Illusions albums but with the resounding success of their Greatest Hits album shows that there's still a large market interested in Guns.  Imagine if the Greatest Hits had a better tracklisting  :hihi:

naaaahh :hihi:      you can`t compare him to david hasselhoff dude

that guy`s an idiot and released some crappy singles 15 years ago or so... robbie williams is huge and not just in germany....
i don?t think hasselhoff could sell out stadiums at any point of his "career"...

i thought r.williams was a big name all around the world (well in europe as well as US), but he appatently isn`t though...  i guess he`s definitely big in the UK as that`s where he`s from and well.... he`s pretty big here as i mentioned, but what about the rest of europe?

i don?t like him anyways...

 :yes: Same management company, different genre.

I don't see why Beyonce is brought up, of all musicians.

yeah gnr was something you kept under wraps from 94 to say 99-2000 .. Gnr is now trendy, at leas the name or logo is..

Depends on where you live...It's not trendy where I'm from. I mean its got better since Axl has returned to the limelight so to speak, but its still pretty notorious and frowned-upon

All I know is I can't stop watching Better on youtube. I think this albums gonna be huge!

they need some seriously good promotion, especially in the UK.

Well I'm seeing those 80's t shirts everywhere from goonies to ac/dc to gnr .. it's not just coincidence.... I have even seen back to school t shirts with gnr :rofl:

Sure thing! the destiny is so manifest that I can even yawn.   8)

the better clip at download is like a make or mar struggle between GNR + fans and the haters.
And GNR 1.  with the wicked harmony (inside the band) and the hearty performance. If it was not rnr then what it could be?
It's drama. it's a miniature of what's ahead of the band, I reckon.

Welcome to the board, sumbodyElse.  :beer:

What's your problem?

What's your problem trying to post in French?

Stick to the topic.



/jarmo

Guns n' Roses may be better than Beyonce, but lets be realistic, they are no way near Shakira.

Musically or physically.

yes yes I know I posted in french because he (or she) might be french. Anyway. Back on topic.

may i keep irony, if i find any?

Thanks for the welcome ppbebe! I've actually been coming to this web site for a few years now to get all the latest GnR info. I even had a previous ID but forgot it over time - just visited as a guest. Thought I'd re-register - maybe even add my two cents now and then.

I completely disagree. I think it's very well known in the rock universe that this isn't the classic lineup of GNR. I really don't think the album is going to sell automatically just because it has the GNR name on it.

I really see the album doing all of it's business on it's own merit.

Its not gonna sell as much as some of you think. Different world out there now for Axl. I wouldnt expect anything over 300k the first week. Prob will be at number one or in the top 5.

It'll debut at No. 1 for certain. Past that, I honestly don't care since that means I'll have my copy by then.

u never know what new bands could pop up and steel the CD's thunder!!!

There is always competition. I don't think that Beyonce and GNR have the same audience, although it's obvious that the thread starter didn't mean to imply that per se. The real problem is credibility, and I don't think that anyone really knows what is going to happen with that. A lot of people don't think of GNR as a band that still exists. For the record, I'm not agreeing with that, but you can't really deny that it's true. So there is competition - it's the 80/90's era GNR, and Axl's reputation that they are up against.

Lucky, I hope that CD is as good as the "crap" that Ozzy released with Sabbath in the 70's(ie. albums that helped define the genre we call metal), or at least the Randy/Jake era material from the 80's. If it isn't better than Down to Earth, I'm selling it back within a week.

How are you not agreeing but not denying it's true??

Totally agree. ?

My mother could've hopped on stage at the VMA's and duplicated her goofy-ass, untalented performance.

Please tell me that is a joke. Thats one of Ozzy's worst songs.

You ain't kidding. IMO the only ballad on like the last 4 Oz records that's good is "Old L.A. Tonight"

You cut my message in the wrong meaning. I never said Beyonce was crap (as I said, I like some of her previous work even if i'm sure she didn't write any of her music - The Producers did for herself anyway...), I just said her new single is not good music. That's different.

I feel for you bro, to really believe that... Regardless a gnr album will sell better then if it was under another name..

It becomes increasingly harder for me to understand why you think so little of GNR. Do you not like the leaks? Do you not think that music is good.

Oh and another thing, please stop posting this type of shit all the time. I understand that you really, really, really, really like Appetite For Destuction and nothing will ever live up to it for it. I however like to believe that people have the ability to get better what they do.

:rofl: I'm almost positive Bill Clinton has signed up here using the name requiem156. :hihi:

gnr , I think so highly of gnr that's why I don't just call any people axl hired guns n roses.. What does liking afd have to do with cd.. Besides the fact one is a gnr record that is called one of the best ever and the other is a axl rose solo album under the gnr name?

COLDPLAY?!?! lol. just joking.

Unfortunately I think guns does have competition. Obviously us GNR freaks are gonna think axl taking a shit with paul tobias shredding in the background and pittman playing the ocarina is better then anything out today. PErsonally, i think that the new tracks are some of the best songs ive heard in my whole life. But unfortunately, only us message board fans have good music taste and BEyonce's shit storm of a new single will sell better, to the retarted REAL music deprived youth of today.

Yea but it's not really the retarted youth buying the shit music out today but the parents buying the retarted shit music.
the last cd i actualy purchased was Vr contraband in 2004.

My point is that you think you're better then other people because you like the classic lineup and material. You can hold on to your little dream that someday they'll all comeback and that's all fine and good but those guys and those albums are in the past. Whether you like it or not the members in the band currently ARE Guns N' Roses, from every standpoint including a legal one. So no amount of negative thoughts, posts or put downs can change that for you.

Your opinion on AFD wasn't the point of the post anyways. Please read it again. What I asked is that you stop posting the same shit over and over and over again about the old vs new band. You're constantly telling people how stupid they are for having any faith in this lineup or their abilities to make music.

When I was in NYC you went out of your way to tell me over and over how stupid I was for driving all that way to see GNR. Well guess what guy? Thats YOUR opinion, just like I have mine. It just gets old hearing it over and over from you thats all.

It's hard for some people to admit this is guns n roses, partly because you ahve a whole new band playing the material that was made great by the old members, if this gnr just played new material maybe their perception to some would be different.  however at the same time they are guns n roses, their gnr members, and im sure theyre just as dedicated and devoted to the band as the old members.  basically their only competition will be the past.

I don't think you're stupid for going to see this band.. The same way you insist on saying this is gnr when I feel it isn't .. Some people can't just switch who they like because they're now in the band.. Did everyone have to think of matt or gilby as gnr because axl hired them ? Do I have to call BH a ex gnr member because he played a few shows with axl under the name..

No one ever said the band wasn't talented, no one ever said they didn't put a great album together, no one ever said they weren't going to make it.. I just said I don't view this as gnr and I find it hard at times when people call it gnr..

I don't just switch up what I like because it's under the same name... For every person that says their friends are looking forward to CD I can say I know people who know shit about this, or their last memory was axl trying to come back at the 2002 vmas but had no voice.. Now this isn't what I believe, but it's what people do.. or that he's using the gnr name without any other member.. I know everyone feels that's cool but I happen to think it's not regardless if it's right legally...

At least I stick to what I enjoy, have some loyalty to what got me interested in gnr.. I'm just not a flavor of the day guy who just loves whoever axl hires.. I'm interested in hearing axl sing the same way I want to hear slash play a solo or izzy or duff... So it is possible for me to be interested in what axl's doing but not consider this gnr in any way shape or form.. The band could change again and I wouldn't care.. I would just know it's not gnr..

That's true, and that's why I'm patiently waiting for CD. To me this still is Guns n' Roses, it's just another line-up.

You have to be the strangest character I've ever seen at a forum(yes, you top axlroseven). For about two years solid, you wrote love letters to Fortus and Finck, and now they're all just a bunch of "hired guys". You've raved on Tommy talking shit about BH, but knock him over some insult he said many years ago?

You basically went from a hardcore new GNR fan to an immature clone of mikegiuliana.

No, No. Saying they are "hired guns" and probably mercenaries at some point doesn't ternish their musial abilities and their talent for me. It ternish the Guns N' Roses legacy, but not them as individual musicians. They are here because they are paid a load of cash by AXL. If tomorow Paul mc Cartney offers them twice more money they will leave GN'R and play for Mc Cartney. But it doesn't mean I don't like them as musicians and that I don't recognize their talent.

just curious, what did tommy say about gnr then??

there is huge competition for gnr if they release a new album, its like trying to put a knife through a rock.  heres what we have:

Side 1: Crappy rock/Emo/Rap/Hip hop/New reggae crap like sean paul, all of which are backed by the corporations (record companies, music channels and any other kind of advertising that i havent thought of)

Side 2: The lone ranger/S ?? Guns N' Roses.  having not released an album in such a long time, peoples hunger for slash and general hate towards axl because most see him as the reason the group broke up (which is pretty much true, i dont have anything against axl but things like this happen alot with creative differences and ego)

will GNR get played on music channels, and if so how often?  the viewers sure as hell dont decide what is played 24/7, atleast thats how it works here in canada with muchmusic and muchmoremusic.  I doubt GNR will be played on either of the channels, maybe they will get played on MTV but i dont watch that (nor would i want to seeing as its the same crap as in canada) and if they are indeed played for some weird reason they probly wont get played often or put number 1on countdowns. 

and also i disagree with the "mercenaries" part, they are indeed skilled hired musicians but they have been with the band for a long time now, and robin has written stuff, and other members too? im not too sure but i think all help write. 

If the music videos are creative and/or the song is ridiculously catchy (like "Better" for instance), they will be played quite a bit on VH1, MTV, MTV2, etc. Having said that, I really couldn't care less about the music video aspect of all this. As long as the biggest rock stations across the country are playing GN'R then that's all that matters. Sure, GN'R can win over some pop fans with songs like "Better" or "Madagascar," but it's the true rock fans that GN'R needs to gain back. A lot of folks have given up on Axl and consider him a joke now. He needs to prove them wrong. He can do so by (1) releasing some singles and the album of course, and (2) getting tons of radio play from Eddie Trunk and other hosts across the country...Trunk definitely owes him after leaking "I.R.S." with Piazza not too long ago.

If that first part is true then why did you stand there at the pre-party and tell my wife, my friend, his girlfriend and I like 100 times how stupid we were for driving from Detroit to see the show?

As far as the last part goes, I guess this is quickly turning into a Dead Horse issue. The thing is, your friends Slash, Duff, Matt and Izzy didn't want to be in Guns N' Roses anymore and thats why they were replaced.

If CD comes out and you honestly like the music then guess what? That means your friends from the original lineup were wrong and this IS the direction GNR should go in. If it comes out and you honestly don't like the album as a whole then Axl is/was wrong.

Why is there ALWAYS a fuckin debate about old vs new? why?? Why can't everybody just let it go? It was 8-10 years ago people. i have been a fan since 88' i remember the line up changes , it's what it's always been. the one constant is W.Axl Rose. How is this a Axl Rose solo album? explain it.. How is Axl gonna be proved wrong, because one fucking person does not like it. The man is not going to sell his soul to please any of you. It's not about what you want or what you like. The old line up wanted to stick to a formula that would of sent the band nowhere, maybe in your eyes the band went nowhere, but for some reason I get it. I think the boys in Velvet Revolver FINALY GET IT, as there trying new things. Axl wanted to do different things with different records. Can you blame him? I don't.

They left axl they couldn't relate to him, didn't understand? what direction he wanted to go. basicaly they were close-minded rich musicians who didn't want to think outside the box. Slash's greatest solo EVER is a song he hated and a song axl loved hmmm... my personal opinion slash's greatest guitar work ever was on Estranged and who wrote that song? Yes, slash played the guitar on it and did a hell of a job but i don't hear great stuff from slash now. i hear what he does

You can count me into the group thats sick of this old vs new bullshit. Every thread(no matter how good or bad) always goes in that lame and stale direction. On Cd release day, every thread will be littered with "It aint AFD" bullshit.

Some people need to move on, go bitch at VR forums, post in Dead Horse, or start having their posts deleted by moderators because they are ruining threads about new GNR/Chinese Democracy.

Mike, you know I think you are a cool guy and all, but this really gets old.  I understand you don't view this as GNR, but you need to stop letting it bug you when people refer to it as GNR, because this band is touring and releasing an album as Guns N Roses.  People are going to call it GNR, like it or not, its the name of the band.  Just because you dont see it that way and you dont like it doesn't mean all of these threads need to turn into 'This band shouldn't be called GNR'.  And thats exactly what is going on.   Not saying you shouldn't express your opinion on this, but thats what the topics in dead horse are there for.

so true james.   this kind of stuff made me leave the boards for a while before the leaks happened.  it gets so tiring.

I'm saying that this is obviously the viewpoint of some people, but I don't agree with it. Sorry for being unclear, but I wasn't trying to be wishy-washy or whatever.

The old vs. new debate will continue. Even if it gets exorcised from this forum by mods, etc., it will always play into any discussion of the band. I'm pulling for the new band to succeed, but you 86-93 version casts a long shadow - they were an iconic rock band that came up from the streets of LA and endured a lot of hardship attain that level of success. It's tough to compete with that kind of mythology.

@ mikegiuliana
actually you don't want to see the album come out this year, do you? Cos it's not by the GNR you cling to or else You just love being unhappy? :confused: I hear of that kind of people.



t's a damn collaboration of the 8 musicians. Axl wants everyone in the band happy with the efforts. Tommy has told this over and over again and also he and other members have denied the "mercenaries" BS. Yet few people listen. :no:

I haven't waited for the album yet. my w8 starts when an official announcement is made. I won't be panicky then and I am not now. And even if not this year, I will be no way disappointed.

Regardless of my thoughts it's absolute that this year is it because Axl says so without additional words like hope, will, may, think or even should.

I've never doubted the honesty of the band members. from Sooner than later, in a dreads breadth and then in a braids length that is shorter than in 2002 to this absolute year.

If the 'realistic' 'diehard' fans ever listened to them, they would be realistic enough to accept that it's coming this time by now.

What they are saying is completely out of time.

If it was really a situation where Axl was treating the rest of the band as mercenaries, he could find undiscovered people to help him and pay them a lot less.

Oh trust me, I agree. I didn't mean to throw any gas on that fire. I was more or less wondering why the same points get brought up over and over as well.

I think we're more or less saying the same thing here.  :)

you should read your posts from previous years...

Why? Because his opinion has changed? Does that make him a hypocrite? Or maybe the ability to adapt and continue to grow is an indicator that lofton29 might just be a human being?

People change their minds about things. If they didn't, we'd all be walking around with big 80's hair and wearing sports jackets with jeans.

of course he can change his mind but to tell people to stop bitchin or to go to vr forum i dont think that should come from him.

Back OT, how can there be a thread like this about a band who hasn't put out this album for several years.. Aren't we jumping the gun a little bit? "There is almost no competition." This is like before NFL starts saying your team is going to go undefeated.. Let's be real, chances are this album will do good. That's it. That's it. Sell alot of albums, but nothing record setting?!!

If anything alot of people & older fans (and I'm not talking fans who browse these websites everyday) will take a while to warm up to it. We're older now, have family's, and don't care as much about what Axl Rose is up to. I think back to when I was a teenager & I bet half of my friends will never buy this album. I'm probably the only one who will buy it opening day. Back in 89 we all had Appetite.

But let's not jump the gun, how can we say "There is no competition" when bands like Audioslave, Army of Anyone, Metallica and VR are coming out shortly and Pearl Jam and RHCP just came out with solid albums. CD will sell about as many as most of those will. They're not going to walk thru the season 16-0. Heck, even the Eagles will lose once or twice this year!!? :hihi:

Why not?
he basically likes all fellow fans, negative or positive.
By saying those he is urging that they should move on and be happy like he did.
He knows what being nagative is like.
I'd say he's just the right man for the role.

Go james go!

Agreed. If you asked me what I thought about the current GNR lineup right after I watched RIR3 for the first time, my answer would be almost 90% different then it is today.

Well, all i'm saying is....you shouldn't set yourself up for disappointment, because you never know when some other group is gonna come out with "the next big thing" and completely overshadow GNR.  That's what happened to VR.  Do you think anyone was thinking that Green Day would out do Velvet Revolver?  No, but it was the next big thing, and it overshadowed Velvet Revolver.  When Green Day came out with American Idiot, it seemed everyone forgot about Velvet Revolver.  Who says that can't/won't happen to GNR?

People knew about Velvet Revolver before Greenday came out with American Idiot? :-\

Green Day the next big thing? Oh please.?Green Day is ALOT bigger than VR..even before American Idiot. They sold around 10 million copies of Dookie in the US alone. I am firmly convinced that 90% of Gnr fans are completely clueless. The topics and discussions on this board right now are beyond silly. ::)

yeah with Dookie, in 1994, but their last album barely hit Gold. American Idiot was a pretty signficant comeback and made them? huge again.  I never really thought about it but i guess they did take away from VR a bit.

The only competition that GNR have today is with the GNR from 1985-1994. THere is no competition today, sure, & GNR will go platinum, maybe 2 platinum (like VR), but can they exceed what the name used to do?

Axl was a GENIUS to keep the GNR name. He will be able to sell larger arenas, play to greater crowds, and do more than he would have with a new name or his own name solo. & yes, GNR has come a very very very long way from the disasters of 2000-2002. But still, they have a way to go before they can truly conquer the music scene like they did in 1988.
There is yet to be a song that will captivate a much wider audience outside the rock element. You can play WTTJ & PC & SCOM at bars & parties, and the music will have to be at that level (or even 1 song at that level) to bring GNR back to the top of the charts & make fans (somewhat) forget Slash.

VR could be a lil competition. their first record was one of the best selling / best producing / highest grossing album/tour rock record in 5 years & they got another lined up soon.

MNW

Ok...with that know, then.  Why did people still say that VR had no competition, hm? 

I'm my opinion VR took away from VR. They put out an average album then released a couple good singles, toured once and just dropped support of the album. They could've EASILY pushed that album to ALOT more success by just plain supporting it harder.

To me, thats what will push CD to big heights at least in the US; the band supporting the HELL out of it with repeated tours, singles, special appearances, etc.

That and a different producer. If that album had a real raw, old-school rock production style, I believe that even I would like it better. It's way too glossy sounding, and the vocals are severely over-effected/multi-tracked in a lot of the songs. It really takes away from the immediacy, which in turn detracts from the album's "savior of rock" qualities.

Yeah that would've helped too. But overall I don't think they even tried to promote it very well at all.

GNR Vs Beyonce  ::)

you're just realising this :hihi: Plus you know every artist sucks besides axl :rofl:

good. someone makes some real sense.

Couldn't that posisbly happen with the new Killers album? When's that supposed to come out? I really like their new song(When you were Young). I mean if they come out with their album near or at the same time as CD I'm sure there will be loads of young kids who opt for the new Killers album rather than a new album from a band that was around before they were even born.

Are the Killers even a particularly big band? I always got the impression that they're just "industry darling" types who get a lot of music press coverage but only have an audience among 13-year-old girls and a fraction of college students with a yearning for crappy 80s electro-pop.

No, The Killers aren't a "big" band at all yet.
"Big" bands are: U2, Rolling Stones, Oasis, GN'R (even if they are absolutely not as big as back in the days, not even close, anyway...), RHCP Metallica and maybe maybe Radiohead.

U2, Rolling Stones, Oasis, GN'R, RHCP and Metallica are the only bands that can sell out stadiums in the world and still sell million records.

That's so wrong nesquick. Robbie Williams, Dave Mathews, AC/DC, Bon Jovi, Coldplay, just to name a few off the top of my head are bands that can sell millions of records as well as sell out Stadiums. I'd even dare say Shania Twain and Garth Brooks could still do it.?

Green Day was not a stadium band untill their last album so it's not far fetched to think that the Killers who had a critically aclaimed debute album which sold a fair amount could possibly steal some thunder from CD if their new album is released around the same time. People need to wake up and show some perspective here. Who's MTV gonna be more friendly towards? A new and up and coming band like The Killers or Axl's new version of Guns. I want Guns to succeed, I want the album to be great but I don't understand why so many of you are under the impression that Axl Rose can suddenly come out of seclusion and turn the entire music world upside down with one album that more likely than not will be ignored by alot of people. Do you guys really think Axl is? gonna shift the balance of power from Hip Hop back to rock off one album? There's now way.? I'm all for having high expectations regarding CD in terms of it's quality but this inability of people to see the reality of it all is quit annoying. Be fans enjoy the music but stop with the stuff about Gn'R blowing everything outta the water and changeing the music landscape. It's not gonna happen. Axl is too old and young people for the most part aren't gonna relate to it. To think there is no compition out there is neive. If Justin Timberlakes album came out on the same day as CD, Justin's album would outsell Gn'R. It's just the way it is.


That second paragraph is directed at nobody in paticular. Just makeing a general observation of peoples attitudes lately.

beeing "old" is not a problem to sell records and be popular: U2 are older than Axl and the teenagers love them, Madonna is 48 years old and all the teenagers love her. She even represents the famous fashion-cloths Company "H&M". It's not about age. It's all about 2 things:
- Music
- Promotion/Marketing

oh wait... Bob Dylan is 67 years old... his new album is #1 on the Billboard Charts?this week...

I gaurentee you it's not teenagers buying Bob Dylans album. It'd be the same if The Beatles or Elvis or Paul McCartney put out an album. thats' not hititng the young demographic. Lets' see how well Bob Dylan sustains this. It won't be a number one album for weeks on end like Green Day was. His core group of fasn will buy it and that'll be it. U2 and Madonna are different than Gn'R becasue they never went away. They've beena  mainstay so there's the recognizable factor going for them. You're right it is about music and promotion(Bob Dylan was promoted on ipod maybe that helped) but are we really gonna see Axl or Gn'R management promote this album the way it should be? I doubt it. Axl doesn't even want to talk about it in interviews and in fact he looks annoyed when people ask him about it.  Is Axl gonna do an ipod commercial? he  should but he won't.

You've got a good point about Axl/ ChiDem promotion: Axl DOES look annoyed everytime he has to talk about the album...
Is GN'R promoted the way they should be? absolutely not. I think we all agree about that. Just look at gnronline... no need to say more.
You want my real opinion on it? I think the potencial is here, the new songs are good, the music is quality BUT Axl is scared of something, He is scared to fail. He is scared not to make a record as good as the old GN'R albums. Inside him, i'm sure he knows he hasn't succeeed to "replace" Slash. It's probably much harder than he ever though... i also guess his cellphone must ring 10 times a day with people telling him "Please Axl, call Slash!".
I guess he is probably under pressure...

It is truely ridiculous. It also says alot to me how close(far) the album actually is from being finnished. I mean c'mon now let's get some hype going for this. By not giving a specific relase date and basically telling the interviewer to "shut it" when it came to the album it speaks volumes. Where's the single, where's the promo, why isn't the official website updated? It's more like the official site on how not to run a  band's official site. Like Is aid in another thread in my opinion the earliest thisn album coudl come out is December 12th. And that's if shit gets rolling on Monday. Axl said "this year" I wonder if he was aware that it was the end of August when he said it. :rofl:

Bob dylan is fuckin awful man! he writes good songs that people cover better!
anyways on topic, it doesnt matter how old axl is, U2 is a good exam[ple, Vr is another.........