Here Today... Gone To Hell!

AXl said in the pre-show interview at the VMA"s, that the 2002 VMA performance was a mess and a debacle, why? I'm kinda new to this forum so i musta missed out why it was a mess. Can someone explain why he thinks that?

The band was not completely prepared for the performance, and his voice wasn't as good as it is now. It's as simple as that.

because axl couldnt hear himself due to technical difficulties and didnt sound too good

Axl says it was due to the whole new band thing. I thought everything was kinda off that night. Overall I thought it was an exciting moment, but a very poor performance. ?:smoking:

He just totally messed up Jungle. Maddy and Paradise werent too bad, but jungle was aweful, but the performance in general was cool. The audience went crazy

did people tell him that his voice sucked? i know alot of people thought that.

I thought the band sounded great.

Were they supposed to play Jungle in a different way? It seemed as though Axl's voice was the problem either due to bad monitors, windedness...ect.

exactly,axl blamed the band for the 2002 problems when the only problem was his voice.im as big an axl fan as anybody here so dont bash me when i say im sure even axl knows that the 2002 performance wasnt his best  :peace:

 
yeah jungle was off, but ?i though maybe is was because it was a medly of songs therefore the songs were squeazed together. but by that time they had already been out playing, and they couldn't get it together? interesting.

The true is Axl voice was bad at the time the band was playing for couple of years and the monitor excuse for who had done that before that era its just BS take the shit out of your ears and screaaammmmmmmmm but his voice is there now maybe even better cuz i was impressed with him in RAR.  :peace:

where should we start..axl was fat, dressed like a fool, his voice was AWFUL and he had more botox than joan rivers..absolute nightmare

funny shit!

where do poeple keep gettin this idea that axl was fat in 2002.he had a few extra pounds in 2000 but in 2002 he was as fat as he is now

That's a lie - look at his face in 2002 compared to his face now.

He's lost weight in four years, not a big surprise.

ok so his face might be a bit slimmer (due to his botox wearin off maybe) but he wasnt exactly fat was he.look at some or all pics of him from then.hes as thin as he is now

Tell me something. I was thinking, when i was listening to a bootleg of "it taste good don't it" AXL said that he blew his throat out and a doctor wanted to do surgery on it. Could it be possible that at some point during axl's many, many years off, that he had throat surgery, and maybe thats why his voice sucked?

And then when she said she was gonna like, wreck my car, I didn't know what to do!

I have no idea about the botox...all I can say is that Axl looks to be a good 10 to 15 pounds lighter and in much better shape than in '02.  More importantly, he seems to be in a much "Better" frame of mind these days.  I think he knows GNR is just going to blow people away.   :beer:

everyone thinks Axl was fat in 2002 cause of the oversized jerseys, which will make anyone look fat, cause they're so wide. but axl was in the same shape then as he is today, just not sporting baggy jerseys

 

 i think if he thought that he would have released the CD long ago. It seems to me that (mostly fans) think the longer he waits the "Bigger" and "better" the album will be. I don't think that. I know the fans will by the new CD. but he will have to prove himself to get "NEW & NON" fans to by the CD. He's got his work cut out for him.

It was a very poor performance. ?The vocals were off and the only song that was fair was Maddy. ?The band did ok but it really was a poor reflection of the 02 GNR...what we have seen this year is far superior (outside of the absence of Buckethead).

You guys make me laugh who criticize that performance so much.  His vocals were not the best, but the band was tight and it was a fucking huge event.  I think Axl only says it was a debacle now because some people shit on it and couldn't accept the new band.  Go watch it on youtube and tell me how bad it really was.......

Laugh away...just don't expect a large crowd to be joining you.  It was not a good performance. 

Still got it on tape, and watched it last night after I saw Axl introduce the Killers, just for nostalgia sake.It would be a lie to say that technically the VMA 2002 performance was great. The opening was awesome, and Axl's opening scream was unbelievable, but he simply forgot to breath during Jungle, and was huffing and puffing by the end of it. Madagascar was next to flawless, and Paradise City was full of energy, other than the band playing a bit too loud drowning Axl out a bit. I just remember back when it happened how exciting and ground breaking it was seeing the new GN'R out there and kicking ass like only they know how when the rest of the world was unexpecting of the whole thing. I can also recall I had just got my wisdom teeth removed 3 days before the performance and I was in total pain for the next 2 weeks. But during that 10 minute performance, I was on my feet and felt no pain! I saw the new GN'R on tour 3 times that fall/winter(i guess i was lucky to live in the midwest back then  ;D), and I know that in the next few months I will relive that feeling in full. The only difference is that this time I'll have a new album to listen to on the way to the shows...

Axl was either out of breath during Jungle or he was too occupied playing with his earpiece and wasn't concentrating on what he was doing.  The rest wasn't that bad especially Madagascar. 

The current style/shape of the band would've been 100x better. imo

well I don't think his image was too bad during summer 2002... it was terrible through US tour though :crying:

A big problem was Axl didn't sound that good, but there were other issues. The jersey made him look fat (I agree that he wasn't "fat during" '02, look at some of the concerts, he's wearing like 3 jerseys). Also, casual observers didn't know what they were seeing. They all expected to see the old lineup and were met with a very different image. I remember one of my co-workers the next day telling me "Axl sounded horrible, he's fat now and they have that guy with a bucket trying to pretend he's Slash." I'd assume that most people that watched the show felt the same way (non-GNR diehards like us).

Raven

When you sing regularly for 10 years, rest your voice for 8 and then begin to sing again - your voice will definitely need retraining.

I think Axl either didn't have a voice coach for the 2001-2002 shows or just felt he could wing it because "he was Axl Rose".

Obviously that didn't work out too well.

He can still sing like the old days (Nightrain at RAR 2006) but he's trying to balance his old voice with his falsetto/2002 voice in order to finish sets without straining his vocal chords. I don't have a problem with that, but it's weird listening to him sing in one voice and then switch to another in the same night.

I thought the band sounded good, but Axl's voice was weird.

this is fucking classic 8)

(http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/5649/gnrburn2vz1.jpg)

Actually... Look at the old rock in rio footage, he WAS fat there...  :-X

I saw it Live and I was very exited! definitely a great GNR moment to me, I didn't even care of how axl sounded, he was there and his aura/charisma overshadowed his voice's problem. I remember having those feelings:

Positive feelings:
1) "Axl, this is Axl live on TV, after so many years that's GREAT!"
2) "hey, that's Dizzy! great to see him again too! Madagascar sounds great"
3) "THAT guitar player who looks like Izzy is on fire...dawn... I'm blown away!" (Fortus of course - still the best!)
4) "the drummer is good!"
4) "The crowd is nut!"

Negative feelings:
1) " Who's that fucking robot? he is terrible! stop putting the camera on him, he is scary! and he plays like a machine, no feeling, he should have joined Slipknot!" (that was Buckethead)
2) " Who's that goth?? eeerrggghhh. Him + the robot WTF is that?. That guy is an ok guitar player though" (that was Robin, but I like him very much now in 2006!)
3) "There's just one guitar player who fits in GN'R out of the 3. Overall, I miss Slash"

of course now in 2006, lots of things have changed. I still miss Slash (as most of the old fans) but Buckethead's departure was a huge satisfaction and a real liberation to me, I'm not ashamed anymore by my favourite band. I still don't understand the 3 guitar players thing, probably never will, but bumblefoot fits much much more than...well... that former IBM machine. So now it's ok in 2006. Not perfect, but very good. :peace:

I agree... I actually loved the look of 2002... and that pic proves how badass he looked!

I think a lot of people over-reacted about him being fat, botox, plugs etc....

i liked that performance. that was a real band performing and not some hip-hop or r'nb shit that spoils our tv. axl out of breath, technical problems,... it goes with the show! it was rock n roll

The band were fine, they played the songs well enough. It was great to see those guys rocking out at a big television event after years in the shadows. Axl however was terrible. Nerves or whatever, they were the worst vocals I've ever heard from him. It wouldn't matter, but when your making your 'grand return' in front of the entire biz after years and years of rumors , to sound so bad was a disaster. But it all went wrong before the show started when they decided to do a medley. Terrible. A song or two songs. Bits of three songs was just a bad idea. After seeing how good they were this summer and how good Axl looked and sounded, the 2002 MTV debacle is even more regrettable.

Because it was a fucking freak show: it wasn't gn'r

I felt Axl was making excuses about the 2002 VMA performance. The band were great. The idea of stringing 3 songs together to make a medley was a bad idea (who's idea was that?) ..and while the band were great, it was Axl who appeared to struggle and run out of steam (possibly due to a lack of training/rehearsal)? :peace:

I think Axl generalizes himself and the band as a Whole, that is why he said that.  I don't think he's pointing fingers guys.

Correct! : ok:

Regardless of how he felt or how he sounded I think the crowd reaction was ten times better then this one where he was introduced as himself instead of gnr..

i have come to the conclusion that anyone who sticks up for 2002 Axl and his shot singing voice of 02 know NOTHING about the appetite and illusion days...they are probably 14 year olds who listen to korn.......

Worst vocals ever.....Ha.  Try listening to Tokyo DVDs or some on Live Era.  For a live performance this was good.

How about 28 and been a fan since I was 12.  I was just happy to see and hear the guy.  People need to stop being so critical.

he didn't say that at all, he said jokingly that it was a "catastrophy", then added that once they got going things were great and the crowd was great. get your shit straight and stop twisting his words.


i actually feel sorry for you, you couldn't be more wrong.

Besides, what's wrong with winning young fans and new fans? : ok: 
Guess what? Fans that know NOTHING about the appetite and illusion days are unbiased.

And maybe with jokingly saying  "catastrophy" he wasn't really referring to the performance? but the whole process of it. such as the earpiece issue, rush arrangements, etc..

Like others said, The performance itself wasn't bad except for the vocal on some parts of jungle.


Yeah, a presenter is supposed to meet with the crowd response as great as performers get. :yes:

Axl and the band look and sound 100 times "Better" now.  This is just old news. 
"Sometimes I feel like I'm beatin' a dead horse..."   

yeah you could see during Madagscar he even looked back to the side of the stage and made a "lowering" gesture with his arm since he probably was having problems hearing himself over the band.

even all throughout the performance he was fooling around with his ear mic and the controls at his side.

I agree with this, axl's voice was an embarassment back in '02.  Although I can look over his high voice because I am a die hard fan.( I'll never give up on GN"R.) But can any NEW fans of? the "New GN'R" say they like his falsetto voice?

I think it is totally freaky to hear axl sing in falsetto and speak in his normal voice in the same song. I hate it. But when i listen to the 2006 songs i see that axl has regained his singing voice. He still struggles with it. but it's WAYYYY better.

I became a fan back in 2004, and I heard his high voice and I thought it was alright. I had seen performances and realised that it had deteriorated from the late 80s/early 90s but I thought that it was just age taking its toll and thats what was expected. But now I hear his voice in 2006 and its so much better than it was. It's amazing really, I was listening to Paradise city from Boston '02 and then listened to PC from 2006 and its amazing how much more raspy and passionate its got.

Everyone was pumped up to see the rock god return, and instead we got some overweight botox'd guy in a huge sports jersey and adorned in bling-bling singing with a Mickey Mouse-being-raped-by-an-elephant voice accompanied by a band of goth-looking misfits with no real chemistry.

Of course, that's all changed now (thank god), but that was mainly why it was slammed across the board. It was still a major success for MTV, though. And Madagascar wasn't too bad.

And at least Axl had the bandana and the energy.

Again Axl NEVER lost his voice in 2002 he was just singing properly because he was saving it for the studio. Now he is singing like he did in the early 90s that destoryed his vocal chords because he is done with the studio work. ?Axl used the rasp sometiimes in 2002 and sounds like he does now. ?I dont know why people cannot understand he sang the way he did in 2002 by design

Exactly Dave, that's what I've been saying.  Axl was also experimenting with that new style. He was saving his voice because he didn't want to ruin it on a tour that he didn't want to do, especially with an unfinished album.

And please, we all know no one replaced his oxygen tank with a helium tank.  :peace: :hihi:

Not to mention he didn't even want to be out there.

I wouldnt dwell too much on 2002, it wasnt terrible but it was far from great.  But it probably enabled the band to be successful now, by that I mean in 2002 it was a completely shock look for the band, no one really knew who the new members were, so Axl was pretty much setting himself up to fail.  Now in 2006, everyones already seen the new band and Axl's voice is back.

Yeah Axl was experementing at the MTV awards in 2002 at sounding shit,  : ok:

It was an error, get over it you embarrassingly suck up fan boys.

I agree on that. People who are fan since then, don't dig the shit how GN'R sounded and looked in 2002 at the VMA...
The only positive thing about it, was the fact that WAR is still alive and...kicking

His voice back in the 90's (tokyo and so on...) was fucking awesome! How can some people say it was bad??? If you find it bad, then just don't listen to GN'R...because that's how the voice of Axl should sound: BLOODY RAW!! BLOODY FUCKIN' RAW!
That's one of the reason why we - old (and new?) fans loved him and GN'R in the first place.

The way they sound now is not the same anymore but anyhow I like it much more than 2002. At some points they give me back the GN'R feeling I once had...hopefully, when I even get used to the new guys even more than at this moment...then maybe...yeah maybe I can forget about the old guys (maybe! very unlikely...but still maybe? ;) )...

offcourse Chinese Democracy will make a big argument to judge about the 'new' GN'R...

Who said he couldn't hear himself due to tech difficulties?

HAHA,? ?:rofl: :rofl:

NO, Axl was not in shape for 2002, he was out of breathe, and not ready...nothing to do with saving your voice..
give me a break

and if that is the case, we'll have to wait another 16 years after Chinese Democracy, so Axl can get his "vocal chords" back in shape.

and Axl never had vocal chord problems......his voice was tired, but that is far from saying he destroyed his vocal chords...

Wrong! I have been a fan of the band since 1987 and have seen the band 23 times since 1990. So I think I have a pretty good fucking knowledge of the band. Some of your recent posts are pretty bloody opinionated (like the dumb post about Axl not being big in the states anymore. What about the Hammerstein shows being the talk of New York? And the lukewarm reaction to the VMA's - who the bloody hell said it got a lukewarm reception?)
I think you should maybe think a little bit more about your posts before you write them! Mike

woah bostonrose, how the hell can you have -5 in karma and not beeing banned haha i thought -3 was the most you could have but -5

As well as this

(http://www.gnrontour.com/sets2002/20020829photops06.jpg) :P



And 4 yrs later.....


(http://www.gunsnroses.us/news/IMG/jpg/P7310032_1.jpg) :D

...Axl looked so fucking ugly in 2002, seemed a poor man who pretended ta be a rock star? :-\

when i saw him in 2001 i thought he didn't use ta wear so bad, it wasn't so bad but when I saw him at VMAs 2002 then i understood that something so fucking weird was happenin' ta his mind, even i don't thik Axl's hair is honestly nice these days,

I didn't think Axl was joking when he called the 2002 performance a catastrophy.  I think he knows exactly how it went down, but who wants to go into the embarrassing stuff they've done.  I think that's why he said what he said about the band... but he also gave credit to the crowd who were pumped that night, cheering him on.

I am a HUGE Axl fan, and I have to say, I cannot watch that performance.  It makes me cringe.  I thought that beginning scream was AWESOME, but I can't watch anymore after that.  Personally, I think he might have blown out his voice because of that first scream.  And Axl was definitely not fat.  He had a bit of pudge around his waist, but who here hasn't gained weight as they've gotten older?  Compare Axl to your average 46 year old guy and he wouldn't look fat at all.

Someone asked about throat problems... I read an interview years ago where Axl mentioned having polyps removed from his throat.

I disagree. Jungle was the only tolerable part. The final chorus was real bad. Madasgar was bad. and Paradise City, while axl was singing was a complete train wreck.

I thought the first verse in jungle was good.

The poor performance is why its a debacle.

Eh, I thought the performance was alright - Jungle was average, Madagascar sounnded great, but PC really sucked on pretty much all fronts.

An uneven performance, sure - But I don't think it was quite a debacle.

I personally think the band played almost perfectly, but it was in fact axl that was off. His voice was too high. he screwed up a lyric or two and ran around WAY too much. He tried to show he was still GN'R with members that no one had any clue who they were. But now that we know who they are, They're doing just fine.  :hihi:

he was out of breath, fucking with his ear piece half the time, it was terrible...and he admits it

Just watched it again, and these are my thoughts:

Welcome To The Jungle really was BAD on Axl's part, but the band sounded great.

On Madagascar the band and Axl sound amazing, especially Axl on some of the higher vocal parts. The "we end together" part still sends shivers down my spine! : ok:

But then Axl goes back to sounding really bad again on Paradise City. The band still sounds great though.


At the time it was originally shown, it was great to see Axl back and all, but his shoddy vocals definitely overshadowed all of that unfortunately. I actually thought at the time too that it may have been done on purpose by Axl - sing the old songs bad to make the new song sound better, but I highly doubt it... :hihi:

That made me laugh. I highly doubt that too. I don't think he would purposefully make himself look stupid.

oh yeah? why does axl's hair is so fucking ugly STILL then?  he wanna look like a Jamaican girl who pretends ta be blond , I guess now it?s time for him ta look in the mirror cuz he's not a reggae singer, think so  :confused:

Axlroseven, get over it.

I truly believe you are not quite the full ticket mate! You need to take a long look at yourself before you post again! Some of your posts are not only very annoying and seem to be posted just to gauge a reaction, but they are incredibly odd! Just chill out and dont take life so seriously! Mike

The only surgery Axl had on his throat was in 1988...before the tour with Aerosmith..

Are you certain? I thought he had something done after that.

THE START OF JUNGLE BEFORE THE LYRICS - VERY GOOD...AFTER THAT...SHIT

MADAGASCAR WASN'T THAT BAD AT ALL....INSTRUMENALLY - EXCELLENT.....VOCALLY - EHH....OK

PARADISE CITY - HORRIBLE...

seriously...that was the BEST instrumental performance of Madagascar I have ever heard....just listen to it, even when Axl is singing....very, very dramatic and original.... :peace:

Not to my knownledge...I have read almost every article and interview and newsclipping since I became a fan in 87'. That year was the only time that it was ever proven and talked about as far as Axl having surgery , unless I am forgetting something. If I am...copy and paste an article I may have missed....I think I am correct though.

i think he was close to surgery in 92 but didn't actually get it done...but I'm not 100%

That is strange since his voice actually started to get better and MUCH more consistent from mid 92 - 93...the end of the tour.

yeah but in around the vma's and montreal wasn't he really fucked up? when was that shit goin down?

Yes....that one and one of the shows at Giants stadium with Metallica were the only 2 shows during that time where his voice was failing him.....Both were during the tour with Metallica.... :yes:...His voice sounded amazing during November Rain at the VMA'S in 92' though.

i just remember he seemed to be really straining himself...watch it, he looks in pain

During the VMA'S 92'?...nahh...just trying to hit those notes....your face looks like that when you sing and change to different levels of your voice...it is human nature..... :peace:

i thought it was a great performance apart from axls voice, if his voice was like now, it would have been ace

Ummmm...his voice sounded MUCH better in November rain from 91-93...then it does now....are you a fairly new fan?...... Ya know...post 93' GNR fan? It sounds ok now.....but better in other songs....not November Rain

I don't agree, and I'm not a new fan by a long shot - his voice is much clearer now and that is more appropriate for a song like NR. Is this another one of those things that you can only explain if you talk to someone in person?

On topic, the 2002 VMA performance was a disaster. He got winded way too fast, and much more so than ususal, especially for the amount of running he did - my guess is that he was either sick, or actually out of breath when he got on stage, because the actual shows from the tour had more running, but he was consistently less out of breath.

No smartass...I don't have to explain this in person....good memory though......November Rain does NOT sound as good as it used to.....we'll just have to agree to disagree.... :peace:

yeah, he said the performance was attrocious and when asked what happened he said it was just the band being new.......and i was like "the band sounded fine"  axl simply lost his voice in the middle. 

i was on about the 2002 performance

My bad dude...and you're absolutely right.... : ok:

he wore a jersey at the korn party this year. did anyone get a good pic of him there?

he looked fat with his top off, but nowadays he looks big, as in he has been toning his body

does anyone agree??

It's just what he wears that makes him look whatever IMO.

Yes his vocals were rather stable through the tour but No, the 2002 VMA performance wasn't all that disasterous.

he got off to a bad start on wttj after the prolonged scream and pc wasn't his best either but it was an otherwise jolly good performance. The band was great.

My guess is that it had something to do with his ear monitor and the rush arrengements.

im pretty sure he just meant the rushed arrangements as well as the mic problems. no one noticed that he also commented that it was still alot of fun and the crowd was great....

i think the band was great at the vma`s 2002. axl sucked....

i`ll probably never understand how some of you are able to like his voice in madagascar....    he was out of breath in jungle and had a whiney voice during paradise city, but in maddy it wasn`t even his voice.....       i mean of course it was him, but he never sounded like that before or after...  you get the point....    i guess that was an ear monitor problem. i couldn`t find any other satisfiying explanation for that....

 


-ok, u just want me ta say lies here when it meant ta be for discussing gnr's stuff
-so if everyone gets confused while postin' here then i should act like'em? not at all!
-Axl is a human being, not a perfect man, he?s just like us all so we all must speak 'bout it, don?t ya forget!
- 2002 VMA performance was a debacle just cuz Axl disappear for 4 years AGAIN after playin? that night there, ?.then I wonder why da?fuck did GNR play there in 2002 when they weren?t sure ta come back again? Not fair!!!!    :rant:

Um, maybe we like it because he sang great on that song. ::)

He was hitting notes I've never heard him hit before. The "we end together" part is amazing. : ok:

Agree with you on madagascar. maybe it was a lot better because it was quieter and slower so he could hear/breathe. I didn't think much to paradise city and I thought Jungle as far as his voice was concerned, was a fucking disaster. I was pleased to get hold of the leeds '02 videos, to reassure myself that they really were good, I didn't just think it because it was my first GnR gig.

Well dude your conclusion is shit. I am 20, listen to Guns N' Roses, The Doors and Pantera, just to name a few.
I was at the Toronto Canada gig in 2002, and he did not sound bad at all. Sounded great. Yes, it would have been better if he sounded as he does now, but it was still a great fucking show.
I think the longer that tour went on, his voice shaped up.

i watch the show and i love it everytime i watch it, i love how they merge the songs into eachother, especially from maddy to PC, thats great, if axl's voice was like it was in the old days or now (i dont mind personally i think he sounds better now) that show would have been one of the best they have done.

but all in all i think axl wasnt prpared for the show vocally, something realy did change his voice back then, smokin or whatever, but i think also he got over excited and started goin crazy on stage.it was great to see him running about, it was an awsome show

if only axls voice.....

the 2002 VMA performance was halarious!!!!

id say it was a damn good performance except for axls voice

alot of people, this is a GUNS N ROSES board, incase you're lost

I personally watched the VMA performace hundreds of times.  I thought it went well for a band that has so much to set up in a very short time.  Axl settled in a points and Buckethead's soloing at the end of PC was insane!

the band did their thing and I can't complain 'bout it, Axl's voice was down rock bottom but that wass hten and now is fucking now.

how can ya support axl's voice on that song? The "we end together" part is amazing? for God's sake   :o, oh hell yeah he was hitting notes we've never heard him hit before so that's why we've been so fucking disappointed since then  :hihi:

It may not have been the best performance they have ever pulled out, but it was my first taste of the new line-up. So for that, I'm glad it happened.

I'm not sure what you're getting at, I thought I just explained to you why I support Axl's voice on that song. ???

oh My God...u can't understand it yet........ :rofl:  ya like it because he sang great on that song? ok, it happens only while u r dreamin' but not in da real world  :no:  everyone knows that 2002 VMA performance was a debacle after hearin' axl'voice singin' madagascar, c'mon, we r all adult ta admit this  :yes:

Um, ok...

He sang shit on Jungle, he sang shit on Paradise City, but he fucking nailed Madagascar. I think you need your hearing checked if you can't hear that.

I prefer his 02 voice in Madagascar  : ok:

 what the fuck? his voice sounded better during other gnr shows in '02 but not at VMAs '02 how can ya say that then?? ?:o 

I lower my fingers onto the keyboard and press the keys - this then puts the text on the screen - I then hit POST.

Really, his voice is better in 06 but Madagascar is a song I prefer the 02 voice on - even if that Boston clip sounded mindblowing and I think the rasp will be awesome on a studio version.

2002 VMA performance was so-so...  The band sounded great... Axl was not so great on WTTJ, but was good on Maddy and PC...  The band's "look" was kinda funny as a whole...  But overall, certainly no debacle...