Here Today... Gone To Hell!

first off, a tangent question: Should GnR keep the name Chinese Democracy for the new album?? is it too played out at this point?

but on topic:

My feelings are this...we waited this long....take BH off the album, and put BF on the album. Its really going to be retarded when CD hits, and BH's amazing, amazing, amazing guitar-work is on the album, and he's no longer in the band.

of course i wanna hear BH on the album, but 13 yrs later....release the cd the right way....to wait this long, and make this big of a mistake, doesn't make any sense. plus, it lets BF really become part of the band.

ITS TAKEN THIS LONG.....TAKE SOME MORE TIME AND DO IT RIGHT. release the album next spring, and lert BF do his work this Fall and Winter. and that means BF cannot go playing in little clubs, he needs to work on the album.

AXL - - DO NOT RELEASE THIS WITH A MEMBER NO LONGER IN THE GROUP ON THE SONGS, MAKES ZERO SENSE. DO IT RIGHT...ITS TAKEN THIS LONG....

**and its not as simple as "just let BF play BH's parts live....i was at two shows in May...NO ONE can play what BH does, NO ONE.

I seen your point...

But what if some of the other guys leave the band after the US tour. Should they re-record those parts too..??

I say, release the record now and let B-foot be on the next album...

The Band and the fans needs this album now... : ok:

a dead horse but,

No the only main reason people are keeping interested is to see what this mythical album brings, no point in changing the album title this late in the game and confusing people.

And no Bumblefoots should not be on CD because that's just going to add to more delays, if it has been done then fine good but if not then just leave it the way it is.

Just release the album.

You are not making any sense.

If you think "Bumblefoot isn't as good as Buckethead", then, why the hell do you want him to play in the album? Just because he's in the band? Well, guess what, he could leave tomorrow and be replaced, and it'll happen again and again.

We've discussed this so many times. Have a look at the Dead Horse section before posting here. As far as we know, BH's parts will be in the album.

i see YOUR point, but how can u sell the band, with these amazing guitar parts, without the person who recorded them, in the band?!?!?!

actually, it shouldn't take too long.....i mean, what are these guys doing on a daily basis??? i mean seriously....THE SONGS ARE ALREADY WRITTEN, ARRANGED AND DONE....BF could record his parts....id say in about 2-3 wks...

guys, led zeppelin recorded their first album in a few days, and release a second album 10 months later, both are classics. it doesnt take all this time to record....maybe to write and record, but not to record.

let BF do BH's solo's and rhythm over (if there is any BH rhythm parts)....i know its going to delay, but seriously....when is this album coming out ANYWAY??? i say do it right...




and yes i agree....keep the name chinese democracy

and the idea that every guitarist could essentially leave, and then we're left with what, new players re-recording all the time?

thats bullsh-t.....b/c if more guys leave, we have bigger problems.



BF is in the band.....let him be on the record, not someone (as amazing as they are) who is NO LONGER IN THE BAND. it makes no sense, at all. i dont get how u would want CD, after all the time, without the right members on it.

nothing against BF, but id take BH anyday of the week....but regardless, let BF on the album. should take a few weeks if they work hard and stop doing whatever it is they do on a daily basis.

if they record on off-days....they should be done with BF by mid-October....release the album in December, just in time for christmas. or release in january....or, get the 2nd album together (assuming its been worked on extensively) and release both next summer...i dont care, i just want the right album with the right band memebers.

its like metallica keeping that douche bass player they had on their next album...it wouldn't make sense.

Well first your said spring. Now its 2-3 weeks..??

If B-foots parts is on the album and its going to be release this year, it will be fine by me...

I have no problem with Bucket's parts stayin on the album which i think they will.

When the band is great live as well, I don't see any problem there.

Was Izzy still in the band when UYI was released?

id want to hear BH too, but it wouldn't make sense. its taken 13 yrs, do it right.

and it shouldn't take that long anyway....jesus, the guy could get it done in a few nights if needed. this is not rocket science. if led zeppelin can release two albums in one year 1969, then BF could record guitar parts for 12 songs in a month.

yes

UYI - released September 91
Izzy left in November. And before anyone asks, thats not what November Rain is about : ok:

Speaking to a couple of people at the Manchester gig as they were packing up, they don't believe Buckethead to have had a massive influence on the music.

Plus, it doesn't matter if Bucket's work is on it or not, get Thal in the book with the band and have Bucket's credits in a really small font and no one will know the difference.

After all, if Buckethead can play it, bbf can too.

UM YES....IZZY WAS STILL IN THE BAND WHEN THE ILLUSIONS WERE RELEASED. AND THATS A DIFFERENT STORY ANYWAY...HE WROTE A LOT OF THOSE SONGS/PARTS....HE WAS A FOUNDING MEMBER...

u may say BF can play anything, and this is not meant to deviate into a debate over this, but BH is a much better guitarist, without a doubt. BF is AMAZING....but BH is out of this world. lets be reasonable here...

but u r right, BF can play the songs live as he has, but after 13 yrs, release the album the right way...thats my opinion.

I don't think it is about re-recording parts only. it is about style, mixing, what would BBF bring to the band with his playing and much more... I wouldn't mind BBF being on the actual record. Still think most of it is finalized and now there are legal/label issues that are keeping the record inside one room.

edit: @ W 23 AXL II
can you please keep all your thoughts in a single post and not create new post for every new thought/sentence? Thanks!

I think that 90 or more percent of the 'fans' are not interrested in who plays the solo's, they just want to hear new GN'R music. The people who are interested are the people on these boards etc, only a small part not unimportant by the way (don't get me wrong). Most important thing will be that the songs will sound great, and that's possible with both BH/BF in my opinion. And there are still 2 other guitar players in the band so it's not only a BH thing. Brian May and maybe other guitar players did some work on some songs do you think that should also be replaced because they're not in the band?? So I could live with the fact that BH was also some sort of a 'session' guitarist ?for the new album. ?

What is the right way? There will be prob a lot of guest spots on the album so who cares if BH stays on.. If he wrote or co-wrote parts of the songs then he should stay on the album.

if u think this album is finalized, u r out of your mind. there are obviously issues still happening....

and i am a producer....the writing, recording and mixing of new guitar parts should not take that long, a month at most, and thats with lots of alcohol and drug breaks. please, it could be done in a few days if needed.

WHy should Bumble rerecord parts? He didn't write them. Again, if Bucket wrote the parts he should stay on them.

Delete this thread before Axl sees it ?:hihi: ?:hihi:

I prefer Bumblefoot on the album...fuck BH, but i woud like to have the album this year so...

listen, i dont mean use BHs parts but have BF play them.....

im saying let BF write/improv his OWN parts....im assuming these are mostly solo's.....so, BF is good enough, experienced enough, he could record them in his own studio.....with technology today, he could record it on a lap top in his bathroom and then email the parts to axl....i dont care, do whatevre they gotta do....just record the new band member, master the album and release it....easy enough.

hum, but Izzy didn't tour for the twins?

Anyways this band is about the music.
They'll put their best head forward on the album(s), and their best foot live.

I used to think maybe they should change the name but at this point I think they should stick with Chinese Democracy. What the hell at this point..... : ok:

Easy anough for you. But Axl has a lot riding on this album I dont think he wants new riffs and solos written in a rush and then added to the album. I think he may be finally happy with what he has on there now.. Why change it? Bucket was a part of GnR and a part of CD he should stay on.

i think maybe there are two ways of looking at this

1. this is about Axl Rose, and who is in the band doesn't matter, there's no icon like Slash etc. etc. this way of thinking is all about AXL..... its Axl and a backing band. (if u think like this, then release the album with BH on it, doesn't matter)

OR

2. this is Guns n' Roses....yes a new band regarding members, but still a BAND. and a band is the whole part, not just the singer. (if u think like this, as i do, then get BF on it, and take BH off)


i take number 2....i want a band....a group willing to die for each other (i know i know..those days are over) but still, its the idea that its a whole band, and the members are SACRED.

i dont mean new riffs.....riffs shape a song. solo's are small parts that COULD (NR, SCOM) help make the song. i think Robin's first solo for TWAT is outstanding....

but if we are talking about solos, let BF do his own. but NO, DO NOT CHANGE RIFFS...thats part of the song....or, it IS the song.


how many of us really think BH wrote songs/parts?? i see him as doing the solos only....they said he never even came into the studio, im sure they never even saw him. i dont see him, hanging out, writing music. i DO see axl and robin writing however. those two seem to have a common bond: Make this new band work.

Those days are over. Bucket has a load of talent and Axl knows that so his parts will remain. I like Bumblefoot too but I would rather have BH on the album so there is the strongest guitar presence on there as could be.

BLS u r correct, with BH its the strongest it can be...but he's not in the band anymore, so for me...thats just weird.

band members are sacred to me...i know, i might be thinking  like 1986, when bands were bands....but if BF is in the band, let him be IN THE BAND.

its misleading to hear BH....besides, this is small, but imagine the videos....for the solo's, they'd have to cut to Axl flying out of  a plane or something, b/c they cant make BF simulate playing BH's parts. and if they do, thats just cheesy!!!

The name Chinese Democracy probably seemed like a good idea *all those years ago*. China is a changing place and their democracy while being different to that of the US, is improving. Having never been to China myself i cannot comment on their (China's) democracy. The Gn'R track Chinese Democracy is weak compared to some of the other tracks from Axl+Co.

.as for the Bumblefoot vs Buckethead argument, its an interesting one. I for one want to hear Bucketheads input into Gn'R. I have nothing agains BF having input into Axl+Co.'s music. What would really suck was if BF was to simply hear what Buckethead had created and then atempt emulate it or worse still add his own thing at too short notice.

Whatever you think, the members say the 8 guys together made the album(s) democratically, under the direction of mr. rose.


No worries. He wouldn't give 2 shits about irresponsible opinions esp when it comes to the music, I bet. : ok:

irresponsible opinions....WTF does that mean? how can someone's opinions, written on a message board, be irresponsible.


irresponsible is having a child but going out and spending your last buck on a beer.

They should definitely NOT re-record Buckethead's parts. Despite leaving, he was a huge contributor to whatever music the band has made over the last decade. Keep him on, let the guitar parts shine as they should, and move on. Everyone who has an interest in this album is well aware that BH is an amazing player but is no longer a part of the band. I'm expecting and looking forward to BH's killer stuff, myself

Right, suppose BBF re-records all BH's parts, then quits the band the following day. What are you going to do? Create a new thread on how BBF's parts should be deleted and the album never released?

Well I think your wrong and seem to have little understanding of what Ron has done in the past. He is very able to create and recreate anything Buckethead did. Will it be the same? No, because Ron is Ron and Bucket is Bucket. Ron and Buckethead are two of the most prominent figures in the virtuoso scene who constantly get compared to each other for good reasons. You're absolutely entitled to have your own favorites, but have 'm without marginalizing down others. Because Ron is in no way a lesser giant compared to Buckethead. And this comes from one of the biggest Bucketheadfans.

-PEACE-

If by some coincidence this is the holdup for the album, so be it. I'd rather hear Ron... he is a better guitarist. No knock on Bucket, but he has no emotion in his playing.

OK, being reasonable; what is your objective basis for this statement? They both have ridiculous picking chops, they are both capable of eight-fingered tapping, both can be very avant garde, or very rock when they want. Obviously, they have different styles, but somehow I just don't believe that you know Ron's playing(or Buckethead's to tell the truth) well enough to judge.

There is nothing fucking wrong with having "Guest Guitarists" on an album. Happens all the time.

"With Special guest Buckethead." Then include Bucket in the thank you's in the booklet. Mystery solved.

But for the love of god don't rerecord his parts. He helped craft these songs. Doing that would be criminal and would forever leave a blemish on what could otherwise be a masterpiece.

If by the "twins" you mean UYI 1 and 2. Yes he did tour. The tour started in May of 91 he left in November of 91

Guns N' Roses is a "Chinese Democracy" and Uncle Axl will do whatever the fuck he wants!!

yes, by all means, do whatever possible to keep everyone waiting even loner. ......yeah right

release the mother fucker, let Bumblefoot play on part 2 or whatever,


the time to release is now, plus bucket wrote the parts, let Bucket play the parts!!!!

when the intro ends...we'll hear the main subject

metta, It's reported that in Italy axl said he's not god and not everything goes the way the band wants it to.

kujo, yep that's what I meant and when was UYI released?
Somehow I have the impression that Izzy was once out before the release.

Ok maybe it wasn't a nomal usage of the word but
irresponsible
is also a synonym for rash, foolish etc.
As this is a message board, You don't take responsibility for your words do you?
That's why You say whatever comes across your mind.

Yeah they must keep the name "Chinese Democracy" for the album, it's gone mythical now (or a joke, depends who you talk to I guess)

The name, in itself, is a selling point.  Its 13 years of controversy and a big fuckin' "pending, wait in line here" sign that everyone recognizes. It's a keeper just for the history.  :peace:

totally agree

I read a few months ago that he said he wouldn't play any  songs in CHines Democracy, but do you think the album hasn't come out yet because Axl's changed his mind and let Ron be a part of it?

I can't possibly think of any other reason for the release being delayed ... they said fall, but no news untill now ... shouldn't it be time for a single?
Are we going to have another american tour with no release date at all ??

i hope so  ;D

The albulm will never come out. I expect nothing until it's on the shelf. bucket head is awsome. Bumblefoot is just a hired gun IMO. I think we are stupid to wait a decade for an album that's never coming out. Enjoy the live songs we have. It's all you'll ever get. If axl cared about his fans, his music or his persona he would have released it by now. And this is coming from a "Die Hard Fan".... ME!? AXl is an awsome singer but a poor human being.

No because the album is probably being mixed right now.

Mixed for 10 yrs. C'mon. Most bands put out an album at least a year or two.

Oh really, thanks for letting us in on the timeline and telling us about other bands.

Who said it was being mixed for 10 years? ?And most bands that put out an album every year only have like 1 good song on the cd. ?But I agree 10 is way too long, 5 is reasonable. ?

Come on, you know Axl just wanted a few years of vacation time.

I hope Bucket's parts will be kept, even though he's not a band member anymore. I've been a fan of him since around 99, and if his parts gets dropped, I'm afraid we'll never hear those versions. Ron can record for GNR albums after CD is released :)

There are a bunch of artists that have contributed stuff to this album. I'm sure that they'll put out what has been recorded, but it will be interesting to see who they have on the liner notes.