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Title: How much does CD need to sell for it to be considered a success? Post by: The New Fiona Apple on August 04, 2006, 01:38:35 AM What I'm asking in the thread is how do you think Chinese Democracy needs to sell for it to be considered a true sucess and not a bust and waste of millions of dollars.
In my opinion, I would have to see the break even point for the album to be considered a sucess among all involved is around 5 million copies. I feel the bar has been set pretty high with how well the Velvet Revolver album and the shoddy Greatest Hits album has sold among the general public without having the name Guns N' Roses. I think a break even point would be not be something astronomically high, but something that shows that the public are attracted to the name and the anticipation more then the nostalgia for who is involved. I do feel that it definately will sell that amount.? I feel that Geffen will not let the album go down in flames after the millions spent on it and the years that it was worked on. They will promote it likes it's their prime goods and will make sure they get their share. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Eazy E on August 04, 2006, 01:46:05 AM 5 million worldwide? or 5 million in the U.S.?
The biggest selling album of last year was Mariah Carey (or maybe 50 Cent), which I think was around 5 million or so in the U.S.. So yeah, being the biggest selling record of the year would be considered a "success"... but I don't think selling 3 million copies would be, considering it's GN'R and the amount of time spent to get the album out. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: The New Fiona Apple on August 04, 2006, 02:08:47 AM 5 million US.
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: ShotgunBlues1978 on August 04, 2006, 02:28:02 AM It depends on your definition of success. They have spent a lot of money and time recording the album, but $13,000,000 is not unheard of. Mariah Carey, Madonna, and Michael Jackson have all had albums that cost in the range of $20-30 million to make. Worldwide this album will be profitable, I have little doubt of that. It will sell at least 10 million worldwide and make back the money that was spent on it.
If you're talking about artistically successful, I think that yes it will be. From what we've heard at least in my opinion it's better than any rock album that's come out in a while. They have a wide range of songs and sounds and some great songs that have the classic GnR vibe like The Blues and TWAT and some great but more modern sounding songs like Better. And the songs are anything but formulaic, they sound a lot different and more interesting than what's coming out. None of the songs really sound alike Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Communist China on August 04, 2006, 02:32:32 AM I don't know, 13 mil is a lot of albums to sell, especially without a big single. A big first couple weeks from CD hype might be enough to get 5 mil US, but even with worldwide added in it still wouldn't be a success. The market for a GN'R album is fairly small, especially after the 02 VMA's, which still is the only performance most current rock fans define this incarnation of GN'R by.
I think CD will almost make the money the label spent back, and if there are subsequent releases definately yes. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: CDesigner on August 04, 2006, 03:07:01 AM personally, in order to deem CD a success, it has to sell exactly one copy, to me, and i must listen to it and love it. i couldn't care less if it sells 50 zillion or 500,000, as long as it's a great record. the only downside i can see to it commercially tanking if it truly is a great record would be that it would most likely spell the end to the current lineup and the only way another record would be released is if there were a reunion of a more original lineup. i just want axl to up and release the album already. all of the speculation on how many records it must sell to be a success is silly if it never sees the light of day. "fall, late fall..." where's the press release axl?
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Timmy on August 04, 2006, 03:23:18 AM personally, in order to deem CD a success, it has to sell exactly one copy, to me, and i must listen to it and love it. i couldn't care less if it sells 50 zillion or 500,000, as long as it's a great record. the only downside i can see to it commercially tanking if it truly is a great record would be that it would most likely spell the end to the current lineup and the only way another record would be released is if there were a reunion of a more original lineup. i just want axl to up and release the album already. all of the speculation on how many records it must sell to be a success is silly if it never sees the light of day. "fall, late fall..." where's the press release axl? I was just about to post the same damn thing... you've pretty much summed it all up for me Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: slashisvr on August 04, 2006, 06:27:29 AM i think it HAS to sell an amount that would be the same as how much it took to make at least, axl has spent alot of money on this album and need to see break even before considering it a success, then i predict a slow rise of sales like appetite if you like, no where near the range appetite in terms of money but just the way it took off!!!but not as furious if that makes sense
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: crofty on August 04, 2006, 06:56:34 AM I think forty billion. Yes, If an album was to sell forty billion copies, I'd certainly consider it successful. very successful in fact.
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Amish on August 04, 2006, 07:00:06 AM The problem is that a flavor of the week artist can sell 5 million copies nowadays. :(
I think that this album isn't so much competing with the amount spent on it as it is actually competing with Appetite and Illusion. If it doesn't sell huge, Axl and only Axl will be harshly criticised. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: NicoRourke on August 04, 2006, 07:17:53 AM It needs to sell more than 10 million copies, worldwide.
With the high expectations, the years of waiting, etc. if it doesn't sell good I'm afraid it will be considered a fluke. I mean, we all know there's such a buzz around this album :peace: It has to be groundbreaking. Maybe it will help calm down the hard critics ... Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on August 04, 2006, 07:22:21 AM No offense to "The New Fiona Apple," but this is a terrible question. ?Let me tell you why!
Assuming Axl and company have gone through $13 million...it's for 3 albums!!!!! That's about $4.3 million per album which is not staggering by any stretch of the imagination. ? Don't buy into the shitty "music headlines" which will portray this as a "$13 million album," because it just isn't!!!!!!!!!!! ;) I get sick and tired of all the fucking negativity. ? :peace: Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: sandman on August 04, 2006, 08:34:01 AM No offense to "The New Fiona Apple," but this is a terrible question. ?Let me tell you why! Assuming Axl and company have gone through $13 million...it's for 3 albums!!!!! That's about $4.3 million per album which is not staggering by any stretch of the imagination. ? Don't buy into the shitty "music headlines" which will portray this as a "$13 million album," because it just isn't!!!!!!!!!!! ;) I get sick and tired of all the fucking negativity. ? :peace: is axl obligated contractually to release 3 albums? or even 1 album? Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: requiem156 on August 04, 2006, 08:38:50 AM In terms of the media's reaction, it is probably not possible for it to be viewed as a success. Whether the $13 million figure is accurate or not, it's going to be featured in every article about the album, and we may as well get used to that. Critically, there is almost no chance that it will be well-received. Hopefully, the fans will feel differently.
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: jarmo on August 04, 2006, 11:24:05 AM It'll never be considered a success.
Too many people have already formed their opinion on the album. The reviews have already been written. "It's not the same blah blah blah..." /jarmo Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Nytunz on August 04, 2006, 11:27:45 AM as long as the GnR fans buy it.. it will be a success... + some future GnR fans... Fuck the rest.. They dont need more..
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: RancidPunx on August 04, 2006, 11:40:45 AM It'll never be considered a success. Too many people have already formed their opinion on the album. The reviews have already been written. "It's not the same blah blah blah..." /jarmo I respectfully disagree, Jarmo. For example, Green Day were pretty much writte off after the Warning album sold "only" about a million copies here in the states. They came back four years later with American Idiot which has been a commercial and critical success. Granted they didn't take 10 years to make the album, or go through a drastic line-up change, but a great album by Guns should be a success all around. :beer: Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Communist China on August 04, 2006, 02:44:57 PM No offense to "The New Fiona Apple," but this is a terrible question. ?Let me tell you why! Assuming Axl and company have gone through $13 million...it's for 3 albums!!!!! That's about $4.3 million per album which is not staggering by any stretch of the imagination. ? Don't buy into the shitty "music headlines" which will portray this as a "$13 million album," because it just isn't!!!!!!!!!!! ;) I get sick and tired of all the fucking negativity. ? :peace: The goal was never to make three albums from this. At one point they were going to make two, CD and 2000 Intentions, but that felt through. Just because they have enough material for three albums doesn't mean they meant to make three albums. It means they had a lot of so-so stuff that they wasted time and money on. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: codenameninja on August 04, 2006, 03:00:52 PM while i am expecting CD to be a good album, i have doubts that it will appeal to many outside the Gn'R circle. I think Gn'R will always be know for AFD and AFD has sold 25+ million copies. At a guess i would expect CD to sell 7+ million copies although i doubt it will break through 10+ million copies.
List of best-selling albums worldwide http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums_worldwide Albums alleged to have sold at least 30 million copies: Meat Loaf - Bat Out of Hell Alanis Morissette - Jagged Little Pill _Never! :peace: Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: CAFC Nick on August 04, 2006, 03:15:25 PM I think however many it sells, it will always be looked at both as a success and a failure.
It will be a success because it is finally out and (hopefully) the music is great and speaks volumes about Axl It will also be a failure though because the number one reason that the press love to slate Axl with is that there is no Slash, and they have gone through 8 guitarists and taken 15 years to release it. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: ppbebe on August 04, 2006, 03:58:41 PM The goal was never to make three albums from this. At one point they were going to make two, CD and 2000 Intentions, but that felt through. Care to source it? I've heard that 2000 Intentions was rumourd to be a tentative title for the album before it was named cd. about the point, as late as this jan we heard that they were working on 2 cds at a time. and later some musician who's in a few pics with axl said axl talked of three albums. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: D on August 04, 2006, 04:04:58 PM 3 million US 8 million worldwide would be a nice success.
Ive been saying it for years. The true measure on the NEW bands success hinges on the 2nd record, not the first. The first will sell a lot based on the mystique and curiosity alone. The 2nd will be the true tale of the tape whether or not this band is successful, same for VR. Look at Audioslave. Their debut did massively well. U havent heard a whole lot from their 2nd CD though. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Communist China on August 04, 2006, 04:12:58 PM The goal was never to make three albums from this. At one point they were going to make two, CD and 2000 Intentions, but that felt through. Care to source it? I've heard that 2000 Intentions was rumourd to be a tentative title for the album before it was named cd. about the point, as late as this jan we heard that they were working on 2 cds at a time. and later some musician who's in a few pics with axl said axl talked of three albums. 2000 Intentions and CD are two seperate albums. Obviously by now, though, the name 2000 Intentions would no longer exist. We've heard from many of the band members that they will have a 12-13 track single album, CD. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: ppbebe on August 04, 2006, 04:18:19 PM Quote 2000 Intentions and CD are two seperate albums. Obviously by now, though, the name 2000 Intentions would no longer exist. We've heard from many of the band members that they will have a 12-13 track single album, CD. and the source is? I mean can you give me the links, CC? We've heard about cd and its succeeding album. and I can quote their exact words. On topic, I think it will turn out to be a massive success in the long run no matter what critics say now. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: benchiefjr on August 04, 2006, 04:53:01 PM If Buckethead's parts remained on the album, I think it could hurt the quality of the album and put the sales down. realize you're judging from 4 songs...1/3 of CD. : ok:I think his contribution is poor. His IRS solo has no feeling, this is a great song but his solo is terrible. His "better" bridge are 80's shred metal, it sounds odd and uninspired, no Bluesy element, no feeling, no "touch". He doesn't play on Catcher in the Rye and guess what? the tune sounds good. Ok, his outro on TWAT is good, but it's not enough. Everytime he plays he just put the quality of the songs down. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: ShotgunBlues1978 on August 05, 2006, 04:27:06 AM If Buckethead's parts remained on the album, I think it could hurt the quality of the album and put the sales down. realize you're judging from 4 songs...1/3 of CD. : ok:I think his contribution is poor. His IRS solo has no feeling, this is a great song but his solo is terrible. His "better" bridge are 80's shred metal, it sounds odd and uninspired, no Bluesy element, no feeling, no "touch". He doesn't play on Catcher in the Rye and guess what? the tune sounds good. Ok, his outro on TWAT is good, but it's not enough. Everytime he plays he just put the quality of the songs down. Realize that nesquick doesn't know how to do anything but say Buckethead doesn't play with feel. Have you heard the 1999 version of IRS? Buckethead's solo is a huge improvement over the one that was originally on there. Most people like Bucket's contributions, including Axl because Buckethead's parts will be on the album :hihi: Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: SkiX on August 05, 2006, 09:51:11 PM Who cares? Just give us it already! >.< Its a sucess only if it sounds good :D
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Communist China on August 05, 2006, 09:53:27 PM Who cares? Just? give us it already! >.< Its a sucess only if it sounds good :D ...to enough people. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on August 05, 2006, 10:06:09 PM No offense to "The New Fiona Apple," but this is a terrible question. ?Let me tell you why! Assuming Axl and company have gone through $13 million...it's for 3 albums!!!!! That's about $4.3 million per album which is not staggering by any stretch of the imagination. ? Don't buy into the shitty "music headlines" which will portray this as a "$13 million album," because it just isn't!!!!!!!!!!! ;) I get sick and tired of all the fucking negativity. ? :peace: The goal was never to make three albums from this. At one point they were going to make two, CD and 2000 Intentions, but that felt through. Just because they have enough material for three albums doesn't mean they meant to make three albums. It means they had a lot of so-so stuff that they wasted time and money on. CommunistChina! Congratulations!! You not only got to hear material from Chinese Democracy, you've heard stuff from all 3 albums!!! That's awesome! I'm so sad to hear that it's just "so-so stuff." :crying: I sure hope you took some video of the interview you did with the band regarding plans for just making one album, and how they just pulled 2 more albums out of their asses! If you're going to be a hater, at least get your story right. I stand by my $4.3 million per album figure ($13 million total for three albums). I'm so sorry reality conflicts with your story CommunistChina. Don't worry, the press will say the same thing you said. "$13 million for one album of 13 songs? Axl? You really think each song is worth a million dollars???" : ok: Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: 25 on August 06, 2006, 05:34:45 AM "$13 million for one album of 13 songs? Axl? You really think each song is worth a million dollars???" : ok: To which Axl should say "Yes!" Because, by that logic, any future album compiled from the CD sessions would be "the album that cost $0 to make!" And, therefore, would be a "commercial success" after selling one copy. Hell, it would be the most successful album of all time, making infinately more than 100% profit on the back of a single sale. Best business strategy ever. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: markreed on August 06, 2006, 10:26:25 AM The CD will only be a success if a public-facing Axl (and the rest of the band) make themselves available to blitz th emedia. With luck, we'll be falling over tell-all interviews. The bands current 'radio silence' approach doesn't do them much good in maintaining visibility - it allows bystanders to speculate and those who know say nothing.
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Axl4Prez2004 on August 06, 2006, 11:40:16 AM "$13 million for one album of 13 songs?? Axl?? You really think each song is worth a million dollars???"? ? : ok:? ? To which Axl should say "Yes!" Because, by that logic, any future album compiled from the CD sessions would be "the album that cost $0 to make!" And, therefore, would be a "commercial success" after selling one copy.? Hell, it would be the most successful album of all time, making infinately more than 100% profit on the back of a single sale.? Best business strategy ever.? ? Hey 25, great post! :beer: "the album that cost $0 to make!" I love it! :rofl: Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: ppbebe on August 06, 2006, 12:03:23 PM the tone of the media/critics changes about depending on the sway of things. Premature exposure is not advisable as it would lessen the freshness and amazement. better not make people satiated with cd before it arrives.
"$13 million for one album of 13 songs? Axl? You really think each song is worth a million dollars???" : ok: To which Axl should say "Yes!" Because, by that logic, any future album compiled from the CD sessions would be "the album that cost $0 to make!" And, therefore, would be a "commercial success" after selling one copy. Hell, it would be the most successful album of all time, making infinately more than 100% profit on the back of a single sale. Best business strategy ever. The succeeding albums should be referred to as "the cheapest albums ever made", I'm not sure if this phrase rings better than "the most expensive album never made" but anyway, just the same each song in those would be worth a million, or priceless. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: GnR-NOW on August 07, 2006, 12:28:28 AM do we know for sure 13 million went to the album, or 13 million went to axl being in the studio which might be more then 13 songs. i know the ny times article said album, but the hell with them. I think its success by the major media will be compared how well the uyi and afd albums sold
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Communist China on August 07, 2006, 01:50:55 AM do we know for sure 13 million went to the album, or 13 million went to axl being in the studio which might be more then 13 songs.? i know the ny times article said album, but the hell with them.? I think its success by the major media will be compared how well the uyi and afd albums sold Well then it will fail. It will never outsell AFD, probably will not outsell UYI either. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: Jizzo on August 07, 2006, 02:05:10 AM 250,000 first week
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: duga on August 07, 2006, 04:24:13 AM Outsell Contraband.
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: nesquick on August 07, 2006, 10:22:31 AM I think it could sell over 10 million copies (worldwide of course) within 1.5/2 years. Don't forget the GH has sold over 7 million copies worldwide, with few promotion. Still in the Charts!
The name "Guns N' Roses" (old band or new band) is still a mass appeal for people. Plus, the new songs are overall quality. Of course it's not as great as the best of the 87-93 erea, but it's still quite good.?There is a mass appeal in the new songs, "The Blues" could easily be a massive Hit, maybe even a #1 single. So if Merck did a good job with promotion, Chinese Democracy could sell a lot. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: deanaxlrose on August 07, 2006, 11:37:45 AM now i can see the future. kids from all over the world sing the intro of better over and over again.
no one ever told me when i was alone They just thought i'd know better,better Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: nesquick on August 07, 2006, 12:01:23 PM ehrr no, the intro of "better" doesn't sound good to me... I hope they will change it. It sounded really odd Live.
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: oldgunsfan on August 07, 2006, 12:19:08 PM 5-7million in the states;10-14 millon WW
that seems to be what the top albums sell these days Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: give_it_a_rest on August 07, 2006, 12:41:32 PM I don't know how the situation is in the states, but the record stores over here in europe are also selling very much music dvd's these days, some shops have more dvd's for sale then CD's. So I hope that they are going to release a (Live) DVD after Chinese Democracy and then another album. Or maybe a CD with a bonus DVD (with video clips, live excerpts (how do you write that one)or something, which also helps selling more albums a lot, overall I think 10 million copies worldwide is possible.
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: CAFC Nick on August 07, 2006, 01:59:32 PM ehrr no, the intro of "better" doesn't sound good to me... I hope they will change it. It sounded really odd Live. Do you not find it catchy at all?? Sure, it takes a few listens to get used to it and like it (especially as its under the name Guns N' Roses) but it is really catchy and i often find myself whistling it. Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: ppbebe on August 07, 2006, 02:50:08 PM I sorta understand why nes is confused about the song live. He starts the intro in soft falsetto then all in a breath changes for the rather husky voice of the verse.
Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: evergreen_layne on August 07, 2006, 03:05:21 PM ehrr no, the intro of "better" doesn't sound good to me... I hope they will change it. It sounded really odd Live. Do you not find it catchy at all?? Sure, it takes a few listens to get used to it and like it (especially as its under the name Guns N' Roses) but it is really catchy and i often find myself whistling it. Yeah I played it for my girlfriend about 5 times when the leaks came out but we haven't listened to it since then and yesterday she was humming the chorus. It took me a while to figure it out and then I was like "yeah!" Title: Re: How much CD needs to sell for it to be considered a sucess? Post by: nesquick on August 07, 2006, 03:20:54 PM ehrr no, the intro of "better" doesn't sound good to me... I hope they will change it. It sounded really odd Live. Do you not find it catchy at all?? Sure, it takes a few listens to get used to it and like it (especially as its under the name Guns N' Roses) but it is really catchy and i often find myself whistling it. No I don't find this intro "catchy". Sorry, but it's nothing compared to the mythical intros of Jungle, Sweet Child, paradise City, Civil War, You could be Mine etc... you know... Robin is good but he is not Slash. He doesn't have the genius of Slash. overall, I'm not a big fan of "Better". The only part I really love is the outro. It's beautifull. But overall I'm not fan of that song. For me, IRS, The blues, Madagascar, TWAT (2nd part) and Catcher in The Rye are absolutely better. |