Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I was wondering what everone thinks the chances of Chinese Democracy getting actual fair reviews when it's finally released?

I just can't see (at least in the US) the music press judging the album based soley on the music. I feel that several other factors like the timespan, the newer members, the reviewers personal feelings on Axl will come into play and make for tainted reviews.

What does everyone else think?

the reviews will be fair.
they have been so far.
but people around here chose to ignore Axl's faults, and always blame it on the press.

i dont think they'll be fair. they'll be polarised, with it being worth it or not. the album wont be judged as of itself but purely on wether or not the reviewer deems the split and the decade of silence to have been worth it.

something around 70% against i'd expect.

My predictions: ?(a bunch of a-holes taking out their hostilities on Axl)

Stuff like "Not bad, but over a decade for this?" and "It just doesn't feel the same without the classic group" and "6 out of 10 stars" or "3 out of 5 stars"

oh hell, the critics won't even have to listen to the album halfway through to write their bullshit reviews. ? :rant:

Why am I so sure this album will be of top-notch quality? ?Just listen to the progression of the new songs. ?Songs like IRS, TWAT, Maddy, and Chinese Democracy (which were great to start with) have all improved since our first listens. ?Even the Blues has the added piano in the beginning which I personally dig alot.

It's going to be one hell of a feeling buying this album and actually holding it in my hands. ? :beer:

Of course they won't be good.

No reviewer could ignore the absolute farce that has been the band since it split up.

Although I love the new band members, as a band they have messed everything up. Instead of returning in 2001/2 with a single, album and world tour we got just the later and even that was pulled.

Now they return again in 06, with no explanation offered for the 4 year delay and still don't bother to release any music.

Its far from certain that any new music will be released at all, never mind this year.

If the reviewer just looks at the actualy album I'm sure they'll all say it's good - excellent but they will all bring up the (fair) points that it ain't gnr anymore and its taken 10 years to make....

Yeah, most of the reviews have been fair so far, I don't think there'll be a huge change on that when CD comes out.

 The reviews are already written.
They will say this.

It was not worth the wait.
Where are slashs solos.
This band is not gnr without slash.

well, stairway to heaven, estranged would not be worth the 15 year wait, so that part is true
Slash solos are in VR, we have Robin Finck and Buckethead solos
This band is not GNR. Axl should change the band's name to "Guns N'Roses without Slash"

The reviews will be highly biased against or towards the band.. I expect there to be some that are fair though. Most likely 75% biased in either direction and 25% fair.

The reviewer's job is not to review, or comment on, the "absolute farce that has been the band since it split up." ?The reviewer's job is to review the album in question, to review the music. ?If a reviewer comments on anything else other than music itself, he/she is not doing their job. ?Any comments regarding the length of time spent making the album are asinine because we don't know for sure exactly how much time was spent working on the music and how much wasn't. ?Also, it isn't like the band has been sitting there working on only an album's worth of songs, they've been working on three albums worth of songs.

Ali

CD could be brilliant, great whatever but it's always going to get slated for taking so long and there is nothink anyoen can do about that.

The reviews will be like: "I didn't listen to it and I didn't like it!"

I bet there'll be at least one review that will say:

Slash really changed his guitar style over the years.
He started to shread, and has evolved into a real goth :beer:

 :hihi:

Why is everyone being so negative about this? Don't forget there's been a lot of good reviews lately.

About the reviews, it's plain and simple......

For the good reviews, we'll all sing praise.

And for the reviews that rate the album poorly, we'll all bitch and moan and throw sticks and stones.

Don't believe me, just wait and see.

people will say it sucks bc slash isnt in guns anymore or say it sucks bc ppl dont think it should be called guns n roses or wwhat ever. And axll does not need to change the to gnr w/o slash bc guns still fucking rock the shit out of every show they play. and axl has proven he can call it guns n roses with out slash and duff and izzy by his side writing songs looks at better twat and maddy.

The only way the wait is justified is if it's the best album ever, which it wont be therefore most reviews will go along the lines of "good album but after this long that's pretty much the bare minimum of achievment".

The press might change their tune if all 3 come out after a while, then they'll be more like "wow, I guess Axl actually cooked up 10 years plus worth of A material over the years. Why the hell did he wait till this long to release it all?".

the blues has always had the piano in the begining....hasn't it

I think Stepen Thomas Erpawine at the AMG Music Guide will give it two stars.

Yeah, but it was also mixed with guitar work in '02, now the intro is just piano.

Reviews don't matter...The people will have the last word.

The critics will attack Chinese Democracy like a pack of hungry wolves....

Too me that's just a fair review, especially from Critics since it is there job.

Of course there will be focuss on the amount of time it has taken to release the record, which I am sure even the most ardent Axl fanatic finds hard to justify.  Still, the music will make or break the album, not the hype, and if its a good album the reviews will reflect that. 

Any music Journalist that is credible and really has a passion for Rock n Roll will love this album.  Guns n Roses has always been about putting out Quality records and critics know this. People may talk a lot of shit but at the end of the day the Rock world is very excited to hear this music because they know what Axl is capable of.   :peace:

Oh, so now if the critics dont like the album they have no integrity? Have you heard the album?

mmm.. but what if that is the case? what if those are fair comments? i would tend to agree if we have more than one Madagascar-quality turkey on board.

I think if it's a stunner, critics will have no choice but to give good reviews. So far, people have been fairly positive about the leaks - lets wait and see

The album could be a pile of shit with bad reviews but people on this board would still call it the press being hostile. Axl would rant and most fans would take his side even if he deserved every bit of flack he copped.

didnt you know?
some people would consider Axl farting fabulous :P

yes, although the 'get in the ring' style press paranoia is a bit old hat this time around

I agree. This album is a reviewer's wet dream. A true once in a lifetime opportunity to review a mythical album. It will be fair asessments across the board. The two of us are in the minority that think there is no media conspiracy against Axl/GNR. If the album is great, they'll say so. If not, same thing.

Regardless of how good or bad the album is, there is no way to sidestep the "Was it worth the wait?" question. That question would pop up no matter which band took this long.

Stop reading the posts when I hit this one. I assumed the reviews would be fair but, you are totally right with this "polarized" mumbo jumbo. Hahaa! Yea people are going to say "Its good but not sure it was worth 15 years." Fuck them. Fuck Everybody.


cocksuckers.

everyone will say not worth the 12 year wait

Where in my statement did I say that!?   

I Dont need to here the album to know that we are in for a treat.  I've seen the new band twice and heard 6 of the new songs live plus all the demos sound great.  This band is fantastic.  The rock world wants this to be great because there really hasnt been a truly classic album in a really long time.  They talk shit because they are hurt that it is taking so long, just like all of us fans. :peace:

what we've heard so far is not worth 5 year wait, (instead of 15 it actually took).

Speak for yourself. Seriously, your breath stinks. These songs are are gifts from the music gods. They make the world a better place. May I suggest some breath mints?

Thats a big bloody assumption. CD could be very different from what we expect.

And people here are saying the critics have made up their mind about how the album will be  ::)

I think the reviews will be harsh, I think we'll constantly hear its nothing like AFD or UYI.  but the truth is it definitely wont be like the other albums, Ive been saying all along it's a completely different sound with different players, so if the asshole media says it doesn't sound like the past and mean it in a bad way, then they're not giving it a fair review

I agree with your assessment.? The problem I have with reviewers asking the question whether it was worth the wait is that no matter how great of an album CD is, that question will never be answered with a Yes.? Its more of a rhetorical question.? I would wish that the merit of the album would not be put into the context of the amount of time it has taken to complete, however I am dreaming if I think that would be the case.?

Never mind what the reviewers think, do you guys actually think it'll be worth the 15 year wait with songs like Rhiad and Madagascar on it?? A 15 year wait for an album of average songs by a band calling themselves Guns N Roses that doesnt actually have any members of GNR in it apart from Axl?

I certainly dont, but I'll give it a listen.

If the reviewers dissect it and say 'it wasnt worth the wait', or 'this isnt Guns without Slash etc' its probably because its true.

Do you buy Ozzy albums and then say to your mates 'Oh man, this new Sabbath album rules'?

I think your way wrong about those new songs, I've seen on show so far and the new songs totally rocks. All old and new demos drifting around is nothing compared to the live versions. Madagascar is a really good song, as for rihad I can't tell cause i've only heard some early demoversions.

Better, IRS, TWAT, Madagascar, Chinese Democracy, that's a fucking good start to a great album. Give me CITR and things will fly!

fucking forgott the blues, that's another kick ass song.

Fair enough, thats your opinion. TWAT is the only really impressive song imo - the rest are average. I listen to them a lot, and they just never click.

But we'll have to wait til the album wont we.

I think you guys are wrong. After the concert in Nijmegen (Holland) July 2nd, I collected all the Dutch newspapers, and out of 6 articels, there was 1 negative, saying Axl's glory days are over, where's Slash bla bla bla....

5 articels were really positive, saying it was a great show (BETTER THAN 13 YEARS AGO) and that Axl found real good replacements for Slash, and they didn't even mis him anymore (neither do I)

I think with the album comming out and all, it will be kinda like the same, but they will say it should be released in 1996, but maybe they are right....

I think the world is ready for Guns N' Fuckin' Roses again...  :)

Nothing is worth a 15 year "wait", But that doesn't mean it cant be an amazing album. The "its not GNR" thing isn't a dead horse, its a fossilized dinosaur. Get over it.

 They'll say it's lackluster and mediocre. We waited over 10 years for THIS?

This CD has been so long in the making that expectations are way to high. It's almost impossible for this CD to rise to the occasion no matter how good it is. It's going to get trashed.

I think the leaks helped solve this problem. It lowered expectations to a more realistic level. Now people know it can be amazing, but its not going to change the world.

people who ever thought it was going to change the world were stupid anyways.....

chinese democracy will make my next 5 years from what i`ve heard allready. maddy, IRS and better live at rock am ring were the best songs i`ve ever listened to. really awesome moments!

wait for the proshot. the performance was absolutely flawless. of course it`s a matter of taste anyways, if you like the songs or not... but i know that i`ll be satisfied when i get the studio versions : ok:   and that`s what matters to me: if I like it or not....

the album will get lots of good reviews, but also tons of negative reviews i suppose....  i seriously don`t think any star has as many haters as axl rose. there might be many people who don`t like the music, but that`s usual. in this case however, many critics have allready written the basics of their reviews before they even listened to the actual music :-\

I wouldn't say that the new songs suck.  I love almost all of them except Silkworms.  Are they earth shattering like AFD was?  Absolutely not and that is why the critics MAY BE harsh on CD.  No matter how good it will be, IT CAN'T be better than AFD and if it is not better tha AFD the critics will say that we waited 15 years for something that is ordinary.  Will they be right?  A little.  Doesn't mean it can't be a fantastic album.  Just not an album that was worth waiting 10 to 15 years.  And Axl should've thought of that.  I think the critics would be more fair if he'd release all 3 albums at the same time.  That's if it is true that 3 albums worth of material was recorded. 

As for your remarks about the Ozzy albums.  Anybody that believes that this is really GNR is fooling themselves.  Is it a solo album?  Yes and no.  Remember that the rest of the band has a lot of input on the writing of the songs, selection of songs that make the album etc.  I would've preferred he called it something else but he didn't and I can absolutely live with that as I am still a fan of Axl's work and a fan of Tommy, Robin, Richard and even Buckethead's work (that's if his parts remain on the album).  And comparing the current lineup to the old one is like comparing apples and oranges.  And something that is not fair to either lineup of GNR.   

"Madagascar-quality turkey???"  You are in quite the minority there.  Maddy is a very intense song.  It started great from the first time I heard it, and has gotten better in the European 2006 tour.  : ok:

This is by no means bashing you, but that is a really dumb statement.  I guess you are trying to be funny...I don't think it's funny.  :no:  Alot of folks get their kicks out of coming to a GNR board and being the guy or girl who pisses people off.  I think this might explain some of your posts. 

If we got 13 tracks of Silkworms and My World Part II, I'd find CD to be a piece of crap...however, if it has just 3 or 4 of the tunes I've heard already, polished in the studio, I will know half the album will kick ass! 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion on wether or not they think what they've heard so far is quality music.  I for one think that this bands new music is great.  I can only imagine what finished studio versions of these songs would sound like. Amazing.

I dont believe the critics minds are already made up.  I believe the critics that really care about quality rock music want Chinese Democracy to be great. 

How long has everbody been talking about when the next great classic album is gonna come out, or how there are no more real rock stars left.

People are pissed because they know Axl has been holding out on everyone. And they rip on him every chance they get.  But at the same time would love to rock out to a new kick ass GnR record. :yes: :peace:

And that is just what it should be viewed as.  Another kick ass record.  And hopefully it will become a classic album (although CD is already a classic album due to the fact it is taking so long.)  And as long as it is viewd as that and not compared to AFD or even the UYI albums things will be more than allright of Axl and the band.

MY prediction is that most of the reviewers today are younger more open minded folds then those that were workng almost 2 decades ago, and as many of us here adn fans that have been goin to adn seeing the shows from hammersteain in may are looking a tGNR in a differnt light.

One of the most stand out things I knowticed while wathcing the bottlegs of some of the shows from the Euro tour is .....oh my god, most of the crowd is full of peple that were my age when I firstl saw GNR, in 87. THis in it self says something to me, that this band has become more than legendary, new line up and all, that people are there for this incarnation, there is less and less wheres slash goin on .

WHen the album comes out, it will be reviewed fairly imo, and by most publications, but ya know there will be always some one who cant over tikme moving on, people , and things changing, so I expect all the retoric of prefab cmments, such as , "it took so long etcc".


I had a indept conversation with my dad (who is a product of the 60's, ), as far as bands and such, and hes amazed how GNR has survived and endured and is as strong as ever today as they were for me back in 87. See back in his days his heros all died, jimi, jim, janis, and it seemed to be the trend . WHile the rolling stones are still around whoring themselves to daytime tv , and making music they seem not to really care about, GNR specifically the new line up are fighting tooth and nail to let the fans know and naysayers that they are gonna fight the system. And whatever , it really comes down to the fans.

And there are many of us far and wide , near and far, across the globe, and we are the most critical.

SO if we dont like whats going on obviously there would be no more GNR, in any form,!.

SO back to the topic I think reviewers will definitly have to look at this with fresh ears, and opoen minds, cause, on one hand you can have your pre fab review to dismiss, or your pre fab, review to praise.

Either way I dont think thats smart, either way your fucked. Just wait and lsiten and be honest for what it is for today, !NOt yestersday , not a decade or so ago. BUT Musical content, social relivence, and spirit that captures, what is now. HEll isnt that what happened with AFD!!!!!!!!!

\Yeah I know long post , but I felt this, and fuck anyone who complains about my spelling. IF your that anal edit it.lol.  THis isnt about me and my grammer! SO rock the fuck on!!!!!!!! :beer:

It wont matter if it's the most amazing album that has ever been released, the fact that it's been so long in the making will inevitably attract comments of 'a decade of waiting for this?'  It wont be good enough no matter how good it is.  Die hard fans like us will be grateful just to get our hands on the album, other people aren't going to give it the same chance in my opinion.

on countraire, I beg to differ, if it is the most azaing album people will say so, but them again even like AFD< and countless other classic albums that only time can rate. :beer:

I don't think the time span has anything to do with the review. I really don't think the people playng on the album should have anything to do with it. I certainly don't think what Axl does in his personal or public time should have anything to do with it.

I feel the the music press should be responsible for giving their readers an answer to this question: "Is Chinese Democracy a good Guns N' Roses album?". I feel that they should listen to the whole thing from start to finish and answer that question based soley on what comes out of the speakers. Not who is playing, how it was recorded, how long it took or anything else for that matter.

I just can't see that happening which is why I started the thread in the first place. I wanted to see if everyone felt the same way I do. It would seem that's the case so far.

The most important thing to me, is just getting the album. Of course I want it to do good and of course I want it to sell alot. If its one of the best selling albums out there, the demand for the next album will be big and we will see album 2 sooner rather than later. But honestly, the last thing I'm worried about CD is the reviews. Just some dumbass saying whether or not HE liked the album or not. It means nothing. I just want US as a GNR community to have this album, we all deserve it after this wait, and I hope... and its inevitable that it will sell a shit load of copys. (a main reason for that is because of the name GNR).

i dont care if the critics say that CD is not worth the 15 years wait.

what pisses me of is that most of the people who will claim this, have not waited for CD a week in their lifetime, let alone 15 years.

when CD is released get ready for some really hypocritical shit :rant:

too me, the only review that will matter is my own ;D

I think People who is doing this job are people that haven't come to a solid point in their life and so they trow their anger to nearly everyone they review.

So i don't care that much of this fuckin review...people will buy it because it will be one of the greatest record ever done not because it's 5 0f 5 stars rated or so

The only review I care about will be the one in Rolling Stone.  They'll probably have David Fricke do it which isn't the worst thing but his reviews are sometimes questionable.  He gave Contraband 4 out of 5 stars for one thing.   :no:  But I gotta admit when I first heard it I was really into it but it has not stood the test of time nor can it compete with any of the GNR leaks.  But I trust Rolling Stone's taste in music and I'd love to see it get a perfect 5 star review which they've only given to 2 albums in recent years (The White Stripes' "Elephant" and Beck's "Sea Change.")  Both of those albums are masterpieces by the way.   :yes: 

I agree with Rolling Stone more often then not and usually with David Fricke. RS has (in the past) been guilty of and admitted to reviewing an album without even hearing the whole thing. But Fricke is almost always fair and honest.

Rolling Stone, Playboy or the NY Post are all reviews that i tend to agree with

Queer. You!  :rant:

I've never actually read a Playboy interview but I've heard that before. I personally can't wait the lamest of all the reviews which I'm sure will be: Entertainment Weekly!

Why would theirs be lame?? That is the only magazine that gave a good review of TSI. They have always been pro GNR.

But all their movie reviews are negative.  :nervous:

Thats because movies suck now. :beer:

I can't remember any review of theirs I've ever liked either. That magazine has gotten worse and worse over time.

Well, I haven't paid much attention to the mag in years, but they used to be very pro-GNR. The reason it has gotten worse over time is the worse quality in movies and music.

My prediction:

Next GNR album; average score, 3/5 (or equivalent)
Next Britney/Christina/Shakira/American Idol album; average score, 4/5.

So why care what reviewers say? When we get some actual critics with more musical credibility than "I've been reviewing albums for years!" Then, maybe, I might listen. But for now we're stuck with the opinions of failed sportswriters and t.v. columnists and I, for one, would be happy to never know what any of them think about anything.

Personally though GnR is one of my Top3 bands of all rime depending on the version of the band, I really enjoed Christina Aguilera's last album and am looking forward to her next :o

Oh trust me, I listen to just about every type of music out there. While GNR is definately in my top 3, I still listen to TONS of different music. I certainly don't think that other bands/artists shouldn't get good reviews compared to GNR.

The point I was trying to make oringally was the bias of reviewers. For example; Pink Floyd. They put out a so so album w/o Roger Waters and the reviewers just shit all over it soley because Roger wasn't involved. Then in '94 they released a SIGNIFICANTLY better album that also got panned by reviewers again soley because Roger wasn't on it.

That to me is ridiculous. I don't think both albums should've gotten good reviews just because they are "Pink Floyd" albums. I think the good one should've gotten good reviews because it was a good Pink Floyd album.

I fear the same thing is going to happen to Chinese Democracy.

^^ I agree with that sentiment about the bias against Axl, and the subsequent reviews about CD; personally, I don't think it will get good eviews no matter how good the album is jst because of the facts you stated....

f you read a earlier post, on this page even, the only review that wil count to me is my own....

I also think he might get a fair review from playboy, the NY POST, and RS magazine

I buy Rolling stone (my country version), last 2 Issues. only because they had Axl on back (The greatest cover issues of all time) There are interesting story bout Axl in the past.and the second edition because there are reviews about Guns , Im so happy.altought it just only one pages.reviews about the Hammerstein show and the fight with Tommy hillfaggot.there are good reviews.
so i think i can trust RS.don't know the rest.