Here Today... Gone To Hell!

sorry, i know that this has been discussed several times, but i think it's worth a thread... especially because so many people make up their mind about it.

so my simple thesis concerning this topic:

if axl got rid of the solos AND the long breaks between the songs, press reviews would be different, people would talk differently about new gnr... it's not only the journalists that get bored during the shows. just watch the audience, as many of you have witnessed and reported in this forum... especially at festivals (i was at nova rock and people, that were fascinated throughout the first few songs, finally started moving away, i swear i had so much space in the front section, it was like an exodus).
the sad thing is that the audience basically is into all songs (in the older ones more than in the new ones) and that the show would be fantastic if axl didn't kill all flow and energy by presenting the new guys in that soloing-way. instead of the non diehard fans digging the new band, they turn against them (or to the bar or the way home). IT'S SUCH A GREAT CHANCE THAT AXL IS MISSING RIGHT NOW, cause this band is really, really good. the concerts have the potential to blow people away if they make it half an hour shorter, to get people to accept this version of guns. but instead they make people that have paid a lot of money angry or simply disappoint them (and it's not just one solo: we have the breaks, got dizzys solo, two robin solos, sometimes drum solo, bumblefoot solo + solo-don't cry, "beautiful" duet, fortus solo and the inbetween jams that are always the same recurring theme). guitar-practice is a thing to do at home, low-fi karaoke not the same thing as a concert...

ps: axl wouldn't change the show even if all gnr fans hated the show. if you critizice him, he simply keeps doing what he does but more excessively (just to do the opposite).

yeah good name for you



look this is a GNR show even the old band had long solos Just watch the Tokyo video and Matts Drum solo (how fucking long)and i bet people complained then there just wasnt the avenues to do it so easily

The solos are cool good photo opps and a time to text updates as well

One day it will be nice to see a post on people praising GNR whats with all the fucking negativity from newbies

I know some of you like to think Axl is still a young frontman, but here's the true, YOUR LIVING IN THE PAST. People change, people age, fact, there is nothink you can do about it. My point being Axl needs the solo break to get his energy back, he's 44 year old he can't stomp around on stage like he used to (and if you think he can I feel sorry for you)

I don't like all the solos either, I bitch about them quite alot. But it's either solos+oxygen break for Axl or show ending after 10 songs with Axl being out of breathe/enerhy for half of them.

during the uyi tour they had some solos in the middle of the show - and (despite the drum solo ?) not in every show, that's a huge difference.

i have seen gnr 2 times during this tour. and i tell you that it is heartbreaking when people start to get into the show and you think that gnr is back and then - from the first solo on - all the energy thas has been built up disappears almost until the encores. when people just stand there bored (cause there are sooo many solos and pauses) it's a shame, not a propper way to rule the (music)world again.

and just to get things straight. the fact that i don't post all of the time doesn't make me new to this board.

fair point sorry


i know what you mean ive been to 3 myselfand i see the same thing but i think there are quite a few ands that do solos and stuff the reason people are not jumping around and singing is because there is nothing to sing so all you can do is listen have a  look around take in the scene have a piss grab a drink quick and it does stop you getting fucking crushed at the front for 5 mins which i know is a big relief 

 :rofl: :hihi:

-PEACE-

Instead of the solos/breaks maybe it would be a good idea for Izzy to come and sing some Rolling Stones tunes  ;D

axl needs to have a brake so that he can get his air mask. he cant run around anymore like before and sing so hard. he needs his air breather.  thats why he have so many stupid long solos. he is not like the same as before!

If Axl needs a break, then the band should play songs together with someone else on vocals.

Just because GN'R had solos back in the old days, doesnt mean that it is acceptable. GNR were pillored by press and fans for being boring back then too. Guitar solos and drum solos are a poor return for your money.
Slash could get away with a solo at a GNR concert because he is Slash, a fucking guitar hero and GNR God. But nevertheless solos are self indulgant durge.

I thought Buckethead had some good ideas for his solo spots all the same, his solos were quite fun and seemed to keep the audience interested. I mean, Star Wars, c'mon, that was genious ;D
Big Sur Moon was golden also.

Okay, don't shoot me but, most of the solos I actually liked. I saw both Download and Hammersmith, I thought the solos (except for one) were well received.  And, not everyone wants to be jumping up and down like their on a pogo stick all night. The down time is welcome for some of us.  The solos by Dizzy and Richard were stand out for me at both shows.

i agree the solo's kill the show !!

at download people were just booing throughout the solo's and i got pissed off because as people have said everyone was really into it at first then as soon as they do a solo bit everyone just gets fed up!!

maybe just let bbf do his don't cry that seems to get the best reception!!

I was thinking,It would be cool if they cover some song,and ron,tommy,or robin sing instead of axl,they have good voice.
some song which crowd will enjoy,and sing along.some famous rock song instead of solos.I wasnt at any gnr concert and dont know if they(solos) are boring,but gudging revirews,they are.

or they can play just instrumental of some songs,so only crowd sings.

guess you understand what I want to say :-\

I think the solos serve as an introduction to this band. Not too many people have seen this band before.

Now they let all guitarists have their moment in the spotlight. Not just Axl.


This is nothing new if you've followed GN'R. They used to let Izzy and Gilby do the intro to Patience. Steven and Matt had drum solos. Duff used to play drums and jam with Matt....

They've done this before.


But like with everything, people today seem so spoiled. Everything has to be on time, everything needs to happen now, you have to get info as it happens and not one hour later or people will freak out.



/jarmo

Solos are needed IMO they give the rest of the band a time to shine when the spotlight is on AXL.

Although I think GNR have got it wrong at the moment. Before the solos were part of something ie Voodoo before and after Civil war melted in with the song. Now it seems like stop...time...solo...stop....song. Axl needs to get the solos more involved...the only one that is maybe doing this is the Blues with Dizzy.

I would like to see Robin's 2 solos dropped...Fortus's solo can stay (that gives rob a chance to shine too) and Dont cry by itself. Then a Ron solo which starts a song maybe before KOHD or something like the old band used to!!!

Fish

No fucking way. The fact that he's playing Finlandia alone, means that his solo needs to stay!  :rant:

I hope he plays it in Helsinki next week.....




/jarmo

Just opinion Jarmo, from the fact that in both Hammersmith and Downloads people were talking bored during his solos...and from a guitar player's point of view it didnt do anything for me. But if you like the solos then enjoy...just my opinion dude :P

Fish

the point is that - if axl wants solos - you have to integrate them in the set in a better way. plus: the solos stop the flow, so you can't make those long pauses (light goes out, nothing happens or maybe a jam) between the songs AND play all the long solos...

Exactly!

Fish

The solos give the audience a chance to rest too.  If you don't want to hear the solos you can go to the bathroom, the concession stand and not miss a song.  Does it kill the flow of the concert a little bit?  Sure.  I know they're not everyone's cup of tea.  I can deal with them though if it leads to a 2 hour plus show.  I saw Def Leppard the other night and they played maybe one guitar solo as an intro to the song.  The last 6 songs or so were back to back with no breaks in between.  It was great don't get me wrong.  But the show was over in under 90 minutes.  It's all a matter of preference I guess.  And I doubt the reviews would be better if they dropped the solos.

well I like the solos and I like the breaks... it is not just Axl show, it is GNR show... so let the guys play ;). Also to all people shitting on Robin and praising Richard there is a tip for you, look here:

http://www.4tus.com/ > pics > 2006 on tour

Get It?

1) the solos proves guns are good musicians, and give the opportuny to each member to express his own feelings
2) it introduces them to people who never heard about them.
3) if people get bored by the jams and solos, stay at home, buy a fucking greatest hits or a karaoke DVD.
4) don't complain the gigs are too long. it's stupid to pray to see less.

i want a 4 hours show next time in paris, if u ask me.
and i don't care if there's 12 solos in the 4 hours.

It makes sense on so many counts as well as the above it gives the crowd time to calm down too cause being at the front of WTTJ ISE and brownstone you can feel a little tired lol!!! :)

Fish

lol I kno what u mean... when I was in RiR the same thing happened, I started seeing so many ppl leaving during the solos... They gotta think of another way... but then, would u prefer to have a shorter show? dunno :-\

I think the solos are good but they need to tighten them up, a lot of people know what they are going to get Im not saying a new solo every show that would be impossible just change it around, lead into a song, different solos etc.

fish

What does the poster mean by breaks--do they take intermissions? Or that mean there's a lot of pause between each song? What? Just curious. ?
Personally. I lovvve guitar solos so I don't think that if I ever choose to see this new band that would make if boring for me ...I really like Richard's guitar work when he was backing Stinson's solo tour : ok:
(although I'm not laying any live money out until there is a new CD-2 or 3 leaked tunes-which I haven't bothered to hunt for-does not warrant shelling out concert ticket money...but that's just me)

How bout dropping a rob solo and changing the order of ISE and before that we get a Stinson solo :)

Fish

Maybe he needs to long breaks to catch his breath? You know he is in his 40's.... Id rather see an Axl that can carry a tune, then an axl thats collasping on stage.

It broke my heart to se so many people leave spektrum arena in Oslo during Robins last solo before Paradise City :crying:

worst topic EVER!!!

Why do you waste your time answering then? :nervous:

Mick Jaeger is in his 60s, and the Stones manage to find better ways to maintain the flow of the show and Mick's abilities.

by break i mean "pause";

i don't think that this is the worst topic ever, for i suppose it's about the major flaw of this current tour; (despite the fact that it's a greatest hit tour disguised as chinese democracy-tour...)

The solos do anythink but that especially Fincks, he gets more abuse for playing his solos then not playing them.

Oh please stop crying about it, people pay to see Guns N Roses, if they don't like some part of the show that they payed to see them let them complain.

Good point, i dont get the age thing, think of Tyler, Jagger (who has decreased but still up for it) etc

Fish

1) the solos proves guns are good musicians, and give the opportuny to each member to express his own feelings
The solos do anythink but that especially Fincks, he gets more abuse for playing his solos then not playing them.

that's true: as much as i like finck a s a guitarist, i have to admit that people don't respond too well to his solos: it's not what they are expecting from a "rock" guitarist: the fact that finck is not showing off with his techniques (skills) makes people think he might not be a good guitar player, which is not true; but true is that his solo-solos don't really make sense in a rock show context... his solos during the songs (with band) are in fact "better"...

I enjoy the solos, I don't think they are too long nor are there too many. ?I love the fact they we get to see each member in the spotlight and to see each of their unique styles. ?Those of you that are bored, have you ever been to a concert in which a band likes to jam and extends a 5 minute song into 12 minutes? ?I enjoy the music as much as the singing, so for me it makes a more complete show.

they are boring. axl should wear his oxygen air mask near the stage so he dont have to go back far to get the air!

I HATE the solos, but I think that I wouldn't even hate them as much if they were broken up better. ?Look at some of the setlists. ?It's one song, then a solo, then a song, then a solo.

Axl needs to play more songs in-between solos. ?I understand that he needs the rest, but the solos kill the momentum. ?I've said it before: ?People who "love" the solos are in the minority at the shows. ?

I do agree with the other posters who said that back in '92 they were boring too. ?But those were placed much better. ?I'd rather have one or two LONG solos, then a bunch of short ones.

This incarnation of Guns is really the Axl Rose show, I don't think that's uppermost in his mind.

I understand that Axl isn't getting any younger, but compare the way he does things to, for example DragonForce.  Granted they are all younger, but they run and jump around all the time.  They break the set up with a keyboard solo which usually runs into a soling duel - this never really lasts longer than five minutes, then they're on to play again.  If Axl's running out of energy can they not just play a couple of ballads in quick succession?

Greatest hits??? the songs played are mainly from Appetite RQ OYGM My Michelle were never released as singles

2 From Lies UTLH Patience

4 From Illusion + and an Instrumental YCBM November Rain LALD And KOHD last two covers and KOHD was played from early days

and then 5 from Chinese an Album not yet released

i would not call it greatest hits just some cool kick ass GNR

The solos are actually great  they show the talent of the band and actually gives the audiennce abit of evrtyhting.  Ive seen them this time around and they are awesome probaly one of the best live acts right now. evryone focuses on the negative not the positive why cant people just be happy that they are finaly on the road doing there thing and doing it well.  Im glad to see its not all about axl and to  be honest the chemistry is much better with these guys then the original line -up

to make my point clear: it's not that i don't like one or another solo... but it's up to eight solos plus some jam and a lot of breaks during the concerts; it's like some kind of rehearsal for many people, not a concert: and it's not that people are just a bit bored or randomly complaining: I HAVE WITNESSED THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE GOING AWAY at Nova Rock from what should be the biggest rock band on the planet; even some hardcore fans went shaking their heads! when you see metallica win hundretthousand people over, and even the bloodhoundgang can do that, it is a tragedy for a gnr fan, that the headliner of a festival can't make people stay! AND HERE'S MY POINT AGAIN: people were starting to really dig the concert... but after four songs the energy was gone because the solos and long pauses started. this is one (among others) major reason the press is giving bad reviews: this is not a good thing for the promotion of chinese democracy and the new guns; getting rid of the solos, the whole concerts would have had a different character, yeah would have been AMAZING

I only want to address the apologists who think Axl's age is the reason he needs to catch his breath during performances.  I agree that Axl puts everything into his performances.  However, his physical condition is being affected far more by his off-stage performance than what he's doing on stage.  He's bragged about his drug use in the past and continues to at least smoke and drink openly.  Just a few days ago, he was so wasted that he was arrested in Stockholm and should have been sent to daycare after he was released from jail.  I don't know anyone who can drink all night and then perform anything physically challenging at a high level the next day - oh, yes, I'm sure some of you keyboard olympians have, I forgot about you.  If you're going to excel at what you do, you have to be fit - mentally and physically.  All of the things Axl has done and continues to do have affected his body negatively.  He and some of you may think drugs and alcohol are fine, but they have a HUGE impact on your body.   I exercise frequently and know many people older than Axl who can run circles around him all day because they are conditioned and ignore drugs and drink.  Axl used oxygen masks as far back as '92 and yet he still smoked.   

I think one or two solos would be ok, in order to introduce the band. But for me the question is the number of solos; there are too many and they break the momentum of the show.

I agree with "whiny" because this is new gnr of 2000's and not old gnr of 80's/90's. this is the gnr reality. because it is there should be no more jams or solos of any kind at any future gnr live show. there shouldn't be because stinson, finck, fortus, brain, pittman, and even bumblefoot did not sign on gnr to only be a hired hand paid millionaire. they came to gnr for change. the change with the new songs they have done since 1999 on. they did not join gnr to do songs the old band did and to then do solos and meaningless jams sessions. this is 2006. not 1986. axl is living in the past. he is still living his "illusions" while the new guys are struggling to make their efforts come to pass at these concerts. the new songs have to be played. this is the bottom line. there is no getting around it. because international shows are the same as american shows because international gnr fan is the same as an american gnr fan in my book. which means axl should play the new songs for the international fans first and then do it all over again for the americans in the fall. i think it should be done this way. though i think the cd should be released in america first. but when it comes to all the new songs the international fans should get the treat of hearing those live first since this is an international tour currently. it's only fair in my opinion. i want it this way because it will be better for everyone including the new gnr members. 

Well this is my first post, I am a GN'R fan since 1988/1989 the first GN'R single I bought was sweet child of mine on vinyl!!! back in 1988 or 1989 I can't even remember. I think the new band is absolutely great and I don't miss slash and duff at all because the new bandmembers are absolutely great. I went to concerts of GN'R in the early 90's and there were also these solo's by slash (+10 minutes godfather themes) and matt sorum drum solos, back then. I totaly agree with the guy who said that people are bored very soon these days I think the concerts of 2006 are of the same or even higher level as those of 1992/1993. Axl voice is perfect these days (in 1992/1993 it wasn't!!!) and the solos are a nice way to be introduced to the other bandmembers, so it is not an Axl Rose solo show!!!! Tomorrow i'm going to th concert in Nijmegen where I also was in 1993 and I will post my review I hope it will be as good as what i've heard from the downloads so far.

I am sure that you'll enjoy the show : ok:

Yep enjoy :)

Fish

The solos suck balls.  I don't have a problem with the break between songs  I just think they need to come up with something else to do instead.  Maybe Axl can do a couple accoustic songs where he can sit and sing and not be demanding on his vocals .  It would  serve as rest for Axl and entertain the crowd at the same time . 

I can kinda see your point but this whole band is constantly evolving.  Its been going on for years and its going on now and its gonna keep on going.  So the solos will get better if they're even bad now.  All the stuff I've heard has been cool.  Fortus is talented and he deserves the spotlight a few times because he doesn't draw a lot of attention playing rhythm.  Big Finck fan too.   

Let the guitarists sing a song, like Dust N Bones and they could about a verse each  :-X

The solo's are truly dire - they could easily cut a good 30 mins from the set and still have played the same number of songs

Gnr are hardly the awesome live band i'd expected.

That's because they don't play enough of the new songs which will be on the cd "Chinese Democracy" if they did then they would appear the best live band.

You went to how many shows so far?



/jarmo

I would like to see Robin dump one of his solos and bring back sossego. I loved when he did that song. It was great.

The number of solos is indeed a relevant topic of discussion. If they (the solos) were full of brilliant, mindblowing ideas and were really cool, I would have had no problem with there being as many solos as there is. However, when a solo comes across as either dull, uninspired or jerking-off-shred-type of thing it kills some of/all the positive energy that's been built up between band and crowd and lowers the overall impression of the gig.

Maybe that's axl's intention in order to avoid complete havoc among the crowds (people being crushed to death and similar worst case scenarios) but still...

Having said that, it's good that each member gets attention. How else are the fans going to learn to appreciate them?

And I think ron's version of don't cry is cool. If he could do the same with other songs it would be interesting as well.

The Christina Aguilera thing would be cool and a good laugh as a one-off thing. not every show...

It is a one-off thing for those who only go to one show...  ::)

Not everybody obsess over setlists and read them online. Many people just go to the show closest to them and enjoy it.



/jarmo

Simple answer: play the new songs  :beer:

everyone thinks the solos are the best things ever and shouldnt be taken from the show! or everyone thinks they are the worst things of the show!  most peoples hate the solos and they are boring and people leave the show when they play so many long solos.  axl should know that most peoples dont like to listen to long boring solos between the songs and just drop them!

the only people who wants them to stay are the ones who think its ok to bite the security guard.

haha thats too simple! keep playing old songs and long solos and it will get a rumor of being a shit show! also no slash too.

That would only work if they were playing to the same crowd every night.  But they are not.  How many of the people at tonights show will be at tomorrow's show?  1 or 2?  Maybe up to 10 if they're lucky.  The rest of the new crowd will not know the set list from the night before and most likely will not know the new songs.  By new, I mean even the ones we on the board have known since 2002.  So with each show, the problem of the people not knowing the new songs is renewed.  If they do play them, most of the people in the place are just gonna sit back and look at each other "what the hell is this shit?"  I heard it at the Hammerstein many times. 

So they must play new songs for bootleggers so us "downloading motherfuckers" will be happy?

sorry but playing afd over and over again with a cover band in europe isnt gonna make a big mark on the music scene.  steven adler did the same thing before also.  he hast  to play the new songs someday or just quit again!

There's only one legit solution to getting reaction out of the new songs.  Release the album for christ's sake.  That's it, it's that simple.  If it works and becomes popular, people will love the songs and recognize them.  If it flops, then there's no excuse.  Enough is enough already, just release the album...I honestly think it's come to the point know where there is no way the album can live up to the hype that surrounds it.  It could have 11 November Rains and Sweet Child O Mine on it, but there's no way it'll live up to the unrealistic expectations for it.  Either way, just release it.

Yeah,  I agree with most of the posts.  So many people here are excited for the shows and for a variety of legitimate reasons, but for the average fan the excitement for the shows are not there.  The old GNR to them is Izzy Slash Axl Duff, and that doesnt exist anymore.  The new GNR is a band that most believe is a mere symbol of Axl's own egotism and insanity.  7 guys and Axl playing old GNR songs may excite peolple who follow gnr closely, (The new guys and Axl playing the old songs does excite me), but Joe Schmo rock fan who own AFD and the UYI's does not believe GNR still exists and without an album has no reason to.  A large stadium like tour from a new band without an album is pretty much unheard of, at least I cant think of an example of it and thats why these shows may lack the passion of before.  1/2 the people who go want to just relive the good old days, and the other 1/2 want to hear the new stuff.  The old stuff disappoints 1/2 and the new stuff is brand new and unreckognizable to the average fan. 

Long solos are nothing new for GNR or for many large bands.  Hell I remember Trent Reznor at one NIN show playing 5 notes over and over again on a keyboard for 20 minutes, he claims because someone throuhg a bottle at him, but apparently he did it at a lot of his shows on that tour.  Axl is an amazing performer and breaks are needed, but the problem with the shows I saw on the 2002 tour to me was that the audience was not one large group of fans, but rather two very different sets who went to the show to see 2 very different bands and neither group left totally satisfied.   MOst audience know the band theyre going to see and know the songs and pretty much know what they are going to get.  With GNR it seems the 2 groups each want something different and Axl cannot please both.

I really just pray he releases the album before another US tour or at least has a single out.  I think Better would be a perfect single to drop right before the US tour if the album isnt ready yet.  Many bands do that and it would at least let the average fan know that the new band and the new music is for real and they are going to see Guns N Roses and not Axl and some imposters covering GNR songs.

I agree i saw a LOT of people leaving Download hell there is a youtube clip of it

GNR doesnt have and prob will never have the aura that it did in the old day because not starting controversy slash is gone and so is izzy.

But the band could do more to promote their stuff, at the mo it still feels like Axl is trying to find his feet at each show, not coming on and owning and being the rock and roll I dont give a shit star that he was before. Things change and GNR has changed, im sure they will lose a lot of old fans but gain new too!!

Fish

I am tired of this BS where A LOT of people were leaving the download show. It was a damn festival, and the people leaving were the emo kids, who fucking cares. Look at PC from that show, and when they pan the crowd, there are thousands of people there and you cant even tell anyone left. The people leaving the show were not there to see guns n roses, is that simple

did you guys see this on the website youtube



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4FgiqnSBOQ&search=guns%20n%27%20roses%202006

yep! i hope axl saw it too... silly solos all nite long isnt what most ppl want to see!

It seems like alot of the people leaving were there to hear other bands. It is not unheard of at festivals and should not be read into too much. Hell, if Aerosmith or Metallica were on after GnR I would have walked out.

Like I said those are all the emo kids leaving who did not even go to see gnr, so who fucking cares.
Look at this and look at all the people at the end of gnrs set.

 http://www.newgnr.com/dloads/video/donnington06paradisecity-newgnrcom.mpg

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-Ma03KY5xo&search=guns%20n%20roses%20paradise%20city

actually footage is taken during a solo, so it's into the gunners set

Its half way thru gnrs set while coinsides with the 2nd stage set getting over.? : ok:

Also look at it like this. When other bands were playing they did not have nearly as many people watching as when gnr did because they had other bands playing on other stages. So even though a few hundren may have left half way thru gnrs set they still were watched by the most people but of course the bashes dont see it like that.

if axl plays the new songs then all the negative rumors fade away 

Good Lord, I forgot all about Matt's solo. That was fucking boring as all get out. Most of the Tokyo '92 DVD (2) is solos.

I do miss Buckethead's solo :'(

They should keep Robin's solos and sacrifice the rest for  TWAT.... the long version.

totally agreed

i like the solos ...axl need his rest to give a good perfermance ..... remember back in the 90is?....haha fucking borng dumsolo+bassolo 30 minuts ....what a waste of time ..