Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Hey there,

Was at all Uk shows just gone, and Bumblefoot is a legend. 3 times at Download he gave me a salute as I was in the front row and I dont care wat people say, the Dont Cry solo is genius.

My question is, with the solo in TWAT nailed on the 12th May...is BBF's talents going to waste. As in the other songs you can barely hear him and he tends to shred...should Axl put his volume up and tell him to slow down and play with feeling because he sure can. Just the solo in TWAT is spot on and if he was in the band for 2 weeks..it's an awesome effort!!!

Fish

the dont cry solo is genius coz slash wrote it. the TWAT solo he didnt write that either.  he should just play his parts and be thankfull that he is playing with Axl. 

He is good but i dont think he is a legend

THe dont cry solo he plays is FAR from slash playing it, and Im a slash nut anyone would know that the melody he uses is from the song....but what he does is his own work.

and with TWAT that is my point...if he can nail the solo should he be used to recreate the sound of the guitar parts and be turned up rather than sometimes simply blasting at lightning pace and not being able to hear him!

Fish

hi is cool i agree.  I like him too. maybe we can see what he will write for guns n roses someday.

at least he doesnt do that high legs thing/step that fink does. dancing like he got a bunch of old chewed gum on the bottome of his shoes! or even worse he stepped in a dog shits!! haha so redicuous that moves fink does.

i hope that ron will write some music for guns n roses and not just play slash and buckhead parts but i dunno really!!

His own work? Come on, it's based on the melody progress made by Slash/Izzy.

The foot guitar broke.

good. it was silly

the only anoying thing about him is that he uses the les paul way to high, kinda like angus young, but not as cool. not cool at all actually. that guitar is supposed to be near the crotch, above that line is just lame!  :hihi:

What Bumble did with Dont Cry is fantastic....it's the same as Rob/Rich did with Beautiful make it their own whilst still recognising and keeping the original melody...it's an art form in itself

Fish

yep!! its supposed to be worn low. like a gunslingers belt!  didnt axl say that he has to force bbf to use the les paul?  he does wear it too high on his chest.  im glad the foot guitar is broken so maybe he can learn the les paul like slashs.

"He tends to shred ... slow down and play with feeling" ::)

Why is it that in the world of GNR's meandering pentatonic licks people always feel a need to qualify shred and speedier playing in general as emotionless? In other established styles of music, even the most evolved like jazz and classical music, speed is just as much of an element for the expression of emotion then all the others. Anywayz, here's Ron's take on the whole shredding-deal:

'According to Webster's Dictionary, shred means to cut, tear, come apart or break up into narrow strips. In guitarist sub-culture, it refers to the ability to utilise advanced finger techniques with precision and speed. All too often in our quest to shred, we lose sight of our objective -- to make MUSIC, not run a finger race. Yet equally important is the conviction we apply to our music -- the attitude. These two components create our identities that we wish to portray to the listeners. Picture the Zodiac scale of Libra, with musicality on the left and attitude on the right. Every musician distributes the weight on their scale differently from each other to acquire their own balance. Good shredding is putting all your weight on both sides of the scale. Great shredding is cheddar cheese on a taco.'

-Ron Thal-


Shredding has come a long way since players like Holdsworth, Gambale, Buckethead and Thal injected it with their endless creativity, it's not necessarily about guitargymnastics ? la Francesco Fareri. Ron is already a legend based on his solo material (which ranks up with the best , both in composition as in skill and is credited for it by the best) and his pioneering on the fretless guitar. 

-PEACE-

If you want to judge for yourselves here are two videos of each players guitar work:

Bumblefoot - Don't Cry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHLlNf7MNlY

Slash - Solo Don't Cry:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9UkCDIyqBs

good point....I never heard of the guy till he joined GnR.... :hihi:

too be a legend, shouldn't you have a few songs that you automatically think of that guitarist ???

just an opinion ;D

If you knew or were clued up about music and guitar Bumblefoot is given raging reviews by Joe Satriani so he is a legend. Just because he did not make it majorly big doesnt mean he isnt one of the greatest talents out there. Look for vids/samples he plays fretless guitar better than most can play normal. His injection into GNR is awesome...he's just a wasted talent in my opinion.

Fish

i dont know what are his injections to GnR that are awsome? hes just playing slashs parts with 1 other guy who has gum stuck to his shoes!   his talent will be shown when he writes soemthing for guns n roses that is as good or better than slashes songs. 

Popularity is in no way a indication of quality. To many people the greatest player ever was Shawn Lane (RIP) for very good reasons, however most people out there have never heard about him and never will.

-PEACE-

My opinion? One has nothing to do with the other, except for the melody.

But then again, I'm not a guitar expert.

My opinion:
Bumblefoot = excellent guitar player!

but after looking at the youtube video's.....Slash = more Guns player! God I miss him!

Men, those were the days, no boring solo's...it was fuckin slash man!

Dude, Slash owns this dude. I'm sorry I support the new band and have traveled far at considerable cost to see them but not a single current guitarist can hold Slash's jock.

 :beer:

Do you know what really annoys me about bumblefoot...the fact that he is the worlds biggest douchebag. ?Reasons?

1. ?He goes by the name "Bumblefoot"
2. ?He wears spongebob squarepants t-shirts
3. ?He plays a foot guitar
4. ?He makes press releases to confirm his total sobriety and love for his wife and he is most likely telling the truth.
5. ?He is fat
6. ?He makes gay faces when he plays.
7. ?People repeat over and over that, "Joe Satriani gave him a good review"... seriously, you all think Axl is god and Axl gave 50 cent and Mambo Number 5 good reviews, just because someone is a musician doesnt mean they always have the best tastes. ?Also, A lot of people gave Bullet For My Valentine good reviews (including Axl) ?and I think we all heard how terrible they are.
8. ?He just shreds and never plays anything with any soul at all. (reason why Dont Cry is different).
9. ?He is nothing but a glorified road guitarist yet people want Buckethead back so much they are making it sound like this guy wrote the whole CD.
10. ?Everyone says he is so good now and world renowned etc... the dude was playing 200 people capacity night clubs wearing a tye dyed spongebob shirt and playing a foot guitar 2 months ago...seriously hes a douche who got a lucky break. ?Hes one step above the fat guy on youtube who plays keyboards moderately well and sings about Spacecamp and Bittorrents.

i agree with you man! you tell the truth here in your post. he is not slash and has never written any songs for Guns n Roses and he probobly never will.

You tell the truth here!!! good job!

Good job seperating yourself from all the other noobs who seem to only post on this board for the sake of cheap provocation. Since I was one of the people mentioning Satriani?I really would like you to refrain from the Axl nutswinging hints. Axl is no God for me and never will be. I have countless arguments to not trust Axl totally on judging fellow musicians. I only trust him with his own stuff. I have however no reason to doubt the man who was responsible for teaching Steve Vai and who based on his own material has been one of the leading virtuosos for more then two decades. To sum it up: that post makes about as much sense as the one in which you were asking people to not sing along with the band.? Good luck getting some sense of reality.

-PEACE-

So...?

He only cleared a couple of things up. So, you are saying the local media spins his name into a lie and he has to stay quiet, knowing that it'll hurt people he cares about?

Have you heard his solo work?

He plays Don't Cry because he wants to, he knows we enjoy it, Axl didn't ask him to play it, nor is he there to copy Slash. Don't like it? Don't listen to it, don't go to the shows, he won't stop playing it because a couple of idiots can't get over Slash.





Geez. Get a grip.

You're sounding like a broken record already.


Go listen to the KOHD from this tour.

 Slash all the way man. That dude could play Guitar like no other. He belonged with this Band.

yes he does. he could play and write songs and he didnt just play the parts of others. and he dont have a foot guitar or a buckethead or gum on his foot.

I can't believe this is still going on! People, Slash is not in the band. If that ruins it for you, then stop paying attention - it's quite simple. Actually, if you haven't heard, Slash is in another band called Velvet Revolver. Like many famous bands, they also have web sites dedicated to them, and I'm sure that everyone there would agree with you that Slash is the best guitar player who ever lived because he wears the guitar low, and never looks like he has stepped in gum.

Since when are music fans so image conscious? He wears the guitar too high, he moves like he stepped in gum, he's fat...man, you people are superficial. I've met teenage girls with more mature taste.

I've been wondering about that for as long as I'm a member of this board.

I guess that little things, affect little minds.

-PEACE-

You know, we've heard the SLASH IS GN'R AND BELONGS IN THE BAND DUHHHHH argument alot.

If you want to resurrect a very dead horse, take it somewhere else.

and you know what?
don't cry wasn't written by slash, but by IZZY!

Did you ever see the Making of Dont Cry? the documentry? everyone says that they wrote it! Slash, Duff, Shannon Hoon, Josh Richman, Axl... They all say the wrote it!! It is only a joke tho.

but i know one person who didnt and hes got a broken foot guiter!!!

Duuuuuuuuuuuude, why are you being such a dick?


I could spend the whole day listing some cool stuff Ron wrote.

Get over it already.

the topics of this thread is annoying thing about bumblefoot.  i didnt start it! i like him and i think hes good too!!!!!! but hes not perfect player either! ok?!!

rock n' roll and perfection dont match together very well.

Wow, really? I thought he was perfect, I'm truly disappointed......


What are you trying to say? You think he's good? Didn't you agree with the bullshit AxlRose4eva1 said up there?

this wasnt a slash vs bbf debate - they are very diff players, bbf can play things speed wise slash counldnt im sure but slash for sure has more feeling although bbf has bucketloads (excuse the pun)

BBF can do it all - he can shred, play with feeling or do weird things. The foot guitar doesnt annoy me - damn vai plays with a heart guitar but he still is up there with one of the most talented. All im saying is that where Axl gets Robin to play the ISE, min SCOM solo etc i dont get why BBF doesnt do it - he is more talented than Finck and plays with style. For anyone says he just stands there with no emotion - you clearly havent seen him live. He's all over the place I even played (strummed) his guitar when he came to the front of Download!!

Fish

nvm forget it all.

I love it when we get a bunch of noobs at one time on the board. ?They all spew the same hate and write the same bullshit. ::)

Agreed Thorazine Shuffle!!

Fish

hes ok. hes not bad. hes not as good as slash.  he never write any songs for GnR yet so you can only say he plays slashes songs ok!!!!?? u get it now? hes not anything yet. just only another guitar player. 

Won't somebody tell me what is real?  ;)



Ron's an awesome musician.  I'd recommend anyone who hasn't already checked out his solo stuff, really should before passing judgement.

lmfao!! Yeah, that's exactly where I got it from!?  :D  ;D

superb - agreed and all im saying is that BBF could play slash's parts well he tears the end of Nov Rain, the 2 solos in SCOM and WTTJ.

Fish

I don't think Robin and Richard would agree  ;D

I'm sure when the album is out, and there is more new material in the set, the individuals will have the chance to shine without the burden of comparison.

Ron is a great player and has his own style. Why would he play the parts just like Slash or BH for that matter, that is just dumb. For all the people bitching think about this. Did the orginal gnr play KODH or LALD just like the orginal? NO they changed them big time and made them their own, but of course you were not bitching they dont play them just like dylan did or wings did now did  you?

Slash would just laugh at them all. ?Trying so hard to play the songs he wrote.

You clearly haven't seen the band live this year, they are ripping through the old songs and sounding amazing. 

Believe me, Slash wouldn't be laughing at the new guys, he wishes he was there too.

BBF is a tru talent all the cred too him for having to play second fiddle to Finck who clearly is nowhere near as good a guitar player as he is!

fish

Finck is a GREAT guitar player, I dont know why people bash him. Listen to his TWAT solo its fucking amazing.

Finck can play in studio I am sure, the presolo to Bucket's on TWAT is immense and im sure the Blues solo is too. But ive seen the new guns 5 times, each time there is a glaring mistake or something that almost ruins the solo!

fish

The old band did the same thing back in the day, all bands do it, its called playing live. If  you want to hear songs played just like they are in the studio just lisiten to the cds

Whats lame is your checking out his crotch!

mistakes are allowed - they are human in the 5 times ive seen finck there have been GLARING mistakes huge ones that ruin the solo that is not acceptable!!

fish

And what were those GLARING mistakes  ::)

nov rain second solo Finck misses a note and there is like a 1-2 second silence on a pre-bend. Blues Finck slides to the wrong note, I dont have the mp3's but the mistakes are well reported!!!

Fish

why the hell should he play the solo like slash? he doesn't even try to. he makes it his own style, the way he should. if they did all note by note it would be like a fucking coverband. steve morse never tries to play like blackmore in deep purple f.ex.

What about bumblefoots horrendous twat solo? The guy totally butchered it at Hammerstein.

Wasn't it like his first gig??

Yes it was, you can't knock the guy for any of the Hammerstein shows imo, he must of been extremely nervous and had just learnt (and in the process of learning at the time) GnR songs.

Finck has been in the band all these years and I like him but Bumblefoot is already starting to sound better then him on certain songs as he gets more experience.

I just used that one as an example. He also butchered that solo in Europe as well. Not to mention his nightrain solo  :nervous:

As opposed to a KFC bucket on the head?   :hihi:

TWAT in europe???

and I didnt think he butchered it i thought watching the vid he played it well, plus learning it in 2 weeks with all the other songs and not even being able to listen to it outside the office it's one hell of an effort!!!

fish

yeah and I have tons of versions where slash butchered his own solos HE WROTE i even posted one here a few weeks ago.

If there is one thing I've learned, it's that the people who are most critical about guitar playing seem the least knowledgeable. Thal has done a commendable job, but that shouldn't be surprising because he's a guitar freak of nature - only a non-musician would be blind to that.

They've played it at least once in Europe in Madrid, Spain.

apologies yeah that they did!

Slash did butcher some solos Im not gonna make this topic a Slash ball-hanging one.

Finck however has a sloppy style. Yeah they say it is his style but sometimes in a lot of songs it sounds wrong. And let's be fair his solos suck they should scrap the one before PC

saying that im not a fan of Bumbles shred solo. I just think BBF has more to offer than wat Axl lets us see!!!

Fish

When you change songs to make them your own you are doing a "cover" of the song. GNR weren't touring as Bob Dylan or Paul McCartney at the time, so covering the songs was fine. Like many people in this world, if I go to a Guns N' Roses concert I would like to see the band playing the songs like Guns N' Roses did. Other wise it is nothing more than a big tribute cover band taking liberties on the songs. And we have all been told by people on this board that this band is 100% GNR, so either play the songs like GNR or stop calling yourselves GNR.

Because of the 3 gutiarists he is clearly the worst and least talented. He may be great in the studio writing songs and being creative, but so was Izzy, and you didn't seem him playing the bands most important leads because of studio brilliance and seniority did you? Finck should be relegated to rythm guitar like Izzy was, no shame in it.

There is no one on this board who has seen the New band play that can tell you with a straight face that Robin is a better or more talented player than Richard or Bumble. Those two are superior to him, so in turn they should be handling all the leads.....not Robin.

^  :beer:

I can not tell you with a straight face that Robin is a better or more talented player than Richard or Bumble. Because each of them has their own style of playing. And for me it is much better that there are 3 guitar players exchanging solos... more diverse than it was with Slash. But I can tell you that Robin can & should play all the leads he is playing currently. And I have seen the New band and I have some idea about guitar playing ;).

edit:uhm, and I thought this thread is about BBF

The thread is about Bumble if we can keep it on that it would be cool!

But you are always gonna get Ron v Rich v Rob debates. Personally I would like to see Ron and Rich take on the solos and Robin play backing, throwing in the odd one as Izzy used to!

Fish

That is what I think most people would like to see. It would be an easy way to drastically increase the quality of the shows and the fans experience, as you wouldn't get one of those messy, awful bends from Robin that ruin parts of songs. Richard and Bumble have a much cleaner style of playing that is much closer to how the songs are supposed to sound.

He didn't butchered anything. He played it very well, for what I could hear in the dvd. Also, you can't really judge him before listen to the final version of the song.

I like the guy, but I don't think his solos on IRS and Better (both played diffirent every time) are as good as Bucket's one on the demos.

THat's what I mean VoodooChild as in you cant really hear or make out the solo in IRS/Better maybe if he stuck to Bucket's or played something that can be remembered he would be a much more accepted player!!

Fish

Why can't people STFU about slash, he isn't in this band damnit. Neither is Buckethead.  :rant:

I wish Bumble would play the solos on TWAT and IRS exactly like Bucket played them. If he could do that I wouldn't have such a problem accepting him as a touring member. I still hope and pray Bucket will come back and the GnR foot era will come to an end.

Stop with the "I-wish-Bumblefoot-played-just-like-Slash-Buckethead-or-whoever". Each guitarist is different, with their own techniques, pros and cons. Leave the man alone, he's not a Buckethead or Slash cover. The bucket era is over!

Would you ask a Beatles forum to not talk about John Lennon, a Kiss forum not to talk about Ace Frehley. Just because he isn't in the band anymore doesn't mean nothink (in certain topics) Don't be ignorant and ignore the history of a band your a fan of.

I don't fucking care what the thread is all about, I just got home and had a few (a lot!) beers and ... I miss slash!! he's gn'r as much as axl is and all the others can just suck my dick!

To say the 'new gnr' (= coverband) is as good as or better than the old...crap!! I wonder if this new band makes new fans!????

Meaning, if you see them live, do you really think that those annoying solo's make new fans!?

I don't fucking think so!! "New fans" = "younger fans"  = "young people who like the 'old' music of guns and wants to see them live but never had the chance of doing that so they support this new crappy cover band" !!!

fuck off, I'm going to drink another one!!! Long live GN'R: why don't you just...FUCK OFF!!

lol ok :)

fish

Excellent point! People have a right to miss Slash and Bucket. They play on studio recordings that we all know and love. Bumble has no part in the creation of CD. Who knows if he will fit in with GnR creativity wise and record with them on future albums. The guy is just a touring guitarist that doesn't measure up to Bucket, in my opinion. I hate how people on these forums tell you you're not a fan if you don't like or agree with everything the band or Axl does. Some people on here need to start thinking for themselves and break away from the groupthink that permeates here.

My opinion about the dont cry comparison..Its hard to compare a 30 sec slash and band clip with a new fresh almost 3 min guitar solo without the rest of the band..... slash isent in the band any more but he wont be forgotten..I actually like the new bumble solo because its new and different to hear just the guitar..I like it.. :beer:

he wears spongebob shirts.  Thats not cool. Its stupid.

Judging a person on the t-shirts they wear is stupid...keep it real

Slash wore some 'childish' tees Sylvester the cat if i remeber correctly that doesn't take away from his genius

Agreed - We can't judge BBF til he records (if he does) just think that he has more firepower and use than what Axl has given him now!!!

Fish

bbf hasnt written one song for GnR. Slash wrote them all.  comparing them is stupid.  bbf will be gone next year or this year anyway so it doesnt realy matter. the guitar players for gnr come and go but still slashes name always is at the top. oh well.

Of course! But, as far as I know, there's another sections here for ex-members.

Also, its very odd to bring back the "I miss Slash" topic in every single thread. Why is so hard to discuss about the new band or one of its members without having to hijacking it to the dead horse?

^ Excellent post - this aint a slash vs BBF thread, just ur view of how he is used in the band!!

Fish :)

If you dont think rock is at all about image Bravefish youre clueless.  When it comes to succesful rock groups image is probably about 50% of what sells whether you like it or not.  You always bring up Satriani and Yngwie and dudes like that, wanna know the reason why they dont sell multi platinum albums, its because they dont join bands with great images.  Personally, I dont give a damn about image except that if GNR's image is not right they wont sell many albums, low album sales will be detrimental to any future.  THe masses buy albums usually for vicarious reasons.  Its stupid, but its the truth.  You can argue all you want, but Harvard just released a study on this last year.  So while I hope the music maintains its quality, I also hope that there is an abundant supply of concerts and cd's.  BBF does not have an image right for GNR, like it or not he will not help sell albums.  He's a douche, he is sober, wears spongebob t-shirts, plays a foot guitar, looks like mick foley, but talks like the dude from Hanson.  Yeah he may be the most gifted guitarist, but to put him in the spotlight would be financial suicide for Axl and the band.

ALso you keep saying Fink is a studio guitarist, clearly you never saw a NIN concert.  Fink is an amazing live guitarist who never played on a NIN cd.  Reznor who carries grudges like no other will even still admit that Fink is an amazingly passionate live guitarist. 

BBF may not even be in the band who knows.  The fact is, yes he is a better guitarist than I am and he is a better shredder than slash, but I think it was Slash who said that, (this is a paraphrase, "GnR will never be as talented as a band like Rush, but we hope to have more heart."  I dont see BBF having the right soul for GNR,  I didnt think Buckethead did either, but BH had a good stage presense and was fun.  The fact is GNR appealed to people because they were ," dangerous" and people loved to conciously or subconciously live vicariously through that dangerous asshole element.  BBF does not offer that, FInk definitely does and thats why I feel Fink deserves the solo's even if they are not perfect.

I must admit that I have a hang-up about the image thing, too.  That's why I never cared for Buckethead.   :-[  I don't see anything wrong with BBF's image.  I think his image is a better fit.  Just my opinion, of course. 

I don't see the big deal about wearing a Sponge Bob t-shirt.  I like Sponge Bob.  I don't have kids and I've watched it a few times.  The few shows that I've seen were pretty funny.   ;D

i'm sick of people judging the new players by their looks. and i'm sick of reading axlrose4eva and estranged2006's posts that anly say one thing: we want slash back. newsflash - slash quit! 10 years ago! get over it or go to the velvet revolver part of the board.
ron has a very good stage presence and he's an awesome player. i bet you didn't see any of the shows in the tour.
and people bitching about buckethead, he's a tour guitarist too. you don't have any proof of what he recorded with the band. until cd is out and bucket is credited the shredding from the solos in the demos cpuld be from anyone. and ron looks stupid but a guy with a kfc bucket and a mask is cool? (not trying to say bucket was lame but th comparison makes me laugh).
and saying that bumble doesn't have a right image for guns because he is sober  :rofl: maybe he could be drunk at every show, not speak to the fans and keep everything to himself, act like a star and just pass by when people say hello, cheat on his wife : ok: that's rock and roll man, i'm going to gnr shows because they have a guitar player that bangs groupies and passes out on stage. fuck the music, i wanna see drunk people on stage!

This is the funniest post in the thread. I'm waiting for him to spit an apple in someones face ?:hihi:

Sponge Bob rules!! And you know it!!!

(http://img.engadget.com/common/images/3060000000046177.JPG?0.726682873542342)

Hiiiiiiiiiii Garyyyyyyy

thats not a mistake, thats obviously the way finck intends to play the solo.  you don' t expect him to play the original note for note do you?  He's twice the performer as the guy her replaced anyways.   He owns the SCOM solo, he's the best part about that song when this band plays.   :peace:

i gotta say man, this is one of the more intelligent posts I've read on this board in a long time.   good stuff. 

Bumblefoot rocks  : ok:

haha its true! i dont know why he would wear that kids shirts. thats for kids. not guitar players for Guns n Roses! Its rediculos loooking.  I also didnt like that stupid foot guiter. im glad that thing is broken. I hope Axl dont pay him any money to get it fixed! hehehehe  if i saw it i would let it meet my foot when i stomp on it into the ground! stupid foot guitars. 
at least axl got the sense to let him use the les paul! everyone knows that guns n roses guitarist use a les paul. not a stupid foot or a buckethead.

(http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/pics/slash/slash-n-ash.jpg)
(http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/pics/slash/slash-and-renee.jpg)

I didn't find Tokyo '92 pics, but there Slash was wearing a shirt with a Looney Toon's carachter. : ok:

Edited: found a video on youtube with this shirt:
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/7461/slash9yn.gif)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zllP65Vn03w&search=showbiz

I watched the slash solo and bumblefoot

well not even close slash's kills his , I miss slash

Yeah that's the one I meant Voodoo...

I want to stay off Finck cause this is a BBF topic but what the hell is the nonsense of 'Finck intends to play how he does' no offence but there is a fine line between someone like SRV or Gary Moore who play accidental (or wrong notes) as part of a lick and Finck who holds or over bends which just sounds wrong.

Fish

how can you miss him? :confused:
its not like he dissapeared form face of earth.he is right there,in velvet revolver.ya know,in that band together with duff,matt,scott and dave.
its not like he lost his abbility to play guitar.right?

so,according to YOU,they have list of clother which they MUSTN'T wear,and list of clother which they MUST wear when they play in gnr?
oh my god  :confused: I cant understand how stupid some people can be....I really cant.

I miss him in GNR

Missing him in GNR is understood..but it wont change the fact that he has gone!

And to be honest as much as I love the old band..I didnt want them to become another AC/DC (who are awesome) but keep pumping out the same album over and over..the fact that they were only around for a short time adds to the whole feeling of GNR!!!

Fish

well,HE ISNT IN GN'R SINCE 1996 and he aint coming back.
so yeah,live in past for rest of your life.it SHURE WONT CHANGE THINGS.

Exactly deal with what you have, there could have been no Axl no more GNR be grateful for what you got.

Now back to BBF...do you think he is being used correctly/the right man for the job/will he stay??

Fish

Youre an idiot, you clearly did not read my post.  Learn how to read and then get back to me.  Newsflash: I never even used the word "Slash" in my post.  You dont know how to read and thus should not be responding to posts on the internet. Go to school, read some Dick and Jane books then come back and post on the internet, because its annoying writing a long post explaining why I think BBF's image is wrong and why I think image is important and then having some idiot write, "Im sick of hearing that you want slash back."  My whole post was defending Robin Fink.  Learn how to read and then come back.

Bumble seems to be a great guitarist and a nice chap. Good for him that hes been given a lucky break. Wrecks a few solos though, but half as many as Robin 'Whats my image again' Finck.

But no one ever can replace Slash in this band. No one. Its like replacing Keith Richards with the guy from Bowling for Soup or something and hoping no-one will notice.

Everyone keeps going on about how so and so owns Slash, this new band are so much better than the old band. Its just laughable. All they proved to me when I saw them is that they arent even a competent covers band with all the mistakes they make. It was sad to see cliche after cliche.

If this Chi Dem malarkey falls flat, Axl will be the first to be phoning Slash saying ' Hey buddy, remember me? I loved you all along, wanna hook up'.

Anyway, Im straying from the point, like most threads on here, but Bumble is ok I guess - stupid guitar (hope it is broke).
With Bucket and Bumblefoot's guitar- Axl seems to think that the band needs stupid gimmicks. It didnt before and it doesnt now. Let the music speak for itself. Unless its Silkworms and Rhiad, then please keep hush.

As I have a newly added negative karma point, I hope this doesnt stop me from being able to express an opinion. ?;)

Good point Locomotive and I will say that he does play a few solos pretty strange but does show genius on some solos...Dont Cry, KOHD, WTTJ SCOM all played so well and I loved the TWAT solo in Hammerstein.

But the ones he plays shred or not, why?? He has so much talent which I seem to think is wasted. Axl needs to give him direction he's too good a player!!

Fish

Rons Don't Cry Version at Nova Rock was much better than the youtube link. Here is a mp3 of it http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=E3071B163D0D7535

And wat's even better is he changes it up well, it's the same melody but always different!!!

FIsh

i was probably wrong to say that you wished slash would be back in gnr, and i apologize for that, but the part about image and stage presence was adressed to you. bucket had a lot more stage presence than ron?  :no:

and if you want to be a smartass fine:

I wonder why he hasn't written anything for GNR...............?? DUDE, wake up to reality! Bumblefoot has been in the band for less than 2 months! Slash was in the band for God knows how many fucking years. Stop complaining he hasn't done much, trust me, when he starts writing stuff for the band, it'll blow everyone away. Quit being so ignorant!!!

 Robin is unique and reminds me af a cross between Jeff Beck and Slash.  Why so much talk of bumblefoot when he hasnt even written or recorded with the band.  Start threads about the new drummer then.  Is he a legend?

Because some of us have heard/listened to BBF before he joined GNR, he is a truly great player

Fish

he wont be in the band for verry long. no long enough to write stuff for the band. 

In touch with Axl are we??  ::)

Fish

has his sound improved over in europe?  its really the only thing i didnt like.  Fink and fortus have perfect tone for their parts and bumblefoot sounded like he plugged into a boss heavy metal distortion pedal.  he also appeared a bit nervous in NY. 

i honestly never heard anything from him.  what would be the best cd to buy from him?

All of them?  ;D

I can't choose only one, but if you are only getting started, I suggest Normal (his last CD).

yeah if not you can youtube some of the stuff.

And nervous in NY - try playing for one of the biggest bands and one of the most eagerly anticipated comebacks and having 2 weeks to learn all songs :)

Fish

You do know that Robin wrote MOST of the guitar music for the new band right? Also you really dont get Robins style at all, he is very talented and its really a shame you dont see that. If he was just some hack like some of? you make him out to be you would not have Axl and Trent fighting over whose band he was going to be in.

You know Robins style is loose and sloppy right? Its much harder to play that way they play a song clean. Robin can play clean fine, just listen to his SCOM solos, they are pretty much note for note how slash did it but for the other songs he plays it his way to make it different. I dont see why people cannot understand this.? He tore it up on sossego from RIR

So you are  saying that he is more talented than BBF and Richard? Because out of the multiple times I have seen the band live, he always looks and sounds the least impressive. Whether that is his style or not, he is not as good a player as Richard or BBF. At least on the old songs, since none of the leads were written by any of the 3 of them, they should be given to the most talented players to play, which is not Finck. Awarding solos based on seniority, rather than talent level is not a productive way to run a band.

Since you still haven't denied what I am saying about him being the least talented of the 3 is true, I am assuming that you agree with me.

Ron has done an adequete job, essentially playing other people's music. I haven't had the slightest interest in his solo section unfortunately. Even the Don't Cry melody lacks the delicacy of the original. Just not digging it. I don't mind if he is standing in but long term I would like to see either Robin and Richard take over his parts or the return of Buckethead.  B attracted my attention like no other band member, save Axl. He was precise, lightning fast when needed, and always a fun albeit bizarre stage presence. 

Axl hasnt hired him to change every song that would not go down well with GNR fans anywhere. But he adds his own spin on everything, end of NR, KOHD and the DC solo.

Fish

I really don't hear much of a creative difference with KOHD and NR from what existed with Bucket. I actually thought Bucket performed the songs more crisply. Frankly, Ron has played adequetely but I haven't been able to discern a real creative contribution yet. His Don't Cry solo is a bit of a mess and greatly pales in comparison to the old track. I don't dig it.

As I said, he's been adequete, but I haven't been blown away.

I think you're wrong. Is it not enough that you don't like him, you have to convince Dave that he also doesn't?

BF is better then bh, what ever dick said the foot was was gay how about have a fucking kfc bucket on you head with a mask and wig. If you do not like any of the fucking members in the current band go to the old gnr section to talk about how god like slash was

Would you care to explain why bbf > bh?

The only explanation offered is that you don't seem to like the bucket and mask. If that is the case, no sound eminating from B's guitar could ever open your mind. B

IMO Ron is a cross between what BH brought to the table and a slash. If  you were to mix slash and BHs playing you would get what Ron does. I agree BH is better but I am glad they got ron to replace him. He was the best choice by far of the rumored guys there were going to get

I definitely do not think that Fink is the least talented guitar player and definitely is the most interesting.  Fink has a great sound in his guitar and he has incredible passion when he plays guitar.  Seriously go out and buy And All That Could Have Been or youtube.com NIN's woodstock performance.  Fink is amazing.  He is sloppy, he screws up a lot, but i have a feeling when he is playing his own stuff you wont be able to tell.  He is playing slash's music trying to carry his own style, it doesnt work and maybe youre right that Fortus and BBF would be best to play Slash's stuff, but Fink when he plays music that he wrote (yes he didnt write any NIN songs, but listen to an album and listen to a live song they are totally different so the guitar parts are pretty much Fink's creation). 

BBF whether you like it or not, I find annoying.  YOU may think he is great, best guitarist ever etc... but I havent been too impressed and think that his style is incredibly wrong for the band.  We have differing opinions, but the fact is it regardless of BH's insanity and his stupid get up it was pretty much accepted that he was an amazing guitarist and a unique individual.  BH's personality is a turn off to many and the cold hard fact is that the new album and the first US tour need to do very well if there is any hope of a 2nd album.  BH was a draw and because of him the new album might have reached more fans, BBF is not a draw and that is my point.  Maybe a few of you had heard of him before, but most of the world hadnt.  THis is why I feel like FInk would be the best guitarist to bill as the "lead" guitarist.  He already has a following.   He has a great stage presence.  He has a distinctive style.  A hard rock legacy.  And he wrote much of the music on Chinese Democracy.  Fink would be the right choice to push towards the front imo.

Also, Slash was never perfect either and yes gnr will never be the same without slash, but that isnt necessarily a bad thing.  Personally I hated Slash's Snakepit's albums and I think Izzy was a much bigger loss.

Oh and btw, if I had my way Id push for Tommy to be the breakout star.  I think he has an awesome personality and has more credibility than anyone int he band other than Axl. 

I am just trying to get an answer from the people on this thread claiming that Finck is "awesome" and "great", because I have yet to find someone who has refuted the claim that Richard or BBF are better and more talented players than Richard, which then logically makes him the worst guitar player in his own band, and means he shouldn't be playing any of the old GNR leads.

I am telling you that I think Fink si the better guitarist for Guns N Roses.  Better than Fortus and definitely better than Bumblefoot.  Fink has had more success than the other two.  Fink has more credibility.  Definitely plays his songs with more passion.  Has written much more for GNR than the other two.  Was brought in for the sole reason of filling Slash's through.  Has a much better rock personality.  Has a great stage presence.  Has a guns n roses style, gnr was never about playing the "best" or the "fastest"  or with "octave displacement"  it has been since its conception been a band that thrived when it was gritty and raw.  Fink for me is the best replacement for slash, even better than Buckethead.  Maybe he does not play as fast or as clean as the other guitarist, but Axl does not sing as clean or as in tune as Geoff Tate, that does not mean I want to see Geoff Tate instead of Axl.

But how can you say Robin is the worst player in this band after listening to his writing on the new songs?

He adds his own twist to the old songs, they all do. Maybe you don't like what he adds as much as the others, maybe even because he's the most different to Slash of the 3. But you have to get into your head that he wasn't hired to play the old leads. I don't even think he thought he'd be playing them when he joined the band.

There's no logic in your posts that makes him the worst guitar player of this band, as you choose to ignore the most important factor, which is the one that the future of this band depends on.

IF ur talking bout future, BBF is the man to come up with the chops the guy is so talented, he should play slash's parts and his writing ability is up there too.

I agree with dave, bbf is a mix of slash and BH sounding like the ideal man to drive GNR forward, his solo bar the mass tapping one minute has a very slashesque bluesy wah lick followed by DC something that he has added his own twist on. Very impressive IMO

FIsh

Go listen to the TWAT demos with Bucket and without Bucket, and you will see a concrete example of how a more talented player was needed to truly take the song to the next level. Robin is an average player, and the original TWAT was decent, but anyone who has listened to the one with Bucket's parts on it can see proof positive that the talent in the band did not lie with Robin Finck. Buckethead, not Finck, took that song and many others I suspect from ordinary to extraordinary.

BBF's solo work is terrible. ?Seriously I have listened to it and it is trash. ?It sounds nothing like slash I dont know if your ears are broken or what. ?There isa ?reason this guy was playing nightclubs in New Jersey with 30 people in the audience 2 months ago. ?Yes all of you are such huge fans of the guy now, but I will take Fink's writing on "Better" over any BBF song and I dare you to try to argue that. ?BBF may not even be in the band. ?I dont think he sounds anything like slash, and his style/attitude is nothing like slash's.

Listen to Reznor talk about Fink and the passion he played with. ?Reznor seems to hate fink, but will still admit that he is an incredible guitarist. ?Im sorry, ive listened to Normal and thought it was pure crap, i like the guitar playing and song writing much better on Village Gorilla Head, Velvet Revolver, Ju Ju Hounds and all the live NIN material than the BBF stuff i heard. ?Also the public seems to like it more as well, seeing as BBF's gimmick didnt get him too far up until touring with GNR.

AxlRose4eva1 listen to some of the stuff he plays in the GNR concerts if you dont think that there are elements of Slashesque blues, listen to the solos in KOHD or the start of his solo before DC. And im not a fan of the guy through GNR I have heard of the guy before, he is so talented as a musician.

Agreed, BH took TWAT to another level and BBF can do that on songs. Better in years to come will not be looked at as a classic cause there is nothing to take away from the song. TWAT will because the ending is genius BH takes it to a whole new level.

BBF has the skills and chops of BH and combines so many different styles in his play - blues/country/rock etc and would be such a powerful asset to GNR.

Fish

I have to say that I agree with 90% of what you wrote. Finck has a huge stage presence: if Better is any indication of his writing talents then his contribution to GnR will be awesome. 

I don't find BBF annoying , just bland. Often times, I just forget he is up there. Since he didn't write any of the songs, I often think that he is playing another person's parts adequetely but I would have liked to instead hear Bucket rip his own solo.

Much of this discussion however is gratuitous since Bucket and Slash chose not to be here. I am appreciative that Ron is playing these shows; however, he hasn't strike the chord in my heart in the manner that his predecessors did.

Ron has been given parts by Axl and has the set up Axl wants him to have, im sure if Axl wanted him to be the MAIN guitar player - he would turn up, play most of the solos (well) and be the main man.

Thing is im sure axl isnt sure what to do. BH leaving was huge, you cant rebuild something, record stuff and then have the guy leave its as if u r bk to square one again..
Fact is, BBF has done a super job already
rock on I say

Fish

Ron may have a combination of shredding (a la Big B) and blues based (a la Slash) talents but the comparison ends there.  I don't sense much of a personality up on stage which is most of the problem that I have with him. GnR is such a vibrant, collective unit of personnas, he seemingly gets lost amongst his colleagues. Slash was the man who tamed our hearts with barbed wire and whisky, a workman of style and street urchinsim. Bucket looked like an escapee from a freak show, but he had backstory and skills  to match which absolutely mesmerized my eyes. I remember seeing him play YCBM at Vegas 12-29 in which during a lull in the song he tilted his head, patched three fingers to this mouth and fell limp like a hanging scarecrow. Brilliant. How could you be bored with a character willing to jump up to the drum riser and unleash the giant Bucket steps dance as the confetti flew.

I really don't know what Ron is at this point. He has not opened himself up the guns fans yet; in fact, he appears to be quite protective of his self.  I really feel this detracts from his performance and likeability. Some day I hope we see the real Ron Thal out there and unfettered but thus far he has stood out like a cardboard knock down.

I think he has done an adequete job, but I expect alot more from my primary lead.  Robin definately outshines Ron at this point.

Man, Bucket played those songs so fucking good. He completely made each song his own. Plus, he really seemed like part of the band. They might have hated him, but they meshed perfectly as a band. Bucket twisted a new solo every night and each night it was fresh. Ron just seems like a guy who's up there playing, you know? He's talented, no doubt, but he just doesn't have that feel to the songs Bucket did, just check out the solo in Chinese Democracy.

But, I'm giving Ron the benefit of the doubt. The guy was basically thrown on stage with a bunch of guys he never played with before, with songs he's never played before. And the fact that Bucket not only wrote (the new) songs, but had been practicing them for who knows how many years, and actually re-recorded AFD with the band, so he went into a show already having his own spin on the old songs. That's a luxury Ron didn't have.

Lastly, Buckethead, love him or hate him, was an overwhelming character. It's very difficult to follow someone with his kind of presence. There is no one else like him. He was a guy people noticed, and he had a solid persona. Even Slash was a character with a very strong persona. Bumblefoot is just a guy, not a character. Ron had a lot going against him from the beginning. He's handling it pretty well, imo. 

bumblefoot was hired to replace buckethead, not to replace slash, fortus and finck replaced slash

Finck replaced Slash, Fortus replaced Paul Huge.

who will replace fink? or fortus or foot? they will all leave eventually also. this band will never stick around to have any longevity or string of thier own hits or albums.

If they stick around through so much inactivity I think leaving isn't something to worry about!

hope ur right! im sick of new member every year!

Since Robin has been in the band for about 10 years now,  I don't see him going anywhere. I believe Bumblefoot is meant to be a temp of some sort so I won't be surprised if he leaves/is replaced. Richard & Tommy have been in this band for a long time and aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Did you see him play any shows in Europe yet?

Of course he's not gonna start running around at his first shows before he even knows the songs properly.

The more shows he plays, the more comfortable he'll get with his role in the band.



/jarmo

No BH just played fast he never slowed down thats all he did. when i saw guns bbf did his solo we went from shredding to slowing down.

Exactly who would take to a guy whos been in the band for 2 weeks running around the stage like a maniac when Axl has just hired him.

And if Axl replaces him, unless its some extraordinary talent we are faced with 2 problems...one of the new guy settling and b)his acceptance and writing powers if bucket has already recorded parts. I feel BBF is here to stay

Fish

At this point I sincerely hope that is true. I'd love to see Ron stay. The only reason I could see him not staying is because of his own solo career. I know he hasn't been "successful" by the industry standard, but alot of people really want to stay with their own thing rather then be a part of a bigger thing where other peoples opinions come into play, ya know?

I think thats the only reason why at this point he uses phrases like "their" and "them" when referring to GNR.

Even if he ends up in a Gilby-like role, I'll still be happy to have seen him live with the band, but I'm hoping he stays on.

I think the their and them when referring to GNR comes from Axl's management telling him to shutup til the band and Axl know what to do.

It all comes down to what I said before, the tour and music for me doesnt seem like Axl is firing in the way that he knows the plan ie kill a tour drop the album etc. IT still to me feels as if he is finding his feet...testing the water almost

Fish

I've watched the shows at Download, Hammersmith, and Lisbon. He is playing more confidently but the stage presence remains quite inert. I understand that he will get more comfortable, the more shows he plays, but his lack of personality onstage strikes me as being detached. Ron is definately a great player and capable of playing this music but not much else to rave about. 

did you watch rio 3? Bucket was all over that stage.

I went to Docklands, Leeds and Bucket moved approximately 3mm in both shows  :rofl:

Fish

I dunno what you saw but even during the American leg, Bucket was flying across the stage during PC, not to mention his astounding solo segment.

THe solo segment in RIR was an absolute shocker, who wants to see a karate display followed by robotic dancing from ur main axe man???

Fish

He was still pulling that shit during the tour stops in the US too. Really dumb if you ask me. I'll take Ron anyday over that shit.

I do...Much more than i want to see some douche wearing a Spongebob t-shirt and playinging a Foot guitar with 1/2 the talent of Buckethead and with 1/10th of the passion as slash. ?The fact is, cause you all are going to be like, "BH and Slash" are gone stop comparing them, well Im not, cause i feel Fink should be lead and I like Fink just as much as Slash. ?If BBF's solo work is any indication, I dont find it interesting at all. ?The songs are simplistic as hell, except for the guitar parts. ?And the guitar parts are not so good that they cover up the fact that the lyrics and melodies are totally void of any intellectual thought. ?BH's solo work was interesting just to hear the sounds that he could make come from a guitar. ?I dont care if BBF gains some false confidence, until I see the guy actually accomplish something Im not going to run around praising his name. ?So far i listened to his solo work which sounded like 50 bands I can go see at any bar in town, and I heard his playing on the tour which seemed totally lifeless to me. ?His personality also is not a draw to me, so I have no reason to like this guy. ?He hasnt written anything I like, hasnt played anything I thought was amazing or intense, and has the personality more suited for a professional Dungeons and Dragons player rather than the "Biggest Rock Group on the Planet."

Now that is just a silly statement. If you don't 'get' the performance art, then it cannot be a point of criticism against someone who does. Transcend the mask, the bucket, and the nunchuks, there is a fascinating character at work.

Bbf's solo section is ok, but I feel it fails to distinguish itself from finck's.

I had to register just to tell you that you haven't a freaking clue what the hell you're talking about, and I can't WAIT till a few years from now when you look back at these posts and feel like a complete ass.? You know absolutely NOTHING about bumblefoot and write as though you have a clue what you're talking abut.? Before you open your mouth again regarding lyrics please go to www.bumblefoot.com, click on discography, and read the lyrics.? Anyone who thinks they may agree with this troll do the same.? Before you open your mouth again about a lack of creativity listen to all the samplers.? Buy a CD.? Go see HIS band live.? Before you throw any more criticisms about his NOT fitting in the band blame your hero Axl, Bumblefoot didn't go knocking on his door, he came knocking on Ron's.? Grow up.?

[edit]  Cuz I know you're going to find the worst lyrics you can to post and try and make a point I just went through some songs and realized I kinda like this one.  More from the heart than most music I'm hearing these days.

Wasted Away

2 years today, I just pulled the blankets off the mirrors for the first time
Surprised at the new lines on my face that remind how I tried to catch an illusion
Hiding from me, hiding from facing the height of what I hope to be
Kept all my eggs in someone else's basket
Thinking they would care enough to not let someone smash it

What's wrong with me, I got this need to give back to a world that keeps me
And if I do just for myself it's like I'm selfish
'Cause I always had this thing about staying grounded and down
And it's not been worth it to share with the people I pick that I sought to prove they care
And I feel like a pussy sayin' shit out loud
But I'm openin' my eyes and I see myself now

I left myself behind
While chasing after dreams I could never find
I lived for all your lives
A machine for you to unplug at any time
I just realized today that I've wasted away

Maybe it's too late - the end has a date - and I'm cramming for the final test
It hasn't been a total mess, I'm just striving for higher
And humility will build me if I confess
Some people do what they chose some people look for every bump in the road
And some pretend and they play a good role
For the people that depend - they all come and go

Wrote half an album in 2 long days as I reflected and tried to take a hard next step
Of a spiritual kind so maybe I can find some sense as I pick apart a burdened mind
So I spread out on the floor all the pieces that I thought were fully formed
I see how much more I've got to go
I reach for a new drug to medicate my soul

I left myself behind
While chasing after dreams I could never find
I lived for all your lives
A machine for you to unplug at any time
Just realized today

I left myself behind
While chasing after dreams I could never find
I lived for all your lives
To forget about the answers I need to find
I just realized today that I've wasted away

I agree that Bucket distinguished himself more as a player than Ron has so far.  But, I emphasize the SO FAR part.  Like,  mister ID said, Ron was thrown into a difficult situation, and he deserves the benefit of the doubt and some patience.

Ali

Agreed give him time

And I did not overlook the art of it, it just doesnt fit with GNR. I appreciate the art of cooking, if Axl pulled out a guitar player who started cooking mid solo I would think WTF just as I did with Bucket - wrong band wrong time IMO

And comparing BH to BBF solely on the foot guitar is silly, he uses that for part of a solo the rest of the time has a les paul, does bucket ever change? no so thats the end of that. But lets not make this a BBF vs Bucket thread

I still hold that BBF has all the talent to take GNR to another level, I cant wait to see what he does if given the chance

FIsh

Perhaps Brain is on a covert mission right now to get Bucket back. If anyone could talk the Big B into coming back, it would be his good buddy Brain. Perhaps Axl and Brain have been collecting rare horror dolls in Europe, and when they thought they had found enough dolls to entice Bucket back into the fold, Brain was sent back to the US to get Bucket. This is just like Hannibal sending Face to break Murdoch out of the Insane Asylum.

I had to register just to tell you that you haven't a freaking clue what the hell you're talking about, and I can't WAIT till a few years from now when you look back at these posts and feel like a complete ass.? You know absolutely NOTHING about bumblefoot and write as though you have a clue what you're talking abut.? Before you open your mouth again regarding lyrics please go to www.bumblefoot.com, click on discography, and read the lyrics.? Anyone who thinks they may agree with this troll do the same.? Before you open your mouth again about a lack of creativity listen to all the samplers.? Buy a CD.? Go see HIS band live.? Before you throw any more criticisms about his NOT fitting in the band blame your hero Axl, Bumblefoot didn't go knocking on his door, he came knocking on Ron's.? Grow up.?

[edit]? Cuz I know you're going to find the worst lyrics you can to post and try and make a point I just went through some songs and realized I kinda like this one.? More from the heart than most music I'm hearing these days.

Wasted Away

2 years today, I just pulled the blankets off the mirrors for the first time
Surprised at the new lines on my face that remind how I tried to catch an illusion
Hiding from me, hiding from facing the height of what I hope to be
Kept all my eggs in someone else's basket
Thinking they would care enough to not let someone smash it

What's wrong with me, I got this need to give back to a world that keeps me
And if I do just for myself it's like I'm selfish
'Cause I always had this thing about staying grounded and down
And it's not been worth it to share with the people I pick that I sought to prove they care
And I feel like a pussy sayin' shit out loud
But I'm openin' my eyes and I see myself now

I left myself behind
While chasing after dreams I could never find
I lived for all your lives
A machine for you to unplug at any time
I just realized today that I've wasted away

Maybe it's too late - the end has a date - and I'm cramming for the final test
It hasn't been a total mess, I'm just striving for higher
And humility will build me if I confess
Some people do what they chose some people look for every bump in the road
And some pretend and they play a good role
For the people that depend - they all come and go

Wrote half an album in 2 long days as I reflected and tried to take a hard next step
Of a spiritual kind so maybe I can find some sense as I pick apart a burdened mind
So I spread out on the floor all the pieces that I thought were fully formed
I see how much more I've got to go
I reach for a new drug to medicate my soul

I left myself behind
While chasing after dreams I could never find
I lived for all your lives
A machine for you to unplug at any time
Just realized today

I left myself behind
While chasing after dreams I could never find
I lived for all your lives
To forget about the answers I need to find
I just realized today that I've wasted away


Well, first of all I think you need to learn how to read and probably take some courses in anger management while youre at it, maybe a combined course if you can find one.  But seriously, I didnt know of Bumblefoot before he joined GNR, but I went to his website downloaded his music or myspace'd youtubed it, heard him play live in concert and my opinion is that he doesnt interest me.  Music is for the most part subjective, and my opinion is that he bores me and his personality sucks.  You are welcome to your opinion and im not gonna try to talk you out of it.

As for the lyrics you are right you chose some of the better ones there...trust me there are some much worse than those, but since you chose those ill tell you what I think about them.  They are childish emo lyrics meant to appeal to troubled, loser 14 year olds with acne scars.  As I said earlier they are simple.  monosyllabic for the most part and the rhyme schemes are at a 2nd grade level.  He actually rhymes Find with Find several times and when he really wants to mix it up he rhymes it with behind.  Some songs sound like 3rd rate Reznor lyrics other sound like the kind of trash you could hear from 50 different bands in any even somewhat major city.

Maybe the lyrics "touch" you, but to me they are lifeless and sound like he hung out with some goth kids and got stoned and then wrote down everything they said.  Personally, If I want to hear lyrics that I find truly deep I read Yeats, but in the rock world I like Patton and Axl the best, and Trent when he isnt too depressed.  BBF's solo work bored me, it is as interesting as a band like Bullet For My Valentine to me and they bored the hell out of me too.  You are welcome to your opinion, but the fact is if GNR wind up shocking the planet and being the biggest group in the world, I will love it and if BBF helps that happent hat will be awesome, but that doesnt mean that I have to agree he is the right person for the Lead guitarist part and I definitely do not believe he should be playing the solo's that FInk wrote.

What really gets me is that people talk so much trash about Fink, but dont realize that next to Axl he has the most riding on GnR and has sacraficed the most.  If GNR fails, BBF goes back to New York a little richer, with a lot more notoriety and a bunch of stories to tell.  Tommy can continue his solo stuff and wait for a replacements reunion.  Brain can go play with BH and Claypool etc... Without an album Fink has actually taken a huge step backwards in his career by joining and sticking with Axl.  Fink as recently as 2001 was playing to sold out arena's and making a lot of money being the lead guitarist for NIN.  Reznor probably never will take him back and even if he did who knows how many more tours NIN will go on.  Tommy was big in the 80's, but Fink left popularity and fortune to be with Axl and create music for once.  He has been in the band for 10 years now, not 3 weeks.  It pisses me off that after 3 weeks people like Bravefish are saying to give Fink's solo's away.  The guys an amazing guitarist who has slaved for GnR and been more loyal than anybody else.  You call yourself fans, but jump and trash the guy who has been the best to GNR everytime a new person comes along.

Ummm, Buckethead uses a number of different guitars from a Les Paul to a Flying V.

Ron Thal hasn't written a note for GnR; I fail to see how he will 'take them to another level.'

I'm all for giving the man time. But you said in your first post that he had already achieved 'legend' status. What level could he possibly reach now? Divinity?

I hate to nitpick, but although I think Ron is a very talented guy, I have not yet been blown away by his integration into the band. Thus far, I see him as a guy hired to do a job. He is doing the job well, but he has not been tapped in the vein feeding the heart of his band...yet.

he is a legend in my eyes obv not with GNR but the stuff he has done outside i take my hat off to him. one of the best fretless guitar players ive ever seen, speed and the ability to play DC which frankly many people would not have been able to come up with

all im saying is that he has the ability and talent to take guns to another level!!

Fish

It's really sad to see how people are judging and bashing on Ron.? ???

NO he is NOT Slash and he never will be. Slash did some amazing work with Axl back in the old days.
And all of you who are Slash fanatics will probably never accept Ron, Buckethead, or any other replacement.
And I can totally understand it.

But I noticed that some people were judging Ron by the way he looks, the way his guitar looks etc.... and I find it just stupid.
Bumblefoot is an amazing guitar player, wether you like his style or not. And I personally think he shines on stage with Gn'r.
The other two players are sloppy, have bad tone and they really can't play in general. That's what I think.
I really can't see why Axl even would want them in the band.

Some people can't understand that being famous doesn't necessarily have to meen that you are a good musician. Just because Fink (or what ever his name is) is more famous than Ron, doesn't make him a better guitarist.

With Bumblefoot, Axl has one of the most talented and creative guitar players in the world. I've been listening to Ron's music for many years, and I have also studied for him a couple of days. He is a true musician and a great guy. So I get really pissed when I see some of you judging him for who he is.
If you don't like his music that's fine.... but don't make any personal bashing.

I say, give mr Foot some time, and he will prove himself being the best guitarplayer that Guns N' Roses ever had.
Slash was ok, except for being drunk, playing out of pitch all the time... etc. But he wrote some good songs.
Fink and the other guy, may have the "correct image" for the band, but as guitar players the stink.
Ron may not have the correct Rock N' Roll image, but boy can he play guitar!!? :peace:

I'm not a big fan of Gn'r anymore. I will probably get a lot of shit for this, but I don't mind.
Axl is history, the guy sings terrible. He sang ok back inte the 90's, but now he is history. Some people will love him no mather what, just because he is Axl. But if you really sit down and listen, you'll find out that the guy sings awful.
But it's cool that the man has done a reunion with Guns. Sadly they will never be what they used to be though....

And the other members in the band are not the one's to blame. Axl should have quit when he was on top. People are even calling Guns N' Roses a cover band. And it's not the band that is the problem. It's Axl.... it's a shame that people can't see that...

Fucking hell. Finally someone who knows what they are talking about.

axl sings fine! he sings better than ever! did u hear him? or u just even say that with out listening to him? i dont listen to bbf solo cd coz im sure its sooo boring. he may be a nice guy or make nice curry sauces for the fans after the show! but he is not better than slash. slash is not out of tone. slash is the best. those are slashes songs. bbf hasnt written anything with GnR. not even one song. ppl go crazy when he plays "dont cry".. thats slashes song. hes famous now for playing slashes songs but everyone says hes the best guiterist ever! hes not even playing his own songs. if hes so good he would be making his own band. not a scab for slash.  and axl is the best singer ever. u dont knw his voice now.

Fine post, I agree with 85% percent of it, however the part in which you say that Axl can't sing anymore (quoted above) is not true IMHO. I saw the band yesterday and I was very impressed how Axl sounded. He was eons ahead vox-wise, when compared to the 02-tour. He basically sounded as 17 years ago, with a little less volume. I'm in no way one of the Axl-nutswingers, I never praised him no matter what, but I really have to praise him for the way he wipped his voice back in shape. Yesterday he sounded by no means awful.

-PEACE-

Yes, I heard Axl sing on this tour too. I have never been a huge fan of his singing.
On the albums it sounds cool, but live he sucks. That's what I think. I can think of numberous singers that totally out class Axl.

Especially now 14 years later after the Use your illusion albums, his voice is horrible. I saw Guns back in 1992, and Axl was on fire back then. He didn't sang very good back then either, but compare it by how he sounds now it's a big difference.
I heard he even needs oxygen between the songs... that's evidence enough for me. Sorry everybody, but I think Axl sucks.
I was going to a Guns concert it would be for seeing my friend Bumblefoot. He is the most talented guy in the band, wether you like his playing or not.

I'm not out to bash Axl as a sort of revenge for some of you are bashing on Ron Thal. I'm just being honest, as I'm sure you are too in your opinions of Ron.

BUT!!! I'm not judging Axl by the way he looks, or what his microphone looks like. So you shouldn't judge Ron from what HE looks like, or what kind of guitar he uses. And some "intelligent" guy even bashed on him for wearing his Les paul to high..... Sir, how old are you?
Music isn't just about image.... music is first and foremost about MUSIC! LOOKS OR BEING FAMOUS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR QUALLITIES AS A MUSICAN.
Just because you play or sing in a famous band, doesn't necessarily make you a good musician. But Ron is a true genious when it comes to making music or playing guitar. And I'm not only saying this as a Bumblefoot fan or friend.... but as a musician myself.? :)

Based on this knowledge you didn't like Axl on the 1992 tour as well seeing as he used it back then as well. For proof watch the Toyko DVDs from that same year where Axl can clearly be seen using oxygen under the stage between songs.

I'm also assuming you don't like pretty much any other singer in rock since they all do about the same thing based on this info.

axl was worse in 92 than ever.. it wasnt the best then. 93 was better.. 92 was when he was haiving problems! 

he needs oxygen coz hes not young anymore! he has to fly around and sing and run and hes not been singing for years! he had many many years off! so let him get back his voice! bbf hasnt proven himself as the best musician. axl is the best. slash is the best. those are not "foot's" songs. so dotn try to compare him yet to the great slash coz he will fall on his face! when he writes a songs like SCOM or YCBM or Estranged ok! but he hasnt. he wont. he will be gone soon so what. ur friend has a foot guitAr and and is a slash scab. ok! dont like to be bad about him but i say what is true! he is trying to play songs thats not his or even slashes. he play that buckeheads parts too.  dont compare coz he will loose~!

That's just not the case, there was in 02, but not anymore. To me most of the Axl bashing in your posts sounds no more convincing then some of the shit the people who are giving Ron a hard time are spreading. Axl used oxygen as well in the Illusion-days, hence you grasping for it to make some sort of point in regards to his vocals now, seems a bit of a stretch.

Don't worry about people bashing Ron they disqualify themselves with the ignorance they spread in their posts. I?ve been a fan of Ron for years now (since "The Adventures Of Bumblefoot") and equally long in regards to Buckethead. They are some of the most talented people to ever pick up the axe, the need people feel to disqualify them on side-issues (like buckets, foot-guitars etc), shows how little substantial they can come up with in regards to the playing.

-PEACE-

I don't compare Slash to Ron. They can't be compared since they are two totally different players. It's true that Slash wrote some good Gn'R songs. But Ron has written some pretty damn good songs himself too. I guess you are not familiar with his work before he joined Guns.
Please remember that Axl hired Ron to play guitar in his band for a reason. And he obviously hired Ron for his skills....

But if you would like to compare the two of them anyway, Slash would loose big time. Even though Ron didn't write Estranged (good song btw) or Don't cry, that doesn't make him a worse player.
As a guitar player Slash wasn't very good at all. I prefer a foot guitar instead of a drunk alcoholic guy who can't bend in pitch, and who is playing sloppy all the time.
Slash was/is a good player, I'm not saying that he is bad. But compare him to Bumblefoot is not even worth to do.
So I prefer not to compare the two of them....
But try to imagine Slash playing some of Ron's stuff.... I laughing just thinking about it.
And Ron can't play exactly like Slash..... noone can. Every player has their own fingerprints. But I think Ron does a great job anyway!

As for the Axl part of this discussion. I didn't know that Axl used oxygen back in 92. But the concert I attended, he sang way better than I've heard him sing on this tour. Sorry to break all of your dreams, but that's the truth.
However, Axl is Guns N' Roses, and there wouldn't be any Gn'R without him.

Well summed up, slash is one of a kind, you can learn his licks learn his solos yet NO ONE can play like him he is just to fluid and bluesy for anyone to match. however BBF kicks and plays his parts well..as well as his own touches i cant wait to see what he does if he stays!!

Fish

I don't compare Slash to Ron. They can't be compared since they are two totally different players. It's true that Slash wrote some good Gn'R songs. But Ron has written some pretty damn good songs himself too. I guess you are not familiar with his work before he joined Guns.
Please remember that Axl hired Ron to play guitar in his band for a reason. And he obviously hired Ron for his skills....

But if you would like to compare the two of them anyway, Slash would loose big time. Even though Ron didn't write Estranged (good song btw) or Don't cry, that doesn't make him a worse player.
As a guitar player Slash wasn't very good at all. I prefer a foot guitar instead of a drunk alcoholic guy who can't bend in pitch, and who is playing sloppy all the time.
Slash was/is a good player, I'm not saying that he is bad. But compare him to Bumblefoot is not even worth to do.
So I prefer not to compare the two of them....
But try to imagine Slash playing some of Ron's stuff.... I laughing just thinking about it.
And Ron can't play exactly like Slash..... noone can. Every player has their own fingerprints. But I think Ron does a great job anyway!

As for the Axl part of this discussion. I didn't know that Axl used oxygen back in 92. But the concert I attended, he sang way better than I've heard him sing on this tour. Sorry to break all of your dreams, but that's the truth.
However, Axl is Guns N' Roses, and there wouldn't be any Gn'R without him.



I am pretty sure Guitarfred is a semi-retarded 7 year old somalian on some Green Peace dudes laptop.  First of all his posts make absolutely no sense but all you people see is that he liked BBF.  His first line is, "I dont compare BBF to Slash"  Then does an entire post comparing him to slash.  He has said nothing of any substance at all other than BBF is better.  Slash is widely considered one of the top 5 rock guitarists of his time so to say he laughs at Slash's classically trained skills is nonsense.

"As a guitar player Slash wasn't very good at all. I prefer a foot guitar instead of a drunk alcoholic guy who can't bend in pitch, and who is playing sloppy all the time."  You do realize you are agreeing with someone who said this right?

I am pretty sure that 95 % of people on this message board read 5 words of every post and then move on.  Bravefish is hilariously ignorant.  The guy says slash sucks and Bravefish replies, "Well summed up, slash is one of a kind".  I can say anything about Bravefish on here because he clearly does not know how to read. 

People are entitled to their opinions, but seriously this Guitarfred is retarded.  He actually says, "Slash wasnt very good at all."  And then in the next line says, "Slash was/is good",  am i the only person who realizes this?

How did you know I am from Somalia??? : ok: It's like you've known me all my life. You're not my lost half brother Baatsum?, are you?
If so, how are the wife and kids? And don't feel bad that our mother adopted you, it was nothing personal...
It's a small world isn't it. My brother got adopted 30 years ago, and now I find him chatting on the same Gn'r forum as me.  :)
Anyway, send my greeting to the mrs and the kids.

That's about the most ignorant post I've ever read on this board.

Thank god someone else is out there who realizes this.  I was just about to schedule a catscan to make sure I hadnt lost my mind.

What can I say? He makes a lot more sense than you do. You are quite wrong, Bravefish is not the ignorant poster here ... YOU ARE. If you hadn't started a whole fucking line of "let's bash bumblefoot" he wouldn't be here defending Ron and saying things you don't want to read about your idol Slash.

i agree with mandy! :hihi: :peace:
peace evryone

I might be missing something, I went back as far as page 8, but I don't see what AxlRose4eva did that was so wrong. What I did see was him coming to the defense of Bucket, Finck and Slash, and then 2 Bumblefoot fans suddenly joined the forum to jump him, and procede to trash the band and Axl. Am I missing something?

Bravefish was arguing with several people here, and made some very slanted statements from what I can see.

No need for a cat scan my dear brother Battsum?. They allready did one back in Somalia.... I don't want to post the result of the cat scan here, since it's family buisness only....

Thanks Mandy! Appreciate it.  :)

The thing I laugh at in this thread is Ron is getting the same treatment that BH got when he joined the band. Oh he looks weird. Oh he plays too fast with no emotion, blah blah blah blah. And now the people that are bashing Ron want BH back when some of them were probably bashing BH when he first joined. ?I dont understand some people. This band is really talented esp Ron. The guy is fucking awesome, some of ?you need to give the guy a chance, he has only been with the band for a month, and he is playing the songs pretty damn good ?for just learning them. Cut the guy some slack.

Well, I guess we all can agree, that most people tend to see a persons "bad sides" instead of what is good.
In this case people are just looking on what they consider to be Ron's bad sides.
We can't love everyone, but there is a good expression that says:

If you don't have anything good to say about a person, don't say anything at all. Keep it to yourself.
Because your personal opinion doesn't meen shit to anybody but yourself....

Let's concentrate on what is good, instead of what is bad. Some of my comments about Axl/Slash were maybe a little over reacted. But I hate when people bash on others by the way they look. If Ron's guitar bothers you, just don't care about it. Instead of giving him piles of shit for having his Bumblefoot guitar....
He is a good man, and doesn't desreve this kind of talk....

The only logical conclusion is that quite a lot of gunners have a very hard time accepting changes.

Once something changes they bombard it as "guilty (of sucking) till proven innocent". There is in no way an openmind towards anything new. Now Buckethead has become part of the history of GNR, they don't see him as a threat anymore and focus on the next new guy. Many people on this board are very close-minded and somehow try to mask it by making main-issues out of side-issues.

-PEACE-

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=32563.msg642172#msg642172

Criticism is one thing, which I accept, but this guy is totally offending Bumblefoot and myself, as well as other people who like Mr. Thal.

You join a forum and trash the band its dedicated to and you have the nerve to say "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it?" Are you fucking kidding me? ?

Oh.... I see. Sorry about that. He was is in the wrong and coming off as a jackass in the process. But I still have to agree with some of his later posts where he wasn't acting like that.

I really dont think you understand what I was saying.  I dont care if you like BBF, or if you dont.  I dont even talk about Slash, I am a Robin Fink fan more than any other guitarist so when you keep bringing up Slash it really confuses me Mandy.  Its great that you pay such close attention to my posts, but i think youre reading what you want to read.  I like Fink better than Slash, Fink is in the band, has written on the CD, my arguement is against people saying that BBF, who by the way up until 2 months ago was a nobody (maybe a select few here heard of him, but I never saw any of you posting about him before he was rumored ot be joining), should be playing the solos and guitar parts Fink wrote.  That being said that is not what I had against Guitarfred or Bravefish

Its cool to come to a GNR forum and totally hate 90% of the band, thats fine, but I at least wish they would make logical statements.  Can none of you read.  The guys post says, "Im not going to compare slash and BBF".  Then he compares slash and bumblefoot.  He then says, "Slash is a bad guitarist".   Then he says, "Im not saying slash is a bad guitarist."  He wasnt even consistent in his own sentences.  Please explain to me Mandy since you apparently find it so brilliant, how these are smart and logical thoughts.  Music to me is subjective, i dont claim my taste is the right taste, i think i know a lot about what sells and what does not and I dont think BBF sells as a leading rock guitarist for GNR.

Anyways, rather than just trying to bash someone or reading 5 words of a post why not take 35 seconds to read this...take a few deep breaths, maybe go back and reread Guitarfred's nonsensical post where he changes his opinion 50 times and spouts off nonsense about Axl sucking and Slash not being a good guitarist (as well as saying Axl is great and Slash is good which again I totally dont understand)...then get a glass of wine and type a logical response.  I would love to hear you explain his post, which you still havent done.

Dude, you were the one who started this whole line of bashing!

Maybe I was wrong, and maybe you didn't talk about Slash at all, but since everyone else bashing Bumblefoot is comparing him to Slash, it must have confused me...

Anyway, I never said his posts are brilliant, I disagree with a few things he said about GNR, but he's a cool guy, he just wants to defend Bumblefoot, and I agree with the things he said about Ron, and that's all. I think he's a brilliant guitarist, I love his solo work, and if given the chance, he will bring some kick-ass stuff to the new band.


Now, if we don't share the same opinion, it's fine by me, just don't bash him when you obviously don't know much about the guy.

The only annoying thing about Bumblefoot is that we have read some of these posts.



/jarmo