Here Today... Gone To Hell!

do you think that VR can survive chinese democracy. once it is released i think that they wont stand a chance. although i am a VR fan, i cannot see an album co produced by pharrel williams and leny kravitz a success but i hope that they prove me wrong!!! i think that the rise of gnr and the slight decline of VR,which may lead to their down fall will provide us with a reunion tour! i think that once the greatest album ever ie chinese democracy is released VR will begin to regret actions fromt the past. i also hope that the law suit will eventually bring about a mutual respect amongst slash, duff and axl!! time will tell!!!!!!! so what do you think...................................?

Yes VR.. will have no problems because of CD...

VR already survived... they already won a grammy with contraband. the hard thing will be for Axl to top that. cuz Chinese Democracy even though highly anticipated by some, will not be very well recivied by most, specially the critics.

Of course not. CD will kill all other bands and halt the music industry as we know it.  :confused:

What's VR got to do with anythink, they and GnR are two seperate bands, and their sales/albums have nothink to do with each other. I really can't see the point in this.

Nonsense
Chinese Democracy will sell great initially because of the history of hype its riding on, and it will be a great album, don't get me wrong,
but it will not be the ground breaking masterpiece, alot of people make it out to be, my estimation is it will be GNR without out the rock, but with the overtop ballads (which is cool) mixed with a wee bit of sterotype early 90s metal (check out bridge in better) which is also cool but none of is ground breaking,
it will be an excellant album and I do look forward to it, but this is not going to be in the league of Real Guns N Roses, and Velvet Revolver shouldn't worry, as they are also selling a quality product... :peace:

The album hasn't been released. So stop judging!!

Sure they will, i think Contraband was a bit rushed but now with al that touring behind them they have grown as a band. Also with all of the musical talent between them i'm sure they will come up with some decent new stuff. Quit the compatition, just be glad to have two great bands out there? : ok:

Bullshit. VR is a band in its own right, how would they be influenced by CD? Slash and co might get loads of questions about it in interviews, but I think for the rest GNR and VR will co-exist as they have since Slash left GNR.

if anything they will help each other. you know people are goona do the whole vr vs gnr thing. the buzz will help both bands.

Agreed.
CD won't be that great. It will be OK, not earth-shaking.

VR shouldn't worry.

Velvet Revolver are only still going because of who they are and the legion of fans they brought with them from their previous bands.

If a new band had brought that album out, it would have flopped pretty spectacularly. It was only the fact that it was Slash, Duff, Matt and Scott from Guns & STP that made people buy the album.

Contraband wasn't at all worthy of critical praise, but I think it sounds like the new stuff should be better. Pharall may not know much about rock, but he will at the very least make the album less middle of the road and far less boring.

OMG!! MY SWEET JESUS! YOU HEARD CD?!? BLOODY AMAZING! I DIDNT EVEN KNOW IT CAME OUT!!

VR doesnt stand a chance. pharell..lenny kravitz?? PSSh.im out.

OMG SO YOU'VE HEARD VRs NEW ALBUM.....No wait didn't think so.

If it isn't your thing fine, but I think this topic should of just been locked instead of just moved. I bet with mygnr being down we get alot more of these kind of topics.

Of course they will, I doubt they even care about CD. They are mature enough to do what they want to do.

More to the point will 'GnR' survive when it comes out? The album and band are pretty much a running joke outside of these boards anyways. An album of piano ballads with electronic beats is hardly going to change the world.

Of course they can make judgements about CD - they are secret co-producers of the album. Didnt you know?

How would Chinese Democracy kill off Velvet Revolver. Please explain because I'm baffled. If anything the success of Chinese Democracy would renew people's interest in Guns n Roses thus increasing Velvet Revolver sales.

That's a fair and level remark.  Thanks for letting me know Better, IRS, and Chinese Democracy are piano ballads with electonic beats, I hadn't picked up on that one yet :P

Chinese Democracy might well overshadow VR, it won't rip the band apart but it might take some limelight away from them.  If GnR put out an EP of studio version of IRS, Better, TWAT, The Blues, Madagascar, Chinese Democracy, Catcher In The Rye, and Rhiad, it would be better than anything that the former members have produced since they quit GnR.  Then there are all the songs we haven't even heard, or heard of, yet.  But GnR's new music is more ambitious, interesting and better than what was on Contraband

The question is more like will Chinese Democracy survive VR. I think the press is going to be on VR's side, but that doesn't mean too much...
One thing is for sure, they're both gonna get a lot of attention.

from what i have heard from the new GnR, sure i like the new tracks, although VR come across more like a band, where as GnR does appear to be Axl + some hired hands. Even Brain nipped off for the moment and has been replaced.

At the moment i'm not even a VR fan, although they have Slash and Scott seems like a good front man, Matt sure can drum, they just need the songs. VR round 1 was ok, but not ok enough for me to buy the music, although have seen the videos and they are good. VR round 2 will be interesting. I think we will see Slash put in a ton of effort into the 2nd VR album, it could work out to be really something  :beer:

I have a more interesting question :o :o :o. Do you think New Axl n' roses will survive to the past of the band and VR 2nd album (togueter)? I don't think so!!! :yes:

I think all in all its a mutually advantaheous situation for both. If anything, the question should be the other way around. I would not be at all surpirsed if VR kick things up to another level on their next album, after a solid and successful debut. Don't be surpirsed if VR do a Green Day in terms of wide mainstream rock appeal.

VR have nothing to fear.  Most people will buy both records.  Seperate bands, both good.

fair enough the album has not been released but we have flavoured some of its tracks and it sounds amazin!! Contraband has been released and its not mind blowing!! ok, its good and i was delighted to hear that it got best guitar album of 2004 on total guitar but democracy will finally bring back some excellant songs and some deadly gnr videos!! im fed up of green day and other "punk" bands rippin off the clash and the sex pistols!!!!!!

WTF?!? FO Rizzle?? wow..

Well said.  I don't think one will hurt the other and to be honest  I think they will do the opposite and help one another.  People who go buy CD will buy the new VR to compare the two.  I think CD will be better because the new GNR music is more diverse then the VR music.  I also think the next two albums will be an indicator for a re-union.  If CD is a success, which I think it will be, media will want to see what this band can do on their own, and if the new VR is good, the VR fans are going to want to see more VR material.

I doubt that VR's new album will be anywhere near the quality of CD!  Once people hear the contributions of Robin, Tommy & Brain too the new GNr; Slash, Duff, & Matt won't be missed as much!  Gimme a break Pharrel, I think that this new VR album is def gonna bomb

what is so hard about people enjoying two albums.. It's like oh no cd might come out, lets all run for the hills and not release anything

Axl's album is different. it's 15 years since new gnr music, it's been toured for twice, and it's the butt of many jokes ,so of course more attention will be focused on it..

Yes Velvet Revolver will survive "Chinese Democracy".. What stupid fucking post..

Talk about judging before you hear it  ::)
Well, I guess you're just one of those people who have decided that CD will be the greatest record ever and VR record will definitely suck.
I don't see any reason why either one of these albums would "suck". Both camps have proven they can write decent/great songs, so im not waiting any less from them.
btw. CD is def gonna bomb.

I think thats:

a) subjective
b) presumptious
c) moronic

I don't understand why people think because axl releases an album that people who enjoy other stuff will just give up on everything else.. Cause someone is a huge axl/new gnr fan they automatically assume things..

Im definetly pro new GNR but with two awesome albums everyone wins, what a rivalry GNR vs VR would make

I think that Velvet Revolver are a great band, their next album will be very good, and they will continue as long as they choose to. The release/success of Chinese Democracy will have little effect on them. That being said, I think that as everyone here is fully aware, Chinese Democracy is going to fucking
SMOKE any Velvet Revolver album ( past or present)!

I think the question may be will velvet revolver survive velvet revolver  :hihi: yeah, they'll survive chinese edmocracy, but i dont imagine them selling more than the 2 million they soundscanned in the US.

If anything, it will make VR sales increase. People will get into GnR and remember that VR band has ex-GnR members in it, so they would a VR album too.

We all know in rock an album can be great but not sell millions..

As for vr survivng vr well here's a little bit of info, look at new gnr, they've toured about  amonth or so, they have never done anything all together for very long periods, lets see what happens when they are touring a year or better, lets see how long everyone wants to keep playing afd.. It's easy to be in a band when you never have to be together

CD will bury Contraband completely bury it!!!!

The whole world will know about the new Guns album once a release date is confirmed. Alot of people will just buy it to be curious what its all about. If there first single is some unreal new direction rocker for these times its all over!! haha

of course it will in sales, the album is long awaited mythical almost.. But I'm looking more at the new vr album and shit like that..

I think people are going to be let down sales wise with CD< I haer crazy shit like 800,000 1 million albums in it's first week..

In slash I trust , Scott is a good singer , matt rules , dave is creative , Duff....is Duff : ok:
So sure they will survive , The new album would be awesome , i'm sure of it!

I've said it many times, and I'll say it again.
VR does not come or go by someone else's work, whether CD comes out or not, whether it is a hit or not. It won't have ANY bearing on what VR does or how they do it.
When VR decides it's time to rock, then and only then, we will rock.

I don't see any problems with VR surving CD......GnR fans have been threatened with this album for years and it hasn't seen the light of day yet :hihi:  wow....4 leaked tracks.....personally i liked 90% of the songs on Contraband better than the leaked tracks

And I think Libertad will be alot better than Contraband as the band will have been playing  together for a few years rather than a few weeks when they went to record CB once Scott signed on

And I think VR will have 10x's the chemistry the new GnR will have even if Axl tours non-stop for the next 2 years.....I mean, the Hammerstein shows were great, but prior to the rehersals, it must have been like, hew , so and so, great to see you, what's it been, since the MSG show back in2002 :hihi:

i dont think the albums even gonna be released, every year a month is given, and it never comes.

i doubt it would effect VR, they have there own dedicated fans, nu-gnr is a different type of music to VR. I think VR have taken too long to do a new album which has made them dissappear a bit but aslong as they are marketted right they will get back into the limelight. GNR i dont think will hit new mainstream audiences due to every mag making a mockery of axl and co.

really man most bands don't release material too often, they just happened to be in your face a lot when they were around for the 15 months.. I think it was pretty normal toured like may 04 released cb june then toured until like new years now soon doing shows again then releasing material...

New gnr has tons of weapons because they have one of the most famous rock catalogs going, so it's not like they are attracting people because of "their" music.. The name, plus afd nr

in  a way dont you think modern guns are cheating by riding off the name?

chinese democracy will be lucky to sell more than the 250000 copies that contraband sold the first week

Chinese Democracy will sell a minimum of 500,000 copies in the first week

Chinese Democracy may outsell VR's albums but who cares? VR will go on to do their thing anyway!

why wouldn't they? they are a great band.

say that again, what's the modern guys.. if you mean slash or duff being ex gnr members or scott ex stp I think that's cool, any resume should include your past accomplishments.. Also it helps people know what makes you famous..

I think he was refering to Axl's band..

Ok I thought I had said it already that's why I ws unsure... of course you think anyone would give a hoot about them if it wasn't called gnr and they had those songs already to play..

Will axl survive this tour should be the new title, actually I hope he does..

Guns wont even survive Chinese Democracy. VR have nothing to worry about. Especially if Axl continues attacking and biting people. They are best rid of him I reckon.

yeah they will survive. no idea who will sell the most records though.
but VR will always have more "cred" in the media, cos they are a new band with a new name.
Axl on the other hand is gonna face a shitstorm of negative press regarding his "coverband" no matter how good his album is!

Just remember one thing:  It is not fair to compare an album that took a year to make to an album that took over a decade to make.  I confident VR will make a bad ass album, and I am looking forward to it!!!!

some of you guys are livin in the past!! ok i can admit that it was the origional line up that got me into gnr int he first place but they came to axl not the other way around!! axl has a mind for music and he knows what elements are need and richard,robin,ron,brain,curtas and dizzy can deliver all of this!! contraband is not an album!!!! it is a collection of good songs!! the topics which they discuss in their lyrics are echoing the work of izzy and axl!!!!!!!!!!!!

Axls band will have no bearing on VRs sales whatsoever.

The interesting thing, (at least in the US) will be how the press as a whole will spin CD coming out vs Libertad. 

IMO, I think that the press and the mass public will lean towards VR.

Axl using the GNR name will work against him and his band.

I bet you Libertad will be out way before Chinese Democracy anyway.

Chinese Democracy will sell a serious amount of copies in the first week. Purely and simply because its been so long in the making EVERYONE wants to hear it. Even if you hate Axl and the new band you cant tell me you aren't curious as to what its going to sound like.

All the same VR are a real deal r'n'r band and wont be affected by CD. I want both bands to just do what they do, VR to rock hard and well, axl to do whatever he's doing lol :peace:

Persoanlly I think CD is gonna get blasted by the press no matter how good it is for any number of reasons: band members, length of time, cost, sound, comparisons to old Guns, etc...

And VR will be compared to their last album and how they grew as a band.....

So, I think VR will have an easier time of it than GnR and they will survive CD if it ever comes out

every once in a while I have one, but very far and few in between ;D :hihi:

I am more curious whether VR will survive "Contraband"
Its a great piece of music, I alternate with GNR stuff and VR, that's how good it is.
If the next album is on par with Contraband or better than it, that is what concerns me most as a fan.

The success of CD will have no bearing on the success of CB and Vice Versa. $30 for great music never killed anyone.

MNW

I think even if Libertard is 3x's better then contraband it will have  a very tough time matching it in sales.. getting together 2 ex gnr memebers plus one replacement of gnr and the lead singer of stp was something that caused interest especially after Audioslave..  Music can be better but who knows if they'll be able to go in strong like they did with slither

Or maybe they still exist cause they were able to write a kick ass record and probuce it!!

bullshit, bullshit bullshit. VR will live and thrive. Grow up, and get a brain.

tbh i think CD is gonna be a dissapointment majorly. i mean the leaked tracks havent blew my mind at all, there good but only on a average basis, and if those tracks are axls stand out tracks then we cant expect too much, especially whent the albums one cd and not 2, id have thought after all those years hed (i cant use my grammers keys for some reason now ???) have gotten more material than just one album.

VR im excited to see what they produce but after all these various things ive heard, you know having loads of guest artists, it seems like we arnt gonna get a album by VR its gonna be more of a  VR and guests album, i mean i dont mind 1 or 2 tracks with guests but a album which most tracks contain guests is silly. 

VR will have the same problem all bands second albums have...labels expect them to sell without promotion

Based on the GNR demos, and the VR songs.? I have to give the edge to GNR, the VR songs are very one dimensional, although slither is a great song.? If I were a VR fan, I would not worry.? VR is an established, original band.? Where as GNR has been remade, and playing the songs from AFD.? I think the CD songs are awesome, but I want to hear more of them, however until we hear more of them, you cant bank on GNR, however you can bank on VR because it has been established.? I love the current GNR, saw them at hammerstein, love the new members, love the new songs.? When I talk GNR, Im talking about the 2006 line up.? The best thing that can can happen is? VR and GNR rival each other head on with new original material.? What a better way to bring back Rock N Roll, then have 2 bands that evolved from the original GNR.

I agree. 

I hope both can avoid beenin compared to each other though cause they are two different things...i mean VR is a success if it goes platinum...axl needs to sell 5X that...i think thats the point though...slash is happy being a good rock band...and making good rock albums...axl wont release anything that isnt as revolutionary as afd and the illusions were

Only reason axl is expected to sell more is because of the gnr name.. if it wasn't called gnr no one would expect him to sell those numbers, also if he didn't wait forever less could still be good

Pharrel is a great producer.....i'm not a VR fan but i almost guarantee that Libertad will kick ass! As for CD, there's enough room for everyone...besides that, lets just wait and see if CD stands up to its own myth (and this really worries me)  :nervous: :yes:

No album can ever live up to such hype... Axl is lucky that he has such a legendary band name on his side.. Little kids are wearing gnr t shirts, as they do ac/dc back in black t shirts..  Anything trendy can sell big time even if it's not great...

I would have loved to see if axl sold records under a different name how much people would buy... That's just my own personal curiousity

I'm alwayz gonna hold a grudge against Axl for not giving up on GNR name.....it's a thing of decency and common sense...long story and not the right thread  :no:

I wish all the best to VR and to everyone who knows when to let go and moves on!  :peace:

I am quite anxious for vr's second effort.. I hope things go according to plans.. I'll feel better once the new shows start in Cali...

I'll say this...

if everything is ok in the VR camp, and they bust their ass and put out a good product, something deep and original and inspiring, then it'll outsell CD.

I honestly believe this now.  Axls attitude and his current lack of respect of fans at shows will be his fownfall in the U.S. I think CD will sell well in Europe though.

I'm concerned about VR though.  there have been far too many "breakup" rumors and rumors of in-fighting.  I remember when I saw VR live it seemed as though they were'nt enjoying themselves. 

I hope VR takes their time and releases the best product they can.  I also need to hear more Slash solos. : ok:

I wouldnt say its decency, I mean if Slash owned the GNR, snakepit or VR would be GNR.  GNR=$$$ and lots of it, thats the common sense part.  And Axl OWNS the name, why shouldnt he use it.  These guys arent lawyers and respectable businessmen, theyre fucking rockstars ... it would be wrong if they did the decent thing .... sorry to get off topic

still off topic: axl's decision to keep and use the name is somehow greedy.....i personally dont think that greed is cool, rockstar or not. And yes, you can urinate on a plane (nothing to do with izzy, just bumped my mind) and still be decent when it comes to your music. Maybe it was more apropriate to use "dignity" instead of "decency", wasnt it?  ::)

my apologies to the one who started this thread - no more off-topics i promise

 :peace:

Reel it back in kids, stay on topic.

IF Chinese Democracy ever comes out, I am sure VR will survive.  The only good thing about GNR being split into the 2 bands we have today is there could be twice the rock music to listen to.  I don't think Chinese Democracy will ever be released, but if it does, VR will survive.  I mean we have all heard the leaks and the live songs, and VR is still alive.  Not sure how adding a few new GNR unheard tracks would be the demise of VR.

No i dont think so Chinese.... will be great

VR wont get hurt from chinese dem  they are mediocer and wont be effected by greatness.

 ::)

There is room enough for both. However, I think that maybe after hearing CITR and "Better," Slash and comp. decided to go back to the drawing board.

No disrespect to your good self or your opinion, but I highly doubt the tunes mentioned above
are going to drive any band, let alone a multi platinum, number 1 selling, Grammy award winning outfit "back to the drawing board".

That's just goofy.

Considering how much better those leaks are than anything from ?Contraband,? I wouldn?t be surprised. And while it?s an accomplishment that VR had a #1 album and won a Grammy, I wouldn?t use that as a barometer to measure quality music. Now that's just goofy...Britney Spears has had several #1 albums and no doubt won countless awards, so what?

?Contraband? was a good, very good album. But if they want to top what Axl is doing, they better come up with something exceptional for their new album.
? ?

Subjective opinion, and you're entilted to it.


I wasn't using it a "barometer to measure quality music", that's a matter of taste.

Just merely stating a band with that kind pedigree/resume and proven track record of success would hardly be "sent back to the drawing board" by a couple of demo's.


? ?

I think they will survive CD but mainly due to the fact that the press will Bash CD because it ain`t gonna be a typical Rock And Roll album and will say that Velvet Revolver is the "real GnR", bla bla. But in my opinion CD will be much better than VR next album  :)

1. Yeah it's my subjective opinion. It's also my subjective opinion that "The Seventh Seal" is better than "American Pie."

2. I don't see why VR wouldn't be threatened by Axl's new demos. Rolling Stone and NME both gave them rave reviews, RS even said the leaks were better than anything on "Contraband." Not that RS is gospel, but that's still gotta sting and be a wake-up call.

I seriously doubt a group of musicians who have had the success they enjoyed in the prior bands and the success they've had collectively beyond the groups that brought them their initial acclaim are "threatened" by anything musically at this point in their careers.

They're seasoned professionals with a proven track record.

Yes, I agree that statement. However, for their new album they need to push the envelope and create something better than ?Contraband.? Artistically, that album was a step back from what both Weiland and Slash/Duff/Matt had done before. If Rolling Stone/NME and the public feel that Guns N? Roses new material outshines VR, VR is going to have to come up with something better than what was on album #1.

So whats the implication here?  That theres some kind of credible consensus that the GNR demos are superior to VRs recordings? 


VRs recieved some good reviews - 4 stars in Rolling Stone for instance.  "Slither" as a single recieved rave reviews.  Better than that, it was validated with something like 12 weeks at #1 on rock radio.  Then they followed it up with another #1 single on rock radio.  Aside from that, whats threatening about two good reviews for Axls demos (although your initial point was about the demos themselves and not the press they garnered)?  Should they be threatened by every bands good review?  Youre writing as if GNRs success somehow affects Velvet Revolvers, which I doubt to be the case.

RS and NME's opinions/comparisons will have absolutely zero baring on VR striving to "come up with something better". ?I don't think musicians of their caliber and background need much in the form of motivation to outdo themselves, confidence and self expectation provides plenty of drive in and of itself.

As for the general music listening publics view, that jury is still in fact out.

Of course VR shouldn?t be threatened by every band?s success, only Guns N? Roses. This will be like David Lee Roth vs. Van Halen. If Guns N? Roses ?Chinese Democracy? sells 15 million copies world-wide, gets tons of press, good reviews and a positive reception from the public, VR is in trouble.

When I listen to any of the GN?R demos it?s like ?Slash who?? ?Duff who??

I?m not claiming to know what?s in people?s minds or what will happen in the future. However, I don?t think it?s far fetched to think that VR could be taking so long because they know that Axl?s new Guns N? Roses outshines ?Contraband.? ? ?

Of course the reviews and opinions of ?Chinese Democracy? are going to affect Velvet Revolver. VR are a successful band, no denying that, but they still dwell in the shadow of the ginger one?

LEGEND

(http://www.truecolor.741.com/gnr/gnr.jpg)

NOT LEGEND

(http://us.movies1.yimg.com/movies.yahoo.com/images/hv/photo/movie_pix/universal_pictures/the_hulk/scott_weiland/hulkpre.jpg)

"Ginger" colored ocular devices tend to cloud objectivty...

Why are they in trouble?  Youre offering fanboy rhetoric without any real basis for it. 




Again, no basis in reality, only in fantasy.

Did I not just state "I?m not claiming to know what?s in people?s minds or what will happen in the future."

My whole point all along has been that if ?Chinese Democracy? takes off, VR are going to have to compete with that, that?s the reality. Your throwing ?fan-boy? around is just derogatory and not relevant. Saying VR is in trouble if ?Chinese Democracy? takes off is on no way, shape or form ?fan-boy rhetoric.? ? ?

Yes my opinion is that the new GN'R songs are better than VR, you are free to feel otherwise, but you wont be called a fan-boy by me.

hehe :hihi: Nice.

Velvet Revolver will survive if they want to. For all we know, Libertad could outsell or be better than CD. CD doesn't sound earthshattering so far, and VR has shown they can write radio songs. Judging by what we've heard, CD doesn't seem like it'll sell that amazingly, and there'll always be a market for a Slash/Weiland album.

Sure, but the problem with your post is that you dont state how or why VR are in trouble if GNR succeed...you dont even state what "trouble" is.

   

Again, this notion is very vague. 

And I dont mean to insult you, I think youre actually one of the boards best posters, but "When I listen to any of the GN?R demos it?s like ?Slash who?? ?Duff who??" sounds a bit like fanboy rhetoric.  The Axl/Weiland post doesnt exactly help matters.  Youre making these comparisons to aggrandize Axl Rose and disparage VR, and thats what makes your posts come across as somewhat fanboyish.


This may be semantic, but I didnt call you a fanboy.  I just think you offered some fanboy rhetoric. 

The real issue isnt VR existing in Axls shadow or vice versa, its both bands living in the original GNRs shadow.  Theres nothing to suggest that VRs success is somehow conditional upon Axls.  The GNR greatest hits album was a huge success right before VR became successful.  And VR were successful before GNR will be successful (as youre predicting).  I doubt Axl was threatened by VRs success.  Its very possible that the two bands can only help each other and the music will do most of the work, but I dont see how it could hurt VR.

Velvet Revolver are in trouble if GN?R succeeds because they are going to play second fiddle to Axl?s new band. Kind of like how in the late 80s, David Lee Roth may have been playing arenas, but he lived under the shadow of his former band. And by ?trouble,? that?s what I mean, playing second fiddle to GN?R. It wont necessarily hurt their sales, but ?Libertad? will be seen as Velvet Revolver?s Fredo to Axl?s Michael Corleone (?Chinese Democracy?).? ?

Thank you kindly.


The VR/GN?R comparisons are solely my opinion. The new songs do make me forget about the old members as I think the replacements are more than adequate. The pictures, as the clich? goes, are worth a thousand words and speak for themselves. Axl is a legend, an icon, Scott Weiland, although quite talented, is not.? ?


There is enough room for both VR and GN?R. However, in this fans humble opinion, Velvet Revolver aren?t in the same league as Axl?s revamped Guns N? Roses. If the general consensus agrees with me, VR are in trouble, and by trouble I mean that they will play second fiddle, be in Axl?s shadow, etc. This could ultimately affect the band?s morale.? ?

So I've been thinking about how we're going to measure how much CD takes off...  In this age of downloading, there's a lot of causal fans who will just download it - just like they did for VR.  So you cant measure success only by certified sales. It doesnt tell the whole story.

But let's say we measure it by critics' reviews instead.  You and I both know that there's quite a few Axl haters out there will give the album a bad rap no matter what.  In fact, I recall some rather unfair reviews for Contraband as well.

If instead, we measure it by the number of radio-friendly songs, then Green Day already won over VR.  2004 will be remembered as the Year of Greenday's rock anthems.  How about the new GNR songs?  I absolutely *love* the new leaks (Better, CITR, etc), but I'm not sure how radio friendly there are.

So how do ya wanna measure and compare the success?

I would think a combination of the methods you proposed would be the fairest. Success is a relative term, there's no one way to determine if something is succesful or not, so it's best to take all means of measuring it into account. It's no science, but it'll help put things in perspective. And you know what... I'm sure a lot of people on here will dissagree or find one reason or the other not to take these measurements into account (once the album has been released and a few singles have been put out). Truth of the matter is, their opinions aren't relevant, they're fans, they're supposed to act like that. It's what the general public thinks that's relevant.

The only people competing are the fans here on this board.  The bands aren't rooting against eachother.

Thats right but oyu have to admit we are almost forced to compare the bands and personally I think Velvet will have a hard time competing with GnR. Just look at the last couple of months...since GnR began the tour, the world has forgotten there is a band called Velvet revolver.

VR wasn't touring and didn't have an album out. Of course they're not gonna get publicity. In theory, both bands should have an album out in Spring of 07 (GnR all 06 VR Spring 07) and then we'll see what happens. I don't think it'll be a great rivalry or compeition at all.

Well, I think VR had more of an influence over the last few years in music than people realize.  Now there are more straight out rock bands than before they released Contraband.  look at Buckcherry reformed and Wolfmother.....

Personally I think the songs I've heard from the revamped GnR are a bit uneven.  i've only like about 30% of what I've heard from 2002 to the present.  But the 30% I really like.  Wheras with VR, I really liked 90% of Contraband.

VR....would never had gone so far IF NOT..Duff and slash...and matt would have been in GNR..admitt it ?? hahaha

Nobody in the world outside of these forums give two shits about either.. it's like when any band comes to town you see them then go back to normal life..

CD won't hurt VR's sales in any way. ?Sure there might be the "CD puts Libertad to shame" (or vice versa) write ups but it won't prevent people from buying both. ?That is the worst that can happen.

it'l help, both reminds of the other (if cd happens)

Mike, we won't see either album till 2007... I don't think anyway.  The wait has killed me.  I am typing only as a ghost now...

the honest truth is that GnR is Old news. to everyone on this board there amazing. to everyone else in the world witch is the other 99.9% of the world does not even know GnR is releaseing a new album. and 70% would prolly rather not listen to it anyway. the album will do good for 1 reason it's name. if VR can come up with a good album and put it out then VR will be a bigger succes the GNR. exspecialy since the young people now a days want new music. not old bands trying to make new music. VR is a fresh band with lots of potential. and GnR is history. all axl can do is write the ending to the story. VR is still at the begining.

A lot of people think VR are a just of has-been's that have combined together just to roll in some more money.

However, Axl has an entirely new band of people that haven't been in the spotlight before and a lot of people have never heard of these people, so I think saying GN'R is "old" news and VR is "the beginning" is a bit of a controversial statement.

Anyway, if GN'R was "old news" then why would people want GN'R news so much?

Will Velvet Revolver Survive Chinese Democracy?

if scott weilands still in the band...  not a fucking chance, bra.

You don't like VR why do you bother wasting your time posting in this section  ::)

Maybe they'll promote each other's albums.
"Buy Libertad and get some Democracy too"  ;)







Yeah, right  ::)

Where does that logic stem from... :hihi:

Will new gnr survive without ten afd songs plus baz n izzy ;D

Im starting to think whoever gets their album out first will have a better chance of surviving the other.  Right now GNR is hot with new songs and touring, but if they don't produce an album out of this is opportunity, that could be it.  VR was hot after their first album, so if they can repeat that success, they could survive no problem.

I?m glad to read that most people think that VR is just a different band, and that actually, they creative stuff has overcome Axl?s long awaited CD. I also think Axl will sell a lot but not because it will be a ground breaking album, but because of the anticipation of it, that being said, I hope they both have great sell, i?ll buy them both actually!!!   : ok:

Im leaning toward buying them both too, if they ever come out.

What? OMG? yeah...

VR would not only survive, but indeed thrive.

But it's really just a hypothetical question, considering Axl's album still doesn't look any closer to seeing the light of day.

the question is: will GnR survive chenese democracy?

VR will just keep releasing boring music while GNR releases masterpieces  :peace:

When people like you say that it's so ironic, since this lineup of GnR havn't even released an album yet, and the only GnR albums you can listen to is the ones that members of VR wrote and created.

With gems like the above this is quickly becoming the typical GNR/VR thread.

Return to topic please.

Haha good call Falcon!


If CD is ever released I don't think it will bury VR.  VR has too much talent not to have an excellent follow up to Contraband.  It would be cool if VR and GNR both have singles out and getting radio time.  All of the sudden there are two legit rock bands in the forefront.  I think it would be pretty cool.

Amen to that!  : ok:

I think if VR and GNR release their albums within a close time frame, GNR in "fall, late fall ... definitely this year" and VR in the spring, that rock music would thrive big time and the biggest winner would be the fans, having the two dominate bands evolve from the original GNR.

STP was a pretty big band. That's a market that will not be affected by CD at all. And a lot of GN'R fans will buy both CDs. Couple that with a tour and one or two catchy singles, and VR will continue to thrive without impact from the efforts of Guns N' Roses.

If CD is a huge hit and VR's next album does only as good as "Contraband," it may cause stress on the band, but who knows.

Velvet Revolver is comprised of some very accomplished musicians in their forties who have enjoyed tremendous success.  They've established a respectable track record as a unit thus far.  They also have wives and families at home.  I highly doubt that particular group of musicians is going to be intimidated by any degree of success Axl has.  They'll be like, "Hey, he sold 20 million, great for him.  Oh well, we're happy with our music, we've got wives/kids to go home and be happy with, so what of it?"  I include the family reference because once you have wife/kids, life suddenly takes a different turn and you stop measuring everything by material success.  And since VR has enjoyed so much material success anyway (their pasts and their current unit), that adds to even less reason why they should give a damn about what Axl is doing.


You are 100% correct, and that has always been the case.  I would wager that 90% of all the "bad blood" between Axl and his former bandmates it is pure bullshit concocted by the fans.  I remember Slash giving an interview saying he hadn't even spoken to Axl in 10 years, and that all the "anger" between them was just media hype.  Because how do you have ongoing anger towards someone you haven't seen in 10 years?  But Slash should've added that the bad blood was media and FAN hype as well.

Same thing for the GNR breakup.  The reality is that only the band members know why the band broke up.  As far as the fans go, well whoever's side you take (Axl's, Slash's, Steven's, etc), you don't know all the facts behind it.  All these "reasons" and "stories" why the band broke up are just biased, largely uniformed opinions from the fans based on who they like better.

haha this is the funnyest thread i ever read.it shud be more like will gnr release chinease democracy cos at this stage it doesnt look lik it.and libertad is full of killer and very fun material.weve heard a few new gnr tunes and a few of dem ar gud.nothing to write home bout!!certainly not up to the standard of november rain estraned and coma.the guitar work on the new gnr material is generic to say the least.

whats chinese democracy, is it some radical chinese movement?

will velvet revolver survive Chinese Democracy? one word......... no

 :peace:

Will Velvet Revolver survive?

Probably not

Will it be because of Chinese Democracy........ NO

No offense but are you like 12?

 :rofl: :rofl: :hihi: :hihi: :rofl: :rofl: :hihi: :hihi: :rofl:  i didn't see this topic before


I think the question should be:
will axl n' roses release chinese democracy before 2020?  :hihi: :hihi:   or
will axl survive to his demons?

Here is where the problem lies , Axl has made this album seem like its "perfect" where it's mind blowing and such. Critics are going to nit pick it to death , VR just want to put out bad ass rock n roll , GNR wants to do something life changing. In this business if you hype something too much it comes to a point where no matter how amazing it is , people will always find its faults before accepting its decency.

When/If it is ever released then you can discuss it.  Otherwise, what is the point.

Let me know when they actually do this please...... :D

good point. lets hope we can discuss "soon."

Disagreed. ?CD will be fantastic, an excellent album. ?There is no stereotypical 90's metal aspect to "Better" or any other song. ?The songs are amalgamations of a different set of influences than Appetite-era GN'R, but still pulled through the filter of melodic, guitar driven rock music.

More to the point, Velvet Revolver's survival has nothing to do with what GN'R does. ?

Axl has not made this album seem like anything, it is the media that has done that.  You are just buying into what the media has made it out to be that Axl is doing or trying to do.  Axl has never said he wants to make the "perfect" record, nor has he said anything remotely on that level.

Ali

It is apples and oranges ... I like all kinds of fruit.

Best point of all.  There's room to like both.  Like I said, what happens to Velvet Revolver or Guns N' Roses will be unrelated to the other.

Ali

Agreed. The only effect I think CD would have on VR would actually be a boost in album sales. If CD comes out and is successful theres sure to be alot of the questions about the old band VR get but in reverse to Axl. And if people who have never heard VR and are newer GNR fans dig CD curiosity might lead them to picking up a VR album.

This post was made a year ago.. almost to the day... how prophetic!

The success of Contraband and failure of Libertad are both connected to GnR but not Chinese Democracy or the new lineup.  A lot of people underestimated or were ignorant to how important Axl and Izzy were to GnR's sound.  A lot of people went in thinking that Slash's presence meant VR would sound just like GnR except with a different singer.  Obviously that didn't happen

Axl has at least been wise in one way, in that he has always maintained that he's not trying to make the same style of music that the old lineup made, that he's trying something different, and the new songs reflect that.  When Chinese Democracy comes out nobody who has listened to his words or his new music should be expecting something that sounds like AFD

Not to be too much of an Izzy fanatic but I think VR's not the only one missing Izzy's songwriting talents. Of the songs I've heard I really LOVE half of em, the other half I can't get into-and I've tried. Not a very good ratio for over a decade of work. Meanwhile I have almost equal sentiment to alot of VR. I really like Contraband and Libertad alot but theres some stuff on there that I will never get into. On the contrary Izzy has released WAY more material than everyone else and I truly believe it's all fantastic. Some of Izzy's lyrics are repetative and not that great but musically it's all there. The only post guns stuff I think anyone has done that gives him a run for his money is Duff's "Beautiful Disease".

I'm sure Axl does miss Izzy too, you can't have a songwriter as gifted as Izzy leave your band and not feel the consequences.  But the one thing Axl has going for him is that he was wise enough to go a different musical direction so that people can't say he's just making inferior rehashes of the music the old GnR made.  With VR, they keep saying they're trying to make down and dirty rock n' roll so it's more notable how much they miss Izzy's great ability to create bluesy, hard rocking tunes

Meanwhile Axl is off trying to make this epic progressive hard rock/metal album that's more influenced by Queen and NIN than by The Stones and Aerosmith, so the loss of Izzy is not as pronounced in the style of music he's making.  But it would be great if after, fingers crossed, CD finally comes out, if Izzy would join Axl and the rest of the new lineup they would write at least a couple songs for the next GnR album even if Izzy doesn't rejoin the band or tour with them

When people mention the loss of Izzy and how that may affect the quality of the new GN'R songs, I think two things:  1)  It's a valid concern.  2)  Thank God I have Tommy Stinson's record because in my estimation, that record shows he's a strong writer in his own right.  That second point makes me forget the first point and its importance.

Again, final judgement has to be reserved until the record comes out.  Keep in mind, we have no idea what songs we've heard demos of will and will not be on the record for sure.

Ali

Well, as I said while certainly losing someone with Izzy's writing talent will hurt any band, I don't feel it that much in GnR's new music just because it's a long ways from the type of stuff that Izzy writes stylistically.  The new GnR songs IMO are great, and show that the guys in the current lineup are fully capable of writing great music themselves, but they sound nothing like anything Izzy would've had a hand in writing.  If Axl was trying to make a sleazy blues rock songs I think Izzy's absence would be a lot more evident.  My basic point was just that I'm sure Axl and Slash/Duff all miss their chemistry with him and his ability to write, but that his absence is a lot more pronounced with the guys in VR than it is with Axl just because of how the type of music each of these guys are making now.  But I would still love to hear Izzy get together and write with Axl again at some point in the future

I agree.  I think Axl is aware of that and that's why he's not trying to make a blues-based rock record without those guys.  But, also, Tommy Stinson is a great writer, so it's not like all the songwriting pressure has to be on him, just like in the old band, Izzy was a great writer who along with Axl wrote a lot of great songs.

Maybe Axl and Izzy and the new band have written together, maybe they did some writing last summer?

Ali

By the time Chinese Democracy comes out, Libertad will already have run it's course.


Failure? Let's not pull the plug just yet....

Exactly.  Some are a bit premature on their pronoucements.

Let's not forget the upcoming VR/AIC tour and how that may affect how long Libertad stays around.   It's easily the best rock show scheduled stateside for the coming months and will no doubt have a positive impact on sales.   

The only problem I see with that is that Alice In Chains has no album to cross-promote with the tour.  Personally, if I were to go it would be to see VR.  I'm not sure about seeing someone else trying to recreate Layne Staley's vocals.  That guy was too unique with his tone and his amazing control of his voice.  We'll see, I guess.

Ali

as much as I want CD to do well, It wont happen,, It's gonna be an epic album , but It won't sell well.. 

Ive been saying this for years


Chinese Democracy sells are not gonna be an indicator of whether or not GNR are a success.


Like "Libertad" lets see how the album after CD sells to better gauge the future of GNR.


Chinese Democracy will sell out of pure curiosity alone. If the album after that sells well also, they are gonna be around for awhile.

If the 2nd album comes nowhere close to CD,we will have the same discussions about GNR.




VR had a lot of excitement and hype when CB was released. As u can see, most of those people havent stuck around for Libertad so obviously they weren't very happy with Contraband.

Vr won't survive...

well, over a year since this thread was started and VR released Libertad,  are embarking on a tour with AIC and low and behold, we are still waiting and wondering when Chinese Democracy will see the light of day, and with Axl and his merry men that he calls GnR on tour, it doesn't appear we are any closer to Chinese Democracy dropping than we were back when this thread was started :-\

fucking pathetic

The better question is will VR survive Libertad tanking? :-\

AFD didn't sell 100000 copies until it was out for a year :o

You can't compare sales trends for a debut from an unknown band, to the sales figures of a band that's comprised of well known rockstars whose debut album went double platinum just 3 years ago

Right on.  Not at all the same situation.  Totally unfair comparison. 

Give Libertad some time before pronouncing it anything.

Ali

And Appetite has songs people like.  :o




/jarmo

that was kinda nonsense.

? ? ?Different bands, one has a new C.D. their 2nd. the other doesn't as of yet.? How can there be a comparison when GnR hasn't released anything yet.? I love GnR but why ask if another band can survive after another band releases a C.D. that has been in the making for more than a decade.? The possibility of Velvet Revolver falling apart because of GnR releasing a C.D. I don't think has any merit.? I posted before that I think VR will (Maybe) breakup for other reasons but not because of GnR and an impending C.D.
? ? ?This thread has too many varibles that leads to so many different areas and really seems kind of nonsensical.? ?That's just my probably usless opinion.

I don?t for 1 second think that CD will be the best album ever blablabla  :drool: I think many ppl will love it and celebrate the big return of Axl..And for just as many ppl it will just be a album that come and goes...

To the question itself..I don?t think VR will survive themselves..This supergroups never lasts...VR doesn?t wanna end up like ASIA ?  :nervous:

velvet revolver will be crushed when chinese democracy comes out!  the 3 guys who were in Guns are going to regret their whole lives after deciding not to do whatever axl tells them to do, slash will take it the worst. scott will hear axl sing and realize he's not worthy of being in axls shadow.   the other guy in the band.. the one in the tuque.. he kills himself.

Post of the year. I'm still laughing my fucking ass off! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yep, it's the awful truth....... :rofl:

Hahaha....not to kiss ass or anything, but I found this post to be pretty damned funny.