Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://www.dinosaurrockguitar.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2846

As you can see, opinions are drastically different when you leave the fan forums......

These guitar players are awful in the clip the review.

fuckers... If blash had played the exact same thing they would have said it was awsome...

Funny how they use the RiR performance to bash the new band. Why don't they use Download's version of NR??  it's on Youtube also .    Dumbasses.

Well, that is a player forum, most there don't look too highly on Slash.  He is not "technical" enough, however, they do respect his feel and ability to write timeless solo's.  They just feel the solo's are butchered and Axl's voice sucks in this song.  Is it fair?  no.....  But was actually a good pro shot with good Audio, perfect to make and objective judgement.

I don't have a problem with anything they said, and neithe should any of us..

lets be honest.  Outside this board the new band does not have any respect.  You can't just take 10 + years off and put the title Guns N' Roses on a bunch of new guys and have the general public accept them like they were back in the day.  I expect to hear comments like these until CD comes out and establishes the new band in history.  I expect the new band will make their mark one day.  From the leaks, it sounds promising.  Until then we can't get frustrated about these kind comments.

netrix, perfect attitude.  We are homers and always want to defend.  But it is good to see what others are thinking!  GNR still has a long way to go, but they are on the right track....Well, as long as the guitars are better on the album they are!

Like I'm going to sit here and listen to a fuckin' Auburn WAR EAGLE/TIGER/....we have no idea what our mascot is...on top of that, you probably never even saw the old band play...or the new band so you really have no basis to judge anything remotely related to a live Gnr show. I suggest actually going to a concert....ah fuck it...you go to AUBURN.  ::)

if slash would come back it would make everyones day

IF a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass a hoppin'....no it would not make everyone's day. :D

Well, we don't give a shit about what they think, do we? I've watched a ton of boots from this tour and they sound damn good.  :rant:

the one Finck solo is really bad

Bumblefoot solo is really good not as good as a slash solo but good

Why should I care what these people think? I like what I like, what other people think doesn't really matter to me as long as I enjoy it.

Well clearly they haven't listened to slash's solo's. Richard nails the solo note for note practically and has a ton of fucking emotion.... bumble is wicked. Robin can be iffy but can also be amazing...

I don't care what anyone else thinks... I love the new gnr.

Its a set-up when you try to judge them by they rio audio....duh

...and theres dozens of examples of slash fucking up solos on the old bootlegs, but anything the new band does wrong they get crucified...people have these glazed over memories of the old band being perfect...remember november rain on the 1992 vma's? i remember cringing when slash was playing the solos. not bashing slash, most of the time he was fantastic, but he wasnt perfect by any means.

I agree with most of those comments and I think outside the diehard element, that is/will be, the general consensus at this stage

they need to leave the classics well alone and play their own material, fullstop.

"i liked Izzy's solo except for the bend, they were out of tune and sounded like he forced emotion into it. Which is of course never a good thing. "

hahaha that guy thought Richard was Izzy

the thing is slash normally nailed these solos all by himself and on most nights one of the 3 mess it up

but who cares we have GNR back

mmm.. this strain of GNR, is quite a different animal

LOL. So this is from the Rio broadcast in which half of the instruments were muted in the mix? umm...okay.  ::)

btw, Axl sounds great in that clip, but you can judge from several posters that their minds had already been made up before 

Fortus did his solo very well, btw.

Thal also was very solid.

Robin is...well...Robin.

Why is it that anyone who doesn't worship every performance is labeled a "hater", and their minds were already made up? But people who praise it are labeled 100% correct? I dont get it. People should be able to give their honest opinion without labels being attached. If a non GNR forum thread that had a postive opinion about these guitarists was posted, would you say their minds were already made up?

LOL. did you read some of the comments in that thread? Without directly quoting and drawing attention to the perpetrators, they attacked axl's voice on NR which is clearly the equal of the Live Era version of NR, attacked Thal as a wannabe rapper, and compared Fortus to a sports bar calibre cover band guitarist.

Correct me if I am wrong, but there was clearly a bias in some of the comments written in that thread. They can criticize the performance but to judge of the talents of the new guys based on this single sample and enriched in such hyperbole reeks of typical hater behavior.

please admit pitman has to go

Pittman's contributions are critical. He is the difference between the demo and live versions of IRS. A very solid contribution.

won't agree with u on this one

I was weary of the demo version IRS: the live version sold me.

Yeah, I read the thread. I will admit some of the comments were harsh, and they should have been given some more boots before coming to such a judgement. But the guys do have some valid points. While Finck has improved, he does still make mistakes from time to time(I am sure you would admit that). Bumblefoot isn't replicating what BH does at these shows, and if he is, someone please send me the boots where he is doing so. Their comments towards Axl were definitely a rush to judgement. If they think he sings bad on NR, they better not listen to Better. :hihi: I think overall, Axl is doing a good job. But remember, people at that forum dont follow the band like we do. They may not have heard GNR in years. So a little criticism is to be expected.

It's hard to realise that there is life after the forums.
 Ok men, this new axl band is givin' their best but they have nothin to do
 I think they tell the things how they're, a good band but not a masterband, not the band that shocked the world. They have nothin to do

Those are like 10 guys on forum called dinosaur forum or something.

YOu think 10 guys on a messageboard hold more weight than the 500000 people Axl is playing to over in Europe who are suffering through like 10 other bands just to see him.

Comon....

To 90% of the people GNR was AXL and Slash. Unfortunately Slash is gone but if Axl can write good music that is all that will matter.

His contributions may be critical on the album, but during a live set, Dizzy could probably do Pitman's work.

How exactly can this be known without knowing the precise arrangements of the new songs and the new verisons of the old songs?

Take these opinions with a grain of salt. :yes:

Figures they'd use the worst performance available to judge it from.  Axl doesn't sound good there.  He sounds a million times better on the other boots from this tour, but of course they wouldn't dare use those ones to judge the new band from would they  ::)

That RIR performance is going to be fodder for the GnR haters.  That feed and mix sound awful for that performance but the band sounded nothing like that at the show I was at, nor from any of the other boots I've seen.  Why don't you post a clip in that thread of Madagascar in Budapest or November Rain at Download and see if they still think Axl's voice is shot? 

I just hope this drives down the price of tickets cause my ass is going to every Texas show they got. I dont care if Axl sits on a toilet on stage and farts every song out while smoking a thick stogie cause he wants to save his voice to sing to the hot chicks he has in his hotel room after the show.

I have this sneaking suspicion that Pittman is like Axl's right hand man. Apparently they work very closely in the studio. If you look in the photos of the group when they bow at the end of a concert, Pittman is usually right next to Axl.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  It doesnt matter for shit what these 'critics' say or anyone else who wants to bash the band.  The only opinions that matter are the fans.  The ones who will go to the concerts, the ones who will buy the albums (when we get the fucking chance!!!)  No-one else counts! 

As far as I'm concerned (my honest opinion!) Finck can be amazing though sometimes just good.  Bumblefoot impresses but needs a bit more time to really make his mark in the band.  Tommy I love the guy (I loved the Replacements) and Richard Fortus (for me) did the best solo at both Hammersmith and Download both of which I attended.  Dizzy fucking rocks and the jury is out on Pitman.  Brain outplays Matt Sorum (for me) and he's majorly cute.  Axl is God and I wont stand for any dissin' of him.  Both shows I've been too this last week were vocally out of this world.

yep....

would make 99 percent of gnr fans, forums are different... Most of the people that were following gnr when they were big are now raising families working etc... I was checking the how old  are you poll, the place is more people who didn't see them play

I don't care what they think. They'll all be kissing GN'R if it gets big again.

what makes you say that?? I don't care what bands become big again, I'm not going to act like I'm 16 again.. Most people once they past their teen years or early twenties they don't go ape shit again because a band is back..

with the exception of being a working professional with a wonderful wife and 2 kids...I feel like I'm 16 again!   :beer:   GNR is back baby!!  Happy Father's Day folks.   :peace:

how can they be back, all the people are pretty much new.. :P

Well I don't feel they are back, I feel axl is back with a name I know...

if the people I watched at 16 didn't return then they aren't back

yes happy father's day :beer:

Yes, you are quite right. You cant expect others to accept this. Its easy for most of us, we have known these players for as long as the old guys now, more or less. For people outside the community they are nothing special. Yet. You cant expect average interested people to dig up these bits on the Internet. For them this is brand new, not something that got established in 1998 and we are used too. They need time, and Axl knows he have to do it carefully. Until Chinese Democracy comes out this band have to prove themselves, and its a loose-loose situation anyway. I admire Axl to bits to go thru this just to give us the music.

It looks promising enough...it will be ok. Just give people time.

I guess when I say they're back, I'm referring to GNR the entity, not "GNR Axl-Slash-Duff-Izzy, etc." 

Also, when I say they're back, just listen or watch an '06 song after an '02 song.  99.9% of folks would tell you, and I think you'd admit, Axl's vocals, look, and intensity/heart are 100 times better now.  Robin is 1000 times better than '02 as well.  Is there another rock band out there you'd like to see more? 

Now it's time for me to go fishing with my 3 year old for the first time in his life...how's that for a Father's Day!   :love: 

As soon as somebody likes the show, they're a "fan boy".

As soon as somebody doesn't, they're a "realist".  :hihi:




/jarmo

I think it's great when someone likes the shows or the new guys, I only hate when so called gnr fans hate the old band or the old guys..

it would be like going to the queen board saying I love queen but hate freddy mercury, the new guy is queen :hihi:

it would be like telling someone I'm a huge gnr fan and they go yeah slash izzy rock, then the person saying no robin richard tommy brain, and they go who??

Mike Guiliana - I'm with you all of the way. Its good to hear someone speak sense on this board whilst everyone sucks up to Axl and the new band as if they are the greatest thing ever. Theyre not, and I doubt they will be - theylll always have the shadow of the classic lineup hanging over them. Why do you think Axl needs to haul Izzy out night after night. To add some credibility, thats why. 'Oh look theres actually 2 members of Guns n Roses up there!'

I saw these new guys at Hammersmith and it rocked, dont get me wrong. But I felt like I was being conned. Which I guess, I was.

Cheers

Great post....

Cheers!

You went to the arena and thought it rocked but thought you were being conned?Why? Someone tell you the originals were back? Someone force you to go at gunpoint? They put a tophat on Robin and call him Slash? I dont understand your con part. I am sure you are a reasonable adult and knew before going that some of the original members werent there. It makes no sense.

interesting perception Jarmo

I see it similarly, although I think it goes more like:

Blindly salivating over even the lamest Axl/hired Guns band performance etc..= realist
Questioning the emperors new clothes or objectively critiquing one of our favourite singers of all time = 'hater'

i guess perception is indeed reality  :)

Well I have mixed feelings on the whole thing.

On one hand - on the new music i've heard from this line up - you know the stuff: the blues, madagascar, catcher, twat, irs, better......i've felt the new band were simply stunning, awe inspiring, and all around fantastic!!!

On the other hand - when they play the old songs, and in particular the solos composed and previously performed by Slash, I do notice that its a cover of someone elses version. Its a very cool rocking cover version, but if i'm honest I do feel its not quite what it once was, simply from the virtue of it being different people.

Thats not to say I don't support the new band, I'll kill to go to the aussie shows, I'll buy the CD on the first day, and i'll rock out to them for sure.

On the NR video in this thread, I thought Richard did an admirable job of trying to get the same feel, I thought Robin just didn't capture the moment in this instance (no disrespect to robin - i'm not a hater, i LOVE his work on the new songs soooo much, but i just feel this particualr NR solo is not his best hour),  and I thought bumble's solo while very cool - lost a bit of the emotion that would have been in slashs. To me it was more of a cover of buckethead's shreddy outtro.

Now in saying that - i want to go on the record and say that all 3 of these guys are worldclass top notch performers - and I don't take anything away from the new band, I love them.

However, I do feel that in playing the classic hits, esentially what the band is being asked to do is play other people's music, and all musicians will shine more on their own material than on a cover.

So I guess i'm trying to say - to me the new band does an impressive, fun and excellent version of the old songs, enough to rock out to and have a great time, however if people are going to want them to replicate the exact playing and feel of another player then by virture of the simple fact that they are themselves and not that other player, it would never stand up to that test.

Where the new band shine as excellent, is when playing their own material, and I just hope Axl gives us the chance to see more of that soon (ala CD or a setlist heavier in new songs).

I think robin is bad at november rain ever since 02... While his playing is definetly better he just never caputred that song

 :rofl:

Did you feel conned when Tracii Guns & Rob Gardener weren't there either? Because technically Axl, Izzy, Duff, Tracii Guns & Rob Gardener are the originals...  Even though those 2 didn't help build the "empire" just create it.

Dizzy Reed is that you?

Dont be a picky wiseass. Technically this, technically that. Who cares. Were those guys on any Guns recordings or world tours or anything? Nah. Theyre irrelevant. Especially a man called Tracii fer Christ sakes. Whats all that about. Thats my Aunt's name.

If you want to know, I felt conned because theres a bunch of guys on stage butchering all of Slash's solos, Chris Pittman (why oh why Lord), and imo fairly ordinary new tracks at best. TWAT excepted - great song. Its as if Axl decides to hide for 10+ years and then come back with a totally new band and hope that no one will notice. 'Oh look Slash looks a bit funny with a bee guitar and a beanie - I liked his top hat better.'

I like Axl Rose, I like his work, but this whole insistence that this is GNR just doesnt cut it with me. A guy with a foot shaped guitar?! Cmon..... Guns didnt need stupid gimmicks in the old days. And they certainly didnt 'rock out' by playing Christina Aguilera. Most dangerous band in the world - lol.

I could go on.

Why cant he just call the band 'The Axl Rose Band' or something???!

Go on people, flame away.

Why cant he just call the band 'The Axl Rose Band' or something???!
Because the people that left Guns N' Roses LEFT Guns N' Roses. They were not fired. Axl Rose should not have to sit at home and do nothing or rename HIS band because 2 guys decided to QUIT.

Why can't people just understand that Slash and Duff quit and were not fired by a dictator???

I love Axl. But the version of the story thats out there is that he got the rights to the name by refusing to go on stage unless everyone else signed. And at a time when guns didnt need another riot. So its not like he owns the band name cos everyone else just got bored and walked away.

Hell  I might quit too if i was one of the most famous guitarists of my generation and Axl was having paul huge re-record my parts, and refusing to use my material (see snakepit1) and the day before I quit I spent the day in the studio with him and he wouldn't even talk to me or look at me. Which is what slash said happened I think.

Look I'm not antil-axl - I think he is the best frontman of all time, and will always be my favourite vocalist of all time, and one of the most amazing creative songwriters out there. He also seems pretty funny and smart in interviews. However lets not sanatise the past to make him perfect. His track history of feuds and trouble shows that he's not always the easiest person to work with.

I completely understand that. Being a huge Pink Floyd fan, I always draw alot of comparisions between the two bands history. I always wonder if Roger Waters should've been nicer to Dave, Nick and Richard or if they should've worked harder. In the end I think they should've worked harder. You hear ALOT of stories about how Roger worked and acted and besides the riots and late starts, it's pretty similar to Axl.

I feel that the leader/frontman has a responsibility to do just that; lead. For me all the pushing and pulling that goes on leads to a better product in the end for us the fans. Having heard what we have of Chinese Democracy I think that it's very much Guns N' Roses material. To me, it shows who is/was right in this whole situation.

I think Axl said something once about how the Snakepit album was what Slash wanted the next album to be. From what I've heard I'd take "Better" alone over that ENTIRE album, Contraband too for that matter.

I'm not trying to saint Axl in anyway or forget about shit that he's done that sucked. I just think he's correct in this situation and judging by the music it sounds like he knows whats best for GNR.

I'll admit VR is in a different style...(although I still love VR)...but....

i've always thought if you took "It's 5 O'clock Somewhwere" and added Axl (like had he been into it) then you'd have an album of rocker type songs quite similar to stuff like "Back off Bitch" and "Perfect Crime" and "Bad Apples" - its that kind of rocky guitar riffs with strong lead guitar parts.  The riffs are the same kind of thing, the only thing that stops them being as good songs is no axl.

Like wise i think if you added Slash to TWAT, the blues, maddy,  or Cather you'd have an illusion era song in the same kind of style as Breakdown or Estranged....

Now before everyone bashes me, i'm not saying this should be done, and I accept the new band is the way it is, but i just find the similarity interesting when so much was ade of the creative differences and so far the leaks don't seem all that different.

I'll grant that  "better" is a little bit different - and I supose the stuff like Silkworms. Maybe I'm wromg I dunno!!...

Anyway I agree Better is a killer track, love that song, i know it was written by robin but its the axl that makes it rock the most I think, hehe..immagine it sung by scott or someone and u see what i mean, it would become like the song "Superhuman" on contraband ;)