Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Just asking... I mean are die hard new gnr fans the best people to say wether something is good or not...

Would you go to a backstreet boy's board for real opinions on their music or would you feel it was one sided?

Most fan boards everyone are super fans who get defensive if something negative is said

So are new gnr and axl die hard the best to be judging their music fairly?

Don't get mad, just a though, I know back in the day no one could say anything bad about gnr, and songs I defended I now see what people might have meant...

Nope they're not.  The best critic is a truly unbiased one.  Look at the daily rants on here about stuff.  The diehard fans feel that they're owed more and in a sense some artists actually do give their diehards a little extra stuff.  David Bowie actually has Bowienet for his fans which (sure they have to pay $60 a year subscription) but you get exclusive cds only available on there, you get rare mp3s from stuff he's never released, he actually gave away 130 pairs of tickets to a special concert for them only.  And he broadcasts some of his old concerts over it.  The only problem now is that since his health has been bad, it's not really been updated much, so it's not worth the membership anymore like it used to be.  Hell they had giveaways all the time on there too.

I was no where near a die hard fan of any band till I heard Chinese Democracy.
I still consider myself as a general music fan.
Count me as a good critic.
:confused:

are you a die hard new gnr fan, or a certain member?? Maybe robin or axl? I am not really a die hard of any other band but gnr

the shows are for the fans, therefore there's are the only opinions that matter.

I was talking about songs in general ,I mean would anyone go bonkers over leaks from other group to this degree? We all tend to make something better or protect it when it's our favorite artists.. it's like aguy who is in love with some wacky bitch and all his friends are like she's no good or she's nuts but he's so blinded he can't see it.. Same shit goes on the vr forums, people get so defensive and crazy..

There is no way a die-hard fan of any band is really a good judge of music for that band. Because you get 2 extremes from die-hard fans when new music is put up, they either love it and its great music, or the other extreme which it sucks it sounds nothing like their old stuff, the band sold out (well that was my argument when the load the shit and reload the shit came out for metallica)..so The real people I think that can judge this new music the best is people that are not in total love with all things GNR...




Are you talking about the Song Chinese Democracy or some of the leaks like better, and IRS, because i mean if you haven't seen em live then I can only think the song Chinese Democracy sucks, unless of course your a die hard gnr fan than of course you would love anything, based on theory above....but the bootlegs of the song CD are horrible, the rock in rio peformances of it have sucked, so i dont quite see how anybody can be exactly in love with that song with the crappy bootlegs we have of it. Now maybe if it had the same quality leak as lets say Better we could judge it whole lot better, no pun intended. BTW I love the new and old GNR and have seen both live. I think the new stuff is just O.k...if you compare it too old the leaks dont stand up to some of the hits of old, but its till pretty good music though maybe some studio quality tracks without a drum machine might make em better. :smoking:

Better is a killer tune, I think the song cd is a fraction of better,,, It's a song I easily forget..

I'm one that belives after hearing Chinese Democracy live, if I had a leak with the same quality level as Better than I would actually listen to that song and put on a cd to drive around too. :smoking:

If you read my posts, you'd know that I love all the members who made the music.
A band is not one person. Well maybe not even the individuals in the band.
It's, so to speak, the muse that dwell in the band.
Till she gets bored with the members this band kickass.

your posts made me feel you were fond of robin.. Maybe I read them wrong, you know me :hihi:

They bitch and whine continually like the critics so if that's the definition of good they're good critics. ?

Yep I'm found of Robin, Brain and Chris.  :love: I like all the members. And Bucket! :crying:
well never mind I'm thankful to Ron for his subbing for BH.


Yeah I'm talking about the Song Chinese Democracy. Ever thought some people might have sharper ears for music than you?

Yeah I'm talking about the Song Chinese Democracy. Ever thought some people might have sharper ears for music than you?

I guess I was a little harsh, I wasnt trying to be insulting just really stating that a good studio track would be the real way to judge that song if hasnt been seen live, The quality of the song is not good...I myself can't really stand to listen to it anymore after hearing the better demos...Im not saying the song sucks cuz I like it live, I think the bootlegs do it horrible justice. :smoking:

Im hardcoe about GNR, the real GNR specifically but I guess Im reasonably hardcore about this band as well. I consider myself an objective critic but back in the day I wasnt so objective, a bit younger and GNR couldnt put a foot wrong in my view then. Now I can see the UYI bloat era had many flaws

Well CD is like the sgt pepper title song. You can sorta see where it's heading for.

I'm a die hard GnR fan, and while I consider myself unbiased, I still think GnR fans in general cannot be good critics about GnR.

Seeing as how there aren't many mass groups of fans hanging around nowadays, most of us are pretty alone outside the GnR community when it comes to GnR knowledge. This, in turn, gives us a sense of "knowing" about the band, their skills, what is and isn't really them, etc.

Just look at the leaked track debacle recently. There were those that strongly felt that the files were real. There were those that strongly felt they were fake. There was maybe two or three who sat back, and took things into consideration.

Of course, to play the Devil's Advocate, to be a true fan means you must have a taste for said bands talent, and therefore may be considered a good critic.

Then again, who's kidding who. Most GnR fans don't know their own asses from a hole in the ground. If I ever (highly doubted) need good info about a Backstreet Boys song, I'll head over to one of their fan forums.

If I need info about a GnR tune? I'll ask a member of the band repeatedly until they answer. Or, I'll just judge for myself.

In closing, die hard GnR fans are left alone so long with their own, unchallenged opinions of the band, they wind up about as helpful in a debate as a southern Christian on Creation.

The diehards are good critics within the box of Guns N Roses, and especially the new band. I think they are good at comparing the new songs with one another. Outside this small box the diehards have absolutely no perspective and are not good critics. You need to listen to A LOT of music to have decent perspective on one particular band.

hmm well the die hard fans of the "new" gn'r maybe aint the best citics.. but we are far better critics then the haters of new gn'r and axl.. you know the people who only like gn'r for the 87-93 era and slash fans..

me myself is a die hard fan.. both of the old AND the new.. like "new" guns are much better than velvet revolver for example in my opinion

Axl, robin, ron, richard, tommy, dizzy, brain and pitman are gn'r today and i absolutely love 'em :love:

Unfortunately, GnR is one of those unique cases where you have Old Band vs. New Band. And the fans, 90 percent of the time, fall into this category.

And yes, if you feel a sudden urge to tell the entire forum that you don't fall into this category, you probably do.

I consider myself a die hard fan of GNR...on Axl in particular. On that notion ,I feel that those that are die hards are terrible critics. I am so rabid about GNR (Axl in particular) that I would buy an album even if it consisted of sounds of Axl beating up his old girlfriends.

I'd pay for that.

Well its only natural to compare old music with new music, escpically (god i cant spell) when the band changes so many members with no new matieral out..its hard to make a case with new gnr if the people your trying to convice haven't seen em live (both old and new) because theres no studio album to compare with. So it kinda sucks that way. The real comparions will happen this fall (hopefully). ?:smoking:

I consider myself a good critic...and I think most fans are
Remember, no one is born a GNR fan. People listen to the albums/songs, and then they ultimately become fans...so, at the beginning, everyone's an unbiased critic. and then those unbiased critics become fans because the music is damn good

and the whole backstreet boy thing? i mean, ultimately, there will be people who follow a band blindly because its "trendy", even if the music sucks. I guess the true test to see if a band puts out good music is answered by a simple question: is it timeless? GNR still attracts many unbiased critics to their music (and they in turn become fans). i doubt that the backstreet boys could say the same for them ?:hihi:

You never heard Chinesese Democracy. If You like Guns and Roses I mean you like Axl Rose. Slash, Duff, Dizzy, Gilby, Steven, Matt, Dizzy. I have never heard on Guns record Stinson, Bumle Funcle Sruncle, Fortus, Finck, Srinck. Brain. :rofl:. Ok. I Have one thing to say this band is a one big joke. Sad joke  :'( :'( :'(

Then you wouldn't have liked Guns N Roses in 1986 if you had been around.

Im a good food critic  :hihi:

http://sydfoodblog.blogspot.com

What does that make you then, spending your time bitching about a band that is such a joke, dont you have better things to do with your time?  Obviously not!  Oh and instead of putting down the new band you should try to learn how to put together a decent sentence, it might help you in life one day.   Talking in fragments makes your opinion even less valid.

I think the best critic is one familiar enough with the music to be able to, for example, accurately compare previous works by the artist to a new release. I don't think that somebody who would say Axl Rose is one of their "Idols" or compare him with "God" would be a good critic. There are exceptions to that though, some people are able to swallow their pride and say something "sucks", like Axl's voice and Robin's guitar playing in 2002. (And for the record, Axl is one of my "Idols" and since Robin has learned to play guitar well, he's won me over) ;)

I think die hards are not very good critics. We have a thread on here comparing TWAT to Paradise City. I'll tell you exactly what I think of the new songs, as a die hard fan, trying to be honest. Better has single potential, though it's not in the same league as PC, SCOM, Jungle, or YCBM.? The Blues has potential to be a classic song although I have no idea how it would do as a single in this day an age. Chinese Democracy is a solid album track. Madagascar is a killer album track. TWAT is an epic album track in the vain of estranged, but not as good as estranged. IRS is a solid album track and CITR is a classic rock sounding ballad that just isn't a classic, it's missing something to make it a classic . I think Chinese Democracy has potential to be a classic album if Axl has a couple of rock songs that are in the same league as PC and Jungle.? ?

no they are not

 i am a die hard fan of axl and i think he can do no wrong. pretty pathetic but thats the way it is. ive even accepted the braids as hot,,and that took a little bit of time believe me. :drool:

Everyone's a critic.

A Non fan opinion doesnt mean more than my opinion and vice versa


Music is about CONNECTION.

How well u connect.

Die Hard fans are fans that have found something they can identify and relate with. Every song it seems speaks to u and connects with u in some way whereas a casual fan only listens to the hit songs and the music but they dont HEAR it.


Take RHCP's new album Stadium Arcadium, to me all 28 songs are masterpieces and its one of the most amazing albums ever made.

Why do i feel that way?

Cause I connect with it mentally,emotionally,physically just every part of my soul and heart connects.

Now someone who doesnt connect may like 4 or 5 or 6 songs but they wont be able to hear and experience it the way i do just as people with U2 feel that way about them but U couldnt make me listen to U2 unless u held a gun to my head.

Totally agree.  And yes I do think 'die hard fans' can be good critics.  If I don't think GNR have done something particularly well I will say so.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Personally on another level I think Die Hard fans are the WORST CRITICS for a different reason.


Mattattack Better in my opinion kicks the shit out of and pisses all over YCBM.


The Blues is just behind Estranged,NR and Patience in the ballad dept.

Old GNR fans are the worst critics cause no matter how great the new songs are, many out of loyalty will never give them proper respect.


Better is one of the top 10 greatest GNR songs ever.

^ I don't think anyone is anti better, I'm yet to see someone that doesn't like it here old fan new fan or whatever,...How much it may move  a person or where it ranks is another story..

A die hard is the wrost critic simply because there's the protection factor... People here have heard others get down on axl, or the new band and they want anything played to be great.. Like who would say well if you listen to something ten times it's better or with headphones you'll like it.. Stuff like that is going the EXRTA mile only  adie hard would to find a way to convince others something is good.. Anything else you'd give 1-2 listens and be done with it, no 5 more listens or switch to headphones.. You see personal attacks all the time too.. Die hards are the worst fans to judge music.... Only  a few can be honest and ride the fence between both gnr's..

It's the same shit with snakepit or vr, you know if axl sang those songs more people would like them or put in the extra affort to enjoy them....

It's all normal, but the opinions aren't alwaysa honest.. If you've been following one album for 8 years or so you're going to try and love whatever is thrown at you to justify the wait..

There are many characters on this forum ,and you know their roles, ti would be crazy for some to say that's bad.. It wouldn't fit their part..

I would say Im a general music fan, but when it comes to GNR, Im definetly a die hard fan.  I love both bands old and new.  But when people say the new band is bullshit, I'll get defensive because what makes it bullshit?  The whole band is turned over but fuck ... things change, I accept it.  I ll say that the new members arent any pussy's either. Finck from NIN, Tommy from the Replacements ...  but, I'll also say that they have a very different sound with the new songs.  So when someone asks are the new songs better then the old songs?  Id say the new songs are awesome but have a completely different sound. 

i could`ve written that myself :hihi:


you know..... i was reading this thread, and i really wanted to say that.... i guess you were faster... i agree anyways. the only people that don`t count as critics are haters and people with prejudices., ie built their opinions before they even listened to certain songs or write reviews without having attended the gig ( the RAR review i read serisously pissed me off. i know that i`m a hardcore or however you call it, but 60000 cheering people are proof enough : ok:)

if you were into the old band and you love songs like scom and paradise city and you listened to them for the last 20 years, it`s impossible for you to prefer better or IRS. 

i listened to the illusions since i was 5 years old or so, but got into gnr 3+ years ago. maybe 4, but that?s it.  i bought appetite then and never even heard of paradise city or sweet child o`mine before.... believe it or not :hihi:   anyways....  i read about axl playing some gigs again in vegas and rio and downloaded "chinese democracy" and "rhiad"  on mygnr.com. i loved those songs from the first listen and downloaded maddy and the blues thereafter. THOSE SONGS are what made me a gnr fan and i guess i`m one of the few people on this board who can say that. 

just to make it clear: i listened to chinese democracy before i listened to welcome to the jungle :hihi:

prior to that i listened to nirvana, other rock bands and even hip hop.... so i guess i was pretty unbiased when i listened to the "new" songs :hihi:

now it`s like... i like the old band, but love the new one....  gnr were fantastic in the 80`s, they were still fantastic in the 90`s, but something was missing (or there was too much :hihi:)

i don`t think everything axl does is right, but he`s definitely doing a great job. i saw gnr live at rock am ring for the first time in my life and that gig really changed my thoughts on gnr and this board. the band and the crowd were 10 times better than i expected. i don`t give a shit about the negativity on this board anymore...  i made my own experiences and don`t have to rely on bootlegs or shitty reviews anymore :beer:

but to stay on topic, i listen to lots of music and there`s lots of great music out there. i think led zeppelin are better than 80% of gnr?s studio material by the way (excluding the new gnr songs....), so calling me biased or an axl nutswinger isn`t right....

any diehard became one at some point....  i listened to gnr and happened to love them. i also think most of that what they did is simply awesome... that doesn`t mean i`m unable to see the mistakes or whatever. i just like it, other people don`t : ok:

if i`d write a review of CD and think it`s great, then someone reads it and doesn`t like CD, is my review wrong or biased??

yeah, most die hard fans of GNR are pretty much not going to be good critics of the band...

good thread dude!!!

ye u?re right... we just can?t compare them... they are so different! oh and the band is different too, the musicians... anyway, back in the old days, it wasn?t just axl work to do such fantastic songs, it was the work of all the members back then... now axl is all alone with new band guys so of course, the songs have to be different!