Here Today... Gone To Hell!

A couple quotes from the last 2 shows got me thinking.....

June 4th, 2006 Milan, Italy @ Idroscalo (Gods of Metal Festival) - "you know, as if we could do up here whatever we pleased, but in fact, we can't"

June 7th, 2006 London, England @ Hammersmith Apollo Theatre - After playing Better, "That was off our last album"

Is the record company holding up the release of this CD for the Optimal Sales (ie the Christmas rush November) ? and by holding onto the album they are stopping GnR from playing new songs and "burying AFD" (as some people refer to it)?

I mean we know Axl reads these sites, so he must have something to say about all the setlist complaints....

I think the second quote was more of a joke...probably referring to the leaks as being the last album

The first one is more interesting...I understand your theory, but I rather think its Axl holding it up, not the record company who would probably put it out tomorrow if they could.

its a theory, but i fail to see it being true

i mean itis the most popular unreleased album anyway, it would shift loads

I think the rec comp (or axl) is waiting f?r the us tour, reducing the risk for the americans downloading the CD from us bad, bad people of europe who have had the buzz for longer. something like that...  :)

Axl, himself, during the Trunk interview said the sequencing of the 1st and 2nd albums weren't completed yet and songs were constantly swapping back and forth between the two.

I think that's evidence enough that, at this point anyway, it's not the label holding things up.

haha way to go pilferk you killed my thread, i hope you're happy :P

he also said that it might be out late fall and definately this year on radio stations....i'm of the opinion that it has been turned over to the label....in your experience Pilferk (or anybody) how long does a CD take to go from the mastering stage to the final product on shelves?

From what I've read and heard it so widely varies that it's hard to nail down any kind of "norm".  Mostly because labels set dates based on their wants, needs, wishes, etc...so if an album is done in, for example, June, but they wanna hold off on it til November as a Holiday release...they do.

The minimum amount of time is about 3 to 4 weeks, I'd say, from mastering to the shelf.  That includes replication, packaging, and distribution (and ignores things with longer lead times like possible advertising or whatever the label might want to do).  If you were really on a rush you might be able to do it just a bit quicker, but I don't think much unless everything went exactly perfect and everything (and I mean everything) was pre-set and ready to roll the minute the mastering process was done.

thanks pilferk....

see i also think there is alot more going on than we know (duh :hihi: ) and I'm sure Axl wants optimal sales too but I dunno, those two quotes on back to back shows are kinda odd IMO and i thought I'd see what y'all had to say about it :peace:

It's possible.  I mean....working out sequencing could certainly have been done (or is being done) while the band has been touring/performing.

We all know that, in the past, when the album is "done", Axl has let us know during shows....so it's not out of the realm of plausibility that he's dropping hints, or will eventually just outright tell us, during one of the Euro shows.  That's what he did in July of '91, so......

that's what i was thinking too Pilferk...coupled with the long ass trunk interview and the other interview he did when he unveiled the KROQ show as well as an article in the newest Guitar world....I think the Ball has begun rolling :smoking:

I remember Axl saying they wanted to bury appetite...but he was referring to the Illusions albums. And yea, that didnt work out as planned. Here's to you CD ya motherfucker you.

It's been no secret that Axl has largely been recording this album on his "own" timeline, therefore I see it impossible to predict how long the mastering process would take him... ;)

True enough.

That's why I gave a minimum from mastering to shelf (which doesn't include, FYI, the mastering itself), rather than any guess about how long THIS album will take, or how long THIS album will take to master.

I think people are reading into this WAY too much....

Axl also specifically said he has been recording "off and on" for ten years on the Eddie Trunk show-ie he works on the album sporadically. It is painfully obvious that he is in no hurry whatsoever to release it. Buddha, you are right, he did say he wanted to bury Afd but that was specifically meant in reference to UYI. It cracks me up when people take a 17 year old comment and try to say that it is meaningful to Chinese Democracy. Axl has obviously come to love AFD as evidenced by our night in and night out setlists. :hihi:

I think it's painfully obvious judging by the enthusiasm, and passion the band puts into the new songs live, that his bandmembers are very much in a hurry to have the album out there so they can play what they've been waiting all along to play... :-\

agree. ;) The late starts and the fact there is still no release date worries me. At what point do these guys give up? It may not be now or even 6 months from now, but I still worry cause I think they are a great band-completely on their own terms. :beer:

Well, if there touring with Axl, then it reaffirms they are fully under his pay-role, therefore I see no real reason to give up, if there slowly setting themselves up, financially for life.

I started asking myself why Richard or Tommy dont ask Axl to throw in some Double Talkin' Jive or something, when I remembered whether they were tight on rehearsal time or not, Axl more than likely has the last say in what songs will be played and when.

The Record Company has spent 13+ million dollars on this album, they are not holding it back what-so-ever.  Axl will release when he feels like it.

Don't say such scary things!!? :nervous:

Sadly, artists have little, if any, say in when an album is released.  This goes for all artists, Eminem and U2 are some recent bigger names that come to mind.  Eminem wanted a late September release, Interscope said no -November is when it is.  It's strictly a deal between the major retailers and the labels, and it all boils down to who is releasing what and how much $ is behind it for promotion from the label.  That's why I am hanging my hat on a Novemeber release date, (I like November 14th actually  : ok:)  and yes I do know some pretty important "high on the food chain" retail people.  I see 0% chance for September, which means the US tour will indeed start prior to the album being released.

I wonder if the tour will be called "Chinese Democracy World Tour"?  That will be the interesting thing to come out of the US fall tour.  This European tour is all about one thing....(In my best Randy Moss voice).."Straight up cash money homie"

maybe.
I think he said that mainly because some fans think as if Axl is almighty and he can do anything he wants and blame him for anything.
like "he always changes his mind!" ....whenever some rumour doesn't come true.

And it is reported that there was a banner saying 'Axl is GOD' @ the milan venue.

There needs to be a single out there to ramp up to the US tour. Axl made the mistake in 2002 by scheduling arena shows with no album support or promotion. Axl will find it difficult to support a tour again without new material to support: a single by September would do the job.

Bottom line is why would they start touring? Why did 4 songs all a sudden leak. Shit adds up no news to any of you. We should and will have something this year.  fingers X  :P

GNR can't have a sucessful US tour without a single or album IMO. How much promotion does this album need? It don't need anything it will be all over the place once a release date comes from Axl and management. People who don't care or know anything about it will know right away. Its not up to Axl to say when to put it out its the record company who knows whats going on behind closed doors now with it. Guitar World coming out with an issue now? The making of CD. Stuff is flying around this year more than anytime. Hopefully it all works out.

I don't think Geffen would hold up an album like this, that will easily sell tons and tons of copies making them tons of money. Got to agree that once this is released, hopefully this fall, that Geffen will bring in big bucks from this album.

IMO, Axl wants to get this tour done, go back and put some finishing touches on it, maybe re-record some stuff (possibly with Bumblefoot?), and then release it this fall/winter. I'm hoping for a single around September, maybe with a music video (could be partially what the camera crew is at each show for, maybe throw clips together of a song from some concerts to make a kickass music video). I'd love to see a Better music video, because I just think that has a huge chance to go over big with the public when it's finally released.

Along with that, I'm hoping for a October/November/December release, followed by a tour. That would be great, them getting back from Europe, taking some time off, finish up the album, start out fresh on a US leg of the tour. Hopefully they hit the NYC area so I can go to my second GNR concert!!

Largely true, but I wanted to comment on 2 things.

First, a November release would actually mean there would likely be a single in September.  So they wouldn't be touring the US with nothing, at least.  And the PROMISE of a new album, at least, along with a new single, would probably bolster the first 1/2 of the tour (I'm assuming the tour follows closely the set up of the failed '02 tour).

Second, on the Euro tour being a cash grab....I disagree.  I don't think it's totally about that.  Probably in part.  But I also think it's about 2 other things.  First, it's about getting the bands name back in the public eye, getting some press, and ensuring that people know GnR are active and prepping them to "recieve" news about the new album.  Second, I think it's about rehersing and gelling as a band, so that when the US leg of the tour kicks of, (hopefully) with new material to support it (single and then album), they're already firing on all cylinders.

Thats correct, but you got to remember that GnR arent most bands. I dont say this just from a raging fans perspective (even though I am one) because think about it - all these years, all this money and nothing; the band is on a pretty loose leash.

I can agree pretty much with eveerything you said here Pilferk : ok:


i think Geffen cut off funding years ago...i don't think they will sink anymore into it until it's out and has sold a 'few' copies (to put it lightly :hihi: ) also a reason, IMO, to wait until Christmas rush....people make impulse buys at that time so the sales will be skewed slightly by the mad rush to buy something and leave the store ASAFP....ultimately generating a bigger initial sale of the disk and thus more $$$ for everyone involved

If November is THE month for CD I'd expect a big promotional push to maximise christams sales, if there were TV adverts for GH then I would expect some sort of advert for CD.

As for the euro tour being a cash grab I agree with Pilferk getting the GNR name back in the press and back into music buyers minds a couple of months in advance to a cd release doesn't seem a bad idea at all. Besides they won't be making much money with all the curfew breaking charges they're having to pay  :hihi:

Pilferk is right for the most part. However, until I get a release date for the album, I am simply going to be suspicious of Axl's motives. The 2002 tour was no different than what is going on now.   :(

The posts I've read so far about the PR seem to be correct. In all honesty as soon as they (GNR together with the record company) do a press release saying the date of the album it will be everywhere. And by everywhere I mean all news outlets from Billboard to MTV to CNN and so on. We already went over the CNN thing and everyone who thought I was wrong was proven incorrect by the leaks so lets not do that again.  : ok:

Im sure that the press release will have all the details we need to know including the name of the first single as well as the date it will be released to rock radio. I would assume that they will also include the confirmed dates for the North American tour at that time with a teaser about more dates to follow.

I don't believe the record company is so much holding the band back from anything as helping along the process. There were 30 songs on UYI and the band played about half (or a little less then that) of them before the records actually came out. After the records came out, they actually ended up dropping alot of the songs they played before it's release from the setlist.

At this point (assuming CD is about 13 tracks) we've heard about the same percentage of tunes from it before it's release. I'm sure the record company is on board with that plan.

In 02 Axl was showing certain numbers on his jerseys. now, no more.

I read it as an indication that the release is fixed. :yes:

they only played 6 euro/japan/china shows in 2002....they played the same amount of warmup dates in NYC and twice that in Europe already :hihi:

and there just seems to be more excitement all around this time....between 4 and 6 'new' songs a night, guest appearances...this is a "REAL" tour....2002 was a joke from the get go they just weren't ready...

This time i think it's for real : ok:

Key word..."you think". Factual reality...no release date set...still only general time frames given...no indication that the album is even done.

ps Tank, you're a lunatic. ;D

ps No, Barney, I'm just a maniac. :-*

And neemo I agree about this tour.
But 02 tour wasn't a joke either. They must have suffered serious damage. :-X

Most certainly the Christmas rush is a massive time for consumers. Its also a time of rushed products aiming to capitalise on it (anyone who likes videogames will probably remember the unfinishable Ultima 9) and it would make perfect sense to release it then.

But, Axl doesnt strike me as someone too interested in business matters and good sales. Nor does he need to be either considering hes got both his name and the GnR name behind him. Remember last week there was a thread about a fake torrent of Chinese Democracy going #1 on the torrents? People want this album and itll sell like crack in LA no matter what time of year.

Well i mean as far as exposure....they played china, japan, belgium, England, USA and Canada....thats it for the "2002 World Tour"

Already in 2006 they played USA, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Germany, Italy, England and Ireland tonight thats more countires than they played in all of 2002 ?in less than a month :o with 20 total countries scheduled so far on this tour...


well i agree with you in the fact that it'll sell hot whenever....but IMO it'll be hotter during XMAS shopping season...I think you are wrong about axl caring about buisiness....why fight to keep the GnR name if he wasn't :P

I think the first quote may refer to the setlist - in that like maybe he'd like to get up and play just new stuff or do covers or something else but like theres expectations that he has to play a certain amount of the old songs. I think he said something similar in 2001 at rio but I could be wrong.

As to the second quote...was that show filmed? Maybe the comment was for a DVD - so that it will go nicely with CD when its out? Or then again - could be a joke - or could just be a statement of fact - like better is on CD and that was the most recent album the band has recorded (even if its not finsihed)

hmm good observation...but the DVD will show a "Performed on: blah blah blah" and as I understand, every show is being filmed for footage :-\ so I don't think that is the case...but who knows :hihi:

Dont know whether that was said at RiR2001, but the Press Release to compliment the 02 tour basically said that - something along the lines that they wanted to familiarise the new band with the world through the old stuff. I think thats exactly what hes getting at in that quote. Also, maybe hes getting at that he's scared to show off the new stuff with CD so seemingly close, which is understandable (if excruciating).

I think the second quote is simply a joke - lately Axl has a self deprecating sense of humour on stage.

 :hihi: :hihi:


Because this is nothing but Guns N' Roses which by any other name would smell Guns n' Roses ?
IMO the name Axl Rose is big enough.

to alot of people there is no Gnr without Slash...and yes Axl's name is big enough.....but, ppbebe those comments are each a whole new can of worms that are best left unopened :nervous:

Ooops, what I'm trying say is that his name alone would sell enough but he's not into solo.
He loves the band.

I hope I put a lid on the can.