Here Today... Gone To Hell!

By TIM MOLLOY, Associated Press Writer Mon May 29, 2:06 PM ET

LOS ANGELES - Tempers are rising along with gas prices. Gas stations across the country report that drivers are taking out their gas rage against big oil by yelling at clerks and cashiers and sometimes driving off without paying.

"Everyone is suffering at the same time," said Sam Shirazie, a clerk at a Chevron station east of downtown Los Angeles. "If I could help to reduce that pain, I would."

No detailed statistics are kept on incidents of gas rage. But the National Association of Convenience Stores said anecdotal evidence indicates they have increased since prices began climbing in February.

Employees of Fleming Corp., which operates 14 gas stations in Kansas and Missouri, have heard everything from "just a mumble-grumble kind of thing to a cheap shot or blaming the clerk for world oil prices," owner Ed Roitz said.

Division manager Ron Davis hears complaints firsthand.

"Out of all our customers, probably 1 percent does the loudest squealing," he said. "I don't want to repeat some of it. They'll talk about the blankety-blank oil companies."

The convenience stores association advises store owners to ensure that employees understand the costs associated with gas, and encourages them to explain to customers that in some cases they aren't making any profits despite the soaring price of fuel. Retailers make about two-thirds of their profits from items inside the store, he said.

But, "don't dismiss customer complaints because we're in the customer service business, and anytime you don't address customer complaints they'll go somewhere else," association spokesman Jeff Lenard said.

Steve Grosse is trying humor to defuse tempers. At his Shell station in Manhattan Beach, he replaced the price of gas with the words "arm," "leg" and "first born."

In Los Angeles, Chevron station co-owner Anthony Sinai has started giving free sodas to customers who pump $20 worth of gas. He wants to avoid a repeat of an incident last year when an upset customer threw a cup of coffee at a female clerk and knocked over display items.

Consumers might finally be getting at least a temporary break at the pump. The latest figures released May 21 by the Lundberg Survey indicate the nationwide average price of self-serve regular fell about 1.45 cents in the previous two weeks to $2.93 a gallon ? the first dip since the Feb. 24 price of $2.24 began to climb.

Convenience stores that sell gas are responsible for three-quarters of all gas sales in the United States, Lenard said. But only 3 percent of those stations are owned by oil companies.

Sinai said most of his steady customers understand that he makes just a few cents per gallon and that gas prices are controlled by market forces far beyond his control.

"When I explain that to people they're just totally surprised because they expect us to make a lot more money," he said.

Police in Los Angeles and San Diego ? the city with the highest gas prices in the nation ? haven't noticed any violent trends toward gas station workers. But there have been gas-related crimes around the nation.

In Austin, Texas, a man was arrested this month for investigation of stealing hundreds of gallons of fuel from underground tanks while posing as a parking lot cleaner. He sold the gas from his driveway, police said.

In Fond du Lac, Wis., the number of reported cases of customers driving off without paying for gas doubled to 100 in the first four months of this year compared to the first four months of 2005, police Maj. Kevin Lemke said.

"We've talked to a lot of the owners that are having problems and made some suggestions like maybe they need to start thinking about pre-pay," Lemke said, "but in a small community like Fond du Lac they don't want to inconvenience even their good customers because of a few bad customers."

Retailers in other areas have had the same problem with pre-pay, the convenience store association said.

Gasoline theft cost the industry an estimated $237 million in 2004, the most recent year for which statistics are available, according to the group. Some retailers have installed security cameras, increased employee monitoring of pumps and advised workers to greet customers to take away their feeling of anonymity.

An incident last August prompted gasoline industry groups to tell workers not to risk lives by trying to stop drive-offs.

In Fort Payne, Ala., station owner Husain "Tony" Caddi, 54, was killed while grabbing the vehicle of a man trying to drive away without paying for $52 worth of gas.

The driver, Alvin Dwight Benefield, 42, pleaded guilty to manslaughter and was sentenced to five years in prison.

People in America need to STOP driving gas guzzlers period.

How high will it go before they change?

What do you think?

Americans pay way, way less than everyone else in the world. Quit yer bitching.

what do you consider a "gas guzzler" - anything below...

25 mpg? 20 mpg? 15 mpg?

just curious.

What do you consider a gas guzzler?

I hear that argument and agree, but not in this thread.

When market price increases roughly 40 percent in a short period it is going to have a negative economic effect on people. So your comparison does not figure into this discussion.

Anything under 15 in the city and 32 on the highway.

jesus they need to come to England we pay the equivilent of $7 per gallon (?0.94 per litre)

and a gas guzzler is less then 20mpg in my eyes

yeah, but they have to drive a lot more than people in other countries-US is a vast country.

from what i heard nowadays in the US its cheaper to send yourself to another city than drive there :rofl:

fucking gas is crazy, pisses me off

40 dollars to fill the tank with 87... Shit is about 3.30 a gallon... Fucking bullshit..

My dad's car runs on 93, forget that price :rant:

i agree with 15 in the city. but 32 doesn't coincide with it. any car that gets 15 in the city is only gonna get about 20-25 on the highway. and there's alot of midsize cars that only get about 25-30 on the highway. so i think 32 is high.

A big part of the problem is that the price went up so suddenly. The price has almost doubled in 2 years time, and that happened right after the SUV boom. Now all the car manufacturers are trying to make gas friendly cars, but by the time everybody switches to them it'll be far too late. Most people don't buy a car every 2 years so they'll be stuck with their SUV or whatever for the next few years at least, unless they trade it in and take on even more debt because they're most likely upside down on their payment.

Raven

I read an article today that said people are still buying SUVs over smaller cars and hybrids.

if you have kids, a minivan or SUV is so convenient. and for alot of people it's worth the extra $$. you're only talking about an extra $5 - $10 per week. you barely even notice it.

 

We survived for years without them.

A 4 cylinder subaru 4x4 station wagon would work just as well and hauls ass on top of it.

everyone and their mother has one, like every woman needs a denali or escalade ,quite sickening really....

Bring back the station wagon so I can see down the street corner for on coming traffic :hihi:

that's cool. i hope you have one and i hope you enjoy it. i could care less if a vehicle "hauls ass" or not (whatever that means).

never did i say we couldn't survive without them.

but we pay for conveniences every day. and for alot of people, this is a convenience well worth paying for. there's absolutely no comparison between a wagon and a minivan. minivans have twice the storage capacity. and SUVs have about 50% more.

and wagons aren't even THAT much better on gas. so the difference in cost is minimal. and many active families are happy to pay the small extra cost for a major convenience.

thing I noticed about suvs are people think they are in a tank like tehy are bosses of the road ,that shit pisses me off..

I have a 2002 taurus two kids, I love it .. That's just me though, seems like everyone has an suv wether needed or not..

but don't you think it's unfair to make a blanket stereotypical comment about SUV drivers?

i don't understand the anger towards SUV drivers. it's not the gas thing, cause no one ever mentions minivans, and minivans get very similiar gas mileage.

no one truly NEEDS an SUV. but many people are willing to pay for the conveniences it offers. and i have no idea why that pisses people off so much.

Not all drivers, just seems like the suv is the new cell phone or something, it's like in style.. I don't care about how much gas it takes in or whatever.. if someone has a family then good with an suv..

My 88' 1/2 Ford Escort gets about 34 miles to the gallon on the highway.

Driving a SUV in the city is the biggest waste of gasoline period.

I don't own one. But my point is that you can have a sporty car (station wagon), that is 4 wheel drive , reliable and good on gas that get s good MPG NOW. The SUV is the ultimate waste of gas and only creates more demand/waste which adds to driving the price of gas up. It also pollutes twice as much and is dangerous to other drivers. Contrary to urban myth it is not a safer vehicle either.

Subaru Wagon would wallop an SUV on gas to doubt about it.

I have two kids, two dogs, and pile it all in either one of our sedans. I have carried ladders on top, sheetrock on top, tile, paint, chlorine, boxes of nails, you name it, and it has been just fine. I have traveled in snow, up mountains, across the country and it was fine.


The majority of people who drive these SUVs do not need them. I have lost count of how many times I see one driver in these things. STOOPID, wasteful, unnecessary, and arrogant.

you totally ignored my points. people like cargo space. and are willing to pay for it. you drive a sedan......do you NEED a sedan? no. why not drive a tiny little toyota that gets 40 mpg?

i'll tell you why. convenience. whether you admit it or not. the added space of a sedan is convenient for you and your family. so to call others "stoopid" and "arrogant" an even bigger car is hypocritical.

you have a problem with one driver in a SUV??? i'm sure you realize that's not a very intelligent comment.

are owners of minivans arrogant?

and check the stats....suburu wagons are not necessarily better on gas than SUVs. 

One of my cars is a Camry that gets awesome MPG.

Convenience is one thing, but the majority of people who drive these things never need the four wheel drive, or the "convenient" space. Most people drive them as a status symbol-period. You can try to sell me on all the same crap everybody else does, but I don't buy it. There was a great article interviewing some of the big car manufactures who laughed at the people who claimed the "needed" these big shit boxes. They realized people would buy whatever they were told to buy, and they were laughing all the way to the bank. Laughing at the people that gave them that huge profit margin.

Yes, I do have a problem with SUV drivers: They pollute twice as much, they are more dangerous to other drivers, they are gas hogs, and the majority of people do not need them. To me, this is arrogant behavior.

Ford Explorer 8 cylinder 4x4 according to specs gets 14/18 mpg driving.

Subaru 4 cylinder 4x4 gets 22/28 mpg.

Mazda 5 Minivan gets 22/28 mpg

Car and driver said this about minivans:

Car and Driver magazine say that minivans are better choices than SUVs for many families, with roomier interiors and better fuel economy. Plus, minivans are much less prone to rollover accidents that plague some SUVs. According to the U.S. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, minivans are ten times safer than SUVs in a crash, due in part to their lower centers of gravity.

you continue to make blanket, stereotypical comments about SUV owners, and you don't even realize how small-minded that is. so sad.

you conveniently picked the worst SUV for gas mileage. nice work. but interesting - it's an 8 MPG difference. and you drive a camry, which only gets 22 MPG in the city. yet there's plenty of sedans (corolla, civic) that get 30 MPG in the city. an 8 MPG improvement over your camry.

conclusion: you're a fraud. if you truly believed the shit you throw out there, you'd buy the most efficient car.

so what's your reply to the corolla owners (like myself), who accuse you of being a "gas hog", "dangerous", "arrogant", and polluting twice as much????? 

I picked a mid level SUV. I could have picked a much larger one, hell I could have picked a hummer. Even if I stuck by your unrealistic 8 mpg "difference" the amount added up per tank/per week/month/year would be rather significant.

I bought the most efficient car for the life I live. I could have bought more, but the Camry suites me just fine thanks.

My reply to you? You are without merit. It gets great MPG, puts out low emissions, is one of the safest sedans on the market, and is a conservative family car. Light years away from the shitboxes called SUVs and the suckers who drive them.

but you're a fraud. if you truly cared about the shit you talk about, you would drive a smaller car. one that gets 8-10 MPG better than your camry. you could drive a car that gets 32 MPG in the city. but you snub your nose at those small cars and drive a larger car that only gets 22 -24 MPG. why the larger car???

then you criticize people for driving vehicles with MPG similiar to your camry!! (honda cr-v midsize SUV gets the SAME city MPG as the camry). and you don't see the hypocricy in that?

and apparantly you're ok with minivans?? it just doesn't make any sense. it seems like YOU have been brainwashed to believe that all SUV drivers are arrogant, republican, big business, a-holes. but in reality, SUVs just fit the lifestyle of alot of working class families that are on the go all the time. 

and reading your posts over the years, i thought you were someone that was against stereotypes.   

Some people need a larger car.  I would much rather be driving my little MR2 that I had pre kids, but that just doesn't work for me any longer.  Both of my sons play hockey which require carrying LARGE hockey bags and sticks - they have to fit in the vehicle along with the passengers!

My Subaru Forester gets about 28 MPG (mostly highway time....I live 60 miles from work, and work in a place where "weather" is not a viable option to take the day off...be the snow 2 inches or 2 feet).?

As SLC says, there ARE fuel efficient AWD SUV options out there, with good passenger capacity.

actually pilferk, you're making my point. i agree, there's lots of great options when purchasing a SUV.

i disagree with PUNK when he says the following:

"Yes, I do have a problem with SUV drivers: They pollute twice as much, they are more dangerous to other drivers, they are gas hogs, and the majority of people do not need them. To me, this is arrogant behavior."

and based on your post, i think you would disagree with this statement as well.

I wasn't disagreeing with either of you, actually.  Just adding a bit of info.....

I don't disagree with SLC's sentiment, either.  Perhaps at the broadness of the assertion (there are fuel efficient SUV's out there...the Forester, the Escape Hybrid, and others), but I do agree with the point that there are many out there who drive fuel guzzlers (and not just SUV's....) for no real good reason. And that those that do so should, at least, have it pointed out to them that they are one of many reasons WHY fuel prices are so high and fuel is becoming more scarce.

 In addition there are a good number of the SUV's out there that DO pollute more than they should (witness the fact some manufacturers HAVE produced low emission SUV's so something can be done about it), aren't safe for other drivers (but that's a matter for the govt safety board to address...until they mandate standard bumper guidelines...nobody is going to change), and some ARE gas hogs (getting as little as 10 to 15 mpg HIGHWAY!).  Those SUV's, and their manufacturers, should be taken to task and, to some extent, their customers SHOULD be, at least, advised of what they're doing to the economy and the environment,.

But the fact is...we're a capitalistic society.  And nothing I say (or SLC says, or you say) is going to make anyone want to downsize their penis extention or societal status symbol strictly on our say so.  And as long as their wallets can pay the bills...they're going to flip the bird to anyone suggesting they should.  Until it becomes chic (or legislated) to care about all that stuff, they won't.  And manufacturers aren't going to change until demand for their product drops off.  The American Way working as intended...

So, in essence...the discussion raging around us about to SUV or not to SUV isn't going to get us very far.

I was watching "Last Comic Standing" last night and heard the funniest (and pertinent) joke.? It went something like this:

"Ladies, it's your fault gas prices are so high.? Yup, it's true.? You know why?? Because you don't have sex with people who ride busses.? Yup, I know.? I ride the bus, and I never get laid.? You can't get laid if you ride the bus, or even if you ride a Schwinn.?If you have the stink of public transportation on you, girls just lock their knees together. The ladies just won't give it up for you...as soon as they see that bus pass, they're gone.

If you ladies would just start having sex only with? guys who ride the bus, you'd solve the world's fuel problems over night.? Just ask to see a bus pas before you pull up your skirt and drop your panties.? 'Cause if you have sex with the guys riding the bus, more guys will ride the bus.? That's more people in a single vehicle.? That means less gas gets used.? That means we BUY less gas.? And that means demand for oil goes down.? And once the demand for oil goes down, what happens?? That's right, the price goes down.? So, ladies, next time you're standing at the gas pumps bitching about paying 2.99 for a gallon of regular...remeber, it's all your fault."

I laughed my ass off.....It's funny because it's true.

yeah, I did some calculating with dollars and gallons and found out that gas costs $6.50 per gallon here in Norway. stop bitching Americans! ;D

BUT you also have a much larger, more convinient, and more developed public transportation system (largely paid for by the increased petrol taxes you pay)? than we have.? You also have much less square mileage to "cover" in crossing your entire country.? AND that higher gas price buys you other govt funded goods and services that we DON'T get (like health care, etc).? And, unless I'm mistaken, you have not seen an approximate 75% to 85% (or more) raise in your gasoline costs over the past 18 to 24 months, with no commesurate cost of living increase in your pay.

Hell, you give me free GOOD health care, free (or greatly reduced cost) exemplary university education for my kids, free (or reduced cost, anyway) GOOD public transportation, GOOD govt funded retirement benefits, and all the other government benefits you get from paying that higher gas price and I'll gladly pay 6 bucks a gallon, too.? I'd make it all back in just my insurance premiums and future tuition costs.

I've gone from spending about 35 dollars a week in fuel costs to approximately 70 dollars a week in fuel costs.? And I'm travelling no more than I was previously, in the same vehicle, and my average mpg is pretty much the same as always..? Do the math.? That's $140 a month more I'm paying for gas.? That, to me, is a pretty sizeable change to a single wage earning family of 4 (soon to be 5), dontcha think?

that's hilarious.

my point is that i hate when people ASSUME that an SUV driver is in it for "status".

obviously, in some cases it is true. but in many cases, it is not.

i drive an SUV. and i hate cars. our second car is a corolla which i plan on keeping until it dies. and i usually drive my beat up 1990 plymouth acclaim.

but when i take trips with the family down the shore, or pull a trailor up the mountains, the SUV comes in handy. i wish the corolla could meet those needs, but unfortunately it cannot. (i hate sending that damn monthly car bill!) ?

what the hell are you talking about? where I live, there's 1 bus that leaves here in the morning, and returns in the afternoon. if people that work would take it, they would be late for work, then have to leave early to catch the bus home. it's mostly for schoolkids. so people like me needs a car...thank God Im moving away from this country soon ;D
public transportation is pretty good in the cities here though, but it is in America too!

if you look at Norway from one end to the other, south-west to north-east, it's quite a stretch to drive! but anyway, who does that?
most people around here lives quite a bit away from where they work, me, about 12-13 miles. people live scattered around the mountains and fjords here so there's always some travelling involved when you're going places.

other than having health care provided for here, there really is not much difference from America...well except, it's not just the gas that costs more, everything else does too.
last year, I payed 36% taxes of my $31000 income.
THIS country sucks people! I'd rather live in America.

Again, I'm not sure you can say "in many cases, it is not".

There's not statistics that show one way or the other, but given the fact that SUV sales outpace every other vehicle, and you can't really come up with reasonable statistics that show "most" of those sales are need based (as in, in a climate that would require 4WD/AWD...you can garner storage space with extended cab pickups and minivans), I think it's tough to assign a majority in either direction.

I think all we can reasonablely say is that sometimes there is a need, and sometimes there isn't. ?I don't think we can say one side has "more" than the other.

not saying one side has more. don't read too much into my choice of words ("some" and "many").

obviously, my statement is true......"in many cases, it is not". (not clear why you disagree with that statement.)

and therefore my main point is valid - i.e. it's unfair to assume most SUV drivers are in it for status, since as you point out, it's tough to assign a majority either way.

Public transport in America is a pale imitation of the Euro and Scandavanian countries systems. ?Trust me. ?There are some exceptions, in the states (and NYC and LA are not one of them), but by and large our public transportation sucks. ?It's old, it's not efficient, it's not reliable, it's not clean, it's not free...it's not a lot of things.

The point about country size is that, by comparison, you have less ground to cover, in general, and less chance to leave your public transportation system in order to travel to and from work. Norway is just a bit bigger than New Mexco, but 70% of the land is not really populated. ?Only about 39000 square miles is actually in active use, with a total population of about 4.6 million (about 1/2 the population of NYC). ?Your population centers typically ARE around the cities (17% in Oslo, alone..30% total if you include Bergen, Stavengar, and Trondheim), and most of your population, in general, has access to a reliable, and good, public transportation system. ?Because the way the contry is configured, you don't HAVE to travel very far, for the average citizen.

12 -13 miles? ?That's considered a short commute by US standards in most parts of the country. I think the average is 20 to 25.

Norway provides a large package of governemnt sponsored programs and "benefits" that the US does not, at the cost of the govt, provide. ?All I'm saying is, when comparing your gas price to that in the US..make sure you subtract that taxes that pay for all those benefits that we DON'T get.

Oh, and for the record, I'd rather live in the States, as well.

Sorry, but when I see SUVs down here in Fla that are AWD and completely loaded with 5.6 engines.........

Always one woman with a cell phone in her hand.

Gimmie a break........

heres a table for you ok yes we havent seen the increase you have but we still have an increase non the less

http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/petrolprices.html

and to let you know our public transport system isnt that brilliant and its too expensive as well my typical monthly fuel bill is over $500 for about 1500 miles of driving

Can you break down how much of that is govt taxes and how much is actual cost?

So you've seen about 13% increase since 2004? Including tax increases (if any)?

I could live with that.

And using your math of $500 per 1500 miles driven....that's 3 bucks a mile...that seems a bit outta whack looking at your prices.  What are you getting for gas mileage?

fuck me i dont do politics all i know is petrol is a lot of money here and its half the price in the US

mpg is around 20ish it takes ?45 to fill my tank and i get 250 miles to it

If the place i lived had a nice metro like Japan or NY or Singapore i would never drive.  Id just buy my ticket throw in an ipod and relax... I hated driving. I hate gas prices so fucking high. I hate traffic, i hate road rage, i hate car insurance and maint.

Fuck Gas prices. Soon if it gets higher im just gonna buy a bike.

See, that's my point.

It might not actually BE twice the price.  You're paying an additional premium, tacked on by your government, that has nothing to do with the actual price of the fuel, itself.  And you recieve benefits for paying that premium..benefits we don't get.

So, when comparing, at least for me, I'd like to see an apples to apples comparison...that is, the price sans any taxes levied on it.  It makes the comparison a bit more "real".

I agree.

Again, to restate our fuel prices have surged around 40 percent in the last year. It is crunching some people rather hard. So that is another reason you hear Americans "complaining"

yeah man I get what you're saying. but as far as public transportation goes, it sucks this part of the country (the northern half). maybe with the exception of Troms?, I lived there for a year and you could catch a bus to anywhere around the town pretty much whenever you wanted.

even though there is only 39000 square miles actively in use, we still have to travel between those places...and public transportation is not free here, quite the contrary! ;D

and I get you guys have had a huge increase in the gas prices, but Norway has gone through that as well, only that was long ago..in like the early 80s maybe.
and only since last year, the gas prices has gone up with about $0.85 (85 cents?) per gallon.
the roads here are pretty horrible as well, highways are allright, but in cities/towns and around they are in a terrible state.
Sweden is a much poorer country than Norway, yet they seem to find money to keep everything there in very acceptable standards. for example, the roads there are like heaven compared to here.

and the people who are accessible to public transportation here are basically the same as in the US, people who live in, or close to cities. but yes, the p. transportation is in very good standards.

also remember, we pay a helluva lots of taxes on everything else as well, not just the gas. I have yet to figure out where all that money is going to myself, cos the "benefits" here are far from as good as they're supposed to be.

but I know what you mean man, you have lotsa family in Norway so you know a lot about what it's like here. : ok:
the main reason I would rather live in America though, is the weather ;D

Yeah, the winters over there (and by "winter", I mean more than 1/2 the year.  :hihi: ) are pretty brutal, especially up where you are in the North.  Down around Oslo it's not quite so bad (which is where my family is) but still....I'd never be able to do it.  I like snow as much as any New Englander does (which means we have a love/hate relationship), but could never hack Norway.

haha, yeah they are pretty damn mean around here!
the worst 3-4 months in the winter, we only have a couple of hours of daylight a day here as well...it's very depressing and one of the biggest reasons Im moving away from here! ;D
but on the other side, it's light outside 24/7 these days :hihi:

Honestly, I'm not sure which would be worse...not really seeing the sun for 3 or 4 months...or seeing the sun for 3 to 4 months straight.  That would SERIOUSLY fuck with my sleeping habits.....

I can't remember exact figures but about 75% of the price of petrol (gas) is taken by the Government. The price before this isn't actually too bad (well compared to what we pay anyway). The price round here is 98.9 p for diesel a litre, which is about $7.5 a gallon.

We don't really see any of these 'benefits' for the stupidly high price and our (shoddy) health service is funded from other taxes. All it means is that to move things around i.e. from food to clothes to everything, costs a lot of money so we pay a lot more for everything. When I went to America last year, you could buy everything for the same number of dollars as pounds. So something for $199 will cost ?199 in England. I know which I'd rather have.

However, hopefully Americans will now realise that 5 litre cars that do 15 miles to the gallon are not a good idea.

oh yeah it can be confusing for sure! ;D
but I love this time of year, you just gotta make sure to have really thick, dark curtains ;D
I have blinds and black thick curtains, that makes it just about dark enough to sleep.
the sun is going past my bedroom window all night.
but the cool thing is that at night, the sun is so far away that you can look directly at it without hurting your eyes. it makes a really nice atmosphere if you're a night person like me!

See, that's the thing:

With us, it will vary by state because each state levies it's own per gallon gas tax.
For me, in CT, it's approx 25 cents per gallon.

The Federal gas tax is the same in every state, and is 18.5 cents per gallon.?

Our total tax on gas is only 43.5 cents per gallon in CT (and that's fixed...it doesn't change as the price goes up).

Average price per gallon is about 3.09 right now, here in CT.

The taxes are only about 14% of the total price.

Which means our "actual price" is about $2.65.

If you take the numbers above at 4.05 pounds per gallon, that works out to ABOUT $7.50 a gallon, US (using xe.com's current conversion).

Assuming your 75% number is correct, that would put you at an actual cost of about $1.88 per gallon.

See the difference?

sometimes if you buy more expensive gas (93 octane), it's cheaper on a per mile basis.

and you can save $$ by going to better gas stations. aamaco (or BP) and shell work best for me.

i'm sure this is common knowledge to people that know about cars, but just thought i'd mention.

Sometimes, yes...if your engine is knocking.? If not, higher octane fuel really does nothing for you.

Always run the fuel your manufacturer tells you to run, unless you've tinkered with the engine (and thus, know the octane rating is no longer appropriate) or know the engine in knocking.

Edit: Found a good explanation of octane with pertinent information, so you don't have to take my word for it:

http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?id=105

What's the benefit of higher octane fuel?

Higher octane fuel has only one beneficial feature - it allows an engine to run at higher temperatures with more advanced ignition timing under higher levels of compression witout detonating / knocking. Higher octane fuel does NOT have more potential energy and will not make an engine perform better unless that engine is knocking. On modern engines with knock sensors, higher octane fuel may make the engine run better if the knock sensors are retarding the ignition timing, which hinders performance. High octane fuel does not burn cleaner, it does not clean your engine, it does not increase horsepower or torque (unless you are experiencing knock), it does not smell better, it does not increase fuel economy (unless you are experiencing knock) and is not better for the environment. If you buy higher octane fuels for any of the above reasons, STOP!"

"When should I switch to a higher octane fuel?

First off, never run lower octane fuel than is recommended by the vehicle's manufacturer. If the vehicle manufacturer recommends 89 octane gasoline, this means that the engine has been tuned to perform optimally without detonation on 89 octane fuel. Once you've done some modifications to your engine, the manufacturer's recommended gasoline may no longer suffice. Obviously, if you can hear detonation inside your engine in the form of pinging or "knocking", try a higher octane fuel. You will also need to run a premium grade fuel (91+ octane) if you have a supercharger, turbocharger, or if you have an ignition programmer that advances your ignition timing. "

I know where you are coming from, but it makes most English people all the more annoyed that we pay nearly 3 times as much at the pumps as Americans!

So in America, most people are annoyed at the cost of the gas before tax and not the tax added? We are in totally the oposite situation here!

Yup.

Trying to go cheap on gas can end up costing you on the backend sometimes.

Most cars today have knock sensors.

If you put low octane in your car (assuming it requires mid grade and up) to "save" money, the knock sensor will retard the timing. Thus lowering your MPG.

Pretty much...because it's not the taxes that are going up, it's the "before tax" cost. ?The flat rate taxes are pretty reasonable, and have been static for quite awhile in most states.

I know in '04, I was paying about $1.59 to $1.79 a gallon (including the 43 cent tax). ?I'm now paying about 3.09, and that's down from a high of about $3.29 (excluding right after Katrina when it hit about $3.49 for supply reasons), about 2 or 3 weeks ago.

Right.  And on the flip side, using MORE octane than the manufacturer recommends, UNLESS you have a knock (or are trying to get around your knock sensors), won't do you any good at all.  It's just a waste of money.

gotcha.

do you know what would cause better gas mileage at certain gas stations?

i've tried it and i do get slightly better MPG when i go to BP compared to the no name gas station. my sample size isn't that large, but i work with accountants (calling these guys "anal" is the understatement of the year) and they track their mileage in a spreadsheet. they have two years worth of data, and they get $0.01 better per mile when they go to BP or shell.

the common belief is that the gas is slightly watered down. but i have never heard any evidence to support that.

Could be a HUGE number of things.

Refining method, for one.? Additives and % of those additives for another.? It could also be as simple as temperature when gas is pumped (which, for a small sample would make almost no difference, but over a large sample like you're suggesting might make a bigger difference) or underground tank cleanliness and condensation at the station itself (all underground tanks have condensation and some water in the bottom of the tanks...in CT you're actually required to take daily measurements and it has to be within a certain tolerance level...but the actual measurement varies literally from day to day).? Those are just a very small sample of the literally 100's of reasons why you might see a difference.? Without a lot more data (including forumlation, weather, humidity levels, tank size,depth, and maintenance, etc) it would be impossible to say for sure.

Also best to get gas from a busy station, not a slow one............

Yup, true.  Because that tank turnover will cut down on condensation and settlement of any tank sediment.  Better for both your mpg and your engine. :)

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