Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Ive been a GNR fan for 20 years, never seen them live but I have followed GNR for the best part of my life. Ive been reading this site since it started. After watching the Lisbon show on the internet I am very skeptical about attending my first GNR show. I have convinced the majority of my mates to go who are also GNR (ex GNR - cos thats all they can go by) fans and I am starting to worry that this is going to be shit.

I am worried that Axl is going in the wrong direction with this band and returning to the SOAP Opera days of GNR. Most people became guns fans because the of pure Rockin n Roll substance they had between 87 - 91.
-- Out of control
-- Rock n Roll
-- Unreal musicians
-- Sounded great
-- Axl tore up the stage. Non stop movement in his own unique way.
-- Basically Axl was the best front man in the world, Slash the best (Iconic) guitarist, Izzy added the Rockin n Roll touch, Duff was the punk & Popcorn or Sorum filled the disco beats.

They lost a lot of fans after 92 because the band became a bloated heap of Rock Opera (No new music, 80 dress code, Horn Sections, Costume changes, Long gaps between songs, A Fat turd of a Keyboard player(paid to bang a tambourine -> Teddy) and a band who was becoming FAT & disorientated.

I was originally convinced that AXL was going in the right direction:
-- Full attention on the music. Bringing back the raw days of GNR.
-- Writing dynamic and complex tunes that played Live would become Epics (Madagascar, Blues).

After watching Lisbon I am now afraid Axl is going to become Spinal Tap.

-- A shit load of musicians with no direction.
-- Changing clothes in between each song.
-- Long delays between each song.
-- Bringing the half empty wine bottle on stage to scream "You know where the fuck you are"
-- Pretending that the "James Brown" tune was improvisation and jamming? The cheesy laugh after the song as if to say "that was kinda cool", even though he did the exact same thing the other night. His "oooo Yeahs" that he sings while improvising sound like the fuckin shit that ruined the Sympathy for the Devil cover.
-- Guitar solo's & drum solo's.
-- That stupid fucking sound control monitor he has attached to his hip.
-- The 2 miles an hour Serpentine Dance (a sign of a chunky has been).
-- The vegas style to the show (that will not go down well in UK & Ireland). Anything cheap and Americanised can fuck back off across the sea. Introducing the band in the final part of the heaviest GNR tune (paradise city).
-- One of their lead guitarists joining the band 2 weeks before the tour.

I am also worried about AXLs voice. He sounds like he is holding back incase he fucks up a note hear or there. Rather than sing the songs he is simply just trying to get the words out in a raspy sounding voice. I think he should hold back on singing Better (I fuckin love the Demo) and IRS until he has practiced singing the melodies a million times over.He is doing these songs no Justice at all. His voice is all over the place.

Seriously I want this to work as much as anyone else. I do not have Slash hanging out of my ass (I hate VRs song writing capabilities) & I am certainly not living in the past (I am interested in both new and classic rock).

I think the following are lame ass excuses:
-- He?s 44 (he chose to make his fuckin comeback now and not 10 years ago).
-- The monitor blew up. Fuck off. U2 have played 1000 gigs with absolute perfect sound (P.S I am not a U2 fan). Either pay for a decent sound engineer or rehearse ( and sing in fuckin rehearsals ).

I see a GNR fence.
On one side you have the media that have there reviews written before the gig even starts. The AXL haters.
On the other side you have people who see the sun shining out of AXLs ass. If he walked on stage, took & turd and left, these people would say ?Amazing. What a turd. He?s 44 that?s why it was that color. It?s a far better turd than what Slash could do etc etc.

I like to believe I am sitting on top of the fence and observing from a realistic point of view.
Axl please return GNR back to its roots, whether with the New Version or the Old. Bring it back to the music. No Vegas. No cheese. No spinal tap. Run that stage like the lunatic you use to be. Rockin Roll should not be perfect. But it should Roll.

Slate my ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought that was a good post. some good points :smoking:

I do have to say that the crowd reaction of Izzy joining the band in NYC made me think of Nigel Tufnel joining the band before Japan - but in all seriousness - I like the new band fine right now.

Definitley don't judge the band by what you saw at Rock In Rio the shows that I saw in New York were the greatest Iv' ever seen

ok then dont see the band, and sit at home hating free countrires  : ok: its all good, no 44 year old turd really needs you anyways

Hopefully so. I hope the new guys do it.
I will be surrounded by people expecting an Indiana 91 like Axl performance.
Mic slinging, rage flinging, grooving, rasping motherfucker!!!!.

i`m fine with the direction the new band is going at....

the band introduction in paradise city wasn?t meant to take place originally i think. they had to cut early and axl didn`t want to miss that....  what else do you mean with vegas style of the show?

and well....  i don`t really love america, but this americanized gigs seem to please me :hihi:

i won`t judge about rio until i get to hear a proper recording. the one we got doesn`t to justice to the band and axl?s voice. i`ll see gnr this friday at rock am ring for the first time in my life and i`ll build my opinion there.

in the meantime, i really enjoyed ALL the solos from the rio show. if you don?t like the guys who play them, of if you don`t care about them, you also won`t enjoy the solos....

the lead guitarist, who joined the band 2 weeks before the tour and the half empty bottle of champagne didn?t bother me at all...  as axl said.....  he`s a three week wonder : ok:

at least they won?t be dissapointed if axl`s voice fucks up then :hihi:

seriously, if someone expects to see the same performance from axl now, he delivered 15-20 years ago he`ll be dissapointed anyways....

Im from a free country (Ireland) and if you think America is free well then you will be shocked when you take a trip across the water and look at it from the outside. The government is fake, fraud and resembles a dictatorship lead by an unintelligent twat. Its not the land of high hopes that it was early 90's. The Statue of Liberty would look better in a pair of hotpants to resemble America's current state.

That does not mean that there is not loads of great people living there. Just means you aint as free as what you think. Texas presses your buttons. The wrong buttons.

Sorry that was a bit harsh. Nothing against texas. I meant bushe and his cowboy machine. He has become the joke of the political world and hopefully America can fully recover when he's out. By recover I mean sort the shit of Iraq and start working on its reputation on a global perspective again. Maybe  then the biggest band in the World will once more be American and hopefully Axl will be its lead singer.

I'm from Belgium... I got all worked up and ecstatic about them changing the name of French Fries (since they're not French at all, they're a Belgian invention you know)... until I found out they decided to change it to freedom fries... ;)

Now seriously, let's not get into politics here huh. I think you made a pretty reasonable post, AXL 20 obviously didn't... just... don't... go there... ;)


*edit* sorry, didn't see your follow-up...

I think you've seemed to answer your own questions.  It sounds to me like you wouldn't enjoy the show at all, so I wouldn't go if I were you.  I don't agree with your points, but you obviouslly have some strong convictions and it doesn't appear you're willing to back down from them, so don't go.  You'll just allow yourself to be dissappointed.

You could be right. I do like a lot of elements of what I have seen from the new GNR. I am only writing comments about what I observed from my first Live video I have of the new crew.

If Lisbon is to judge I think you may be correct in that I will not enjoy the "Show". If the "Show" is a little out of sorts and lacks CHEESE I recon I can defo like it. Its the Cheese / Spinal Tap stuff that does not belong in GNR. Hopefully we will get a New York part 5 in Ireland and not a Madrid/Lisbon "Show".

I see where youre coming from. Good post, that bit about Teddy Zig Zag cracked me up and the final bit about him taking a turd.

But, I think the album will be the most telling thing about how successful the new band is or otherwise.

Whoa!!! I am from Canada living in Texas, I have been across the pond and just because the president is an ass doesn't mean the people here aren't great!

Think twice before you trash an entire country, the people here are no different than the folks in Ireland, I travel around the world with my job and I travel alot. The Irish have thier problems, as does America, the fact is, there are plenty of "free" counties even though Americans lose sight of that at times. But to be fair the world judges America on thier president and if I did that I would not have met my amazing Texas American wife, and I take exception to anyone ignorant enought to judge a person by thier leader of the stigma attached to thier country. Any Germans on this board, French, Chinese? Every country has had thier history of problems... maybe ours is now.

Unfortunately I think you're not likely to get a NY part 5. ?That was a very intimate setting with mostly hardcore GNR fans. ?These larger shows aren't likely to match the intensity. ?I still think they'll be great and definitely worth seeing but if you didn't like the other night you may not enjoy seeing them live. ?Try to catch the show on June 2, I believe that'll be streamed too. ?If your opinion changes then, then you've got your answer.

As far as cheese goes, things have definately improved since the 90s. No Tracy and Roberta. No Ego ramps. No Teddy Zig Zag. No kilts. etc.

The only cheese as I see it really is the excessive solos. (Chris Pittman doesnt count since you hardly see him)

i think his points are valid, but this isnt 1987, and if Axl were still doing the same routine he did in 1987 then that would be boring. ?I think to a certain degree he re-invented himself, but its hard to re-invent something that was so big during that 87-93 time frame. ?I think, and I ve said this way before they tour started, that they need to make sure there is no sound problems, there was were alot in 02, and theres not a better way to piss off the fans then to have sound problems. ?I think it is necessary to fix those and continue to give the fans the best sound possible at the shows. ?

what exactly do you mean by no direction? Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson, and Richard Fortus are very accomplished musicians. Ron Thal is respected for this precision axework in the community. Brain is a much sought after session and touring player. These guys are solid. No direction? They have completed three albums worth of material and are planning a release this fall. I think that is a step in the right direction.


Axl didn't change his clothes between each song. In the NYC shows, he didn't change clothes once. As we get to larger venues in which he can run around more, he will change clothes simply because he will perspire more. I don't think he was overextravagent in Lisbon.


there were sound problems at RiR; Merck mentioned that a sound monitor blew up. The band stalled several times so that the problem could be fixed but apparently they could only do so much.

It was a prop. A cool touch back to the old days. I really don't see why this is a point of contention.


Once again, they were trying to solve the sound problems. They stalled as much as they could, even had to omit new songs in order to finish on time.


Ummm, Axl cannot hear himself without the ear monitor. Why don't you try singing with a freight train blasting in your ears. It is necessary.


Axl has been moving beautifully. I went to NYC and his dancing was terrific. Merck said he pulled a muscle during the RiR show, perhaps that slowed him down.


huh? such as what? The show isn't half as bloated as it was during the UYI tour.


Management tried to get buckethead back for the tour but it was not to be. The band did what it had to do and hired someone else. You complained about the lack of dangerousness, is there anything more spontaneous than hiring a guy who barely had a chance to learn the songs. You will see raw ability up there on stage.


Axl's voice is great. Back to the illusions days.

i can assure you that we are not free here in america. the government openly listens to phone calls and reads through emails. all under the guise of "the patriot act". they can search our homes without warrants and everything. Bush is a moron and anyone that supports him is twice as stupid as he is. anyone that gets inspired by his retarded speechs spewing catch words like "liberty" "terror" "freedom" is not intelligent. another funny thing is pretty much the attitude from bush is if you are against his presidency and the freedoms he's taken away then you yourself are a terrorist. its like the book 1984 in this bitch. free my ass!

back on topic:

That is pretty cheesy to act like you were improving (James Brown song) when it was done at another recent show. I have never been a fan of all the solos (saw them in 02, great show, the solos were stupid). And introducing the band is never cool, always cheesy. That said, I like the new GNR. The new songs kick ass.

Another dead horse thread....wow? ::)

But I'd like to add that much of the pomp of the '92 tour was gone by '93 for the "Skin and Bones" tour.

You know the Stones used horns for a tour, but GN'R do it for a leg of a tour and that's all people remember.

This hate America talk is getting on my last nerve. ?I happen to love the country I live in. ?Please stick to the topic. ?

I agree - I actually like the bloated tour lol!  I loved how Axl changed clothes for different songs - I thought it was kind of cool.

Anyway - my 2 cents

Oh definately dead horse, but these 10 post wonders need to be discredited every once in a while.

I didn't like the way there were huge stops in the performance.  If you add up all the time spent between the songs where there nothing going on, there was pretty much enough time there for an opening band to play.

I think the concert lacked a little bit of flow.

I like the outfit changes.  You know running around in a tight leather shirt must get pretty sweaty, not to mention the fact that he's in jeans too.   

Management tried to get buckethead back for the tour but it was not to be. The band did what it had to do and hired someone else. You complained about the lack of dangerousness, is there anything more spontaneous than hiring a guy who barely had a chance to learn the songs. You will see raw ability up there on stage.


When did anyone say management tried to get bucket back?

It was reported by several people on this board, including someone from the buckethead side. Management has not commented on this.

Sure, there were some good points raised about nu GNR (not that I agree with them all), but I've seen "This is Spinal Tap" 37 times, and the points raised in the opening post have very little to do with Spinal Tap.

I did not think the show was bad at all, caught the web cast. Sound was not real good due to the mixing, but in all fairness sometimes shit happens.

I think this topic that GNRLived started just about sums up every single solitary post about recent events, and has put the people who have

A: Bitched, pissed and moaned
B: Made excuses for Axl's voice change
and
C: Who've talked about the new band's demise at this point

in their places. WELL DONE GNRLived, solid and observational post.

I put in a post yesterday how this band is perfect for Spinal Tap in a lot of ways. Spinal Tap 2 (KFC Buckets and Foot Guitars). I dig that about the band though.

Naw, I think that when the VR breakup rumours were flying strong, it was more like a Spinal Tap situation, but that's a different story altogether.  Ask me sometime and I'll explain it all to you!  Some place, other than this or any GNR related thread that is.

I have followed this board since 2001, am 27 years old and been a fan since i bought afd in 4th grade and have never posted.  Need to make sure i state that since most that post seem to attack people's 'credibility' based on how long they been a fan. 
I just want to say that I am a little curious, do people that come on here and post about the new band and how much they don't like them b/c it is not the original lineup really care that much that they spend their quality time that they could be spending with friends, family, g/f's, etc posting on this board?  Really, it blows my mind.  THIS band have been together for nearly 10 years.  They have played a ton of gigs, yet we still read the same old shit from those guys.
I saw them in Vegas, twice on the 2002 tour and the opening night in NYC.  I personally feel that this group is truly legit and f'n love it.  Lets face it, Axl is GNR and always has been.  Sure, Slash was unreal, but Axl is why we all went to the shows.  Guess what?  Axl is still there, and that is still why we are all fans.  We all knew he was the only key person back, yet we are all still here, posting messages.........that tells you right there what the GNR name means.
We all know, the setlists don't change, we all know the new songs that will be played, we all know there will never be a reunion, we all know axl is 44 years old and we all know that CD needs to come out to support all of us that have been hyping the new band.  If you can't embrace it, surely you can start to use the time posting nonsense on something much more important in your life.  If you don't like it, why would you even follow the band?

I know this is way too long, but I am pissed.  One last thing to comment on, it is hard to look past the fact that nowadays with the intenet, it is much easier to scrutinize b/c we read about, see and listen to everything that goes on.  This was not possible back in the day.  Too much coverage is never a good thing, makes things a little stale, so of course the band playing the same setlist everynight seems stale to us, but I know when i am at the concert and I am a fan that the band is performing in front of, I could really care less b/c these fuckers still rock.  I can't speak for fact, but I don't recall a huge difference in setlists back in the day.  Anyways, just think all the internet coverage from US adds to that frustration.

Some of your points are valid. That one isn't.
Vegas style? Cheap and Americanized? Maybe you should just avoid american bands, or at least this one in particular. It seems like, hey maybe I'm wrong, I kind of remember GNR always being a bit of a theatrical outfit. I think they call it "showmanship," it's what people are talking about when they refer to the immense stage presence and charisma of guys like Axl and, in the old days, Slash.

Perhaps the UK and Ireland (I love how you took it upon yourself to speak for four seperate countries there, it shows great confidence) would prefer a classic brit-rock performance? You know, maybe Axl & co could come on stage and proceed to play miserably for 45 minutes while standing still and staring at their feet, occasionally waving the odd can of lager around. Is that still what passes for entertainment in that socialist nightmare we call a united kingdom? Just wondering. 

This needs to be moved to dead horse. We've heard this shit way to much lately on the board and it needs to stop. Listen to something alse if you don't like what's happening with the band and Axl.

And on Memorial Day no less....show some respect assholes.

And this topic has been talked to death.  Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Respect?!? You are the one calling people names. What part of my "anti american" post was untrue? The truth hurts huh?

Fuck you Anti Americans.  You don't see me talking shit about your country assholes

Um, have you read my signature?

And this isn't the place for a political discussion.  check your PM.

People stop reading a sentence and then blasting it. If you read the full post you will realise that what I said was:
-- A lot of great people live in America.
-- America and Texas are great people. However, the great people are not heard (please dont start "star" dropping names. Its your average joe soap great person that I am talking about). The reason they are not heard is because of the propaganda machine coming from your administration.
-- You are not free. It pisses me off to no end to hear that word being associated with the U.S. The U.S is far from free. Iraq is not liberated, free or anything remotely like it. Nothing Bushe and his administration have anything to do with is FREE.

I recon if any other band had of headlined the monitor would not have blown. How come U2 can play a million gigs with perfect sound?????
The Red Hot Chilli Peppers have played Ireland 3 times over the last few years and they are the same age as GNR. I dont think people took notice of their age.

I dont want a shit brit rock band. I dont mind pyro, big stages etc once the Rock N Roll is REAL, DIRTY & GOOD (or if you are called GNR -> GREAT).

I think you analyse things too much  :hihi:

Wow, why did I just waste my time reading another Guns bashing thread. Hell we all know we were going to get some of these guys. But damn I give this guy credit he wrote a whole book about it.

As I have said in all the other bash threads.
Axl has already said some people are not going to like the new sound. My advice to those still holding onto the old guns is to let them go! Be thankful you had the music the old guys made, but damn give us who are support the new lineup a break from all the bashing!

Dude you can look forward to a Velvet Revolver CD oh nevermind you will sit and analyze them also saying they are a circus and need Axl back.  :hihi:

FINALLY ... someone ELSE saying what I said to my girlfriend after watching Rio ... that they seem like a Vegas act... destined to join the likes of Elton John and Celine Dion, doing a sit down tour in some casino....

Axl's clothes ... how fucking cheesy, vegas pimp did he look?  Ginger braids?  WTF?  Doesn't he know that at school he'd have had his ass kicked for that?  And the blue and purple filtered lighting isn't subtle and cool like the white, red etc spot's from the old shows, it's slimey and tacky and seems like it's being done for TV.  Chat Show's do that when they have an act on in the UK ... Parkinson or something.... eugh.

Listen... I hope to FUCK that Axl doesn't do this for Download.  He WILL get boo'd off stage.  The metal crowd at Donnington, will NOT accept such cheese.  Guns N' Roses or not.  They'll expect the raw, hard rock band.  If they don't get that (and don't tell me GnR is a raw hard rock band now ... they aren't)... they will throw piss and insults at Axl.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I doubt that Axl spends a lot of time in the schoolyard these days. But what do I know?



And you're right, metal fans accept no cheese. Ever. They're reknowned for their refined tastes. For example:

(http://photos.lacoccinelle.net/24/78/112478.jpg)

 :hihi:

Did you actually go to Lisbon to see GN'R live?

HA HA :hihi: Manowar cracks me up.
I dont slate VR. I bought the album. Thought it was below average. Went to see them live and thought they are average.

Anyway here's a few sentences so that this post does not get thrown in the DEAD HORSE section (coz I mentioned slash or criticised guns):
-- AXL Rocks. This is the best I have ever heard his voice.
-- Axls stage presence is out of this world.
-- The new tunes are amazing live.
-- Ron is an amazing song writer & finck is guns greatest ever asset.
-- The band have a clue what is going on with the album and have heard it in the last 2 years.
-- There was a time is better than estranged and chinese democracy is the new welcome to the jungle.

I think your points are valid and come from a good place. But they are probably a little extreme IMO - GnR getting booed at Donnington? I dont think its likely.

The way they sounded and looked ... I think it IS likely ... but we'll see ... I'll be there, so I guess I will know if it happens!

As much as my negativity may come across... it's just because I care ...  I am excited about seeing Axl Rose.

Well, I guess they may get booed if they (meaning Axl) make some inexcusable fuck up but we've got off to a mostly smooth start to the tour so far.

The show they are doing seems to satisfy a lot of people. (Ironically it seems the die hard GnR old or GnR new fans who want more)

They're certainly not gonna change their whole set up for those two shows. And they're not going to get boo'ed off the stage.

If there are any newgnr fans here that haven't seen any old bootlegs of this band particualrly 87-91, then please do so sometime. It WILL change our opinion on what is and isn't gnr. I suggest the following viewing:
Ritz 88
Philadelphia 88
Rock in Rio 91 (first night particularly)
Indiana 91
St. Louis 91

Then go back and watch Rock in rio 5 and tell me that 'band' is gnr and not Axl Rose and Friends.

Alot of us (myself included) saw all of things when they first happened. We've been watching our bootlegs of them for years as well. Alot of us still like and accept the newer members as Guns N' Roses.