Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Knocking on heavens door

You could be Mine

Live and let die

November Rain


There has to be a reason that these are the only four from those albums.  I'm very curious why those are the only ones that they play.   

My theories: Maybe axl doesn't want to play for psycological reasons.  Maybe when he thinks of those songs he assiociates them with the breakup of the original band.  Maybe he won't play songs like "estranged" and "coma" because he associates those with band feelings he had personally that he doens't want to relive.

2.  Maybe he legaly can't play some of those songs because they  belong to other people but that really wouldn't explain you could be mine.

3.  The new band can't play.  I think this is bullshit.  I don't believe that "estranged" is anymore difficult to play than november rain.  This band kicks so much ass and seems to me that they are all playing clean and sober (which i believe was a problem with the old band.)

The band is full of of nothing but the best talent.  non of the members are newbies at music.  They have all been in succesful bands.  I really just think it's a pitty that they don't play more of those songs.

What do you guys think,
Hatts

What other UYI songs do you think they should play?

Don't Cry and Civil War are the only two that I can think of that would be good to add off the top of my head.

Estranged and Coma would be total momentum killers.  Great songs for when you are at home on your couch, bad songs for a concert.  They're just too long.

i would really like to hear some songs that were rarely played like breakdown, locomotive, coma incorporated into the new shows as well as some songs that have never been played like don't damn me or shotgun blues. ? : ok:

Don't damn me would be ironically very appropriate....

i really really wanna hear don't cry and civil war,and maybe estranged, which is my fave song. but that would be too much to ask for i guess,i don't know

Any would be good for me.  I guess that is a good point.  I guess i just really miss Estranged.  The illusion albums were my favorite man.




Hatts

Songs I think they should play from Use Your Illusion I & II:

-Don't Cry
-Civil War
-Estranged

Those would be nice additions to the setlist...(jmo)

yeah, they should play more from the illusions... like: don?t cry, ?double talking jive, the garden, civil war, 14 years, yesterdays, and most importantly, breakdown, so fine and ESTRANGED!! :o

What Hanna said.

I'd rather hear Locomotive, pretty tied up, the garden or My world( :hihi:) than those 4 on the set.
but Maybe these are the songs Hatts theory applies to.

He doesn't play them 'cause they rely too much on the old band.

and afd doesn't?

imo, i wish axl would stop playing live and let die and knockin' on heavens door.  if they are going to play covers, try some new ones for a change or play some more uyi material.

AFD didn't have credits to a single member. (theres "Slash songs" and "Izzy songs")
And I do think AFD does rely on old members, but Axl, for some reason, plays old songs.
(I've seen numerouse fans asking for MORE new songs. Axl said in rio that he plays to OLD songs for the fans, which isn't correct. Fans wanna hear new stuff)

See i really just don't buy that.  I think the new band could "play the fuck out of those songs".  I really just don't think that those songs are any harder than appetite for destruction.



Hatts

It's not about "how hard it is". It's more like who wrote it and whos the lead man on the songs.

Please read this post HannaHat.

I agree Hatts.  To imply that UYI songs are harder to play then AFD songs is completely absurd.  Its a matter of choice.  There aren't really that many AMAZING UYI songs to be honest.  Estranged and Coma wouldn't be right for a concert and the don't damn me and bad obsession songs are average tunes.  EVERYBODY knows the AFD songs and they are all kick ass rock songs.  I don't mind the set list at all.  If you've been to a GNR show this year and you were "unhappy" with the songs they played you don't know how to relax and have a good time.

As far as I know, "Think About You" is an Izzy song, yet that has been played since 2001.

IMO, There is no good reason for them not playing more of the old songs and mixing up their setlist. ?I'd settle for a new cover song!

I think the reason is more practical - the AFD songs are more popular (and by most accounts, plain better).  Hes already playing a 2-plus hour show.  Its possible that songs like "Dont Cry" and "Estranged" are omitted for personal reasons...hopefully an interviewer asks about it. 

Well, it's not so clearly led by old members like ie. Don't Cry (written by Izzy and Slash solo. )
Also songs like Double Talkin' Jive/Locomotive,  very Izzy/Slash songs.

There is no excuse for the lack of Illusion songs. Musically this band is on par if not ahead of old Gn'R so I am sure they could play them if they chose to do so. I know that we will probably never hear Coma but there are PLENTY of songs that should still be played. This 2006 tour should be the time to bust out with Don't Cry and Dead Horse etc. Otherwise this is pretty damn close to 2002.

The reason is they are gonna be playing mostly CD songs when the album drops and will just play the classics, there is no point in learning many UYI songs since they will just be playing about 10 old songs and 10 new at each show after the album comes out.

Yeah, after the album comes out... Which is when? Certainly not for European crowds...

i think it has a lot to do with who wrote the songs. if you listen to axl's talk on the trunk show about the illusion era, he doesnt really speak fondly of the whole situation between the band, also, if you look at the credits in all their albums, somewhere along the way it went from being "all songs written by GNR" to "(slash) or (axl) or (izzy)".

i think axl sticks with the ones that he was responsible for, or had the biggest hand in. as far as AFD, even though some songs were started by ertain players, im sure it was more of a collaborative effot then the illusion albums, hence why we hear all of that, and so little of anything else.

Maybe Axl should just do 7 hour sets and play every song on every album and then if you still not satisified he can take requests   ::)

Yeah,

jesus people, atleast he is out and playing again. why cant anyone be satisfied?

you can all stay at home and listen to the UYI albums then and ill enjoy my spot in the front row.

Ehm? I hope you're not a musician yourself ? :-*

Well I'm not saying that they should ADD the UYI songs and make the entire show longer... I think that each show they should come up with a unique setlist. ?It adds a new level of excitement to a live show when there is an unexpected setlist. ?How many times do you read about the "highlight" of the show being a song the band doesn't normally play? ?People aren't leaving the new GN'R concerts saying "Wow! Can you believe the performance of Out Ta Get Me? ?Lucky we caught the band in this city!"

What bothers me more is Axl's plans for future setlists... Obviously once the album is out there will be an emphasis on the new material... but will the setlists be as calculated and boring as they are now? ?Will it just be the new album with Jungle, SCOM, November Rain & Paradise City? ?If that's the case, why even bother calling the band Guns N' Roses?

though i dont agree with that statement, i do think that half of the illusion songs arent worth playing live.

Well, if these shows have anything to do with the fans then it shouldn't matter who wrote the songs. I am in ?favor of huge banners with UYI songs at the next tour. even when CD comes out, these songs should be played. I don't think too many people will mind if they cut some of the 9 or so AFD songs they play every night and make room for more UYI. Lets face it, unless they play a 4 hour show most diehards will never be happy.

no, they really dont have much to do with the fans, and more to do with promotion.

and i think that axl playing his songs makes perfect sense.

I agree Eazy. Someone please tell me what incentive there is to see more than one show, if the setlist ?is gonna be the same night in and night out. Not to get off topic but Pearl Jam is  the best example of a popular rock band who varies the set night in and night out. I think they do it for themselves and for their fans.

I tend to agree with Hanna and Booker, most are just not as good as the AFD material featured while the others are absolute momentum killers. ?

The only UYI song I'd like to hear would be Yesterdays, would trade that for Patience in a minute...

pearl jam has more material to pull from.

pearl jam has more material to pull from.

And back when Guns used to do varied sets in 91-92 they only had 3 albums. Now they have Spaghetti/OMG/Leaks/CD(someday!). etc. No reason to not switch it up.

I think Guns N' Roses playing Guns N' Roses songs makes perfect sense.

Why should it matter how much material they have to pulll from? ?I think everyone agrees that we don't need to hear Shotgun Blues or My World... but there are a handful of UYI songs on there that people would go nuts for if they actually played them.

They are all songs from the AFD era.. YCBM and NR were supposed to be on it.
The other songs are covers... so nothing from the UYI era at all

if by handfulyou mean 3 or 4 then yes, there are 3 or 4 songs worth playing from those, but nothing that would drastically change the set.

id rather hear there was a time be added to the rotation more often than anything from UYI, with the exception of estranged. which he probably wont play since he said that song would be nothing without slash.

Hey real quick i realise that this post kind of had a negotive connotation around it which i didn't mean for it to have.  I really don't mind that they play a lot of appetite.  I went to the nyc concert on the 14th and it was fucking great.  I was more interested in maybe getting some answers as to why axl doesn't want to play more of them.  I know that a lot of them will probably never be played but im interested as to why?



The only song i would love if they played is estranged,
Hatts

The Eddie Trunk interview-I think Axl now thinks the videos are cheesy, he had a hard time getting Slash and Izzy to work on songs, He mentioned he felt pressured to release them, he really hasn't much to say positive about that era-I think Axl was so unhappy during that era, those songs remind him of it-I don't know-a it's amazing out of UYI 1 and 2 he's playing one song GNR wrote-LALD and KOHD covers, of course-I'm surprised, I love a lot of songs from those albums, but a lot of them I didn't like-oops, forgot about You Could be Mine, though-I'll have to go through and think about the "Axl" songs, he was talking about from Eddie Trunk-I still think Don't Cry and Estranged would be awsome from the new band to hear-especially Don't Cry, w 3 guitars.

reminds him of the demise of GnR? dunno... :-\

That's not what I mean... I don't think there should be "rules" about how many songs from each album should be on the setlist. ?


If there is a reason, no one knows it for sure. ?I personally don't think there is a good reason not to play those songs. ?Axl was unpredictable when he played the acoustic show and included 2 Lies songs and people loved it. ?Variety is the spice of life.

There has to be a reason for lack of uyi

because the tracks on AFD are better  :hihi:  :beer:

...or, the tracks on UYI are more difficult to perform  ;D

Maybe it's to do with who wrote what song. If the new GnR perform old songs, do the ex gunner's recieve any cash if certain songs are perfomed?

Haha, with a few exceptions, I agree.  : ok:

the axl songs:

November Rain
You Could Be Mine
Back Off Bitch
My World
Breakdown
Shotgun Blues
Dead Horse


 i think im missing one.

First, I love the UYI records. However, when songs from these 2 records are played live, it usually breaks down the momentum of the show. ?If you look at setlist from the UYI tours, the shows were long but didn't rock that much: add in guitar solos, drum solo, Estranged, Double Talkin Jive (I'm talking about the 5mn solo at the end), November Rain and a few others half slow-half rockin (i.e., yesterdays), you end up with so much downtime that it's kinda annoying. I remember back in 92, all my friends didn't like the show. It think that's the main reason. ? On the opposite, the shows at Hammerstein rocked hard, even with NR or solos in the middle. It didn't like too much downtime (well, that;s the idea though I still feel 5 or 6 guitar solos are wasy too much).

Now, it's be great if they could rotate songs: one night NR, one night Estranged, one night Coma.... that would make shows less predictable. ?

But hey, as someone posted earlier, it's great to have GNR back on stage!

and let's be thankful for that.

The main reason is that they want to make the whole audience go nuts at each concert.

And apparently it happens only when they play AFD songs and the hits,
Most UYI tracks are not like so familiar that everyone can sing along.
The audience's responce to them wouldn't be so different from that to the new songs. am I right?

My guess is that they are playing the oldies up to a certain point and no more.

Hmm, in Europe it's the Illusion tracks that are more familiar...

I rock dude.  Trust me.  haha kidding.

Seriously I think sometimes GNR fans get so caught up in the name that Axl could sing nursey rhymes and people would say they are better then AFD songs.  Its like the people who think Oh My God is a truly excellent song.  Its avg at BEST.  There are probably people out there who think "shotgun blues" is a really good tune...c'mon, lets be real.  Don't get me wrong, the illusions discs have some AWESOME songs, but I can't think of too many other songs besides the ones he is already playing that would be worth putting in.  (locomotive, coma, estranged, breakdown...all too long).

I agree with that one person, I would love to hear yesterdays.  Great song and in light of where guns is now I think its a very appropriate song.

While Don't Cry is a great song, theres already enough slower songs on the set list.  Patience and NR are much bigger songs then don't cry.

It's hard to please everyone

Well...asking a band to maybe stop ignoring two albums that jointly sold 32 million copies worldwide by 1993 is not that much to ask, now is it? :hihi:

The theory of the band not being able to play these songs is completely bullshit. The biggest argument here is "Estranged" in that people think it cannot be played because no one is good enough. HAH. Don't make me laugh. Estranged is a very easy song to play on guitar, I don't care what people think. The bass is simple as well. The piano, hmm...Dizzy already fucking knows that. The rhythm guitar even more simple.

So yes, there is definitely another reason besides that theory.

How is it ignored? they play 4 songs from those discs?

Are you asking me if they play 4 songs from those discs? Eh? :hihi:

Anyways....

4/30
^
That's the fraction right there. They're not totally ignored but almost completely.

 :o

That is a good point and I can understand that, but you think could get rid of "out to get me" in exchange for one of those.  Really though i'm just happy that they are out that at all.  Long live gnr.


Hatts

I dont think its so much about reminding him of the demise of GnR. They toured and officially stayed together for a few years after.

But the recording for UYI was a very hard process for all the band members I think. Remember what Axl had to say about the UYI albums in the Trunk interview. Probably reminds him too much on being on bad terms with his good friend Izzy.

If you really analyze it, he's not playing anything from UYI, 
You Could Be Mine is an old song that was suppose to be on AFD, November Rain as well.

LALD and KOHD are just cover songs...

Estranged on the 2006 tour:
"I'm only 48 and much to young to let love break my heart..."  ???   :rofl:
the song is dated

Why would he play anything from UYI, it's been a long time, play the hits and intergrate the new songs :beer:

Don't Cry was the first song ever written by the real Guns. It's probably to personal.

Estranged... I think Axl's voice can't handle it anymore. He can hardly get through the bridge in Rocket Queen so Estranged would really mess with his vocal chords.

So bands shouldn't be playing songs that are "personal" to them?? I'm pretty sure every single song in GN'R's catalogue is personal and has a lot of emotion attached to it from Axl's point of view.


2 of those are covers... 2/28... that's ignoring in my book!


It's been a longer time since AFD... and there are songs on the Illusions that were hits.? In fact, there's more Illusion songs on Guns N' Roses successful Greatest Hits album than there is from Appetite.

Again, if the plan is to "play the new songs and phase out the old stuff except for the hits", then why bother calling the band Guns N' Roses?? If they're only planning on playing new material and 3-4 classic songs, then call the band something else and consider those songs "covers"... Just like Velvet Revolver.? Don't get me wrong, I'm jazzed that Axl is back and it's great that they are touring... but I find it strange that they are refusing to play so many good songs.

as to why the songs are not played, only Axl truely knows

But i think breakdown would be an awesome addition to thier current set

Axl has good taste thats why. AFD owns UYI

Hatts

the funny thing is he has this super huge band out there and he's playing many songs that only took 5 guys, you'd think the illusions would have fit this band better simply since they have the two keyboard players..

For a man that didn't want to live his life through one album he sure loves it to death.. Must suck for the new band playing covers most of the time..

and:

"I might be a little young
But Honey I ain't naive"

?

 :hihi:

should be: "i'm not young anymore and honey i aint naive"

But they've all joined the band as members of Guns N' Roses, the GNR catalogue certianly is a huge part of that right?      They aren't the guys who recorded the songs, but these aren't exactly covers either.  Like in any other band, when a member leaves and is replaced, its the same thing, that guy has to learn all the previous material, and he's part of the band, and its that band's song.

Funny how nobody said that about Gilby and/or Matt when they were playing AFD songs.......

The "unofficial" history of Guns N' Roses in the minds of many critics and casual fans alike is that the band lost its way on the UYI albums and got left in the dust when stripped down grunge hit the scene.... maybe Axl is responding to that perception.

I know personally that I enjoy the Illusions a lot... but when I see Guns in 2006... I'm want to hear the CLASSICS from the back catalog (many of which are AFD tracks) and NEW songs from Chinese D. I was a lucky son-of-a-bitch when I went to the May 12th NYC show. All the Classics + Better, IRS, CD, Madagascar, TWAT, The Blues. : ok:

Actually, its not. Has someone in the GNR camp told Axl what year it is? Last time I checked my calendar, it wasn't 1988. Do you see people begging for AFD? GNR fans haven't waited to hear AFD played almost in its entirety. People who want that will listen to AFD or watch Ritz 88. The only thing shoving AFD down peoples throats is going to accomplish is fan disinterest. You dont just hype CD for years on end and come back with a bunch of old music. Either start showcasing the album like fans want, or name the tour what it really is: AFD Rehash Tour Part2. Its because it wasn't never ending rehash then. All that material was relevant then, and Matt was on UYI. Gilby was on TSI. Also, Izzy left so early in the UYI era that Gilby stepped in immediately. Funny you are trying to compare that to this situation.

Somewhat different situation. Axl, Slash and Duff were always the three biggest personalities in the band... at least in the public's mind. As long as those three were there... no one was going to give the drummer who replaced the original guy who was a pathetic junkie... or the rhythm guitarist who replaced the original guy who had no interest in being a part of it any more... a hard time. In fact, those replacements were actually "liked" because they helped keep the GN'R machine moving.

Axl could hit the stage tonight with Slash, Duff, Finck, Fortus, Brain, Reed and Pitman and the entire world would probably embrace it as Guns N' Roses so long as Axl, Slash and Duff were all there.

its late and my head hurts....be nice to me! haha.

you make excellent points - i guess what i was getting at is at what point do you say "its not GNR"....after steve is fired? when Izzy quits? or is it really just duff and slash people cared about not being in the band? 

I think you're totally wrong about the set list, but we can agree to disagree on that.  I don't know one person who went to Hammerstein on any of the nights and said, "that sucked! I wanted to hear more songs that I don't know!!!!"  There is a whole generation of fans who have NEVER HEARD THESE SONGS LIVE!!!  I saw dads with their teenage kids at the NYC shows and I thought how awesome that was.

I hear ya....I think even Duff could have been replaced and people would have gotten over it.  Slash and Axl were the two big personalities back in the day.....

The Hammerstein shows prove nothing. That was mostly hardcore fans willing to hear anything. Wait until this rehash tour plays to empty arenas across the country. Im telling you guys, its just not gonna fly anymore. 2002 proved that. During the UYI in 1991, people wanted to hear new music, and loved that setlist. Why do you think its different now? Because you guys want it to be different? The success of the US tour depends on everything that occurs in Europe. So far, the NY shows and the spain show are strong indications of a 2002 repeat. When he heads back over here and yells, "You know where the fuck you are", there will be an echo, and dont say I didnt warn you.

Time will tell I suppose.  All I can say is people really enjoyed the show in NYC, and I know plenty of non die hards who attented.......but anyways, does this mean you're not going to the CA show?  ;)

Also, I thougth a lot of the euro shows had already sold out?  Is that not the case?  and IF CD is really going to be released in the fall, the set list very well could change to include some new songs.  As for diehards/non die hards...to the avg. fan there are SIX new songs being played....while not new to us, they are new to many people...

As far as the CA show, I will most likely go. I have been a GNR fan since 87, and I would like to support new GNR on this tour. But I just cant jump on board with this stale setlist. I really hope he changes it at some point during the Euro tour. AFD songs like NT, MB, RQ,etc, can easily be replaced with new songs and fans not be pissed, because he would still be playing the old hits. There's no reason to dig so deep into AFD.

I could see skipping songs if these albums were huge bombs. Sometimes I will see a band that I am really into and they will omit albums entirely , simply because they feel that the audience may not be familiar with the material. Of course we know that everyone can't be pleased. I don't expect an acoustic version of Coma or anything like that. Could someone please tell me the incentive for seeing more than one show if the set lists are not varied. Isn't it terribly boring for the band to play the same show night in and night out?

Don't Cry and Civil War for me definitely. Two of my all-time faves.

Agreed.

I'm going to Paris and thinking of going to Wembley but I really don't want to go to Wembley if its the exact same setlist.

As far as I know, most bands play the same list night after night, so why are people picking on GNR?  The only band I know that changes the list every single night is Pearl Jam.

I remember a while ago hearing some guy (not from GNR but something simliar) say that setlist do not change much partly due to stage effect and light show that are specific to songs and it's a pain in the ass to change that all the time. (PJ never had a huge lightshow). I don't think it's a great excuse but that what the guy said.

Don't Cry, Civil War, Bad Obsession, Pretty Tied Up would all be cool to hear live again

How about they play NO Guns songs......

It's true, other than Pearl Jam and Dream Theater, very few bands change the set lists up too much

Pretty Pied Up & Civil War

I love how all these people trash Axl for playing most of the songs from one of the greatest albums ever released. ?From all the reviews I've heard the "new" songs have gotten very light response. ?I saw them in 2002 and when they played The Blues, Maddy, and CD, people got up to go to the bathroom, go to the concession stands, one of my buddies who was in a different section of the arena even fell asleep during the new tunes. ?The fact is, 90% of the people at the concerts want to hear the classics. ?Chinese Democracy is not out yet, not even close, not enough people have heard the leaks. ?Axl is not out to please 500 people from various GNR message boards. ?He's out to please the masses. ?And so far, so good. ?So get used to what you've been hearing, or stop listening. ?Sorry but things ain't gonna change overnight. ?Patience people, patience.