Here Today... Gone To Hell!

No rock album is going to go anywhere without a geniuine pop song.
I'm not saying it needs some pop punk crap or some shit like that...

Think of Appitite. It wasn't big until they released Sweet Child O' Mine, a softer pop song with a kick ass solo, as a single.
Pop doesn't have to be bad... All a song needs to be "pop" is radio friendly. Release a song thats more upbeat, softer and something to usher it over the other crap, Sweet Child had the greatest riff and solo of all-time, this song will need something along those lines (ok, maybe not that perfect but a kick ass solo would do it.)

I can garuntee without a song like that this album is going no where fast mainstream wise. Especially in this day and age where rock is virtually non-existent in the mainstream.

Ummm....

Have you heard the full version of Better?!?!

If thats not a genuine pop-rock song I dont know what is...

The lyrics and melodies of the song cry out a future #1 radio hit to me...

You've already dissed Catcher, and that's another pop hit to me...

Or The Blues....

Trust me, Axl knows what he's doing... : ok:

Better is not radio friendly.
Maybe it would be in the 80's but not today.

WAY to heavy. WAY to many effects.

You'll be proven very wrong after it's an enormous hit.

Haha ok buddy  : ok:

If Better is an enormous hit  (top 5 mainstream) I will promise to never log on to the internet again.

it will be a huge hit, and u will prolly still be on htgth but under the username.. "inslashsass"

That's a really unfortunate bet you just made. Not worth debate right now since no one can be proved right, but come this fall or spring when it's a huge hit, you'll be eating those words.

Haha ok.
There hasn't been a hardrock song in the top 5 since 1995.

Your simply under the impression that Better is way to heavy for radio because of the sheer unoriginality and tameness of modern rock radio.

There simply isn't anything new out there in the world of Rock that experimentally comes even remotely close to Better, and does it in a way that is appealing and intriguing to music fans who might not even cared for Guns N' Roses, old or new...

& I shall hold you to you're word da_pope... : ok:

I think alot of people do that and don't even think about it as far as Better is concerned.

P.S. I keep meaning to compliment you on the Syd pic. Shine On!

better is pop song with a hard edge

So. Let me get this straight.
You think that 12 - 17 year old girl (The main demographic when it comes to mainstream) is going to listen to "Better" and say "hey.. I like this song I should go get my mommy to buy me this album".

actually  VR did it, and i think the most recent was Avenged Sevenfold, but i think those were the only two

Top 5?
In Mainstream? As in "Hot 100"?

Hahahahaha.

Slither peaked in the high 50's on the Hot 100.

You took the words right out of my 46 year old father's mouth...

Better was the first of the leaks my old man heard, and his first conclusion is that it is destined to be a #1 hit.

If anything Better though, I think Better may be a little to tame for Gn'R's first new single in almost a decade.

As Ive said many times, the first single has to be THE big gun...

It's got to grab listeners from all different demographics with all different interests in music, and sell Chinese Democracy to them, no ands/ifs/ or buts :-\

The rock demographic that both Sony BMG and Universal are tagerting is 14-29 male and females just so you know for the future. And yes, I think people of both sexes from that entire age group are going to dig the tune. Again... something to be proven in the furture.

Ah, but were not talking about Rock.
Were talking about mainstream radio. The shit that gets played on Hot 95.9
Slither was a huge hit on rock radio but it didn't even make a dent in the mainstream.

Ive sent this song to people from that very demographic, as Im sure many other people here have done, just out of sheer curiousity of what reaction it would garner, and trust me, it is well liked, and a studio version could only help Gn'R's cause as far as the teeny-bopper demographic is concerned.

Why you ask? Because it's catchy and poppy as hell... ;D

It needs more like three if it's going to do the huge numbers that everyone is hoping.

??? Sweet Child O' Mine wasn't played on stations like that when it was current. It is now, but so is plenty of other stuff from that era that was never played on those same stations when they were released. I guess I don't understand what you're asking of GNR then. Are you saying they need to include something that sounds like All American Rejects or something like that to get airplay on "mainstream" radio stations?

Before you guys start accusing me of Axl bashing I'd like to state that I love Better and i think it's a kick ass song but I'm just saying it's not going to come near to what you guys are expecting it to.

A reunited Guns couldn't release a top 5 hit these days. There is no chance.
Rock N' Roll is dead when it comes to mainstream radio.

Better is not hard at all, just in one spot and not for long! It will be a hit, and has a pop sound to it. I don't know if it'll be #1, but I'm guessing it'll be pretty high. Atleast #20 and that's being optimistic...

Thats because in the 80's Rock was mainstream.
It was the equivalent to Hip Hop and R&B today.

I'm saying it needs a song that could get heavy airplay on those kind of radio stations for it to reach the numbers you guys are expecting.

Top 20 would be very impressive for a hard rock band.
Thats probably the goal of the record company. Top 5 is almost out of the question.

In the 80s rock was played on the same stations it is played on today. However, since that time all of those bands have gotten moved to being in rotation on the mainstream pop stations as well. For instance Bon Jovi, Whitesnake, GNR and some Crue are all played on the same stations that play Matchbox, Nickelback & that crap. But I asked what your point was? Do you mean that GNR should release something that sounds like Nickelback & Matchbox to get pop radio play?

Better will probably hit #1 on the ROCK CHARTS...The only song that has a chance of going #1 of the main charts
is ' The Blues'....This will be the POP song your looking for.

99% of the people that have heard Better have liked it.  Most people get into it, the song could be huge on radio stations. Its really too bad Better didnt leak instead of IRS, i would have loved to hear the reaction.  A lot of the new gnr songs have hip hop beats which the kiddies of today love. Better is a club song that would get people going crazy.  You should bring a CD of BEtter to club and ask the DJ to pop it in and see what happens.

I actually completely agree with da_pope on this one.

Better is way too heavy to make an impact outside of hard rock radio - I like the song, but they need something that's catchier and lighter to capture a wide audience. Better will definitely turn heads, but it won't be that mega-huge single that GNR needs.



CITR would be my instant pick, but lyrically it's too complex for radio. I'm sure there's something else waiting in the wings - I have a strong feeling we'll hear the 1st single at Rio.

In response to the thread title, then:

Better is a phenominal song, and is *extremely* catchy and "radio-friendly."

CITR, when I first heard it, made me think "Damn. ?This sounds just like a lite-rock pop song I'd see on VH1 these days." ?(I liked it very much, but I was still surprised).

Chinese Democracy is a hard-hitting, short number that could hold it's own above the heavy-metal/nu-metal currently getting play on most rock stations.

"The Blues" speaks for itself...a bit long, but still - melody, drama, etc. ?Again, a great choice as a stand-alone, piano-pop song.

Really, from what I've heard of Democracy, I have a hard time finding a track that's *not* a well-written pop song. ?The only one that doesn't fit that mold, assuming it's still on the track list, is OMG. ?But as far as CD needing a pop song, I don't agree. ?

They need a song like "Man, I feel like a woman" by Shania Twain!

Agreed.  Universal theme, familiar sound, short enough to release as an easily digestible single for radio.  I don't expect them to be #1 on the radio, necessarily, as most radio is corporate crap anyhow.  The album, however, will debut at #1, undoubtedly.  The public curiosity itself will take care of that.  How long it can maintain a strong chart position will depend on word of mouth, choice of radio singles, tv & radio saturation and, of course, accessibility. 

Personally, I couldn't give less of a turd about how the mass American public greets the record except for the fact that it could have possible negative consequences on Axl's willingness to continue touring and releasing records.  He's never had much love of critics.

If only other singing types would respond to public outcries of "it stinks!" perhaps Rob Thomas would go silently into that beige boring night.

I dont really see Better as a pop song or a single for that matter

Too much going on, too complex and too heavy

 If there is any new song that is destined to be a Hit, it is "THE BLUES". That's a kick ass song that has the best chances of becoming Number One on the Radio. That's a song that would work with many different formats. Rock , Pop , AC. GnR would be smart to release that song first.

i appreciate and respect what you all have to say, you've got very valid reasons

personally i couldn't give a fuck if they have a pop song or a hit single or anything

i love the direction the album is taking now..the hard edge and the experimentation...i hope they don't compromise that

having said that, "Better" does have alot of potential to be a 'hit'

also having said that, there are more songs we have yet to hear so we can't judge..

but regardless it doesn't matter if Guns do or don't break into the charts with a huge single..the charts and the mainstream are all bullshit anyway..the band is already legendary...and at least they are progressing with new material rather than being nostalgic or trying to recapture their glory days and make AFD part two or whatever

I wouldn't be so quick to say that, they might have another song that's still unheard that they'd rather release.

As far as Better goes, and it being too heavy for teenage girls or whatever. I just graduated high school, and when Better first got leaked I showed it to to all my friends, both boys and girls, and they all loved it. The song is wicked catchy and people love it. Some people who have never liked Guns, liked this song when I showed them. This song has huge potential to be a mass mainstream hit, with both teens and adults. Both pop fans, and metal fans. Better is so diverse that it appeals to both types to music fans. It's my favorite song at the moment.

fuck yeah.. i love "Better" its one of my favourite songs of all time by any band

The studio version is going to own so badly..i just hope it isn't too heavily processed..

 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I.R.S was at #49 on the radio airplay chart with numerous requests and was gaining upwards when they pulled it back in Feb. I'd say it has the " in your face " of Guns n Roses and be the 1st single off the album. They need a " Welcome to the Jungle " to annouce thier presence more than a SCOM right now.

 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Then release " Better " or " The Blues " as the 2nd single. Axl loves " There Was A Time " though and I can see a video for it more than likely. If theres 3 singles I can see it flowing like that .

 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Plus has anyone looked the last Billboard chart ? To say " Rock is D.O.A " right now is a very foolish statement.

1# : Red Hot Chillapeppers

3# : Tool

7# ?: The Raconters

10# : Pearl Jam


 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Thats 4 albums in the top 10 currently. Rock can sell if its done right. The world evolves. Those who liked Backstreet Boys in 1999-2000 will grow and want more substantial music years later. ?:smoking: ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

rhcp "dani california" is #6 on billboard hot 100 right now...

honestly i dont think "better" is radio friendly...nor is it one of my fav new gn'r songs, i like the part about 2:30 minutes in, but the beginning and end are lame to me...i don't understand why it seems to be so popular on the gn'r boards.

catcher in the rye is "pop" and could be a radio hit on the cd version maybe

twat is also, probably a hit on rock radio, prolly not cross over, because of the length

but "the blues" is probably the best shot at hot 100 of the new songs...at leat thats what i think

but the best is yet to come i still believe

TWAT needs a new chorus. Like... Really need a new chorus.

You still haven't answered the question from before. All you're doing is critizing what we've heard (Better and now TWAT) and saying they're not "pop" enough to be successful on radio.

So it brings back the question; what do you think would be? Are you saying they need a song that sounds like Nickelback and everything else on the radio to be popular?

first off, this is a sweet thread :hihi:

now on to my opinions...

Better--- it is my favorite of the new songs, i cant get enough of it, however IMO there is no way this will hit the charts. I just can not see it happening.

IRS---- will be a favorite for GNR fans, but not from the mainstream.

TWAT---- im not quite sure yet, this might be a breakthough, maybe not.

CITR---- its gonna be big, but not HUGE.

The Blues----will be the most popular of the new songs to the general public... probually going to be a hit on the mainstream also.

Chinese Democracy- this song is one of my favorites for sure! i love it but its not the kind of song that would be a big hit, we'll see when we get the studio version.

Theres more but im done....

Who agrees? who doesnt? :crying:

A powerful ballad, sure they need that.  Some catchy choruses, yes.  A pop song, get the fuck out of here.  The world does not need a Axl/Justin Timberlake collaboration.  Rock is back or at least on its way back.  Just remember, this is coming from a kid who thinks that BuckFerry has the album of the year....nuff said.

No. I think "Better" is an awesome song. I love it.
I'm just not naive enough to believe that it will be the next "Hollaback Girl" as far as radio play go.

There is no way anyone can accurately predict the commercial success of a song. It could be a surprise hit, or a huge flop. We just have to wait and see.

Are you fucking retarted or can you not read?
I said a pop song as in Radio friendly... doesn't have to an actual "pop, teeny bobber" song.

Just something radio friendly like Sweet Child O' Mine was.

I don't think CD "needs" anything, especially a "pop song".  Everytime a fan says what Axl "should do" or "he has to blah blah blah" or CD and Guns "need to" do this and that I just roll my eyes.  Not pointing out anyone in particular, but some of the comments people make sound like they came from biz suits at some record company who have never even been to a GNR concert.  CD doesn't need anything - it just needs to ROCK AND FUCKING ROLL.  IT NEEDS TO KICK MAJOR ASS and shake shit up the way AFD did.  The reason Grunge was able to take over was b/c record execs and biz suits kept telling rock bands "what they needed" just to sell more records. 

AFD didn't conform to the mainstream, it BECAME the mainstream.

The reason rock has flat lined is b/c people stopped caring about the music and more about how to get their song on the radio and how high they'd chart.

how do we know they don't already HAVE a "pop" song for the album?

Ok...I didn't even read all the threads posted; because I didn't need too.  It is Guns n' Roses so don't worry about a fucking radio friendly song bc after hearing the leaks it sounds like the old (enough) GNR.  Any casual fan wouldn't be able to tell the difference.  And DJ's across the world are salvating over the new material.  Even if they have their compliants...they will play the shit out of this album.

The Blues will be a huge hit if it's released as a single, on rock and mainstream radio.  Better will also be a big hit.  They should release two singles before the album, for rock radio and a more pop friendly song.  The Blues and Better, just based on their sound and having the name Guns N Roses attached will get airplay on rock and mainstream radio, although The Blues is probably the most viable surefire radio hit they have right now.  It has everything that made November Rain a hit but a shorter runtime

GNR will produce the goods..... wait and see  ;)

better is the kind of song that may be able to get to the number 1 spot in the uk now, rock is making a come back

What?? Better is THE MOST radio friendly out of all the new songs.

Thats exactly the point I think of when I hear Better. It's got nothing to do with being "naive" or any other insult thrown out regarding people who think Better will be a hit. It has to do with the quality of music and whether people will come to it or it will come to people, ya know?

well I was in the pub last night watching England lose!!!

 >:(

anyway went to the pub straight from the gym had IPOD ?on me, the lads were taking the mick out of me saying GNR are well past it, made them listen to better, they couldnt beliveve it was GNR. most said it was well good and different which I thought was a good thing, and asked when the album was coming out!!!

 : ok:

Chinese Democracy needs a pop song...

what ever  ;)

The problem is, radio stations have a habit of missing off the beginging of a song followed by talking over the end part as well as fading the song out. Better needs to be played from the start to the end as the into makes way for the high contrast stuff that cuts in about 20 seonds after the song starts.

I don't listen to radio these days. I check the charts out on the web and downdown the singles to check them out. I keep the ones i like. I tend to buy albums opposed to singles anyway.

Catcher in the Rye is as pop as pop can be, it was practically lifted from the Beatles songbook you dimwits.  ;)

good point !!!

 ;D

How about a release date? 

Maybe that's what Chinese Democracy needs : ok:

thanx for stating the obvious  :hihi:

but who on this board lidtens to mainstreem radio??

Well, here in Belgium radio stations are usually targetted at demographics instead of being tied to a particular genre. So we don't have "classic rock radio" or "hip hip" radio stations. So I guess you could say I listen to mainstream radio (in the car).

I just wanted to say that I also think Better will be a huge hit. A great radio song. I have four children 16,13,11 and 6. The oldest three all love this song and all have put this on their ipods. I see them all walking around singing this song , even my 6 year old. These are the gunners of tomorrow. Bless their little hearts! I love seeing my kids enjoy Guns as much as me.

My nieces are the same way. I gave it to my oldest niece (she's 21) and all of them down to the 12 year old are listening to it now. My wife even loves the song and she's definately a "Sweet Child" type of GNR fan!

better is a good pop rock song, that should be fine..

We'll hold you to that!  : ok:

dapoop, there is a hige difference between the words pop and radio friendly.  Get a fucking clue there in teenage wasteland.

Dont'cha sometimes wish there was really a way to hold people to shit like that??

I'm sure we could find a way...  :yes:

Explain.

Better would be a hit on rock charts no doubt, but da_pope is talking about a crossover hit.? We haven't heard that yet.? Better would have the same type of impact a "Slither" would have.? Rock albums are doing good on the album charts, so Chinese Democracy could debut at #1... but what he is saying is that GN'R needs a song that can get mass appeal and get in the Top 10 on the Hot 100.? If that happened, then the album could STAY in the Top 10 for a year or so (like Green Day, like Mariah Carey, etc.).? Otherwise it has its run and fades away (like Velvet, like Audioslave, etc.).

There is a huge difference between mass appeal and your friends saying "Cool, when does the album come out?" to keep a conversation going.

Also, if the band has a song that is actually capable of climbing the Hot 100 charts, it gets the band's name out there to the point where the public will pay more attention to their NEXT single, which could be a lot harder or different from what's generally on the radio and help to change what people want from music.? A crossover hit like this will help to make a wider audience curious about the whole album and discover the songs that are less radio-friendly (but possibly better songs).

NO there isnt. Its the same thing.   A POP song is a POPular song, meaning a song that is radio friendly.

To me there is a vast difference.  When I hear the word "pop" I hear that song has no balls.  SCOM was a popular song but it was blues based and IMO had some balls.  Radio friendly, sure.  Crossover appeal, I can agree with, but not pop.

better could be a hit if you took out the middle part ie "i never wanted you to be.."

I personally love those parts BUT the average radio listener is going to change the channel at that point... I hope they have more radio friendly tune in the wings.

 I used to work on the Radio. On more than one occasion I felt what songs would make the charts and what songs wouldn't. I wanted to start playing two songs on my show. Both times My Boss said No Go because they wern't on the charts and he didn't think they would be. He then said... however if they do make the charts, then I could put them in the rack and the station would start playing them. I could tell that he was absolutely certain that these songs would never make it anywhere near the charts. Well four weeks later, I'm flipping through Billboard magazine and they they were. Both listed at HOT PICKS and both on the charts. So I walked into his office with a big grin and told him. His reaction was priceless. Total Shock. He look liked his best friend has just been shot. Needless to say I personally made sure those two songs were instantly put in the rotation.

 Moral of the story. 'THE BLUES" is going to be the Big Radio hit if the day comes where this stuff is released. I can almost Guarantee it.  : ok:
 

Thank You!
Fuck... I was thinking that there were no logical thinkers on this site. Everyone think what Axl does will automatically be #1 on everything.

Guns only had #1 hit ever. November Rain didn't even hit #1 and that was back in rock's hayday.

It's EXTREMLEY difficult for a hard rock band to have a popular mainstream hit.

yea and Sweet Child went #1 by accident.....I think it was a combo of the video, Axl's dance and Slash's solo
than after Sweet Child WTTJ started to get played alot after it was largely ignored

can't wait.

Axl needs a "Hey Ya" is what you're trying to say. 

For those who
Thats why Godsmack, Disturbed, and a few others debuted at number one eh? Rock isn't dead.

#1 singles don't mean the same thing they did years ago. With downloading now it's a useless chart. Radio friendly doesn't even mean the same thing with the advent of satellite radio. the singles chart was made for pussy bands that can't fill an albums worth of material. GnR is better then that.

"Hey Ya" is an awesome song  ;D

I'm with da pope on this I honestly don't think Better would do that well on mainstream radio, it's a tough one to call and if it did well it may be more due to the name of the band than the song. I really love Better but there's been a very mixed response to it when I've played it to people, my girlfriend liked but two of my friends who are into rock music didn't they thought it was ordinary and were both like wtf? when the synth kicked in at half way.

If Better is released as a single and goes to number one I'd be delighted, I just wouldn't be surprised if it didn't.

I disagree that if the original guns reformed and released a song it wouldn't get in the top 5 though, I'm certain it'd go straight to number 1 ?: ok:

If the original Guns got back together I wouldn't even care if they release a single.

As in you'd just be so happy to see them back together, or you don't give a shit about the old band reforming?

they played lordi on the radio the other day so their is hope! : ok: