Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Recent news: the National Security Agency has been collecting data on who calls whom in the US and international calls, affecting tens of millions of Americans, in order to discern patterns  that terrorists  may use to contact one another.  One government official stated that if tens of millions of Americans are involved, we have  already lost the war on terrorism (this ignores  the fact that terrorism  is a means to end, not the actual enemy). Anyway, this practice blatantly violates US law on privacy. President Bush (see my thread on Bushisms) stated that the government is  not trolling or phishing (as if he knows what these terms mean). So what do you think? Is the US government  violating the law, and should it be collecting data on domestic phone  calls?

police have been collecting data on domestic phone calls ever since they have had the ability to do so..

Bush is using it as another angle on the war on terrorism..

Clinton used it for economic espionage!!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/19/114807.shtml

go read that!

You sound surprised..

Post something that reports that from a non right wing source..............

Besides, you ain't answering the question.

Yes it is illegal.

Karl Rove also was indicted today for lying. The whole house of cards is falling down.

ahh but it does fall in a grey zone..... because they actualy dont listen to the calls..... they track call history patterns. and they dont have the name on the number.... now granted its not hard to figure that out at all but still..... it leaves personal info out of it unless it matches a call pattern that they are looking for. then technically if they want to listen to future calls they have to go b4 a judge to get premission to wire tap a domestic to domestic call.

if you think they are tapping every call made in the US your insane..... the data storage and processing power required is not feissable. think about it this way... average phone call is about 5 -6 mins.... say the avg number of calls you make a day is..... 10. thats 50-60 mins a day. We will say the us pop is 300 million thats 15,000,000,000 - 18,000,000,000 mins a day. the average size of a 5 min wav file is about 30MB so thats 108,000,000,000 MB a day!

Granted if you take into account programs that filter for certain spoken words you could kill that by a huge amount. but if you have people talking in code you have to record it all...... if you killed calls to say 911, to companies that pass security checks for what ever reason... blah blah you call cut that down....but seriously it is far too much to record every damn call, and thats not even looking at processing power required to encode all of this.

I just find that the media takes too much creative licence on some info and generates a story that is not not true but only part of it.... they slectively remove information to create a shock and awe headline and story.

Couldnt agree with you more!


So would you then say that Clintons Echelon was illegal then? I mean hmm lets just bipass the constitution.. and allow the Brits to collect domestic Info on Americans and then buy it from them!!

Oh yea and when a CIA official comes out and says that Clinton used Echelon to spies on other politicians.. hes a liar.. but when a CIA official comes out and says Bush did this bla bla blam, hes a godsend!!

I agree too. And sadly, this is done by the media over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Yep, welcome to propaganda. It's everywhere.

Not only is the NSA program NOT illegal, some of the journalists who have revealed many of the details about the program are skirting very close to the "go to prison" line.

just heard that 64 percent of the U.S. have no problem with the NSA.. intelligence gathering!

Personally, I could give a shit if they know who I'm calling and even if they somehow listen in. And i'm sure they could give a rats ass about my weekend plans or when I call in for movie showtimes or when I call my mom. Simple, who cares exept those who have something to hide?

I hope they didn't listen in on my call to Osama.....I mean my momma!

I will go ahead and speak on the behalf of Orwell and say:  "big brother is everywhere and I told you so."

A Senator I heard speak on the matter said if millions of American are working with Al Queda then we have lost anyway.  This Cartel has no regard for law and the rights of US citizens.

As long as they aren't listening in on everyone's calls, it's not as bad.  However, how long will it be until they find some way to do that?  Allegedly, if you say FBI, CIA, NSA, DEA, or Secret Service over the telephone, a recorder will click on.  Not sure about the validity of that, just heard it happens.

As for the "well, you shouldn't care unless you have something to hide" crap, there are plenty of things they could nail a person on if they tapped everyone's phone.  What if a woman was living with an abusive husband and told a friend about it and the friend said he or she would kill the guy?  Or a family member of a cancer patient saying he's going to buy some marijuana to help the suffering patient?  Both are crimes under the law, but in these cases, aren't they ethically alright?  And yet, if/when the phones get tapped, bam, they'll have the police tearing down their doors.

It's good that they aren't tapping the phones, but how much longer will it be until they are?

So, I guess nobody here feels they have a right to privacy except for me and SLCPunk.

It's not a matter of whether or not we have something to hide. It's a matter of our rights as citizens of this country.

I do believe htis is illegal.  How much are we going to let this Bush Cartel get away with in the name of supposedly protecting us?  Every time they get into a pickle they cry wolf or terror in this case.  A poll said 64% of American agreed with this practice.  That is a sad commentary on our society and shows just how ill-informed the public truly is.

I say we boycott the phone companies that allowed their info to be used.

So when some1 is calling out of country and there dialing a number that is a know Terrorist!! lets say that call is going to last 3 mins  not nearly enough time.. to get a warrant.. the program needs to be updated.. simple as that! but fuck lets not get that call!

It's the same old shit with you brody. Whenever someone challenges your precious "Bush", you mention the word: "Terrorist."

It's like you only think in black and white.

Yes im sorry Mark.. I shouldnt defend in what i believe.. ok i give up! Everyone I am a Nazi, Biggot, White Supremicist, Wife Beating, Ignorant, Capatalist, Isolated, Racists,  War Mongerer, Liar, Crook and Asshole!! Im sure mark can throw in a few others there for ya! Mark you need to learn that others have different opinions then you do! My veiws may not be right in your mind, but to me they are... and I have that right to have that view.. as you do also..

And yet, on the front cover of USA Today were quoted statistics that 51% of Americans DISAGREE with it.

Now they can't both be true, can they?

in an odd way yes they can be both right. its a poll.... depends on the question that was asked

the title for this thread is a little misleading because big brother isn't really listening phone calls, rather looking at the call patterns.

if this is what takes to stop a terrorist from murdering people then i could give two shits on if its legal or not. i mean do you actually care if the government is listening to what you were shopping for at the mall today ? probably not. so lighten up.

It amazes me how many people seem shocked that this is happening..... :rofl:
The US government has been doing it forever...
I have no problem with it..,

Shit you can download GOOGLE EARTH and look at anywhere in the world, what do you think they (gov't)have!

I find it amazing that people are willing to flush their civil liberties down the toilet because W has told them it is a way to "fight terror."

The government can also go into your home without a search warrant and without you even knowing about it. They can also listen to your phone calls.

Somebody quick........rush on and tell me how free we are.

Yes, the level of ingnorance in this country is scary.  We are not as free as we think we are.

Yeah, those black helicopters flying over my house are really starting to freak me out.  I just hope Jack Bauer doesn't appear at my front door....  ::)

Some of us don't think having our liberties taken away from us is a joke..........