Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Last two dates go on sale April 21, 2006 at 10:00AM.

Capacity : approx. 2500

Venue web site (http://www.mcstudios.com/newsite/hammersteinBallroom.asp)

Map (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?lat=40.7528&lon=-73.9949&scale=10000&icon=x)



Board members attending: Amari2677, Barbie567, billsguy, classicgunsfan, cock-a-roach.soup., Cousin It, Crashdiet, cyllan, directionality, GeorgeSteele, GnFnR87, GNR Estranged,? Groovie In VT, Hammer1, HannaHat, illusionone, jazjme, JennaSide, Jimmer Jammer, kbt24, kunzerd, LittleFly, Matt a real fan, mccoygnr, mikegiuliana, moondance_1, MR.BROWNSTONE, Nightfall, nothingman, rhiad, sandman, smeagol2124, snead hearn, WAR41?

---

Pre-show party info:

When: May 12th, 14th, 15th, and 17th.
Where: Mustang Harry's [www (http://www.mustangharrys.com/)]? [map (http://www.mustangharrys.com/map.html)] (about 5 minutes walking distance from Hammerstein Ballroom).
Ages: All ages

GN'R music from noon-5:30 pm on all dates before the Guns N Roses show.

More info: Here (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=29240.msg551557#msg551557)


After show parties:

Stitch
37th Street between 7th & 8th Avenue (2 minutes walking from Hammerstein)
21+
No cover, no dress code
http://www.stitchnyc.com

All 4 nights

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Photos of people attending are posted in this thread:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=28890.0

---

Transport links:

MTA New York City Transit (http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/)

John F. Kennedy International Airport - JFK (http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/jfkframe.HTM)

LaGuardia Airport (http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/lgaframe.HTM)

Newark Liberty Airport (http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/ewrframe.HTM)

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/jarmo

I will be there Wednesday night. Thanks to all for the updates friday as the show was going on. Just when I thought that i couldn't be more pumped up--I read in that review that 'something special" will be going down on Wed.  see you there, Gary
P.S.--I had a shirt made that I will be wearing--olive green with black collar and sleeves--says AXL'S BACK--GNR 2006 NYC--hammerstein ballroom--all in Chinese style lettering---plz tell me if this is corny--

I'm going to the show. Gonna be huge...

i'll be at this show its gonna be fucking swwwweeeet!!!!

this threads are going to explode with posts, for sure, again and again and again  : ok:

I have a ticket for this show, I just have to get to NYC now...? ?: ok:

thanks to all for the information provided while I lurked.

I can't wait.

Jarmo, you can also add me to that list of people attending the may 17th show.

Add my name to the Wed 17 show.

THE FINAL NIGHT.

It's goin off. All or nothing. Say what needs to be said. Play the songs that need to be played.

Take it freakin out, up, down, all around. Mop the goddamn freakin' floor.

I totally and humbly want to thank all the other boardsters and Jarmo big time. Reading through the past few days at Casa de HTGTH, it's been unreal. BIG FUCKING THANKS.  : ok:

Everyone: be safe and have a blast at the gig! Ain't no party like a GNR party, cuz a GNR party KICKS ASSSSSSS!

I'm going to this show.... see you all there!!

Hi all

Could someone help a few fans out in this. We would surely like to get ourselves t-shirts with hammerstein dates on the back (in the "here today....gone to hell type text) but we live in Finland and can't come to the show. So if there is some nice fellow gnr fan who could help us, please, dont hesitate to contact me.  Thanks already :)

Friday's show was so awesome I had to go again. So I scored six tickets for me and my friends Wednesday!

i'm also going, i'm sure it'll be great!

I'm going to rest up for this one, it should be extra special.. I'm hoping for izzy..

hopefully the will call window moves quickly as ticketbastard lost my tix >:(

I can't wait, but man... I'm going to be so incredibly depressed when this show is over...  this week has been an absolute dream for me, and after wed night, it'll be over  :'(

Hi, I need everyone's help here.  I decided to join this forum after having gone to the Sunday night show.  I was the very first person in line (got there at 11:30PM the night before), so some people on the board may know me because they kept asking if I was from "Here Today Gone To Hell".  I was standing and talking with people from Providence (sorry, forgot your names LOL), Missouri, a guy from Maryland and some other dude.

I'd like to track down those people just to say hi, but I also need some help.  Is anyone going to Wednesday's show (the 17th)?  My dilemma is this.  I bought my shirt at the end of the show because I wanted to make sure I was dead center.  I ended up not buying the design I wanted.  I wanted to buy the design with the old and new GNR logos, with the hand written dates on the back, but they only had those left in Size XL.  I need one in either a Medium or Large.

Can anyone, ANYONE please buy me this shirt in either a size Medium or size Large and I will pay them back?  I can either meet you after the show, or I can pay for you to mail it to me?

Please, if anyone can find it in their hearts to help me, I'd greatly appreciate it.  Please send me a PM if you care to help.

Thanks again and rock on,
~ Vinny

don't worry, you'll have a great memories, new friends and hopefully lots of boots and pics :-* To see a band 4 times could take many many years, we did it in one week....

can't wait to see eevryone, please stop by the pre party, lets have a great time again.. :beer:

I'll be there.  Taking my brother as a graduation gift.  Ain't I a thoughtful bastard?  ;)

I've got Mezz1 tix.  Any idea when I should get there?  I'm aiming for front row.  I was thinking noon should do it just fine.

^ you can probably pull it off even later than that... that's pretty early

^ Thanks, dear.  : ok:

i was at the show on monday, had mezz2 tix, got online around 330, was probably one of the first 50 people in the ballroom, pretty much could pick out any seat i wanted

yeah, a friend of mine had mezz seats, got there at 4:15-4:30ish and had front row

did you have the gnr bandana on yesterday

I figure I'll step off occasionally and let some neighbors hold a spot while I grab lunch and the like.  Thanks again for your input, folks. 

never mind that, how about the gnr skirt :love:

I've worn the same thing every night. pink bandana, rink GNR shirt, black mini skirt with a GNR bandana wrapped around my waist.  I think I might wear jeans tonight, though. I woke up this morning with a really sore throat and I feel kinda weak - it won't stop me, but I figure I better keep warm while in line...

I'll be there again tonight.  Front row of course. I've got my friend waiting in line since 10am!  Cheers to all of you who I've already met.

fri night i had mezz 1, got inside at 10:15-10:30 pm and got second row, mon got in same time and had flooe seats and was up front center about 3 people deep, no problem getting up there :beer:

Yeah, I have a feeling most of the early goers are those w/floor tix.  As it stands now, I'll be there around 2.  Hopefully front row center in mezz1  : ok:  Have fun tonight, everyone!

Front row center in Mezz1 is reserved for people with green wrist bands... but you can get pretty close too it. The other vip sections are the balconys where you need purple/white wrist bands...

Once the guns starts though, they don't even really enforce the green wrist band thing though in mezz1. But, they still check for the wrist band if you try to go to the vip areas on the sides.. like where Kravitz was sitting.

If I'm in Mezz2 tonight, any chance in hell of getting my hands on a purple/white wristband, & any advice on how to do it?   :peace:

i asked one of the bouncers in the mezz2 on monday, and they said you need a special ticket, i didnt really think they knew what they were talking about thouhg

Jennaside...were you standing at the backstage entrance, after the show, on Sunday night?  I was there too!  I think I saw you, or at least there was a girl there with a pink bandana.  We need a special signal for members!

I don't want to get there until close to 11, even though I have floor tickets.  I don't want to see BFMV again.  So, I guess I'll miss Mustang Harrys, unless anyone will be there that late?  I'm planning on taking a nap so I can go to the after party at Stich.  I was headed to Stitch on Sunday after the show, but got hung up backstage waiting for Axl to show.  I stood in the cold with about 15 other fans...and finally he came out.  He walked right by us with barely a glance.  It made me mad.  Kinda changed my perspective of him.  But Ron Thal and Sebastian Bach both stopped to talk to us.  That is cool.  They are cool guys.

I'm going to get there around late like around 10 and try to find a ticket

After the show, go downstairs to where the bathrooms are BELOW the main floor, only shot you have is if you meet maybe a guy or something that has them and he can get you back there. If you were a dude and didn't have the wrist band, you had NO CHANCE of getting back there, if you were a girl they were letting some without back into the after-party. I have no clue if anyone was pulling off getting into the vip section of the mezz1 or floor without the band......

We went downstairs to the bathrooms before walking out on Monday, & I saw a few people standing around & wondered what was going on - guess I should have stuck around.? ?:(

is this the official thread for tonight??
 i need to know, what?s going on tonight   : ok:

yes sir

anybody knos if there?ll be people in this shoes giving some updates? hopefully, cause that?s so cool., i suppose maybe sixx-roses site again?

praying for some Izzy?s  :smoking:

I really hope you guys get something unique tonight even though I am not there!!!! :beer:

Have fun!!!!! : ok:

leaving now for NYC...201-988-4027 if you need updates....Gary

did they open the doors?

I cant put into words how jealous I am of your fuckers at the show tonight!! I was at Friday, and Monday....and could have been there tonight, it was just bad timing....I feel like im missing out. I work 1 block from the hammerstein and was getting lunch over that way today, and had a really guilty feeling come over me because I wasnt gonna be there with Uncle Axl  & you guys!! Enjoy yourselves...I know I would be! Bastards!!!!!!!!

any updates from tonights show so far???

War41 has just informed me IZZY IS AT THE SHOW!!!!

can anyone else confirm (not that I think he is lying)

God I hate myself.

BLABBERMOUTH.NET

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=52419

IZZY STRADLIN Takes Stage With GUNS N' ROSES In New York City - May 18, 2006

Former GUNS N' ROSES guitarist Izzy Stradlin took the stage tonight (May 17) with GNR for the song "Think about You" at the Hammerstein Ballroom in New York City.

GUNS N' ROSES frontman Axl Rose made various references to Stradlin during their May 15 show at the Hammerstein Ballroom.

Tonight's concert is the last of four New York City shows to be performed by the current lineup of GUNS N' ROSES. These are the only U.S. appearances scheduled so far for the group, which counts singer W. Axl Rose as its sole original member. BULLET FOR MY VALENTINE was the opening act for all NYC dates.

GUNS N' ROSES 2006 touring lineup:

Axl Rose - Vocals
Robin Finck - Guitar
Ron Thal - Guitar
Richard Fortus - Guitar
Tommy Stinson - Bass
Dizzy Reed - Keyboards
Chris Pittman - Keyboards
Brian "Brain" Mantia - Drums

Uggggggggg.  Talk about wishin I were there.  I should've known this would happen.  DAMMIt!!!

Congrats to all you lucky bastards who got to see this. 

Izzy was, there!!!!!!!!!!! it happened !!!!!! couldn?t be happier!!!!!! please star posting your reviews as soon as you can people, thank you in advance.

05.18.2006

Izzy Stradlin joined Guns N' Roses for free songs in Hammerstein Ballroom, New York City yesterdey night (05.17.2006).

The Setlist:

Welcome To The Jungle
It's So Easy
Mr.Brownstone
Live And Let Die
Think About You (with Izzy Stradlin)
Robin Finck Solo
Sweet Child O'Mine
Better
Knockin' On Heaven's Door
Dizzy Reed Solo
Blues
Bumble Solo
You Could Be Mine
November Rain
Out Ta Get Me
Richard Fortus & Robin Finck Solo
My Michelle (with Baz)
Rocket Queen
Patience (with Izzy Stradlin)
Maddy
I.R.S.
Richard Fortus solo
Nightrain (with Izzy Stradlin and Kid Rock)
Chinese Democracy
Robin Finck Solo
Paradise City

oh god - how amazing that Izzy played !   :o  tell us more, NYC bods!!!!!!
hope he feels like popping over to London in 3 weeks time....  :peace:

i'm sure its just a one time thing but its great to see the two founding members and once enemies perform together again. its a shame they all couldn't find a way to get along. i bet thats why izzy was crying during patience.

WHAT??????????????????

alleluiah

i'm all emotional now.

....unbelievable.  Congratulations to everyone there to see it.  Now start posting those pictures and videos!!

Yea I second that. 

What?

Why doesn't Izzy just join in permantly?

He could use the money I would say. I know he has money, but he's not "rich" per say anymore.

And it would be good to have 2/5 of the original lineup in there.... I say drop someone and let Izzy in. :yes:

I dont think Izzy wants that kind of life.  He left GnR and seems happier persuing his own dreams, rather than a big-scale collective - i think it's great that he's cool to show up and do a GnR show, he also did a VR show 2 years ago (a couple of songs I think).  From what I've heard he is happier doing that than committing to big band/big stadium/big tour stuff.  It's just not for everyone I guess.

guess everyone partied pretty fcn hard last night in NYC - bring on the reviews guys!!!!! ;D

you really think it would be fair to anyone in current lineup?

this was torture lol, i live in nyc and me and like 10 friends have been trying to get tickets and i couldnt get any and i missed like the best shows. ive been at gnr shows during use your illusions but i really wanted to go this time. i hope when he tours in the states in the fall that i get to see them. but im so glad izzy was there that mustve been amazing to see them on stage together again im so happy their talking again!

No he doesn't need the money, cause of songwriting royalties he's done very well, 2nd place right after Axl.
And hell he can even live with the money that AFD alone generates right now... even Steven can and does.

But it's not a question about money, Izzy will never ever join a band again GN'R included. He likes his freedom to much.

ARGGG!!!

Izzy AND kid Rock played!?!?!?!

#$@##@!!!!!!!!!!!!

I went to Friday and Sunday shows but I had to work on Wednesday so I sold my tix!!!!!!!!!!!!

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!

 :rant:

Great show.  Tons of surprises.  It was amazing.  I was pissed when he didn't show up in philly, but this made up for it.  They played until about 2am.  Kid Rock and Izzy.  It was awesome!

i cant believe i missed this, i went friday and monday but still feel like i missed out on a lot!! that was unbelievable that izzy played...i think it was cool to have kid rock out there, hes very talented although some might not think, when he gets to his "rock" side, hes very cool to watch!! cheers to izzy baby!! :beer:

A nice touch at the end of the show - after Paradise City, the house lights stayed dim, and after about a minute-and-a-half the stage lights came on and the entire band (along with Bach and Kid Rock... no Izzy - Axl actually said "Where's Izzy?") came out and stood in a line arm-in-arm and waved while Axl thanked the crowd.

Is anyone else kindof sad now? I wonder when he'll return to the U.S.... I can't wait to see another show.

 :'(

That was definitely a nice touch at the end....Feeling very proud of that band at the moment.

izzy had left already.... He signed my ticket

Well That was amazing, the pre party was great the show was great, and the wait after was great

I got my ticket signed by izzy he looked just like springsteen, evan seinfeld (bio hazard OZ tv show jaz hoyt) Kid rock signed my ticket, bbfoot got another big hug and signed my ticket.. Sebation bach came over and talked waving a light saber

The highlight though was when axl finally came out close to 3am, he was running with the light saber and came over to were we were waiting and shook our hands... He looked so happy, and shaking his hand wa s a great moment...


just a great time great night..

lucky bastard!! :hihi:

yes I am, I waited a while... All those pics you see on the street with bach bbfoot and axl running around by the semi was where I was where I was... The guy who dresses like axl got brain's sticks...

Where are the pictures ???

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8565/axl12hh.jpg)

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/5352/axl27mr.jpg)

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9190/baz8pq.jpg)

(http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3738/bumble15qo.jpg)

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2412/bumbl23mp.jpg)

Thanks to WOJC (Bumblefoot) over at Wfigs.

And Binge_And_Slash from mygnr.

there has to be tons more....

Wow!!

Amazing !!!

Ticket signed by Izzy!!!

:D:D:D:D

Got any pics of Mr.Isbell? (Izzy)?

:)

Jonesy

Whats up everyone....I posted this on the other thread too....I was about 5 feet away from the stage last night....I got about 10 or 12 pics, but the cool thing is I taped "Patience" on my PDA...the audio is barely audible, but the video is pretty damn good..definitly can see Izzy playing and Axl sings a lot of the song right in front of me..Id like to get it out so people can see it, but I cant get it to work...works fine on mobile media player, wont work on my computer....anyone wanna see if they can reformat it?

What format is it n' that?

please email me joneslloyd@hotmail.com

I have a Portable Media Center.... so MAy be able to help...

Cheers
Jonesy

he came out there was about 5-10 people out there, people with afd, he was gone in  second, few photos happened.. he left before the show was over..  great night meeting izzy and axl

Ahh ok

Still, VERY cool you met the guy  8)

GREAT, HISTORIC Show........they played from about 11:20 pm until almost 2 am
just some highlights:
I was about 12 deep from center stage, WTTJ, crowd pushes forward, forced to jump in unison, beverages flying.

after LALD (4th song), AXL starts talking, "drugs", "partner in crime", ya know it must be........and then "Mr. Izzy Stradlin'  "............great song "Think About You"--only night they played it...Izzy does look like Springsteen...headband..short hair...deep cheeklines...occasional smile..stayed mostly in the background and played some rhythm...awesome to see him on stage. He came back to play on "Patience" afer AXL said "This is an Izzy song". I DID NOT see a tear. Just mixed emotions. Izzy also came back for "Nighttrain". He really didn't come forward much and had small guitar parts on all three songs.

"BETTER" was my highlight and seemed to be the signature song of this version of GNR. It is exactly like the leaked demo except the intro (played by Robin) is longer and not muffled, sounded cool. They all seem to play that song with pure joy, more than any other. The heavy part just blew me away, guitarists swaying side by side during the riff, AXL dances to the techno breakdown, then goes into a pose and his eyes roll in the back of his head. ALL signs point to 1st single. AWESOME!!

Really liked KOHD, was a different version. More mellow than on UYI. Axl said "Hopefully we will get around to releasing this one and put more money in the Bob Dylan fund." another "NEW GNR" moment that I hope to hear again.

AXL had a written list of people to thank that he kept going back to.

Seeing the two most powerful Hard Rock vocalists in history on the same stage doing "My Michelle". Awesome. Credit Baz for doing all 4 nights.  ("Subhuman Race" is a severely underrated CD)

AXL joked how people tell him to put out a record, "funny how some things slip your mind"

I think I saw you last night on the left side front row and sunday night right side with a girl with blonde hair?


I'm also kinda sad cause after four nights I wish I could see them more. ?:( Can't wait for the us tour. I will be at every one on the east coast this time around. ?:beer:



Last night show was amazing. In line I meet a member from this board. Nice guy but don't rember his user name. I know he is from Iowa. ?

The show did not start to 11:23p.m. and did not end to 1:57p.m. I was on the floor right side 2nd row. It was great when Izzy came out for I think About You. It was cool they did a song they did not play the other three nights. It's nice to know Axl and Izzy are freinds again. Izzy did look very happy to be on stage for three songs. Axl said something like maybe I should make record. ?:hihi: Axl also asked how many are here tonight more than more than once? He said, you are some die hard mother fuckers. he also had a list of people he wanted to thank. During Nightrain they play about 30 sec and Axl said, something like we are not no fucking Britney Spears we did it twice in rehearsal. So they started it again and they Kid Rock came out after that. I like how they play CD before Pardaside City. ? ?

......review cont'd......

Stinson seeing all the phones and cameras said "This is LIVE not MEMOREX motherfuckers", AXL laughed

Any questions about AXL's voice were answered for me. They did "Rocket Queen" deep into the set and he completely nailed it. Best version I have ever heard vocally.

"Nighttrain" didn't sound right at first and AXL yelled "Stop, stop" then went to Brain and said "We rehearsed this twice"
AXL then came back toward us and said, " NOW, you REALLY know we are Guns and Roses" and restarted. And you all know by now he then introduced Kid Rock, who I think messed up some lyrics but definitely brought energy and was cool to see.

"The Blues" is a solid track, can't wait for the CD version.

"I.R.S." was slightly different from the demo, there was an added guitar part after the first verse I believe. Pretty cool tune.

hope this was helpful to somebody, Gary

P.S.--didn't mention Maddy or CD--still waiting for them to grow on me. Biggest dissapointment was no T.W.A.T.--that's a great song.

what's with the light saber???  looks like he was having fun anyway.......... : ok:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/mrvics/GUNSNROSES2006NewYorkCity026.jpg)

SUPER COOOOL :o :o FINALLY we got an Izzy pic...Thanks a lot !
Did you take it yourself Michael_Stradlin ? Or do you have more ? :hihi:

If you have anymore pics please share.

The quality is very good. 

Please let us know if/when/where you have them posted - if more.

I got some pics on a disposable cam i need to develop.  I wasn't about to sneak in my digital cam  :peace:  I was pretty close to the stage so we'll see how they turn out.

can't wait bro, I was right behind you peeing in a cup :hihi:

(http://www.rosesofvelvet.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=919.0;id=148;image)

we definitely drank enough beer!  : ok:  good times  :beer:

No, it's not my photo - GNARS from beenafix.com put it on our board but I don;t know where did he get it

damn right, I was waiting back behind hammerstein and jaz n axlsis joined me... We wondered where you were.. You missed meeting the eevryone..

another one

(http://img92.imageshack.us/img92/3350/gunsnroses2006newyorkcity0624r.jpg)

Great picture!

Just a great fuckin' picture : ok:

great pics - so cool you got to shake Axl's hand.  good on you!!!!!!!  great that axl knows how fkn happy the fans are.  You guys sound like you rockd as hard as the band did.  NYC - take a bow yourselves - you've helped this show stay on the road!

The band and Axl sounded fucking great!!  Great show, great fucking time.

Cool picture, Izzy is missing there, and it looks like that?s the moment when Axl is asking "Where?s Izzy??"   :hihi:

I met izzy outside the gig, he ran out a few songs early... Being I had seen the shows already I wanted a jump start to the back to se everyone leave...

Holy Shit, what a show!!! There was such an element of surprise in the air, we knew if anything was gonna happen, this show was the last chance. Before I talk about the show, I just want to tell everyone about this little Mexican man that was in line named Eddie. He was all of 5 foot, drunker than a skunk, spoke very sloppy English. IMagAmerica or something like that had a bunch of us chanting and singing (we sang 'Get in the Ring', 'One in a Million', and 'Paradise City'), interviewing us and stuff. He would do anything anyone told him to do, and we told him to run up to the camera and sing 'Jungle', and he did many times. This awesome guy in line, Joe, took a flyer for that site and wrote "Guns N' Roses - Today Only" on the back with eye liner and told poor Eddie that this was a show ticket. After waiting in line singing and dancing for hours, he finally whipped it out and pissed right there on the sidewalk! The cops took him to the front and was gonna arrest him, but we all started chanting "Let him go!!" and they did, but he kept trying to get back in line, fighting with security, and after they told him he had to go to the back of the line, he finally left. I'll never forget him.

About the show. It seems as if they played every song that has ever been recorded in the history of the world over the PA. But BMFV came on. They really weren't as horrible as most had them out to be, but I wouldn't really wanna see them again. The lead singer sounded like someone from Spinal Tap or something when he spoke. I was up in the Mezz2, standing at the rail by this super smokin blonde.  I had a blast watching the guys moshing below. I saw one guy in the back of the crowd slide about 10 feet when someone basically picked him up and threw him, then they picked him up and hugged him and went back to moshing.

GNR. Holy shit. I couldn't believe what I saw. It was the greatest show anyone could put on. Amazing. Axl was Axl on speed, Robin was too cool for school in his shades for the first couple of songs. Richard was all over the place, Tommy was right up there with Axl the whole time and Bumblefoot was really, really awesome. I think he fits in very well. Stand out moments for me were Jungle (Axl did the "Goddamit, I wanna watch you bleeeed!" like he did when he was fired up at MSG). It's So Easy, the crowd finally saw what we were experiencing. The moshing started. 'Better' kills live. Had some great lighting, especially during the little techno break. Izzy? Are you kidding me? The place almost blew up. 'The Blues' was fantastic. I'm not sure how I like it without the soaring guitars in the beginning, but I'll have to hear it some more. The guitars seemed a little heavier than before, but Axl's vocals were spot on. Holy crap, the place was furious when Out ta Get Me played. People were screaming and jumping like they were on fire or something. Lots of moshing and stuff. I found Robin and Richard's 'Beautiful' solo really great. They really seem to have a strong connection to one another when they play. Okay, 'My Michelle' with Baz: I've never heard anything louder in my life. It was like a freight train was 5 feet away from me. 'Patience', I think it should really be dropped, but Izzy playing was enough to enjoy it. 'I.R.S', I know a lot of people don't really like it, I thought it was fantastic. It sounds quite different. I just wish it was a little heavier live. Finck does a second solo earlier in the song now, which was pretty cool. Axl was really belting out on this one. 'Madagascar': alright, since they first played it at RIR, it's been my favorite song. I've dreamed ever since then of hearing it live, and man did they deliver. Robin does a nice new effect in the intro and a lot of his guitar parts have changed. Axl's performance was one of the best vocally, of the night, IMO. Richard did great with the solo, which is now a lot of really intenses "wah-wah's". Pretty cool, and has a new outro. Another song that was a lot heavier than it used to be. 'Nightrain' was amazing. When they started, they did the intro, Axl did the 'Loaded like a freight-train, etc.", then said "one more time" and then I saw Robin taking his guitar off and Axl said "Stop it! Stop it! We did this in rehearsal two times. Now you can see we really are Guns N' Roses." Tommy said "Yeah, this ain't no Britney Spears bullshit!". So they started again, and right before the first verse came in, Axl introduced Kid Rock and they lit it up. In the encore, they came back, a lot of strings and synths, kinda brooding. Then Robin starts the new 'Chinese Democracy' intro and man it was great. This was right up there with 'Better' as far as getting the best reaction from the new stuff (at least with the people around me). Had some really amazing lighting and video effects. 'Paradise City' was awesome as usual. Lots of confetti and explosions. Then after a minute or two, EVERYONE (minus Izzy) came out arm-in-arm and took a bow, thanking everyone. Really touching, seeing as this is the most "band like" thing they could've done. After the show, I couldn't hear nor speak, so I got some kabobs from the vendors outside the Hammerstein and went to the hotel. To anyone who says "this is not a band, they're a cover band, hired guns, etc.", watch this show. This is the greatest show you'll ever witness...

hahaha, eddie was great, i was in line with you too

wearing black shirt with the new gnr-star on it - sort of reddish hair



what a great time!

so what happened with nightrain? did brain fuck it up? could that have been a reason why he wasnt at the acoustic show?

Yes, I'm sure he was fired as soon as the show was over.  :P

Oh god... Eddie was a lot of things, but GREAT was certainly not one of them. That was just annoying... and gross. At one point he turned around while peeing and I was terrified I would get splattered. I would've killed that little drunken bum had that happened.  :rant:

I just have to chime in here and say how totally awesome this show was! ?It was worth everything! ?Axl went on late and I was annoyed, but I guess I forgot about that because the show was so damn good! ?It was just spectacular!!! ?After the show, I went to the backstage entrance, waiting for Axl to come out. ?I was so worried that he would again jump right into the car and take off. ?The car was backed up very close to the stage door and the passenger door was open, to facilitate his quick getaway. ?And when he came out, he did indeed go straight for the open car door. ?But, amazingly, he grabbed up a lightsaber and ran out toward the group of people standing to my left. ?He shook a few hands. ?I was thrilled, even though it wasn't my hand that he shook. ?I was just glad that he took a few seconds to acknowledge some fans. ?I and the people standing next to me moved out into the street, and stood next to one of the security guys. ?We were standing in the middle of the street! ?And along came a taxi! ?The security guy said to get out of the street. ?But I said, "F--- the taxi!" ?And I couldn't believe it, but the taxi stopped! ?That's right, we actually stopped a NY taxi driver! ?All for Axl baby!!!

This was the most amazing show I have ever attended and provided for one heck of an adventure.? I'm still working on the realization I drove up to New York City by myself and saw Guns and Roses play about 20 feet away from me.? When Izzy showed up, my night was perfected.


Fantastic show, definitely worth the trip, a once in a lifetime experience for me.

lol. I know, I was I think 2 people behind you in line, Jenna. I was stand right there next to Eddie when he peed. I know it was gross, but I'd never really seen anyone just pee on the sidewalk...

Who's at the far left? Chris? (Not Bumblefoot with the red hat..)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v162/no_username/Izzy2/GUNSNROSES2006NewYorkCity024.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v162/no_username/Izzy2/GUNSNROSES2006NewYorkCity025.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v162/no_username/Izzy2/GUNSNROSES2006NewYorkCity028.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v162/no_username/Izzy2/1NY3.jpg)

I went to the show on the 15th and had tickets for the 17th but gave them to a friend because I had "something else to do" on the 17th.? Sounds like I made the biggest mistake of my life? :'(? I missed out on an awesome show? :'(

The 15th did rock though and I had a great time at the preshow at Mustangs!

haah same here!

they'r mad pic : ok: : ok:

im so glad Izzy got up there, i hope he had a great time, i wanna hear it in his own words what it was like bein' up there again!!         i wanna hear what Duff n' Slash reckon too!!

Welcome to New York City. Sadly, it's not all that uncommon.
hey, the hand closest to Izzy is mine!  :hihi: I knew I was bound to get into a picture somewhere after being front row 3 times!

Anyway, I can't believe it was a week ago already. What a great closing show for the NY run...  my music-buff boss was there that night. He saw GnR in the 80's as an opening band - he was impressed by how much Axl's matured and how great the band as a whole sounded together. And he's not one to be impressed easily...

thats awersome jenna!!

What's up Jazjme?? I looked at your photos and I saw the back of my head in a few.? What's up Luigi??

NICe man!!!!!!!

great pics

so some drunk mexican pissed on the streets of nyc, I really don't believe it.. :rofl:

had 2 post this in  parts cause there's a 1000 character limit;

GOT INSIDE THE HAMMERSTEIN IN TIME 2 CATCH THE LAST 3 OR 4 NUMBERS OF OPENING ACT "BULLET 4 MY VALENTINE"...COULDN'T REALLY TELL ONE WAY OR THE OTHER IF THEY WERE ANY GOOD CAUSE IT WAS JUST 2 LOUD...WITH THE NOISE LEVEL IN THAT PLACE, UNLESS U'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE BAND'S MATERIAL, IT'S HARD 2 FOLLOW ALONG AND TELL WHAT'S BEING PLAYED...U CAN HEAR A PERFORMER'S VOICE, BUT NOT REALLY MAKE OUT WHAT HE'S SAYING...THAT WASN'T A PROBLEM WITH GNR CAUSE I KNOW ALL THE SHIT, BUT COULD BARELY UNDERSTAND WHEN AXL SPOKE 2 THE AUDIENCE :o(

SO BFMV LEFT THE STAGE AROUND 10 AND THE LONG WAIT BEGAN... FINALLY, AFTER 90 FUCKING MINUTES, THE LIGHTS GO DOWN, THE CROWD ERUPTS, AND I NEARLY SHIT CAUSE THE MASTER'S ARRIVAL IS NOW MERE MOMENTS AWAY...MUSIC STARTS, JUST A KIND OF GUITAR TONE WHICH IS BARELY AUDIBLE OVER THE CHEERS OF THE CROWD...IT'S COMPLETELY DARK, AND I CAN SORTA MAKE OUT SOME MOVEMENT ON THE STAGE...THEN A SPOTLIGHT GOES ON AND SHINES DOWN ON ROBIN, WHO'S SHED THE NINE INCH NAILS LOOK AND NOW RESEMBLES CHRIS ROBINSON...HE'S STANDING ON THE RAMP EXTENDING FROM CENTER STAGE, AND PLAYS THE OPENING "ECHO" CHORDS OF "WELCOME 2 THE JUNGLE"...BUT HE ONLY DOES THOSE 2 CHORDS OVER AND OVER, AS IF TEASING THE AUDIENCE AND MAKING US WAIT JUST A LITTLE LONGER...MY HEARTS'S FUCKING BEATING 1000MPH AND I'M GOING OUT OF MY MIND ALONG WITH THE 3000 OTHER FANS

I CAN'T EVEN HEAR MYSELF THINK THROUGH THE IMMENSE ROAR OF THE CROWD AT THIS POINT...I'M NOT SURE IF THE SPOTLIGHT DIMMED OR I JUST STOPPED NOTICING, CAUSE MY ATTENTION TURNED 2 THE SIHLOUETTE OF A LONE FIGURE SLOWLY MAKING HIS WAY FROM STAGE LEFT UP THE RAMP AND STOPPING NEAR ROBIN...THE FIGURE'S STANDING THERE LOOKING AT THE PEOPLE, I THINK ARMS CROSSED(COULDN'T SAY 4 SURE THROUGH THE DARKNESS), HEAD NODDING IN APPROVAL AS THEY GO INSANE...IT'S HIM

ALL I COULD MUSTER WAS "HOLY SHIT"...THE ROAR OF THE CROWD IMPOSSIBLY GREW EVEN LOUDER, I'M GETTING CHILLS THINKING ABOUT IT...U CANNOT BEGIN 2 FATHOM THE PURE MAGNETISM EMANATING FROM THIS MAN...I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE SAYS, THERE IS NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THAT WAS GOD STANDING RIGHT THERE ON THAT STAGE...AXL AKBAR!...AXL AKBAR!...HE COULD HAVE JUST TURNED AROUND AND WALKED OUT AT THAT MOMENT AND IT STILL WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GREATEST CONCERT IN HISTORY

BUT HE DIDN'T...HE REMAINED ABOVE HIS ADORING DISCIPLES AS ROBIN AND CO. BEGAN THE INTRO 2 "WELCOME 2 THE JUNGLE"...LIKE A ROLLER COASTER, THAT SONG STARTS SLOWLY, CLIMBING LITTLE BY LITTLE, BUILDING IN INTENSITY AS IT GOES ALONG, THE ANTICIPATION GROWING 2 A FRENZY...AXL DIDN'T DO HIS USUAL "HOWL" WITH THE MUSIC...HE JUST STOOD THERE...AND AS THE INTRO REACHED ITS PINNACLE, ALONG WITH THE NOISE FROM THE AUDIENCE, HE HIT US WITH A "DO U KNOW WHERE THE FUCK U ARE!!!!!!!!!!"...I FUCKING DIED

FINALLY THE COASTER REACHED THE TOP...AFTER ALL THE BUILD UP, THE INTRO CONCLUDING WITH ITS FINAL DRUM/GUITAR IN SYNC NOTES, THE SONG, STAGE AND AUDIENCE ALL EXPLODED LIKE PETER NORTH IN UNISON AS "WTTJ" KICKED INTO HIGH GEAR...THE PYRO WAS COOL, BUT THE BOMBS SCARED THE LIVING FUCK OUT OF ME...THROUGHOUT THE SHOW I WAS USUALLY ABLE 2 ANTICIPATE WHEN A BOMB WOULD GO OFF, AND COVER MY EARS ACCORDINGLY, BUT ONCE IN A WHILE I STILL GOT CAUGHT BY SURPRISE :o(...AND THE HEAT FROM THE FLAMES WAS INCREDIBLE, EVEN FROM WHERE WE WERE...CAN'T IMAGINE HOW HOT IT GETS ON STAGE...FUCKING HETFIELD

AXL LOOKED FANTASTIC...ANYONE WHO TELLS U HE'S HEAVY IS A LYING COCKSUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!...REMINDED ME OF ICE-T IN NEW JACK CITY, BRAIDS IN A PONY TAIL, SHADES, WEARING A BLACK SHIRT AND JEANS...SAME GEAR AS THE PREVIOUS SHOWS, WHICH LED ME 2 BELIEVE THEY WERE SHOOTING 4 SOME SORT OF VIDEO OR DVD...SAW A BUNCH OF CAMERAS THERE, SO I HOPE THAT'S THE CASE...HE STILL HAS THE VOICE, THE GREAT MOVES, EVERYTHING...I COULDN'T BELIEVE I WAS ACTUALLY THERE WATCHING HIM...I JUST COULDN'T BELIEVE IT

THE CROWD SANG "WELCOME 2 THE JUNGLE" WORD 4 WORD, AS THEY DID EVERY OTHER SONG, EXCEPT 4 A FEW OF THE NEW ONES WHICH HAVEN'T BEEN HEARD BY MOST...A LOT OF PEOPLE KNEW "MADAGASCAR" AND "THE BLUES", THOUGH...I MAY BE WRONG, BUT I THINK AXL MIGHT'VE SAID "SHA NA NA NA NA NA NA NA KNEES, KNEES" AGAIN AFTER THE SECOND VERSE, INSTEAD OF "FEEL MY, MY, MY, MY SERPENTINE"...WTTJ WAS FOLLOWED BY "IT'S SO EASY", "MR. BROWNSTONE" AND "LIVE AND LET DIE", AFTER WHICH AXL ADDRESSED THE CROWD...AS STATED EARLIER, I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS SAID, BUT I'VE READ THAT HE WAS TALKING ABOUT "SOMEONE FROM A TIME OF TRUANCY" IN HIS PAST, SOMEONE HE GOT INTO TROUBLE WITH GROWING UP AND SHIT...WHICH FITS, BECAUSE THE WORDS I DID HEAR CLEAR AS DAY WERE "LADIES AND GENTLEMAN, MR. IZZY STRADLIN" :D

IZZY ENTERED STAGE LEFT AS THE CROWD WENT BONKERS!...HE SALUTED THE FANS AS AXL APPROACHED AND THEY EMBRACED...I FUCKING MELTED...IT WAS TRULY BEAUTIFUL...THROUGH ALL THE SHIT, THESE GUYS GO BACK OVER 30YRS<333...THEY PLAYED "THINK ABOUT U", AND AS AXL SANG "OOOOH, IT WAS THE BEST TIME I CAN REMEMBER", I THOUGHT "FUCK YES"...IZZY LEFT AFTER THE SONG 2 A CHORUS OF "IZ-ZY! IZ-ZY! IZ-ZY!" FROM THE AUDIENCE

A ROBIN SOLO FOLLOWED, WHICH SEGUED INTO "SWEET CHILD O' MINE"...THAT OPENING RIFF MADE ME THINK OF SLASH...NOT IN A "I WISH HE WAS HERE" OR "I WANT THE ORIGINAL BAND 2 REFORM" WAY, CAUSE I DON'T...JUST THAT IT'S PROBABLY THE RIFF HE'S MOST IDENTIFIED WITH...BUT THAT SONG IS JUST AS MUCH AXL'S, AND AS HE REEMERGED, IT WAS ALL ABOUT HIM AGAIN...THEN CAME A SONG THAT I DIDN'T RECOGNIZE BUT KICKED TOTAL ASS...COULDN'T FOLLOW THE VOCAL LINE AS WELL, BUT THE GUITAR ROCKED...IT WAS "BETTER"...CAN'T WAIT 4 THE CD!...THEN CAME "KNOCKIN ON HEAVEN'S DOOR"(NICE INTRO WITH AXL 'OOOH OOOH'ING), A DIZZY PIANO SOLO, "THE BLUES", RON THAL SOLO(PEOPLE CALL HIM BUMBLEFOOT, BUT THAT WAS ACTUALLY THE NAME OF HIS BAND), AND "YOU COULD BE MINE"

AXL THEN SAT AT THE PIANO AND PLAYED "NOVEMBER RAIN"...ABSOLUTE MAGIC...THE WALL OF SPARKS FALLING FROM THE CEILING WAS A NICE TOUCH...NEXT SONG STARTED, POUNDING DRUMS AND A HARD RIFF...4 A SECOND IT SOUNDED LIKE SLAUGHTER'S "THE WILD LIFE", AND I WAS LIKE "WHAT THE FUCK??"...BUT IT WAS "OUT TA GET ME" AND THEY FUCKING KILLED IT!...JUST AWESOME...GREAT INTERRACTION WITH THE CROWD...FORTUS AND FINCK THEN DID DUAL SOLOS, I THINK CHRISTINA AGUILERA'S "BEAUTIFUL" WAS AMONG THE STUFF THEY PLAYED...ONLY THEY CAN MAKE THAT GARBAGE SOUND GOOD

AXL COMES BACK OUT 4 "MY MICHELLE" AND INTRODUCES SEBASTIAN BACH, WHO RUNS OVER 2 AXL AND GIVES HIM A BIG HUG...HE MIGHT'VE ACTUALLY PICKED AXL UP, COULDN'T REALLY TELL...BAS HEADBANGS LIKE CRAZY WHILE PERFORMING...SONG ENDS, BAS LEAVES, AND THEY GO INTO "ROCKET QUEEN", WHICH MADE ME SO HAPPY CAUSE THEY HADN'T PLAYED IT IN 1 OR 2 OF THE EARLIER SHOWS...AXL OCCASIONALLY READ THANK YOUS FROM A PIECE OF PAPER...THE ONES I CAUGHT WERE THE NYPD, THE HAMMERSTEIN(PRONOUNCED IT HAMMERSTEEN), AND SEBASTIAN...THERE WERE MORE

AFTER "ROCKET QUEEN", IZZY CAME BACK OUT 2 DO WHAT AXL CALLED ANOTHER IZZY SONG, WHICH WAS "PATIENCE"...MORE MAGIC...SOME HAVE SAID THEY SAW IZZY'S EYES WATER, WHICH I DIDN'T NOTICE, THANK GOD...OTHERWISE I'DVE GONE INTO FULL WOMAN MODE...HE DID SMILE ALOT, THOUGH, AND RAISED HIS ARMS HIGH IN THE AIR, SWAYING THEM SIDE 2 SIDE 4 PEOPLE 2 DO THE SAME<33..."MADAGASCAR" AND "I.R.S." FOLLOWED...DIDN'T RECOGNIZE "I.R.S." TILL I HEARD AXL SAY "FBI"...SOUNDED BETTER THAN THE FIRST TIME I HEARD IT

THEN THE BAND STARTS "NIGHT TRAIN", BUT AXL DOESN'T SING ON HIS CUE, AND JUST SAYS "STOP, STOP, STOP IT"...HE LOOKS AT BRAIN, THE DRUMMER, AND TELLS HIM SOMETHING...I CAN'T UNDERSTAND SHIT HE'S SAYING, BUT PEOPLE SAID HE WAS TELLING BRAIN THEY'D "REHEARSED THIS 3 TIMES ALREADY"...AXL THEN SAID "THIS REALLY IS GUNS' N ROSES" OR SOME SHIT 2 THE CROWD, AND THEN SOMEONE SAID SOMETHING LIKE "THIS AIN'T NO BRITNEY SPEARS BULLSHIT"...I'VE READ THAT IT WAS TOMMY WHO SAID THAT, BUT AT THE TIME I THOUGHT IT WAS AXL'S VOICE, EVEN THOUGH HIS MIC WAS DOWN(THE IMPLICATION BEING HE'D BEEN LIP SYNCHING THE WHOLE NIGHT)...SO I DON'T THINK IT WAS REALLY A SCREW UP ON BRAIN'S PART, RATHER THEY WERE JUST FUCKING AROUND

SO "NIGHT TRAIN" STARTS AGAIN AND AXL DOES THE WHOLE "LOADED LIKE A FREIGHT TRAIN, FLYING LIKE AN AEROPLANE, FEELING LIKE A SPACE BRAIN, ONE MORE TIME 2NITE"...BUT INSTEAD OF FOLLOWING IT UP WITH THE FIRST VERSE, HE SAYS "ONE MORE TIME" AND SINGS THOSE 4 LINES AGAIN...BUT RIGHT BEFORE THE FIRST VERSE STARTS, RATHER THAN SAYING "LOOK OUT", HE SAYS "MR. KID ROCK" AT WHICH TIME KID ROCK RUNS OUT FROM THE RIGHT AND THEY BOTH RIP INTO THE SONG...PRETTY COOL...THE WHOLE CROWD SURGED 4WARD, I'DVE PROBABLY BEEN KNOCKED OVER HAD THERE BEEN NO WALL 2 BRACE MYSELF WITH...DURING THE SONG, SOME STUPID DRUNK SKANK FELL LIKE 3 TIMES IN FRONT OF ME...HER BOYFRIEND HAD 2 PICK HER UP AND DRAG HER TOWARDS THE BACK...SEEING AS SHE WAS COMPLETELY OUT OF IT, I SEIZED THE OPPORTUNITY 2 HELP MYSELF 2 A HANDFULL OF ASS(HER'S, NOT HIS) AS THEY WENT BY ME

AFTER "NIGHT TRAIN", EVERYTHING WENT DARK...ROBIN APPEARED ATOP THE STAGE, BEHIND THE DRUMS, AND PLAYED THE OPENING RIFF OF "CHINESE DEMOCRACY", FLANKED BY AN AMAZING LIGHT SHOW...LIKE "WTTJ", IT WAS AN EXTENDED INTRO, WITH ROBIN REPEATING THE SAME NOTE, UNTIL FINALLY THE SONG STARTED...THIS WAS ANOTHER OF THE TUNES I WAS MOST LOOKING 4WARD 2, THE ONLY DISSAPOINTMENT BEING THE ABSENCE OF THE LITTLE SYNTH LINE IN THE OPENING WHICH HAD BEEN THERE BEFORE...IT ONLY LASTS LIKE A SECOND, BUT THAT NOTE REALLY HELPS KICK THINGS OFF...HOPEFULLY IT'S RESTORED 4 THE RECORD...THERE WERE SOME COOL KEYBOARD EFFECTS LATER ON IN THE SONG, THOUGH...GREAT TRACK

ANOTHER ROBIN SOLO(HE'S DEFINATELY THE STAR GUITAR PLAYER IN THE BAND NOW) WAS FOLLOWED BY "PARADISE CITY" :o(...I WAS KINDA BUMMED CAUSE THAT'S THE LAST SONG THEY PLAY AND I KNEW IT WOULD ALL BE OVER SOON...I TRIED 2 SAVOR EVERY LAST MOMENT, AS CONFETTI SHOT OUT THE SIDE AND RAINED DOWN ON EVERYONE...AXL HAD THROWN THE WHISTLE INTO THE AUDIENCE, IMAGINE THE LUCKY SLUT/BASTARD WHO GOT IT AFTER THEY'D JUST BEEN IN HIS LIPS!...ROBIN DOVE INTO THE CROWD...AND JUST WHEN I THOUGHT I WAS OUT OF THE WOODS WITH THE STAGE BOMBS, *BOOM!*, ANOTHER ONE SENT ME HALF 2 HELL...I THINK EVEN AXL WAS STARTLED...HE THANKED NEW YORK AS THE SONG ENDED, THREW THE MIC INTO THE CROWD, AND LEFT WITH THE BAND...FUCK, I WISH I'D GOTTEN IT

ALL THE LIGHTS WERE OFF AS PEOPLE BEGAN FILING OUT...I'VE LEARNED 2 WALK SLOWLY AND NOT LEAVE TILL I C THE CREW TAKING THE STAGE APART, SINCE I GOT FUCKED OUT OF WATCHING POISON DO "TALK DIRTY 2 ME" AFTER RUNNING OUT PREMATURELY 2 CATCH THE BUS...HAD 2 LISTEN 2 IT FROM THE PARKING LOT...SO AS I'M TAKING MY TIME TOWARDS THE EXIT, THE STAGE LIGHTS COME ON AND AXL'S THERE WITH EVERYONE, EXCEPT IZZY WHO HAD LEFT...EVERYBODY RUNS BACK DOWN TOWARD THE STAGE, AND PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE TRY RUNNING BACK IN WHEN THEY HEAR THE CHEERS...AXL AND FRIENDS DO A GROUP BOW, WAVE AND LEAVE

AND SO ENDED THE GREATEST 2 AND A HALF HOURS IN THE HISTORY OF EXISTENCE...I'VE BEEN DOWN SINCE THEN, IT'S LIKE NOTHING ELSE CAN MAKE ME HAPPY...WHAT ELSE IS THERE 2 LIVE 4?...I'VE REALIZED MY LIFE LONG DREAM, NOW WHAT?...SINCE THE SHOW, WHEN I LISTEN 2 "WTTJ" OR "CD", I HIT THE REWIND BUTTON AT THE BEGINNING IN AN ATTEMPT 2 REPLICATE THE WAY THE SONGS WERE PLAYED THAT NIGHT, TRYING 2 RELIVE IT ANY WAY I CAN...I WISH I COULD JUST GO INTO HIBERNATION TILL THE ALBUM AND NEXT TOUR COME AROUND :\

 

All right!  Thank you El Chino!  You captured the moment!  I was there that night and you just took me on a journey of reliving it all!  It was a night that will go down in my history book as one of the best ever!

this was the best show i have been to

link to my story of the experience

http://adventureswithf.blogspot.com/

10 years ago today for all the members who were there! the return of IZZY what a night

Those 4 nights... I will never forget them.