Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Working Conditions, Low Salaries Cited

By Lisa Lambert
Reuters
Tuesday, May 9, 2006; Page A07

Jessica Jentis fit the profile of a typical American teacher: She was white, held a master's degree and quit 2 1/2 years after starting her career.

According to a new study from the National Education Association, a teachers union, half of new U.S. teachers are likely to quit within the first five years because of poor working conditions and low salaries.
   

Jentis, now a stay-at-home mother of three, says that she could not make enough money teaching in Manhattan to pay for her student loans and that dealing with the school bureaucracy was too difficult.

"The kids were wonderful to be with, but the stress of everything that went with it and the low pay did not make it hard to leave," she said. "It's sad because you see a lot of the teachers that are young and gung-ho are ready to leave."

The proportion of new teachers who leave the profession has hovered around 50 percent for decades, said Barry A. Farber, a professor of education and psychology at Columbia University in New York.

The study, which the association released last week ahead of its annual salute to teachers today, also found that the average teacher is a married, 43-year-old white woman who is religious.

Teachers are more educated than ever before, with the proportion of those holding master's degrees increasing to 50 percent from 23 percent since the early 1960s.

Only 6 percent of teachers are African American, and 5 percent are Hispanic, Asian or come from other ethnic groups. Men represent barely a quarter of teachers, which the association says is the lowest level in four decades.

"We must face the fact that although our current teachers are the most educated and most experienced ever, there are still too many teachers leaving the profession too early, not enough people becoming teachers and not enough diversity in the profession," NEA President Reg Weaver said in a statement.

Because of the high dropout rate of younger teachers, there will be plenty of job openings for teachers over the next 10 years, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Because education is governed at the state level, programs to retain younger teachers differ from state to state.

U would think something would be done about this.

No one wants to be a teacher anymore cause whats the point?

Why go to school for all those years to make peanuts when u can use that degree to make 5 times more money?

Ive had some pretty bad teachers in my day.

I had a math teacher in 8th grade who absolutely ruined me.

I am a human calculator when it comes to division,multiplication,addition and subtraction. one of my teachers actually called me "Rain Man'

time my 8th grade piece of shit teacher got through with me, I just never was the same.

I still can do basic math in my head like a calculator, but she did irrepairable damage to me when it comes to harder math.

after she got through I was never able to comprehend more difficult mathematics.

I can relate with ya on that one D.  Its not hard to tell when a teacher hates his or her job and is just a complete bitch or ass to the students.  Teachers that do hate what they do and decide to stick it out, just take their frustrations out on the students.  I'm 3 years into college and have had plenty of teachers and professors and it seems to me that most of my horrible teachers were in junior high and high school.  I will never forgive some of my teachers for the shit they put me through.  There are some great teachers out there though.  Some of them deserve so much more than what they get.  I've seen some really good people quit there teaching job because of the lame pay.  But not all teachers get paid like shit.  My brother-in-law makes over 70 thousand dollars a year and teaches at a very small school.  He is the head basketball coach and golf coach and of course makes more money because of that, but without those he would still be making 50 thousand dollars a year, which is damn decent money.  Working conditions and pay have a lot to do with what area you get a teaching job in.  Some people need to search around for a job and not take the first one that jumps out at them.  Personally, I could never be a teacher and thank god there are some really great people out there who are very inspiring teachers. 

I am a teacher and I see this happen each year when our contracts are due.  They make us jump through an endless amount of hoops in my district i.e. classes, seminars, tests, etc. and for what?  Last year we received a 2% raise only to have our benefits costs increase 2%.  I have a buddy that has been here in the same district for 15 years and doesn't make over 40k and he is head basketball coach, JV softball and a department head.  Whats worse than the pay is the fact that we can not hardly discipline the kids anymore.  All mommy and daddy have to do is come and bitch us out and the kid gets out of it.  Then they are uncontrollable.  I had shitty teachers my entire MS and HS years but I have vowed to be different, a rebel with in the system!

How long have you been a teacher now?

I am nearing the end of my third year, so it looks like I only have 2 to go!!

I do like the kids though.  I am an elementary PE teacher and HS basketball and softball coach.  The little ones treat me like a rock star, calling my name out all the time, hugging me, giving me things.  I also taught alternative ed. for a year, that was an experience for sure. 

Teachers don't get paid enough for what they do. They have one of the most important jobs on the planet but it seems to go unappreciated most of the time. There are two teachers from high school and college who influenced me in a positive way. I'll always be grateful to them.

They get paid for the time they work or is that based on an annual salary?

In Fla they start in the low 20's. Which a waiter could double working half the hours............. :no:



2 to go til what? Sorry if I missed something.........

i think he was joking about teachers quiting in 5 years.  He has 2 more to go until he hits the 5 year mark.

haha, a bit early for me. I was thinking along the lines of something else........

Please pass the side of DUH.................... :hihi:

In college algebra in High School I got a D


In College Algebra in College I got an A


Make any sense??

I used to build cars for a living at a Subaru-Isuzu plant and made over 50k, it will take me about 20 years of teaching to equal what I made after just 4 years at the plant.  But I will say that teaching is more rewarding....most of the time.

There's a D pun here somewhere...I just can't find it... :P

I'm a teacher too, but I work and live in the Netherlands. I have to say the job pays reasonably well, although it isn't hard to find a job with my degree which pays more. Nevertheless, I choose teaching instead of working in an office (which would pay about double) because I find teaching very satisfying and rewarding. Sure, I have my off days, but I thouroughly enjoy working with these kids (well, some of my students are just too old to be called 'kids', but the majority of them are teenagers).

The downside of the job to me definitely is the paper work. Things are overregulated. For every test I give, I have to fill in loads of papers and forms, most of them complete nonsense anyway (most of the time I simply 'forget' because I don't feel like it, never been reminded of it, so what's the point???). I quit about six times a week due to all the excessive administration (me yelling in the teacher's room: to hell with it, they can find another moron to fill in these stupid forms!  :hihi: My colleages are quite used to it)

In the Netherlands the situation is quite similar, lots of young teachers, fresh out of college, quit after just a few years. There are a number of reasons: they get job offers that pay better, they get overworked (yes, quite a lot of holidays, but you still make killer hours in a normal week), or they have problems dealing with the children (or the parents of the children). These would be the top three reasons teachers quit early in this country, according to the union a couple of years ago.

My story, maybe nice for comparison!

The High School teacher confused me and I basically just slept. Fuck it.

College I was like OK, this is what u are talkin about. it was very easy.

I'd quit too.

The payscale is shit.? In many school systems, you deserve combat pay.? The "suburb" schools are filled with teachers who have 10, 20, 30 years of service and who will not leave until they are carried out. There is little to no opportunity for upward mobility beyond long term seniority getting you a dept head chair (in, say..20 years or so).? You teach the same board of ed mandated/approved curriculum year in and year out.? Any "progressive" teaching methods, or doing anything remotely interesting (or that costs anything) is "frowned upon" by both the board of ed and your long standing senior peers.? You see many, many students who just don't want to participate, or "own", their own education and the process it entails.? You get no praise when you do a good job, and you get shit on if you make the smallest mistake.?

I'm not surprised the burnout rate is so high.

Especially considering that masters in education, combined with a decent liberal arts background, fresh out of college will get you about 150% more pay (that's just hourly rate...probably works out to more like double because you're working a full year, not just a contract year).? AND that job will offer more opportunity for advancement AND, on average, double the pay raise every year.

The only downside is you have to work year round, and not take summers off.? With all the new requirements most systems are putting in place for teachers (CEU's, etc), you're pretty much working year round anyway.? You're just spending the other 3 months maintaining your certification...

I'm nearly done my senior year in HS, I feel like I'm leaving hell to heaven. I have always been in special education classes. It was the shitty teaching's fault that made me flunk 2nd garade. All the "smarter" kids look down on you like you're retarded if you're in those classes. That's probably why I was always a loner. There was probably not even more than 3 teachers I only liked out of those 13 years, lol.

The teacher definatly makes a difference, but how the teacher teaches is based on the attitude of the class.

I see teachers as I should, people who are doing their job and teaching us.  Other kids seem to see them as these horrible people out to ruian their lives, they're the victim.  Which is stupid.  So they distrupt the class and in turn the teacher gets pissed.

Its a cycle, a horrible one for the kids who genuinly want to learn.   :no:

I agree. I do think though that if you make your lessons a bit more fun, adding some games, using your creativity etc, it helps to calm down the hormones and the kids will help you making the lesson fun for everyone. I taught Shakespeare today by turning the dialogue of Kath and Petruccio in Taming of the Shrew into a rap battle. Later that day one of the more 'difficult' kids stops me in the hallway. He actually went on the internet to find out more about the play. He thought it was cool  ;D Needless to say I was flabbergasted when he asked me if we could do some more in tomorrow's class  ???

The problem is that with 26+ lessons a week plus lots of paperwork it is difficult to be inventive, because you just can't find the time. Boring lessons lead to disinterested students which leads to disruptions which leads to one hell of a pissed off and overworked teacher. I try to negotiate as many as parallel classes as I can, so I can use the same lesson twice or three times for different groups, recycling the material, so I only have one preperation, three cool periods.

In school all i really wanted was for a teacher to care.

If a teacher showed an interest in me and took the time to treat me as more than a recycleable student, I also excelled and did very well.


Up until my Junior Year from 1st Grade to 11th I was a straight A student in line for a possible valedictorian run and then a bunch of shit went wrong in my life and I got extremely depressed and lost my mind for a couple years and I started flunking out.

Not one teacher ever asked me what was wrong.

to me if u got a student that aces every test, answers every question and then all of a sudden sleeps through classes, blows off homework, fails tests, u would think they'd care enough to see if they c ould help.

Maybe that isnt there job but it sure wouldve helped just to know someone cared.

That most definitely is their job. When the parents come to school for the obligatory parent/teacher meeting I always ask questions about the kids that don't necessarily have anything to do with my subject (which is English). I ask the parents if there is anything going on at home I need to be aware of, if they think their children feel comfortable at school, of they have friends, etc etc, so I get a clearer picture of the people I'm teaching. If I feel that a student is flunking when he shouldn't be, or if I have the feeling that he's not feeling all right, I ask him if I can see him after class in a way that he doesn't start to worry about being in trouble and without letting the rest of the class know I want to talk to him. I have about three or four of these talks every week. Sometimes I'm chasing ghosts and I see things that aren't there and the student is fine, but most of the time I'm right.

I would even go further and say that that is my primary job. You can be shit at English and still have a successful life. But getting through pubery can be quite rough on some people and it's nice if someone takes the time and effort to listen to them.

Problem again is time. I probably work 1/3 more than I get paid for, because I do these things. But on the other hand, when I come home, I had a fullfilling day knowing I did something worthwhile.

Thats great Godiva and I wish I had teachers like that.

All I ever needed was to be motivated properly.

And it would piss me off how the rich kids or jocks would get all the encouragement and help but the poor kids were just irrelevant and forgotten.

Well, your teacher is clearly rubbish.

Which, you'll be pretty pleased to hear, proves your point! From idiotic tendancies, your education has been sacrificed and as such you are the product of a crappy educational system, ie. an idiot.

Seriously though... You're not. You make a good point. I've heard, first hand, of what teaching up in some parts London is like. You live in happy land, the UK is full of arseholes. While you are having to put up with Dennis the Menace ruining your lessons with his catapult (or is it a biro and some paper these days?), we have to put up with want-to-be, wannabe gangsters beating up the teachers. Though, while the pay is bad, I've passed about three or four teachers on my way up that clearly have such a passion that it has been little of their concern. Teachers should be paid more, but as it is right now... They probably earn a lot more than you think. It isn't slave labour, not just yet at least.

I would think that could become mind numbing work pretty quickly.........

Did it?

Thanks D. That's a great compliment. I think you had some bad luck with the teachers you had. I can see both sides of the story. I have some amazing colleagues who are very passionate about teaching and who are trying to do a good job. But the majority of my co-workers I'm afraid are just going through the motions and lost that passion years ago. It's a spiral. You loose the spark, so you are not interested in doing the best job possible, so you loose even more interest because it just isn't fun anymore. I've only been teaching for a couple of years and I've already seen a lot of young, motivated teachers quit for several reasons. It really is too bad, because I think it's an important job and it needs to be done right.

Here in this country, it is very difficult to fire a teacher for doing a lousy job. There just aren't enough inspections, but at the same time the less important stuff is overregulated. Every test you give has to fullfill a shitload of standards, but I never had anybody in my classroom to observe just how I deal with the children. Of course, they come into my classroom to see if I know what I'm talking about, but if I just told the kids to start doing their homework and not bother me while I'm reading a newspaper (I don't do that), I wouldn't even get a slap on my wrist for that. It's silly.

I think a lot of power has been taken away from teachers also.

When I was in Elementary school, I never wanted to be paddled. So I always had myhomework finished, never acted up etc etc.

As soon as they took Corporal punishment out and replaced it with detention, I became the class clown and didnt care anymore about the rules the way I did cause there was no point.

Teachers dont have the authority over the kids like they use to have, and I say that has a lot to do with it as well.

... I'd take a sound beating over a saturday morning detention any day of the week.

SLC, absolutely it was mind numbing, thank God for mary jane!  Body got into shape, mind wasted away.

D, you are right on as far as I am concerned.  Kids don't have that fear anymore.  I got paddled once in the 5th grade and it was humiliating.  Plus I got it worse at home.  Now parents want to be their kids best friends and not let anything happen to their little precious.

How far down that road would you be willing to go? I'm undecided on the matter (it's somewhat difficult to when you're still in education; that said, I'm far beyond punishment these days...), but, if you are in favour of corporal punishment, then to what what extent? Is good behaviour bred through fear really the right thing to do?

... Actually, if you must know, I'm all in favour of a nice solid beating. It keeps everybody on their toes. Though to be completely honest, I don't think that it would deter me, at least, any more than detention did. It isn't like you're going to get beat to within an inch of your life. Maybe laps around the playground would be a good thing...

Sat detention would suck, but we just had 30 minutes after school. I mean who gives a shit about stayin 30 minutes extra? much better than getting paddled and have all your classmates tease u.

Jim i dont know what is wrong with invoking good behavior with fear.

I know I turned out well and never got into trouble growing up thanks in part to that fear of my mom and dad whipping my ass when i got out of line.

Now days kids get time outs. Big deal, u sit in a corner and if u scream and cry really loud, most parents just get annoyed and let u do whatever anyway so I think a nice ass whipping works great for kids. U have to teach them fear and respect for the rules somehow.

Yeah -- Im a shocking speller.  I admit it.   :no:  I know I'm not an idiot.  I'm alot more intellegent than most of the kids in my classes... and I say that in the least egotistical way.  Australia isnt *happy land*,  it has about the same amount of morons and 'Denis the Menace's" that the UK would have.  I love it when you have passionate teachers, sadly there are so few of them now.  I would love to be a teacher, but some of the kids wouldnt be worth your effort.

Recently, a teacher came to school in Brisbane with 30kg of explosives strapped to his chest.  Do I blame him, not really.  Some children make teachers lives hell, and they say sticks and stones.  I know it isnt 'slave labour' but keep in mind the kind of shit kids give out these days. 

Me neither. I blame the dynamite shop...


You can get away with that once, but it's such a turn off. In future, just say that everybody else in your classes are stupid.

Why is it a turn off?  If you bothered to ask the rest in I actually said "and I say that in the least egotistical way" Because I do.  Most girls I know just act stupid to look 'hot' for boys?!  Or they just couldnt be assed learning.

The rest of the quote wasn't necesary; "intelligence" is relative, and as such whether or not it really is the least egotistical way is impossible to gage. Yuk yuk yuk.

 ::)  Yes, Jim.

You obviously didnt understand what I was trying to say.  And I also said "most of the kids" so you really took it out of context and tried to make it into some kind of "Oh, I am so much smarter than everyone I know."  Which, it wasn't.  I was just saying that most of my classes of kids couldn't give a shit -- dont try -- and I end up learning more than them... making me... smarter.  Well -- at least in a classroom sense.  They may have more common knowledge, common sense, street smarts... what ever.  I just apply myself alot more than most people in my classes.

Which was the point I was trying to make.  Now -- I feel like a wanker -- and I shouldn't because I was trying to make a point that kids these days sometimes don't care about school -- just the social side and they don't realise why they're there, and why their parents are paying.

Look here missy, if I didn't understand what you were trying to say it was because you started talking Australian:

 
... And then something about Paris Hilton. What the hell is that supposed to mean, eh?

But seriously. Don't feel like a wanker. I thought that you had learned not to take what I say too seriously, unless I put on serious face.

(As a side note, I was under the impression that street smarts and intelligence (Smartness... Smarties) negatively correlated? Yuk yuk yuk.)


Well, neither do I. Not with any certainty at least. I just feel that, as Yoda would say were he here, fear leads to hate, hate leads to the... Hate can lead to rebellion. If you are using fear as a way of, quite literally beating it into your children, then I don't think that it works as an extremity... There's a fine line, I guess.

Jim I agree with you a good solid beating keeps you on your toes.. Im in the navy.. im a submariner and we have to go through a little qualification period.. learn damage control, and all the stuff that makes a sub a sub.. during my check outs if i would miss a question my sea dad would whack me with a wrench!! it hurt so i quit missing questions..

Isn't that unnecessary roughness? Did you have to go through a hazing too?

Yea but i knew the stuff i needed to know.. theres a lot of hazing.. that goes on in subs.. its a way of testing whether or not the person will be able to handle it! you life depends on 130 other guys so..

That's understandable. I just worry about hazing getting out of control to the point of killing someone. But I'm sure it's kept under control.