Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Today I enabled the karm feature on the board. It's normally used to give users positive or negative points. Normally users can give each other karma points, but since this isn't a popularity contest, we're gona use it for something else.

From now on every time the moderators think you've done something we don't like around here (breaking the rules, bumping old threads without a reason, posting illegal downloads, posting only smileys etc. etc.) they can give you minus points.

These points will be taken into consideration when someody's about to get banned.

I'm tired of certain people ignoring the rules we have here. I'm also getting tired of a certain group of people ruining thread after thread with the same old whining and off topic "discussions".

From now on you can't say you had no idea you broke the rules, just keep an eye on your karma points....



/jarmo

So essentially 0 is the highest score you get, and is therefore good yeah?


Does a certain number of minus points equal banning?

Yeah, zero is good.


No number has been set, but the more minus points you have, the closer to getting banned you are...




/jarmo

And can we be mod for a day if we have positive points?  ;)

you mods fans of Carson Daly too? ;D

I see speed_stone has -2 already  :hihi:


Pretty good addition  : ok:

good idea, behaviour gets easy to track!

Yeah, nice addition.

So, as someone was saying, you can't get higher than 0 and there's no limit for the minus points?

I like it. Maybe it will help with those posters who spam bad obsession. (Walk)

aw, I was hoping that I could earn some good karma... (man, I could use it!) but now I see that you can only get negative karma? ?:(? ?kind of disappointing for my soul's sake.

You are a genius. Great way to start cleaning up the forum. You're idea of not letting the members use the karma thing is pretty good as well. Most people wouldnt even use it, and only the more popular people would have good amounts of karma. Of course, there would also be certain people who spend all day giving people bad karma. Great job! :beer:

It's a nice idea though , i like it . : ok:

I like the idea, I had to go check a thread that I had to post in real quick to check my number :hihi:

I think its a good way to kind of warn people if a poster has a history of causing trouble or starting B.S. rumors, and should be ignored. This whole "My Name Is Earl" thing is really catching on : ok:

I did, you posted some off topic things in a GN'R thread among other things.


You'll start giving a shit once you get more and more points and finally end up banned because you're too "cool" not to give a shit. ?: ok:




/jarmo

Is there anyway that you know of that you could use karma points as a standard for who can start new threads?? Like if you have a certain number of negative karma points you can't start a new thread?? I think it would really help filter out all of the stream of conscious threads like "Axl is the best" .? It would be great if the board wasn't so cluttered with random musings people have about things that either are not valid or have been discussed 1,000 times when they can usually just post it in a thread that already exists.

WOW. I didn't see that -1 coming to this dude? Hehe....

In all seriousness, if we're having an honest to goodness debate with someone (void of name calling and so on), we can do that w/o getting negative points right?

Good idea Jarmo... : ok:

I hope this idea works for the board :yes: excellent way to distinguish good posters from bad ones : ok:

If you get minus points, can you have them erased if enough time passes? And what about positive points? And since I am a former president, does that mean I get a free pass?

I can finally strive to be a zero.............

And can we post  minus points for incompetent  moderators?

Really, this idea strikes me as silly. Another brick in the wall of thought control. I understand the motivation and the purpose, but it strikes me as VERY heavy handed and  arbitrary. If you want to turn this into  a peer-reviewed website where  postings  have to meet certain criteria  of acceptance, it really contravenes  the whole  idea  of a shared  forum. The idea might be  good in theory, but given the arbitrary and inconsistent nature  of moderators' decisions, there  is tremendous room for abuse, and ultimately, defection from this site  as people become  alienated from nontransparent and inconsistent application of rules.

You make a good argument there, but thought control? I don't see how that plays into any of this.  I guess you could consider it thought control because having people use their brains instead of posting whatever the hell comes into their head does require a bit of thought. 

And as far as defection, well I don't see that as a bad thing.  Cutting some of the fat off this board will only help it as maybe the people who spam promising threads with pages and pages of smileys will maybe stop posting or actually focus a little more.

Hey...

you got a chance to go from zero to hero... and you start whinning again?

Ofcourse we need some thought control. People need to think before they post as much as they need to think before they talk.

That's because there are rules and people HAVE to follow them.

Jarmo cannot moderate the whole board 24hrs, so he's basically giving us the chance to help even more.

I only see a few people complaining about the mods. You know what they say about majority, right?

You make my points even better than I.
Additionally:

1. "help even more" vs. "abuse our privilege  to serve those  who patronize the site." There is a  difference. Mods are here to serve us. Without us (the masses) there would  be no site. It  would, in the words  of  Trotsky, disappare into the "dustbin of history."
2. Rosseau  was very clear about  the tyrrany of the majority. Yours is a spurious point.
3. I am sure that more people are dissatisfied  with  the job  mods do than the  few who may actually voice  their dissent.
4. Again, I understand the intent. My point was that there is  an arbitrary nature in which mods  exercise  their "power" and that makes the entire excercise untenable and ultimately self-defeating.
Unless  the board is going to have paid mods who are  professionally qualified, any arbitrary application of rules--which vary from mod to mod  and subject to subject--is untenable.

Thanks, that just made my day and it's the only reason why I won't answer to any of your posts from now on...

I swear.. you people whine so damn much.  ::)

Who cares? Just don't fuck around and you wont even notice the difference.

I'm dying to know what a mod did to put Krispy Kreme over the edge...? what was the straw that broke the camel's back on this?? It all seems very recent...

(crap, that was off-topic, wasn't it? Watch me lose karma over it... wait, no! I mentioned karma, I'm bringing it back around...)

Christos said he liked Dunkin Donuts better, it got realy nasty :no:

Now this is a really good reason to get a -1...

I never said that they're better. I just said "they just thought I'd know better"...

Was that sarcasm? Very often your own posts in Bad Obsession consist of quoting a big chunk of text and just replying "You're a fucking idiot", or something similar.

so can you get + karma!

Do you really want these guys moderating this board?:
(http://meumousenaofunciona.blig.ig.com.br/imagens/nerds.gif)

Isn't it possible to get positive karma? Or if you get negative you can get it positive again?

I think the karma thing ain't bad.

If you want to post something, do it in the right section, use the search feat to see if it's been discussed before in the past, and post. If you think it's something worth discussing, post it. I for one (and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one) will not be punishing anyone just because a search came up empty and there was a similar topic and someone didn't notice it. Do, however think, whether the post you'll be doing, could be put into an existing thread (a lot of the show-related threads are like that, also, there was a pretty big number of topics on Axl's recent radio interview). If you think it deserves a new thread, post it in a new thread. If a mod sees that it should be merged, he'll do it.

No one will be getting minuspoints just because. There's always a reason. So don't feel that this thing is limiting your posting in some way. It's only a tool to see if someone is continuously and deliberately breaking the rules and being an ass. Getting a minuspoint is not the end of the world.

Debates are what we try to encourage by having the rules we have.

This isn't the kind of debates we wan't:

Example #1:

Poster #1:? :hihi:
Poster #2: That's funny!
Poster #3: Idiots!


Example #2 (in the GN'R section):

Poster #1:? Kurt Cobain was an asshole
Poster #2: Yeah, good thing he killed himself!
Poster #3: Nirvana sucked!
Poster #4: I like Nirvana!



Not right now, 0 is the highest and I guess we can reset negative karma if enough time passes without any other issues....




Of course it's silly for you. Because you never have to deal with the "fans" who constantly call others all kinds of names because it's "cool". You never have to deal with trying to read through 40 pages of nonsense just to see if there was something worthwhile posted in that thread.


If you think this is too much to handle, then you're fucking lazy. All you need to do is read the rules, follow them and you won't get any minus points.

I can't believe you're still so upset because a mod locked one of your threads.  ::)


/jarmo

Will this affect my entry into heaven? :nervous:

Not unless you conceed that Barca are going to beat Arsenal. Because of course if you don't, that's an automatic -1.


So that's what made pushed him over the edge, eh? I did wonder what happened to the boy. Oh well, at least he gave us a good chuckle.

Mind control? Well. At least it's a new one.

If you only can get negative karma, I think it brings a negative vibe over the whole thing.

the karma thing is whatever to me, like "oh no some guy put a number next to my user name" whatever, however the problem i have is with you referring to other posters as "fans", put like that as if they weren't. the last thing we need is someone trying to decide who is a gnr fan or not, for all you know the person you are talking about in manner that could be one of the most hardcore fans around.

Look, you obviously have no fucking idea about how this place works.

It's not about being a hardcore fan at all. You can be the biggest fan in the world, but unless you fucking pay attention and respect our rules, you won't be welcome here.

Get it?

Somebody who bought AFD yesterday and respect the fact that we do have rules will feel more welcome here than somebody who saw GN'R play in 1985 and calls everybody idiots in every thread.

I don't know how many times I've tried to explain that to you, but you just don't seem to get it.




/jarmo

i get that you are enforcing your own rules on this place, and that's your right as an admin, but i'm reffering to you putting it like this "fans", i'm a fucking longtime fan and i'm not gonna have anyone tell me that i'm lesser of a fan because i'm not rated the all-time top HTGTH poster.

Dude, can't you read? It's called "karma" feature, not "hardcoreness" feature. He never said you were less of a Gn'R fan! You are the one implying that the more negative points you have, the less of a fan you are. Go back to the very first post in this thread and read it. 


I feel sorry for Jarmo  ::)

can't you read? he's implied several times, including in the post before his last, that certain people are not really fans by putting fans in these "", ok? that pisses me off, and i just wanted to address it, as that's my right. stay out of this and take your own reading advice before getting involved next time.

I can read very well, thank you. And I did read what he said, but YOU didn't get my point. I said that the Karma feature had nothing to do with how much of a Gn'R fan you are. If one has just discovered Gn'R and signs up to the board, he won't get negative points until he breaks a rule, but some people come here and insult other people purely because this person replied to a topic, like you did yesterday.
It doesn't make you any more of a fan insulting other people for nothing.

i can only see one mention of "fans"...and youve taken it the wrong way...

i responded to him, i didn't insult him. but whatever, alright? i'm sick of arguing. if you seen his post, then why would you say it had nothing to do with this thread? ::)


he said it in another thread too, but i'm not gonna sit here and argue anymore. i've made my point.

You are sick of arguing? That's new!

Yeah, well, you know what you said, and you are not making any sense. Say what you want, I'm outta here, I'm the one sick of arguing now.

 :rofl:

ok then ::)

don't let the door hit you on your way out.

Speed-stone, I get what your point is.  But I don't think the quotes were meant to imply that rule-breakers weren't fans.  I think he probably just said "fans" for lack of a better word....or maybe in place of a much less kind word.


Jarmo - I hope you are prepared for at least half a dozen threads in the next 6 months about ideas of how to earn positive points.  You know its coming...how about points based on post count, or maybe mods could give points if you really say something brilliant, or maybe we could vote once a week and the "poster of the week" gets 3 karma points....

Seriously, if the karma thing helps Jarmo and the mods do their job, its fine with me.  I don't expect to be affected by it, since I try to think before I post, or even speak for that matter.  (I'm a pretty quiet person)

yes, but some people will take offense to the fact that he implies that we are not fans. nothing could be more insulting to me, being a hardcore fan since 1990. he should refrain from it. that being said, i'm not gonna argue anymore, obviously he don't see my point, as i have pm'ed him about it before too. glad you got my point.

I apologize, but does anyone else see the humor of people arguing in the "Karma" thread?

no.

Stop posting pointless one word answers.

he asked a question! it wasn't that much to elaborate on! jesus!

and thanks for that karma point, i hope it made you feel important.

getting banned for answering questions now. laughable.

It was pretty rhetorical.

You're just being anal and repetitive.

i agree with this, why not let users add their own positive points? it would lead to some abuse yes, but so does the current system. at least then good posts could have their props, if we're going to use this "karma" thing anyway.


funny. oh i'm sorry, was that a one word answer? maybe i should drag it out with pointless drivel like this?

do you also see the humour of new people coming here and seeing everyone has negative or zero karma? :hihi:

Yep, the'll come here and think these people must be a collection of morons and assholes. Than they will read a few threads and that will confirm their suspicions.

Its a good start. Like anything new it will have to work some bugs out. Nobody is being unfairly targeted, I dont think. Hell if D, SLC, and myself have a 0 count, thats proof positive that they arent just looking to slam people.

This isn't a popularity contest, this is just so we can keep up track so we know when and why to ban you.

Here is some advice: Don't get so upset at the drop of the hat.

I couldn't imagine "Getting angry" over something so trivial.




Nobody should take "offense" because it has already been explained to you what the quotes mean. Anybody who gets offended at this point, does so out of choice.



"Somebody" does not get it..........



This is about as clear as it can get. If you were smart you would read that and understand why you now have a neg 3 karma rating. Pushing you closer to the ban button. I suppose nobody has accused you of being smart though............

Be careful SLC. Big Brother is watching.

Karma Chamelion.

I'm inside the lines.........

I think........... :P

So is this like baseball 3 strikes and u are out?


Pretty cool idea.

Agreed. It's another step to kill the forum or turn it into a 'you can say what you are allowed to say' type of forum. I think that the banning worked well till now, why would be any need of this? In the school we got 'black points' (earlier: a bad fox) when we did something bad - when the 'black points' reached the critical level, the teacher called for my mom. Cool.

And it annoys me that 'whining' is one of the factors why someone get banned. It's a message board, and it'd be sad that noone can ever write something like 'I miss Slash and Izzy' or 'Axl please release your record' cause he'll be banned for 'whining'. The biggest problem is that 'whining' is used by moderators for everything they don't like.

It was Sanctuary's request?

Just a coincidence i'm sure

The karma feature is a little.....well, not a bad idea as such but, wel all know the trouble makers - so why is a board wide karma policy even needed?

And when posters like Walk have spent years advocating some really terrible views i feel the board kind of gives out a mixed message - as long as your whining about Axl/abuse/spamming is in good english, with atleast half a dozen lines of text its okay?

Not really a complaint, just an observation, i think the board is in good health

Differing points of view can spur good debates. Political threads were banned for a while, and what replaced them were topics such as the flirting thread and many others of that ilk. I'm not a big contributor to political threads, but overall they were way more interesting than the former.

It's realy fairly easy to spot the idiots. Because someone has what one may consider terrible views does not necessarily make the peson a real bother to the forum as long as the discussion level is a little more captivating than 30 posts in a row that glorify having 2 dicks up your ass.

Anyhow, we'll see how this karma thing helps matters.

this is actually a pretty good idea. when i first saw the karma thing, i thought it sucked, but since it`s not working in the usual way it`s really helpful i think.

right on speed stone!! :hihi:

What's killing the board is a select group of people constantly insulting each other and posting pointless threads about nothing.

Once again, if you're only here to start shit and get attention, leave already. Attention seekers will get banned sooner or later.



First off, you have no idea what people get banned for.

You can write that if you feel like it. Maybe something more original would be interesting though. I'm personally tired of reading about a reunion that's not happening this week or the next.


Secondly, whining: Complaining about everything all the fucking time. Do you really want to hear that all the time? We have shows scheduled, it's not good because they won't play somebody's backyard on the right date. We have an Axl interview, it's not good because he didn't say what you wanted to hear etc etc.

What do you want to see on a GN'R board? A bunch of GN'R fans saying everything was better in 1987 complaining about Robin's clothes or do you want to see people who are actually excited about a band that's about to tour for the first time in four years?

I mean, this is a GN'R board, nowhere do we say we're all about the old band or your dreams about a reunion. Didn't you notice?

Maybe you should head to a VR forum or something and keep reminding them how great Snakepit were and how you wish VR breaks up so you can hear Snakepit again? Let's see how long they'll listen to you.

It gets really boring having a few people post negative shit day after day after day. That's what we're trying to cut down on.




'

No, it was my idea to keep track of the few people who keep ruining the board for the rest.

Nobody can say they weren't warned in advance from now on.



/jarmo

Are you not able to distinguish between the differing nature of individual events that are, in essence, identical? Or, do you just choose not to? Each case is different and as such needs to be viewed seperately! Expressing your feelings towards a reunion, in favour or whatever else, in a thread in which it falls under the umbrella of discussion is fine; 'whinging' or otherwise, it doesn't matter. Constantly dragging topics about this band, the current GNR, into the murky bullshit of how bad they are or how badly you want a reunion is what is likely to get you banned in time. There's the difference, brother.

The sooner the free speakers among us like yourself (and we all say 'HA!') realise that there is no black and white and that everything must be viewed independantly, the sooner we are likely to get any sense out of you.


Oh dear. When are you going to realize that this is a discussion board? Nobody has the right to come here. Jarmo could ban the whole fucking lot of you if he so wanted; never has he been influenced by numbers or popularity. This is a discussion board and as such discussion is encouraged. 'What you are allowed to say'? Well, if it preserves this board as a readable one, then, yes, that is what this is about.

What we do our best to discourage here are posts that contribute nothing, smiley posts, insults and off topic slush. If you think that this karma deal, or any of the rules in place, are there in order to tell you what to think then, well, you're a fucking idiot.

Most of the people who argue for free speech, when arguing for free speech, act as if children who have some vague concept that such a thing exists and yet have no real knowledge of what it is, or the importance of it's application and execution.

Now, here's an analogy worthy of the mind control, thought control Orwel reading Putin studying doughnut:

This is a town meeting (Well, it's more of a gathering). The moderators are the town elders (Fuck yeah we are... Seriously though, go with it. It's an analogy). You people are all wandering about, chatting and you what not. It's all a bit of a laugh.
    And yet, there are those among us who wander over to various groups and do nothing but interupt, with nothing else to add, becomming nothing but a nuisance. Also, there are those who walk over to groups of people discussing how good a certain piece is (...) and start rabbiting on about how much they would like to see a reunion. Out of place, and we all say *sigh*. As well as this, there are people among us who walk over to a group of people showing each photographs of their many trips to Europe and end-world and start talking about anal sex.
    We moderators... We, town elders, walk over to these individuals and give them a slap on the back of the head. In some cases, we sprinkle pixie dust on them and say 'Bad Karma...' Well, what we actually say is 'Smite motherfucker!' and clobber them with a rolled up newspaper, but you wouldn't know about that. Anyway, this alerts the Grandmaster who then is able to monitor these situations more closely.
    If they heed no warnings, and they continue to fuck up our town meeting (it really is more of a gathering), then a group of us (or, if it's Christos, him on his own), at the Grandmaster's discression, seize that person and haul them outside (we try and avoid beatings under the stairs. Though, the old security guard at work didn't...). So, once they are left outside in a heap in the snow the Grandmaster pokes his head around the door and yells '... And don't come back!' He promptly slams the door closed (Forever. It's like the pied piper... It never gets opened again. Well, depending on what version you're reading, sometimes it does. But this is the hardcore version, and it doesn't).
    While outside, the ruiner of conversation moans about how his right to free speach has been breached, abused, refused and nothing short of just cast asside. They continue to grumble, but the town don't care. From time to time there are those inside who attempt to impress upon the others the importance of the treasured values of equality, justice and democracy. This faux-liberation is met with deep belly laughs from many of those who hear it, and the speaker, the abdicator of freedom of speech (all the while passing bread to he who was hauled outside, who is sitting alone. In the snow. In the dark. Crying.) is left looking like a fool; for, unfortunatly for them, they have come arse about face. Their execution is poor, their ideas badly researched, and their understanding of how the town works is... Well, it doesn't seem to be there.
    (All the while the community is slowly building and building and getting bigger and bigger and then they take over the world the end.)


Do you want it painted any clearer, brother?

Yes. While I applaud your indents you should use paragraps as well.

Some fun analogies there, though.

Seriously, but..

Good feature. I got a minus 1. I deserved it.. Someone fired me up and I reacted with an insult to that user. I just want to take this time to say sorry to Jarmo for breaking a rule.

I hope to stick to the rules now and not get anymore bad karma.

I think it's the funniest thing I've ever seen on a Message Board. This must be Copyright. I'm not joking. It's funny. Hey hey do we also have a special party every year? everybody around a table eating chocolate cakes?

You make the wait until May 12th easier. That's a lot of fun. Thank you.

No cake for you, next!






/jarmo

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good idea after all. I may be a little bit ironical with that thing (wich I am), but I think it's a good idea. It may not be easy to moderate a big forum like this one, lots of people, so it makes you the job easier. If I had a board, I would do the same, but at the same time, I would also try to seperate the loyal fans (like me) who are here for a long long time (i don't have anything to proove to anybody, you included) from the non loyal fans and THEN give them a karma. I guess my Karma is for all the BH off topic discussions/whinning. Guess what? I won't change my mind about him, Karma or not Karma. So I prefer to take it with a good laugh :)

No bad feeling from me here Jarmo.

(That post is not ironical - I'm serious here)

When i first saw the Karma feature, I was afraid it was gonna be one of those lame things on most other message boards where people give each other Karma pts.

I was thinking Please God No.

So Im relieved it actually serves a purpose.

i'm getting a little bored with you following me around the board with insults now, mr. "hey look i can post pm's with people giving you the finger", it's getting past the point of pathetic. please do us both a favour and don't address me again. and i'm not smart? that's the funny thing about disrespecting people online, you couldn't be more wrong about the person you are typing text to. ask your friend skynyrdgirl about me if you don't think i'm smart. but whatever, you just bore me now, find someone else to pick on, e-bully. ::)

Use quotes with moderation.
You don't have to quote the whole post when you're only replying to the last paragraph.

Give him -4!   :hihi:

Somehow I get the feeling that speed-stone will set the precedent for how much bad karma you need to get banned.

No.



I get the "feeling" you are right.........

get at me on msn if you ever want to find out what person i am. you couldn't be more wrong. or on a second thought, don't. just don't address me again.

I'll take a rain check..........

I don't have to pick up dogshit and smell it to know that it stinks...............

i feel bad for you. having an angry little internet man following me around with subtile and very boring insults just seems so... gay. :-\

Sorry dude, but this gets one from me...

I think you fail to understand what homosexual means.

What's more 'gay' is you returning to this thread again and again for no other reason than to antagonise people.

It's pathetic, I suggest you stop.

hahahaha good :rofl:
now quit it with the holyer than thou shit, slc punk. ::)

I'd give you one right now if I could.

You're closer to getting banned than ever.

Ahhh man..........

 :P

Well, I'm sorry but these insults have to stop sometime. One way or the other...

no, what's gay is supposedly responsible moderators sitting around at night picking on a poster. i'm not around to piss anyone of. please stop caring? it's so dumb. :-\ 99% of my posts are gnr related, now stop caring about me. you're like james lofton, always thinking people care enough to care about you being on a message board at the same time they are.

I'm pretty sure you're only a few minutes or hours away...

If you're around to piss anyone off, why do you keep going after SLC Punk?

I suggest you calm down or you stay here may be cut very short.

Forgiven for now.


You still have a -1.

it's sad that "moderators" can call someone being on a board "gay" but then resort to threatening to ban that person when they reply. sad.

i'm not "going after" slcpunk! god is this real in here? why am i arguing with a bunch of letters on my screen? you have my word for it, i won't adress another member in this thread again, i've had enough. say what you want now, think up some lame comeback i'm not even gonna read. bye.

Well, in the words of SLCPUNK, I'll take it like a man...

You're going now? Awesome.


Locked.