Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Ohkie... everyone's always goin' on about Nirvana and how they "saved" rock n' roll. ::)

Well... how bout this for a what if question!!!

WHAT IF NIRVANA NEVER EXISTED!!!?

What would the rock world be like?

Post your thoughts here, and don't say somethin' silly like "Well if Nirvana didn't come along, then some OTHER band woulda done exactly the same thing"

OK.. lets change it slightly then... What if the entire "grunge" movement never happened?

 :beer:

I don't think it would've made much difference. I think rock was the catalyst for metal, nu-metal and rap. I don't think you'll see any long-term effects on the music scene by grunge. It was more of a splitting off or a diversion than a whole new movement.

Raven

well there would be no foo fighters i dont know what effect in america but in England we would of probably be plodding along as we did idont remember any english band being inspired by Nirvana except Bush so maybe they would of been bigger

We'd have a huge hole in the ozone layer and we'd all be baking in the sun because of it.

There's just no way that we could've supported all the hairspray that would have still been in use if grunge hadn't come along.

But seriously, it's tough to say.

I'm not the biggest fan of grunge, or Nirvana for that matter (though I give the devil it's due because Nevermind is fucking brilliant....especially, I think, for those of us who were in HS at the time). ?While I have a slight fondness for flannel, I agree with Axl (on the GTA:SA) that we're not lumberjacks.

You have to realize that Grunge wasn't just a reflection of rock music. ?It was a reflection of our society (and yes, I know that sounds corny). ?It was the antithesis to not only hair metal, but to the sort of excess that the late 80's saw flowing through the entire country. ?It was rock rebelling against itself, on some levels, but even more rebelling against "the norm" and the sort of cookie cutter corporate image that the country (and much of rock music) had sort of fostered in the 80's.

But, of course, that's not your question:

I think Rock would have spiralled, even more quickly, into obscurity without Grunge. ?Grunge, at least, kept it afloat, and relevant, for a bit longer. ?You would have had overblown hair metal acts and underblown "wanna be" corporate rock acts rulilng the roost (you know, sorta what we have today, except it's overblown grunge acts, or nu-metal acts, or you get the picture....). ?

Rock would have "died", essentially (just like it has countless other times in the cyclical music business), and awaited a good shot in the arm from someone who could make it relevant again.

If Grunge and especially Nirvana never happened guitar solos would still exist and people would still sing in high voices, two essential ingredients in rock n roll. Grunge did more to kill RnR than it did to save it.

I think that glam rock would still be popular

Less people would hate Guns N'Roses.

Ahhh.... but what would have made it relevant again? What kind of rock would have made rock n' roll relevant AGAIN?

Do you think that perhaps there would have been a slight break, and people would skip out all the random shit that came after 94... and there would have been an influx of complete and utter awesome rock n' roll and everyone would be happy again?

Did Nirvana... in "saving" RnR... actually in fact kill what could have been the best years of rock n' roll ever?


Jeez we're really diggin' in deep aren't we! :hihi:

You think wrong. Heavy metal is about a Romantic, Indo-European cultural revival, and epic ideals. Rock and roll had nothing to do with it.

Ya think? Well seein as the first metal band (Black Sabbath) were inspired by the Beatles and many after that by Led Zeppelin and Sabbath themselves, and the fact that pretty much the exact same instruments are used, I disagree.

That's a good question, but now you're asking for a view into an alternate time line and I'm just not existential enough to give you one.? I don't know what would have "revived" rock or if the dormancy would have just started earlier and lasted as long as it has.

I tend to THINK that, had Grunge (which means no Nirvana, No Pearl Jam,..and lots of others) not come around, we would've just started the dormancy earlier.? You could see some signs of that happening, anyway, just before Nevermind went mainstream.? But I can't say that, had the dormancy started earlier that someone else playing some other type of music might not have come along sooner to "revive" the genre...and led to a reniessance, of sorts.

But I can say that, since Nevermind, the pickings have been slim.? Some bands that I thought might bring rock BACK to prominence (Audioslave, The White Stripes, The Vinyls, etc) haven't really done what I thought they'd do.? Their material HAS been strong...but not strong enough to rest control away from the awful pop music that's invaded.? Not that that surprises me.? I mean...look at the late 70's and early 80's.? There was about a 10 year block of time when pop ruled, and slowly rock took back the ground it had lost, to about 1985-ish.? Then, in the early to mid 90's,? pop came back into prominence and has ruled since.? Again, it's a cyclical pattern that you can follow back dor decades....

Which, of course, means we're due for some rock and roll resurgance sometime soon.? And you can start to see it on the fringes, again....creeping it's way back in.? Hopefully, maybe, someday soon we'll get to see something (*cough* Chinese Democracy *cough*) come along and rip rocks balls back to the forefront of music....

Perhaps a better question would be: ?What if the hair scene didn't become a parody of itself and the bands put some thought into their songs? ?Hair metal was dying already, Metallica was helping kids rediscover black jeans a t-shirts and not zebra prints!

Why is grunge so despised on this board? ?Is it because they didn't dress like fags and prance around? ?It was scene about the music and not image.

Grunge was and still is rock.

But it is about the music as far as I'm concerned and Grunge music sucked, it was just 3-4 minutes of some guy moaning about how much he hates himself and how despite his millions and millions he's still a miserable old fuck. When I think rock I think of bands like GnR and the likes tearing society a new arse and just basically taking it apart not some guy moaning the whole time. And leaving guitar solos out of his music!

Nirvana does not equal all other bands from Seattle.  Mother Love Bone, Soundgarden, AIC, and Pearl Jam do so much more than "moan".  That we be like saying all Hair bands were just like Winger.

Yeah, November Rain sure was tearing society a new one wasn't it?

Gilld1... if all you're gunna do is just big up grunge instead of answering the question, then I suggest you just turn around, and walk outta here before someone drags you out.

Don't let the metaphorical door hit yer ass on the way out!


(Just for the record, I don't hate grunge... just not a huge fan)

The instruments don't matter; the notes do. Sabbath liked the Beatles because EVERYONE liked the Beatles back then, and they did do a lot of drugs (;)), but the musical structures are very unlike rock and roll. Granted, some early songs are rock, like Paranoid, but songs like Into The Void, Black Sabbath, or Electric Funeral are metal. The first wheel was kind of square-ish, you know.

Led Zeppelin is an odd one. They're a blues-rock band at heart, but they have metallish moments, like Immigrant Song, Achilles Last Stand, and the whole "epic" and "folk" feelings that songs like The Battle of Evermore, Black Mountain Side, and so on. Most bands that cite them as an influence probably admire the experimental element of their music, since there isn't a single style that one can put on Led Zeppelin, except "rock", but that's meaningless.

A lot of metal bands respect KISS ( :rofl:), so I wouldn't put too much weight on influences. When someone's work is 90%+ original, it doesn't matter where the influence is from.

Then, Eddie Vedder would be blamed for the start of the Grunge era.

Who da fuck are you, skynny girl?  I'm just giving food for thought and it looks like you're starving!

Nothing for me, I'd still have Stone Roses, Oasis, Gnr, Verve, The Who, Zeppelin so I'd be happy as larry

We probably wouldn't have Foo Fighters.. :-\

And we wouldn't have In Utero..... :nervous:

Who am I? Not "Skynny Girl". That's SKYNYRD Girl if you please. :hihi: 8)

And that attempt at an insult really was silly. If you're gunna insult someone, don't do it in simple riddles, just fucking do it!!

And the point of this thread was not to name a whole load of other grunge bands from Seattle. Yes we all know those bands exist, you don't need to point them out.

The actual point of this thread was to discuss what the rock world would be like IF the whole grunge thing never happened... that means if NO grunge band existed... ever. (yes I know I started off saying "what if Nirvana never existed?" but I changed it later on in the post).

We would be out of some great music.... :-\

The 80's rock scene was doomed...it got to big and bloated...some other dirty rocker woulda came and taken us away...either that or we'd all be listening to Rap and Pop :nervous: :confused: :nervous:

But they did exist you ignorant slut.  If those bands didn't exist then those of us with any taste at all would have missed out on some wonderful music.  So this thread is as irrelevant as most of your other posts and thoughts in general.

Yes I KNOW they existed you thread-ruining cunt!!

But that wasn't the fucking point of this fucking thread!!

Thanks a fucking bunch you moronic insular fuckhead, you've just succeeded in destroying a perfectly decent thread.

:rant:

Now get the fuck out of my thread! Leave it to people who AREN'T going to start fucking pointless cuntish arguments!!

I think Nirvana influenced music as well as pop culture-movies-Pulp Fiction, Clerks, and so on in the early 90's. I think alternative music still would have taken over, even without Nirvana-it was just a change music goes through-MTV also had a huge influence over what was played, what sold-once Nirvana hit, MTV wanted nothing to do with hair metal, glam-every record company then wanted the next Nirvana, or they signed any band that came from Seattle-I'm not sure if all this would have happened or not if Nirvana would have existed-don't forget Hanson and the Spice Girls were soon all over MTV, followed by the boy bands of '99-that it a tough and good question, though-it's funny, also how Spin magazine, Rolling Stone soon made fun of Poison, Motley Crue, and so on when they weren't selling records in the 90's-I like Smashing Pumpkins, but soon their record sales sank-same with Courtney Love, Spin Doctors, and so on-I loved Nirvana, love a lot of alternative, but I never liked the way the media and some bands of that era thought they were the greatest thing ever-GNR kind of got lumped in as a band of excess-the opposite of Nirvana-what a lot of grunge bands and atlernative bands forgot about was putting in a great performance and writing great music-but they gave me some great moments.

You really need to get a life.  Your thread?  You must have nothing going for you if you have to get so defensive about a thread.  Your language truly shows just how ignorant you are.  I feel sorry for you, chickenhead.

Ugh don't give me your pity!

I think you need to get yourself a life if you feel the need to attack other members of the board.

And my life is none of your business. Think what you like. At the end of the day you're just a bunch of words on a screen.

How about, you ignore him Elrothiel,

and gilld1, you go away.

Jim, I'm doing my best to ignore him, but its hard to ignore when I'm getting called an "ignorant slut" and "irrelevant".

And please don't call me that. I think I've asked you about 3 times now.

It's been more than three, hasn't it?

See, I was under that impression that you were an ignorant slut, and that you pretty much were irrelevant.

But, seeing as you're not, how's this:

You ignore him, and if he posts off topic again then his posts will be removed, somehow. Otherwise, take it to PM's. Otherwise... I'll just close this thread.

SkynyrdGirl, I think alternative music still would have happened without Nirvana-grunge might not have-I'm a huge REM fan, and they broke big in '91 with Out of Time-I still think that might have happened without Nirvana, but Nirvana influenced a lot of rock bands, in that genre, if that makes any sense-I think Nirvana will always be associated with that-it would have been different if they never existed-how different, I'm not sure-I know you suddenlt had Motley Crue stripping things down, going with a simple stage set, very different than what they are touring with this year-they are a perfect example of what happened to rock because of Nirvana, whether or not they will admit it-MTV used to show a clip of Tommy Lee in 1989 or 1990 saying they need someone to come and change everything, to start something new, and then the clip goes right to Smells Like Teen Spirit.

honestly i really don't care for grunge at all. i mean, nirvana's alright i geuss but bands like stained and shit i never did get into.

Ok, how's this for on topic?  If grunge never existed then Poison would still be selling out stadiums, Slaughter would have finally been recognized for their true genious, GNR would have never imploded, Ratt n Roll would still be rockin', ACDC would still sound the same, Fasterpussycat would have had a number one song, Bon Jovi would be in the HOF, Def Leppard would still suck, Eddie Vedder would have been a pro surfer, Layne Stayley would be alive and begging for spare change in front of Starbucks, and Kurt would still be dead. 

It doesn't matter what the next big thing was gonna be because the Hair scene was dying a slow and painful death.

Grunge and alternative were new, refreshing, different, powerful-hair metal was on it's way out-Bon Jovi has rebounded well. but those bands just seemed so out of place in the 90's-I'm still surprised Axl was such a big Nirvana fan, because the band went through that period when touring of having the backup singers, Teddy, and everything else-I hated when they did that, I don't care whose idea it was

Wasn't Tweeg a Grunge?

(http://www.jcaliff.net/tr/twmail.jpg)

EDIT - After a little research, half Grunge.. :yes:

Grunge damn near killed off rock. That's why rap is so big, they actually embrace stardom.

I think grunge was the death of Metal. Yes, the hair "ballad rock" Winger pussy shit was getting way out of hand. However, we still could enjoy hearing AC/DC, Kiss, Metallica, and GUNS N' ROSES on the radio and all metal bands were inspired to keep producing music because there was a market for it. Now bands like Megadeath can release an album and no one knows. Radio stations won't play it, stores don't promote them, MTV won't show a video (of course MTV only shows videos with black bootie shaking in it. Maybe Axl should put out a video that has nothing but Beyonce's bare ass!)
I respect the Grunge scene because music always needs a fresh coat of paint. However, because of Grunge we're delivering flowers to the graves of Metal.? :'(
Now, like in sweet revenge, Pearl Jam has released a new album and I've only heard the new song once on the radio. Grunge is now dead. Thank you. Let's move on.

good post, skelly! um well let's see, if nirvana never existed we would never have some hyped-up "legend" who shot himself in the head and got too much respect for bashing real music and creating some sloppy tunes. i think that's about it.

Members of GNR, both current and former, have lost friends through suicide and overdose through drug addiction-Axl was at one time a Nirvana fan (he wanted them to open for GNR, and wore a Nirvana hat and shirt)-and Slash is on record as calling them brilliant-hyped up legend?

I say no difference. Neil  Young was the first to do grunge  anyway, so the world would not have changed without Nirvana.

your point being...?

No arguments please... we had enough of those before... ::) No MORE arguments.