Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Would they?
I personally like Josh Todd's (Buckcherry) voice ALOT more then Scotts... Hell maybe more then Axl's.
Plus the demo or whatever it was that was put on the web with Josh on it sounded awesome... BTW anyone got a link to that?

No.

As much as I like Josh, Scott was obviously the right choice.

Number 1 album, 2 number 1 rock singles, Grammy award,  sold out tour and a double platinum record speak volumes...

JOsh is back where he should be, back with Keith and rocking with buckcherry.

True, Buckcherry does rock.

who wouldve wrote the songs?


seriously


Listen to Josh Todd, man cant write for shit.

Scott makes VR a relevant successful band.

With Josh Todd they wouldve been a joke.

Josh Todd has a good voice but Crazy Bitch is like that fuckin stripper girl song.  shudders...........

Have you heard the demo that was put on the net with Josh singing a song he wrote with Velvet during his audition?
It owns... ALOT more Guns and ALOT less STP (Post Grunge, Alt.)

Exactly.

You get members of a successful 80's band teaming up with the lead singer from a successful 90's band. With Josh Todd they would've gotten nowhere.

Plus Buckcherry are pretty much unkowns outside the US, well they're not popular in Australia that's for sure.

Where can we hear this demo?

Everything at this point is just speculation. How would any of us know how successful V.R. would have been with Josh Todd without seeing what would  have happened with him as lead singer. Personally I'm fairly happy with Scott. Of course I could do without his bi-polar probs, but that can't really be helped short of finding a new singer which I'm not sure would be good. I think Scott's a good choice!

Metallex u hit the nail on the head in the other thread.

He is a third rate Axl wanna be impersonator and people want Axl so bad they will settle for a welfare version.


do they win a grammy and have two number 1 rock singles with Josh

Im not a soothsayer but Id say probably not.

It was on this site a while back... I'm trying to find it but I fucking can't

No.

No, Weiland is much better.  Scott was in STP and did songs like Plush, Interstate Love Song, and Sex Type Thing.  Josh is in Buckcherry and did Lit Up and that's it (not that they aren't popular and have a few more good songs, just nothing that was massive and could compete with STP).  Personally, I love STP and GNR and think that a hybrid of both styles of music is what will make up the music scene for the next 5-10 years.

No, they would not done better with Josh Todd.

No..................

The album would have been better but they would not have had the sucess. I expended more from Scott and contraband was not very good at all. I was one of the first people that said they should get scott before they even had him in mind, and now its too bad they did pick him. They would have done the best with Izzy

Scott carries more of a "fame" aspect than Josh Todd.  But if Mike Patton would of joined VR? 

Uhhhhhhhhhhh................. H ell NO!

I think it got much more media attention with Scott on board than anyone else, and you also had a combo of interested GNR fans and STP fans-not everyone might have been a favorite of both groups, but were curious about this group

It might have been better as far as album quality ,But it wouldn't have been as dar as ablum sales  go .

I agree, I just think the Weiland factor helped sales-I would love to listen to the other demos they had with singers.

Let your feelings out D.  How would you feel if Mike Patton we're hired instead of Scott.  Come on, don't be shy. :hihi:

Just wondering, why do you characterize it as "too bad" they picked him?

Critical acclaim, hit singles, #1 album, Grammy award, year and half world wide tour..

All facts pointing to the correct decision being made.

I don't know about D, but I think Mike would've been an interesting choice, he's a great singer and certainly a wildcard.

But then I also think there's no way he would've fronted VR anyway, not after the circus that he thought of GN'R when he was on tour with them in 1992.

There was a rumor back in the day that he was offered a spot in VR and he turned it down.  Pattons to scatterbrained for VR, but his vocal ability would of been awesome for VR if he would of sticked to a rock platform vocal-wise.

Other than 'Lit Up', Josh Todd has never done anything that does it for me. Always sounds the same & seems to be happy being in a 'let's get this party started', 80's wanna be, should be Motley Crue's permanent opener type band.

As for Mike Patton. I think he's one of the greatest, but glad he didn't want to be in VR. It's kind of like Buckethead being in fakeGNR, Patton & BigB are far to out there doing there own thing to be part of a team in a rock n' roll band I think. It's not a slam or a bad thing, it's just who those guys are, they're almost too talented for any one thing to hold their attention that long.

If I remember correctly, he was offered an audition and turned it down. ?

Hybrid my ass... VR is all STP.
Jesus when I heard Sex Type Thing for the first time I could have sworn it was a new VR song.

i like stps first few albums..  but hate scot in VR... i would have much rather heard josh todd..  also for the people bashing his writing.. i think you are basing those statements on just a few songs.. crazy bitch and porno star are the only songs that have a ton of swears and what you would call cheesy lyrics... check your head,, borderline, drink the water, even ridin..which i think is there best song...  are very well written.. and are way better than anything vr has put out..   if you base your statements on 2 or 3  songs then after hearing get in the ring, anything goes, and used to lover her.. then you could say axl can't write either.. no need to even defend axls writing.. i'm just making an example.. also there are some pretty dumb lines a few vr songs.. i'll have to pull out the booklet for some examples.. but i remember someone posting them in another very similar thread

A lot of u have this  MIke Patton fascination but U gotta get out of the early 90's and get into fucking reality.


Mike Patton is washed up and a nobody in today's musical circles.

With Patton, radio and national mags wouldnt have gave a shit about VR.

Scott Weiland is a modern radio God, gave the band instant credibility and without him VR wouldnt be half of what they are today.

I know Scott insulted the big hero but get over it already, Scott is fuckin rock n Roll, outside Anthony Kiedis and Jon Bon Jovi he is the greatest rock frontman alive doing music.


FNM werent that big in their day and what have they done in 10 years?  NOTHING and its exactly what VR would've done.



Give Scott his props.

Scott was my third fav member behind Slash and Duff till i saw them in concert, I barely noticed Slash and Duff were on the stage cause my eyes stayed glued to Scott.

I immediately went and bought STP's Thank You and am sorry I never realized how amazing Scott and STP were.

they were fuckin amazing.

Yeah, I thought he was just ok, but after seeing him in concert fronting VR two nights in a row I was like :o

He's one hell of a frontman that's for sure : ok:

Josh Todd is a hell of a singer. ive seen him live and there shows are great. but josh wasnt like kicked out. he left becouse of the ego's of the other guys. i would love to here josh's stuff with VR but i dont think we ever will. besides scott is amazing, even better then josh and now we have BuckCherry and Velvet Relvolver. 2 amazing bands, how can you beat that.

I personally prefer Todd over Weiland.  And I damb sure prefer Buckcherry over STP.  So I personally think VR would be better with Todd, both vocally and lyrically.  However, I don't think you can argue they would've done better with Josh Todd than Scott Weiland.  VR's been a huge success the last couple years.  I don't think they'd really be any bigger with a different singer.

I think they made the right choice, no matter who they picked there would have always been someone saying they should have picked whoever..  Like take bach, I love his voice, but he had no part of writing some great tunes from skidrow, I remember he did a show and people were like your voice would sound great on those songs (meaning i remember you 18 n life, youth gone wild)

Oh please ::) Patton is far from washed up, in fact he's so prolific it's ridiculous... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Patton Just check out everything the guy's done. Mike Patton is the epitome of talent, he's a true artist. Which makes it all the less surprising that you would choose to ignore him.

And just out of interest, here's a little googlefight. Take note that Patton easily won Scott even though "he's a nobody" and Scott's in VR.
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22Mike+Patton%22&word2=%22Scott+Weiland%22


Bullshit. You're completely detached from reality, aren't you?


LOL. FNM were fucking HUGE, and you talking shit doesn't change that fact one bit. They haven't done anything in the last 8 years? No shit sherlock, they broke up! What's your point?

No offense to Mike Patton (he's fucking brilliant) or yourself, but FNM were never by any stretch of the imagination "HUGE".  If I remember correctly, no album cracked the Billboard Top 10...

what's fnm

Faith No More.

I was never a big fan, I knew who they were but they were far from HUGE

Wow. Just wow.  :o There's rock fans on here posting shit about Mike Patton & then using Jon Bon Jovi as an example of a great frontman. :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: Then not even knowing what FNM means in the middle of a Mike Patton discussion. D, you obviously don't know shit about shit, so quit posting stupid bon jovi stuff & learn how to be silent  when you don't know what you're talking about. This board website never ceases to amaze me with other peoples stupidity.

I remember faith no more, I just didn't have the initials click like GNR, NIN would.. Not like I sit around talking about them every day.. I just don't remember them as huge, huge bans you don't even have to listen to you just know about them because it's impossible to avoid.. I just remember epic in teh start of the 90's

I have to agree.? Mike Pattons name garners respect.? The man owns his own record label (Ipecac).? D, I'm sorry but you have lost your mind.? The man is an Icon (thats right, icon) in music circles.? Scott and Axl have nothing on the vocal abilities of Patton.

To be honest, I'm not that familiar with Faith No More's chart success; the image I have is only based on what I personally saw in the early 90s. Even though I was very young at the time. But what else was there back then, besides GNR, Metallica, Nirvana and Bon Jovi? I was under the impression FNM was at the very top, right behind those bands I mentioned. I don't think saying they were huge is stretching it...


Wow, I'm sincerely surprised - I actually never expected to agree with you on... anything.


Damn straight, even though comparing to Axl is difficult because his voice is so unique. But just listen to Patton sing something like Jizzlobber or Pig Latin (with The Dillinger Escape Plan) and then I Started a Joke... simply amazing versatility.

mike patton is fucking awesome, though live he doesnt really sound like he does on "the real thing" album but ill put that down to production, hes a awesome frontman. Has anyone seen the footage of him front flipping onstage at random?

Though the axl not having anything on his vocal abilites, i have to disagree, this is 80s early 90s axl im talking bout .....not the joke of today. I dont think ive heard patton do a scream like axl could live.

Scott, i used to respect the man, but having broadened my tastes and getting into more bands, he isnt that good, hes a fairly good frontman, but his vocals suck, his new image sucks and STP's first album is the only good album they did, i dont get why people love purple.

Bon jovi 110,000,000 albums sold

FNM  what 8 million?


yeah those guys were HUGE!

U p eople are hilarious.

cause u like a CD and a guys style, that doesnt make them HUGE in the whole scope of the musical landscape.

Commercially Patton aint shit and never has been shit therefore VR wouldnt have came close to the success Scott brought.

Didnt say the CD wouldnt be as good, but on a commercial level, they wouldnt have touched the success they had with Scott.

(on topic)........NO!!!!

Again, not bashing Mike or FNM by any means but their basic claim to fame is/was the video for "Epic"? causing so much BS with PETA and a remake of Lionel Richie's "Easy"...

Hardly huge..

I liken their success to that of someone like Primus', more of a commerical 1 trick pony.? Not because of their talent mind you, I just don't think too many "got it" so to speak.? Bad timing played a part as well, they were caught somewhere between the cartoon GNR had become and the onslaught on grunge...

Check this out.

Artistically would the CD be better with Patton? Maybe


but commercially they couldnt have done better than Scott.  Slash and Duff were after commercial success.

I dont think many artists release a CD not wanting it to sell.

People talkin all this shit bout Patton this and Patton that.

How many platinum records has he had since FNM's first record?'

case closed

The Numbers dont lie man.

I think you're missing the point. You said that Patton was washed up & a nobody. That's what people took exception too, because it's obviously not true. And if it were true, then why did VR ask him to audition? Stick to your dork rock & as your hero bonjovi would say, "have a nice day".  :peace:

when a musician isnt in the spotlight anymore, cant sell out a concert or has no hits and no one cares about them, they are.................... u got it, they are washed up!

get into reality and stop living in your bullshit fantasy land.

U made fun of me sayin JBJ was a great frontman


the numbers dont lie.

 ???

You say that with some certainty, but a more accurate statement is Slash and Duff went after the overall best guy for the band.  Commercial considerations are surely made, but theres a lot more to it than just saying they were after "commercial success" as if theres any real evidence behind it. 

As for Patton being a has-been, its kind of a bogus charge when he apparently doesnt care about about that kind of thing.  As far as I know, he still does his thing and is widely critically acclaimed, similar to Pearl Jam or Neil Young.  Theyre all true artists who put their music before fame or commercial succes, so the "has-been" label is really meaningless in my view.

FNR were ordinary at best.

Slash and Duff wanted success.

if they wanted to be artsy small club band they wouldve just grabbed Izzy and did theaters.

They wanted the best guy who could make them a Big Time band. Slash wanted to be in a big time band again.


u are right Patton is a "neverwas"

I am not talkin about nor do i give 2 fucks about "Critical acclaim"

we are talkin bout success

read the thread title and NO, VR would not have done Better with either of those guys over Scott.

they wouldnt have won a grammy, would not have gonemulti platinum and wouldnt have had 2 number 1 rock singles.


U patton followers drive me crazy.

what the fuck has he ever done?
Please!!!!!!!! someone tell me.

Thats a wild oversimplification. 

Im sure they wanted success, but they also wanted to form a great band.  That meant having a real lead singer and Scott is the obvious choice.  But your statement that commercial success was their #1 priority is baseless. 

Udont think they wanted commercial success?

u think they formed VR thinking........ Who cares if this sucks???

Wasnt it the positive reaction from the randy Castillo benefit that made them come back together?  Of course they wanted success, why the hell wouldnt they want success?

the main goal was to be in a band but im sure they picked their singer based on how great the singer could make the band which is why Stripper girl didnt get it.


To say a band forms without the goal of success is being prettygullable and naive.

A better question is if you actually bother to read the posts you quote.






Now whats the positive reaction of a live audience have to do with commercial success? 


Thanks for reiterating my exact point.

youre right to a point? - however they remained huge, thats right huge in Europe and Down under right until the end. And 'one trick poney'? Hardly - one of the reasons they didnt have sustained success (in the US at least) was because their albums are so diverse - they never made the same record twice, and hence alienated the more casual of fans.

And for those saying Patton is washed up? Heard of Tomahawk, Fantomas, Bjork duets etc?
Sure, not commercial, but vital and interesting rock music - on the fringes where he prefers it..

And what's Patton ever done? He had this little band called Faith No More, and they were one of the greatest of their era - overlooked, but great nonetheless

I only remember one song being big in the united states and that was epic.. I remember that fish flopping around in the video and the piano playing at the end... Commercially from what I remember they were more of a one hit wonder here.. That doesn't negate talent, just saying HUGE is GNR, AC/dc Metallica, aerosmith nirvana, not faith no more..

Dunno, maybe they were just bigger in Europe then. Besides Epic they had Easy, From Out of Nowhere and Midlife Crisis. Plus to a smaller degree: Digging the Grave, A Small Victory, Evidence, Falling to Pieces, Ashes to Ashes, etc...

Whether they were huge or not is just semantics anyway. If some of you reserve the word only for bands of such extreme magnitude as AC/DC and Metallica, that's fine.

Faith No more opened for GNR in 92. THey were /are more than a one hit wonder band.? Back in the day, GNR, Metallica, Nirvana, PJ and Bon Jovi were huge, Faith No More had one hit, but a pretty big fan-base. I remember I would listen to this band before they toured with GNR.

I think the reason why FNM didn't really become as big as Soundgarden is because they really didn't belong to any movement. I saw SG and FNM in 92 and the crowed got much more excited with FNM. Soundgarden were a part of the grunge scene. That pretty much secured their success.

As for Josh Todd, I never liked him. There's no way VR would've done better with him than with Scott. Weiland had the appearance, charisma and success. As a frontman, he beats Todd in at least 9 out 10 categories.

Notice I said commercial one trick pony..no slight to their talent


Again noted with this: "I just don't think too many "got it" so to speak"..

I'll qualify my statement, never huge in North America...

We are still talkin bout "Success"

would VR have been more successful so that goes straight to commercial success,touring success,musical success.

If Contraband sucked, u wouldnt have 2 number 1 singles from it.

What makes me laugh though is how when people were defending Mike Patton they used the phrase "critically acclaimed" which is hilarious cause if the critics shit on somebody u like the critics then have a weird way of not mattering.

just like when people argue with me about Bon Jovi, all of a sudden 110,000,000 albums sold, sold out arenas and stadiums everywhere,countless hit singles etc seem to NOT MATTER? for some interesting reason.

Patton Im sure is a talented guy and vocalist but Scott Weiland is a talented guy,vocalist and more famous and has more cred than Patton.

People can say what they want to about Scott Weiland but he has rock cred and radio respects the fuck out of this guy, so u can bash Scott all u want but he was and is the best choice and a huge reason VR are so successful.

Booker Im commenting that VR wanted commercial success, had they not, they would've signed an indy label deal, wouldnt have made videos, wouldnt have toured for a year and a half.

U are acting like they wanted to be a garage band rockin out at each other's mansions on weekends and accidentally became successful.

when they formed VR I guarantee u they had being successful as a major goal. U are appearing to act like that wasnt in the equation or discussion.

 D, I think these comments are what people took exception to. Patton has been actively making music this whole time. He scores movies, has multiple bands, has a label, does shows, etc......Think of him as the buckethead of vocalists, an extreme talent that is maybe a little to goofy/experimental for the average music fan. He's just not that interested in being a pop star. I guarantee music mags would've been all over Patton hooking up with VR, those types know exactly who he is. Again, you never answered my question. If Patton is such a nobody/washed up/has been, then why did VR want him to audition? Obviously someone thinks highly of him in the VR camp.
 
 With that being said, I think VR ended up with the best rock frontman they could of hoped for. Weiland has that commercial appeal while still being edgy/experimental enough to make it interesting. He's perfect for VR & I'm much happier they ended up with him instead of Patton. But at the same time I don't dis Patton because he doesn't make pop rock music or sellout arena's. That's not the only way to judge if artists are washed up or not.

Washed up   by commercial standards.

I dont doubt the guy still probably makes great music, I was sayin that commercially he no longer matters therefore Im not sure VR wouldve got the same attention.

Scott had a public drug battle and court cases, is a respected frontman, so he was the better choice to front a commercial rock band.


Would CB be better with Patton? I dont know, its impossible to say one way or the other, but I think Scott was the best choice and no one else couldve made VR bigger than they are now.

I feel so fucking stupid,. I grew up in the era that faith no more would have been big I remember epic (and only epic) but the name is sparking nothing for me.. I remember just about any big band's frontman freom that time in rock

thats what im sayin, I listened to every rock band just about in the late 80's to mid 90's

Mike Patton is very low on the guys ive heard of list. why is that u ask?

If he is SOOOOOOOO amazing,how come a lot of people wouldnt know Mike Patton if he walked in a room with a tshirt on that said "Im Mike Patton"?

it was living colour type fame in america...

True ,but the same could be said about almost evrybady from back in the day with todays youth.

he could pass myself and d too

nonsense. Patton, although he hasnt had the same commercial success (you rely on this solely - any manner of terrible artists/bands could be stated if you apply this rationale), has a heck of a lot more 'cred' than Weiland.

A problem (rightly or wrongly - fairly or unfairly) thats dogged Weilands entire career, has been a lack of "cred". Initially he was seen as a poor mans Eddie Vedder, and I suspect Axls 'fraud' statement was a direct reminder of this sentiment. Dont get me wrong, I rate Weiland and believe he's the right guy for the job.

Patton however, has been skirting on the fringes of edgy, diverse, interesting and unique music for years now. Too much cred, if anything, for VR.

I never understand why people get put off by a comment a musician makes?? If I like someone who gives a fuck if they say something bad about another artist I like.. That's his business...  To this day I'll don't  know if slash was there, but if he wasn't and axl made these things up then to scott he called him a fraud..

Scott fucked up in the "Plush" Video rippin Vedder off a little too hard but He totally redeemed himself from that and personally I think STP own Pearl jam.

I grew up as a kid listening to all rock music in that era too. FNM were never that huge in Australia besides of course their pop single Easy (come on it's pop!).

So how exactly did Scott "fuck up" in the video????  If I recall Scott had short orange or pink hair and a goatee in that video.. I don't remember Vedder ever looking like that..  And the song doesn't sound anything like Pearl Jam or Vedder.... Anyone that ever made that comparrison was way off base.

Scott used some of Vedders mannerisms from the "Jeremy" video, thats what started comparisions, plus Plush does sound eerily simular to Pearl Jam. Its an amazing song though. It doesnt mean Scott is a fraud. He just copied Eddie's mannerisms a bit. Otherwise, I agree STP did own Pearl Jam.

Josh Todd has very little credibility outside of anywere besides MetalSludge or Blabbermouth. He is an unknown and for good reason. Mike Patton is a little more creative but he doesnt connect with the public like a Trent Reznor and Weiland or Axl Rose can.

You can bet your ass there would not be a disco feel to the new album if Josh was in Scotts shoes.

I have to disagree with you there mate, Faith No More had plenty of popular songs (aside from they're cover of Easy) in Australia - Epic, Falling To Pieces, Midlife Crisis, Ricochet, Digging The Grave, Evidence, Ashes To Ashes. They even headlined a huge festival gig in 1995 (Alternative Nation I think it was called) so they were pretty popular in their day.

Midlife Crisis is a great tune......

Your comparing Josh Todd with Scott Weiland?  You have to be kidding.

they probably would have more naked chicks and strippers at their shows and videos if josh Todd was the singer ;D
which is what is important

Done better? No

Sounded more like a kick ass rock band? Yes

It was a total marketing decision.  Knowing that has always taken away a bit of VRs shine for me...it has that same corporate feeling that a put together boy band has....

I don't know why anyone rags on weiland, the man did great with his band stp, he has a really good voice.. It's not an axl chris cornell type voice but it suits his style... I think he is not only a good lead singer but a frontman as well...  It's a supergroup, they usually have people in the band from other famous bands..
I look at it this way, if he joins vr would josh todd be thinking about buckcherry, isn'tit better he didn't join and now his band's fans have their lead singer back?

Josh Todd is ok in his own rights but Scott Weiland adds more on every level.   Josh Todd has nothing in his catalogue that even comes close to  songs like "Dead & Bloated", "Plush", "Sex Type Thing", "Interstate Love Song" etc.etc.etc.

Weiland's songwriting skills alone make him 10x more valuable.  It's like trying to compare Nickelback to a classic like Alice in Chains, the first is disposable the latter is indispensable.

Josh todd would have made that band 10000000000 times better than Wieland did..... Josh Todd is a better song writer and front man... not to mention hes not a David Bowie Iggy Pop Wanna be like Shit wieland is....

really better song writer... Stp has had major hits played every day since they began, and he is great live... Where is the buckcherry catalog today.. I remember they had one big usa hit and I never her it today unlike weiland who has hits played every day on regular rock stations to classic rock.

I can list quite a few singers I think are better than Scott, but yet, Scott was a good choice.

yeah they only had realy one hit on the radio.. "Lit Up"  but BOTH album that they had were solid good albums.. Im glad they didnt get alot of radio play anyways  most radio friendly music i dont like...

Thier new album came out in NA today.... check it out!

Scott was the perfect choice.  He is a great frontman.  Not many better.

I knew it was coming out... crazy bitch reminds me of a snakepit part two song.. If people are BC fans then they should be happy josh todd didn't get with VR..  Well matt did say no stripper girl, this could be why he lost out :hihi:

yeah in a way im glad BC is back... too much drama if he would have joined VR... at least BC are putting out new music and they dont have the drama and headlines and infighting anymore that VR has.... BC is all about the music.... and i know Josh Todd would have never slandered Axl in a public statement  either.... Josh Todd and BC just plain rock.... VR is too much drama and the music isnt that good anyways... any of BC's cd's blow away contraband.

I agree, does VR have anything as good as Lit Up?  I say no.  I like Buckcherry a lot.

agreed...

Slither shits all over Lit Up : ok:

Sorry but it truely doesn't.
I'm a huge Velvet Revolver fan but "Lit Up" is just an awesome song.
"Brooklyn" is also a sweet song of there new album.

I think that BC don't even want mainstream success. If they did they wouldn't make videos not suitable for TV. (i.e. Crazy Bitch)

This is your opinion vs mine.
I like Lit Up, but Slither is a better song in my opinion, so there ya go! : ok:

I feel the same way I like slither better then lit up and definetly better then crazy bitch. but I do like the songs..


Honestly about josh slandering axl in public, you don't know what could have happened if he felt axl made up shit about him and sided with slash.. Also half the drama in vr is made up rumors... I am yet to see all this fighting and drama as any kind of fact.. Finally they toured a year and a half they released music mid 2004, another song in 05, they did shows up intil this past new years.. An album every few years is quite normal, so this is not some big wait in between albums.. Vr members have money there is no urgency to break out albums as fast as some up n coming group that is yet to make it big.. if I get one album every two years I am happy, plus a year or better tour..

It was just very unprofessional for Scot to do what he did. It wasnt his place to get involved in GnR in fighting. I think he should have been a bigger man and just let Slash speak for himself..(which he has yet to do)..... the drama may be made up rumors or may not be but that is the drama i wouldnt like surrounding one of my favorite bands (slash quitting, duff in rehab, lawsuits, all that crap).. Rumors or not nobody realy knows whats going on with VR right now and Im just saying that it takes away from what a good rock band should be.. IMO.. Im not trying to take anything away from what VR have done.. They have done alot in a short amount of time... I really do like Josh Todd as i feel he has stayed true to his music and doesnt get caught up in all the bullshit that he could have been submitted to had he joined a band like VR..... In the end it should all be about the music and being a great rock n roll band... VR IMO will always be a "rival" or "side project" to Axl and Guns n Roses...  VR would have been great with Josh Todd but in the end im glad BC are back together as i like them better....

yeah but all the drama is basically metal,slduge bullshit that only we notice.. Regular vr fans aren't even aware of this, just us freaks.. I am also glad for josh that he got back with his band, everyone wins..

hell yeah... theres more than enough room for bands like Buckcherry and VR!

they wouldn't have done better as far as sales and what not with josh

BUT

they wouldn't have sucked as much with him either.  :hihi:


SCOTT SUUUCCCKKKSS! STICK WITH STP!

but stp is a million times more accomplished and successfull then BC, how does scott suck.. His songs are played day in and day out on the radio till this day...  You might hear lit up if someone requests it... you can't even say well new kids or nsync had tons of radio play because once their trend was over you heard nothing of their music.....

If josh joined vr you'd all be like he's trying to be like axl :hihi:

Coz STP was a Radio friendly pop/grunge band.....Thats why they were on the radio.. has nothing to do with who is more successfull or accomplished... It depends on who your target audiunce is... STP wrote radio and video friendly songs/albums...

BC's only "hit" was about snorting coke ... hmmm... Imagine trying to get "dirty mind" or "Slit my wrists" on the radio.... it wouldnt happen....?

BC have a VERY large base of fans and that says alot for not getting alot of radio play.. thats the way it should be in imo....





And that is why i wouldnt like to see him in VR.... I think they would have made a bad ass band with Josh but like i said VR wil always be compared to GnR and who ever they have as a front man is "axl's replacement for the original GnR"

Josh Todd doesnt need this kind of drama that would come with being in VR... He has been and is true to his own music and to BC.

Buckcherry are more like AFD era Guns n Roses than Velvet Revolver are....
Pure, Energized dangerous Sunset Rock n Roll.

both are good bands and Josh with VR would have made good music but the drama would make it suck dick.

Lit Up isnt even a very good song. I dont understand the hype Buckcherry gets. Well actually Buckcherry gets zero hype outside of message boards. There videos suck so do most of their songs.

Buckcherry have no comparison to STP or any other 90's band.

Listen every song on the radio is radio friendly.. What was scom or pc or wttj or nr or ycbm..? Stp had very good songs and people loved them it's that simple.. The point is they have had longevity, how many bands can say they have 5, 6 7 songs on constant rotation on classic rock radio stations..
Where is the rule that says you are a true success if you are underground or not mainstream as you'd like that you are doing it the right way..

Then GN'R is the biggest fraud cause they were mtv's bitch all through the 80's and early 90's, but wasn't their music still great..

Buckcherry has 1 known song that has long fizzled out in longevity...  STP has accomplished 1000xs what josh todd could ever dream of.. These abdns that can't become big mainstream or get in one year out the other the fans always say they like ti better underground or they don't want to be mainstream.. It's crock they all want to sell tons of records and be big./

BC did sell tons of records and they are big...

either way that you wanna say it or break it down.. they were both great bands and i prefer Josh in BC over VR for the reasons i stated earlier. and i think Scot is a total poser. look at how many "images" hes tried to go for... first hes a grunge, then hes a rocker, then a punk and now hes david bowie....

I don't care what he looks like or acts he has long said his influences are frontmen like iggy and bowie.. As long as he sings and does his thing I am happy..

Buckcherry is not big and Josh Todd writes terrible lyrics. i cant believe you would make fun of Scott then pretend Josh Todd is better. Check the video "ridin" on Yahoo music. Actually check all their videos. They look like they were done with a 1995 sony camcorder. Im supposed to think they are big?

i have seen the videos... If you dont like em or think that they were big good for u.. im not gonna try to convince you how big or great they are.. but you know enough about them to know thier songs and videos....   Im not "pretending" anything... Josh Todd is a better singer, songwriter than Scott is... Its my opinion

Actualy i never heard of Buckcherry until visiting GNR and other message boards 2 years ago. I knew Lit Up when it was on radio, but i didnt care who the band was. The song is mediocre because of bad lyrics.

Thats too bad... you should check em out if your a GnR fan you might like em.... check out "Dirty mind" on the 1st album... the entire album is good.

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Its a week old but at blabbermouth.net an artcile is up detailing that Josh Todd ( Buckcherry) and Kieth Nelson in 2001 after thier band had broke up , became involved in what would become Velvet Revolver. I remember others in my record store detailing the story of how Todd and Slash jammed to a cover of " Welcome to the Jungle " back in 2001 or 2002 .

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? I sadly can't help but wonder what might have been had McKagen and Slash not let Todd go . Would the team up with part of Buckcherry been awesome or been better than Velvet Revolver ?? What do you think ?

I think Weiland is a better singer/songwriter than Todd.....so no i don't think it would've been as good.

Weiland did alot af arranging and prodcuing on Contraband didn't he? And love him or hate him....Weiland is contorversial and outspoken....he brings alot of attention to VR : ok:

Weiland was and is the best choice for VR.

I would have prefered it if Josh and Keith joined up with the ex-gunners.

Not sure if I have chimed in on this post that just won't die but Weiland is a great frontman... Buckcherry were ok... But STP were great.....

                   Personally...Buckcherry blows VR outta the water even though I love Slash and think he's the ultimate Legend. Commercial wise...yeah VR beats Buckcherry and thats not gonna change due to the fact STP/G'n'R is the primary fan bases of that band.

                  Theres just more Buckcherry songs that are better " Porno Star , The Movies , Lit Up , Ridin , Time Bomb , and Carosoul "  to me.

True True True.... Plus No one wants a second Guns N' Roses.... You could try as hard as you wanted but you couldn't get the real thing back... Plus I happened to be an STP and A GNR fan before I found Velvet Revolver. I  :love: Scott Weilands voice...

Scott has always had different styles, look no further than STP's albums for that. All those "images" you just listed are different styles Scott portrays across any single STP album.

and he gets eveny more diverse when you listen to 12 Bar Blues...although he does alot of experimental shit on there : ok:

who gives a shit about videos. its all about the music. in the end when you buy a album does every song have a video with it? no

buckcherry are awesome and i think the lyrics are awesome. Buckcherry are more true to rock music than VR are.

I personally would take Buckcherry over STP or VR any day.  I think they're songs are much better musically, and I also like Todd's lyrics better than Weiland's.

i love buckcherry and i olove velvet revolver, i love that they are seprate entities. They are both pretty damn high in my book

Scott has much more to offer.  His songwriting skills far surpass Todd's and his vocals are much more unique.   The problem is Velvet Revolver have the right talent they just didn't use it.  Other than "Slither", and maybe "Fall to Pieces" this stuff is all disposable b-side worthy musical gunk.  The first album sold well due to the hype of who the band members were and a strong single in "Slither".   The next one better kick ass or this will most likely be the end of VR. 

sometimes i think Scott may be to 'artistic" for his own good :hihi:

seeing the making of "Crazy Bitch", josh todd may be a bit more fun :hihi: :rofl:

I think Todd's vocals are more unique than Scott's.  Who sounds like Josh Todd?

I think Tood is better on both fronts.

              Could you imagine Todd/Slash on " Welcome to the Jungle "  ?  I'd love to have heard that.

It's hard not to wonder what could've been.  Contraband, to me, is the best pure hard rock album to be released since, ironically, Buckcherry's debut album in 1999.  Weiland is a great musician and writer, but it's hard not to salivate when you imagine Josh Todd's attitude and style combined with Duff, Slash and Matt.  I think that an album with Todd, Slash, and Duff writing songs would've been closer to the original GnR sound.  Josh Todd has the swagger and attitude that epitomizes the 80s Sunset Strip sound

I'm all lit up again, on the couch, in my bed, oh yes I'm all, lit up again, flyin, I love the cocaine, I love the cocaine :beer:

I'd put all three Buckcherry albums on at least the same level as Contraband.

The faces he makes, his poses. Total Vedder impersonations in my opinion.

To lay this topic to bed.


Scott Weiland/VR number 1 album double platinum, top videos and singles.


Buckcherry Debuted at number 48, no videos to be seen.


Weiland has more rock cred and is more commercial and famous.

Weiland easily the best choice.

I don't think the question is who is more famous and commercial.  Todd can't compete with Weiland there.  But just because you had a #1 album and videos doesn't mean you're a better frontman.  There are plenty of bands in recent years who've had #1 albums and still completely suck.

CLOSE THIS TIRED ASS THREAD PLEASE.  IT IS HORRIBLE AND HAS BEEN DISCUSSED 10 BILLION TIMES.  Next, Baz vs. Scott part 10,000.  Just kidding.  I love VR.  But I must admit, Josh Todd's vocals are exactly what I would want if I were going to start a new hard rock band.  He reminds me of Bon Scott as well some.  Anyway, lock this tired thread please........................ : ok:

I dont agree Rob.

Commercial Success and how many records u sale and how many hits u have matters and is a great measuring stick.

how can u be a great frontman if people think u suck and dont buy your shit?

that makes no sense.

I think when it comes to accolades its a matter of quality over quantity.  5 million little girls can buy a Britney Spears album and my opinion of her wouldn't change a bit.  But if Axl were to come out and say he really dug her last album I'd probably check it out.  Album sales don't matter that much to me.  I'd put more stock in the opinins of my fellow GN'R fans than the record buying public as a whole.

Yeah dude but this is where your logic is goin haywire.

2 million little girls didnt buy VR's album.

I didnt see any kids at the VR show I attended.

Scott is a better frontman,lyrically,vocally,style wise, originality.


Josh Todd doesnt sell records or tickets.

the buckcherry songs ive heard have no substance whatsoever and I cant relate to any of it.

Scott brings it on every end.

Good point, D.  The people buying VR albums are for the most part people who's musical opinions and tastes I respect.  I think this thread has kinda ran its course.  Bottom line is its pretty much opnion when it comes down to it.  I prefer Todd you prefer Weiland.  No disputing Weiland is more successful, he definitely is.  I still like Todd better.  He sells tickets and records to me, so he's awesome in my book.  But I can definitely see how people can really dig Weiland too.  They're both really good frontmen in my opninion.

Can we put this thread to bed now kids?

All in favor, say aye.

Aye   : ok:

 :P

What substance did any of the songs on AFD have, really?  Most of them were about getting fucked up and saying fuck you to everyone, some lovesongs thrown in.  And that album is the standard to which most GnR fans hold them in everything they do.  Josh Todd fits more perfectly into that attitude and style than Weiland.

Check Your Head off Buckcherry's first album probably has more substance than anything on AFD.  This isn't a knock against AFD, but it's a strictly sex, drugs and rock n roll album, heady subject matter isn't its strong point

I've yet to come across anyone who thinks Todd sucks.  A lot of people don't know who he is.  This has as much to do with marketing and label politics as anything else.  Buckcherry is a throwback to Sunset Strip rock, and debuted in an era when there wasn't much market for their type of music.  The only album they released on a major label that got any push did go gold and sold respectably.  This was in 1999, when their style of music wasn't that popular.  GnR's Live Era, released the same year, sold worse than Buckcherry's album did.

If anyone's logic's skewed, it's yours.  Buckcherry's debut album sold as well or better than the recent albums released by Slash, Duff, and Weiland before they formed VR.  VR still would've sold records with Josh Todd, maybe he wasn't as well known before the band, but VR received a huge push from RCA and the songs with Todd would've been more reminiscent of old GnR than VR. 

There are many great bands that never achieved huge commercial success.  Just take a look at Hanoi Rocks, whose punk-blues rock fusion and glam image, combined with better music than most of their peers, should've resulted in more commercial success and album sales than they had.  Now do you really believe that Bret Michael and CC Deville are better than Michael Monroe and Andy McCoy?  They sold a lot more records afterall

               Everyone wonders why Velvet Revolver was able to sell so well..you had 2 groups who merged to buy that album for the most part. There was ex-STP fans and ex-G'n'R fans. Buckcherry as others pointed out haven't had the push and exposure a Velvet Revolver has had. No VH1 specials , MTV "Behind the Video " or Behind the Music special to sell albums ! But I will say this..." 15 " ranks up there beside "Contraband " as an album. Plus Buckcherry has more tunes thats playable compared to VR.


                           
                             

If i had to have a Poison Greatest Hits or a Hanoi Rocks Greatest hits, u are damn right Id take Poison.

Poison are considered a joke now for whatever reasons but they had some alright songs.


whats so special about Mike Monroe?

Reel it in fellas, keep it on topic please.

for all the weiland fans bashing buckcherry for not being able to write songs... could someone please tell me what the hell wieland is talking about in this verse?

Hands are shakin got your finger on the trigger
Jesus ain't complainin gonna figure it out
Somebody raped my tapeworm abortion
Come on motherfuckers and deliver the cow

i think more sensible things have come out helen keller's mouth.. i'll take a song about sex, drugs or rock n roll over that crap any day..  infact that verse... might be the worst verse in any song ever.. what a waste of great music created by slash and the boys

End this dumbass thread.  Please!!

Weiland writes about things and usually there are a few topics all combined together in a song. Only Weiland knows what it truely means and i think he said he enyos seeing what meanings others find in his songs (I think it was him anyway :nervous: ) ...my guess is that his withdrawl from drugs is a big part of that verse : ok:

dive into it man disect the lyrics you'll be amazed with the symbolism Scott portrays, unless, of course, you enjoy the blatant lyrics Todd throws out....to each their own :peace:

I love Weiland's voice, as well as Todd's. Weiland is a better frontman IMO. Hey, just for shits and giggles, what would VR sound like with, who I feel is though has one of the most amazing voices...Chris Robinson? lol, i know, i know.

I liked Josh Todd better when he was in the Black Crowes and his name was CHRIS ROBINSON.

I was excited for Travis Meeks being the frontman and would like to actually hear that audition someday....but Weiland is a perfect fit : ok:

Hmmm, one born and bred in the OC and the the other about as southern fried as Colonel Sanders.. ::)

               I've never really heard Hanoi Rocks so no clue really. I do have Posion's Greatest Hits.

                     Josh Todd just seems a natural. If I was Axl and he does intend to do a US Tour , I'd get Buckcherry to open. Because I'd love to here an Axl/Josh song togethor.

                         According to Blabbermouth.net Buckcherry has signed with Atlantic Records and they plan to push them heavy. The president claims that it was a good signing for the Label and showed that with what little exposure Buckcherry has gained a following with its release of " 15 ".

^^
Ya I actually hear Crazy Bitch regularly on the Radio these days.
There's some great songs on 15 that would be awesome singles... My personal favorite is Brooklyn. Carousel is perfect for a single... Hell, anything is good except for Next 2 You which is a blatant rip off of that Jet song.

seems like weiland was only good for 2 albums in his career core and purple, since then he became gay and repetetive
im home im wrong and he will surprise us in the next album, but i doubt it

seems like Weiland was good for more than 2 albums because No.4 and Tiny Music were awesome albums too, as was his solo CD, whether they got airplay or not.

i always thought that josh todd would have been the best fit for vr.. but after seing Bas on stage with axl last night.. i'm convinced Bas would have been the best choice.. he was unreal.. i thought he even out shined axl during the duet..

          So after meticulously reading through all eight pages of this thread, i think i can talk about a few things. Number One , i'm not really sure about the ages of those on this board so maybe there is a generational gap here, since when does rock radio give anyone artistic credibility, not bashing stp for their radio play, but if vr chose someone like chad kroeger, the enitre knowledgable music community would take it as a joke. Not trying to offend any nickelback fans, but all they try to do is get radio airplay. And about buckcherry, i love 15, and there other records, but all they are is a sex, drugs, and rock and roll band. nothing they write is profound, just kick ass rock, kinda like ac/dc, at least on afd gnr showed glimpses of lyrical brilliance on a deep level, buckcherry couldn't even begin to write a song with the honesty of scom.
          Another thing that kinda irks me, the way people will defend scott, the man is a shadow of his former self, look at some pics from the 90's, he was the kinda guy you didnt wanna look at wrong, and rehab or not all he seems like now is a heroine addicted skeleton, with a decent voice, but none of the recordings off contraband came close to the vocal performance on the first few stp albums.  Contraband wasn't nearly as dynamic or musically solid as afd, and while i know the jury kinda hangs on uyi, almost everything on there is good in someway, I think if anything the outrageous videos turned off most people. I hope libertad shows some musical growth while still rocking the shit outta my speakers, but i really doubt it, i mean honestly, pharrell, thats great for snoop, but a rock band, not really sure what they will gain out that, if they got someone like rick rubin, who not only turns shit into gold, look at the chili peppers, they could really grow, until they change, slash will always be axl's axeman, and scott they guy who fucked up one of the greatest alt/grunge bands off the nineties.
       i know this is kinda sprawling but i just wanted to say a few more things. Mike Patton from fnm is amazing, and to further my earlier point, who cares if hes on the radio or mtv.
i love stp gnr vr fnr and buckcherry
peace out
raven

Dont you think Baz was cheesy doing the head banging and holding his clenched fist in the air while singing? He has all the moves of Steel Dragon from Rock Star. Not very original there.

What the hell is cheesy about that.  If that's what he does when he's getting into the music then that's what he does.  There's nothing wrong with headbanging.  Bach is an awesome live frontman.

and Bach was rocking the world with Skid Row long before the Rock Star movie was even thought of :hihi:

Steel Dragon had some good songs.  : ok:

I had never heard of Buckcherry before... they certainly haven't broken any records here in Belgium...
I just watched Lit Up and Crazy Bitch on youtube... those are some mediocre songs. Don't get me wrong, they're fun to listen to, raw, rock'n'roll and whatnot; but they are all pretty basic variations on some standard blues oriented rock riffs. Nicely done, but nothing you're average local, bar playing, middle-aged, amateur band can't do (better). Gotta love the style and image though! And thumbs up to the lead guitarist for some nice solo's too...

Not an STP fan or anything, but weiland has better songwriting abilities than the buckcherry guy and he has proven that. As for being a better frontman, dunno... Josh Toddler might seem less of '' to the mainstream public but in the end we've all come to expect something, I dunno, 'more' from Slash N' Duff than average bluesrock, right? In that respect, I'm happy that they chose Scott... Josh seems more fit for a 'Slash's Bluesball' kind of endeavour -> kickass fun rock; not for a real music project like VR.

lit up & crazy bitch are great bar tunes, kind of throw money in the juke box get drunk with friends and have a good time.. unlike pc or scom where the entire bar is singing along..

Hahahaha, in keeping with that line of thinking I'd like to point out that none of you have heard a note of the album Chinese Democracy but it doesn't stop some of you retards from hailing it as the album that will revolutionize rock and sell a quarter billion albums.

Weiland is in VR because it's a good business move. He's a great singer, and was part of one the 90's biggest band. Josh Todd would have been a better singer if they were just looking to milk GnR's past glory by totally copying it but something tells me they didn't think an 80's revival band would have been quite as popular.

As for Patton, well...I remember a year where you couldn't turn on mtv without seeing the video for epic. It got just as much play as November Rain or You Could Be Mine did when they were out. Just because Patton chooses not to be part of mainstream hit making chart topping music doesnt' make him less of a singer. Weiland and Todd aren't fit to lick his asshole when it comes to pure singing ability. Actually, neither is Axl to be honest. Patton just doesn't have the big rock guy frontman personality which obviously makes him a bad choice for a group looking to top the charts.

Lol, I always think they are amongst the worst lyrics ever as well. Whats it all about? Christ, sometimes I can even listen to that album because of the atrocious lyrics. See.... Big machine, Spectacle, Suckertain Blues, well, most of it actually. Its quite apparent the man is on drugs. And not ones that id care to indulge in either thx. Whats he on ketamine?

why is everyone obsessed with lyrics, can't you just rock out to music without thinking about words..  I do it with so many things like metallica, or ac/dc.. I like to just have a good time, I think ballads should make some sence..

But its nice to go to a gig, or the shower or whatever and have a singsong, I cant do that when the lyrics are so toe-curlingly embarrassing.

Dont get me wrong tho, Contraband rocks, and the ballads are actually pretty good lyric wise.

When I saw vr a few times I was singing big machine, it was so fucking fun live.. Maybe not  agreat album song but kicks ass live.. I think he's just one fo those wacky guys that uses words that aren't direct.. You have to kind of sit there and think about it..

You know NUGNR lyrics arent nothing to write home about for something that has been worked on since 94 either. TWAT has some ordinary lyrics as does IRS.

TWAT and The Blues have some of the best lyrics of any GnR songs.  Saying they've been worked on since 1994 is disingenous too, since those songs haven't been worked on since then you have no idea how long it took Axl to write the lyrics for any of the new songs