Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Everyone knows that a record label has to approve a CD before it can be released.

Im not sure if it was ever confirmed but there was a report that Axl had submitted CD once and the  label made him go back and redo it.

I think the record label wasnt happy with Chinese Democracy *not cause it wasnt great* but music has changed so much since Axl last made a CD.

GNR are not a singles band.

GNR are about making amazing albums, great songs but they arent exactly a singles band.

SCOM the only number 1 single, PC was a hit,NR,DC were hits but they never thrived off the single.

Anyway I think the label tried to make Axl got back in and record some 3 minute radio friendly hits and Axl balked and refused which led to this huge stand still.


I think Axl to prove a point to the record label leaked the Demos.

Is it a coincidence everything was airtight, all of a sudden we get a few leaks and now things are rolling?

I dont think its coincidence.


Most of the great albums and music of all time was shunned by record labels who dont know shit and are looking for an easy profit.

I think the response to the demos woke up Geffen showed them how wrong they were and now have green lighted CD and thats why things are rolling.

they aren't a singles band? ???

ISE
WTTJ
SCOM
PC
NT
Patience
DC
LALD
NR
YCBM
KOHD
Yesterdays
CW
Estranged
Ain't It Fun
SIDHY
SFTD
OMG

18 singles for 5 albums? dude i dunno what you were thinking, but that is alot of singles :hihi:

i think he meant as in having lots of no.1 singles

its a nice theory : ok:

but they surely are a singles baND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well not alot of rock bands have #1 singles, GnR definately had alot of radio freindly tunes back in the day and alot of videos that MTV would play on heavy rotation. And I think it would be totally plausibe for the label to turn down the record if Axl tried to discontinue that trend. Obviously Axl wants radio freindly stuff if he is recruiting song writer dudes to help him. Companies don't sink alot of dough into something that will be a "cult classic" they want upside : ok:

I don't believe the rumor that the label rejected an album ?Axl sent. They have been after him forever to release an album. There is no way Axl sent the suits an album that was so bad it was rejected.

D's theroy doesn't say they rejected it cause it was bad. His theroy says that they rejected it because it was outdated.

D...I think your theroy is a very interesting one, indeed.

Yeah its probably a correct theory but I reckon we will have to wait until CD is released to get all of these reasons and all of the truth.

I think he just wants to convince people they have been working, get a reaction to the new stuff, see what kind of songs go down best. However, some of the leaks could be very old and not even on the album, so maybe its a way of convincing us there has been recording, without really revealing anything from the album

GNR arent a singles band in the true sense of the word.

SCOM is unique, NR was freakin 8 minutes long.

Meaning they arent a singles band simply means they dont make the radio friendly formulatic singles.

Not in anyway a knock on the band or the songs but they are more of an album/great song band but the only single GNR have ever put out that could be considered a normal run of the mill single is probably Dont Cry and Patience.


WTTJ wasnt a conventional single,SCOM wasnt a conventional ballad, Paradise City definitey isnt a conventional rock single and so on and so on.

TOday the record label is geared towards radio friendly poppy 3 and a half minute singles, the days of the long guitar solos and complex songs arent the norm in music.

AFD sold almost 20 million copies and only had 1 number 1 single and 2 top 10 singles, that is unheard of.

I think the buzz generated by the demos showed the record label that GNR's brand is still extremely successful and popular and prosperous.


Coincidence that not one note leaked for over 10 years, all of a sudden we get 4 songs and GNR just happen to now announce a European tour?

Too coincidental.

In 1991 Warner Bros music didnt want to release Prince's cd "Diamonds and Pearls" it was totally unconventional, extremely different than anything out.  Prince shipped copies of the single "Gett Off' to radio without Warner Bros' knowledge. The song got such a massive response Warner Bros had no choice but to release the "Diamonds and Pearls" Cd.

Music is in the image age and the image sells the music instead of great music selling the image.

Axl proved that his way is still the best way thanks to the huge response 4 demos received.

thats my theory.

I thought SFTD and OMG were soundtrack exclusives.  They weren't actually released as singles too were they?

I remember watching VH1's "Behind the Music," and having someone - I forget who it was, Rolling Stone writer, perhaps? - say that Axl spends so much time pouring over his songs, and trying to bring them to perfection and make them as relevant to the current music scene as possible, that by the time he finally finishes a body of work, the music landscape has shifted again, forcing him to backtrack and essentially start over. 

I know I'm paraphrasing here, but still, that theory makes sense as well, whether it's Axl (likely) or the record company (unlikely) that wanted to make changes... 

Another Example

My band Bon Jovi are a singles band, they make sure they have the radio friendly radio hits on each album.

GNR arent a band that cares about radio friendly formulatic singles.

Thats actually what make GNR such an amazing legendary band, the fact they dont try to fit into someone elses category.

they write songs if they end up being a single format type song thats great but they dont sit down and say "WE gotta write a radio hit"

Think of the songs we have heard so far.

Better is definitely a hit single but compared to music on the charts its totally different than normal "radio" songs.

Same with the other 3.

well i bought the SFTD single at the record store so that is one for sure, dunno about OMG

I wouldn't be surprised if the person had absolutly no idea what they were talking about. ?The demo's we've heard have shown that Axl has found a balance between the old sound and modern sound. ?

I don't disagree.  The demos I've heard seem very relevant, and do a great job of fusing old and new influences.  Whoever said it - help here, anyone? - was basically trying to predict why Axl was taking so long to put anything out, if I remember correctly.

see D i still disagree. they may not have set out to say that "this will be a radio single" but cuz of their popularity there were singles....When UYI's came out there were already 3 singles in circulation. CW, YCBM and DC.

and look how many Music videos they had in rotation on MTV

WTTJ, SCOM, PC, Patience, DC, LALD, NR, Yesterdays, The Garden, Dead Horse, Garden Of Eden, Estranged, Since I Don't Have You, You Could Be Mine, as well as a Live Version of Civil War and the Freddie Mercury KOHD. ?and nearly everyone of these videos made it to #1 on MTV. too say that GnR didn't make Radio freindly music is a Ridiculous assumption.

the songs don't have to be conventionally written the fact is that the public loved them.

I wouldn't be so sure about the general publics perception of the new songs. Most comments I've heard about the new songs from average listeners is negative....Don't confuse the general public with Hard Core forum goers that listened to the tracks 1,000 times each

That was a different era and time though Neemo.


Back then u could get away with the epic single. today for some reason Record labels think that music fans have short attention spans and need some kind of instant hooky song instead of the great epic complex songs.


When u think of conventional radio singles, Civil War,YCBM,NR,Estranged dont fit in that format.

Its not a knock on the songs quality cause those songs are some of the greatest songs in musical history but record labels are into a singles format these days which is why the quality of bands and music in general has went to shit.

what prompted Korn to release a song called "So u want a single" every band is badgered with having 3 or 4 radio friendly 3 and a half to 4 minute hooky easy to digest songs.

GNR have never been that band.


MOst bands that are popular today look alike,sound alike and are single driven bullshit.

GNR are gonna change the musical landscape and get it back to the good ole days of music as long as Geffen get their head out of their ass and realize what they got.

The demos being leaked i think removed said head from their ass.

Riggght i got you now...sorry for the misunderstanding....no GnR will not release many catchy 3 minute little ditties....4-6 minutes or music is generally what I'd expect to hear from GnR. But also I think that they will have a few songs with a radio frieindly sound. not all songs on the radio are 3 minutes long...there are actually quite a few in the 4-5 minute range

On the other hand though, back in the day the stations did have short versions of the longer tracks, choped a solo out of NR here....out of Estranged there

My sources tell me that the first single is gonna be called 'Still A.X.L' Its gonna be a traditional Guns song so the public knows that Axl can still rock the fuck out. You know kind of like what Dr. Dre did with 'Still D.R.E' when he came back with Chonic 2001.    :hihi:

Sorry I'm just bored, Where's May at?  :drool:

Sorry, I just don?t think the whole ??they told Axl to re-do it?? is plausible.

1- A new Guns CD is guaranteed to sell like fuck, just because of the name. Even if the record sounded like something out of 1980, I don?t think they would tell Axl to start again from scratch, specially since they know that could take another decade. It?s better to release an album you know it?s bound to sell AT LEAST pretty well, than to wait for an album that may never come.
2-Axl has made it quite clear that he is going to release CD when he thinks it?s ready. After sweating blood over that album for years, nobody is going to tell him: ??Hmmmm, no. Complete do-over.??
He would flip out, Axl-style, and sue everybody and their mothers to release the damn thing. He wouldn?t say: shit, sorry, I promise Ill do better next time. 
3- GNR New Album Sucks Too Much To Be Realeased, says record label, Back To The Drawing Board For Axl. It?s just too good a story to be neglected by the media. If something like this had really happened, it would be all over the place. If this rumour had even the slightiest foundation, there?s no way it could have been kept from all the desperate journalists out there.


Just my 2 cents...

I agree, I don't see how the label could just say no.  Given how much they spent on it, they definetly had to be in the studio every once in a while to see if they were getting their money's worth.  They wouldn't say NO, then send him back to the studio with more of their money.  And if this happened after/at the same time as they cut him off, then it's equally implausible.  IF Axl was happy with the product, he would have just said take it or leave it.  They'd rather release something then nothing and there's nothing in his contract saying that the album has to be good.

For the exact reason u just said. If they are spending all this cash, they arent gonna release a CD full of 6  minute plus epics with no radio friendly hit singles.

Think of GNR, This band has no care in the world for Radio singles, they are one of the only bands that I can name who do not rely on huge hooky choruses.

Think of some of the greatest GNR hits of all time.

SCOM's chorus

Whoa oh oh oh SCOM
whoa oh oh oh Sweet love of mine


NOvember Rain doesnt technically even have a chorus.


DOnt your cry tonight, I still love you baby
Dont you cry tonight
Dont you cry tonight there's a heaven above u baby and dont u cry tonight


they dont rely on Radio friendly sing along hooky choruses.

I think maybe the record label was scared that this might not work in today's disposable music era.

Releasing the demos proved to the label that Axl is still relevant and his brand of epic unformulatic,unstructured musical masterpieces will be successful and will find an audience.

I think the record label is way more scared of the prospect of not having anything to release at all... At this point I don?t think they care anymore about the number of potential singles on the album, they just want the damn album out already. Cut their losses, move on. The album is going to sell like crazy no matter how crappy it is, and they know it, just as they know that hearing Axl saying ??CD is done?? is something that happens once in a lifetime. They are not going to risk another decade of silence.

And, personally, I think the whole ??unconventional GNR singles?? pretty ridiculous. You cannot say NR wasn?t radio friendly... :hihi: It was a fucking piano ballad with ??single?? all over it. It was just a little too long, but it was cut by most radios  down to 4 min or so anyway.
Same thing with Don?t Cry...Is this one of ?? Axl?s epic brand of unformulaic, unstructured songs?????:rofl:
And SCOM... jeez.

So you think the record label turned down CD because it was filled with NRs, Don?t Cries and SCOMs?

So what do you think are the main characteristics of radio friendly songs? NR is fucking great! That's why it got the airplay it did despite the length.

The stations' airplay time is scarce. Playing 6+ minute songs is catering to the fans of that one song while they could be catering to the fans of at least two songs, thus maximizing the number of people liking the station's tunes in that period of time. With commercial stations that's all that matters! Therefore with the current trends in music there's always at least two "good enough" tracks to be played rather than single epic song. That's what defines radio friendliness.

NR has a radio friendly sound, but the whole track is not radio friendly.

I just find it hard to believe that the label would be unhappy with the album and then give him more money to spend even longer for it to come out.  There's a time when they jus tdecide to cut their losses.

are you serious?? :rofl:

"take me down to the paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty.....oh please take me home"

"welcome to the jungle, we got fun n`games...."

these are probably two of the catchiest tunes in the rock world :hihi:

This is a huge misconception but as much as its a legendary song today, WTTJ was not a huge hit.

PC with all the guitar solo's and its length wouldnt be considered a radio friendly single today.

Let me take a timeout to explain.


All GNR songs are amazing. Radio friendly has nothing to do with the quality of a song.


Lets say CD was chalked full of Estranged.


Estranged is my personal favorite GNR song of all time but u couldnt have a CD full of nothing but these epic songs no matter how great they are.

U have to have 2 or 3 singles for the casual to non fan so u maximum record sales.


Record labels use to care about releasing great music first, record sales and profits second.

not in today's musical landscape, its all about making money first, then the quality of an album.

A label would rather have an album with 3 good songs and 9 filler tracks as opposed to 12 great outstanding non radio friendly epic tracks.

This is why they have A&R people like John Kalodner who must approve the CD before it can ever be released.

Watch Aerosmith the making of Pump.

He tells Steven Tyler, u gotta have 4 or 5 songs that I want to hear and that the public will want to hear "What It Takes,"Angel,Hole IN mY soul" all these Ballads and then with the other 6 to 8 u can do what u want.


Dont Cry and Patience are the only 2 singles I can think of that fit into the standard normal radio format.

the biggest record buying demographic probably ranges from 12 to 18.

so artists are expected to have the big easily digestible HIT single.



LA Reid made Bon Jovi go back into the studio and rework some of "Have A Nice Day"

If Geffen spent 8 million and didnt hear the radio friendly hit single, im sure they wouldve gave Axl a few more million to produce that.

D - i think there's probably some truth to your theory.

everyone is focusing on you stating that GnR is not a singles band. that point isn't relevant.

the theory is that the record label wants to hear a few songs that are radio hits. and knowing that axl makes long, complex songs, there probably were not any on there.

and by 2000, the record label had spent millions, the music scene was changing drastically, and record sales were falling fast.

there's no guarantees in the industry, and the record label has to make a ton on this album.

every mainstream band faces pressure to make hits.

and if all this is true, there would have been tension between axl and the label.

Great post Sandman.

By GNR not being a singles band people are getting confused.

GNR songs are so great they ultimately become hits but they arent manufactured,crafted and produced with "HIT" in mind.

For instance it would be like Axl recording November Rain and saying "Well its 8 minutes long so we should take out a solo and shorten it down to 4:30 so it will be on the radio.

that is being a singles band, setting out with the mindset of writing radio friendly 3 minute easily digestible catchy singles.

GNR arent a band that has ever done this which is why I said they arent a single's band.

Today's music is all about the single and first week sales.

nah....   i didn`t talk about "hit singles". (although i think, that WTTJ and PC would do great even today...)    i just said catchy refrains...   and WTTJ and PC have two of the most catchy refrains i know : ok:

You make a good point about NR, I believe at the time of UYI being recorded Axl said if he wasn't happy with the production of NR he was going to quit music altogether. And I think being told to cut NR to 4:30 would probably have made him unhappy.

Your theory is interesting and certainly a more likely possibility than some we've heard, although I'm not sure your correct on the response to the leaks being what set the ball rolling. Looking back it seems the wheels were in motion at the time of the RS interview approx a month before there were any leaks. Suggesting that leaks or no leaks we would have been looking at a summer tour and possible CD release in 06.

singles band plus mtv whores ,well at least they were