Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Hi I'm a newbie so be gentle eh? There is a section on Wikipedia about CD and it implies that the leaker of some, but not all, of the recently leaked tracks has spoken out:

"Eddie Trunk confirmed that "Better" and "Catcher in the Rye" were not on his CD. The leaker of IRS, Better, and TWAT said they were on the same CD.This would point to at least 3 CD's that had all the leaked tracks".

Any thoughts?

By the way, I just get weird lines when I try to use the italics or underline button. Anyone know why this could be? :beer:

well, this throws an interesting twist into our FECA story as well...

OK it's wikipedia, c'mon

i could go there right now and type in "CD released tommorrow" if I wanted to

how do you mean, nambis?

The trunk Disc had..

Better
Irs
There Was A Time

It is unknown how CITR got out.

Anyone can add information to the wikipedia... it doesn't have to be true.

yea, we don't really know for sure what the trunk disc had on it (EDIT: except IRS which was leaked last year, and instrumentals).  Trunk said better wasn't on there, but in other interviews etc. he seemed to be pretty fuzzy about the details of exactly which songs were on the disc

in all likelihood, though, it seems like those 3 were from the trunk disc, while citr was sourced from tape

Again, the trunk disc had...

Better
Irs
There Was A Time

Believe what you will, but that is the truth.

well I guess Mr. Intensity and his "secret inside sources" can confirm everything then  ::)

Well, you have to remember I spoke to a lot of people about possible trades and 95% of them who had those tracks said they were all on the trunk disc....

C.I.T.R was a mystery though.

catcher probably is from a tape i hadnt thought of that til now nice one!

Yep, he did say that better wasnt on his disk...!?

Does anyone seriously think that Axl is behind these leaks? i think if he is that could be bad, rather than a hint of things to come this year...?

By the by, I figured out the weird lines thing! im a dumbass!

Axl is not behind the leaks.

CITR could have been from a tape as there is a part of it that sounds like a tape messing up.

Better, Irs, Twat was on the Eddie Trunk disc.

you sound very sure of yourself mr intensity? :smoking: :beer: : ok: ???

These leaks came from Las Vegas, apparantly the strippers at the Crazy Horse have copies of the CD Axl played there sometime in 2002 or 2003, i dont remember the exact date. But the original leaker of IRS and i presume Better and TWAT stated that he got them this way.

Who knows how CITR got out, but management got to him and prevented him from leaking the other tracks he claims to have. Either way i think we are done for the time being. Once CD goes into mass production and copies start getting sent out to the press the thing will be all over the net!

Jonx

Here's what people don't understand.

Eddie Trunk stated "Better" was not on the Eddie Trunk disc because he didn't want to be part of any lawsuits, etc.. that may come about from the leaks. Eddie Trunk stating "Better" was not on the source disc that was brought to his studio temporarily put him out of the picture as far as his show or the source disc brouth to his studio being behind the leaks. I mean he was ordered to destroy that source disc from management after they caught wind I.R.S was played. The fact that the music from that source disc leaked most likely worried him and he didn't want to be part of all the ruckus.. so he simply said "better" was not on the disc as it then paints the illusion that there is up to 3 source discs. The one with CITR, the one with I.R.S/Twat (Trunk Show) and the third disc that has "Better."

I don't know how much credibility strippers in Vegas having a cd has.....

Mr. I has a boring life, so makes up his own on the internet

cop/narc/investigator.

Yet, everything I have posted has been proven true. I said CITR existed, then a 9 second clip leaked. I said CITR would leak, it then leaked. I said Brian May was confirmed to be on CITR, it was then confirmed by him 2 days later. I could go on but the few people I actually talk to via personal pms are the only ones I really care if they believe me or not. I'd be willing to bet my left nut that those 3 tracks were the only ones on the trunk disc besides the instrumentals.

So who is this leaker from the strip club?

Already i have an allie in nambis! Whooo! Ahem.

cop/narc/investigator.

WHAT?

You're right, but you act like an authority on this stuff when in reality you're just some nerdy GNR fan sitting at a computer like the rest of us  :hihi:

Well, if you think about it, Axl was the leaker when he played it at the strip club and it got taped by someone  :hihi:

I admit I am a huge gnr fan and I only post information that I am 99% sure is accurate.

I can openly admit we are all overly obsessed fucks, we've been here for 10 yrs.....

Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. The "Trunk confirmed it quote" is referring to a claim Pilfrek made on these forums, that in a private email to him Trunk said Better wasn't on it.

But Trunk has also publically said he doesn't remember what was on it, and was vague on the number of tracks, ending his comments with "I think."

I personally think the CD Piazza was sent, that Trunk got, was sent elsewhere as well, or that the original source - who sent Piazza the CD - has leaked the tracks him/herself. It's been years since Trunk played IRS, so that individual might have had a new track.

Or, Catcher could have come from somewhere else. But it's pretty clear TWAT/IRS/Better came from the same source, given they each have instrumentals, whereas CITR does not.

In any case, don't put too much faith in Wikipedia. Too many content wars take place there.

You're right, but you act like an authority on this stuff when in reality you're just some nerdy GNR fan sitting at a computer like the rest of us? :hihi:


HAHAHAHA too true! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Honestly, if you listen to CITR real close... you can almost tell for certain it is from a tape.

yea, CITR is probablly from a different source than the other three, unless someone is really trying to cover their tracks  :nervous:

From 4:36-4:39 you can clearly tell CITR is from a tape... : ok:

Yeah its from a tape. just wish i was more observant! but then i only just learned to post here, so theres not much hope. :-[

nope, Axl is definitely not behind these leaks.

Axl is not behind the leaks.

cop/narc/investigator.


C'mon, just gimme a reply already! Chicken.

I dont know, i just went over to mygnr to try and copy and past the coversation i had with the original leaker over there.... what did i find. Im missing about 6 or 7 PM messages. So since i dont have any evidence to back up my claims i cant really be taken seriously. I admit that

Jonx

he's trying to say you're a pig, which wouldn't even matter anyhow because 1) only a select few know where the leaks originated, and 2) they sure as hell aren't going to be talking about it on an open forum : ok:

Ping

Take this for what it is worth, but I heard Axl Rose's grandma was a big John Lennon fan. So when Axl went to visit Grandma Rose she cooked him a big turkey dinner. Over dinner Axl played his grandma Chinese Democracy in its entirety and told her what CITR was about. After dinner he was then so full he fell asleep in the recliner watching a L.A. Lakers basketball game and Grandma Rose recorded C.I.T.R off of the Chinese Democracy disk thatn was located in the  special silver case Axl always carrys. She then leaked it onto the world wide web for all of us to hear.

he's trying to say you're a pig, which wouldn't even matter anyhow because 1) only a select few know where the leaks originated, and 2) they sure as hell aren't going to be talking about it on an open forum : ok:

if i was a hog i wouldnt ask on an open forum either! its weird more people arent asking tho.

dont worry jonx. your story sounds reasonable.

and what do u mean by ping, Mr. I.??

I meant I agreed with the post.. like it was a right answer and the "ping" sound went off. :peace:

yeah i hear ya. sorry.

Except that there were 2 different versions of TWAT on the same disc, which would make a total of 4 tracks with vocals.

I think you would lose that nut.

No, I wouldn't there is 3 songs on the disc.. it doesn't matter that there are 2 dif vocal versions of the same song. The left nut would still be in tact.

you can hear the tape warping!!

 ;)

Yes you can, that was mentioned about 20 minutes after the original CITR discussion started though.

fl
yeah that's true,anyone can edit those pages  :smoking:

citr, irs and better are in three diferent qualities tho, what does that tell you?

My theory is this: whoever allowed the Trunk disc to get into the "wild" initially by giving it to Piazza also gave a copy to the leaker, or is themself the leaker. In other words, it's the same compilation, but not Trunk's disc.

Then, someone associated with the Guns camp attempted to find out if there were any additional leaks out there (when all the rumours were flying), and was authorized to leak "Catcher in the Rye" after first trying to determine what else was out there. A bonus treat for the fans, if you will, once they were satisfied the rumours were bogus.

Decent theory, however if CITR was given by management to leak it would have been on cd quality and not on tape quality..... CITR is from a tape, listen to 4:36-4:39 of the track. ;)

Very true. However, when you think about it, releasing this old wobbly tape version instead of a crisp cd version would accomplishes 3 things:

1 - People would still want to buy the finished version
2 - No one would suspect them of leaking it
3 - Provides a bonus treat for the fans, since the song title has been known for years, and Axl has apparently said it will not come out until the 2nd or 3rd album (it would be cool if someone had a link to confirm this).

It is unlikely, but it is still possible.

MR I, do you know any other demos that exist? How about Prostitute, Closing on you or Zip it with Shaq?
Are they really out there or they are just rumours???

zip it with shaq .... lol

I believe the first wave of leaks is over, when I was working to uncover more tracks and I had CITR, everyone who claimed more tracks was lying. Even after CITR was leaked and I was lying that I had more to leak so I could remain in contact with people who claimed more tracks, I was still able to determine they were lying.

Now, in regards to a second wave of leaked tracks, I believe that may be possible. Catcher in the Rye was not from management, it was taped by someone. So someone taped some tracks of Chinese Democracy and I do not know if CITR is the only song on the tape. It seems whoever possesses the tape has decided to not leak the rest if there is more to leak.

Prostitute is a legit track, I know the demo exists. Zipit and Closing in on you... I have no idea if they exist. I do know the one "closing in on you" that leaked is completely fake.

It's very easy to make it to sound like its source is from a tape or whatever. I could make a Better version with the same sound and the glitches.

The leaks are being done on purpose by "Team Gn'R" people. Think about it.  Axl said people will hear music this year.  Then leaks came out and then dates were announced for the band to play festivals. The leaks are being done on purpose so the fans will be familiar with some of the new material that gets played at these festivals. Axl doesn't want to go out and simply play the jukbox hits again and everyone knows that brand new material does not get the same reaction from a crowd as familiar material does. These leaks are simply for the festival shows. Chinese Democracy is further off than anyone wants to admit.

I fear the album won't be out this year.

Hopefuly the next wave of leaks will occur sometime after the European tour ends.

I don't care for the identity of the leaker(s), I'm just pleased to see that they are there.

I Still don't agree with this and don't think the leaks were done on purpose by the band or anyone affiliated with them.

When I think about it and try to put myself in their position, I would leak only 1 song, and MAYBE another one that isn't slated to be on the album.  If I was on their marketing team, i would do this only when there was a statement about the official single to be made and then maybe 2 weeks or so after the first leak make the announcement.. then after all that craziness dies down, announce the album release date. 

That's what i would do if i were in charge anyway.. but this is GNFNR so who knows what they are planning to Unleash!!!!!!

I guess we do need to rehash this again, eh?

Trunk says Better was not on his CD.  I forwarded the email to jarmo and madison at the time.

Did someone else ask him about CITR?

Trunk, himself, says it wasn't, so.....

Given 95% of the people you were talking to about trades ended up in bullshit....

100% bullshit. Talk to Eddie yourself.

Want some logical proof it's bullshit?  Because Eddie saying anything wouldn't matter or remove him from suspicion.  Management knows what was on the Trunk CD.  He couldn't deflect anything by lying.

Nice theory though.? Too bad you don't have any proof.

Where would you like to ship that nut?

Again, talk to Eddie yourself.

And all the info you talk about where you were "right"...one source...and, as far as I know, they too believe Better came from somewhere else other than the Trunk CD.

So lets can the insider crap, OK?

Dude, I don't give a fuck what Eddie Trunk replied to your email, do you think he is going to tell you or anyone else who emailed him the exact truth. Think about it, in the scheme of things we are nobody and what he tells us doesn't matter. He isn't a huge fan of the band like me so he's not even going to care enough to memorize the tracklisting. Better, Irs, and Twat came from the disc that was in his studio. I don't believe he is behind the leaks though, someone probably burnt the disc in the studio when he wasn't around or if he was around he just doesn't want to say so....

Citr is a tape and came from somewhere else.

No, dude, Better didnt' come from there.

And you have no proof otherwise.

Eddie has a long history of being VERY truthful.? He has to be.? He trades on his reputation.? What, for fucks sake, would he possibly gain from lying?? I've already kaboshed your bullshit "lawsuit" theory, which makes no sense.

Just another fantasy.

Eyewitness vs your opinion.

You don't? know shit...that's the long and short of it.

Do we really need to rehash this discussion yet again?

I know someone who knows the person who cracked the source disc via cease+desist orders given from management. I take my source as pretty credible too. If I didn't believe there was a 99% chance "Better" was on that disc I wouldn't post saying so.. so far everything I have posted has been 100% accurate. I'm not stating Eddie didn't say "Better" wasn't on the disc, I just believe he doesn't know what the fuck he is talking about, he seen/heard the disc once, he isn't a huge guns fan, he's not going to log down the tracklisting, wait for us to email him, and say "oh yeah let me check my tracklisting, "better" isn't on there."

One thing he did say was that there were 3 seperate songs on there, and if 2 of them were I.R.S and T.W.A.T., then where is the 3rd leak? Do you get where I am coming from? Eddie must not have known "Better" was on there or he just doesn't feel like telling the whole truth.

IRS, Better & TWAT are all from Wes @ MYGNR. Dunno who the fuck he is but this was his first post there.


then his 4th post


Eddie trunk is in NY and so is Mike Piazza, so give it up Mr.Intensity, you don't know shit :P

Sorry, I call bullshit again. ?Everything in that first sentence is complete and utter BS. Have you ever read one of managements C&D letters? ?Maybe not that you've been told it, but it's not correct.

Not to mention your "source" is 3rd hand information from nobody credible vs Trunk, himself, who actually had the CD.

Trunk is right. ?Why people have such a hard time coming to terms with that, I don't know. ? ?He had the disc in his possession. ?You didn't. He listened to it. You didn't. ? How many times and how closely he listened to it, you have no clue. He listened to some of it in studio, and then listened again on his car ride home (he lives in NJ, broadcasts from NYC) But this is a guy who eats, sleeps, and breathes music...who pulls archaic infomration about 1 hit wonders from 20 years ago, from his brain, on air, at a moment's notice. ?Somehow, I think that makes him, and his memory, 100% more credible than you. This whole discussion has taken place in other threads, and I'm not going to rehash it here. ?Use the search function.

Suffice to say, Better wasn't on the Trunk CD. ?No matter what you believe.....though, of course, you can believe anything you'd like. ?But don't get too attached to that left nut.

As for that 100% accuracy rate...again, one source. ?And that source, AFAIK, believes exactly as I do on this one. ?So, again, lets drop the "insider" crap.


You're assuming IRS and TWAT came from the Trunk CD, too. ?That might not be true. ?All we can assume is that IRS, TWAT, and Better were on the same leak source NOW.....that' says nothing about the Trunk CD. ?The only thing we know, for sure, that was on the Trunk CD was IRS. ?Period. ?Someone else can ask Eddie about TWAT. ?All I know, for sure, is Better was not there.

Eddie is telling the truth. ?You, on the other hand......I'm not so sure. ?I'm not sure if you're spouting your own bs to try to appear like you're "in the know", or someone elses bullshit. ?But it's BS, all the same.

Question.

Wouldn't the guitarists on the tracks date the songs? i.e. are all these post or pre-2004 or simply a mix? That could rule out a cd given to someone in 2004 right? I don't know, that's why I am asking.

Lol, I'm sure he is going to tell the exact truth as to where it originated via world wide web in a public forum. Do you people ever think before you post?

Pilferk, again, you're putting too much faith into Eddie Trunk man. How was he even to know the titles of the songs, also if he lives and breathes music than I am sure he hears thousands of songs each month and is not going to remember perfectly what was on the disc, especially one he listened to two or three times. Your little email you sent him is great and all, but remember when everyone said it wasn't Brian May on guitar on CITR because someone recieved an email from his site manager?? I told everyone that if it wasn't Brian May, I'd retire from posting, once again I was proved right 2 days later when May confirmed it. I'll also prove myself right about the Trunk disc in due time. As of now you can have your theory, I'll stick with the truth.

We had this discussion in another thread. ?It would date when the tracks were created, to some extent (like Brian May's parts were recorded in early 2000, I think), but not when they were "assembled". ?You can take tracks recorded during any time frame, aseemble them with tracks recorded more recently, and get a finished product.

So, in short, not really...

At this point, I'm of the mind that if the songs on the CD were anything other than IRS, Better, and TWAT, we'd have it by now, regardless of whether it were "The Blues", "Prostitute", or any other suggested track.  Eddie described the music he didn't play from the CD as a great rocker with shredding guitar from Buckethead(para-phrasing, obviously)...Well, I'll be, hot damn!  Sounds quite a bit like Better to me...
Since I've yet to hear another vocal demo, I'm content to let a disparity exist between my theory and Eddie Trunk's accout.  Not harming anyone.

The Trunk demos are from 2002-2003 recording sessions.

I have not confirmed where CITR is exactly from, but I am most certain it is pre 2003.

However, I believe the CITR we got was taped from a Chinese Democracy demo disc.....from where and when I don't know.

"Eddie described the music he didn't play from the CD as a great rocker with shredding guitar from Buckethead(para-phrasing, obviously)...Well, I'll be, hot damn!  Sounds quite a bit like Better to me..."

PING

Do I win the camping gear, or can I select the cookware?

LOL..I'm putting too much faith in Eddie?? Too much faith in a knowledgable, reputable person who can be contacted pretty much by anybody for verification, and who trades on his reputation and truthfulness?? Vs putting faith in a 3rd hand shadowy, unknown, uncontactable, who, from your statements of "cracking the source CD" is a liar (since what you assert is impossible),? "source".? ?Um...yeah, right.

Song title? ?How did WE know the song title? Um....because that's the word repeated in the chorus. ?Not such a stretch, eh?

Again, you want to believe your fantasy, have fun. ?You can call it "the truth" if you'd like (with no proof), but the fact is, it's crap.

The real Truth is...Trunk says it wasn't there. ?It wasn't there. ?No matter how much you want it to be, no matter how much you assert it to be, no matter how much you'd like to point to your past history. ?The TRUTH is, Trunk is a much more reliable source that YOU are. Period. ?End of Story.

All the CITR info came from one very specific source. ?THIS piece of info is not. ?And it's complete bullshit.

You don't have to believe me.  As I can't really cite a direct source on this (to protect the individual(s), of course).  But Better was NOT on the Trunk disc.

That disc had IRS, T.W.A.T., & Prostitute.  That disc was sent to between 3-5 people.  For some reason, only Trunk realized what he got.  The Piazza story is a big load of crud, regardless.

When IRS initially leaked from Trunk's show.. the main concern on management's part was Prostitute leaking.  (which I'm still pretty much amazed that it hasn't)

-darknemus

As well as, for all we know, countless other tracks we haven't heard yet.  And I'm not even sure I would describe Better that way.  I can see how you could shoehorn that description to FIT Better....but most of Better is a mid tempo song.  Only the center portion "rocks"...and his actual description says "lots of shredding guitar from Buckethead".  I, again, wouldn't say Better has "lots" of it.  Just the center portion.

Circumstantial, at best.

Absolutely true. You're not harming anyone.

But the difference is, you're leaving room for the disparity.

Not asserting that you are correct, and Eddie is completely wrong.

Nor are you claiming to be some sort of Insider, who has (bullshit, I might add) information from someone who knows someone who "cracked the source CD through the cease and desist letters"....an impossibility, I might add.

Dark.

Explain the absence of Prostitute....Everything else we've heard to be rumored to be on that disc, including instrumentals, just so happens to be out here....

I never assert absolute truth...Always try to leave room for a disparity, or at least another perspective : ok:  Well, I attempt to...The percentage of success might be lower than I'd like, however.

I can take a crack: ?The Trunk CD hasn't leaked. ?A different one did. ?The "different one" had IRS, TWAT, and Better, instead of IRS, TWAT, and Prostitute.

Thus, no Prostitute.

Keep in mind, I'm basing that off of supposition based on darks info posted above.  I've no earthly clue what WAS on the Trunk CD.

I can explain the absence of Prostitute very easily.

The rips you're hearing aren't from the Trunk disc.  They're from a separate demo disc that Wes somehow managed to get his hands on.  (And also provided copies for his cousin and apparently some music store owner)

It just so happens that, on this disc, it has the same cut of IRS that was broadcast on Trunk's show / on Trunk's disc.

How the Trunk disc hasn't shown up / been ripped yet, I seriously have no clue.  I'm pretty sure its out there.. just not within our circles.

-darknemus

I've to start jerking in those circles then....Even my Mrs thinks I need a prostitute :peace:  Haven't had coffee yet, they can't all be golden

isn't it I.R.S., Prostitute and TWAT?

I'm not getting involved in the Eddie Trunk debate because I haven't spoken to the man myself... I'd venture to say anyone who's been talking to him would have a better idea than anyone else.  Meanwhile, no one knows for sure, because he could have easily lied.

I take what Dark has to say very serious, I am absolutely mind boggled over the situation as my source has been correct on every question I have ever asked. Perhaps I am mistaken though. I just don't put 100% faith into what Trunk said in the email. Hopefully in time we'll know the complete truth.

Again, I still believe Trunk had Better, T.W.A.T, and Irs... if Prostitute were to leak then I guess that would blow my sources credibility as far was what the Trunk disc contained.

Dark, hop on msn when you get a chance.

I believe ^

I can say with absolute 100% confidence that Prostitute was on the Trunk CD, I know this to be a fact.

The tracks that leaked aren't from the Trunk CD, but a different demo disc.  : ok:

Leak Prostitute as proof then.... Pilferk, I am sorry to doubt you, but I guess I could be wrong on this, I know you've been posting here a long time and believe Trunk. I just can't figure out why my source would be correct on all other issues I have asked, but would lie to me on this.  :peace:

Thanks, Gigger.  That makes independent confirmation from three parties now that "Prostitute" was on the disc sent to Eddie Trunk.

-darknemus

I never claimed to have the Trunk disk. But I am 100% on Prostitute being on it. I'm sure Mysteron can have this confirmed by Sanctuary if he wanted to.

Sanctuary will not confirm Prostitute is on that disc.. I know that much.

I'd like to hear Prostitute, if it ever surfaces.  Something tells me it would be a lot like The Who's Substitute...  : ok:

for once i agree with you. they are not gonna add more fuel to that fire :no:

Perhaps not publically, but they have done internally in the past.

If Prostitute were to leak before the album was in duplication there would be a lot of very unhappy people in the GnR camp. It is considered to be the strongest track by many of the people involved.

No, you said that Prostitute would leak and it didn't.  You also said you would post a sample, so no, not everything you say is true.   I also remember that you said you would leak the rest of what you had for "the community"  once you thought all possible sources were tapped.  Welp you've already said that you believe nothing else is out there so.....  I guess you didn't feel like living up to what you said. 

As far as everything else, I don 't believe we will ever get the entire truth.

Wouldn't we all :)

-darknemus

So mandersen66 is wes's cousin?

mandersen66:

THS IS THE DEMO I HAVE IN THIS ORDER, THATS ALL FROM ME GUYS, SORRY BUT I DONT NO IF THERE WILL BE ANYMORE, MY THINKING IS NO BUT I STILL DONT NO WHO PUT OUT CATCHER

1.IRS 4:16
2.IRS (instrumental) 4:13
3.TWAT 6:43
4.TWAT (instrumental) 6:42
5.TWAT 6:02
6.TWAT (instrumental) 5:58
7.BETTER 5:06
8.BETTER (instrumental) 5:01

PUT THESE SONGS IN THIS ORDER MAKE YOURSELF A CD, AND NOW YOU HAVE THE DEMOS I GOT FROM VEGAS......LATER GUYS

nobody is ever gonna know the truth anyways...

bad joke.

The manegement leaked them ! ! !

lol.. yea it was..

Haha, even I realized that wasn't funny.

Clever. ?But to clarify, the Ryan Adams thing is a little different. ?The leakers are being charged criminally, meaning that they're defending against the state, not Ryan Adams.

......... :P

And now for something completely different.
There's this huge 'crack' at the end of TWAT (and possibly one in Better) : could they be actual watermarks used to identify each CD ?

Let me get this straight... there is a Huge Crack in Twat.

hahahahahahaha

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I laughed out loud at this one

I wonder if Prostitute has a Huge Crack too?

This thread is pure dynamite..

A few questions for dark and pilfrek

1. Has the strip club theory been ruled out yet? The presence of instrumentals doesn't exactly lend credence to the theory that axl played this disc a at a strip club?

2. Has GnR squashed the Trunk disc b/c of the presence of Prostitute?

3. Was Mike Piazza used as a herring for Trunk to introduce a demo disc that he was given personally?



My excitement for Prostitute has increased exponentially at this moment. :love:

Wait! I think we need to get to the "bottom" of this "Twat", "Prostitute" "Huge Crack" affair.



...OK I'll stop now.

ba-dum-che! ?;D

So if there's a crack in TWAT, no wonder it leaked...

same here? :yes: its gonna be better than better :'(

:rofl: he acts like one :rofl:

i think it`s great that prostitute didn`t leak yet and we can look forward to the supposedly strongest track on CD. i swear that if it leaks i won`t listen to it, since this would really spoil the CD release (or prostitute single release(?)...)

it`s really the only case, i`m happy about hoarders :hihi:

.....leak the vma rehearsals instead : ok:

Jimbo,

I never said Prostitute would leak for sure as I'm not 100% certain that my source or anyone else has the track. In case you had not read yesterday I openly admitted I lied about having more tracks when CITR leaked so I could remain speaking to people who claimed to have Prostitute. Once again, I determined they were all bullshitting. Saying I had more tracks was what I needed to do in an effort to possibly obtain more, which I did not do.
I have no tracks to leak, if I did, you'd all have them. If it is true that Prostitute is considered one of the strongest new gnr tracks, then it is possible that my source misinformed me that it was not on the Trunk disc as to hopefully kill all speculation that the track hangs in the balance for leaking...my excitement for this track has now too reached another level.

 :peace:

It makes plenty sense to me. ?My theory: ?Axl wanted to hear his music in a live/club/public setting. ?He had them play it over the speakers at Crazy Horse Too.

He has on disc some vocals he feels fit the song. ?Then the instrumentals follow the vocals version so that he can run it through his head to see if he might change things around......add some.....delete some.

He returns to LA and messes the songs some more.

Sounds like the methods of a perfectionist to me.

I find it more believable that Trunk is mistaken or dishonest as opposed to Axl dropping his guard long enough for somebody to burn copies of a cd at a strip joint. ?Or even more ridiculous that he would forget to take the cd with him.

why is it rumored to be the strongest track?  is there a source for this?

Trunk isn't answering his email these days. No doubt he's sick of all the questions and doesn't want to get involved.

And where, pray tell, does this info come from?

All these conflicting reports - Mr. I's "source", Pilfrek's email which is still kept private for reasons he hasn't disclosed, your story - none of them have ANY evidence. Pilfrek can cry to the heavens that Trunk told him something, well, so what? It's three years after the fact that Trunk told him this.

The only evidence in the public record is the statements he made, that he skimmed the disc quickly in the car on the way home from work, that he used the words "I think" when talking about the number of tracks on the CD, and that even a year ago he said he couldn't remember the songs besides IRS.

And has anyone considered that Trunk might be under a gag order as to what songs are out there? The fucking BAND members are rumored to be under a gag order, Trunk got a visit from management/lawyers, they may have told him not to talk about specific track names.

Hey Pilfrek, in your little chat with Trunk, since you put lots of weight on it - did he confirm or deny TWAT being on there?

Watermarks are extremely easy to remove.

If you remember, a few years ago there was a watermark cracking contest sponsored by an industry-run body - the Secure Digital Music Initiative.

The presented six different watermarking/protection schemes for audio files.

Every single scheme was defeated.

There isn't a single audio copy prevention/indentification scheme in the public realm today that has not been defeated.

Whether or not the person involved in leaking these tracks is knowledgable in that area, however...

And the cracking isn't necessarily an indication of a protection/identification scheme.

1 = unlikely. I first heard this from Pilfrek and he later said it was just a thoery he was floating. It's completely unlikely and there's no corraboration from anyone on it.

2 = the Trunk disc was squashed after IRS was played, and IRS was removed from syndication. Therefore, it would seem that the tracks on the disc were not as important as some here are speculating. Regardless of what was on it, management wanted it surpressed.

3 = I suppose that's a possibility. But why? Trunk could have said the CD was sent to HIM anonymously. That it was in HIS fan mail. Why bring Piazza into it at all?

1) Nope, not squashed. ?It could also be a rip of the CD he brought in, if it was left with a DJ or anything, so the instrumentals wouldn't have had to have been played. ?Or the Vegas Story could be a cover to "protect the innocent", so to speak.

2) My guess is yes. ?I know there were people VERY worried that would leak, and were looking for evidence. ?And I think the reason they were looking is the only place it could have come from was the Trunk CD. ?But that's pure speculation, on my part.

3) I think Piazza actually DID get the disc. ?Take a look at Trunk's history.....You'll see Piazza seems to be around a lot when things happen to Eddie.

The vegas story was reported in papers. So some newspaper was involved in "protecting the innocent"? The only thing vegas was used for was as a cover by that Wes guy.

One of you has "Prostitute". What are you going to do about it...? Leak it and get your 15 seconds of virtual fame or wait too long and lose your cards...?

You're right, Pilferk has Prostitute.

it`s rumoured to be the strongest track.....so there`s no real source for that. if i remember correctly, people involved with the recording and some(?) band members said it was the best....

also marco beltrami or paul buckmaster (one of those two guys did the orchestration on prostitute...) said that it was a great track and described it. i think splat reported it... i`m not that good in finding articles or quotes :hihi:

it`s all subjective anyway....... among axl`s favourite tracks are better, twat and the blues, dizzy said the general was his favourite song..... but it`s definitely something worth waiting for :peace:

^^ SWEET.  well i hope it doesn't leak before the whole album cause i want to hear it in appropriate context  ;)

if he has it, he should keep it to himself imo. we don`t need more leaks, especially not prostitute :no:

That, sir, is a bald faced lie. ?Completely 100% a lie. ?1) The email is not being kept private. ?It was sent to jarmo and madison for verification. ?2) I have disclosed why I won't post the whole thing on the forums. ?I guess I need to bold it for you : IT CONTAINS PERSONAL INFORMATION I DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH THE FORUMS! ?Is that now clear enough for you? ?Ask jarmo, if you want confirmation the email contains Trunk's denial, ask jarmo. ?Trunk said "No, it wasn't". ?That's the relevant portion of the email.

And Evidence? ?My god man: Eyewitness testimony stands up in any court in the country. ?How much more evidence do you need?

And from someone questioning the amount of evidence supporting something, your "fantasy" has precious little of it. ?

How about you present some? ?Oh, yeah..you don't HAVE ANY!


And you can cry to the heavens that he's wrong...but evidence doesn't support that fact. ?Everything we know about Trunk contradicts that assertion. ?But you go on believing the fantasy. Oh, and I thought you were done talking about this til Trunk responded? ?Yeah, right.

If Trunk were under a gag order, he wouldn't have been able to give the splat interview, or even answer questions on the subject...and he'd likely say so. ?He has, in the past (ie: his termination from from XM) done just that.

I did not ask about TWAT, or CITR, as I said before (though you have a habit of not actually reading things, apparently..it's a common theme in any discussion with you). ?CITR had not leaked yet. ?

exactely my opinion : ok:

Not hardly. ?I have exactly what you all have. And usually (and dark can back me up on this) I have it LONG after you guys do.

?Any assertion otherwise is a lie.

Actually, it came from Wes...the original leaker...who says he got them from a stripper in Vegas.

That's what I meant by "the vegas story".  Meaning wes's story that he got it from a stripper in Vegas.

he didnt really get it from a stripper, he got it from his brothers daughter..or so he says..

EDIT: i think he also said she worked in a club or something..and made a copy of axl's cd.................... :hihi:

he posted this in mygnrforum..

I don't believe Wes would ever give out the exact story as to where he got that C.D..... he'd be an idiot if he did. Especially in a public forum. I call smokescreen with that Vegas story.

Why not edit out the personal info?


Eyewitnesses are questioned all the time. I have a fair amount of experience in that area pal. I've spent a lot of hours in courtrooms. In my opinion, Trunk's memory makes him less than a spectacular eye witness.


I've presented public comments from Trunk. Funny how you even quoted one of them in this very thread, the one about him listening to the CD in the car on the way home.

Read my quotes, Pilfrek. I said I was done UNTIL Trunk responded OR it was apparent he wouldn't reply. It's been a week. He's obviously staying out of this mess. Are you able to comprehend that? Don't quote me on crap if you can't manage to do it right.

Trunk never mentioned a single track name besides IRS in the Splat interview, nor in any other interview, and claimed not to know them. Now read my quote. I was referring to song titles.

And you didn't answer my question, therefore it remains valid. I asked about TWAT also, not CITR, so why are you even bringing that into it?

Since I need to baby you, again "And has anyone considered that Trunk might be under a gag order as to what songs are out there?"

AS TO.

WHAT SONGS.

ARE OUT THERE.

IRS, having been played on the show, clearly doesn't matter. But since the leaking of the disc, and Trunk claiming to "not know the other names", Trunk hasn't said a name. Is THERE WAS A TIME a fucking hard title? It's in the fucking song. Better could be hard to guess, but TWAT was a known song title AT THE TIME.

It seems strange to me that Trunk couldn't confirm that this track was on the CD during the course of three years. It was on all GNR websites after the RS interview. You've been claiming what a music god Trunk is in this thread, and he couldn't do his homework and say "yeah the other track was TWAT?"

If he's able to confirm Better not being on the CD, it should be pretty fucking easy for him to confirm or deny TWAT. One would THINK he would have done it when asked about songs during earlier interviews, of which he did at least TWO. Yet he says he doesn't know what the other songs were and can only describe them.

Trunk as an eyewitness is pretty shakey at this point. But we know what your argument shall be; "Trunk told me so it's true!"

My parents once had me believing in the tooth fairy. Need a quarter?

It's an obvious sham. There is no validity to these little theories that the tracks came from clubs. I doubt Axl played any of these old tracks. I'm sure he kept an eye on the DJ booth and didn't let anyone wander off with a CD.

Reporters are being asked to have listening sessions, they don't even get copies, and Axl let some guy wander off at a club for fifteen minutes unsupervised with unreleased tracks?

The only way tracks came from clubs is if they were recorded as they were played. So then, under that theory, Axl played instrumentals and two versions of TWAT?

It doesn't fly.

kyrie,

I understand your frustration.  And I realize that, without evidence, its really impossible to know for sure one way or the other.  All I can tell you is that, if you add in Gigger - I've now gotten from three independent sources (one of who works in the radio industry) that Prostitute was the third track on the disc Eddie Trunk received.

I don't have any reason to disbelieve the first two people (one of whom I've known for 10+ years now) and Gigger has had direct contact with Sanctuary in the past - so I also have no reason to doubt him on this issue.

You're entitled to your belief(s) - and no one should attempt to take that way from you.  All I ask is that you pay close attention to ALL of the circumstances revolving around the leaks, and you might be able to begin to see the forest through the trees, so to speak.

-darknemus

good post dark. the info we have from trunk and others is the only info we have, so how can we ignore it?

Mr.I how can we take your word for it that your mysterious source is right. we have no proof you even have a source.

The circumstanial evidence, however, is starting to build.

The leaks follow the description of the Trunk CD perfectly, except for CITR, which I now believe DID come from another source. The one source I believe in all this predicted exactly what tracks would leak, and in what order. He listed the contents of the CD. I don't know who Mr. I spoke to, and I don't like the way Mr. I handled that "trading" crap, I think too many people were striving for attention, but his source did list him the contents of the CD.

Trunk's memory in interviews was shakey at best; he claimed not to know the other songs despite There Was A Time being obvious if it was indeed on the Trunk CD, as you claimed also (Your statement was IRS, TWAT, and Prostitute were on the Trunk CD, correct)?

The timing of these leaks also brings up questions. We hear Better just weeks after we learn of the title for the first time. Shot in the dark, but it could be someone didn't even know what the track was called until Axl mentioned it... they may have just had it. And, is there not a chance your source was confused on track names?

Or even a chance that the name was CHANGED?

"I never would not that I could
No matter what you paid me"

"If I were you, I'd manage to abhore the invitation
Of promised love that can't keep up with your adoration"

LIAR LIAR!!! LIAR!!!!

Is this a cover up?  Do you really have them but are just trying to play it off like you don't?  Probably not, I can't believe you lied you son of a bitch. But whatever.


Hey Guys!  People Lie on the Internet!!  All  my trust is gone, you can't trust online sources!? What is this world coming to?


Change your name to Mr. Liar. 

His brother's Daughter is a Stripper?  Word

hahahahahahahaha...no.. i mean shes a dj or someshit like that..sry i didnt point that out.. :'(

Why do you all care so much WHO leaked the tracks anyways????? Who really gives a shit....

kyrie,

Again, you have NO reason to believe me.  So, I accept that when I say this.  I knew the contents that the CD Trunk had about 12 hours after it was initially played by Trunk.  I also heard the original broadcast (recorded to DAT) a day or so later.  That's how I knew about the 18 minutes or so of comments that got edited out of Trunk's replay. 

If my timing had been a bit better, I would have scored a copy of the DAT for everyone - but what happened there is pretty well known.  Management spazzed and went on the warpath.  Stations were ordered to destroy / store the Trunk show broadcast DAT, and all sorts of other general chaos.  By the time I attempted to score a copy the order had come down from actual OWNERS of the station that, if the copy leaks, heads roll.  Hence why, from that point forward - as much as I tried, religiously, every week, I never got a copy of the DAT for distribution.

-darknemus

that would have been cool..... 

But then according to what you know/knew, that was three year old info. Is there a chance your source was wrong about the contents, or that the track they thought was Prostitute was actually Better, or that the TITLE was changed to Better?

Prostitute is an old rumored track name, Better was confirmed by Axl himself in RS.

Did Trunk say anything to indicate names of the other tracks during the original broadcast? Only one actual song was played... IRS.

this is prolly nothing, but I noticed in the thanks-you's for Black Label Society's Mafia album that, Zakk Wylde thanks Piazza

just thought it weird cuz Zakk had a brief stint with GnR and the rumors of IRS originating with Piazza.

like i said prolly nothing but thought I'd post it anyway :-[

they are friends.. Piazza and Wylde.... but wasnt Zakk only around with GnR when Slash was still around... Axl compared it to a Dragon fighting a snake or something like that.... I dont think Zakk actually recorded any songs with them....

no but it is a connection back to Axl

maybe Zakk leaked the tracks to piazza..

was kinda wondering about the possiblity but who knows, thought it might throw a twist into the Trunk/Piazza/IRS discussion

piazza hasn't said anything yet, right?

Maybe I should try.

It sounds very plausible to me. Although there may be some uncertainty in Trunk's statements, the fact that at least three people have heard the same report makes this theory comfortable for me.

If the Trunk CD is out there somewhere, the question is now, who has it?

i think it was reported that he said, on the show, that it was mailed to him from an unknown party (no return address on the envelope). I mean he must have an idea who it came from, but to protect that person he didn't disclose the info. (at least that's what I'm assuming)

Also I'm sure that the GnR camp would know where it originated

you have access to mike piazza????

darknemus if you know so much about everything and have 5,000 contacts...why dont you just go suck axl's left testicle and get the album today?  I'm sick of listening to the mr. authority act like you know something definitive.  i recall you hanging around with latigo and that whole fuckup back in the day and then begging it off when you took egg on the face and were dead wrong. seriously dude just drop the authoritative fascade and fuck off because, if you had anything worth saying, you've said it exponentially already.

leesixxrose, No shit. :hihi:
He should have an email addy or a site open to the public, no?

Neemo. I meant if he can identify the leaked songs with the demos on the cd or not.


Maybe uni?

ah sorry, no i don't think he has. But i think it was also said that he didn't listen to it other than on Trunks show.


I'm recalling this stuff from memory BTW and that was going on 3 years ago. I have trouble remembering last week let alone 3 years ago. :hihi: maybe darknemus or Pilferk or gigger can confirm if my statements are correct or not : ok:

Piazza is supposed to be the one who received the domo cd from an anonymous fan by post in the first place and is a big fan of GNR. Maybe he even reads GNR boards? :hihi:

Why not contact jarmo for verification?

What purpose does editing out the personal info have? ?To do so, I'd have to edit the headers of the email, my initial question, and a whole host of other info. ?And the email would then have been edited, calling into question it's validity.

The email has been sent to trustworthy people for verification. ?You just want to bury your head in the sand on the issue, and ignore it. ?I'm sure jarmo will nicely confirm it says exactly what I say it says:

"No, it wasn't".

In addition, I'm sure he'll confirm the paraphrased question was: Was Better on the CD that contained the IRS leak you played.

And, if for some reason he doesn't have the email anymore, or remember it's contents (and I have no doubt, if that were true, he'd have said so in one of these threads on the subject), I'd be happy to forward it to him again.

Pretty simple, really.



Really? ?Prove it.

Your OPINION on Trunk's memory is irrelevant. ?And you can't prove, without talking to him, that his memory is fuzzy ON THIS ITEM or AT THIS TIME.



No, you haven't. ?You've shown an interview that shows he was fuzzy on being VERY SPECIFIC when describing the remaining tracks. If Better wasn't there, how do you suggest he describe it? How do you suggest he tell you, in an interview on details, what's NOT THERE? ?You've taken quotes OUT OF CONTEXT and shown nothing. ?Not a scrap of proof he's wrong.


LOL, pretty funny considering you've done the exact same thing in trying to "prove" Trunk is mistaken.

Be that as it may, your quote:

"I'm going to drop this until I hear from Trunk or enough time passes that I can safely assume he can't be arsed to reply."

from about March 11th at about 10:20 PM Eastern. 4 - 5 days (not a week...) ago. ?And given you're emailing him at work, and couldn't really expect much before Monday, at the earliest....

Face it, you just can't keep your mouth shut on the issue when your fantasy is being so completely sacked. ?


But he remembered what IRS sounded like when the splat interview occured.....and called it IRS.


I did answer your question. ?But, once again, you didn't read it. ?And I'm not going to reprint and bold it for you this time. ?I've answered that question, from you, twice now.


Again, I answered you. Apparently you're the one who needs "babying" because you sure miss a lot of the printed words in my posts. ?If, as you claim, you have some semblance of knowledge when it comes to the law, you'd know how a real gag order would work. ?He wouldn't be able to even discuss the subject, never mind confirm or deny something.

As in, a gag order would prevent him from saying "No, it wasn't", just as much as it would prevent hiim from saying "Yes, it was".  His only response could be NO reponse, or a firm "No comment".

Theory blasted to hell.


How could Better be hard to guess? Given it's in the chorus?

As for not remembering the titles....maybe something has jogged his memory, recently, eh? ?Like maybe actually hearing Better, and US having a title to reference it?? How could he deny it was on the CD 3 years ago when nobody knew it existed?



Nobody asked him specifics, maybe? ?Nobody directly asked "Was there a song called Better on the CD?" Or those that did, didn't print the material for public consumption? ?


Probably could, if he HEARD THE SONG at the time of the question. ?Fact is, he denies it now. ?Why you have a hard time with that is beyond me. ?But cling to your fantasy. ?Your ranting is good theater, if nothing else.


Trunks account is certainly more believable than your fantasy, which has no proof. ?Again, you weren't there. ?You didn't hear it. ?He was, and he did. ?How is your opinion on the matter at all relevant? ?It'd be like a blind man arguing with someone who can see over the sky being blue.

LOL...the fact you'd even make the comparison ?between those two situations (tooth fairy and trunk) is laughable.

Your parents were perpetuating a childhood fantasy.

Trunk was answering a direct question.

Prove it.

But, you can't.  So, it's speculation.

And no more well founded than other theories on the subject.

So stop stating your obvious opinion as fact.

Unless, of course, you actually have proof??....

C'mon people now, smile on your brother... everybody get together try to love one another right now.

Go for it.

I've sent a letter to him through the Padres organizaion, tried to contact him through their media dept (denied), and attempted to contact him through his agent.

So far, no response.

I believe, LONG AGO, that Mysteron confirmed they did, indeed, know where the CD originated from.

yeah it's possible, but I think it was said he was a big fan of Music in general

but for the Fan to mail it to him in the first place....must be a fan with connections since this 'Fan' a) had GnR recordings of unreleased stuff that has pretty much been held under wraps and b) had/has Mike Piazza's home address

I think at the time everyone speculated/assumed that Axl sent him the stuff directly, but since Piazza said it was from a 'Fan' that got me thinking it was someone outside GnR, so when i got the BLS album and saw Piazza's name i said well, Zakk knows Axl and always said he was a 'Fan' and to put someone in your liner notes on an album you must know that person (but just a guess there :hihi: )

just mere speculation, not necessarily any truth to my assumptions, in fact I'm prolly way off. but I read the liner notes for every album i listen to, and as far as i can recall that's the first time I've seen Piazza's name

again who gives a shit where the leak came from... or who the leaker was... you got the tracks so shut the fuck up already..

yeah and i seem to recall Piazza saying he received it in his mail "at home". So.....that would lead me to believe it was not through his fan mail


just talking about stuff til the CD is released man. you alternate posts like this and real posts :hihi: make up your mind leesixxrose :peace:

im just wondering why all the arguing about who leaked it or from what disk??? really who cares just as long as the songs are out there... people get the songs and then fight like its the end of the world when they dont know who leaked them...

Not interested in the topic...don't read the discussion.

its humorus to listen to you all cry about the leaks like you had anything to do with them. that and your sources that you have on the internet. you help me pass time at work...

So, then, it is interesting to you, in some way......

Nope, not at all.? I had zero to do with the leaks, and my main "source" on the subject is Trunk, himself.

Gigger and darks info was relativley new to me, but interesting all the same.....

not crying about it. trying to solve a puzzle ;D ever watch CSI? :peace:

If there are any new unreleased songs out there then maybe they will leak soon too ... Yeah i watched CSI but i dont think that even those guys could solve this mystery as to who the leaker was or what disk had what.... too many people on GnR boards lie their asses off .....

Which is EXACTLY why I sent the email I got from Trunk off to jarmo and madison.

That way, no one has to take my say so.

Editing headers is child's play, so don't make it sound difficult. You've chosen not to post it, which affects the weight I would give it. It's unfortunate that I didn't get a reply from Trunk, but such is life. If he happens to reply later, I'll post it, with a lovely little 127.0.0.1 in place of the IP's in the header.

I chose to contact Trunk rather than Jarmo. Keep in mind I'm not questioning that you got a mail from Trunk, I'm questioning Trunk's memory AND motives.


He made public comments STATING his memory was fuzzy in regards to the TRACKS ON THE CD & THE NUMBER OF TRACKS. Those are PROVEN statements from Trunk. That he, two years later, told you something about BETTER leaves LOTS of room for questioning, since he couldn't pinpoint the # of tracks without "I think". It's not "my opinion", it's "my opinion based on Trunks own words."

On this item? You're right, I can't 100% say it, but the fact that he was iffy before certainly makes me suspect he might be iffy now. Especially when I'm not the only one questioning him, and one of the others he is correctly predicted leaks that happened.


In what way were those quotes taken out of context? When asked how many tracks were on the CD, he said "I think." For all we know, he didn't hear the full CD and missed Better. Or, misidentified it. Or can't speak about song titles.



Good. You went back to my original quote. It's 5PM Thursday roughly. I've had days with hundreds of emails. I tend to put them in priority and answer them. Those that I'm not answering, I discard. In general, after two days, I've answered anything I intend to, because the next day's shit has already come in.


It's a free forum my friend. Fact is, I'm starting to suspect it's a blow to your ego that not everyone agrees with you. I'll open my mouth when and where I see fit. If I'm wrong in the end, I'll own up to it.


IRS was written on the CD and played on the show. In that instance, I don't think anyone would care if he talked about it's name - it was well known. What management would be concerned with is keeping the other tracks quiet. Say someone has CITR, and they know a CD was out there with TWAT - that might make people work. IRS was blown. Other names were not.


I did answer your question.  But, once again, you didn't read it.  And I'm not going to reprint and bold it for you this time.  I've answered that question, from you, twice now.

You said you didn't ask about TWAT - did he mention it at all? You don't need to have asked him for it to have come up in the conversation. Aside from you saying "Was better on the CD", did you ask him ANYTHING about the CD?

Now maybe you understand why we question this email that wasn't posted, because there's a bunch of other worthwhile questions. And apparently, they were not asked.


Oh my lord. You're referring to a gag order given out by a JUDGE, which we know DID NOT happen in this instance.

What would be FAR more likely, since Trunk was cooperating and no judge was ever involved, was that Trunk made some kind of agreement. I.E. Don't give out specifics, don't give out track names.

Funny how he hasn't given specifics or names...


You're basing your whole argument on an official gag order that did not happen. From Trunk's own description of meeting Axl's reps, this was a friendly exchange - a don't do it again. I can't even remember if a C&D was issued, but a C&D can be given by a lawyer, what you refer to as a "gag order" is given by a judge.

Nothing is blasted to hell.

Management could have put ANY stipulations on him and you have no idea what they might be.


Better does not sound like a typical GNR track name, based on their past. In fact it's probably the simplest name for a track out of any GNR song. "Alone" is also in the chorus. It would be equally suspect as the title to someone who didn't know the title beforehand.


That's possible, but the point here is, other sources have said it WAS the Trunk CD. That same source  basically said which tracks were gonna leak prior to them leaking, and they did. This to me makes the source more credible than an email you got from Trunk with no followup questions based on shit he heard three years ago that he may or may not want to talk about at this point.


You have a point in this case, but only in regards to Better. There Was A Time is a well known track name and those words are all over the song. Yet he never mentioned it. Even Dark says that was on the Trunk CD. I find it hard to believe that he didn't know what track that was if he actually listened to the full CD.

Lets recap:

Two sources say TWAT was on the Trunk CD.
TWAT was a known title at the time Trunk got the CD.
Trunk claimed to have at least skimmed the CD in the car, although he wasn't 100% sure on the number of tracks on the CD.
Trunk never, once, said TWAT was a title, instead he said he didn't know what the other tracks were, and that he knew IRS because the CD said it.

This guy couldn't put two and two together? When asked about the other tracks he said he didn't have the names. I would at least expect "It might have been that song TWAT" or "I think it was that song TWAT." It lends credence to the idea that he was asked not to talk about track names or specifics.


When did he deny hearing the song? Are you referring to TWAT or Better? If he didn't hear one track, there easily could have been more shit he hasn't heard.


You weren't there either. You've put all your chips on Trunks words, and every time I see them, another contradiction appears.

Note: Due to character limit I had to cut out a lot of quotes.

Pilferk and Kyrie should just hold a public debate on the topic at locations around the world. :hihi:

Wow, I think my head just spun  reading this thread, but its fasinating all the same. Ill just stick to listening to the music . Continue.

actually with the proper equipment, you can rip a cd to a hard drive while it's playing. of course that would mean the dj equipment would have to be hooked up to a pc of some sort.
My friend is a part time dj for parties and bars. he has a laptop that he hooks up to his equipment and some of his music is kept on it, and he says that he's ripped cd's that people have asked him to play while he was playing them.

yea you just need an audio line in to your computer (yopu could even use a microphone) and record it using whatever software (I think windows even comes with a recorder that records wav files???)

Recently there were a couple of threads about those "Metal guys" and their radio show, where they talked about GNR and the leaks. Well in one of these conversations, they seemed to be heavily implying that the disc may have been given to Piazza by none other than Zakk Wylde, and that the "I received it in the mail" story was made up to protect the real source.

Just more fuel to the fire, but Zakk may very well have had access to this type of stuff.

frozen_Inferno:  I act like a what?

thats man : ok:

wow!!! are you serious? any real info on it. like an article or anything??

are you on drugs?... why do you ask so many questions? n00b.

Hmm, interesting, but still I think unlikely... if Axl saw a PC/laptop around, I'd like to think he'd twig...

It'd be like seeing Winnie the Pooh next to the beehive and not worrying about the honey.

Coz you make no sense. I'm just trying to understand you...!

Oh!, No U Di'NT! >:(

Yes, I know. ?The point is....editing it all masks my personal information, but doesn't validate the email.

So there's no point to it. You have the whole gist.? Is better on the cd? No it wasn't.? That's the nutshell. Anything else there was irrelevant.

And you're questioning Trunks memories and motives based purely on speculation, and twisting his quotes around to meet your fantasy.


He made A PUBLIC COMMENT that said his memory was fuzzy about the specifics ON WHAT THE TRACKS SOUNDED LIKE. ?Adding an parenthetical "I think", and attributing that to being hazy is, again, being overly analytical on his semantics. ?And it's not proof he was wrong. ?You're speculating, simply to try to twist the situation to fit your fantasy. ?No proof is no proof.

And it is your opinion, based on zip, zero, nada. ?Nothing remotely conclusive or concrete except speculation.

Again, your OPINION vs an actual eyewitness account. ?Sounds sorta silly, don't it?



In the way all quotes are taken out of context. ?Read the entire interview(s) and you'll see exactly how. ?I'm not going to be your English teacher. ?But, first and foremost, he was never asked "how many tracks were on CD". ?He was asked to describe what else was on the CD. Second, the (I think) was taken direclty from his press statement issued at the time, not an interview. ?Again, you're assigning context where there is none. ?You've done it all through this discussion. ?You paraphrase to fit your agenda, not to reflect what was actually talked about.

 ?And he said he listened to the remainder of the tracks on his commute home. ?As to the rest...speculation with no proof. ?And on the "can't speak about song titles", again...theory blow to hell..but we'll get to that in a sec.


Ah, so Trunk is supposed to adhere to your standards of "email reply timelines". ?Didn't realize we all needed to do things your way. ?

Again, I think everyone knows why you replied.....and it had nothing to do with your "appropriate time frame" having passed.


Sure it is a free forum. ?It's still interesting when someone says they're not going to talk about something...and then they do. ?Adds a certain "credibility factor", ya know?

As for your suspicion, rest at ease, nothing on this forum is, was, or ever will be a blow to my ego. ?This forum, and this discussion, is an interesting way to pass time. ?Which is why your rantings, quite frankly, are such good theater. ?Nothing that happens here has any ramifications on "real life", and, quite frankly, the subject itself is pretty miniscule on the global importance scale. ?But i do llike to debate....that's for sure. ?Check the "old" political threads. :)

My point is...2 years later he remembered it well enough to identify it for Splat. ?Yet you don't think him capable of doing the same when saying, definitively, something else wasn't there. ?An odd juxtoposition, eh?


No, I asked him if Better was on the CD leaked to him. ?It was the only quesiton I wanted answered...

He answered my question, which wasn't about TWAT. ?I only asked about Better. ?How many times do I have to say the same thing? ?If you think there are other worthwhile questions to be asked....find a way to get him to respond.


Lots of speculation, with not a whit of proof or evidence to support it. ?

Oh, and YOUR statement, which I answered:

"And has anyone considered that Trunk might be under a gag order as to what songs are out there?"

Gag orders are only issued by judges. ?If you meant something else, you should have said it.

And, again, if Trunk were under some sort of legal (or even friendly) agreement with Sanctuary, he couldn't say "No, it wasn't" anymore than he could say "Yes, it was". ? Any assertion otherwise is a fallacy. Period.


No, you referred to a gag order. ?A gag order is a gag order. ?Anyone who has any experience in the legal world knows that. ?If you didn't mean a gag order...don't call it one.
And it is blasted to hell. ?Any sort of agreement with management, friendly or otherwise, would have resulted in a strict "no comment". ?Period. ?Again, see Trunk's response to his XM termination.

And neither do you have any clue what his agreement (if any) with management included. ?So anything you say on the subject is rampant speculation with not one iota of proof to support it. ?Not that that's surprising. ?That description describes your entire argument on this subject.


The word is repeated over and over and over in succession. ? But it's a moot point anyway. ?He couldn't guess a title of something that wasn't there, in any event. ?


ONE other source, (Intensity) who now isn't so sure. You also have dark and gigger saying otherwise. ?In addition, all Intensity's info about the leaks came from one source. ?I know that source. ?They believe the exact same thing I do. ?In fact, I'm sure they just had a good chuckle reading your above paragraphs. ?But it's not my place to out that person on a public forum.

I sent no followup questions to Trunk because I needed no more answers. ?And I'm not going to pester him now because, quite frankly, I still don't need any more answers.

That you find an internet poster with 3rd hand, unverifiable, questionable information more credible than words from Trunk, himself, speaks volumes about the lengths you'll go to to try and hang on to your fantasy. ?Any judge or counselor in the land would LAUGH at that statement...

But see, I only need to make the point in reference to Better.? Why he didn't talk about TWAT, or if he knew the song title or not, is an independant issue.? Perhaps he wasn't sure, so didn't want to comment.? Perhaps he just couldn't pull the title out of the chorus. Perhaps you're right, and he was asked NOT to give out the actual titles on the CD (which is exactly why he COULD deny that Better was there....he wasn't confirming what was there).? Perhaps about 200 other reasons. All of it is speculation. You're speculating on motivations with no evidence or proof that they're correct.? It's the "what if" game....

And again, it's amusing you'd bring up the fact that, when he's not sure, he qualifies his answers that way.? But then, in his response to me, answers definitively.? I think that's really all you need to know on the subject.

He's pretty good at being clear with what he wants to say.


Better.? He denied it was on the CD.



Exactly my point.? Thus, why I contacted one of the two people we knew were there.? I'd actually offer up that Trunk is a damn site more believeable than ME OR YOU, if we HAD been there, because he's more credible, in general.

No, every time you see them you try to interpret them further to fit your fantasy.? That's not a contradiction.? It's supposition...where none is really needed.

So, now...I've layed out a very compelling case.

So far, you've not provided one iota of actual evidence or proof to support your opinon.? ? What you have provided is quotes, taken out of context or who's questions you've paraphrased beyond recognition, which you then interpret to support your position (and which have NOTHING, really, to do with the item at hand, since they weren't asked at the time of, or in conjunction with, the Better leak) and a whole lotta speculation.? How about you provide a bit more, now.? Lets see your evidence....why you cling so desperately to this "theory".? Have at it.? Lay it all out.? Lets see it.

I've never questioned you on the validity of the email, I'm simply curious to see what if anything else you asked.

EDIT: You answered this question later in your response. Nothing. Which is not what I would have done.


The quotes I posted were exactly what he said.


You misread his quote perhaps. The "I think" was in reference to the NUMBER of tracks, NOT about what they sounded like. So he's been fuzzy on two seperate issues here.


I didn't paraphrase at all. I posted the exact quote earlier in this thread.  Although he wasn't asked a direct question, he VOLUNTEERED info on the number of the tracks, and he was unsure of it. Maybe he was covering his ass. But no one twisted his words.


I used my standards of judgement. Quit crying. I'm not holding him to anything, but 4/5ths of the working week went by.


Again. Quit crying. I did EXACTLY what I said I would.


Lets see. Track name written on CD. Track aired on show.

Other track name unknown, not aired on show, skimmed in the car, MAYBE.

One of these things aren't quite like the other, one of these things are not the same...


I would have asked more questions had I been you. Actually I did, but that's a moot point.


Your private thoughts VS. Public record. And I quote, directly from identified sources, just so you don't accuse me of paraphrasing again when I haven't:

"Not all of the calls were complimentary, however. One was from GN'R management, which issued a verbal cease-and-desist order. - MTV"

VERBAL CEASE AND DESIST.

"I could not have been cooler in how I co-operated at the time. I even offered to strip it from my rebroadcast, which they were unaware of at the time. I could have duped it, played it 10 times, put it on my site. - Metal Sludge"

CO-OPERATED.

"Because Trunk often deals with the same management company and has a professional relationship with them, he didn't argue with the request. - MTV"

DIDN'T ARGUE.

There was NO OFFICIAL GAG ORDER. Trunk did whatever was asked of him. We do not know what that includes. One would assume it simply referred to the airing of tracks, but who knows.


You know damn well that I wasn't referring to a gag order in the specific legal context. That's a pretty common phrase, I refuse to believe you're that ignorant.


Wrong. He could very well say that.


Again. You made a mistake and want to weasel out of it. That's a common phrase. Need I spell everything out for you?

There's such a thing as common sense.

I've had experience, quite a lot, in the legal world, dealing with technical evidence and data forensics. I'm not a lawyer, however. Just to be clear.

As you just found out, Trunk's exchange with management was AFAIK a handshake deal, based on a verbal cease and desist from lawyers. The specifics of his cooperation are not known by YOU, and they are not known by ME. They COULD entail not talking about tracks or specifics, in addition to obviously not broadcasting/distributing the songs in any way. They COULD entail plausible denial when it comes to questions like "is this song on the CD." Despite your insistance, nothing prevents Trunk from saying NO when asked if a song was there.


Bullshit. You don't know what any agreement would entail. He could have been told not to mention specifics. His termination under a contract does not equate to some kind of handshake deal.

I'm speculating. I could be wrong. You are also speculating, so stop trying to portray it like "It must be a strict no comment" - that is 100% baseless on your part. Look into words like "could" and "maybe", you're missing a few dozen of them in your posts.


Your theory, not mine. The point is, Better is far less easy to guess than You Could Be Mine. Or There Was A Time, for that matter, a song Trunk also failed to identify.


WRONG. The source I was referring to is NOT Intensity, but another poster who predicted the leaks on at least two forums a day in advance and was correct (I'm referring to the instrumental leaks, but he/she even got the short TWAT correct if I recall, and said there would be no CITR instrumental. Could be a lucky guess of course).


Since I don't know them, frankly, I don't care. I'd be more interested if THEY posted.

In the greater context, TWAT's lack of mention suddenly becomes important. Not an independant issue at all. I don't believe he couldn't pull the title out of the chorus, we all got it on the very first try.

So either he skimmed so fast that we really can't rely on him, he missed it entirely, or for some reason unknown, he has chosen not to talk about it.

All of that impacts on the third track and whether it's Better or Prostitute.

Denial to some random email is not going to get him in shit.


Bravo, you've clued into the fact that ALL of this is speculation.


I beg to differ.


Trunk is more credible, in general? Why? Because he's a radio host? Since I don't know the guy personally, I'm not about the speculate as to whether he's more credible than me or not. Or you. What I am doing is basing things of public comments he has made. And based on those comments, in which he has refrained from giving specifics, definitively picking a number of tracks, or naming any track on the CD besides IRS, I choose to question his response to you.


Show me a SINGLE quote I have paraphrased beyond recognition.

My theory is simple, based on similarities between the Trunk CD and the leaks, Trunk's inability to identify ANY of the other tracks on the CD in ANY *PUBLIC* statement, his inability to pinpoint the NUMBER of tracks definitively, and comments from at least one and possibly two sources (I have no idea who Mr. I's source is and for all I know it's the same person who predicted the leaks so thus one and MAYBE two), the CD Trunk got was likely to have the same contents as what's now been leaked. With the exception of CITR, which I do think at this point came from another source.

As to Dark's source, I asked him some followup questions and he hasn't replied yet. Which is fine since not much time has gone by. But dark indicated his info is three years old as well. We learnt of the title to Better only recently, and I'm curious to know how versed Dark's source is on GNR/titles etc.

The problem with these "sources" is, and it applies to me, you, dark, gigger, etc., is that unless they go on record, none of us can so much as question their statements, so how much weight should we really give them?

And I've said, over and over, there was nothing else pertinent there. ?But, again, apparently you're not reading it.


But not in exact relation to what was asked or when he said it.



No, I read it perfectly fine. ?It just doesn't come from where you say it came from. ?He was never asked "how many tracks were on the CD". ?The statement you're attributing to a question came from a statement where no questions were asked.

Assigning context where there was none.


Read what I wrote. ?You paraphrased the supposed quesion the quote was attributed to. ?There was no question. ?You're not twisting HIS words, you're twisting the words of the interview/statement to paint a picture that doesn't exist.

He VOLUNTEERED info and qualified it. ?Didn't qualify his reply to me. ?Speaks volumes, no?


From your first statement on the subject? ?Again, we know why you broke your word.....


I disagree. ?As I said....sure shows a "credibility factor".


But heard both pieces of music ONCE, presumably. ?And could confirm it was on CD by listening. ?It wasn't the name he was confirming. ?We knew the name of the track he played, already. ?It was the piece of music.

2 pieces of music...both from the same CD, in your opinion...both heard by Trunk (he said he listened to the rest on the way home). ?One you believe him to remember, one you don't. ?Bit of a stretch, at best.


Maybe because you needed more answers. ?I didn't/don't.

Again, if you want to ask more questions, fire away. ?Find a way to get him to respond....


Again, you're speculating. ?Prove it. ?Of course, you can't. ?NOTHING in the above statements has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING we're discussing here. ?Unless you see something up there that says "I forged a handshake deal with management to not ever discuss anything to do with the CD" (obviously not true, since he did discuss some details).

YOUR private opinion vs his words. ?Not a very strong case, again.


I only know what you post. ?You claimed legal knowledge. You use the term, you're responsible for the discussion and the turns it takes.


No, he couldn't. ?Otherwise it would violate the agreement.

Either he can talk about the contents, and spill his guts if he remembers things, on all subjects.

Or he can't talk about the actual contents.

In either case, his statement of "No, it wasn't" is valid. ?In the first scenario, he'd be fine.

In the second scenario, if Better wasn't there, he wouldn't be actually talking about the contents.

So, the only way he would be unable to comment is if Better WAS on the CD. ?And, in that case, he'd have to say "no comment", because NOT talking about something means NOT talking about it. ?Not lying about it.

Blown to hell.


Au contraire. You made the mistake. ?You called it a gag order...after, earlier, talking about having some sort of legal knowledge. ?What you need to do is say what you mean....or back up what you say. ?


I agree. ?Display some. ?We're on a forum. ?If you use a common legal term, after asserting legal knowledge, and then want it to mean something else...qualify it. ?Or back it up.


LOL....nor do you have any idea what the agreement would entail. ?But look at the layout above. ?It's the way it would sorta have to work...unless you can present a more logical or feasible situation.

It's a catch-22..and you're caught firmly in the middle.

On the "coulds" or "maybe's"...considering your posts, I wouldn't comment to much on that. ?ALL you do is speculate. ?I've yet to see any actual proof.


Your OPINION. ?Certainly not fact.

And, again, you assume Trunk ?failed to identify it (I've yet to see anyone actually ask him for track titles in an interview or in his statements). ?You speculate he didn't mention the title because he didn't know it.

Notice the common thread in all your arguments?


Ah, so now another nameless, faceless, unverifiable internet source vs the words of Eddie Trunk himself. ?Still not such firm footing.

And the instrumentals leaking (general timeframe)? ?Not what I would base credibility on. ?The knowledge of when, about a day before each, was too widely known.


They did. ?Read back a ways.

As for dark and gigger, well...

You keep quoting sp1at's interview, but don't know who gigger is? ? That's sorta funny, actually.....

And dark originally leaked (through someone else) the original crappy IRS....and helped (dark can correct or refresh my memory) Saint Saiya (who got them from Wes) to get other tracks out there.

Goddamn.  Get in the ring, fuckers. :hihi:

This thread reads like a bad Dan Brown novel...

Not so. ?TWAT, again, is a seperate issue. ?You can try to shoehorn it in to this one, simply to fit your fantasy, but....well, again, more speculation that one has anything at all to do with the other. ?Rampant, unsupported speculation.  You're assuming a "greater context" when, in reality, you haven't proved a link that would create one.

Denial in some random email that he knew was going to be shared might, though, eh?


Except, that is, the words from Trunk himself:

"No, it wasn't".





I'm sure YOU do. ?But I think it's pretty clear that it's true.? Especially considering ALL Eddie's statements on a number of different issues, and not just the ones concerning IRS/GnR.


Because:
a) He's a public figure who trades on his reputation
b) He has an impeccable repuation and is well respected in the music industry
c) He's widely regarded as something of a music historian
d) He's neither nameless, nor faceless.

It seems to me you're saying you know pretty much nothing about Eddie EXCEPT what those very brief public comments say. ?That, right there, says all it needs to about your "opinion". ?It's not informed, it's COMPLETELY speculative.

What you are doing, in fact, is taking comments not specifically about THIS situation, and trying to apply them to it. ?That, in and of itself, isn't valid. ?In addition, the quotes don't nearly mean what you assert they mean in many cases. ?Again, you warp or attribute meaning to them to support your "theory"......

And again...in every other instance where he has wanted to be vague or non-specific, he's done so. ?Yet, not in his response to me.


I've done so repeatedly. ?You must've, once again, missed them. ?Hell, you even misread what I said about paraphrasing. Not the quotes...the context/questions of the quotes.


So, to sum it up: You have no proof, whatsoever. ?What you have is complete speculation vs a categoric statement by Trunk,himself. ?That's pretty much what I thought.


I know the answer, but I'll let dark answer for himself, if he so chooses. ? It's sorta a moot point, since, again, you won't be able to "validate" the source.


Thanks for making my point for me. ?All of the above (including dark and gigger, who I trust) vs an actual statement by Trunk. ?A definitive, non wishy washy, non qualified statement from someone who actually held the CD in ?his hands, listened to it, and has a professional repuation for pulling archaic music knowledge from his brain, on air, at a moments notice, concerning 30 year old rock acts with one or two hits.

I'm sorry...after reading that...I need to go have a good laugh.

It's not nearly worth that.....at least not to me.

I fight for things that are important. Like my family.? Or my life.? Or beer.? :hihi:

Which leads me to this:

Those reading this should know that, if I bumped into kyrie at the local bar, I'd acutally buy him a couple.

And we'd have a loud, boisterous discussion about something, I'm sure.

But the point is, I don't want anyone to think, on my end, that this is anything other than spirited debate.

Jeesh, I hope it's nearly that entertaining for everyone else.

But, well....I doubt it is.

I just hope we're not boring everyone.

honestly, does it matter at this point who the leaker/leakers are? does it affect the tour or anything else officially related to the band? whoever they are and whatever source they got the leaks from, they did us a fine service in giving us a taste of CD, but i think the whole issue is being driven to the point of nonsense.

That's why I dont read books!!!!

Too boring

I just really want to hear "Prostitute" now............ :yes:

You have to pick up the right book.

ooops,  ;)

Too late...I saw the original...

:)

But I won't tell.

Not that I even understood your post.

Sent a PM your way. :)

You replied before I edited the post. Yes. I see you did answer the question later.



He was asked about the other tracks on the CD. The question he was asked was not reprinted in the article.


Thus, he volunteered the information. Who cares if he was ASKED how many tracks there were, he CHOSE to give a statement. What the fuck do you think he was talking about when he made that statement? Another fucking CD? The entire article was about the IRS leak.


No question was printed. Fine. Then he volunteered the fucking statement. Tell me how you interpret his words then? When he said there was a certain number of tracks, then said "I think", he was actually talking about pink elephants?


This is getting pathetic. I said I would reply again when it was clear there would be no response. I didn't break my word, I kept it as I said, and now you're crying because I dispute your theory. If you can't handle that, you're using the wrong medium.

There's no credibility factor here and you know it. 


I believe he SHOULD remember TWAT. Yet he's never spoken of it. Which causes doubt to exist in my mind.


You are 100% correct. I need more answers before I choose to believe Trunk.


Again, if you want to ask more questions, fire away.  Find a way to get him to respond....


You are 100% correct! Bingo! I'm speculating!!!

Now, guess what? When you said "he can't say NO if he made an agreement" - I'm paraphrasing you this time - YOU ARE ALSO SPECULATING.

You're taking things said in two different posts and trying to meld them together to fix your mistake. I don't believe for a second you thought I was referring to a court ordered gag order, because it's common fucking knowledge that it never went to a court.


Did we not just cover this? YOU don't know any more than I do anything about any agreement, other than the fact that from the evidence I presented from past coverage of the issue, he co-operated and there was a verbal C&D given initially.

You don't know if he was asked to deny shit or not. Don't pretend you're privy to this info. I've admitted I'm speculating, at least be a man and do the same. The ONLY info you have is your email, which had ONE question and one question only that related to this issue.


You have zero proof of this. The only thing blown to hell is your argument. You have no idea any more than I do what Trunk was told/argeed to. End of story.

Stop trying to come off as the great seer, because it's damn obvious that ANYTHING could have been agreed to by Trunk, including but not limited to not listing specifics, denying the existence of tracks, and not talking about track names.


Common phrase. I'm not going over this again. It was common knowledge that this never went to court, I thought you were intelligent enough to put two and two together and realize that I was using this term to indicate a non-official agreement to shut up about certain info.

I was wrong. Obviously you couldn't put that together.



What this amounts to is "my speculation is better than your speculation." You've made posts on here sounding as if you KNOW what an agreement with Trunk would entail when you don't know any more than I do.

A reasonable situation is that he can't give specifics and must deny knowing what is on the CD. In three years, he gave only vague statements regarding anything other than the track actually aired.


You're right, no one asked him names, but they did ask him for descriptions. You'd think he might volunteer the names if he could. Speculation, again, but it's got merit.


I admit that later on. Which is why my #1 source of info in suspecting this is the Trunk CD is public statements about it.


They did.  Read back a ways.

The SOURCE posted? Or someone representing the source? I saw dark referring to a source and gigger referring to a souce - big difference.


Now who's twisting words?

I never said I don't know who gigger is. I said I DON'T KNOW HIM. Do you see the difference in THOSE two statements?

I also know WHO dark is, but I don't KNOW him. Difference between seeing someone posting and actually knowing them.

that is a long post, maybe a little toooo much

I keep seeing these long ass replies from you two having stopped reading them pages ago.

Do both of you realize that all this time you are spending on equally well thought out and articulate posts are going nowhere.

You two haven't gotten anywhere yet.

You're both squared off nose to nose spinning your wheels with neither moving the other one inch.

Who cares where they came from. ?The truth may never come out. ?I'm happy that I have them not giving a fuck where they came from.

They came from some disc somewhere and CITR was a flat out gift from the gods. ?Enjoy 'em.

And be further thankful that Axl has come out of his shell.....if he ever was really in one.....and is preparing to regain his crown as the "King of Rock".

A couple of things:

A. Boston - interesting post before your edit. :)

B. kyrie, check your PMs when you get a chance, please.

C. I don't know Pilferk personally (as in, we've never met) but I know him well enough over 3+ years of online communication that I feel I can trust him impilicitly when it comes to any information that he shares.

-darknemus

You already know what I think of Trunk's response.

TWAT becomes an item of interest when talking about the idea that Trunk has failed to mention track names.


Eddie's statements on other issues don't have much relevance here IMO. Is he a respected radio personality? Yes. But I don't take his word over others just because of it, nor does it make him infallable.


Public figure means nothing. Weiland is a public figure and wrote a childish diatribe on a website. Pee Wee Herman was a public figure.

Reputation in the music industry - this I would give some weight if it weren't for the nature of this issue.

Being a music historian has NOTHING to do with this issue.

D is the only point you make that really has much merit.


I know the basics of who he is, I've never listened to his show.

You put far too much faith on that fact that he's a "pubic figure."


Again. Was Eddie talking about Pink elephants? No, he was talking about the leak.


You haven't done it once. You tried and failed miserably. His comments were in regards to the CD, the fact that a question was not printed or not asked does not CHANGE his comments. His comments were clear, he qualified his answer because he was not sure of it.


The "proof" is in the public statements. It's public statements vs. your Trunk email. And some sources going both ways. Could I be wrong? Yup. Could you be wrong? Yup.

Cheers. And I agree fully on those points. I'm a stubborn arse, but it's not personal.

Thanks dark.

I think this is the right thread to bring up my idea about post length.

I seriously think that a post should have a maximum word limit, say 150 words, thus ending the ridiculously long posts such as seen in this thread. This is a message board. The nature of the word 'message' does not imply essay-length posts. It is somewhere to exchange opinions and ideas quickly and easily, a virtual staccato conversation if you will.

I just think that if you are having to write more than 150 words to explain your point then your point cannot be very good in the first place...

Again, he wasn't asked anything.? You attributed a question where there wasn't one.? Pretty obvious, eh?? But continue to rant away....

You assigning context to the question, again, goes to the credibility factor....you're specifically trying to shoehorn the comments to fit your agenda.


Again, it goes to how credible your opinion is.? You attribute context where there wasn't any, to try to shoehorn the comments into your "theory".


I interpret them, given his "()", as just what they are.? A parenthetical addition to a statment voluntairly given.? Not a response to any direct question, which would change the meaning, to some extent.? I don't try to interpret them in order to bolster a fantasy.


Sure there is, but I don't pretend that you wouldn't deny it.? You have to deny it.? But, like lots of things you deny having merit, it does.


Again, you're assuming it was there, or that he'd want to give it a name, or that there wasn't an agreement preventing him from actually naming tracks on the CD, or 200 other reasons why.....speculating, once again.? And again.? And again.? And doing so simply to be able to bolster your "theory"....


No, you want more info because....well, you do.?I didn't need any more because...well, I didn't.  Remember, dark said he had a track list 3 years ago.  I talk to dark, regularly.  Put 2 and 2 together, and you have a pretty good idea of why I asked only the question that I did, and didn't ask about TWAT.

 If you want more answers, gett Eddie to respond.? That doesn't mean he's not correct...or reliable...

And whether YOU believe Trunk or not isn't relevant because YOUR opinion on his reliability isn't relevant.? Nor does it make him any less right.


Again, no I'm not.? If you think so, lay out something that is an alternative to the situation I laid out.? It's a pretty easy logical construct to understand.? Hell, I held your hand all the way through it.? You've provided, not surprisingly, no evidence to contradict it.


Your exact quote was:
"And has anyone considered that Trunk might be under a gag order as to what songs are out there?"

You called it a gag order.? You used the term.? If it's not what you meant, use a different term.? It's quite simple really: Say what you mean.



No, because I've laid out, logically, why it's true.? Provide an alternative to my logic, and I'll consider it.? But, so far, all you've done is rant.....and provide nothing but speculation.? No proof, no evidence, nothing.


No, I have a logical construct that covers all the reasonable bases.? You just don't like it.? Which isn't too surprising.....


So, your supposition is that someone who trades on their reputation would agree to an outright lie, compromising their integrity, to "help out"?? That's your assertion?? Wow....that's just.....you don't really expect anyone to believe that, do you?

Talk about fantasies.

I'm not any seer.? But I'm not blind, either.


It's not a common phrase.? It's a very specific thing.? I guess I DO have to quote definitions for ya, huh?

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gag%20order

If you're not talking about that very specific thing, use better terminology.? 'Nuff said.


I can only put together the pieces I'm given.? When 1/2 the puzzle pieces are left out, it's tough to get a clear picture, ya know?


I have a logical construct of the agreement laid out.? If you think there is any other possible way the agreement would go down, without making an assinine assertion like he'd compromise his integrity and lie, present it.


How is it reasonable to assume he'd lie?


It has merit? How so.? It's rampant and unfounded.? It has no merit, unless you're somehow psychic.


Public statements which have nothing to do with this situation, directly.? Shaky, at best.? Ludicrous, at worst.



Read your quote above.? You said "They".? Since you'd just referred to dark and gigger......you can see how, once again, you weren't exactly clear.


"I don't know them".? Again, if you meant "I don't know them, personally", maybe that's what you should have said.? "I don't know them" gives the distinct impression? you don't know who they are.

Except, once again, your opinion on his response is irrelevant.? You can't prove him wrong.? You can't prove he's being disingenious.? You can't prove he's lying.? You can rampantly speculate all those things, with no basis for it, and for reasons unknown, but you can't prove it.? Period.


To you, because you want to shoehorn it into your fantasy.? But that doesn't actually mean it's relevant.


Really?? So past behavior isn't any sort of predictor of future behavior?? Looking at quotes, in relation to other items, has no bearing on his current words?

If that's so, you just killed your own arguement.

The fact is, you have no reason to believe Eddie would lie, or is wrong.? No earthly reason.? You want to have one, so you continue to try to desperately cling to anything that might give the appearance of one...but that doesnt' mean it actually exists.



You mean an issue dealing with reliability which speaks directly to his reputation and credibility?? Yeah, right...nothing to do with this whatsoever.? ::)


So, the fact the guy is proven to be knowledgeable AND have pretty good recall on the subject has nothing to do with this?? Yeak, OK.


So you admit you know basically nothing about him.? That speaks volumes....

No, I put faith in the fact he's Eddie Trunk.? Knowing what I know about him.....it's NOT JUST the fact he's a public figure.  Way to take THAT quote out of context...


No, but he wasn't answering a direct question either.


In your opinion, of course.? And I'd venture that opinion is more than a wee bit "warped" on the subject.

It doesn't change his comments.? It changes the way you represented the comments.? In order to further your "theory".....



So, like I said, no proof.? Because the public statements aren't specifically about this issue.? At all.? So they don't really prove anything.

So, it's your SPECULATION about his public statements vs Eddie's own words on the subject.?

Again, reading that...I have to go chuckle.

I'm begining to agree, actually.

Is everyone else who might actually be reading this thread bored, too?

Yeah, why not make a recap?

Was the leaked tracks from management? Or did they come from Mr.Trunk?

Ok, so instead of reading through 11 pages of mindless debate, does anyone know the identity of the leaker yet?

Recap:

They didn't come from management.

Trunk says Better was not on the CD he had.

Kyrie, for some reason, thinks Trunk is lying or is just flat out wrong. ?

There's the recap...

Its not really the fact that its "boring", its just that you guys keep going in circles. You say pretty much the exact same thing in every post, and neither of you will budge an inch. Although I think you are both great debaters.


Someone needs to leak Prostitute, then we can see what direction your little debate over the Trunk cd goes. :hihi:

Thanks for the recap! Saved me some hours, I guess.

Without starting more pointless arguments or 500 word replies that no-one reads.....

What about the alternate version of Better; the one with the solo's in the right place and the real drums? Where did this come from? I've tried to read most of this thread but havn't seen it mentioned.

the alternate version by"imsorry" is fan-made.

Is it even known if there are indeed other tracks floating around out there?  I keep hearing rumors about Prostitute, The General, This I Love...

How did he make it? I've heard the fanmade one where somebody cut out the middle section and I can see how he could have added real drums but how did he rip the solo out and put it in a different place? If that's possible then surely it's possible to just remove the vocals to make the instrumentals

He didn't add "real" drums.  Here's part of the text from his nfo file:


Seems like he said he added some drumming via MIDI.

-darknemus

Did Sanctuary take any action against the leaker or don't they know who it is?

If i remember correctly.. i think "wes" said they contacted him and said he wasnt going to leak anymore tunes after that.

I'm going to keep this short and sweet since the topic is old and I was offline for a while.


He chose to comment on the contents and number of tracks on the CD. Regardless of if he was asked a direct question, it holds relevance. "Bush: We had good info on Iraq. I think. ... but since I'm volunteering this, you can't question me on it later" - imagine how that would fly.


My source, Mr. I's source both confirmed TWAT was there. Dark's source also believe TWAT was on the CD, dark posted that in this very thread. Now I have questioned dark's source, but I have no reason to believe TWAT *wasn't* on the CD. But yeah, it's speculation.


I want more info because I'm more likely to believe the simple scenario (tracks leaked from a known source) than the more complex one (multiple leaks), if only because security has been so tight over the years.


You are 100% speculating when you claim to know what Trunk did or didn't agree to. There's no if's or maybe's about it, you DO NOT KNOW. Neither do I.


I've already answered this. It's common knowledge that it never went to court. Gag order is a term that people use in common speech to refer to all kinds of deals, not just an official legal term.


Because your argument is logical, it's true? Your argument is speculation - you have no idea what Trunk may have agreed to. You have no proof, no evidence, no nothing yourself. The only credible thing you can say here is "I think."


I like it fine, but because something's logical does NOT make it true.


Telling someone Better was not on the CD would not compromise Trunk's integrity. You overestimate the public's interest in this; you also neglect the fact that if he did lie, OR was mistaken (and keep in mind I'm leaning to the latter), it would have been either under an agreement or simply due to the fact that he had very little time with the CD.


Please don't tell me the crux of your argument rests on one or two enteries from dictionary.com.

I can do that equally well:

"A gag order is an order, sometimes a legal order by a court or government, other times a private order by an employer or other institution, restricting information or comment from being made public." - Wikipedia (you can check the edit history to ensure I didn't recently edit that).

Dictionaries are not always up-to-date, dictionary.com is not comprehensive, and they don't always note when words/phrases are used outside of their original, intended meaning (or when they do, it's often years after the phrase has been altered by public usage). Equally, Wikipedia is open to anyone's opinion - but clearly I'm not the only person who saw "gag order" as being something that might be beyond a legal order by a judge.



Funny, your claim that you know what Trunk agreed to sounds awfully similar.


Talking about the content and number of tracks has everything to do if this situation, whether you like it or not.


Since they were posting in this thread, I assumed it would be obvious that I knew of them. Especially since I have already communicated with dark in this thread - and you MUST be aware of it, because I referred to that in a post to YOU.

You clearly you either weren't aware of it, or had forgot - either way, it's no fault of mine.

Again, you're stating the obvious. I cannot prove it. I have a theory.

Prosecutors also could not prove OJ guilty ;).

Oh, and there IS basis for it.


Past comments about the issue at hand hold bearing. Past comments on unrelated issues do not IMO. Find me a situation Trunk has been in similar to this. But being a good DJ and knowing music history doesn't make his memory of a CD he skimmed just once possibly any better. It doesn't make it impossible that he missed or misidentified a track.

You sound a little starstruck here.

The fact that he is Eddie Trunk doesn't mean he can't have missed a track in the short time he had the CD. It doesn't mean he couldn't have just skimmed the CD and, three years later, misidentified something.


The fact that he wasn't answering a direct question is wholly irrelevant since he chose to address the issue.


So you fault the articles for not specifically asking about a track whose title wasn't known at the time?  They remain the best source of info on the subject, since they are the ONLY statements on record in the public realm.

I'd go through and dissect (and there's a whole lot more wrongheadedness there to dissect...), but I, for one, am bored.? And tired of chasing my tail over such an obvious issue.

So let's sum up.

You choose to believe unfounded, rampant speculation over Trunk himself.

Fair enough.

I think that provides more than enough context to the entire discussion.....

"I'm going to keep this short and sweet"




How in the hell is that short and sweet?

Kinda reminds me of when Weiland said:

 :peace:

... to be honest, I'd rather fans did not mess with the tracks.

If someone adds something to it, or takes it away, it stops being Guns N Roses. It becomes a hybrid, which I don't wanna hear.

Just drop it for now.

I don't read the whole convo but I'm with kyrie. That doesn't mean I distrust pilferk or I'm certain of whatever about the leak but simply I'm yet to rule out the possibility. Maybe it's a totally different disc from the piazza one, maybe not.
I do appreciate the info. Thanks a lot.

I'm fed up with the ppl who doggedly try to force their judgement on others. They typically end up giving part of their debate to personal remarks to boots.

Your Winning or losing in a debate makes no difference to the truth. 
Enough is enough.