Here Today... Gone To Hell!

gen?ius? ? ( P )? Pronunciation Key? (jnys)
n. pl. gen?ius?es

Extraordinary intellectual and creative power.
A person of extraordinary intellect and talent: ?One is not born a genius, one becomes a genius? (Simone de Beauvoir).
A person who has an exceptionally high intelligence quotient, typically above 140.

A strong natural talent, aptitude, or inclination: has a genius for choosing the right words.
One who has such a talent or inclination: a genius at diplomacy.
The prevailing spirit or distinctive character, as of a place, a person, or an era: the genius of Elizabethan England.
pl. ge?ni?i (jn-) Roman Mythology. A tutelary deity or guardian spirit of a person or place.
A person who has great influence over another.
A jinni in Muslim mythology.

I would say that Axl Rose possesses "extraordinary intellectual and creative power." While I don't think that shows itself so much on "Appetite for Destruction," which merely demonstrates Axl's incredible voice and charisma, I would say that the Illusion album hints at, and the "Chinese Demos" demonstrate Axl's genius. Songs like "Dead Horse," "Estranged" and "Locomotive" are the work of a genius.? I would go on to say that "Catcher in the Rye" is easily as good as the best offerings from Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/the Beatles.

So what do you fans think. Axl Rose, genius?? ?

*do you consider Axl Rose to be a genius?*


no, not really.


EDIT: the topic of this thread has been changed from *do you consider Axl Rose to be a genius?* to *Axl Rose is the most underrated genius of the 80s-00s*  ???

Yes and no.

I just consider him to be one bad-ass amazing musician.

genious

As a musican. Maybe. Otherwise, No.

i think he his, lyricaly he's untouchable..him and uncle morrissey.

Excluding the "Chinese Demos," and just judging the Illusion work, I think "Estranged" best demonstrates Axl's genius. The composition--the light percussion over Axl's piano solo--beautiful, beautiful, beautiful...what a majestic piece of music. I would also say that Axl is a vocal genius. It's not just that he has range--a lot of singers are quite gifted, but put out awful music. Axl's voice, in the words of Brain May, is "like magic." There is so much emotion, so much soul, it is the most intensely satisfying thing on the ears--Anger, regret, nihilism, fear, love--all in one man's voice--genius.

This is why Axl Rose is the true heart and soul of Guns N' Roses.

Have to disagree with you there. Morrissey is in a league of his own.

Yeah, I love that Morrisey song about wanting to be loved while not wanting to eat meat :no: ::)

what track is that?

That was a joke.

Lyrically the smiths blow guns n roses out of the water.

How soon is now > Illusion albums.

pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase  :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Surely you jest.

I never really got the whole Smiths thing until about 2 years ago. I picked up both the The Very Best of the Smiths and Morrissey Greatest Hits followed by You Are the Quarry (somewhat ill conceived by fans but still good) and thought the songs and lyrics were really something.

I can go from Guns n'Roses to The Smiths to NIN to Buckethead maddness. Some times for a break Blind Melon to Metallica to small amounts of Dan Dig to some Happy House from NL's Party Animals http://www.partyanimals.nl/  ;D


Just found some cool Party Animals links [videos]:
- http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3732635472130265914&q=party+animals
Have you ever been Mellow http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6940181701179745409&q=party+animals
We Like to Partyhttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6913356726070252040&q=party+animals

i am a huge 80s fan as i have grown up during the 80s. i sometimes feel like im stuck in the 80s because i love the music from that time so much lol. i have so many favorite artists from that time and i rarely even listen to modern day music. i believe that axl rose is defintley one of the most amazing musicians, singers, songwriters, ever. i also believe that every musician is in a league of their own and i love everyone of them in their own special way.

IMO, No.

Axl Rose a genius? no chance! what Axl is a great rock singer songwriter. To be considered a genius you need to either be head and shoulders above the rest of the crowd or you have to bring something new.  Also, is Axl underrated? again probably not but we need to hear Chinese Democracy before we can make thet judgement.

I think you years are somewhat off date. Cause how can you label someone a "genius' when we practically didn't hear anything and/or anything new from in him between 1994-2001? :-\

Isn't that a bit of a stretch?

true, ..but what i meant was that their the best, for me axl and morrissey are genius.

I think Axl is a great composer as for genius I can't say he just was in the right place the right time, thats it I think  :-\

IMO, he's not a genius :-\

I think CITR and Estranged make Axl worthy of being called a genius.

I'll say he was a great frontman from 87-93.. 95 to 2006 a big zilch

you know what's funny, everyone acts like estranged was just a good song vocally and only axl did anything to contribute to it... The fucking song rocks more because it has amazing solos n riffs all through the damn song, otherwise it would be just a good song...

Yes, because he can't be much of a genious if he makes his girlfriend shit in a cat box.

How do we know for sure that Axl made Stephanie Seymour shit in a kitty litter box?

to be fair judging by you're picture and you're posts I can clearly see an overly conservative brainwahsed hillbilly,  far too thick to understand clever, challenging and thought provoking lyrics. I really dont expect you to understand the smiths anyway, so in the meantime crack open a can o gasoline and hail the under current of pure genius in lyrics such as "turn around bitch i got a use for you" and "get the money motherfucker cuz i got no more patience" and erm "what? you pissed off cuz your daddy gets more pussy than you" :nervous: :confused: : ok:

its also clear that you've never thoroughly listened to a great songwriter.

to make things a bit more clear, you're either;

1. a bellend.
2. a bellend.
3. a bellend.

Don't bring that shit to this section.

What the are you doing posting in this board anyway? You don't like the band? Fine. Go somewhere else....or go back to your Oasis thread in the Bad obssesion section.

The melodies on One in a million are genius but i dont think Axl will ever surpass that song.

I like the band :yes: :yes: : ok:

yourself and hilbilly nixon arent very intelligent at all, (blind faith)  :confused: :confused: :nervous: :nervous:

I know my music.  :yes:

to me a good songwriter is when someone tries to express its emotions , feeling, thoughts in a straight honest way that you can easily feel identified or connected or whatever make you feel for that matter... but? not with metaphors and shit like that. that's why I love axl lyrics `cause he writes what on his mind, his heart in a very honest way and you know what he's trying to express.

so for me his music and lyrics are what is called a genious in music  : ok:

No. No, and fuck no.

Great, yes. Genius, no, no, and fuck no.

I would have to say Coma is easily Axl's best moment lyrically. Also, the effects in the song border on genius. The bitches going after him right after that great guitar solo is just....perfect. Then, the "I love you".....Axl's finest moment and in my opinion his only moment of genius. Very talented guy, but Genius...no. I reserve that for people like Dylan, Hendrix, and Miles Davis. CITR is a very crafty/clever song and has really grown on me. I can't wait to actually read accurate lyrics and hear the final version. :beer:

Fuck No.

Axl was a street kid who did an amazing album with a group of guys about getting wasted. Followed by 1 double album with some rockers and ballads on and that was it. The new stuff might be good but not that good.

There has been amazing frontman, some like Axl, he is above some frontmen but not all.

Axl WAS an amazing frontman probably my favourite, but he is not a genius, he's done fuck all for years, get over it. ?: ok:

Yes he is, in my opinion. He's great on so many levels.

Overall?.....Yes, Axl is a genius.

the defnition of genius descibes Bono a hell of alot more than it does Axl :P

As for Axl being a genius. Not really. Not at all actually. He didn't really do alot in the 80's or 90's. ?He's a great frontman and a great vocalist but with the lack of material he's put out since the other members left it makes you wonder who really was the genius/s behind Guns N' Roses. Maybe it was IZZY!

As for the Smiths I never really got them. I love The Cure and maybe that's why :hihi: It seems to go that way alot of the times. I didn't mind some of Morrisey's solo stuff though.

I?m sorry, but if Axl Rose is a genius, then the I guess that word doesn?t count for much...

Music wise, he?s good, way above average. You may say unique, if you want to. A musical genius? No way in hell. There are millions of singers with a better technique, a better ear, more range, and more power than Axl. He?s not the best example of the emotional or sincere singer, either. Lennon, Janis or Ray Charles, to name some, are leagues above him there. You can feel their pain, just listen to Mother by Lennon or Joplin?s version of Work Me Lord, or just about ANYTHING by Ray. The fact that Axl turned a song with such an emotional resonance as KOHD into a catchy, but innocuous rocker (or worst, a reggea :nervous:) speaks volumes.

As a lyricist, he has his moments. But he?s no Dylan, much less a poetic genius. Suck on my serpentine???? GET IN THE RING?????

As a songwriter...Jesus, I can?t believe people say he?s such an incredible songwriter when he have only a couple of songs that were written by him. They?re pretty good, but c?mon...Estranged and NR are interesting pieces, but nothing out of the ordinary in terms of structure. What pushes them above the other songs is, and please don?t kill me, Slash?s solos and counter-melodies, just like some songs written by Slash were improved by Axl. It wasn?t a one-man job. He did/does have a knack for vocal melodies, but Axl is no Lennon/Mccartney, or Harrison for that matter, or Stevie Wonder, or Prince, or Dylan, or Townshend. And I don?t know if I would call any of those people geniuses.  Pieces written by Mozart at age 5 are still widely played to this day. Can they compete with that?

And intellectually... ::) You may say he?s intelligent. For a rock-star. At most. A GENIUS?? or even above average? If you have heard any of his rants, you know he has the maturity of a 13 year old. And not a particulary mature one.

If you call Axl a genius, what are Einstein, Newton, Beethoven, Aristotle, Picasso, Whitehead, Franklin, Voltaire, Chopin, Chuck Norris...?

Besides, his inability to put an album in a decade has been turned by some fans into undeniable proof of greatness, instead of the other way round.




He?s talented, though. :peace:

If you want to call someone a genius who writes music.. Bob Dylan over Axl any day.

I think he's a genius... who quite possibly will be better appreciated after he's long gone (I think there's too much controversy and ill-will surrounding Axl for him to get a fair judgment in his lifetime)...

I've always found it interesting though that in the music textbook (in my Music Appreciation 101 Class- which is almost entirely dedicated to the classical masters) I had at Harvard (not bragging just telling :nervous:) and published in 1999 (hardly the hey-day of GN'R) listed U2 and Guns N' Roses as the two most musically significant bands of the modern era (i.e. 1980-today) and mentioned Axl, Slash and Bono by name specifically. Which of course raises the issue of whether Slash and Bono are geniuses as well... Anyway, I've always considered that high-praise and solid evidence that GN'R's music will most definitely survive beyond our lifetimes... and maybe when Axl's dead, as well as anyone who truly remembers or cares about the controversies that surrounded him, he'll be judged a musical genius... I think that's definitely possible.

he's not a genius,no matter what anyone says :no:

I dunno if I would throw the word genius around...Einstein was a genius, Mozart a genius....Axl is extremely, tremendously musically talented...I wouldn't go as far as genius...just my opinion.   

Morrisey can suck my balls. And he can suck Axl's balls. And I ain't no hillbilly. I am a middle class liberal, drunk at the moimenbt. :peace: : ok:

He's already been long gone for a long time. ?:rofl: the second part is true though. he may neverf get a fair judgement. Alot will always come back to his antics and to be honest his weirdness.

Axl's true talent is his ability to be fragile and cocksure at the same moment....a lot like Lennon in that respect. A very honest artist and that is why people ultimately connect with him...that is why he has a dedicated, devoted fanbase. I am not saying he is Lennon, but he has some of the same characteristics. An ability to connect with people on a very simplistic level. Genius...again, no.? :peace: However, not to stir the pot, but that is what separates him from someone like Scott Weiland. Scott is good but ultimately cannot write some of the gut wrenching lyrics that Axl can. Just my opinion...and to follow up on an earlier post, Coma is a perfect example...as is Estranged. Great guitar melodies are a plus but you have to have the lyrics to really connect with a mass audience.

Quote from: RichardNixon on Today at 06:56:09 AM

 I would go on to say that "Catcher in the Rye" is easily as good as the best offerings from Pink Floyd/Led Zeppelin/the Beatles.

 :peace: Umm.....are u on Drugs dude..thats a huge call and a bad 1..
Anyway is Axl the most Underated genius or the 80s + 90s..Id say when guns hit and were the biggest band in the world he wasent but maybe hes really waisted or how can i put it..hasent achived as much in the last 10 - 12 years as he could have...he hasent put an album out since 93 for fucks sake.. :'(
Dont get me wrong i love Axls music as much as the next fan but he could have put out a few more Albums but i just hope this CD comes out this Year.. :beer:
I really Like BETTER and TWAT more than IRS and CATR..but there all sweet.. : ok:

bono genious? ahahahahahaa  :hihi: yeah..lets write the same album over and over and over again...talentless bastard.

yet axl could only dream of the success anbd respect bono has...

Here we are, almost twenty years after "Appetite For Destruction" was released, and Axl Rose continues to headline the biggest rock festivals on Earth. That's something no one else from Guns N' Roses can say, even Slash and Duff. Along with this, Axl Rose has remained a topic of wonderment for the last ten years, despite doing very little, and is currently being harangued by millions of fans to release another record.


I think there's some genius in there. If there wasn't, why would so many people care..?

genius in what, lying hes ass of to keep fans interested?

... well, you're still interested. Obviously.

If he's such a horrible liar, why are you still here..?

No, Guns N' Roses continues to headline the biggest rock festivals on Earth.


I was interested in Duff's solo albums, Izzy's solo albums and in Velvet Revolver..... until I heard them. ::)

So, you think Guns N' Roses would still headline these festivals without Axl...?? ::)


... I wasn't. And I certainly wouldn't have waited ten years for either Duff, Izzy or Velvet Revolver.

Lyrically, I consider him to be a genius. Few can touch the man when he's on his game with his lyrics.

As for otherwise, genius is way too strong of a word - He's definitely a very smart fellow though. Very well informed, well read, and articulate.

So, you think Axl would still headline these festivals without the Guns N' Roses name...? ::)


Nearly the same amount of people would wait for a Slash album if he wouldn't have done anything since "The Spaghetti Incident".

Once you have had a pinball machine made in your image you no longer qualify as underrated.

I wouldn't say genius......but if you change the question from "genius" to "artist"...then I think the answer is a resounding YES.  Hes not only a bad ass/kick ass hard rocker, but his ballads are so emotional and epic.  I hope when he retires from singing/touring he becomes a producer (I hope for the sake of people he might work with that he learns how to speed things up though heeh).

I'm a firm believer that in order to produce true, quality art, especially in music, you must have some tragic, suffering element to your work - from everything we know and everything that is speculated, Axl seems like a very tortured soul...and music is his outlet of expression for that.

I might have been a bit premature with my conclusion.... BUT if Axl successfully rebuilds one of the greatest hard rock bands ever (where literally every single decision has ultimately been his from square 1) and delivers artistically significant music (and the leaks seem to indicate he's on his way...) that is yet in keeping with the spirit/aura of the original band and revitalizes rock at the age of 44-45.... I think he's a musical genius. His stock will go WAY UP in music history, as well as, popular cultural history...

A lot of big "if's" there though...

I wouldn't go as far as to say Axl is a genius.  Although, from a marketing perspective, he's been pretty smart lately, creating a huge buzz around Guns N' Roses.  This is, of course, if he plans to release some material this time around.  Axl is probably the only person who excites tens of thousands of people when he lifts a finger and does anything.  The potential of one of rock's biggest names performing again is exciting, but only Axl can create such hysteria around almost appearing at a post-Oscar party, for example.  Musically, he's a great songwriter and composer, but I wouldn't put him in the same class as Mozart or Beethoven.  And intellect?  Well, I've never seen the guy complete a math problem or invent a lightbulb.  As well, Axl lets his emothions get the better of him.  Cancelling/leaving shows, taking stage dives, physical assault, and his rants (though I love them) don't really constitute genius behaviour.  On the whole, it may be a little extreme to call Axl a genius.  A hell of a songwriter, crazy wailer, and pretty damn good publicist, but not a genius.

Talented yea but genius no way.  Bob Dylan is a genius, Neil Young, Springsteen but not Axl.  Silence does not equal genius.

one line from the Smiths ruins it all for me as far as song writing capability goes

"And you go home and you cry and you want to die" :puke:

and i have heard more than that song...my friend is the biggest morrisey freak in the whole fucking world..and has everything they guy ahs ever done musically...but that line pisses me off every time i hear it :hihi:

fuck that line sucks :rant: why wouldn't they change that?

and to get back on topic... in the GnR internet community he's certainly not underrated.  :hihi:

w. axl rose is definately a genius. from the first time i heard his voice, his lyrics, the emotion he displays through his music, i knew this guy was unique, and not only that, but the way he has carried himself and his image is impressive, going from the most interesting rock n' roll rebel on the planet to the most interesting mythical rock figure on the planet, while never falling off like 99% of his colleagues. songs like estranged, november rain, coma, sweet child of mine and the heavy hitters like nightrain and jungle, the sheer variety in this man's work and personality is amazing, his voice the same. all these things melted together, along with his obvious proven intelligence, makes axl rose a musical genius, and songs like madagascar, the blues and catcher in the rye merely give us glimpses of what axl's genius is capable of now that he's freed of the 80's hardrock chains of his former bandmates.

Lyrically I think he's definitely up there with the best of them. From reading and watching interviews I think he's also pretty intelligent in general. My Media Literacy teacher said she didn't see Axl as an "intelligent individual" and I wanted to stab her with my pencil  :rant:

aim for the eye

The best way to answer this post is to make this observation:

You have heard hundreds of people refer to the guy as an asshole. Hundreds more say he's completely nuts. You have heard people who have never worked with him be-little his talents,

BUT:

Has anyone EVER heard from someone who has actually spent time working with this man, say anything but that he is either a genius, extremely creative,
or way ahead of his time?   I personally haven't......

Axl's not a genius,sure he can write great music,but that doesn't mean shit when it comes to calling someone a genius

most geniuses are misunderstood.
if anyone's a misunderstood genius, it's axl.

He is talented for sure.
Genius? No.
I reserve that  label for people  who do "real" things (other than write music), like curing diseases or bringing lasting peace  to the mid-east.

You can be exceptionally gifted in many areas, and music is one of them.

excactly.

I'm not sure if Axl is a musical genius, but if he's not he isn't too far off.  It's more than lyrics and melodies, it's the whole composition and the way the lyrics are sung.  The man just knows how to get a feeling across to the listener unlike most other people I have heard, both vocally and by what is said.

The same could be said for Slash when it comes to guitar.  The solos in Estranged are surreal and are his best work IMO.

One point I have to make is some of the posters here quoting lyrics like "turn around bitch I got a use for you", and "get the money motherfucker cuz I got no more patience" in their defense that Axl isn't a genius.  The last one I'm sure was Izzy but no matter.  These lyrics were not written to be anything other than what they are.  To point to them in saying Axl is lacking something that would make him a genius is pretty silly.  There are plenty of other examples that would go the other way.

Yeah, read the lyrics to Locomotive, and tell me they are not deep, and great!

" Gonna find a way to cure this loneliness
Yeah I'll find a way to cure the pain
If I said that you're my friend
And our love would never end
How long before I had your trust again
I opened up the doors when it was cold outside
Hopin' that you'd find your own way in
But how can I protect you
Or try not to neglect you
When you won't take the love I have to give
I bought me an illusion
An I put it on the wall
I let it fill my head with dreams
And I had to have them all
But oh the taste is never so sweet
As what you'd believe it is -
well I guess it never is
It's these prejudiced illusions
that pump the blood
To the heart of the biz

You know I never thought
that it could take so long
You know I never knew how to be strong
Yeah, I let you shape me
But it feels as though you raped me
'Cause you climbed inside my world
And in my songs
So now I've closed the door
to keep the cold outside
Seems somehow I've found the will to live
But how can I forget you
or try not to reject you
When we both know it takes time to forgive

Sweetness is a virtue
and you lost your virtue long ago
You know I'd like to hurt you
but my conscience always tells me no
You could sell your body on the street
to anyone whom you might meet
Who'd love to try and get inside
and bust your innocence open wide

'Cause my baby's got a locomotive
My baby's gone off the track
My baby's got a locomotive
Got ta peel the bitch off my back
I know it looks like I'm insane
Take a closer look I'm not to blame
No

Gonna have some fun with my frustrations
Gonna watch the big screen in my head
I'd rather take a detour
'cause this road ain't gettin' clearer
Your train of thought has cut me off again
Better tame that boy 'cause he's a wild one
Better tame that boy for he's a man
Sweetheart don't make me laugh
you's gettin' too big for your pants
And I's think maybe you should
cut out while you can
You can use your illusion -
Let it take you where it may
We live and learn
and then sometimes it's best to walk away
Me I'm just here hangin' on
It's my only place to stay at least
For now anyway
I've worked too hard for my illusions
Just to throw them all away

I'm taking time quiet consolation
In passing by this love that's passed away
I know it's never easy -
so why should you believe me
When I've always got so many things to say
Calling off the dogs a simple choice is made
'Cause playful hearts
can sometimes be enraged
You know I tried to wake you -
I mean how long could it take you
To open up your eyes and turn the page

Kindness is a treasure -
and it's one towards me you've seldom shown
So I'd say it for a good measure
To all the ones like you I've known
Ya know I'd like to shave your head
And all my friends could paint it red
'Cause love to me's a two way street
An all I really want is peace

But my baby's got a locomotive
My baby's gone off the track
My baby's got a locomotive
Got ta peel the bitch off my back
I know it looks like I'm insane
Take a closer look I'm not to blame
No

Affection is a blessing
Can you find it in your sordid heart
I tried to keep this thing ta-gether
But the tremor tore my pad apart
Yeah I know it's hard to face
When all we've worked for's gone to waste
But you're such a stupid woman
and I'm such a stupid man
But love like time's got its own plans

'Cause my baby's got a locomotive
My baby's gone off the track
My baby's got a locomotive
Got ta peel the bitch off my back
I know it looks like I'm insane
Take a closer look I'm not to blame
Yeah
If love is blind I guess I'll buy myself a cane

Love's so strange... "

That song is purely genius, both lyrically and musically, so both Slash and Axl had a genius moment, and they are both amazing and talented artists, but geniuses?  hmm, well?

Personally, i don't think Axl was underrated at all during GnR's heyday back in the late 80's early 90's.  During that period, i was at my most impressionable as it came to music, followed the band religously, and they received their just do.  All the criticism Axl's received since the mid 90's-present, by print and radio medial alike, has been well earned by nobody but Axl.  Yes, their is musical genius to some of GnR's work, but to say it's all Axl influence is shortsighted.

And to quote Nixon as saying thet CITR is the equal to best from Zeppelin and Floyd is laughable.   I think the greatness of any musician/band's work is how is stands the test of time 5, 10, 20, 30 years after it was originally released.  Zeppelin, Floyd are both played more on the rock station I listen to than GnR, and when GnR is played, it's mainly from AFD. 

People on this board may think CITR/Better/TWAT, et all are the greatest thing since sliced bread, but only time will tell how it's viewed from music fans that don't live, breath, and fie by anything GnR.

Axl's songs are poetry Im enclined to say more than a standard, generic songs.

Look at the lyrics to Better....

That is utter brilliance...

Only Axl can come up with those kinda metaphors :hihi:

Yeah like it's not hard to imagine that Axl was praised as an unparalleled lyricist back in the late 80s, for his lyrics on AFD.  :hihi:


Neemo, that's bloody out of context. Obviously I shan't go on about the smith, as here is not bad obsession but I just have to point this out.

"There's a club, if you'd like to go
  you could meet somebody who really loves you
  so you go, and you stand on your own
  and you leave on your own
  and you go home, and you cry
  and you want to die"

Hey it's nice to know some GNR fans are open-minded.

Outwardly speaking they are poles apart in character, Axls lyrics are bright, straight and extrovert and Mozs are introvert, twisted and dark. However it appars that uncle Morrissey is not any less unmanageable than Axl. Merck must have a pretty tough stomach.

They both have respective genius for writing lyrics (mmm up to UYI, Moz in the smiths ≧  Axl. firstly Morrissey's words are much easier to catch. that said, Morrissey is in a league of his own as mentioned and no way his lyrics would fit for the GNR tunes.) and vocal tunes, for singing (Axl > Moz Axl got many voices and that on IRS is untouchable), and  for attracting the people who they don't even know (Axl > Moz).

Still I wouldn't call them musical geniuses. Basically I don't look for a genius/ prodigy /god in pop/rock music but something more human. Mozart or Renoir would bore so many Wagner fans or Gogh's to death.