Here Today... Gone To Hell!

... seems to be in the wild. Since some mod will surely post "NO LINKS," erm... no links.

gunsguy claims to have it but wont share  :'(

I doubt he has anything.

He's not the only one claiming to have it, unless he has some other usernames and is on some non-GNR forums.

If they have it and are not sharing then I doubt they have anything. Maybe they want to feel special about something in their pathetic life.

I finally got my computer back with working speakers and now the leaks have expired, damn it! :rant:

They're on my girls computer, but how lame is it to ask her to bring her laptop with her when she comes over? I definitely wouldn't be getting any :no:

What's the appeal of having these instrumentals again?

Are you all having karaoke parties this weekend or something?

Honestly an IRS instrumental isn't all that exciting to me. Whoever this guy is who claims to have it ....well......who cares, we already have the one with Axl on it.

You hear more the guitars and synth, you pick up on stuff that you dont hear when the songs have vocals

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but I think the reason behind the instrumentals is to showcase the bands talents.
When CD comes out, people are primarily gonna be listening to what Axl sounds like, the music will always be second.
And Axl has repeatedly mentioned the how good the new band really is.

Side note, he may have gotten that idea from Maynard Keenan who draws as much attention as Axl when it comes to his band(s). Maynard has mentioned that he wants people to HEAR the band, not just his lyrics/voice.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

The guy is a fraud. He wont share, and has ignored several different people that have sent him PMs. There's no reason to hoard an instrumental of a song we have already heard. It has no trade value.

I'd like to have it to edit out the oooooohhhhhhhhhhh parts in the beginning

Maybe :hihi:

Why would you lie about having an I.R.S. instrumental ... who really cares?  It'd be nice to have, I guess, but it's not really worth lying about, I can't imagine that people are going to go absolutely nuts over a track they already have, minus vocals.

Why not say you have another track (a.k.a. Prostitute, The General ...), seems like that would get tons more attention ...

Lmao, that sad dude..... :rofl:

Well, maybe you're right, but if you don't automatically pay atention to the instrumental part of these songs, you have to be deaf. For example, in TWAT, I'm most hypnotized by guitars than by Axl's voice/lyrics.

But you're right in one thing: I would love an instrumental version of TWAT and CITR. The three of them might have amazing instrumental things that we're not able to hear because of Axl's voice. I want to listen carefully to solos in CITR and drumming in TWAT.

I wish Axl give more time to guitar solos in the upcoming concerts. Finck is a great guitarist but he had not enough time to do his own solos in 2002. Buckethead had but, even when I love him, I am sick of his ''Pirates Of The Caribben'' and bullshit solos.

uh, keep your personal life out of this thread?
no one cares :confused: :nervous:

I think the instrumentals are so Axl can go to the strip clubs and be like, Hey baby.  Let me sing you a song.   Ohhhh sweeet stripper o' mine.  He gets up on tables doing the snake dance.  He wasn't he singing along in a van outside the roxy, maybe that was an instrumental I doubt it though.


I care. 

I like the Better instrumental alot. I agree, having the vocal version trumps it by a long shot but it is still pretty cool to hear the instrumental as well.

Theres an irs instrumental.......?    Boy id like to hear that..... *cough cough*

Dont hold your breath while trying to cough. :hihi:

That IRS instrumental leak was bullshit. It was some guy wanting attention. You might want to delete your request for a link. Or maybe not. I dont know if Jarmo bans people for requesting fake leaks. :rofl: :rofl:

Flattery will get you nowhere ?:rofl:

I don't have it anyway.

Irs instrumental trade value?  :rofl:

Take your pick for the trade: a 9 second clip of CITR or a fake 14 second clip of Seven. :rofl:

sounds really good. i like it A LOT  :o.

It says "Track #2".

I love the instrumentals.

I made a track about this yesterday... so did that gunsguy really have it? Or did it leak out from somewhere else.

I'll have it in a minute...

EDIT: I made a THREAD about it yesterday... THREAD... stupid brain :P Work damn you!

EDIT 2: Sounds good - I like this much better than the Better instrumental, 'cause I'm hearing a lot more new shit in here than I did in that one... little things I never picked up before.

Final mix of this is gonna own.

It's pretty good. I didn't like the lyrics much anyhow. Not the badass rocker it was made out to be.

actually, yeah he did. he "sent" it to me.

Is it me, or is this rip sounding clearer than the one with vocals? Are they at different bitrates or something? It seems much crisper...

so Better instrumental and IRS instrumental... is anyone as curious as I am to hear the TWAT instrumental?

curious, to say the least

Trunk CD, have we met?

looks like the source for these songs is almost definetly the trunk cd.but didnt they say there was only 3 songs and 3 instrumentals.but we have 4 songs leaked so where did the fourth song come from

there were rumors of an unauthorized internal leak; perhaps someone who worked on the album before axl was booted from the label's studio.

These specific rips are NOT from the Trunk CD.  Eddie Trunk himself confirmed Better was not on the disc he received.

-darknemus

Even if you rule out Better, there are still 3 full tracks that could have originated from Trunk. Additionally, the explanation given by Trunk was not very convincing, too many I think's. It is possible he was mistaken.

Care to explain why these rips are not from the Trunk CD?

yeah,i wasnt convinced either

These ARE NOT FORM THE TRUNK CD FOLKS!  Tey are of "different" origin, yes its true I leaked this latest one, IRS instrumental

as for TWAT, soon IS THE WORD, if you don't believe me again, I can't tell you otherwise....

you guys diggin the new shit or what?


gunsguy

the original had prostitute, not better.

my PURE SPECULATION is that the original sources for both leaks might have been similar (if not the same person)...

basically, the same person "re-leaked" the songs now for whatever reason (to put pressure on axl?)

HOWEVER

instead of prostitute, they put better on the CD (along with the instrumentals, which they did for the Trunk CD).

evidence to support this is that IRS is the same version that was from TRunk's cd... what are the odds the SAME cut would be used in two different leaks? ALSO- it explains why Better is the most "complete" sounding song. It is the most recent song because it was added to replace Prostitute (for whatever reason-- remember prostitute was also a similar rocker/shredder song). TWAT, under this theory, is also the same version from a few years ago on trunk's cd, which is why it too sounds half-complete. It also means that this person has access to new recordings (possibly indicating someone from the studio... but why would they want to pressure axl? someone from Universal is my leading choice for the 'source').



anyway, hope that makes some sense... there are still some blanks in the theory obviously, and i'm a little drunk... but i think it makes the most sense so far... i don't think merck and axl are behind it because they are legitimately concerned about more songs being leaked it seems...

why why why why why why why

i fail to understand why just one person can answer that question. If it's inside information, then why bother posting that you know something here.

If it's not trunk, tell us why.

Because I aquired it not from trunk, my sources will never be reveiled, however I can tell you they are NOT FROM TRUNK, you must believe this, you have to understand that this is delicate, and timed to perfection


Gunsguy

Are you saying not from Trunk himself or not from the Trunk CD, as it is referred to now?

btw, thanks for finally saying something about it. Some people here come in and out and leave cryptic comments that we could all do without.

it seems like he's saying both  :)

I like the underlying synth and the acoustic guitar.

Thanks for this.

Are there any other new songs out there besides instrumentals of what we already have?

Therein lies the Million Dollar question...What is this mysterious second source?

It is neither from the trunk CD  nor from the trunk himself, if I told you I would have to kill you

I see lawsuits are trying to start...  LOL


Gunsguy

P.S> YES there are newier songs that you have not heard, "Soon" is the word folks!

The intrigue escalates!

Cool - thanks for the info.

Awesome news!  Tell your source thanks for me.  :beer:

uhhhh, dude, the instrumental is real... so is the 9 second clip of CITR...

I'm confused

If, by some chance, the source of the Trunk CD leak is identical to the source of the newer leaks, why intentionally remove Prostitute and replace it with Better?  I would imagine the Trunk CD, including prostitute, would have been presented, followed by Better...I don't see the logic in substituting a song

I was joking. :confused:

Of course I know CITR is real.

i think management was really worried about prostitute... so not releasing it again might have been a concession made to management, an attempt to not REALLY piss them off. hence, replace prostitute with a similar song that won't anger axl/merck AS much...

just my thoughts.

Anybody notice the difference in quality on the instrumental   ;)


 :hihi:  Puppets I tell yuh.......

its mp4

errr now its mp3

C'mon guys.  Promotion wheels are a spinnin away.  CITR was placed into a board member's hands by none other than Sanctuary.


Do you really believe that German girl story??


We'll get TWAT instrumental next...........then when we think the leaks have finished...........

BAM!!!!!  Another new song is eh-hmm...........leaked?!?

If we follow through with your theory, it could be entirely possible that Prostitute was/is being slated as the lead off single, hence 
the guarded attitude.  The  point of dissension I have with this is that, if anything, I would imagine TWAT being held in that regard, considering it's long been thought of as one of the "big guns" and is obviously a very personal song to Axl, which is not to say that Prostitute isn't.

i dont want a link or a discussion concerning an IRS Instrumental. La la la la la la la la la la.....................

do I pass the test?????

There were rumors of an unauthorized internal leak. I guess I would not be out of line saying that this rumor was looking closer to becoming fact.

Who says that Sanctuary gave CITR to a board member? ?How do you know this is true? ?I'm off topic, and I'm a mod... :-[
but I'm curious. ?

On topic...haven't heard any of the instrumentals. ? :-\

your full of shit.... you didnt leak anything.. stop trying to take credit for something you didnt have jack squat to do with...

even tho its an instrumental we still cant post links to it????

Nope.  No links.   :)

The board member will be more than happy to share his story once the "leak drama" is over and Chinese Democracy drops.


There is a plan to get this cd talked about prior to its release and it has worked wonders so far. ?Rolling Stones even wrote about the demos.


The GNR VR fued will also work wonders.


There's some definate talent in Sanctuary as far as I'm concerned.


Gunsguy is probably another Sanctuary contact. ?I'm guessing each contact has no idea who the other one is.

I'm skeptical of all these leak theories. 

Havent you learned your lesson, why call him names when he might actually be a leaker, yeah real smart give the guy a reason to hold the tracks back. People like you never learn. Just shut up and if you think he is full of shit, keep it to yourself, people like you are the reason that it took IRS so long to come out with the clean version

gunsguy knows as much as me. only track left is TWAT instrumental. he does not have anything else nor will anything else get leaked.

Let it be shown ;D

if true, I really believe it fuels the Trunk CD theory. Another full unheard track would of course supprt gunsguy.

No one really thinks Trunk was a source, the idea is, your source could very well be the SAME as Trunk/Piazza's source.

Aka, the shit that went to Trunk came from the same place you got yours. Which means there is ONE source. Unless you can say different.

Again, if there is one source, why did the individual choose to replace prostitute with better, unless better was mislabelled?

Not this again... discussed to death.

could better be prostitute?  :P

He said 3 songs in addition to IRS, and that he couldn't remember exactly what the other songs were. He also didn't know the names of the other songs.

Better was from a diff source and so was citr. Better is much further along than IRS and TWAT and CITR is from cassette not cd.

I don't know. Where did this mislabeled track theory come from?

Has anyone considered that this leak did not occur until AFTER Axl said the track name in the press? Maybe someone had the track for a while and simply wasn't sure of the name until Axl said it in the Rolling Stone interview?

meaning possibly TWAT, CITR, Better....plus instrumentals

We don't know who compiled the leaks or how. You're making some assumptions. Someone could have compiled the CD in various ways - some guy in the studio gets a few tracks here, a few tracks there, THEN puts them together.

Just because they have different quality doesn't mean there's a diff. source.

if it was a burned CD, then they don't have to be from the same sessions.

Possibly. A new track with vocals would mean there's two sources. As it stands now, it could be one or two (or theoretically more, but that's unlikely).

Bullshit. He knows it but probably GNR management threatened him with legal action if he does speaks or reveals other songs

Prostitute is not better. Buckmaster said prostitute was like fire and ice and had a lot of orcharstion on it.

i wanna kill a rumour thats been going around, management and axl had nothing to do with the leaks. These songs are pretty old and someone had them and decided to share them.

I don't know if you are against listening to the instrumentals, but if you wanna get a good feel to how cool this band really sounds, check out Better.
As awesome as Axl sounds, IMO the band sounds just as good.

Hopefully no one subscribes to that theory anymore. I did hear a rumor about an unauthorized internal leak which is a bit different from axl and management.

Thanks for reminding me of that..slays my little theory : ok:

Like I said the songs are from different sources, you just agreed with me

I think she means the initial source got the material from different people at different times, but there is only one leaker allegedly, not multiple ones with the same source disc.

Im not talking about the leaker, I am talking about the songs came from different people but maybe only one got them all and is now leaking them. My point is, all these leaks didnt come from the trunk cd, they prob came from three different sources and this one person got them all together.

My theory is someone had IRS, and TWAT back in 2004 and sat on them, then got Better and CITR, then leaked them all at the same time

I dunno dave. There really isn't any hard evidence that suports that right now.  the fact that instrumental tracks are leaking implies to me that the Trunk CD is a very good possibility. If another finished track leaks, then Trunk is ruled out once and for all. Trunk's alleged dismissal of Better has not convinced me.  He could be mistaken

I thought trunk only had 3 songs? Did he have 4?

He said IRS plus 3 songs.

Oh then maybe u are right

I would say at this point that it's pretty safe to assume that we got the cd 5 years later and that aside from maybe another instrumental the well has run dry.  All up to Axl now.

It is quite probable that whoever gave that cd to Mike Piazza (who then gave it to Trunk) gave a copy of it to others as well, including the current leaker. Maybe that person themself is the current leaker. The presence of 3 or 4 songs, including IRS and including instrumentals is too much of a coincidence to ignore.

However, it also seems probable that Catcher in the Rye (and probably Better) are from a different source.

A typical day in the world of GN'R. The case never gets solved, but with each new piece of information just gets more and more confusing!

There is a link in the Better instrumental thread in which he is quoted. I'll look it up.

I wish my AIM was working tonight. :(

Ok here is what he said on 9/1/03; it does say 3 songs plus 3 instrumentals, so I stand corrected.


I did read a quote where he said IRS plus three others. There is a bit of ambiguity here. So Dave your theory is still alive!!!

Also he said this about the songs on the disc


Doesn't sound like he had many listens.


My instinct was that CITR was from a different source, because of age, quality (finished drums), and the tape skip. My money would be on a second leaker  for this track. But unless someone can definatively prove that two tracks could not have come from the Trunk CD, it is still a possiblity in my mind.

why is the IRS(instrumental) leak listed as track 02?
 the original leaks of IRS and BETTER were listed as tracks 01, & 02 respectivlely

same CD, track names changed,

maybe

one of the tracks was even labeled track 8.

Multiple sources is a possiblity. The instrumental leaks though keep the odds on Trunk relatively high.

which one was labeled track 8?
the only other one I have with a track # is the 6:43 TWAT listed as 03. which is intersting too, where does the 6 minute version of TWAT fit on 6 song CD, not to mention CITR

no ones ever gonna figure it out where they came from....... dead horse

probaly true about the source, but dead horse already?

I admit the instrumentals are not very exiting

but I just got this file like a half hour ago

Dude, you guys..

Its easy to change the track number on disks.. =/.

I'm interested to hear from darknemus why he doesn't believe this is the Trunk CD.

of couse it is easy to change them, most have been
I am looking at 11 files ( all the leaks , different lengths included - ex. better, citr)
only 4 have track numbers, so,? the other 7 were in fact changed
 but, were the track numbers also changed on the 4 that include them, as in changed to fales track numbers
and why.....
some have to be , for this to be one CD
01 IRS
02 Better
03 TWAT
02 IRS Instrumental

most of the others tracks have  a track # 0 imbedded in the properties also, this has to be a deliberate manipulation, does it not?,
 nothing you rip is going to come up as track 0, unless you edit it as such

the ones with track numbers match the properties

feel like a private eye looking for clues,

we will most likely never know the truth though

my better instrumental is listed as track 8.

mine is real player m4a ( like the original twat leak)

now check this, it does not seem to have been renamed the title is this - 02_-_Track_2

either manipulated completly on purpose, or directly of the CD as track 2


edit : oops, this is the IRS instrumantal I was talking about

B/c Trunk has already said Better was not on the CD he obtained...

Anyway, about this instrumental...

Its actually good to hear it because it sounds quite ordinary.

Axls vocals on this track make it what it is, they are outstanding. The instrumental makes you appreciate just how good they are and how much work he has put into his singing.

It will probably be a really difficult song to sing live though.

Oh, I guess it's your old friend "raoxsle" AKA "Holy War" in Utah who works for Sanctuary...? ::)




/jarmo

Just what I was thinking, it's the same thing with Better.

I have this vaque memory of someone (dizzy?) from the band saying that "we come up with the music and when Axl sings it becomes magical" or something like that

Yeah Axl said that all the music is done first and that he won't write any lyrics till he feels the music has been pushed to its limits and is great.

Well you know guys, I'd like to know where all this music comes from... Always kinda like instrumentals, but

As long as there is something new to download every few days, I'll leave the people leaking the fuck alone, just do your job boys and make big daddy jimb0 proud.

i agree with dizzy on that...

but it sounds great even without axl i think..  better is HEAVY     and the part before the finck solo in better is insanely good in the instrumental!!


and well.... keep the instrumentals coming!!!

 :hihi:

Nope.

I have no idea where that mormon went.

accually i am  : ok:

Well, funny considering a few days ago you claimed he worked for Sanctuary....

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=27306.msg495816#msg495816



/jarmo

Yeah, I knew that was coming.  I thought about posting it myself.  That's okay though, you got your littler "neener-neener" in.

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't.  Maybe he knew someone in Sanctuary or somebody used to answer the phone whenever he called like with mysteron and madison.  If mysteron were to post some info that never came about..........the past 3 years would be shot for him credibility wise.

mysteron was gearing up the street team action years ago and that faded away.  Why?  Probably because Axl backed away from his intended plans.  If you remember he talked about wrapping it up in mid-2002.

I believe raoxsle's info was good until the end.  Maybe they cut him off.  Does it really matter anyway??  It's my opinion.

Why don't you link my post trying to calm everybody down in the Axl vs. Scott thread where I pointed out how this fued will fuel the fires of creativity.

I think we should hire a detective.

Sounds good. You can pay attention to the solo a bit more  : ok:

already discussed. We weren't 100 percent convinced.

I wasnt here when that trunk cd appears etc; but one thing i can tell better is from the same mixdown,record time or mp3 rip cuz it lacks exactly like twat ,irs in overheads department maybe im wrong but...  :yes:  :yes:  :yes:

What was the date of the 1st IRS leak last year?  The rough :55 second clip?

april 1st?

Was it April 1 2005; can anyone confirm? 

I remember that; i think it was April 1st.

There was a 50 page thread before we got confirmation.

do you guys really think figuring out all of this is gonna lead to something else?? haha

No, but it is fun to speculate. No harm there.

I'm gunna guess that the well has gone dry now regarding new leaks.

Havent heard this one yet. Kinda lonely , if anyone wants to chat with me send me a PM , umm yeah.  ;)

Yeah it was april first because I thought it was an April fools joke. HTGTH was down at the time so I had to get it from Mygnr

Very interesting.  Who is this guy (in this thread) who claimed to leak the songs?  I noticed he joined last April : ok:

No, he said 3 songs total.

And he said Better was not there.

So why believe one and not the other?

Oh, yeah, right...the whole fantasy thing.

Better is from a different source.  Trunk has said it wasn't on the CD.  Those that "aren't convinced" have absolutely no evidence to support their theory. 

'Nuff said.

wow it sounds exactly the same except it doesn't have vocals,big fuckin' deal

Pilfrek, I really don't mean to ride on you, but I think you've looked at the Splat interview, where they asked a leading question (what did you think of the other two songs on the CD was basically what Splat asked).

But read Trunk's ORIGINAL statement from years ago, which is this:

"The rest of the CD was also cool. It sounded like a total of 3 songs, with instrumental versions of each of the 3, making a total of 6 tracks (I think)."

The REST of the CD. And, "I think." Even at the time, Trunk wasn't sure. The guy listened to it in his car.

"There were other tracks and music on the CD as well, but I only had a chance to listen to them on the ride home. "

"The last track, which I did not play, was the best. A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead. I don't know what the title was..."

I'm not trusting Trunk's memory on this. So far, all the leaks have followed a pattern. And rumor is only instrumentals are left...

I did emend my statement if you refer to my next post.

As far as Better, I can see your point and it is floating around my grey matter. But as a pragmatist, I keep the option open b/c as far as we know, this is the only confirmed leak that exists. The presence of instrumental tracks tends to support that this is Trunk. However, as you say, Trunk denied it and there is one too many full tracks to fit on a six song disc.  We'll see. If anyother full track pops up, I think we can bury Trunk.

*sigh* this woula been great last night while we were all taking turns doing kareoke versions of "better" .. damn it.

next friday i guess.  : ok:

1) He said there was a total of 6 tracks. ?Total means total. You're interpreting, instead of reading, to try to make it fit into your "theory". ?Not IRS + 3 +3. ?3 tracks and 3 insturmentals, TOTAL. ?Again, email him yourself to confirm (which, of course, you won't do).

2) I've read the splat interview. ?They asked for specifics. ?He basically said he was fuzzy on the details. ?You can be fuzzy on details and still remember "big picture" stuff. ?In addition, knowing he had Better in his possession when he was asked the question, I also would have to think it might've jogged his memory a bit. ?I don't know. ?Why don't you contact him and ask him (which, of course, you won't do).

2) You can fantasize and believe whatever you want. ?The fact is, one of only 2 people we know to have heard the CD said Better was not on it. ?Categorically, absoltuely said "No, it wasn't" ?That's evidence. ?Your evidence is a conspiracy theory/fantasy, with no supporting evidence. ? Again, you can believe what you want. ?But realize you can't make the claim you're right without a scrap of evidence, nor should, when people say it wasn't there, you tell them they're wrong. ?They have proof. ?You have nothing. ?Simple as that. ?

1) There are other confirmed leaks.  Axl playing in clubs, etc.

2) All the presence of instrumental tracks supports, since all the tracks on the Trunk CD had 'em, is that Axl likes to have both versions created and mixed for his "review", or whatever.  It says nothing about the "source", at all.

We don't kow that anyone was able to record those tracks that he supposedly played in the clubs. I agree with you that it is a possible source but we do know that Trunk had instrumentals.

I don't think Axl previewed the instrumentals at clubs. Also, I don't think Trunk's CD had 5 tracks with vocals (2 TWATs, Better, IRS, CITR).

I posted his exact words - take them as you see fit. His own comments were pretty telling - "The REST of the CD" and "I think."


I don't have his e-mail. Nor do I really need to contact him. You claim he told you Better wasn't on it. I've never called you a lair, I've just said I don't trust the guy's memory.

EDIT: I've found his contact form, we'll see if he replies.

I won't bother replying to your last flame. If you can't keep it civil...

Has it been confirmed that the short TWAT wasn't some fan-made hack-job?

No one ever confirmed those were recorded. And why would Axl play an instrumental track at a club? That seeps highly unlikely.

How do you know the tracks were for Axl? We've all been running on this assumption but there's a chance these could have been for someone doing mixing or some other work on them.

Do you see Axl going to a club, saying "check out my new songs," and then playing instrumental tracks? And why would he be playing demos that are years old.

Someone who helped leak the instrumental track has already said these tracks are years old and that there's no other vocal tracks. I'm tending to believe them more of any of these conspiracy theories or the fluke chance that someone recorded both an instrumental and a full version of better from a nightclub.

This is the first I heard this. At what point in the song was the hack done?

I have no idea, I'm just asking if anyone's really looked at it or not. I think most people just took the long one (as I did) since they came out so close together.

I think the shorter version leaked first... if that's the case only the leaker could have tampered with it.

Read them.? Don't interepret them.? Read them.? His words are pretty clear.? 6 total tracks.

So, he was right back then, but not now?? Is he credible then, but not now? Either you believe him or you don't.? He heard it, you didn't.? He said it wasn't there. You have no earthy idea.? You have no proof.? You have a conspiracy theory. 'Nuff said.


You don't trust his memory, but what he said in interviews 3 years ago (right after) and 1 year ago (2 years after the fact) are gospel??

Hypocrisy...it's what's for dinner.

It wasn't there.?

As for "responding to my final flame":

a) it wasn't a flame.

b) it's the truth.

c) I'm not surprised you won't respond to it given, really, you have no credible response.  It's all true.  You have no proof, whatsoever.

You have no supporting evidence for your "theory".? Nothing, nada, zilch.? You have someone, firsthand, who gives you a definitve answer, and you choose to ignore it.? That's fantasy, plain and simple.?

But someone HAS confirmed that Better was not on the Trunk CD....

So what are other likely sources?? There's a ton of them...the club suggestion was simply an example.? I don't know where Better came from...any suggestion is speculation.? I only know where it DIDN'T come from.

As for playing an instrumental track at a club....he wouldn't have to.? Someone would only have to rip the CD he brought, which DID have instrumentals, to disc or mp3.? Easy as pie.? But again, I'm speculating.? For all I know Buckethead leaked them because his last paycheck bounced.... (note sarcasm).? My point is that the Trunk CD is not the only possible source.? It's the only leak we have copious amounts of public information about.? That doesn't mean, by a long shot, it's the only leak.? We also know there have been other opportunites for the leak to occur.? And if we know of SOME.....

And, if someone sent Piazza a CD 3 years ago, why would it be so hard to believe that someone sent another, different CD to someone else, someone who leaked that CD, more recently?  Again, speculation of course.  Just offering up other possibilities since we know it didn't come from the Trunk CD.

And, when the person who had that CD in their possession categorically denies something is there....that's about as definitive an answer as one is likely to get.


What other possible use could they have but to aid in the musical arrangement and mixing of tracks?? And, given what we know, and other band members have said, that's what Axl's been working on.? And lets face it...no one would create mixed instrumental tracks of GnR's material without Axl's say so and input.? That would be ludicrous.?

I've said my peace on what I think of that "confirmation."

I'll wait (with less than baited breath) to see if Trunk gets back to me. And again- we're basing a lot on the memory of a guy who listened to the CD on the way home from the station in his car three years ago.

What's your source for saying that the CD he brought to the club had instrumentals? I don't recall seeing this in the press anywhere... I only remember the interview with the club owner saying Axl sounded good.


Axl is doing the mixing? As I said, someone could be mixing, or it could be someone doing some accompaniment. People need source material to work with. I never claimed anyone made anything without Axl's permission. Nothing in my post indicated that, I have no idea where you get that idea from.

Considering the previous history of the leaks and the great trade summit that amounted to nothing on these boards, that would not surprise me.

And we've rehased, over and over, the relevance of? your opinion on the matter, as well.


Eddie is usually pretty good about getting back to people via email.? That being said....I'm not sure he likes being pestered on a subject he's already broached, so...we'll see.

His memory of something he actually heard vs well...nothing credible from your side and I'll take his memory every day of the week and twice on Sunday.? I mean, for Gods sake, the guy listens to music for a living. 

As for what the club CD contained, as I said, speculation.? But no more unfounded than yours.? I'm simply pointing out possibilites and would certainly take any concrete, relevant information to heart if it disproved that speculation....For example, if the club owner cared to say there were no instrumentals on the CD they played.


I'm relatively sure Axl is doing the mixing..maybe not alone, but doing it.? Didn't Tommy and Dizzy, at seperate times in seperate interviews say as much?? I'll have to recheck.

True, people need source material to work with.? But they're working, essentially, for Axl (and the band).? So, while it might not be DIRECTLY for Axl to work on, it's "for Axl" in the sense that he's the one who authorized it for some purpuse he has...whether he's doing the work directly or not.? And again, I'm relatively sure he would review the mixes of any source material before it was sent to anyone else.? And, if he authorizes the creation of instrumental versions of the songs, obviously he likes to have them, for whatever purpose he deems necessary.

And you know what I think of yours.

So drop it. You have your opinion, I have mine. Your opinion is no more relevant than mine. So don't expect me to agree with your "100% confirmation" without better proof.


These leaks have followed the exact layout of the CD that was leaked out before, potentially. Instrumentals and vocal tracks, and no more than the maximum possible (not confirmed, but possible) number of tracks on that CD. One person who I believe IS in contact with the SOURCE said there's no further new non-instrumental tracks available.

Trunk confirmed something to you, but we've never seen a quote from you, just an ask Jarmo. Why? What's in his quote that you can't post it on here?

When I see a quote from Trunk that says "I am certain beyond a resonable doubt that this was not on the CD", or one that states the number of tracks without Trunk saying "I think", I'll rule out the possibility.

But there are NO public comments that rule it out yet, regardless of your opinion, or a private conversation that you refuse to share or even paraphrase.

As for what the CD contained, as I said, speculation.  But no more unfounded than yours.


Key word - not alone. Axl is not in the studio at all times. Do you think he personally oversees everyone's work? And you didn't even answer the question of where you heard instrumental tracks were played at clubs.

:rofl: :rofl: That is so funny. Funny but true. We go all these years with nothing, and then a leak happens, and all of a sudden all these different factions acted like they were sitting on a pile of demos. Unfuckingbelievable. It could only happen in the GNR world.

Regardless of how you interpret the "rest of the CD" comment - him saying "I think" is like the fine print on a contract.


I believe what he has said over time gets less and less reliable as more time passes. Does that not seem rational to you?


You don't trust his memory, but what he said in interviews 3 years ago (right after) and 1 year ago (2 years after the fact) are gospel??

Hypocrisy...it's what's for dinner.

It wasn't there.? ?

Refer to what I said earlier. The later it gets, the less trustworthy his memory is. He was saying "I think" from day one.

When the best you can say is "nana you live in a fantasy land" - that's a flame. I'm not responding to it because it isn't worth my time. It's schoolyard childishness.

If Trunk replies to me, I will be upfront with that info. There won't be any "e-mail Jarmo". I've asked him to clarify both the tracks issue, the better issue, or if he's 100% sure or not.

The fact is, Eddie Trunk has consistently been inconsistent in every statement he's made publically on the issue. And yeah, that's a silly statement to make. But you see my point. He has said "I think" and that his memory is foggy in both main interviews he did on the subject. He said right from day one he only got a quick listen in the car. Unless you wish to post/paraphrase what he said - I've asked you this already and you declined - or we get further word, OR another track leaks, there's absolutely no reason there isn't one single source. Unless you have more info. You still haven't answered where you got the idea instrumentals were played at that club from, unless I missed it.

I'm going to drop this until I hear from Trunk or enough time passes that I can safely assume he can't be arsed to reply.

axl was spotted with two cds by the club manager in new york, each cd contained 10 tracks..... so it`s possible that one cd was just instrumentals....

I don't think it's fan made...

yeah... if i remember correctly the ending is different to the long version...  i should give it a listen again.

Its not fan made. The short outro is finck, the longer one is BH

This sounds so cool , shame I missed out !!!!!

What the poster was implying was that someone might have just edited out Buckethead's solo and that's what we received as the "shorter version".

Again, we've covered how relevant your opinion on the subject is. I have proof, you have zippo. Nothing. Nada.? So, in essence, it is more relevant.


The leaks following the same pattern is cirucumstantial, at best.? It's not even anything one could loosely called "proof".? All it proves is material exists in the same format. So what?? Again, you find THAT more compelling than the words of somoeone who actually heard the CD?? Again, conspiracty theory over proof.

I have given you his quote: "No, it wasn't".? What I won't provide is the text of my email, or the email itself, because it contains personal information that I dont wish to share with the forums.? Therefore, I sent the email to two people I trust for verification: jarmo and madison.? You can confirm with them, since I think everyone would agree they're trustworthy intermediaries.


You have seen the quote.? What you want is a more verbose version of it because you wish to stubbornly cling to your fantasy.?

When someone you're talking to asks you a question, and you were certain of the answer, how would you respond?? I'd bet "No, it wasn't" would be a hell of a lot more likely (and reasonable) than "I am certain beyond a reasonable doubt blah blah blah blah".? Who the fuck talks like that in everyday conversation??

I did share what he said, verbatim.? So, you have a quote from an email who's authenticity has been verified by 2 different, trustworthy, moderators.? Vs what have you provided again? Ah yes...nothing.

And I have both shared the quote and paraphrased it.? Read my posts again.



What possible point do you have that Axl is not working alone.?Or proof, for that matter??You're speculating, as am I. I said the instrumentals were for Axl. Directly or indirectly, they are.? And I think any reasonable person knows he would have to authorize them to be created...thus, again, "for Axl" (as in, at his direction) and thus he must "like having them" else he would have not directed anyone to create them.

And I did answer your question.? Again, you just didn't read it.

Question to Pilferk, Kyrie, and a few others: Why do you keep saying the exact same thing? You dont even variate from your script. When responding to one another, why dont you just quote one of your previous posts as your response?





Not meaning this as an insult. Its just an observation after reading the past few pages of this thread.

I'll try to lay this out as succintly as possible without blowing anyone's cover. 

A. The Trunk disc had IRS, Prostitute, and one other track + Instrumental versions of all 3.  (I don't know the title of the other track, except that is was NOT "Better"

B. Trunk isn't the only one that received the disc, apparently.  He's just the only one who had a clue what he had.

C. The recent leaks (excluding CITR, I'll get to that in a minute) came from the disc that Wes had and provided those rips to Saint_Seiya, amongst other people.  Wes's story is that the disc came from a stripper.  However, with further prodding, he also claimed that his cousin had the disc as well as someone that owns a music store.  (I'm guessing in Michigan, where Wes is from)

D. CITR appears to have been from yet ANOTHER source.  No idea if its from a CD or Tape, but the initial hiss present at least suggests Analog tape. 

Now, my PURE SPECULATION on this stuff is that its been "in the wild" for a while.  We just haven't been the beneficiaries of it as we haven't been running in those circles.  I've heard alot of talk of studio guys and the like trading tapes / CDs back & forth for years now.  I'm honestly surprised its taken so long to trickle down to us.

Please remember, as with everything in GNR world.  For everything we know, there's always 8,000% more that we don't.  You always need to keep that in mind when trying to hash this stuff out.  All we can do is take the info we have and formulate theories based upon it.  There's no guarantee we're correct - and I doubt you're going to get Merck to come out and say "Yes, Prostitute was on the trunk CD"

-darknemus

Regardless of how you interpret the "I think" comments, he has consistently said 6 tracks. ?And has also now said Better wasn't there. ?It's amusing you'll take one set of words, semantically disect them to interpret what doesn't really need interpretation, but won't believe a categoric statement from the man.


Not really, no. ?We're not talking 30 years, here. ?It seems like a convenient excuse to cling to your "theory".

It seems rational to believe an eyewitness over someone with a conspiracy theory that has no evidence to support it.

It seems rational to me that someone who heard the CD, and was able to compare it to the current leak, would suddenly be much clearer on, at the very least ,the details of the contents of the CD. ?And even that's assuming he wasn't clear to begin with.

You're assertion that a guy who lives the life of a DJ, playing, listening, and learning about music (because Trunk is pretty much the "uber-DJ" in the radio world), ?day after day, can't remember if a song is contained on a CD that was a pretty high profile (and they knew it) career moment for him is what's not rational. ?This is a guy who can pull archaic music and album information out of his brain at a moments notice on air...on music that was released 20 years ago by a one hit wonder. You're practically attacking his professional credibility.


Again, reading into something rather than reading it. ?That's seems to be a common thread in your replies. ?I didn't say "nana you live in fantasy land". ?I said all you have on this subject is a fantasy. ?A theory. No proof. ?No evidence. Nothing. Nada. Zero. And you 've yet to provide anything to contradict that assertion. ?So what would you prefer we call it? ?

And how about you address the fact you have no proof?


And in every quote he has qualified his answers when he's unclear...but didn't do so in the email to me? ?Strange, no?

Have you ever heard Eddie talk? ?He tends to say "I think" a lot.....

And, once again, you're interepreting and not reading.? He didn't say "he got a quick listen in his car".? He simply said he listened to them in his car on the way home.? How long his commute is, or how closely he listened, you have no earthly idea.  He lives in Jersey, according to his bio...and broadcasts out of NYC.

The FACT is Eddie has categorically denied "Better" was on the CD.? That's neither inconsistent nor vague.

I have posted and paraphrased, over and over, what he said. ?You're just not reading it. In addition, I don't ever remember you asking for a quote or paraphrase...you wouldn't really have to since my posts are littered with them (both the quote and paraphrases of it).?Oh, and I never, ever, ever declined to post what he said. I declined to post the email, in full, or forward it to anyone but jarmo and madison. ?In fact, I did post his quote right from the get go. ?In fact, I think I posted it in the ORIGINAL thread started on the issue (go ahead, use the search function) when I got the email, and again in the "Better instrumental discussion" thead.? Here, one more time, for your pleasure:? "No, it wasn't."

And I did answer your question. ?But again, you didn't read it. ?Another common theme, so far, in this discussion.

Ok, I am a bit more convinced. Sometimes it takes an explanation of what people know rather than blanket statments to dispel ignorance.

I appreciate the response and patience in this thread in helping many of us figure out what is going on.