Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I wonder if it exists?

Dude, good thing I saw the original post, although now you make me wonder...

yes it exist..  i have it ....

I don't believe you.? ;)

that's your problem

Alot of people on this board think I am a liar. What I am guilty of is getting too excited and posting things I should keep as speculation. I just want to share what I hear and sometimes... I am in a position to hear things most people wouldn't. Problem is, sometimes it's bullshit.

Hehe, I was kidding.

Lol, this thread confuses me. ? :D :D

what do you want to know?

if it exists?
or if someone is willing to send it to you?

This was great, you can hear some stuff you didn't when Axl was on it.

Neither, I was just screwing around. I allready have it. I like it allot.

Remember, no links and no requests please.

so you're just screwing with the mods then....

No, I wasn't. I couldn't post a link so I just posted a rhetorical question out that we all knew the answer too.

What is with people trying to put a negative spin on everything? C'mon folks lighten up!  ???

sorry man, didn't mean to hit a nerve...its just that they close repeat threads pretty quickly...there already is a Better Discussion Thread, and I thought you created this one on purpose just to piss them off...that's all...

Back on topic...glad you like it...I like it a lot myself.

i hate when you need itunes to play it.. but still pretty good.

Thanks, I appreciate that.

I think the Buckethead solo sounded a little abrupt in the Vocal Demo, but for some reason the Instrumental Version doesn't feel that way. Maybe I am just getting used to it. LOL, with my luck I will get attached to it just in time to hear the new version with a completely different solo. At least now I recognize why the album had to be re-recorded when Bucket left, people seeing them live would be like "WTF happened to the solos?"

Windows Media Player (version 10) plays it nicely for me. I don't know what possible plug-ins I have, but the WMP just asks one extra question and after clicking OK it plays it.

real player will play it

exists or not??

yes it does - look real hard and u will find it

meh- what this proves to me is that the cd most of the newer leaks (IRS, Better, TWAT) is almost out of material. I say good, bring on the real deal : ok:

instrumentals of all 4 demos exists don't they?

are you horny? :P

yea, especially twat.

Yay I guess the 3 leeks are from a disc same to the catcher had.

If so, there should be instrumental twat and IRS as well as better.

And the band kickass!!!Go GN'R GO! :D

windows media player wont play it, so im using itunes for now. does anyone know how to change it to mp3?

well, this does show how good the band is-but i wish i had heard this one prior to the vocalized one- b/c that makes it alot more complete-ah well, i have a feeling we arent far away from hearing the real thing!

Also, I agree the TWAT instrumental would be interesting to hear, given the complexity of the song.

damn, i come back from a night of sleep and i've got like 40 pm's, and my original thread is gone. wonder why? i didn't post any links.

i haven't heard back from the guy that's supposed to hook me up with the other instrumentals yet. hopefully he gets back to me. if he doesn't, i'm sure someone else has em and will leak them eventually.

nice  : ok: tell him about the guests section  :hihi:

Sounds awesome!

nah... was ;)
are you..?  ::)

didn't the cd with the leaks consist of 4 demos and 4 instrumentals of them'?

http://www.tomdownload.com/audio_mp3/mp3_converter/convert_m4a_to_mp3_converter.htm

Newest winamp plays it without problems, and thats for free.

Apologies if I've missed something then, but do we think all the leaked songs are all from the Trunk CD? (Which was meant to contain 8 songs, 4 with vocals, 4 instrumentals of the same songs)

Trunk said, in an email to me personally (which I forwarded on to jarmo here at HTGTH and madison at mygnrforum), that Better was not on the CD he had.

wow you can really hear fincks work on this song and its great

Buckethead = God

In Itunes just go under advanced then convert to mp3

There is so much going on there in the background - good to hear a  instrumental version, I would have overheard it.  Esp. the "masturbating robot parts" after 3:20.

Sweet tune.  :)

seems to me like a higher quality recording than the full version of better ??? or is it just the way it was ripped?

Its better since its mp4

anything different about it than the full version we have with vocals?

I usually like to hear the instrumental/karaoke track of any song, but especially on with this level of musicianship.
Awesome track!

Its the same but you hear most things you dont notice with axl singing over it

... what makes me  :drool: for a leak of the TWAT instrumental.

this does sound a lot better then the full better version even after i converted it!!

god, I'm gunna sound like a broken record here but bucketheads parts MAKE these demo's and I really hope he's still on the album. This stuff is too good to never see the light of day.

Why doesn't the leaker rip it to 320 mp3?   :(   

If any one has the sources could the encode it to this bit rate?  That would rule

It shows how great this band is. Beautiful!

yes it does!!  :beer:

I hear you man. I hear you.

Nah can't be......cuz i got an mp3 of the track :P

well     they`re good enough without bucket...  though i pray to hear his work on CD!!

but on the other hand i want to hear richard`s work....  i guess his influence will be bigger on future records, but axl said he did some leads on CD, too.....

by the way i like this instrumental. sometimes it`s really hard to hear the band in the full demo version...


someone should encode the entire cd into lossless....like the cd including cornshucker : ok:

Trunk also said that he didn't remember WHAT the other tracks were, because he didn't have much time to listen to them. He described one as having an industrial flavor. He didn't know the names and basically said "it was two years ago, I don't remember anymore."

Given the lack of other new material and the sham trading show we saw play out on the forums, I've come to believe it's the same disc.

Not to me, he didn't.? Again, the email was forwarded along.

He simply said Better was not on the CD he had been given.

You can ask for no better source on the subject than the guy who had the disc.  Hell, you can email Trunk, himself on the subject.  Include the versions of Better and see what he says.

It's not the same disc/source. Period.?   

Believe what you'd like.

It sounds really cool. I'm listening to it now.

What he said to you doesn't concern me; he has publically stated that he did not remember what was on the CD. There's a very good chance the answer you got from Trunk was not 100%.

Again, I don't need to email him.

"It was almost two years ago, so I don't remember that much. It sounded kind of like G&R with a modern edge. Same direction as Oh My God."

That easily describes Better. And this is a guy who might have had one chance to listen to it, possibly scanning through the tracks.

Trunk's CD had 4 songs and 4 instrumentals. Isn't it funny how we now have 4 songs... and the next leak is an instrumental?

When I see a fifth song, I'll be willing to believe there's another source. Until then, everything is playing to form.

I think "No, it wasn't" is a pretty categorical answer, don't you?? Considering he'd heard the new leak? Not "I'm not sure". Not "I can't remember". "No, it wasn't".  So, rest assured, it wasn't.

So, in the face of direct categoric evidence to the contrary, from the direct source of the leak, who was actually present and heard the CD, you choose to believe something they say is untrue?

Hey, more power to ya.

But the FACT is...it's not the same source. Period.? Trunk confirmed it.

Believe what you want.

I thought Trunk only had 3 instrumentals and three songs.....Pilferk, what is your best guess as to where the leaks came from?

I have no earthly idea.  I've seen a bunch of theories floated about that are all as likely as the next.  A DJ ripping a copy of the CD that Axl has played in a club. Disks Axl has "shared" with other musicians to get their input (and those musicians then share with their friends, etc, etc).  Intra-label preview discs getting ripped or just flat out shared.  Buckethead having the demos and deciding to let them "out there" to his friends.  Etc, etc.  MOST of those can't be tracked down back to a source who is either a) going to comment or b) going to comment honestly given the implications.

Trunk, on the other hand, has no reason and no agenda to NOT tell the truth.  So, the one thing I can say with utmost certainty is that Better did not come from the Trunk CD.  IRS, Catcher, TWAT? Maybe...I didn't ask about those.

But definitely not Better.  Which means there has to be at least one other source "out in the wild".

And good memory:

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1477813/20030902/guns_n_roses.jhtml?headlines=true

Trunk believes a fan aware of Piazza's love for all things rock sent him the CD-R, which also included the instrumental and complete versions of two other songs. So whoever sent Piazza the disc must have obtained it through the studio, he reasoned.

From the article at the time the disk was played, there were THREE total songs: IRS and two others.

And Eddie's comments on 9/1/03:
http://www.gnrlies.com/eddietrunk.html

There were other tracks and music on the CD as well, but I only had a chance to listen to them on the ride home. Mike left the CD with me, so I could determine what to do with it from there.


The rest of the CD was also cool. It sounded like a total of 3 songs, with instrumental versions of each of the 3, making a total of 6 tracks (I think). The last track, which I did not play, was the best. A great rocker, with tons of shredding guitar from Buckethead. I don't know what the title was, but I kinda wish I had the chance to play that one as well. Mike & I didn't really know what we had, so we just played the first track IRS.

He also said he liked the last track in it best, didn't he?

I think it's the same one.

Well, given the fact that we know he heard the track at the time..

And given the fact I know he heard the leaked version of "Better"....

And given the fact he says Better was not on the CD...

I agree with Pilferk...Better definitely is "newer" than the other three. Sounds like it was recorded/mixed in an entirely different session whereas CITR, TWAT and IRS are similar in mix....in my humble opinion.  ???

I can see that connection with the other three songs. Better also just has a newer feel.. Its weird to explain I guess.

No way! IRS and TWAT doesn't have similar mix... CITR doesn't sound like the other ones too, but I'm not so sure about this one because of the poorly source (most likely a regular tape).

I think we can pretty safely say that CITR is the oldest of the demos we have, if only because we know that May's sessions predated Bucket's entry into GnR.

didn't brian may do his guitar parts for CITR in 1998?

end of '99

The date of Brian May's recordings means nothing. A guitar track recorded in 1999 could be added to the song in 2006, if they want to.

End of '99 :P between mid-November and end of December



http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/news/shownews.php?newsid=230

True, the demo could have been assembled any time.

BUT still,  some of the parts (if not most of them), at least, are older than any of the other material we have...simply because, again, we know Mays parts predates Bucket's entry into ?the band.

Which, for my money, means the material is older than the rest.

Given the fact trunk said he was warned by Sanctuary legally with a "cease and desist" order or something.

Given the fact that Trunk and piazza said Sanctuary had come and collected the stuff.

Given the fact that Trunk and piazza claim that they handed everything over. 

The option is still there.

However

seemingly The leakers are saying some are TWO year old demos from November 2004 according to maddy 88. ::)

Which has exactly bupkiss to do with Trunk's direct comment that "Better" was not on the CD.

See, the option ISN'T there.? Trunk said it wasn't there.? It wasn't there.? Did you hear the CD?? Then how is your "opinion" at all credible, never mind more credible than what the guy who actually heard it says about it?? Answer: It isn't.

If you heard a GnR song 3 years ago, from a CD that created a shitstorm that still follows you, liked it, and heard it again today, do you think you could tell it was the same song when you played it again??Hell, the crappy version of IRS came out a year ago.? Did you recognize it when the "clean" version leaked? Now take into account you're a guy who MAKES HIS LIVING IN THE MUSIC BUSINESS?? And your reputation is VERY important to you, since it's what you trade on?? Please.....

But again, if you want to believe something in direct contradiction to fact...go for it.? ?But, unless you can get a categorical comment out of Piazza that directly contradicts Trunk (good luck with that...I tried...and am still trying actually), since he's the only other person who heard the CD......you got no foundation for your belief...and can provide no credible evidence to the support it.

Better came from another source.? Period.

So? Do you really think May's work can't make it at the final version? Does that mean that CITR is older than IRS (as far as I know, it's Paul Tobias on the left channel and Buckethead's solo could be added later)?

My 2 cents.

I think it's good. I wish there were more instrumental versions of songs around. It really helps you appreciate the musical ability and talent that has gone into making it. The rhythm bit of the song is really danceable to and the solos sounds even better on the instrumental.

Sounds good to me  : ok:

I, personally think it's from around 2000-2001ish but that doesn't mean anything cuz i don't know shit about where its from :hihi:

From back articles it looks like May came in to redo Robin's stuff, and robin has since come back so the final track may be a hybrid of Robin/May, That's my theory as to why the blues sounds so much like May, but Robin's webmaster says Robin wrote the song. I think that's a major peice to that puzzle. I can pull quotes to support that if you want : ok:

this will make for fun karoke come friday night!!!  :hihi:

drunken better kaorke starts now! i mean friday!

Friday? Yay, I wanna hear you scream!

Pilfilk
Trunk said "sounds like so I don't remember well cos I heard it ages ago" or something along those lines.
 when IRS leaked last year.
I donno why you are so desparately denying the trunks option? ::)
I'm just saying I don't rule out it yet.

Trunk confirmed what he believes. Trying to claim it's confirmed is BS unless you have the CD. So please don't act as if you've got 100% proof.

You choose to believe Trunk, I choose not to trust the guy's memory from three years ago.

"It sounded like a total of 3 songs" - even here Trunk isn't sure. Until we see another leak, I'm not at all convinced we have anything not on Trunk's disc.

Man,I like Bucketheads parts on this song,I couldn't hear the solo as good as I can on this version,maybe it's just my hearing,I dunno : ok:

i think I must have missed something!!! didn't realise it had leaked!  :o

I love the song, not sure why they have instrumentals on cds though?!

was the quality like the other leaks??

At this point what does the source matter? the fact that someone leaked an instrumental tells me that whatevers out there is limited. i expect we'll probably get instrumentals of TWAT and IRS, but after that the leak well runs dry. hopefully by then we'll have a better idea of when the actual album with its finished tracks is coming out :drool:

1badapple is trying to get the rest. we will have them soon :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi: :hihi:

Listening to the instrumental, this song doesn't sound like a demo to me. A lot of production has gone into this song, and it's well done too.

I played it on basic Quicktime.

What do you expect from a demo in this century? An old tape with hiss, drum machine, low quality and sloppy guitars like Crash Diet, Sentimental Movie, The Garden..?

Those Metal Talk guys seemed to "imply" that Piazza made up the story about receiving the disc from an anonymous source to protect his real source - a guitarist who goes by the name of Zakk Wylde. So who knows .. just another theory.

As for the "Better" instrumental, it sounds fantastic! Although it is certainly improved with Axl's vocals, you can really listen to and appreciate the guitar work and the intricate detail. There is no reason to believe that this song has not changed since this was recorded, thus making it a "demo", but it is clearly an attempt at a finished version and a lot of work has been done here. This is not just some first take ...

I can't hear the song...cause I can't open

where was the "Better instru" posted first? (i shouldnt have slept early :'()

TRYING is the key word there, so please don't jump down my throat if i don't get them. i said from the very start that i wasn't promising anything. I'm still waiting on "the source" to get back to me. 

i want to make it clear that i have no contacts or sources within or near the GnR camp. i don't want anyone thinking that i'm trying to come off as important or something, but the person who asked me if i wanted this made me promise not to mention him because he's already had to deal with GnR's management. i don't want to get anybody sued. Besides, if i give him up, he definately won't be giving me the other instrumentals ;)

this was just basically a case of luck. someone i had talked with a few weeks back got a hold of me and asked me if i would be interested in any of the 3 instrumentals. of course i said yes. i was asked which 1 i wanted first. now personally, i wanted TWAT, but i thought i should go with what i felt the majority of you would want and it's quite apparent to me that overall "better" is the majority's fav, so that's what i chose. now, i get to play the waiting game and see if he gets me the other 2 instrumentals ( IRS & TWAT). I've been told by this person that this IS all that is left and i believe him.

Good to know. Thanks and keep us posted.

it was leaked here first-approx 7 minutes after i got it ( i had to give it a listen first ;)  ).
i never posted any links, i just started a topic something like "Better instrumental has leaked" knowing that within seconds PM hell would begin. i answered a few of the pm's, then went over to your site  : ok:

Hey man, kudos for doing it RIGHT.

I wouldn't be shocked if those instrumentals are all that's left... which pretty much means there's just the one source CD.

\

i feel special  :love: :hihi: :P
thanx for the info

I love the riff parts that remind me of a machine gun! This song is going to be a masterpiece once we hear the final mix.

For those few who say these recent leaks are not demo's, I think the "Better" instrumental proves they are.

"Better" is not the kind of song you would have an instrumental of included on the single.

Axl is probably using the instrumental to try various different vocal takes on, of which we already have one. Yeah, so this almost proves they are demo's, which is great because the final version of this song is going to rock.

I agree. I think Buckethead is so important to this cd. He is just so fuckin good. I love what he put into this song.

This is quite a mystery brewing.

In order to be believed, the Trunk CD would have to had both versions of TWAT, Better (vocals and instrumental), IRS, and probably the instrumentals to IRS. That would be six tracks but contradicts the 3 vocals/ 3 instrumental report that we first obtained . Like the rest of Trunk's comments, this report seems a bit spurious and evasive. It is not implausible that he maybe off a bit by his description, meaning that there were 2 instrumentals and 4 finished. I could see that.  As for comparing these leaks to what he heard, I wouldn't necessary trust him to identify a track from its quality of recording. However, if he is certain that a specific track is not there, then that opens up the existence of second cd. As of this moment, I am not convinced that the leak of IRS, TWAT, & Better came from a source other than Trunk.

Catcher because it is obviously an older demo (i.e. has drums and Brian May's recognizeable contributions) must have come from another source. There was talk that this was leaked internal source who was not authorized to do so. If there were other tracks out there, I think we would hear these footsteps already.  My guess is that someone affliated with the label leaked it from old recordings left over after Axl was booted out of the studio; recorded it to tape either as his source or later, and leaked when the other stuff leaked out.

This is an awesome instrumental....I didn't think I would enjoy it as much as I did
Not bad at all.....

From Eddie 9/1/03


If he is correct, then

1. IRS (vocals)
2. IRS (instrumental)
3. TWAT (6:43)
4. TWAT (6:03) ???
5. Better
6. Better (instrumental)
7. TWAT (instrumental)???

that would make seven tracks , not six. Eddie's description of Bucket shredding is definately TWAT so TWAT with vocals is on the disc. Considering Trunk's somewhat ambiguous comment about the number of tracks, this 7 song list could be possible. The wild card though is the second vocal version of TWAT. Where did it come from? It was leaked almost simultaneously as the longer version. Could the second leaker have leaked this out quietly when TWAT appeared or is the second version of TWAT the 'instrumetnal version' that Trunk may have mistakenly referred to.

Catcher is a different leak though. All signs point to that. It is possible that the second cd could have had one of the vocal TWAT versions.


there hasn't been any link to that paricular Eddie comment. How reliable is this?

Isn't CITR the only leaked track with a glitch/skip?
That might be a clue as to whether or not there is more than one source cd out there.

Yes very good point. CITR has a recording glitch which sounds like a tape skip. Another reason to believe that it was from a different source.

For what it's worth, the rip of Better instrumental lists it as Track 8.

When he says "the rest of the CD had 6 tracks," could still be IRS/IRS instrumental, or maybe one lacked an instrumental.

I also wouldn't rule out CITR as being on it. That glitch could have been picked up earlier, and the CD assembled later on.

1. IRS
2. IRS (instrumental)
3. TWAT (6:43)
4. TWAT (6:03)
5. TWAT (instrumental)
6. Catcher
7 Better
8. Better (instrumental)

This would mean that Trunk was either completely wrong or misunderstood. 4/4 vs 3/3 ummmm......Not enough evidence really.

I don't really understand why the shorter version of 'TWAT' would be on the Trunk cd. Just doesn't make sense to have the full 'TWAT', the shorter 'TWAT', then the instrumental 'TWAT' (both versions?). Though 'Better' matches Trunks description of "a great rocker with tons of Buckethead shredding", I'm leaning towards the opinion that 'Better' was NOT on that particular cd. We know that 'CITR' came from a different source, why couldn't 'Better'?

We don't know that CITR came from a different source. If I would leak those tracks, I would try to hide any evidence that links them to just one source. I mean, CITR could be made to sound like its not from the same source. I mean, am I the only one who think it's ridiculous to have a tape recording these days (even in 1999)? With just a soundforge/adobe audition program, it's very easy to add hiss and distort it to sound like an old tape.

BTW, I don't care if it's the Eddie Trunk/Mike Piazza cd or not. All I'm saying is that we can't be sure that all those demos came from different sources.

So? Do you really think May's work can't make it at the final version? Does that mean that CITR is older than IRS (as far as I know, it's Paul Tobias on the left channel and Buckethead's solo could be added later)?

No, I think May's work very likely will make it to the final version.  And yes, it means that CITR is probably older than IRS..at least most of the material making it up is.  When it was "assembled"?  Who knows.

You pointed out the sound was very different.  I was simply pointing out the probable time differences in when the material was written/recorded.

That's it.

Because he has much more recently said, categorically, that Better was not there.  Thus, since he didn't categorize his response to me with "I'm not sure", or "I don't remember"....It's wasn't there.

Ask him yourself.....

It is confirmed...by the guy who had the CD.  Again, did YOU hear it?  So how is your opinion on the subject even relevant?

Why is that so hard to understand?  It IS 100% proof. 

I choose to believe the eyewitness (earwitness?) who categorically denies it was on the CD.

I choose to believe the guy who has heard both the material on the CD and the leak.

I choose to believe the guy who has a reputation that he trades on and has no reason to lie.

I choose to believe the guy who has, in the past, categorized things when he doesn't remember by saying "I don't remember" but who, in this case, was absolutely categorical in his answer.

You choose to believe in a fantasy with no corroboration or proof.

Like I said: Believe what you want.

But, it was not there. Period.

In a personal email to me on 2/17/06 which was forwarded on to jarmo and madison for verification.  jarmo, I'm sure, will verify this if asked.  I won't forward it along to anyone else because it has some personal info attached to it that I won't make public.  I created an actual thread on BOTH forums (htgth and mygnrforum) when I got the email, so they're still around here somewhere.

Trunk categorically says Better was not on the CD.

It wasn't on the CD.

Despite what anyone else wants to believe.

No, I think May's work very likely will make it to the final version.  And yes, it means that CITR is probably older than IRS..at least most of the material making it up is.  When it was "assembled"?  Who knows.

You pointed out the sound was very different.  I was simply pointing out the probable time differences in when the material was written/recorded.

That's it.Hmmm.. what's the subject here? I *THINK* the thing is: what matter is when those demos were "assembled" or "produced" or whatever. Robin's guitar work, Tommy's bass lines and Brain/Freese drums in TWAT can be from 98/99 aswell, but we're not sure. Same in Better (altought I doubt) and IRS.

And why are we discussin this subject? It doesn't matter now when the songs were written or some tracks from the songs were recorded. Otherwise, you could complain about the final album, because I'm sure the guys recorded most of their tracks in between '99-02.

Anyways, the thing is: I believe that all the demos could be from the same era and could be recorded at the same time to the final source (the leaker).

That's it.

The whole, entire, complete reason behind my original post was to agree with you that the sounds were different, and point out that, by the looks of things, the time frame things were recorded were also different (as in, one possible reason the "sound" is different...or not).? That was it.? No hidden agenda, no comments on what was on the final album, no complaints about the material being recorded awhile back.? Nada.? I like the stuff as is (with the exception of the production issues we've all talked about like mix).

i hope that the rest of the instrumentals get leaked as well.....

keep them coming!!

I think the vocals have been EQ'd out of this track. I think it's the "Better" we have with the vocals removed using software.

Listen carefully and I swear you can still hear Axl's voice, very low volume.

no,it's an instrumental version

yeah i don't hear shit either, and i had it cranked pretty loud in my earphones

... between 2:05 and 2:12 I'm sure I can hear the "All that I wanted...."

Ah, who knows. Maybe I'm goin' crazy.

holy shit!!! I think you're right :hihi: You must be listening to it pretty damn loud ;D Good catch man : ok:

It's the instrumental. I made a version without vocals using Adobe Audition - it miss the drums and the solos. Also, sounds digital...

A friend of mine heard the same thing as you, tho. :confused:

No way I'd rather ask piazza. :hihi:

As far as I know, those who ought to listen to a hundred of new albums or so every month because of their profession, usually forget how a track goes as soon as they finish marking it, well unless they are at leisure, perhaps. Then again They'd remember a tune by their fav band.
If my memory serves me correctly trunk said he's not big on GNR but piazza.

Besides
My teacher says on a maltiple choices test the categorical ones are most likely wrong.
It seems he has a recollection of the chinese DEMO more vivid now than he did then.
Wonder if he happened on something to make it remember by lately.

And I believe what?
other people and me are not "believing".
Again, We're yet to jump into the conclusion. That's all.

I think what you're hearing is just a guitar playing the vocal melody.  It's pretty choppy and it follows it properly.

very possible, I'd rather listen to the full version with vocals though so it don't matter to me much But i did hear something, I was just telling ACR that I heard what he did so he didn't thik he was insane or something, sooo...yeah :peace:

we're all just fuckin' crazy,we all knew that already tho : ok:

't actually happens quite often. guitars have similar range to voices.

the songs exist as mp3 or as m4a

It's true. On Americas Funniest Home Videos there was a cat meowing that sounded just like a guitar playing a tume that just happened to sound like a person saying "Mama". Pretty wild.

This is getting old. You have Trunk giving "proof" based on something he heard three years ago. He has already said he does not remember what the other songs were. He didn't give a close listen to all tracks, and he wasn't even sure exactly how many tracks were ON the demo. He says "maybe 3 more." Take that maybe into a court (I'm just making an analogy here) and you WILL be shot full of holes.

And don't tell me "it was not there. Period." unless YOU have the CD and can confirm it beyond hearsay.

Which, you don't and can't.

If you can't see that that doesn't equal 100% proof, you're blind. Either way, you've got your opinion, I've got mine - don't tell me yours is gospel, because it ain't.

High horses have long falls. The path of these leaks have followed exactly what I laid out to a T. I'd be more than happy if I was wrong, because it would mean the potential for more material, but it hasn't played out so far.

I can definitely hear the word "You" at 2:13-2:14

I ask because I haven't seen the evidence for myself. My questions to you would be:

Are you certain that Trunk heard the leaked Better and compared it to the tracks from the disc he listened to 3 years ago?

Have you asked if CITR was on that disc, because 3/3 means IRS, TWAT and one other... What was that other song?

Was Trunk certain about Better not being there or did he say that he thought or believed it wasn't there? I'm trying to account for uncertainty here.


I don't think the Trunk CD has been ruled out at all here. CITR could still be from the disc if Better is eliminated from inclusion.  I think support for a second leaker is much stronger now that Catcher leaked because clearly Trunk's  cannot account for all the leaked tracks.

Trunk has already said he doesn't remember what was on the CD, and he no longer has the tracks. If I recall, he only had the CD for about 24 hours...

If such a comparison was possible, it would be much easier, but Trunk's only description of the tracks was the interview he did with Splat of all places.

What's we're asking is basically impossible - a perfect comparison of tracks from now and three years ago on memory alone.

We could also have a case where the original source who sent the disc to Piazza has added in an extra track and sent them to somewhere else. That would still be a single source.

It's impossible to verify either way unless another track leaks. An extra track would completely eliminate the Trunk CD from being the lone source... and open up a world of possibilities.

The fact that an instrumental leaked though makes me very wary to eliminate the Trunk CD. Afterall, it is the only confirmed Chinese Democracy leak in existence.

not true. i'm pretty sure CITR wasnt from the trunk cd at all... 4 songs leaked, there were only 3 on the trunk cd.

You're right about one thing.? It is getting old.

I'm not going to rob you of your illusions.

Trunk never said "he didn't remember what was on the CD".? He said he was fuzzy on the details (read the whole interview...his response about "not remembering much" was in direct response to a question asking for specific details).? MORE RECENTLY, he categorically denied it was there.? He didn't say "maybe 3 more", he said "sounded like 3 more".? You're interpreting, rather than reading.

Oh, and eyewitness accounts?? Hardly hearsay....at least not in court.? You might label MY assertions hearsay, because I'm telling you what he said.? That's precisely why I sent the email off to jarmo and madison for verification at the time I originally posted the information.? You could also contact him yourself...but you won't.

And, if we're discussing proof...where exactly is yours that it DID come from the Trunk CD?? RIGGGGHHHHHT.? All you have is your "theory"....

The guy was positive it was not on the CD.? He heard it.? You didn't.?

Which means your "opinion" is worth exactly....right....

As for being blind...I'd suggest you look in the mirror..but, given your posts, and stubborn refusal to see reality...that would be a waste of time, to be sure.

It wasn't there. Period.

I'm certain he had it in his possession.

I only asked about Better.  CITR had not leaked yet.

His exact words were: "No, it wasn't".  Pretty categorical to me.

Again, you can ask jarmo to confirm, if you'd like.

You can also email Trunk directly from his website and ask him yourself.

I've sent correspondance off to Piazza both through the Padres and through his agent.  If I ever get a response, I'll let you know.

I did try to directly contact him through the Padre's media office....but they would not approve the request because the matter had nothing to do with baseball.

As for your teacher...there's a large difference between categoric answers on a test and a definitive categoric answer coming from a person.  I think that's pretty easy to discern.

As I said, I'm sure he had Better.  That may have "jogged his memory" a bit, eh?  Or maybe, while fuzzy on the details of the content, he's pretty able to remember WHAT the content was.

As for not jumping to a conclusion....I'd say by doubting Trunks own words, you're doing just that.

The ending instrumentals (during the last verse) sounded different than i first thought when listening to the version with axl's vocals.... anyone else find them interesting?