Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Please answer me this. You claim they need slashs touch , a lot of you have alluded to this well answer this simple question. You can claim the demos so far dont have the classic gnr solos or riffs and that it needs slashs touch but the VR songs dont have classic gnr riffs or solos and those solos are very bland and guess what? Slash wrote them. So if slash cant even write a good riff or solo for VR then how would he do it for Axls new songs which are songs he did not want to work on in the first place and one of the reasons he quite the band? Answer that simple question.

Loaded question Dave.

You don't need to take up board space with this and you should know. But.. too late. Here comes 6 pages of nothing

Its a very fair question.

Why must you continue to drive the nail in the same old coffin? You are making yourself look like a fool.

Its a fair question but one that won't give you the answer you want. If you really wanted to discuss you should have posted in Dead Horse

Gee, you got us there Dave...

Weren't you the one that said Axl pushed Slash to get the best out of him?

Well seeing as Axl wasn't around for VR's album to push Slash, that's why it's "bland" as you put it.
So maybe if Slash was on these new GN'R songs, Axl would be pushing Slash to put something great on there.

Does that answer your question?

Btw, I think the new GNR songs sound pretty damn good, regardless of whether Slash is on there or not. I love the guitar solos on TWAT.

Because no one that claims the solos arent good have not answered the simple question.

 :confused: What?

Dave look.. you shoulda/coulda put this in Dead Horse and nobody would be complaining. It was a loaded, dead question from the start.

This isn't personal, and I like you man.. so.. im just tellin ya.

Slash did not want to work on these kind of songs so his heart would not be into making the songs. So how could Axl get anything out of him? Axl tried to get slash to work on the snake pit songs but slash refused and took them as is and used them for snake pit.

Slash would have brought the songs he used for VR and Axl would have tried to get slash to make them better and slash would have refused.

As for me saying that axl pulled the best out of slash, those slashs words that i was just reitteratiing.

The poster above is correct. This is a loaded question because it has the false presupposition that Slash's work with VR is bland.

I LOVE TWAT SOLO

Thanks Dave!

Im leaving this thread now.

You think Slashs work on VR has any classic gnr solos or riffs to it? They dont. So what is the problem? Certain people claim that the new gnr songs dont have classic gnr solos and riffs well my point was neither does the VR songs. So how could slash write them if he did not for VR? Why cant you answer the question.
You cant name me one VR song that has the guitar work as good as WTTJ, PC, SCOM, estranged or Nov Rain, so the question is very fair.

The concept of "individual opinion" and "taste" is something that seriously needs to be considered here. You cannot argue taste.

We've got the baseball bats, all we need now is a dead horse.

I hate to say it but it's all a matter of opinion...that's why these threads all end up the same way. ? You are gonna have your Slash fans and your Axl fans....Slash fans want what old GNR sounded like and won't except or admit a really good guitar solo from anyone in new gnr.....Axl fans except with open arms the way Axl keeps evolving with his music and how he doesn't want that old GNR sound. ? As far as riffs like scom or paradise city...I didn't hear anything like that on CB and I like CB. ?JMO. ? ?

i agree with dave and i admire him for always telling it like it is despite all the haters.
it's clear that slash needed axl to drive those solos out of him, he has not made one good solo after the last guns release. hence the results would be alot better for him in guns n' roses than in VR, musically, had he not been lazy and told axl he didn't want to "work that hard". and tell me TWAT hasn't got one of the greatest guitar solos ever to surface since the illusions, same with madagascar, CITR and the blues. open your eyes people, do you refuse to see who was the person that really made guns be what it was? besides the earlier guns demos did not have the great production and guitar work the final release had. these are demos, contraband was an officially released album. enough said.

Hmmm... I'm not sure where you are going with this.

People have said that nuGN'R solos are bland, but you think that Slash can do no better because you think VR are bland, yet Axl is the key person here who would push Slash to play something great.

Right?

BUT, you think that Slash would still play something bland because he doesn't like the new songs?
Maybe so, but didn't the old band (according to Axl) HATE songs like Patience and Estranged?

Yet, the solos on those songs sound pretty damn good.

I think there's the answer to your question right there.

ummmm ok..... they dont  ::)

So you do admit that the solos on Appetite and Lies are better than these new solos?  : ok:

Ok you dont make sense at ALL! lol whats ur point?

What dave is saying is inspite the fac that some of the band members AKA Slash might not have liked working on those songs, As a result of being part of Guns and Proper Motivation, created those works.. P.S. Slash Said he doesnt like the Solos in Estranged & Dont cry because they need alot of Concentration... That's just because he 's pretty much Lazy!

Last but not least, personally as much as I like CB, the Music was not Memorible at all, The Solo's sucked and the lyrics were boring.  I dont listen to it anymore.. but the NEW GNR songs have totally already moved past that point..

Regardless of my opinion towards Velvet Revolver's music, your argument is still fallacious because you speak upon something so subjective as Slash's solos to be taken as fact.

Also, why do you respond to any criticism towards the new band with criticism towards Velvet Revolver? Can people have a negative opinion about the new GNR songs without you accusing them of having a pro-Slash agenda? You seem to hold Velvet Revolver as a measuring stick for how good the new GNR songs are. To me, if a song is euphonious to my ears than that is the only test needed. To you, you keep a checklist between the nu-GNR songs at Velvet Revolver songs or other mainstream bands to justify your opinion. Why?

He has to do that unfortunately because most people opinion towards the NU GNR is Biased.. Comparing the Old with New.. and alot of people wont admit the music is good just because it's not exactly like the Old Sound, or is not the Old band..

Let's see here.

Slash's work without Axl hasn't approached his best work without Axl. The Guitar work in GNR without Slash hasn't approached the top echelon of Guns songs (at least for the 10 new songs we have heard).

Maybe, just maybe, Axl and Slash happened to bring the best out in eachother. Seeing as neither has been able to capture the glory of years past since the break-up, it may be entirely possible that they need eachother alot more than they, or any of the Axl or Slash fans are willing to admit.

So he has the ability to read people's minds and know that they secretly love the new songs but are only saying otherwise because they have an agenda against the new band?

No. Because The new stuff is far better than anything in CB as much as I liked it at the time it was released. because if they were released at the same time, I'd grab CD rather than CB... Because I havent listen to single song in CB since 2mnts after it was released. Because even when CB came out I was listen to it and was somewhat disappointed with what I heard.. and lately because the new GNR songs really have given me some new hope already. specailly TWAT and CITR...

The problem is that music issubjective.. But when Majority agree to this, and there is a few that continue to bitch and nag, u cant stop but question their behavior ......

It's sorta like the same thing I said in another thread. To some people Slash can never be and asshole.. If you dont see Slash dressing up like Buckethead on Halloween in the concert as a direct attack towards Nu-GNR then u are either blind or purely stupid..

but I have never said Axl was an angel either, i didnt like his words about how he is set to prove ex-members wrong and show how he was the main force behind the band...in the last interview ... He might be right, but he couuld have left that out..

Dave with the win.

You haters are owned.

gnr haters should go bury themselves before chinese democracy hits, that way they won't have to live with the embarrasment.

I think what you are failing to see, is that VR ain't GN'R, it's a new band and I think they purposely stepped away from the GN'R sound but went with their own hard rock sound and something new.

I've made perfect sense - I'm saying that Slash could've very well put great solos on these songs if pushed by Axl to do so like when he was still in the band.

Dave doesn't seem to think so.

By majority... do you mean the fact that Contraband has gone double platinum, won a grammy, and had a successful tour??  If you are going strictly on the majority then I think Velvet Revolver has you beat.

I was talking about the NU-GNR songs..Sorry bud.. :rofl:

P.S. ya considering the shit thats out there right now ofcourse VR is on top of the class.. I wonder if they;'d have done so well 10yrs ago?!?

Simply put personally nothing on CB wowed me.....but the new Demo's have...and they are just demos.. I will ciao when they new VR album comes out...  :yes:

This probably won't answer your question Dave, but here's my two pennies: I thought Slash was the saving grace of UYI. Even now when I listen to UYI (very rarely... but trust me, I've listened to them hundreds if not thousands of times), what I enjoy most is listening to Slash's guitar work. That said, the strongest new material (The Blues, Madagascar, Chinese Democracy, Better, CITR, and There Was A Time) is superior to pretty much everything on UYI. That's my opinion and don't even waste your time trying to change my opinion. Yours is yours, mine is mine.

Some people cannot see the faults in their arguments unless the tables are turned. I reworded the original post to prove a point.

For the people claiming the Contraband songs don't have good solos or they are bland...

Please answer me this: You claim they need Axl's touch , a lot of you have alluded to this well answer this simple question. You can claim that Contraband doesn't have the classic GNR solos or riffs and that it needs Axl's touch but the nu-GNR songs don't have classic GNR riffs or solos and those solos are very bland and guess what? Axl spent 10-years crafting them. So if Axl and his hired cronies can spend 10-years and can't even write a good riff or solo for Chinese Democracy then how would he do it for Contraband which are songs he doesn't even want to work on? Answer that simple question.


I hope some of you understand the point I am trying to make instead of accusing me of advocating what was posted above.

here we go again...... :no:

Yep, that Axl and Slash both need each other to create their best music. No arguments there.

But I still disagree with Dave's post that Slash couldn't have put good solos on the nuGN'R songs.

It was my understanding that Slash actually didn't write a lot of the riffs on Contraband. Whether that adds or takes away from your argument, I'm not sure. I'm just throwing it out there.

I've found that a lot of guitar players don't "live up" to what they created at the height of their career. I don't care for 99% of the stuff Jimmy Page did outside of Led Zeppelin. Or Joe Perry's work outside of Aerosmith. I don't see that as talking shit as much as it speaks for a pair of people who were able to bring out the best in each other.

The playing on the demos may be a little uninspired in places but that's what demos are all about. If you listen to the VR demos with Scott the playing is pretty uninspired there too. That's just the nature of recording sessions never meant for the public.

I'm with dave on this one ;D

Actually, that is not my point. I am not siding with Axl, or Velvet Revolver, or anything in between. I am merely showing how fallacious the entire argument is and hopefully by switching the wording, people who were unable to notice the fallacies in the original argument could view it under a new perspective and see why the entire argument is senseless.

DING DING DING!!

WE HAVE A WINNER, JOHNNY!

Why is this post getting ignored by all you dipshits? That's the only post in this topic that makes any kind of sense.

LOL well thats your opinion like I said before, the new stuff sounds definately better than anything in CB..and it does sound pretty ok comparing to alot of song on AFD for sure

Did you happen to read this part of my post: I hope some of you understand the point I am trying to make instead of accusing me of advocating what was posted above. It is not meant to be my opinion.

I think the leaks prove that Axl doesn't need Slash...and they are just demos. They are the shit dreams are made of. That is how I described the leaks to people.

When I have described VR, I used the words "Its ?okay" a lot. Of course it sold well though. Compared to the shit that is out its great. Compared to GNR and these latest leaks from GNR, they are amateur hour at best.

The demos are good.. But not what dreams are made of. Listen to sit there and say Slash does not have talent and or can not write good riffs, music, etc etc is just senceless. This argument will never end and has some of you looking like a little over obsessed.

Maybe we aren't listening to the same music because I have heard no guitar work from Nu GNR that is going to supplant the SCOM or NR solos as the best produced by GNR.

With Slash Axl produces arguably the greatest RnR album ever. Without Slash we have gotten nothing so far, and from the demo's we have heard we will get a good/great album that won't be considered the band's best ever.

Am I missing something that indicates he doesn't need Slash if he can't produce a record greater than Appetite without him? Yet was able to change the face of RnR with him? I must be lost.

Eh, Velvet Revolver do have some great riffs and solos. Slither and Sucker Train Blues riffs are classic, up there with the best GnR riffs and much better than the riffs to new-GnR songs such as the one on Chinese Democracy. Soloing-wise, the biggest problem most Slash fans have is the shredding on the new songs. Shredding and GnR together don't work. The Buckethead solos on IRS and Better ruin the songs. Fincks solos are better. But the non-shred solos, such as Madagascar, The Blues and There Was A Time (especially Buckethead's outro solo) are awesome. That said, people who say VR solos are bland should listen to You Got No Right and Loving The Alien. Only Slash can play with such emotion as in the solo on Loving The Alien - amazing! I think Slash would have improved CD because I prefer his soloing style overall, in particular to BH's shred, but I think Axl feels he can deliver the best possible album with Finck, so I will always trust his musical instinct.

damn dave you are always starting threads about the same shit...

It's obvious axl is the best ever slash needs the lead singer to help the guitar legend play his instrument.....

If you would think for a minute many people like the work on CB, but being you don't and others don't feel the same about the new gnr leaks you have to start these threads..

VR is not gnr. I don't think that vr is a guitar rock band in the manner gnr was, so that is why his guitar work isn't as spectacular as say gnr or some of his colaborations of snakepit.... yes we know you hate snakepit I'm sure..

Evereyone and their mother bash snakepit or say stupid shit like he hasn't done a great solo since gnr... Yes snakepit sold like a million copies....  I'm sure every slash hater has all his music  since gnr...

He just did an amazing rendition of hey joe with hendrix band but how many of the new gun's lovers ever say wow that was amazing... Every board I have posted the link loves the playing, but the "gnr" fans don't or won't comment on it being they might have to say soemthing nice about slash :hihi:

I have already said those songs are  better than most of the songs on the UYIs and a good number of songs on AFD, so you are agreeing with me.

He didnt spend ten years on them. That is like saying it took 6 years for gnr to make nov rain, dont cry, ycmb and back off bitch all of which were around before AFD.

No, you've formed an opinion.? Nothing wrong with that.

But not everyone is going to agree with that opinion, and, indeed, you can see that the majority of the posters here don't.

This stuff doesn't sound like NR or SCOM.? The styles are completely different.? The guitar playing is completely different.? Trying to compare the two is like trying to compare apples to oranges.? The new style might not be your cup of tea, or it might be.? You may prefer the old style to the new, or you might not.? Saying one is "better" than the other is going to be wholly based on your preferences.? Not so hard to understand why others are saying what they are....

This record is going to be very different from AFD.? People need to understand that.? And it doesn't need to be like AFD.? It doesnt' need to be "greater than AFD" (and I'd love to see THAT defined..greater how? Sales? Not gonna happen in today's landscape no matter how good the material is....greater "quality"..that's too subjective for anyone HERE to judge) either, it just needs to be better than anything ELSE out there.?

I don't see Contraband oustelling AFD either and the material certainly isn't "better than AFD" by anyone's measure...but it sure went a long way toward proving that Slash could exist and create relevant material without Axl.? CD can accomplish the same thing.

IMHO, the demos are better than anything any rock act not named Green Day has released in the past 5 years.?