Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Oh my god is right.  This new music isnt bad or anything, it just isnt the balls to the wall risky music I was expecting.  Better is pretty catchy, TWAT has some good guitar work, blah blah blah..     Is all I hear.   

Axl first of all said that he was going to put out an more industrial album.   What ever happend to that.   

I think Axl is trying to be Freddie, from Queen.   That about it.

I hope the finished work is a lot more powerfull than this.

Axl also. sounds really "weird"  when he is trying to hit those high notes.   It just dosnt sound great or anything..    Sorta like one of my friends trying to hit the high notes durring Jungle, at a bad kareoke party.

I also think that these songs are not close to any of the old great ones.

and please no more fucking "its only a demo coments".

most of you fuckers dont know what a demo is. in 2001 band members used to say that the songs are great, mind blowing,...
and the demos we have are from 2003 and they are no where near being mind blowing. and if the blues, better and twat are Axl's favorites and they are also the best ones he has, that this album will be the greatest disappointment since nirvana's 1st album came out.

Maybe we haven't heard the new mind blowing songs yet. Patience.

??? ??? ??? ??? ???

So your point is, in short, you haven't heard any of the leeks, right? Good boy!  : ok:

 Axl didn't say the new album was going to be industrial, people just kind of assumed it was. It's going to be a melting pot, there will be some industrial influence, but so much more.

And people are entitled to their opinions, but I think Madagascar, The Blues, There Was a Time, and Better are up near the top of GNR's best songs - demos or not.

Freddy Mercury is not a bad thing to shoot for.

I think the new demo songs are good. Its not 80's GNR.

Cut off your mullet and welcome to 2006.

Patience.. ? Oh ya that was a good song, too bad Izzy wrote it. ? I agree with the demo BS I read on here too. ?If you listen to the old gunners demos you could tell that they were on to something.

The best b-side old Gunners material, will better than anything on this new album. ? Thats a fact. ? Compaire them and you will agree. ?

I hope I am wrong and Axl blows me away, but so far that aint happening

america is a melting pot, and all the world hates it.

:yes: I agree, they're up there with their best classics! : ok: :peace:

have you heard any of the GNR songs except my world?
because the new songs can only compare to my world...

No you cant. Listen to the nov rain demo, the garden demo or any demo from UYI for that matter. Also the ?AFD early demos only a few of the songs had promise, You are only fooling yourself by claiming this.

Madagascar, the blues, twat and citr are all in the top 15 gnr songs ever.

Gimme a fucking break. If you really believe that, then why are you posting in this section? Go to the ex-gunners section, or the VR section. Take the same advice I just gave axlrosehunny. : ok:

The new songs? Are you refering to TSI or Sympathy for the devil? Because you can't be talking about the leaks....


See? Anyone can just state stuff like that, but it gets us nowhere.... :-\

S
I didnt assume anthing. ? ?Near the top of the best songs!! ? hahahaha, you really are a fan boy. ? The are shitty compared to G N' R standerds

Firstly .. I agree Axl does sound weird trying to hit those high notes... because in Toronto he hit those notes on songs such as rocket queen and welcome to the jungle.. and its kind of killed the songs intensity... he sort of made them sound like a campfire song.. so i totally agree with you in that sense.. i like it when applies that voice too songs like Catcher and the blues... but hell why do you have to ruin welcome to the jungle like that u know? lol.. I havent heard anything if his recent material sound like songs such as dont cry, and you aint the first.. his more calm, talking voice... i dont know its just his versatility which he needs to work on for this Cd.. hes got 4 types to my knowledge.. the raspy, the screeeam that will bring u to ure knees, the quiet talking voice, and his new... iMO campfire older person voice lol...

Do not EVER think that singing like freddie mercury is bad.. if axl could hit the same notes WOW.. Freddie is a top 5 performer of all time.. its a shame hes not around today but ill tell you one thing.. axl cant sound like him..

If find it funny that YOU'RE calling someone a fanboy.... ::)

Like I have said before Axls music has grown, its not going to be raw anymore. Listen to the ?beatles the white album, abbey road or stg peppers and compare it to their first album. Its like night and day. The same holds true for axl. Axl has progressed in his music and does not want to keep making AFD over and over again like bands like ac dc do.

They sould rename this from the Guns N' Roses forum. ? To the Axl Rose fan boy section. ? ?You guys sound really gay, after you are done giving yourselves wrap-arounds to the new guns, go see broke back mountain. ? This music is killer in that movie! ? ?Losers

I never said they new stuff was horrible, just not up to gunners standerds. ? ? You terds will be impressed with anything it looks like.

Great point, glad someone gets this.

Axl is an artist. If he wasn't he'd be an entertainer.

Please don't compare NEWGNR with OLDGNR because the time has changed.So whatever we are listening"leaked demos"are classic compairing to the songs that are been played or released by any rock bands...And i think this NEWGNR can kick any superrock band in media and YES it includes VELVET REVOLVER too......

Oh wow, a hater calling people fanboys. Typical. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't make us fanboys. Stop acting like it does...

Better if made in 1986 easily would have made AFD, the same holds true for IRS. TWAT and CITR would have easily made the UYIs and would have been singles and videos (they would no have made AFD for the same reason dont cry and nov rain didnt).

Oh fuck off, you obviously werent here the day the full demo for Better was leaked, it fuckin blew our minds.

this music is mindblowing to me, and to a lot of people, just because a few haters and naysayers say it sucks doesnt mean it sucks. Twat is every second as good as something off of the illusions, and better has a whole new sound that I cant even compare to the old stuff.

Dude... if you've been "waiting" 15 years for anything... well... that's your own damn fault.

If the new music isn't your cup of tea... that's too bad... actually, check that... that's pretty fvcking funny. :hihi:

Uh huh... ?What are they called again? ?Thats right, Guns N' Roses. ? ?You dont like the comparisons write to Axl and get him to change the name to something else.

Axl is bitching about being the only one maintaining Gun N' Roses history.. ? Ya sure... ? ?

c'mon. seriously, how can you compare CITR,TWAT to November Rain, Estranged, Don't Cry, Civil War, So Fine, The Garden, ...
or
Better and IRS, to Paradise City, Mr Brownstone, Nightrain, It's so easy, ....

they are not in the same league.
I agree, CITR, TWAT, Better are better than VR stuff, better than Coldplay, better than U2, but I believed when they used to say that this will be a new music revolution, a leap forward, ...
I imagined it would be the same quality of UYI, comparable to Led Zeppelin's 4...

I've been a fan for years, and I've been around these forums since 2001, and I am still here. I hope that the songs have evolved, but I think that the concept is the most important thing in a song, and that any studio work, touch up, or any other thing they might do in a studio cant help it be great, but just a little better.

the thing that gives me hope is the fact that they wrote about 80 songs, and that these might be the "fillers", but recent Axl's interview worries me. he said that "blues", "twat" and "better" are his favorites, and let's face it, they are just another song. nothing people will remember 20 years from now.


I also think that Slash wouldn't have helped and that the Finck is doing a good job.

FIND ANOTHER BAND .. AND GO AWAY :rant:

SHUT THE HELL UP  :rant:

It's his opinion that they do and it's YOUR opinion that they don't. Can we just leave it at that? Hmmmmm????

The only way these songs would have made it is if Axl had written them when he was like 9 years old. ? It took him 15 years to write these? ? gawd

Dont Cry was wrttien before AFD came out and wasnt on it. ? You still really think these would make it.
A hater? ? How do u figure? ? From what I have read I am the only one to start a thread about how the new material is NOT up to par. ? When did I say I hated it? ? ?I hate Axl fan boys though, that love anything he has done. ? ?

if either of us could leave it alone, we would never come back to the forum ;D
instead of coming here for years :no:

So Fine is not even in the same league as TWAT, CITR, Madagascar or the blues. That is laughable even bringing up that song title.

Nov Rain and Estranged are a given as better than the new songs no one is even disputing that.

As for patience and Dont cry, CITR and TWAT are both just as good if not better than those songs and the same goes for maddy and the blues.

As for IRS and better i would take them over its so easy and nighttrain anyday. Again WTTJ and PC, and SCOM no one ever siad they ?are better.

As for these songs being songs ppl were remember 20 years from now how do you know that? Do you have a time machine?

At very worst most of the new gnr songs are better than 75% of the old gnr songs. All of them would have made past albums and been some of the best songs on the album it made. So stop kidding yourself.

You keep trashing these songs saying you're disappointed and dissing everyone elses opinions by stating your opinion as a fact... Ex. "not up to gunners standards". Maybe to you, but you can't speak for everyone. Btw, calling people who likes these songs a fanboy generally makes you look like a hater... Just saying.

I agree almost 100 percent with that. ?It would have been nice to hear something a little different with Robin writting some of the guitar work, but his work dosnt really stand out. ? ?You could replace him with anyone I think and still get the same effect

It is up to par and its way beyond par. I think I know what the problem is. Axls new stuff is way too over your head and that is why you dont like them. Lke I siad before, I dont want a bunch of men in their 40s singing about getting laid, high and drunk, maybe you are into that but most people are not. I liked how Axls songs have evoloved and are grown up. You take the lyrics to CITR and they blow away 90% of the old gnr stuff.

Slashs work in VR didnt stand out and if he could not do it for VR how would he do it for new gnr esp since they are songs he did not want to work on the the first place? Answer that simple question for me.

we listen to gnr, but its not the same gnr.

So Fine is not even in the same league as TWAT, CITR, Madagascar or the blues. That is laughable even bringing up that song title.

Nov Rain and Estranged are a given as better than the new songs no one is even disputing that.

As for patience and Dont cry, CITR and TWAT are both just as good if not better than those songs and the same goes for maddy and the blues.

As for IRS and better i would take them over its so easy and nighttrain anyday. Again WTTJ and PC, and SCOM no one ever siad they ?are better.

As for these songs being songs ppl were remember 20 years from now how do you know that? Do you have a time machine?

At very worst most of the new gnr songs are better than 75% of the old gnr songs. All of them would have made past albums and been some of the best songs on the album it made. So stop kidding yourself.

I really hope you are right, but I seriously doubt it. the new songs will only bring missery to the GNR brand.
I will enjoy all the new songs, but with the informations I currently have, I don't think the album will do all that great.
do you actually believe that the album will get good reviews, because I seriously doubt it.

Read the bellow and tell me that is not an Axl fan boy!

All I can say is... ? Your an idiot.

These are just demos right? ? You will seriously be cumming in your pants when this new album comes out, it is everything you want.


Well you are right a bit. ? I would be more into songs about drugs and chicks and breaking the law. ?But I guess that is why AFD is my fav album.

First of all I cant even hear most of the lyrics to judge them, but if they have evoloved so much that an average 26 year old male cant relate to them, well then they are in for a world of trouble

"you are one pathetic loser" :hihi: thats all im gonna say.

Yeah the new gnr songs are so bad that the demo of IRS made the top 50 played songs for a week, the first time ever that happened to a demo? ::) And who cares what reviewers say AFD did not get a lot of good review either, so what does that tell you?

they would have played axl taking a shit just to piss him off.

Well I agree with you, Slashs work on VR didnt stand out. ? Whats your point?? ? ?

I said that Robin could have been replaced with anyone... ? ? BECAUSE, his work seems just average. ? As you said, dosnt really stand out.

This is Guns N Roses Version 2.0 and this is Axl Rose version 2.0

Axl Rose version 1.0 was a young buck with an attitude and a big chip on his shoulder that was having fun being young while riding the nightrain. While on that path he ruled the rock n roll world, did whatever the fuck he wanted, took now shit from anyone, and eventually loved and lost...in time he got a little older and a got a little wiser.... and I'm sure has mellowed out a lot since then.

Axl Rose version 2.0 has decided to let us hear about what he loved, what he lost and how he feels about it and if you ask me the lyrics on these new songs definitely show a lot older/wiser/mature Axl....

I love the new tracks... Axl is writing from his soul.... and there is nothing more beautiful than that.

people say that the new songs are more complex...
just compare the lyrics to november rain to twat or citr.
its ridicules.
TWAT and CITR only repeat the same line 15 in a row.

Bingo! You just hit the nail on the head! His/Her comments about axl writing this stuff at 9 years old proves that point. Alot of people(especially young people), are too young or just immature to what Axl is trying to convey in these songs, and these types of people are too closed minded to understand the songs, so they resort to bashing instead. Just stop responding to their shit, dave. If you dont give the loser haters any attention, they go away. Or they go to the VR section. Either way, we wont have to see them. : ok:

piss off. i know where you live. anyway yea those demos own  :hihi:

What the hell are you talking about?

Here are the citr lyrics
how do the lines repeate 15 times?


Catcher in the Rye

When all is said and done
We're not the only ones
Who look at life this way
That's what the old folk's say
But every time I?d see them
Makes me wish I had a gun

If I thought that I was crazy
Well I guess I'd have more fun
Guess I'd have more fun

Ooh the Catcher in the Rye again
Ooh won't let ya get away from his gun
It's just another day like today

You decide
If I don't have to
Then they'll find
And I won't ask you
At anytime
Or long thereafter
If it's cold outside
I?m imaging
How it?s gonna be
All alone

(Solo)

Ooh the Catcher in the Rye again,
Ooh won't let ya get away from his gun
It's just another day like today

When all is said and done
We're not the only ones
Who look at life this way
That's what the young folk's say
As if they'd ever change
That's not whom I to say
But every time I'd see them
Makes me wish I had a gun
If I thought that I was crazy
Well I guess I'd have more fun
It's what used to be's not there for me
And ought to find someone that belonged insane like I do

Not at all (repeat)

On an ordinary day
Not in an ordinary way
All at once this song I heard
No longer would it play for anybody
Or anyone
That needed comfort from somebody
Needed comfort from someone who cared
To be
Not like you
Unlike me
And then the boy took that away
From me
So that it set the wheels in motion
Haunts our memories
You were the instrument
You were the one
How a body took the body
Gave that boy a gun
Took our innocence
Beyond our stance
Some type of moment
There we got it
All alone with her (hurt?) today

yeah right.
if something sucks then it's to complex for us "idiots". when you don't have a good argument then you guys use that old universal excuse... it's to "good" for "them"

I guess Novemeber rain, Estraged, SCOM etc... ? Where written useing some one elses soul?

Fact is Axl never really wrote any of the hard core songs, sure he wrote some, but the majority were written by the EX gunners. ? He hasnt grown up musically, he has always been there, he has grown out of touch.

Yes, I bet you would know how good the music was in it, being you probably needed a bathroom and KY Jelly after seeing it...

Axl wrote WTTJ. You know that right? He also helped write nighttrain, out to get me, pc, your crazy, and wrote rocket queen.
so how did Axl not write any of the hard core songs? And that is just on AFD i didnt even go on to UYI

dude this is getting lame, don't you have anything better to do than discussin this bullshit? if you don't like it, okay we dont fucking care... go register on a limp bizkit forum or whatever.. geez

axlrosehunny and torcida are gnr haters over at ebaumsworld.com

they have nothing better to do than bash new gnr and stallone forums ?:rofl: trust me this is true.

take a look at "TWAT" and youll find the choruses


it took 20 guys working for 2 days just to figure out what the fuck does all of those lyrics in CITR mean.
and don't go saying, it's complex. complex doesn't mean good.
some of the best songs in the world are simple.


here are the lyrics to the "shitty" patience

Shed a tear 'cause I'm missing you
I'm still alright to smile
Girl, I think about you every day now
Was a time when I wasn't sure
But you set my mind at ease
There is no doubt you're in my heart now
Said woman take it slow
It'll work itself out fine
All we need is just a little patience
Said sugar make it slow
And we'll come together fine
All we need is just a little patience
(inhale) Patience...
Ooh, oh, yeah

Sit here on the stairs
'Cause I'd rather be alone
If I can't have you right now, I'll wait dear
Sometimes, I get so tense
But I can't speed up the time
But you know, love, there's one more thing to consider
Said woman take it slow
Things will be just fine
You and I'll just use a little patience
Said sugar take the time
'Cause the lights are shining bright
You and I've got what it takes to make it
We won't fake it, Oh never break it
'Cause I can't take it

...little patience, mm yeah, ooh yeah,
Need a little patience, yeah
Just a little patience, yeah
Some more pati... (ence, yeah)
I've been walking these streets at night
Just trying to get it right (Need some patience, yeah)
It's hard to see with so many around
You know I don't like being stuck in a crowd (Could use some patience, yeah)
And the streets don't change but maybe the name
I ain't got time for the game
'Cause I need you (Patience, yeah)
Yeah, yeah well I need you
Oh, I need you (Take some patience)
Whoa, I need you (Just a little patience is all we need)
Ooh, this ti- me....

Well at least I dont use those gay computer icons. ? You are a real winner

Tells me radio today sucks.

What people need to realize too is that the new material is more complex... it's not just something a casual listener to is going to listen to once and think "wow, that song is amazing." The beat or lyrics may grab the listeners attention.. but it won't be unitl the 3rd or 4th listen until they really like the song........

I liked them all at first, CITR has really grown on me lately.......

and I think T.W.A.T needs a piano ending to co-incide with that guitar solo. ;)

Izzy wrote patience..........

if you'r coming to troll gnr boards at least know your gnr history....

besides I liked patience anyway.

You have heard SCOM right?
How many repeates are in that song?
Or how about the ending to PC? How many repeates are in that? OH but that is ok right?
You really need to get a clue. Its so sad.

Because Axl puts a chorus in his song you bash him for it, that is classic.

it was written by GUNS N ROSES. And if the new band is still called GUNS N ROSES, than I have the fucking right to compare it.

Well that joke went right over your head.. ? He was in his early 20"s when AFD came out, so if it took him 15 years to write better he would have had to have written it in rougly 1971. ?
Read the above, where did I use the word any? ? Are you telling me that Axls focus hasnt always been for ballads and long Epic songs... ? Dont kid yourself any more

That's why I was saying,  find another band , infact they could start a band together and call themselfs TA (Two Assholes} :hihi:
 

the "space" where he put the chorus in TWAT could have been better put to use, and if he evolved, then why is he going back to the AFD song counstruction?
SCOM is perfect as it is, and not one member of the forum will dispute that. while the situation around TWAT is diferent
(and I never said that twat sucks, it's better than most of the music out there today, but if it was on UYI, most of the people would't have noticed it)

Quote somthing I said. Axl wise. ?As being a hatter please

Izzt wrote patience.

They are entitled to their own opinion of the new material.

Axl doesn't need us to tell everyone the new guns n roses music is good, that will be proven when he is back on top of the rock n roll world sometime within the next 3-4 months. :peace:

Your logic is flawed. So tell me since dont cry, nov rain, ycmb and back off bitch were put on UYI in 1991 did it take the old gnr 5 years to write those songs eventhough they were all written in 1985 and 1986? By your flaw logic yes it took them 6 years to write those songs ?::)

You really need to go back and learn ?your gnr history.

agreed

(finally last post in this thread)

More powerful than Freddie Mercury's work (and voice) with Queen?!
So, is it better that Axl aims Chinese Democracy to a more industrial direction, than a "Queen-alike" direction?!
Hmmm.. ::)

IF he releases the album.... Touring won't put in at the top...

It's a GNR song, and that was never the issue, it's lyrics are superior to CITR's no matter who wrote it.

How do you know he has not added to it yet? TWAT is a demo from 99 or 2000 you know that right?
Even if he doesnt change it, I dont see anything wrong with it. Do you think the ending to the beatles song Hey Jude is bad because the ending is na na na na hey jude about 10 times?

I am going to end this right here, right now.

The new Guns N' Roses songs (leaks and live) are great. Axl is back.

Richard Nixon has spoken.

This thread can now be locked.

agreed X2 :peace:

Wow, that's amazing.

A) Do you really think that these songs have been worked on for 15 years? That's ridiculous. It's a known fact that a lot of new material was written after the year 2000, stuff that the band really liked.

B) This music isn't risky?! Please, define risky. Because this stuff is incredibly risky, coming from a guy stereotyped as a "rawk n' roll" frontman.

C) Axl NEVER said that he was making an industrial album - You just assumed this along with all of the other schmucks out there who heard Oh My God and My World.

D) That comes down to personal preference - I think he sounds terrific, considering his voice is always at the back of the mix in these songs.

same way as you know that he did. and at this point we're commenting on the version I've heared so far, and not the one Axl could have recorded.

FOR FUCKS SAKE.HERE WE GO A FUKIN GAIN :rant: :rant: :rant:WHERE DO THESE IDIOTS COME ?FROM

Uh ya...... ? What is your point? ? My history is perfect.

Oh ya, by the way, not to be an asshole. ? But this thread is totally of topic, it was ment to stirr some debate over the new gunners material, not a so called ill-fated history debate. ? ?Isnt that why they are in court right now? ?Over history??

I dont think the new stuff is up to gunners standerds, simple as that. ?And I hate Axl fan boys...
Ya that makes no sence

So by your logic hey jude sucks because of the ending right?

SORRY DUDE. YOU NEED TO KNOW YOUR GN'R HISTORY. izzy wrote the first part of the song but axl wrote the end which is the best part and why it was a hit in the first place.

at one point he said it would have an industrial feel to it, and we tought it would be more industrial because od silkworms, chinese democracy(the title track), omg.
also people who were in the band 97-2000 are from electro/industrial domain(nin, perfect circle, pumpkins,moby,...)

No he didnt, what are you talking about? Izzy wrote ALL of patience, and the version that made lies isnt even the real verse. Izzy wrote patience then lost the lyrics so the he had to write it again and changed a few things. Axl had nothing to go with the writing of patience.

I'm pretty sure Axl said he wrote the last verse of Patience, it's in an interview somewhere.

it doesn't suck, it's a good song, but it lacks something for it to be NR great. It's not my job to figure it out, it's Axls, and who ever the hell his producer is right now.
we have a saying... (loose translation, but you'll get the point) "I don't know how to make cookies, but I can tell when they are good and when they suck."

I like most of the new stuff, but haven't heard anything I'd put into the all time GN'R Top 10. ?Granted, I know these are all demos, so I somewhat have to reserve judgement until I hear the final mixes. ?I never heard the Appetite demos either, so I really can't compare them to what they evolved to either.

The one thing I noticed so far is there hasn't, in my opinion, been a song that just grabs you at the beginning and gets your attention like the opening notes / riffs to Jungle, SCOM and Paradise City. Those songs just kick your ass from the very first note. ?I like most of the new stuff and am all for a modern, ambitous sound but am really waiting and hoping for an all out, aggressive rocker that just kicks you in the ass. ?

o.k mr. insider. i will tell you that i have a record with patience on it and also axl being interviewed by del james. in this interview he said that he wrote the end part...i've been walking.....etc. but what do i know. i'm dumb and you know everything. : ok:

nice job!!! : ok:

Yes I think these songs are the BEST of what has been worked on for the past 15 years, why would he want to release anything but

I dont have to define "risky" but Axl dors. ? ?He was the one who said they were going in that dirrection

Axl did say in a RS interview that the new album would be more industrial influenced.. ? I take that as an industrial album, with rock over tones.

You are right it is personal prefference

Axl said the first album will have some industrial songs on it while the 2nd would be mostly industrial. That is what I recall.

Well I am off.    Cya

I've enjoyed this thread!
Thanks guys, it was nice to discuss this with out the emotional outbursts and name calling that are usual to the GNR forums.
I hope there will be more threads like this : ok:


P.S. love the new songs, but not as much as I hoped I would.

good night...

I like the new songs, but I think Axl and Slash bring out the best of each other.  I wish they would both at least drop this lawsuit nonsense.

please ban this motherfucker

We'll just have to wait till the album comes out. ?You can't judge an album on 3 demos. ? ?Just because Axl said "blues, "twat and "better" are his favorites ?doesn't mean that those are the best songs. They may be his favorites ?because lyrically they mean the most to him. ?There are alot of people that like I.R.S better than those 3 songs and IRS isn't Axl's favorite. ? Slash hated Sweet Child O'mine . Did that mean the song sucked?? ? Just because an artist has his favorite songs doesn't necessarily mean that they are ther best or that they will be the songs that people will love the most. ? A lot of songs have become hits ?without the artist expecting it. ? Sometimes an artist's evaluation of his own material is not the best source for an opinion.

:hihi:

"axlrosehunny" is watching this thread :rofl: thought that motherfucker was leaving ...

(and i thought this was gonna be my last post on this thread, guess not)

GN'R records sounds like melting pot of?(my opinion!).

8 new songs: Led Zeppelin, Queen, ELO, NIN (no more Rolling Stones and Sex Pistols)
UYI I & II: Rolling Stones, Sex Pistols, Led Zeppelin, Queen (no more AC/DC and Iron Maiden)
AFD: AC/DC, Rolling Stones, Iron Maiden, Sex Pistols, Led Zeppelin
LLaS: AC/DC, Rolling Stones, Iron Maiden

Evolution?

And a possitive evolution at that....  : ok:

Did you really need to create a new thread about your opinion on the leaks? Use the appropriate, existing threads.