Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Why the fuck are they playing all these foreign festivals and doing nothing here in the states?  I guess they say jealousy will eat you alive and it's definately getting to me.  I mean c'mon I want to see them too, without having to fly halfway around the world to do it.  Just my personal rant, anyone else feel the same?

Partly due to perhaps showing Clear Channel that GNR will show up on time.  But thats my theory.  Mainly because Europe has all the good festivals in the summer.

After the last tour, whatever happened, they probably aren't on great terms with Clear Channel, their concert promoters in the US.  Another thing is that in Europe the fans are more open minded and willing to pay to see the new GnR

They will eventually come over to the states, just give them time. ?They want to make sure the new album sinks in here before they start touring. ?

too many haters in the U.S.

That and they want to be at the top of their game when touring in the USA :yes:

That might be true. ?Sometimes I think the U.S. audience is pretty fickle when it comes to seeing bands change. ?I've lived in the U.S. my whole life and there are very few GNR fans from the old days that are still GNR fans now. ?Nevertheless, I think that the U.S. audience would warm up to the new GNR lineup in due time. ?Maybe if GNR relases CD first and then tours, the U.S. would become fair game. ?

I'm very jealous that GNR is playing in Europe - but it's great news for all GNR fans nonetheless. ? ?: ok:

because europes where its at!!

the advantage of playing festivals is they get to preform to a much wider audience and get greater exposure, and besides most of europe missed out last time

Europe's the place to be  : ok:

America has never had the kind of festival schedule that europe has , probably never will
what do you do, go on a tour and play for 10,000 people a night in the states,
 or kick it off playing huge festivals in countrys that still love and support rock n roll
america has to forget about this whole Gangsta mentallity hip hop dance shit
and realize that whiggers are white people, and they did not grow up in the ghetto
this is not your culture, stop supporting this lame excuse for music, and get back into your own culture and support rock n roll? ? :beer: :beer:

Most of America missed out too. Whatever happened to the rumors with Ozzfest?

I think GNR should start with a canadian tour... :hihi:

Remember that there were suppose to be a European tour long time ago, but it got cancelled because of Buckets "internal bleedings"....

 ;)

And if Axl and Co don't show they will have somebody to replace them that night................

Insurance is a good thing.

Where is America anyway? Is it in Africa or Asia?

I just want to see Axl show to all these dates before I get excited about anything.

Based on his history, his chances are poor that he will show to all of them.  :P

Hey America, maybe Europe IS THE SHIT?  : ok:

Now that's the smartest post I've seen all day.  I would not be quitting my job and maxing out my credit cards to get tickets to a GNR concert at this point ...

AMERICA MUST PAY FOR EMBRACING RAP ALL THESE YEARS  :yes:

It wasn't all of us, just most of us :crying:

2nd best post today :hihi:

I think I pretty much said the same thing in this thread earlier

Sweet ;D

Toronto, then Hamilton, then london, ontario, then ottawa, then Toronto again then windsor ;D

awesome : ok:

Thunder Bay is pretty big...  :P

Where is the love for Guelph?

Lollapalooza in the summer in Chi-town anyone???

Sorry, sorry I was getting selfish and posting places close to me and my freinds (So i had a free place to stay :) ) but i could make those trips too. : ok:

Maybe they should start in the maritimes and sweep across canada for a 100 show tour :smoking: :beer:

that's what I'm talkin' about :yes:

because axl can only do the no album thing overseas, that shit doesn't fly over here, plus the lastt our was fucked who knows who is going to support them this time around.. believe it or not taking on axl rose and some other band is a huge risk that could end with major lawsuits if he decides not to show up

that could be awesome.. if the album is out they should do this. i'd be ALL over it!

umm if you wanna know why not america go listen to what people are saying about the new stuff on WAAF...

I think a canadian tour is an awesome idea. This is coming from an American, though being in Buffalo,NY we may as well be honorary Canadians. The crowds for both the concerts and the wrestling events that I go to, blow the majority of the US crowds out of the water.

Pearl Jam did this last year ( a cross-country tour of Canada) and they were extremely successful.

how is that possible, these are the greatest songs since slice bread :-* 

not getting great reviews?

Screw the Slash fans, they just need to learn how to accept reality.

indeed, but people should get over other people's reaction to the songs also...who cares what anybody else thinks about a fuckin DEMO........rock on and dont bother......pleeease  :beer:

Canada really is the best place for concerts....
Everyone loves doing Canada!

Foo Fighters did their DVD in Toronto and it was probably the best show I've ever been to....
The crowd was going insane...

i think remember the US not enjoying GN'R Live in 2002 except for MSG the rest of the venues had poor sales all over. so i guess that might be a reason. and all the awful reviews in the US didn't help. besides the first leg of the 2002 tour was amazing. both for crowd reaction and for reviews, so i guess they miss a warm audience and people who actually care.

why is it that anyone who isn't fond of the new songs instantly has to be a slash fan or someone with no taste musically? Can anyone just not like the songs, is that impossible to just not like them...? Not everyone sits around allowing them to grow on them or gives them 25 listens..

I have passed the links to many forums, had a few people listen and not everyone likes the songs.. Why does anyone care what others think.. Imagine people who like slash giving an opinion on gnr tunes :hihi:

I wasn't trying to say that only the Slash fans didn't like the new songs, but that is where the majority of the complaints are coming from.

Well he's my favorite ex gunner and I like the new songs.. I'm not as dramatic as those giving them a 25 on a 10 scale or throwing out my afd /illusions do to them, but i giv ethem a  : ok: :beer:

Actually, the roots of rock n' roll are with african americans....but I digress :)

I have to admit that I miss Slash too but I am just very excited to hear Axl again.

Also All of europe is smaller than America. so its easy to go from like france or england to germany, whereas not so easy say to get from tennessee to texas

it's quite easy to go from tennessee to texas :hihi:

I think you hit the nail on the head.....in addition to being a warm up for the states (he HAS to tour here eventually), the european fanbase has been very very good to Axl and have showed him nothing but love.  Us Americans are very fickle, we love our heroes one day and hate them with a passion the next...very short memories.  Its not what have you done for me lately, its what have you done for me TODAY.  Why do you think there hasn't been a big band or even a type of music in the past 20 years....grunge, gangsta rap, techno, emo, ska...they are all 2-3 year fads -- we are a very ADD society. 

I hope he kicks ass over seas and fine tunes the mistakes he made in 2002.  And yes, the MSG show was amazing :)  I wonder if the days of arena rock are numbered though....other then festivals I can only think of a handful of bands that still sell out major arenas (U2, the stones).  I think if CD is released and gets favorable reviews, they can get back to that level. 

He really does need to cut down on the cancelled gigs though and the riots and what not....this really will be his last shot at salvaging his concert reputation.

What about calgary?  or vancouver?  you guys from ontario think you're the only place that matters in canada?

I just think the 2002 tour in the usa was run like shit and the band acted like they didn't even care publicity wise.. CD world tour with no album or music during a comeback.. ?Not the best idea, this isn't 91 where you can tour because you are still highly in demand..

^^^totally agree, like i said, i hope they learned from their mistakes.  I also think it'd be good to space out the shows so axl can rest up his body and more importantly his voice.  If they don't open in MSG (or philly to say I'm sorry?) I think they're nuts.  start it off with a sell out and a great review (NY will show nothing but love).

would be cool to see them first.. :yes:  I still wish they didn't waste a closing of a vmas.. That was a great start last time.. If axl gave kurt loder some concrete time period the world would have seen that interview 500 times

I think he ment from tennesse to ALaska :hihi:

Because TN and TX are pretty fucking close :peace:

Is there anything coming up that could give them another jumpstart like that?  Hopefully with a better performance by Axl this time ;D

That and most Europeon music fans still appreciate good rock/metal unlike the vast majority of goofy shit that makes waves here in the states. ?I respect Europe alot for that.

No disrespect to you Shuffle, but I highly doubt Axl gives a rat's ass about what Clear Channel thinks.

If and when they do come to the states, they should do smaller gigs rather than the arenas. ?And when he gets to NYC, make it 3-4 shows over the course of a week or so.

And whoever does the schedule should make sure he goes to Philly 1st, than NYC, when it's reversed, he seems to get distracted :rofl: :hihi:

Philly deserves it more anyway.

Havnen't you always heard, "Save the best for last"

lol Texas to Detroit then :P I don't know American geography at all.

besides it's prolly close to an 11 hour drive cuz from Ontario to Kentucky takes that long and it looks about the same distance from Gatlinburg (sp?) to Dallas or Fortworth :P

Yes :hihi: Just kidding.
If they do come to Canada they should play at least three shows.
Hamilton,Toronto and repay Vancouver for what happened in 2002.

But why should I suffer...?  :no:

Well, you're not crazy about them and you're a contraband fan  :hihi:
Face it, if someone doesn't like axl there's a big chance that someone is yelling WHERE IS SLASH ?? :P

But I do like all the songs, just some more then others.. I don't do crazy anymore, it would take a lot for me these days to just slobber on some song like I once did..  Well you should have seen me at msg, I didn't sit for a second..

I will not say that some slash lover won't diss an axl only song, but I will also say many people just dion't like axl rose to begin with

these are just random people.. I think older bands sometimes just get that when they make a return..

And some people just don't think the new music is all that earthshattering :peace:

It doesn't really matter whether Axl cares or not. Clear Channel controls a very large percentage of US concert venues, if not the majority of them. They have to be shown that the band can be counted on.

It's smart of whoever to not have GNR play America.

Nobody here cares & most think Whaxl is a 45 year old whigga! :hihi: :rofl: :hihi: :rofl: :hihi: :rofl: :hihi: :rofl: :hihi:

And to think, I started this thread for at least semi-intelligent conversation.

BRILLIANT post  :rofl: :rofl:

People will be too judgemental in the US, here in the ROTW (The Rest of the World) we like to go to a concert for a good time!

Sorry it's not what you want to hear, but IMO, it's the truth. Most sane people in America put Axl in the same class as a Mike Tyson or a Bobby Knight. People who were once great at what they did, but are now way past their primes & more than a little crazy.

So, it's a good idea to play other continents where Axl seems to still have some credibility.

I kind of agree. I think the band can get back to a higher level of popularity in the US if the album is good and if they can actually show up for their gigs. But it's been too long and lots of people have forgotten about them or are too young to even know about them. It's going to be an uphill battle to regain the US fanbase.

Why don't we have any big festivals here in the States?

So do the peple here in the US, typically that means having the band show up

rock is more or less dead in the states -- if you had a ton of bands play in a festival it would either be a bunch of bands with small followings or a bunch of has beens who nobody cares about anymore

and the last BIG festival we had here led to a massive riot with tons of damage (woodstock).  Us Yanks know how to party! haha

What about Ozzfest?

Ozzfest works for me :)  Will GNR headline though?  Will Axl want to be underneath someone elses umbrella (ozzy).  I don't see him doing it.

A solo tour with an opening act gives him more flexability to do his own thing, which we all know he loves to do.

Ozzfest might draw in bigger crowds than GNR could on its own (for the time being). But I'd rather they do smaller venues and work their way back up. I hate sitting through a bunch of other bands and the shortened sets.

Ummmm, ahhhh, Hey, how 'bout Women's Olympic hockey team? And our Men's team today? ;D Go Canada Go!!!

seriously though, all canada matters. I meant that they should do those places whilst touring Canada. And for sure they should set the record straight in Vancouver and Montreal. : ok:

I think Axl will tour america when C.D is out. I think the album will be a musical revolution. Amercia the way I see it has the chance to se a better performance than Europe...why? Because in this early gigs lots of things go wrong.."sound wise" and with all this new technology GNR has probably it will be a little time before they get used to it or able to control it perfectly in a live situation.

I think with Ozzfest they can play maybe a max of 1 1/2 hours and in my opinion it just wouldn't have the same "feel" seeing Axl at Ozzfest. ?And could you imaine the clash of egos between Sharon Ozbourne and Axl? ?My God it would be Nuclear. :rofl:

Yes, but it would be entertaining.

I'm sure Axl will do the first actual tour dates in the US. I think these festival dates are just warm ups.

Also, Europe is the place to be in summer, this continent is beginning to own rock music from May - August, and those festivals are not only becoming recognised as the real deal, but they are also affordable, and fans come in truckloads to watch the bands....

...fuck, even RIR has moved to Europe.....US can be done during the rest of the year as well, its not so important to risk European appearances during this time just for the sake of a show in the states.

going to Europe now was (is) a good idea, and it will put the band back on the map....in a big way.

after that, he can do the states, latin america and asia...and perhaps even a show in africa.

because axl needs to show that he can show up to his gigs before any promoter books him on a us tour

ahhhh.....stiff shit. 8)....why not anywhere els!!!

your the foreiner to this site :hihi:

No I feel almost the opposite! How can you complain knowing full well that there will be US dates coming up, without a doubt. I'm over the other side of the world and very doubtful we will see anything and can't afford to fly ALL THE WAY around the world. So stop complaining  :P

bands today hardly ever start a world tour in the states, Europe and the United Kingdom is where all the best festivals are.
The US has nothing going for it at the moment anyway.

I think it probably is just due to the fact that the European festivals guarantee a massive crowd and he needs to build his reputation back up at the moment. ?

I have to say though that I find it a bit strange that so many people think the European crowd will stand for any shit from anyone and the reason GnR aren't doing America yet is because the Americans are less forgiving. ?I'm not sure there's any proof of that this time round.

Sure, the crowd at Leeds was absolutely massive, but you have to remember that that's the case for that festival anyway. ?It wasn't all hardcore Gunners and a lot of the people there were there out of curiosity and didn't have a clue that GnR were even still around. ?Festival crowds are huge over here and of course the majority of them are going to wander over to see that Axl still lives...it doesn't necessarily mean that they're any more or less accepting/forgiving of the whole situation than Americans are.

I also went to the Docklands gig in London and to be perfectly honest, that was nowhere near to sold out. ?I'd say the situation over here probably mirrors the one in the U.S. ?Hardcore fans are going to show up to pretty much everything but until the album's out and some promotion is done the crowds won't be huge. ?I can't really see much difference in the attitudes shown from Europeans to the attitudes shown from Americans toward GnR at the moment at least. ?

Yeah maybe they could co-headline with the 'ugliest man in rock' - Chad Krueger and his band Nickleback.  :hihi:

Gotta love the canadian rock  :P

quick! burn your copies of AFD!
Smash up any UYI discs you may have now!
Rip up your Slash posters!
We have all the Guns we need now we have Axls 2.5, ten years in the making, leaked demos!  :hihi:

the US is still stuck on Hip Hop (shit) n' Nu-Metal!!

just ask Anthrax :hihi:

Well said!

Because he doesn't give a rats arse what people think of him in the states.He's already wrapped up the market years ago ....now it's on his terms where he gigs etc.


I wouldn't bet on a large scale american tour.


Get your asses over to ballsbridge on the 9th june for whats gonna be the mother of all parties.

Fuck it's like pope john paul playin the phoenix park in 1979 all over again ..but this time i think pope axl will take to the stage a little bit later.....somethings never change :beer: ?

Europe is the best place to start.  You can work out the "bugs" before you come stateside.  Also after the last tour here in 2002 they need to release CD to have something to promote here.  I mean they can sell out NYC, Chicago, Boston and a few other arenas, but right now they would have to play smaller venues here until they get "big" again in other markets.  I would have included Philly in the arena market, but well I live in between Philly and Baltimore and listen to both rock stations in the area and Philly hates Axl right now.  He needs to do something for the Philly fans.  This is a great rock market and Axl needs to fix that.  Philly fans are not very forgiving at all. 

With all of these euro festival dates announced for the summer, I wonder if the next logical step would be a tour of the states right after.....makes sense.  In addition to all the ideas/theories people have mentioned for why Axl is starting out in Europe, I wonder if its also to avoid the competition with all the other bands who will be touring in the summer time (traditionally a big time for tours).  IF he does come back stateside for the fall, there def won't be as many big bands/festivals touring as in the summer. 

The answer is very easy;

1) Europes Open Air Festivals pull massive crowds during summer (May to September) --> 1 concert reaches about 35.000 to 100.000 Fans --> Get New GnR to the masses --> Publicity --> Boosting record sales -->After the pulled tour in 200X?! GnR still owe  the promoters
--> Eurpean Fans love their "old" Rock Heros

1b) Maybe even a few dates in Asia / South America will be added for the same reasons

2) Festivals bring in loads of money: Fixed contract, no risk, hardly any costs --> Also a good show (and showup) might repair credibility and prefinance the "real" tour later on

3) When the new GnR has been established on Billboard/ MTV / VH1/ Radio etc. after a couple of months people in the Homemarket (US) might give Guns another chance --> Since times for stadium concerts are over it makes perfect sense to start a US Tour in Late October/November till January/February

4) Followed by a world tour starting February/March 07

Is gnr comming to america any time soon?!!  :beer:

No.  :beer:

If I remember correctly, in 2002, the U.S. tour wasn't announced until after the tour dates overseas.  So, thats probably the same case as now.  But Axl has to come out with Chinese Democracy first, if he wants a successful tour in the States.

Regardless of whether you want to admit it or not the US market is probably the single most important market in terms of Chinese Democracy being a huge success or flop.

because the audience there suck.

That's exactly right. ?Bands goto Europe to get recognition and come to America to make it "Big". ?Please keep in mind that GN'R has scheduled no actuale concerts for Europe, they're just playing festivals which don't really exist in America. ?What little festivals do come along aren't worth the paper that the tickets are printed on for the most part here in the states. ?The majority of the bands at those festivals in Europe are bands that couldn't tour on their own. ?Europe is a cheap and effective way to break the new band in before they go on their world tour - which the majority of shows played will be in America. ?People forget how big America is, you could fit 3 europes in the size of American territory.

Wow, that's a real intelligent observation.  I'm sure you know this by experience.  Please do tell how the audiences in Europe are any more cooler or better than here in the states?

i hate to disappoint you mister nationality but they're playing in europe because the audiences are better and don't just sit around like idiots with their arms crossed like "c'mon, show us something". even axl said so. and yes they play indoors arena in europe too, i'm actually going to one of them. sorry to burst your bubble. now go defend cops beating up black people like you did in "the jungle", good day.

Wow, talk about taking things out of context.  No where did I suggest that Guns shouldn't play in Europe, in fact the exact opposite.  I agree with their strategy wholeheartedly, but I don't chalk up their rationale to some subjective belief that fans overseas are more hardcore and loving.  And what the hell do my comments (that you obviously distorted) on an American social issue have to do with GN'R?

It has nothing to do with Europe vs. America. It's how the markets have developed.

American audiences don't sit around. I don't know what shows you're going to where they do that.

European audiences are better. :peace:

Im not pro- america or pro-europe I like em both the same, but if Axl thought Europe was the shit and America sucked he would have moved there a loooooooooong time ago. Axl lives in the U.S

He leves in Malibu; Not exactly the real world.

You don't get more real than LA in California. Nowhere else in the state can you live in the most upscale area and go 4 blocks and be in the worst area. But most people wouldn't understand that unless they spent time there. I didn't get it until I moved there.

You are probably correct. My demographical knowledge of the area is somewhat limited. But I will venture with this- People that live in malibu never stray 4 blocks away to where you're talking about.

Even though I'm American... even I admit European crowds are better.... it's much more of a football (soccer) match or Oktoberfest type crowd... people are there to have a great time for 3.5 hours... not critique every note played or every visual, etc...

We're too stiff over here... too cool for school... I can't even think of the last US rock tour that had any buzz behind it...

Axl is smart to kick off abroad... and perhaps he should stay abroad until the promoters and fans are salivating to have him back in the US.

They don't, but where do you think the people who aren't as well off go during the day? They go to the same places the rich people go. Sunset, Rodeo Dr, etc... You may not go walk in a poor neighborhood but regardless of social class you're going to be surrounded by all walks of life just going to the store or picking up some shoes. You can't escape it in LA.

That's not to say Axl's in reality or not. I'm not in a position to say. I just don't think living in LA would mean he's lost it.

because you eat too many hamburgers?  ???  ;D

One, Europe has alot cooler festivals than the here in the US,

Two, and more importantly, after 2002, I don't think a concert promoter here in the US will touch Axl with a 10 foot pole.

Not only the the first and last shows but that tour didn't really sell that well as there were half empty arenas in all of the smaller cities like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, etc. 

He certainly seems to do a fine job when it comes to burning bridges...

Anyone think he's using the European stage as a way to prove the legitamacy of Gn'R. Both musically, and in the bands abilitys to actually play an entire tour?  :yes:

I think he's using the festivals to get out there in front of many people with minimal risk because his band won't be the sole attraction. We will have to wait and see if the band has the ability to play the entire toor.

I want to see an official concrete statement (and one from Axl) regarding these shows.

either that or get back into the public's eye again

It has nothing to do with which crowds are "better". ?How that misconception is getting propagated, I have no idea.

It has everthing to do with promoters, risk, and business. ?After the '02 tour, no promoter in the US is going to risk capital on a band that has no proven new material and a relatively recent history of cancelled shows/tours...especially one that was a questionable draw on their last tour (and we can argue the reasons for that somewhere else).

So, GnR goes over to Europe, and starts playing festivals (at least to start) where they are a very credible headliner. ?They are not being depended, entirely on their own, to put butts in seats, though they are a very good draw. ?Promoters over there are probably getting a decent deal on the booking, too, and are now taking much less of a risk since they have other talent to fill the day if GnR pulls a no show (since some of the production costs are consoliddated). GnR can branch out and do theater shows as the new material comes out (guessing, here), and compels more people to buy tickets based soley on them.

This gives GnR a chance to prove they are a good risk back here in the states, gives them a chance to get new material out just before, during, or just after the Euro tour, and builds interest in the audience, stateside, in a return later this fall. ?It shows stateside promoters that they're dependable, and will actually show up for dates, play good shows, and that audiences are showing up to see them...which, in turn, compels them to actually be willing to front the money for a US tour.

Something to remember, as well: ?In Europe, there is probably/usually one promoter per country to deal with when you book your show (which isn't to say each country only has one promoter..I mean that once they get a promoter to book the show, they deal with that promoter ONLY for that show and not others). ?That means more contracts to sign, and negotiations to go through for the band, but it means much less actual cash to front for the promoter, because they're only fronting for ONE (or maybe as many as two or three) show. ?In the US..that's not the case. ?Usually a larger conglomerate is going (like the former CC) ?to foot the bill for the whole tour. ?Much more capital tied up, and a much bigger risk for them. ?Thus, it takes a bit more to compel them into action.

because it's full of haters and naysayers.  :P

Couldn't agree more Pilferk.

Why are people so surprised..?

Didn't Guns play Europe before North America back in 2002...?  :confused:

As far as I know, many of them are owned by bigger companies.

EMA Telstar in Sweden owns Gunnar Eide Concerts in Norway, DKB/Motor in Denmark and Welldone in Finland.

EMA Telstar is owned by Live Nation.





/jarmo

Why not America?  Because Europe has all the awesome festivals in the summer.  End of story. :yes:

"Because Europe has all the awesome festivals in the summer."

true enough...and from a business point of view (IMO), I wouldn't insure him...if he plays a festival there's less of a risk of getting burned because we know the other bands are going to show up... :hihi:

Is the whole "playing ozzfest" thing a dead horse? I guess so....I really hope he shows up for you guys in Europe, that would be cool!

I would love for g'nr to come play in the states but I guess it really just depends on what axl wants to do and where he wants to go.

Someone will insure GNR for North America. Why? Because someone always wants to make a buck. If not CC, then another promoter. CC is simply the largest, but the nature of the business dictates that someone will step in. For every Philly, there's an MSG, for every Boise, there's an Albany, etc. Especially if there's a single/album out to help things along this time.

Agreed.  If Axl shows a good track record in Europe this summer, And have a hit album as well, then Axl will hold all the cards concerning playing the States.

come what about Saskatoon :hihi: :rofl:

They should play Yellowknife :hihi:

They have played saskatoon before back in 93 Great Show : ok:

Doesn't matter though i'm moving to london England anyway.... pretty good chance i'll catch them there in the next couple years

And still, you'd be dealing with one company, EMA, for those 3 shows (nothing in Norway, yet, right?)....not for 20 or 30.  Which means EMA fronts the capital from their budget ONLY for those 3 shows...much less money in comparison.

And even if you deal with another Live Nation owned company, you're dealing with a seperate contract and seperate budget.

I really dont think gnr playin the festivals in europe & stand alone shows(dublin) has anything got to do with proving they can show up & on time .As stated above another promoter would be more than willing to step in.

The reason is simply axl has learned the lesson of past ...is that if there is no album it's pointless touring in america ....it simply won't work but it will to a certain extent in europe .


All this leads me to wonder WHEN THE HELL DOES HE PLAN TO RELEASE CD.

Not true.? And stating it doesn't MAKE it true.

I've worked in a venue.? I know, and have known, promoters, big and small.? I know the way they operate.

GnR is going to ask for a buttload of money for a US tour, for the band, and for production.? They always do.? That severly limits the number of promoters that can do the job, because they have to have the cash to front.? In addition, GnR is not going to use some fly by night promoter, because they want to make sure that the cash doesn't run out or disappear.? Again, limiting the number of promoters, stateside, they can/will deal with.

Those promoters are big businesses.? They are smart businesses.? They know about risk management....and, given relatively recent history, GnR aren't a great risk.? They didn't draw particularly well on their last tour (and we can debate why elsewhere, though the lack of new material, new band faces, and lack of promotion have all been mentioned before) and they no showed 2 shows and had the whole tour pulled out from under them.? What sane business? is going to want to risk large sums of money on that?

So, now GnR have 2 choices: Accept less money, and probably a much "smaller scope" stateside tour (which is all they could negotiate, if that), to start off OR go over to Europe, make more money and get better production, prove themselves, prove they can draw, and let them get some new material out that might put butts in seats and come back and command the bigger dollars they want/need.

It's all about business.? Sure, not having new material is a big factor, too, but only in the sense that it makes them more or less of a risk to promoters.? But to dismiss the business side, or to believe that there is "someone else waiting in the wings" is not a realistic portrait.

I think following the 02 US tour.. Axl will go back when the album or single is out. I think he'll do the European shows and festivals as warm ups and promotion before then.

Guns N' Roses fans know that the original lineup brokeup in the mid 90s.? While the name GN'R has name attraction, anyone with an IQ over 40 knows it ain't the same GN'R that was huge 15 years ago.? In my opinion, Axl is going to have to go through the same promotion and touring that VR did to hype themselves up before they went on their big tour this past summer. 2002 prooved that Axl can't fill the seats he used to alone.? If he plays his cards right and gets the attention from successful shows at the festivals in Europe along with a successful cd release, he'll be able to seel out reasonably sized shows, 3-6k in my opinion, on his own.? When he can accomplish that is when promoters will book him for a bigger world tour.  Slash has just as much name recognition as Axl and he had to jump through alot of hoops before VR could book arenas on their own.

fuck europe.. I would write axl a check tomorrow for $500,000 to have him play in my back yard.  If you're reading this post Axl, I'm not joking.

LOL.? The question is...would the check bounce?? Just kidding! :)

How about 500k, plus travel and expenses for the band and their entourage, plus the rider requirements, plus the productions costs (stage rental, lighting, instrument tranportation, soundboard rental or purchase, etc), plus security, plus insurance (for the band, your backyard, the rented equipment, the attendees, etc.), plus relevant permits?? And you may have to give him a cut of any concessions you sell or give away, with a minimum gaurentee.? Ditto on merchandise. Oh, and you have to provide access for a certain number of his people to the show for free.? Add a buttload of other incidental expenses and contractual matters into the equation too...

what about axl's integrity ? how do you pay for that ?

guess he'd better book an acoustic show then...

How would playing a "backyard show" compromise his integrity?  If the OP was willing to pay, and be bound by, all the contractual agreements a normal promoter agrees to...who cares if Axl plays a private show or not?

You're assuming he'd want one

AND

You're assuming the band would do one.

I'd bet "No" on both those assumptions.

:)

haha.. if it gets the band to play in America, I don't care if he does an Irish jig for 3.5 minutes and waltzes back to the malibu mansion.  All else aside, I think half a mil is still a tasty offer considering he'd be playing in front of one desperately pathetic fan.

Id honestly say that GnR wont play the USA cos they cant find a promoter, Thats why they are doing the festivals, For the first time ever an american band will tour the usa last on the tour after they have proved they wont cancel.... Im expecting more dates..... worldwide but not the usa

plenty of european dates are not festivals bur GNR gig

ok..... you know what i meant.... dont pretend you didnt.......

I can't remember people bitching about the 2002 european dates... Why now? We know they will play in America - I mean, all the americas - anyways.

Um, they did the same thing in '02, didn't they?

Asia, Europe, VMA's, and shortly after announced the US tour.

Edited because Voodoo is right.

They didn't play in South America in 2002. In fact, they only played in Brasil, and it was in 2001.

hehehe but axl was in chile and in argentina enjoying his vacations  ;D
anyway I bet that 2007 it's the america time to kick some asses