Here Today... Gone To Hell!

[probably old to some, but new to me]

Hearing this interview with Slash and Duff:
http://mfile.akamai.com/1689/wmv/bmguk.download.akamai.com/1689/VelvetRev/velvet_wma_high.asx

...it seems that once Izzy departed from GnR, Slash and Duff realized that they used to relate to Axl though Izzy. Without Izzy being there, GnR was all but over.

You could say Axl tried to "fix" that problem by bringing in Paul Tobias but others weren't as receptive to the idea.

shit man Izzy left the band 15 years ago Slash 10 years ago and Duff 8 years ago lets move on at the moment old Gnr does not exist only new gnr lets get excited and wait to speculate on why they might fall apart :hihi:

PS cool avatar

During the interview they (Duff+Slash) agree that the new GnR isn't GnR, and i agree with them. The new GnR is not GnR,it's simply 1 person with some hired musicians. The new songs don't sound very GnR. Axl should have either thought up a new name for his band, as calling it GnR is missleading and unfair on ex band members.

the Avatar is kinda cool, thanks  ;D

OK guys lets try not to get back into the "new GnR isn't GnR" argument again.

But back on topic, I'm not trying to say S&D are lying or anythin but I kinda find that hard to believe. Maybe that was the start of the whole descent of the old GnR but I don't think it really had much of a direct effect, because Slash stayed on 5 years after Izzy left and Duff 7.

Hear Slash on Izzy in1993!!!!! (thanks  AMM :D )

"I love recording like this, means Slash. During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect!"


hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/art-199311-OK.html

Listen to VR and compare it to the new demos. Both sound like GNR, VR like appetite & Axl/GNR more like a modern UYI sound.

I think Slash was saying those things to brown-nose Axl, since Axl was already on a power trip and whatever they said would be bad news.  Why would Slash want Izzy in VR if that were the case?

Wow, you managed to bring Axl to that story. You're a creative person.  : ok:

ha! so because an intermediary leaves the whole band falls apart?!

there shouldnt be a need for an intermediary in bands! fucking hell.

the fact that duff and slash had to get their feelings and ideas to axl through izzy speaks more about axls detrimental ego than izzy being the one to blame.

thank you...

I can't stand listening to duff talk.... He sounds like steven adler with his 'ummm uh ah well ya know, its like, uh, umm,' I can't stand listening to him talk.

He was even worse when he was wasted

I think everyone, except Botaxl, would've like to of quit when Izzy did, they just didn't have the balls. Certain people had become accustomed to certain lifestyles & there was just too much money to be made by sticking around for the UYI tour(s). And yes, I would say it's fairly obvious that Izzy quiting was the day GNR died. It's corpse still toured, but it's soul was gone. Who ever would've thought that quiet guy playing rhythm guitar in the shadows meant so much?

i disagree. the demand for the old gnr is in higher demand then new material. i think its just a matter of time. no one will ever realy move on. u can lie to your self and get pissed when people talk about it n delete threads ( hmmmm) but everyone wants it just as bad as the other. some show it some dont. no one will ever move on. but i am counting the days to here the news on the GNR concert. who will be on stage in the band? will it be the same line up as 2002 or all new or he even original :hihi:. but what ever it is we all know AXL likes to keep everyone in the dark. hell know one can ever find anything out. just when u think u know the answer sudenly it exactly what u didnt expect. thats his style. but i think that GNR broke up cause of lack of control. not the drug's or drinks but GNR was so big and i realy blam it on Axl but what people think is what people think. Izzy left for his reasons which pritty much was axl. but i blam axl 99.9% and its 99.9% up to axl to make it the band it once was and the only way to do that is reunion. FUCK BUCKETHEAD. lol i love saying that.

Ha! You'll go down well here!

But to actually adress your post: I disagree man, if you asked every person on this board which they'd prefer, a reunion or a release of CD, I'd say the latter would hold a dramatic majority. And I'd have to agree, the GnR community has waited too long for CD for Axl just drop it and re-unite the original band. Hell a reunion would be something I'd be up for some time in the future just not before CD and the next VR. As for your theory on why GnR ultimately broke up, that's still up in the air, but I defy what you said about Izzy leaving completely because of Axl. Izzy made it clear after his departure that he left because the whole GnR circus, the media attention, the sold out arenas, was just getting too much for him. And one more thing, i recommend you actually listen to some of the new music available, and a few solo projects, before saying things like "Fuck Buckethead" despite his image, which I admit is a little out of place for GnR, Buckethead is an incredibly talented musician.

Yeah, we want to see what Axl came up with before a reunion.  Besides, we have 2012 to look forward to when they get inducted into the RnR hall of fame, whats another 6 years?

well i dont think a reunion would mean droping everything. axl as far as we know is the real part of gnr left. the people he plays with do there job and get a pay check. axl writes the songs its his vision. and i have only heard the demos but since there is no back up vocials and the songs still sound to me like they where in the begining stages i think axl has one hell of a fucking master peace comeing. and 3 CD's btw. the wait pays off. but aside of how kick ass rock n roll the new album is going to be. i would still rather have slash and duff n even matt join. but as u said the new VR album is coming. im just as excited over that album as i am over the gnr album. the fact is tho in my mind i would rather have Gnr back then have them split in to two diffrent bands. just the image of slash n duff in Gnr again. just imagin it. shit gets my blood flowing. but yeah i realy want the new VR album and i hope they lean more tword old school gnr rock n roll then "DANCEBLE" lol. altho its also been kill and contraband was thrown to gether realy fast so i can see why even tho it was great. i still think everyone one knows it could have been better.

but whos going to be on stage with axl in the coming months. i know buckethead is out. and im glade cause i never liked his style. and i havent heard all his stuff. but what i have it realy didnt catch my attention and when something isnt great to me, i dont like it. its easy to make music but its hard to make good music.

That post made no sense :hihi:

As for people wanting old GNR more than new GNR material... Well this place was pretty damn busy when the leaks surfaced. And when you said people will never move on. I did. ;D

I can see where you're coming from, but if original GnR did get back together before CD ?then I can't really see any other result than the abandonment of both CD and Libertad, I mean how could they be completed with the old GnR back, Axl working on Libertad, and CD being done from scratch with S&D in the line up? I really don't think that is a realistic scenario. And about the hired musician thing in new GnR, this discussion has been had before but for the interest of debate I'll through in my two cents: if the new GnR are merely musicians for hire don't you think they'd be off partaking in projects of their own and making more money and more of a reputation for themselves than being in GnR with Axl? Now I'm aware that the current members do get involved in other projects such as Tommy's solo album and his dates with SA and Dizzy with Hookers n Blow etc. But that's strictly on a GnR comes first basis, and is hardly earning them a reputation as ground breaking music talents. if Axl wants them back in the studio or out on the road they're there, that to me is committment. I agree with you after that for a while, I also believe Axl is sitting on a real masterpiece, and would also love to see S&D back in GnR, in the future, as i've previously stressed. And the VR "danceable" thing I have expressed my views on in another thread, to sum it up I basically believe that by "danceable" they are refering to groove based RnR ala Mr Brownstone.

As for who will be with GnR during the tour I'm going on the assumption that it's gonna be the 02 band minus BH: Axl, Finck, Fortus, Dizzy, Tommy, Brain, and maybe Pittman.

yeah thats realy who i expect to play to but i all i have heard is axl roses Guns n roses. or axl rose will perform. i havent realy read any statment say whos going to be there. so i dont know yet. but who knows maybe its a whole new band. the 2002 tour was cut realy short. only like 12 or 15 gigs where played i think. might be conflict. but who knows what to expect. im just hopeing that GnR looks Like GNR. not a circus or goths and people that think there artistic my shavieng half there head or whereing a mask.

I always felt Izzy's playing complemented Slash's playing well.

oh hell yeah Izzy was an amazing rythem guitarest. he knew the exact sound to play. he is rock n roll. duff n slash wanted nothing but to keep the band going. and im sure they wish it didnt end. but axl was to controling. and pritty much pushed them out. he was geting out of control. he has prolly grown up now looked back and went wow that wasnt even a big deal i cant belive it. ill say this tho. cliff burton is the only bass play that will ever fit the spot in metallica. and Slash n duff are the only ones that will ever fit the spot in GnR.

Yeah, you are right, but the point is that the original Guns began  to fall apart when Izzy left. Izzy was a mainstay and although he was quiet, his impact was huge. I think, and it is just an opinion, that Axl decided to go in new directions when he realized the band could not duplicate the old music without Izzy. He is really an under-appreciated song  writer.

[SURE_BUT] - Maybe putting up with Izzy the whole time produced the goods. If you think about it, once Izzy was gone, the band continued with old material, there never was any more material produced. That speaks volumes to me  ;D

 :hihi: Duff sounds wasted the whole time  :hihi:

It sounds like Izzy was always the guy axl could call on to bring him a dose of reality. A friend from childhood who could say "axl your being a dick dude! your way out to lunch on this one" and axl would listen. Axl loved izzy. he followed him from indiana to LA and searched for him for  like 4 months. You can't replace that no matter how big your ego gets.... yours roots are your roots.

Once UYI came out axl's head swelled like a huge fucking ballon. I'm not saying he is wrong. BUT he had his ideas and there was noone whom he respected enough to talk him down. He realized Slash's potential but didn't think slash had the comitment to the cause... (Which was a very long drawn out cause... and i can understand why slash left.. rock n roll shouldn't be complicated).

Because of where axl came from I think he trusts very few people to tell him the truth. And because of who he is and how he can help people's careers there are probably very few people who will tell him the truth. Izzy was the one guy who was pure and real to axl. So i can see how Izzy leaving totally fucked up the chemistry.

Axl is a musicaly genius.... But slightly mad I think. Its hard to contain all his ideas. He probably goes off and shows 79% genius but needs someone he trusts and respects to rein in on his GREAT ideas.

But he doesn't respect or trust many people.... or people will tell him what he wants to hear to save their jobs.... but in the end he know's he is only right 'so far' like 79%.. but doesn't trust or respect anyone to bring him the rest of the way.,.. THUS a 10 year project...

lets hope its almost done

79%? are you sure? not 78 or 80?

yeah, and axl's new band is from like 6 years ago ... :)

Do your ears work...or are you drinking too much?

If VR sounded remotely like Appetite Guns, I'd love them.  Problem is they sound like a generic version of STP, which somehow, is worse than STP themselves.

For the average gunner, VR possibly sound like GnR with out Axl. Axl being the important component. Scott's voice does nothing for me, so VR donot interest me.

I can only assume that STP fans adapted more easily to VR more than GnR fans, as they would have liked Scotts voice already.

I've never bothered to check out STP forums. Maybe some STP fans thought they got a good deal, getting Scott in a band with Slash, Duff, Matt. Maybe some STP fans prefered the original STP line up and simply see VR as the new STP, Scott + some hired guns. Only unlike Axl who kept the name GnR, Scott dropped the name STP in favour of a new band name, which i think is a good thing  :peace:

I posted the question on an STP forum. So far only 1 reply (Official STP forum pretty dead). STP fan 'Tom' writes:

"the reception to VR has been pretty chilly for most STP fans. I was a fan of both bands before VR formed, so I enjoy VR...but I'm in the minority here. The uninformed STP fans usually see Gn'R as "hair metal" and the uninformed Gn'R fans see STP as "grunge" ...but what I've noticed about both camps of fan is their disdain for VR.


Thanks Tom!  ;) 'hair metal' thats a new one on me  ;D

I think one of the reasons why UYI sounded different than the earleir GNR records was because you can hardly hear Izzys contribution guitar-wise on the records.  I remember reading an interview with one of the band members around 92 that stated that Izzy was hardly around during the UYI sessions because Izzy was pissed off that he was so light in the mix.  Therefore, Slash recorded alot of Izzys parts.  Izzy had a style of strumming that was very similar to Keith Richards, and it gave GNR a diiferent (and in my opinion a better) punch to the songs.  Izzy was a rhythm master guitar-wise.

During the interview they (Duff+Slash) agree that the new GnR isn't GnR, and i agree with them. The new GnR is not GnR,it's simply 1 person with some hired musicians. The new songs don't sound very GnR. Axl should have either thought up a new name for his band, as calling it GnR is missleading and unfair on ex band members.

the Avatar is kinda cool, thanks? ;D


Hey! They fuckin left GNR!!! Fuckin Velvet Revolver is up our collective GNR fans asses!!!

I think it's sad. He quit drinking in 95? Still sounds drunk ass hell :(

I posted the question on an STP forum. So far only 2 reply's (Official STP forum pretty dead). STP fan 'Yosi Cirlin' writes:


    quote:
    Originally posted by Dobadog:
    I have a question for fans of STP:

    Most people (at a guess) see the lead singer of a band as the most important component of a band. Now that Scott as leflt STP and formed VR:



I don't see it like this at all. I think there are some bands where a certain member may stand out more than another, but STP for me is not one of those bands. I found all the musicians to be equally important. I love the song writing of the Deleos as much as I like Scott's singing.

    quote:
    Originally posted by Dobadog:
    _Do STP fans see VR as the new STP



Certainly not. Its totally different musicians except for Scott. The music that VR wrote is very different. I do like Scott's singing, but I don't really like the music written for VR (and not because I think GnR is hair metal, I just don't like it). I love STP much, much more than VR.

    quote:
    Originally posted by Dobadog:
    _Is Scott + his new band seen as better than the original STP line up.



No. Not at all by me, and as far as I can tell, not at all by most fans on this board. Again, STP was made up of FOUR special musicians, not one singer. Scott doesn't equal STP. Dean + Robert + Eric + Scott = STP. I personally like the music written by STP much more than VR. I find VR's music thus far to sound like GnR with a new singer. This is not for me.

    quote:
    Originally posted by Dobadog:
    _Is Scott + his new band seen as worse then the original STP line up.



For me at least (and I think many STP fans) the answer is yes. But this is very subjective.

    quote:
    Originally posted by Dobadog:
    As a fan of Guns N'Roses i see Axl (lead singer) as the most importent component of Guns N'Roses. So on hearing VR i was kinda thinking VR were like Guns N'Roses only without Axl. Scotts voice is not for me, so i passed on VR.

    It has left me thinking that STP fans adapted to VR much more readliy, as they would all ready like Scott's voice, and maybe see VR as the new STP (Scott + hired guns).



Nope, I think you're pretty wrong here. As far as I can tell, most STP fans also passed on VR, because, like I said before, STP was four members not one.