Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Can Axl actually release the song titled as "Catcher in the Rye" withou J.D Salinger's permission? I had read a long time ago that Mr. Salinger does not allow his work to be used in film. I know this is different ,but does Axl need his permission? Also reading a bio of Salinger, it makes me think that he and Axl are a lot alike. Like Axl his early work became massively successful, which in turn made him weary of attention. Like Axl he became a recluse. And most intrestingly, there was a book he wrote titled "Hapworth 16, 1924" which was scheduled to be released in 1997. It caused a lot of hype; which in turn caused the date to be pushed back, and they're still waiting Salinger to give it to the publishing company.

 I've heard that Salinger owns all rights to 'Catcher in the Rye', including the title. This might give legitimacy to the rumour that this song wont be on CD, because Axl knows it will be like pulling teeth to get the rights to the name. To be honest, this song might never be released.

Didn't somone say that he was recently in new work trying to get some copyrighted stuff taked care of (premission to use). I believe the poster said it was for the MLK quotes, but I don't remember if everyone just assumed it or if it could have been for this.

Yeah. he is supposedly working on that. But I highly doubt he is successfull getting rights for this one. Only small chance he has is if Salinger is a GNR forum post whore and loves this song. He has swore to never let CITR be used, and he stuck to that all these years.

If worse comes to worse I'm sure Axl would just change the title.

I'm pretty sure you're allowd to sing the words 'catcher in the rye' - you can't copyright speach.. but useing it as a title might be different. 

would be a shame if such an amazing song is never released because of a title :no:

I agree. If Axl cant get the rights, the next time there is a Tsunami, hurricane, terrorist attack,etc., Axl should offer the track for some charity/benefit album, and maybe Salinger would let loose with the title under those sets of circumstances.

I don't really think the lyrics to this song would go with any of the circumstances you've mentioned. Perhaps his best bet would be if Slinger was a Beatles fan.

I'd call it Makes me wish I had a Gun, Nah, I've really grown to the name.  He could put it on as a bonus track that way its not listed officially.   :)  That would work if he never mentions the title or the lyrcis. 

I never said they did. I just said it would be an easier way to pry the rights to the name from Salinger.

Why not call it "The Catcher" Or "In the Rye".
Or "leaked song #4"

If Axl can't get the permission to use the title Catcher In The Rye I think he'll just use another title,I mean if he likes the songs and if he wants it on the album it would make sense to just use a different title. :beer:

Not a bad idea. If this gag order is ever lifted, someone should ask Richard, Dizzy, or Tommy about the status of this song.

I don't think the copyright for a book title applies to a song title of the same name.

I'm pretty sure Salinger has all rights to the name. Dont you think the name would have been used for something after all these years if it wasnt?

You can't copyright a title to a song... I'm not sure about a book though... but since it is a song with a book title I'm confused :nervous: BUT I think it would be okay. THere are many song titles, albums titles, and movie titles that are the same.... My bet is that is would be legal to release the song without permission : ok:

The Snatcher in the Pie?

what?  :no:

Its not a song. Its a book written by a very strange person that secured all rights to it many years ago. Lets hope Axl thinks it through a little more before placing your bet. : ok:

You cant copyright titles.

The book and its content, but not the title.

If I wanted to write a book about a baseball catcher and rye bread called "Catcher in the Rye", there's nothing stopping me.

Right its like saying Axl cant use the song title madagascar because there is a movie by the same name.

Yeah,I guess that's right,but I would never read a book a baseball catcher or rye bread,I dunno,I do read some strange books these days :hihi:

I'm pretty sure you can. Especially considering the fact that copyright laws were slightly different back then. Try it. Let us know the outcome.

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-protect.html

What does copyright protect?
Copyright, a form of intellectual property law, protects original works of authorship including literary, dramatic, musical, and artistic works, such as poetry, novels, movies, songs, computer software, and architecture. Copyright does not protect facts, ideas, systems, or methods of operation, although it may protect the way these things are expressed. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section "What Works Are Protected."

How do I copyright a name, title, slogan or logo?
Copyright does not protect names, titles, slogans, or short phrases. In some cases, these things may be protected as trademarks.

That 2nd one applies to CITR, its a title and a short phrase, which it states is not protected.

There's the answer.

CITR is not trade marked. Coke is a trade mark. CITR is not traded marked since its a book title. You cannot trade mark book titles or album titles. Why do you think people could use Chin Dem for an album title if Axl was already using it?

No, that's referring to something like "Disney".

You don't see any book with "Disney" in the title without "this is not endorsed by Disney" clearly after it.

It has to do with brand protection, as in if I wrote a book with Disney in the title, that might falsely appear to consumers as something produced by Disney.

If Salinger would have trademarked "Catcher in The Rye" as a phrase, you wouldn't see it used in the titles of thousands of books that critique and summarize it.


edit: beaten by dave

As I stated earlier in the thread, copyright laws were slightly different years ago. IF Salinger copyrighted the title itself, that copyright could not be taken away because of laws put into place after the copyright laws were later changed. If it werent protected, it would have been used by now. Either as a movie title, title of a play, by an amateur author looking for attention, a song title,etc. Many decades since its release, it has not been used yet. There is a reason for that. Obvious to me, but apparently not to you guys. Tomorrow morning after my doctor's appointment I will do a little research on Salinger, and see if I can find stuff related to this.

Then again they could always list the song as CITR.

I suppose this is an interesting question. In this case, I really don't think Salinger could stop GNR from using "Catcher in the Rye" as the title of a song, but I suppose it is possible.

I am pretty certain that Salinger would not give permission to use it, if his approval was required.

The song may have to be renamed if it makes the official album. ?They Might Be Giants wrote a song called Nyquil Driver which they had to rename AKA Driver for their cd because the name Nyquil was a trademark. ?They did not have to change the lyrics however, because that falls under freedom of speech. ?The title is a printed word on the cd jacket, and is therefore not protected. ?Weird loophole in the law! ?The same could hold true here. Axl can sing it, but it can't be printed as the title. ?A couple years ago, either Brian May or Marco Beltrami referred to CITR as simply "Catcher". ?I assumed they were just shortening the title for convenience, but maybe that has become the official title.

I agree. Thanks for bringing that up. I didnt remember them shortening the title when mentioning it. That might be how this issue has to be dealt with. Another way Axl could do it is change the name to just about anything, have it be a hidden track on the album, and dont list the title or the lyrics on the album. : ok:

Brian May said clearly "Catcher In The Rye" in his blog yesterday, when he confirmed his solos on the track.

Maybe he is like most people here and doesnt realize there are potential copyright issues involved. Only one way to find out.....






















:phone:  Mysteron? :hihi:

oh that was good, too funny!!!! lol

Didnt Enid Blyton have a book or story with that title also? Dont think its copyrighted.

Enid Blyton? What would that book be about? Lennon gets killed in boarding school?  :hihi:

Axl was in NY to work out some copyright stuff for Maddy (those quotes), so I guess he would have worked on CITR as well, sorting it all out legally. Don't think he is that dumb to just release something that could get him into another lawsuit. Management probably pointed it out to him as well. My guess is that it would be no problem to release a song with that title, or else Axl will change the title.

 :hihi:

I was thinking of something else, when I went to look it was buggar all like catcher in the rye :drool:

yeah, let's hope there's a Tsunami, or a hurricane or a terrorist attack.






 ::)

This is not a fact, it was just rumour. Also, I guess it's not his job to do that, he have Merck and lawyers.

they could call it "china in the rye...."

Billy Joel.."We Didn't Start the Fire".

"And the Catcher in the Rye!"

There's some precedent with musicians using the title, at least.

Given the way Axl uses it, I'm not sure Sallinger could/would object.

"Catcher in the Rye" is not trademarked.  It's not eligible for one, either.

Go for it.? The posters above are correct....

It's not eligible for copyright and it's not eligible for trademark.

The law is pretty specific..

'Catcher in the rye ' has been used as a song title by  numerous artists in the past,
As a post above stated, Billy Joel used it in a lyric and so did the Uk rock band magnum in their song 'sleepwalking',
these artists used the song as a song title:
Bloodhound Gang
Five Thirty
Pop Lolita
Sammy Walker
and too many others to mention , just look on www.cddb.com and do a music search by song title.

you absolutely CANNOT copyright a song title. You can't copyright an album title either. The Offspring could've called "splinter" "chinese democracy" if they had really wanted to and there really wouldn't have been jack shit axl and his lawyers could've done about it. Just like there won't be jack shit Salinger can do about Axl calling that song "Catcher In The Rye". It's also not the first song with that title.

What a dumbass. You know damn well that isn't what I meant when I said that. Then I guess I was wrong, although those are some pretty obscure bands using the title. Will the people here that squealed to Merck about the song leaks go squeal to Salinger? :rofl: Seriously though, I'll do a little digging on Salinger, and see if I can find any mention of Copyright. I know I heard about that somewhere.

The case of Salinger vs. Rose.   That would make some headlines.

Salinger is reputed to have a fleet of lawyers at his disposal to protect his work.  There really are a lot of parallels between J.D. Salinger and Axl Rose.  People have been waiting for "Hapworth, 1814" even longer than Chinese Democracy. 

 :rofl:

Or if a problem arises Axl can give Salinger the royalties from the song.  But at this point, I think its a non-issue.