Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I am as pumped as anyone for Chinese Democracy and the 3 leaked songs are all badass and i am sure the album will be awesome but there is one problem......Whatever happened to the bare bones bad ass rock n roll like Appetite or like early Aerosmith records that was such a big influence on the GNR sound.....I mean it has been 19 years since Appetite came out so its not like enough time hasnt gone by for Axl to reutrn to some stripped down aggressive rock.....Would be nice to hear some raw skin crunching rock n roll to make Velvet Revolver eat it

Axl doesn't think that music is "cool" anymore.

Thats what im feelin too

That middle part in Better sounds pretty rockin' to me :beer:

I doubt thats true....i certainly hope its not at least.

Yeah, i've been wondering the same thing myself.  Maybe its b/c hes 44 and has just lost the rage/fire he used to have.  Maybe he wants to show the world how hes evolved as an artist?  Keep in mind, we've only heard a few new songs.  of them, I think chinese democracy and IRS are pretty rocking songs.

Well, that's the thing - if you want stripped down rock, then listen to Velvet Revelver. They do it as well as anyone at the moment and imho, do that better than Axl can do with his new band. I would much rather listen to Sucker Train Blues, Slither and Dirty Little Thing than Chinese Democracy, Riyadh and IRS. The great thing about Axl was always his ability to do something different like epics and ballads, and even when he does hard rock like Better and IRS, there is always a twist its never straightforward. So if your looking for stripped-down rock Axl isn't your man. Besides my favourite GnR songs are generally the more complicated. Although my favourite ever is Paradise City, across between two and combined everything GnR were about. That kinda stuff never be matched by either the new GnR or VR.

Where's the rock? Are you kidding me? IRS, TWAT,  the metal portion of Better? There is plenty for everyone in these songs. I love the diversity.

Where is it?  It's dead man!  Although AFD is one of my favorite albums of all time, the genre is 20-25 years old.  music has changed.

We got 13 tracks to go

relax!

And a lifetime to appreciate them.

Can't wait for studio Madagascar.

^^ epic!

my only concern is that is will be too reminiscent of estranged (notice oven the video footage during MVAs had ocean water etc.)

Uhmm have you heard Better or was it My Favourite Pillow you downloaded?

Sure, Axl is working on a CD for years just to come up with another AFD record, so he can please a few left over mullet-heads living at Alabama!!

Real mature.

And It's because Axl doesn't have certain members of VR that he'll never make a record like Appetite so that's you knackered.

BUT Axl doesn't want to make another Appetite album anyway, that was written by a group of kids living on the edge.


It's pretty much certain Chinese Democracy won't sound anythink like Appetite that will never happened even if he tried so love it or leave it.

Better is more "danceable" to me then a true hard rocker.  The hard rock (dudes, stop calling it metal..that is NOT metal) middle part is cool, but doesn't belong in that song (along with the robot noises).  The song as a whole is DEFINITELY lacking the AFD/UYI attitude.  IRS and chinese democracy are much more rockin.

I don't wanna stray too far off topic here, but I think it's hillarious how people can classify this music as 'danceable.'  I couldn't imagine trying to dance to GNR - it's not dance music.  what type of club would you see this kind of dancing in?  what style of dancing would it be???

the closest thing to dancing for hard rock/metal is moshing, which isn't really dancing.

You can Dance to Welcome To The Jungle but it doesn't make it dance music.

That was my point...i was mocking Matt's comments about how he wants VR to be more danceable....GNR should NOT be danceable at all but totally kick ass and rocking - "better" is not that sound.  I'm shocked so many people love it so much.

have you ever seen anyone dance to it, or heard it played at a dance club for that matter?

how would you dance to it?  like slow turns, or disco style, or what? 

it's not dance music LOL

It's there. It's on tracks we haven't heard yet. On tracks that once heard a bunch of fans will die do to the rocking out factor. I swore Id never say this but.. Have a little patience.

oh, and you CLEARLY have never heard of "the toxic waltz"

 ;D

THE TOXIC WALTZ
 
Here's a new dance craze
That's sweeping the nation
It's called the Toxic Waltz
And it's causing devastation
You're jumping up and down
Like a psycho circus clown
Slamming with waltzers
All the way around
You get caught up in the whip
Thrown into a flip
You aim for someone's head
To stain the floor red
Give someone a kick
To prove you're truly sick
Bounce back from some blows
And blood runs out your nose                                 
Flailing round and round
And you're injury bound
Waltz it up!
The pit is it!
You can take your chance
On this rough new dance
If you dare!
To dive in!
There are some that try
But they don't survive
They don't hit!
'cause they're wimps!
And this exercise
helps you brutalize
With us!
Exodus!
 
(chorus)
 
Everybody's doing the toxic waltz
Kick your friend in the head and have a ball
Come on and do the toxic waltz
And slam your partner against the wall
Everybody's doing the toxic waltz
Good friendly violent fun in store for all
Get up off your ass and toxic waltz
If you hit the floor
You can always crawl!
 
Used to do the monkey
but now it's not cool
The twist and mashed potato
are no exception to the rule
So don't be a dunce
and dance like a runt
Just throw your elbows
with good friendly violent fun
don't start to cry
if you get a black eye
just dive back in
and give another try
but too much action
may leave you in traction
so you better get insurance
no matter your endurance

flailing round and round
and you're injury bound
Waltz it up!
The pit is it!
You can take your chance
on the rough new dance
If you dare!
to dive in!
There are some that try
but they wont survive
They dont hit!
'cause they're wimps!
And this exercise
Helps you brutalize
With us!
Exodus!
 
(chorus)
 
Everybody's doing the Toxic Waltz
Kick your friend in the head and have a ball
Come on and do the toxic waltz
and slam your partner against the wall
everybody's doing the toxic waltz
good friendly violent fun in store for all
get up off your ass and toxic waltz
if you hit the floor you can always crawl!
 
Get up on your feet
Don't look so obsolete
And thrash like an athlete!
Don't sit there on your ass
Don't look like you got too much class
you'll be harassed!
You know we guarantee
This is the key
So rage or get the third degree!
You begin frontal assaults
and start your somersaults
And do the toxic waltz!
Do the toxic waltz!
Do the toxic waltz!
Do the toxic waltz!
Do the toxic waltz!

You can dance to Rocket Queen too ;)

A little off topic but SCOM is played HEAVILY at college parties, including frats (ugh, not a big fan) and house/apt parties. I've heard it weddings many times too...Same with Paradise City. People play it because it rocks and people love to sing along with it. It isn't because they think they can grind with someone to it ?:D

Although the sounds of Appetite in rock is gone, I really think people would love to hear another Appetite style album from Axl. Well, maybe not everyone, but I know I would.

You may get some hints of Appetite but you're not gonna get another CD just like it.  The UYI albums were far different than Appetite and I'm sure if we ever get to hear Chinese Democracy it'll be vastly different than UYI's.  As Eddie Vedder would say "It's evolution baby."

Nobody wants Appetite Part 2 but like Aerosmith released a blues album getting back to their roots, The Chili Peppers are releasing a down and dirty punk funk album in 2 months going back to their roots, the Stones new album is harder rockin than anything they have done is 25 or so years so it would be nice to see Axl get back to his roots...Sometimes for bands to evolve they need to make  a pit stop to the roots from which they were spawned

It's 20 plus years since they wrote AFD. ?Why in the world would Axl want to re-write AFD??

I don't want another AFD and I certainly don't want another UYI.

I am more than satisfied with the 6 songs I've heard thus far. ?They are rock beyond "21st century rock". ?The guitars are roaring. ?There are actual solos in these songs.

The latest 3 are more than I was hoping for. ?I'm still amazed they are only demos.

Beats anything made since AFD.........in my opinion of course.

True, but it's kinda hard to get back to your roots when Axl is the ONLY original member left in the band.  The CURRENT band is just laying down its roots.

Loder: What have you been doing for the last six and a half years, since the last tour ended?

Rose: Trying to figure out how to make a record.

Loder: Ah, you already knew how to do that, right?

Rose: I originally wanted to make a traditional record or try to get back to an "Appetite [For Destruction]" thing or something, because that would have been a lot easier for me to do. I was involved in a lot of lawsuits for Guns N' Roses and in my own personal life, so I didn't have a lot of time to try and develop a new style or re-invent myself, so I was hoping to write a traditional thing, but I was not really allowed to do that.

Loder: What prevented you from doing, like, a traditional rock record?

Rose: Slash.





 : ok:

LOL i remeber that from a phone interview,  so true.

Oh yeah the leaks aren't rock they are Backstreet Boys style....  ::)   They are rock songs.  IRS has light parts that just bust into something heavy, reminds me of YCBM style. The leaks are amazing, they represent rock in all ways.

Look at Aerosmith, they aren't playing anything close to "Toys In The Attic" people get older and simmer down, people change, Axl said years ago that he didn't want to do another album like AFD.

i'd be disappointed if he did another afd
i want a complex record with epics...

That doesn't sound right Slash's music is definitley more like AFD than Axl's new stuff, i think Mr. Axl is making a false statement, he wanted to change the sound of the band and the other members didn't want to play that type of music, hence that is what you are hearing now with the leaks.

I'd like to see a combination of both, which we still may see when the album is released!

and rocket queesn, Sweet child, it's so easy, PC, i could go on

The genres pretty much hit a dry well, and VR is proof positive - Axl's smart enough to move on and make a rock record that incorporates tons to different styles to give it a fresh spin.

We haven't had a group like VR in a whils, so I think if anything it revitilized the genre. They simply rock!

What Axl is doing is much more unique & creative.

I like both bands. It doesn't always have to be VR vs Axl.

Doesn't that album still sell like 250,000 copies a year?  Didn't know the mulletheads in Alabama were reproducing at that rate.   ::)

Better, IRS and CD are all rock

If Axl was still writing the same music at 44 that he wrote at 20, I'd simply have to question his sincerity...That's the biggest problem I have with VR...Whether it's intentional or not, to me they're just emulating a bunch of hungry twenty-somethings.   
It's cool to listen to every now and again, but in my opinion, the music simply has no lasting qualities.  You may think Axl's "epics" are self-indulgant, but I feel like I've experienced something unique when hearing Axl's stuff.  It's why I'm so excited for CD...I get the same intensity from Maddy, Blues, Better, TWAT, etc..that I did from estranged, and that excites me...
On the other hand, those types of songs were made even more special by the variety of the material that surrounded them, so the sequencing and track selection is gonna be crucial for me.

Is it lacking or is it not supposed to be that?

If your looking to hear an AFD feel from this band and album...guess what...your DEFINITELY NOT GONNA GET IT...get it? That snot what this band is about or wanting to do. Case Closed

As for the Illusions... The Blues, IRS, and TWAT are Illusionesque as your gonnan get. So in reality so far we have 3 songs out of 6 that are gonna appear ont he album can be classified as old Gnr type songs. Then you have stuff like Madagascar,Cd and Better for a more modern and new direction feel. And as a fan of this band. Its exactely what I want from this album. I want a little mix of both. I want some songs that are new and fresh and soemthing I wouldnt expect from GNr and I also want the classic ballad/Illusion rocker....

Until you and any other person out there realizes that we are not gonna hear an all out simple AFD slezy rock song with that kind of vibe I guess youll never get over it...

what you will get is a new gnr type rock song. Might sound like somrthing old gnr might never do but will have the same spirit and intentions of any old sleazy gnr song...This band is gonna make music the way they want to...whether you agree or like it or not...if you cant accept that theres always another band...

and thats always been the gnr way...

Axl has aged. His sense of self expression through music is different than it was when they wrote 'Appetite'. He's an aged, somber, more mature artist, not a starving, alcoholic, ?rock'n'roll rageaholic like he was back then. You have to move with the times. I don't think Axl, at this point in time, with this group of people, is interested in recording "Anything Goes" or "Pretty Tied Up" again (not that those aren't great songs). That's why he's said that people will say some of this doesn't sound like Guns N' Roses...

IRS rocks hard, so does the second half of Better, so does Chinese Democracy

This reminds of the stupid fuckers who bitched and fucking moaned that there wasn't enough Suited Vader in Revenge of the Sith. There were 3 fucking movies already with him if thats all you want to see.

I already have Appetite and Appetite music if thats what I want to hear. Now...I just want more of this new shit...which is so very fucking satisfying.

I think Axl is past the stage in his life where we are going to get stuff like "It's so easy", "nightrain", "paradise city", etc.... he has evolved over the years. Also, it seems he wants to let us into his soul on some of these new tracks, and I don't think a lot of hard rock would co-incide with the lyrics. Although during "better" when the lyrics get more aggressive, the music also turns more agressive and it is almost perfect when that happens. It is my guess the transition will be more smoother on the finished product.

This is most certainly going to be a soul-bearing album.

I think axl's songs have their moments, especially the seconds part of better but I also believe there is that rocker vibe missing.. I have a feeling CD will be a lot of ballads in the november rain estranged type of way ( not saying as long or good)

Well the band did break up a good deal because of musical difference at that time so maybe this was part of the reason..

But it's definetly not like afd where song after song blew the doors off the place

Don't expect a rocker.

That thing (AFD) happened when it happened: Young, broke, angry, boozed up, on the street. It is a one time deal that kicked ass and changed rock n roll history.

Is anybody here the same they were 2,5,10,15 years ago? If you said yea, then you aren't doing too well. I am light years away from who I was 18 yrs ago, and  I'm sure Axl is too. One thing is for sure in life: Change. It will change, and so will you.

The music is almost ready to drop I think. I also think if anybody is holding their breath for some AFD part II, they will be holding it for a while. It ain't gonna happen.

The leaks I have heard have gotten me excited again, and I think there is going to be some great music. It may not be for all of us. If you don't like it, you can always keep listening to the old stuff, it holds up pretty darn well.

SLC.. said perfectly!  : ok:

This thread should be in the Dead Horse section...

Good fuckin GOD. Go buy contraband or the new L.A guns if you want that kind of Rock, cause Axl is NOT doing that Recycled genre anymore, and THANK GOD !

why do people act like axl rose is the only man that does anything new?  Gnr's influences were older bands like aerosmith so does that make afd recycled rock.. Putting sound effects into the music or keyboards or piano or whatever else isn't anything new or inovative.. it's all been done before.. Anyways if axl had done a afdish type album you'd all be loving it  anyways so no sence of even debating what way he goes..

What's fair is fair whatever type of record axl put out the gnr internet community would love it.. :yes:

I guess ac/dc is just some crappy ban dthen that doesn't want to change.. yet their fan following and constant radio played songs are huge..

it's really amazing how everyone puts axl rose on top of eevryone else like he's the only one with an idea of what is right.. he makes great music, but others do too, it may not be what axl is doing but that doesn't change the fact..

Axl kept evolving but by the tour after get in the ring the evolution was one big bloated mess..

I'll never forget the basic quote of the keyboard or drummer who was opening for gnr (faith no more) who said I don't know who's in gnr, dizzy tizzy tiddy horn section back up singers basketball coach a pilot and 2-3 mechanics..  I know the quote is fucked up but anyone who remembers it knows what I mean.. So advancing isn't always better...

Again I love the songs, but people should respect other's feelings, people here were into gnr before this so they expect a certain sound as well..

did I say Axl was the only one making a new sound ?or even new music ? Nope... I got 4985 songs on my hard drive right now (not counting the extra cds)  , is the genre recycled, Yup. Just listen to L.A. Guns they have used the same tool once too many times, AC/DC? Perfect example now that you mention ! boring ? yes, successful? yes, one does not mean the other.
You say If Axl was doing the same Kind of AFD rock we would all love it... but you don't get it, there is no IF, axl would never do that. It wouldn't be Axl. You are confusing recycled with influenced music. There is a difference.

i would hardly call a band with tons of anthems and guitar anthems "boring"

my other thing was no matter what axl puts out people will like it on these forums

Look at the replies people make, best album ever, the best guitar solos ever, 325 on the 1-10 scale..  These are not evaluations of songs they are devote followers of someone.. It's like when your friend gets a new girlfriend and can't see her any other way then perfect, everything revolves around her.. People here just act lik ehte never heard a solo before or a good tune before..

I was talking about present day Ac/Dc


ok, but don't put that sticker on me. Plus, even if people often exagerate they only do so because they are excited,and? if you've noticed, the entire fan base is not 100% blind, a lot of people don't like silkworms, ohmygod and Rhyad (I love rhyad)

I wasn't trying to put the label on you, and I understand people are excited.. trust me so am I... As for ac/dc like many other bands I grew up with I don't even follow them anymore, I tend to just stick to the classics tunes

Silkworms I agree most don't like, as for oh my god I think people say the end of days was bad but love the rio one..

I just feel people aren't as judgemental or honest and they would be with someone elses work, or anyone else for that matter...

It would be nice to see some more mixed opinions on these tunes that's all..

It's crazy to expect another AFD from Axl. First, he didn't have too much musical input into that record, Second maybe AFD wasn't his true style, Third he aged and cannot even perform the old songs. You can't expect Finck, Fortus, Stinson, Dizzy etc. to write AFD part 2. Remeber what Halfin said: CD will have 4 rockers, the rest is ballads and 'experimental stuff'. So we have 3 rockers (CD, Better, IRS) and the forth is Prostitute I think.

I'm more concerned if the music will be good enough. There are different types of music which are all good. AFD is not for Axl anymore and I'm glad he realized this. No need to sweat to make a rock album. He can't. Make the best album he can make in a year and release it.

Axl was never one to repeat the same thing over and over again. Look at his style, it always changes. Same thing with music. He said it right from the beginning, 1987, that he wanted to evolve and do all types of music. This isn't something that just popped out of the blue. Watch the CBGB interview. Why would he make another Appetite anyway, if you want to hear that then just listent to the cd. I certainly dont want Appetite part 2. I want to hear new types of songs, and I'm real happy with the results we've had so far.

Then why did he re-record Appetite with the new band   :hihi:

So they could learn the songs and get them to to the level they need to be at in order to do the old material justice when they played it live.

Why does one have to re record an album to learn how to play them.. Didn't gilby and matt learn the entire playlist in a few weeks?

who gives a shit ?

Eh, Axl pretty much said that they re-recorded Appetite to capture the energy on that record -

Like them or not, I think most people can agree that comparitively, the UYI records were missing that "lightning in a bottle" energy. I even read a review recently that called both records "poorly paced," and I definitely agree.

With Chinese Democracy, he's aiming to get that energy back, and you can hear it in songs like "Better."

I feel the energy in say civil war, coma, dtj,  or ycbm in comparison to better..  i think the illusions were done great just had a few songs that weren't good in gnr terms..

How would I know. I'm not Axl, so I'm not the one to answer your question.

In the CBGB interview Axl said he wanted to try something different for the next record...Well its been 18 years later so i think the statute of limitations is up.........If Axl is so "over" the AFD sound then why play 10 songs live from that record every night????

Its like Metallica putting out shit like Load and St Anger yet when they play live all they play is Puppets/Lightning and the black album....If you are gonna play all the 'old faves' live why not continue writing songs in that style...........

maybe he knew what the crowd wanted to hear?? That tour was so fucking unorganized that anything goes

i've said it before and i will say it again, if you were expecting chinese democracy to go back to the appetite style, you haven't been paying attention all these years. everything that has been written about how this album will sound has indicated that it would sound modern and progressive. Does this quote ring a bell? "Imagine Led Zeppelin's Physical Graffiti remixed by Beck and Trent Reznor, and you'll have some sense of Axl's new sound."

also, as i've said before, if you want appetitte for destruction sounding stuff there are plenty of bands that are doing that these days. Turbonegro, Vains of Jenna, and Backyard Babies to name a few.

who said afd, people just said they were lacking some rockers.. Everyone is so deffensive

How are IRS and Better not "rockers"? Sure there are certain parts that are more chill on those songs but they definitely have "rocking" parts. Are you wanting more songs that are start to finish "rocking"? What a generic stupid term.

I dance to Don't Damn me  :rofl:

I would like some ycbm, scom, or wttj type starts.. We are gnr fans something should be expected regardless of how many years pass and how many new faces occupy this group.. They definetly have heavy parts in them

axl needs to get some shadow of your love going :peace:

Chinese Democracy has a rocking start.

yes it does, so does oh my god... I just get the ballad vibe on a good deal of the tracks.. Only if irs started the way it ends with that solo :drool:

shadow of our love??? great song, don't get me wrong, but it was written well over 20 years ago. once again, there are many bands doing that sort of thing, but you are delusional if you think or thought chinese democracy is going to sound like that. the song chinese democracy is unquestionably a rocker, but with an updated sound. just because the first 10 seconds of IRS are not balls out doesn't mean the song is a ballad by any stretch. would you call civil war a ballad???

i do somewhat see your point about ballads though. of the new songs we have heard about half of them are ballad-ish - the blues, madagascar, TWAT.

Here are a few questions to ponder...

Why did the Van Hagar reunions songs of 2004 suck ass? Why were the Motley Crue songs from last year weak? Because in both cases it was an artist just rehashing the same old, same old. With "Better," "IRS," and "TWAT," Axl has taken GN'R to the next level, without jumping on a trend...I'm sure some fans of AFD wont like the new album, but so be it. Just release the fuckin' album already.

I'd consider civil war balladish with great guitar work.... As for shadow of your love, I was just having a laugh after hearing part of better where axl screams and though about that song... Well axl had alot of angst back in the day, who knows how much angst one can have after living that posh life for so long..

"ONE BIG NEGATIVE-WHERES THE ROCK???"

The Rock left the WWE in 2004 to pursue a career in Hollywood.

Next level? I'm sorry but IMO 'next level' means better. Same for this 'Axl wanted to evolve' bullshit. Some people tend to think that 'evolve' means making better music. Hell, no. These new songs are far from GN'R's best work, not even close to their average stuff. This isn't another level, it's another way, another style.


And involving industrial elements means not 'jumping on a trend'?  ???  Then what is jumping on a trend? Don't get me wrong, I want Axl to make his own music, the one he thinks to be the best (that's why he started his solo career, isn't he?) but saying he isn't aware of trends is simply untrue.

what the hell? seems everyone's heard the leaked tracks here.. am i the only one left that's "abstaining" from ruining the moment when i'm driving back from the record store blasting the songs for the first time in the car?  :)

When were the industrial elements  "trendy"  last? As if you were still in the mid 90s.

An Epic doesn't necessarily mean a ballad. See zeppelin.


And If GNR was delivering the dead spit of afd, UYI or whatever, then, damnit, I'd have no use for GNR, I might add.
Good posts woody.

Mike, Just let me remind you that Not everyone here digs the blues and maddy.
And I think you guessed right about ACDC.

Plus, it's really amazing how some fans put everything about the old band on top of anything else, like it is sacred and inviolable, like making any comment on it is blasphemy. As if changes would hurt.

From what I've heard, GNR was actually regarded as the parody of the then "old wave", doing recycled rock, when the band just made the major debut. JFYI.