Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Greetings all:

I would like to take a moment to discuss the psychological makeup of the Axl Rose haters and then, as a community, how we, as loyal fans, can best combat them.

Your participation in this thread would be most appreciated. Whether you be a newbie, or a veteran. Now let us begin.

Axl Rose is unique in the fact that he is both equally loved and reviled more passionately then almost anyone else. People familiar with Mr. Rose either love him or hate him. To his loyal fans, he is an almost messianic, Christlike tortured genius. To his detractors he is a woman-beating, homophobic, petty dictator (AMG). While some fans do see the gray and acknowledge both his good and bad points, in the end, people usually either strongly like, or dislike Axl Rose. As of this writing it's been nearly 15 years since GN'R released their last studio album, yet when demos were leaked on the net, it was as though the Chinese were invading. All over the Internet and across the US where the songs were previewed on the radio, fans/non-fans weighed in with their two cents. A decade and a half later, people are eager to voice their opinion.

Few rock/music fans seem to be indifferent about the new songs and the prospect of a new album. People are either excited and drooling at the prospect, or they want to get up on a soapbox and trash Axl Rose senseless. It's as though non-Axl fans would like nothing more than to see him fail.

I will categorize the anti-Axl folk into three categories:

(1) The old-school gunners -- The "If Slash isn't there, it's not GN'R" crowd.
(2) The Mullet-heads-Still stuck on the Crue and Ratt, most aren't sophisticated enough to appreciate the brilliant Illusion albums.
(3) The Morrisey/Westerbeg crowd- These folks tend to post at the Velvet Rope. Elitist, pseudo intellectual types who regard "Chinese Democracy" as the "buttock 'Smile,'" Perhaps our greatest foe, these people tend to think that their shit doesn't stink and are perhaps the most vehemently Anti-Axl and self-righteous.

When "Chinese Democracy" drops, it's going to drop big-time. On all boards, everywhere, people are going to go nuts. I honestly predict it will be as divisive and heated as the 2004 American Presidential election.

All of this taken into consideration, the question is asked, what is the role of us, the few, the proud, the hard-core fans...What are we to do? How do we challenge and immobilize the people that want Axl to fail? Do we have a broad-reaching plan of action for all three above anti-Axl groups? Or do we have a special strategy for each?

Why should we care? What is the point of standing up for Axl? I will tell you. While most music/rock fans have strong opinions, the media, which will influence the general public, are up for grabs. The media must know that Axl Rose is supported, which will help the band in the long-run. We must let it be known that we like "Chinese Democracy," and we must yell louder than the anti-Axl contingent, because they will yell very loud indeed.

GN'R/Axl fans, speak your mind...

Discuss...?

well you're coming up with the *hardcore/cool* hating facts.

for a lot of people he also is:

lame
gay
fag
fat
sings like a woman
wears tiny shorts like a faggot
un-cool
emo
weinner
bitchy
cry-baby
horrible high voice.
emo (did i say that?)
stupid
un-educated redneck who rants about politics

that's what a lot of people say.

and i'm fine with that. i'm glad people hate axl and gnr.

cause in the end. we don't care. he doesn't care. it's rock n roll :)
i always say Axl is so LAME that makes him so cool.

People hear are Guns N Roses fans one way or another otherwise they wouldn't even be here, your simple bitching about people who have a different opinion to you or don't kiss Axl's ass.

Gimme a break, Nixon. Not only are you believing the media conspiracy propoganda, it sounds like you've been mind melding with Mysteron through PMs. Who gives a fuck what a journalist, newspaper, magazine, critic,etc, thinks of Axl? Years ago he didn't care. Now that he gets upset when one person hates him we're supposed to unite and declare war and start some smear campaign? You need to come back to planet earth. Anyone who is talented, rich, famous, and controversial will have a certain amount of haters. He needs to deal with that fact, and so do you.

How can you hate someone who gives you "Better" & "TWAT"...?!

Not to mention "SCOM", "November Rain", "Patience", "WTTJ" etc....

no offense but maybe you should take your own advice, some guy on a message board encouraging people to bombard a newspaper with letters doesn't mean axl has fuck all to do with it. actually that would surprise me, he's more the type to rant on tour about it. axl is no bitching newcomer, he has taken criticism for 19 years in the media now, i doubt he would be shocked by this one.

No one says you have to be involved.  :rant:

Like I said to Nixon, certain segments of the population hate genius, celebrity, etc. Take your avatar as an example. John Lennon was a genius. Certain people hated him. Does that make him any less of a genius? Of course not.


Even the most loved person in the world has someone that hates them.

YOU said "GN'R/Axl fans, speak your mind..." so jameslofton29 did.





Cause we don't live in a fantasy world where everyone goes around talking about how much they love GnR? ::)

Speak your mind about how to combat the anti-Axl folks. And now I am saying no one has to be involved if they don't want to.

Yeah, it was a rhetorical question, I didn't want an answer.  : ok:

I myself would consider myself an Axl lover however, I don't see him as christlike.   I see what his faults are as a fan and not like I personally know him.   Axl knows that we the fans fully support him...he also knows that there are the Slash lovers out there that will just not except gnr as gnr without Slash and will continue to bash him for it and I am sure a part of him does care about what people [slash lovers or just old fans, non die hard fans and non fans] say concerning his presence, his voice, etc.  He is so critical of his own music that I am sure he is that of himself but in the same sense doesn't care, you know what I am trying to say.    I don't really see what more we can do, I mean we have been here for years waiting....which Axl is fully aware of, he knows we support him and will continue to do that I mean just being here online and off voicing our opinions to the "axl haters" I think is enough.   

The only person who can cut the bashers mouth of, is Axl himself. Come back and show he still rocks and can make music.
His fans should not make any "hate the haters" situation. People can like and dislike whoever they want. Just because we belive in
Axl and his talent, doesent mean that that we have the right to fight the "bashers". Let that be Axls job, for himself to make them
think twise. All be can do, is to give Axl our support and show him, that there really is someone out here that cares!
Thats what important! Axl have the greates fans in the world. I think we have proven that!  : ok:

And a rapper.



Emo?
That's new... They are saying Axl is an emo?? :rofl:

The music will speak for itself.

you forgot wigger and especially asshole. i go to random forums, they now say axl's a redneck wigger, not that i give a fuck..  :rant:

We need a useless section of the forums for posts like this.

Why do we need to "fight" those who think differently than us?  Let them listen to what they want.

last I checked, there was freedom of speech and expression

people are free to love or hate Axl Rose and GnR  as much as they want

the title of this thread reminds me of the born again christians who try to convert everybody, shoving there beliefs down your throat; some of the exact things Axl ranted about in One in a Million

No.

I think people here have missed the point. Obviously people can say whatever they want. But when the album is released and when activity starts up again, we should be there to stand up for Axl after his long absence.

you need haters to be successfull... Look at people like howard stern the media that's negative and the ffc or the christian groups that jump up and down cause more people to tune in then out.. ?Most of the biggest popular people have equal love hate... Who the fuck want sto be in a world where everyone just kisses ass and loves everything about a person..? Axl is hated not by accident either, wasn't like he was the model man to every person that got into gnr..

Rn what would ytou like to do when the album comes out to defend axl, hit the road with torches and pipes and hit people not into axl rose?? I mean the way you do your part is by buying the album voting for the videos and buying tickets to the shows, other then that who gives a fuck..? This reminds me of back in the day when the girls wanted to punch people because you knocked the new kids on the block :hihi:

Nixon, stick up for him all you like, as is your right-------

Personally, the only thing that interests me about Axl/GnR is the music, let his PR staff handle al the other issues

I just wish there was a product to b excited about

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Ever think people are down on Axl, or criticize him because it's been 15 years between new material releases

and if hety want to, thats their right

What about the street teams?

Take a trip back in time and ask mysteron! :rofl:

Amen-Axl Rose just wouldn't be Axl Rose if we all loved him! But, Mr. Nixon, i do agree with yor general and well thought out characterizations of Axl-haters-but whatever and whoever they might be, they're entitled to their feelings, even if they are misguided-it's on Axl and the strength of the material that will or won't prove them wrong. CD will undoubtedly be polarizing-but the fact that it will be in and of itself will help the album, b/c people (casual music fans) will want to buy it just to see what the debate is all about.

 if Axl can reconcile that people might hate him and his work (and I think he has), then we can too.

there are  just axl haters now because of how axl acts after the big  guns ended... People don't agree with the fact he kept the name, people hate the wait, people hate the idea he thinks he was and is gnr alone, people hate the idea that he believes whoever he hires as long as he's the singer then it's guns n roses.. There are many reasons to dislike axl rose

I had an Alice In Chains fan tell me that GNR wasn't GNR anymore w/out the rest of the band, but he was pumped for the new AIC configuration.

I was like, "Isn't your lead singer dead?".

I read an interview back in 2000 in Rolling Stone that axl said something to the effect of "There was Guns N Roses before they (the originallineup) were in the band, and there will be guns N Roses even though they left"

technically that is true, there was GnR before they were in the band (though Izzy was w/ Axl from the Hollywood Rose days)

that being said, GnR wasn't GnR until the line-up that made AFD and the UYI albums

The fact is though, It's comments like the above as to why there are some Axl haters, not to mention 15 years between original releases, missed concerts, etc........though I love the band and like what I've heard from the demo leaks, Axl's earned the detractor's and haters, cynics and critics

yes, if we didnt want to be invloved we wudnt be.

One thing we can do is to post our reviews on amazon.com and as many other online sites as we can.... not to be overly positive or praising but trying to be more objecting and understanding of the new lineup, what they have gone through, etc...

Yes, sounds good. I also think it would help if he emailed and called our local radio stations.

 ;D Strike down the Axl haters!

This thread is ridiculous. "The psychological makeup of haters?" Give me a break! Every public figure has their supporters and their "haters." There is no use debating their pyschological makeup. They are aren't any more strange than those of you who worship a reclusive rock star.

Axl does ignite more passion from people (whether it is positive or negative) than someone like Vince Neil for example. It's simply because Guns N Roses were one of the few bands that created passion in people on a global level. So people who are passionate about Guns N Roses' music tend to be passionate about their feelings towards Axl. These people tend to view him as some sort of musical God who can do no wrong or they view him as an egotistical jerk who destroyed the very band that ignited that passion in them.

I tend to lean towards the latter, but I am not an Axl "hater." I love the music he helped create. I respect him as a musician, but that doesn't give him a free pass to do whatever he pleases. I'm not going to overlook the negative just because I enjoy his music. He is not a person to be admired, in my opinion. However, I am not one of those people who are just looking for him to fail. I don't believe he is the musical genius his diehards make him out to be, but I can listen to his music with an open mind. I have no problem admitting when he does something great such as Better.

You just have to respect other people's opinions and realize you can't change their mind. Support Axl however you wish, but don't try to force people to do the same.

Exactly. I think if you refer to Axl as "messianic, Christlike" then you need your "psychological makeup" examined  :confused:

repeat

No.

I think people here have missed the point. Obviously people can say whatever they want. But when the album is released and when activity starts up again, we should be there to stand up for Axl after his long absence.

Im as pro Axl as u can get but some of the guitar work is somewhat mediocre so far.


Axls vocals,lyrics,melodies kick major ass though.

to be fair this is one of the most ridiculous threads I have ever read in my life.  :yes: : ok:

Are people not allowed to dislike Axl? Who cares if someone hates Axl? I dont like Twisted Sister or Motley Crue. Its just a diffrent taste in music. If people dont like Axl let them. Stop bitching. They probably hate him worst because fans protect him all the time.

But yet you took the time to post. ::)

Axl's a grown man and he has a PR machine.   He and his people can stand up for him.  That's what they get paid for.  I'm too busy trying to run my business to "stand up for Axl after his long absence".  Unless he wants to put me on his payroll.

I don't think anyone needs to be "shutting up" anyone else for having an opposing view of GN'R and Axl... that being said... Nixon is correct to state that we should do everything in our power to insure that our point of view is at least HEARD... no one needs to go around beating the hell out of Nirvana fans... but it wouldn't hurt to be sure that we: (a) buy several copies of CD (if possible- give em away as X-mas and B-Day gifts); (b) request GN'R from our local radio stations; (c) attend the concerts; (d) make intelligent write-ups and reviews of CD on Amazon, etc.; (e) write-up objective and informed reviews of GN'R concerts; (f) reach out to those friends and relatives of ours that we know at some time liked GN'R and (g) "stick up" for the band in a RESPECTFUL way when you hear it get dissed in casual conversation... and this to me is probably the most important thing, because I find it happens ALL THE TIME... I was at dinner the other night with my wife (27) and some slightly younger couples (23-24), and one of the girls was having a laugh about how I liked Guns N' Roses and Axl, etc. and I calmly (emphasize calmly) debated her back... by the end of the night she, as well as most of the other couples, were dying to get her hands on a copy of CD. So many of the "haters" have no depth or real commitment to their opinions (NOTHING compared to the depth of our understanding and respect for GN'R)... if you respectfully debate with them... they usually fold and admit that they at least like a few GN'R songs. The reality is, many of these people (even just 2-3 yr. age difference- but that's how quickly the landscape changed in 93-94) just went to high school in an era when GN'R was uncool and they've never known any different nor bothered to research their initial impressions.

Now there's a hardcore group of Axl Rose haters out there that know their shit and just don't happen to like the guy at all... no matter what. Fine. No need to even debate these people... but we can at least compete against them for control over the media's perception of Axl and GN'R... I don't see anything wrong with that at all. Seems to me that they've been running the show for too long...

which means what exactly? :confused: Its still a ridiculous thread bellend.

mmm.. some fairly generic stereo-typing in your thread Nixon. Its not all as black and white as you make it out. People who believe Axl was an ass to the original members are not necessarily moronic, mullet wearing Ratt fans. Wake up and look at the facts, some fans of music have a genuine beef with the fact that the greatest band since Zeppelin was dismantled in such a flippant manner by Axl. Constant press over the years pertaining to Axl being the sole reason Guns were successful hasn't helped the cause any either.

But lets not go there....




This is hilarious  :hihi: Surely youre taking the piss here?

I agree, Axl needs to let the music do the talking, and silence critics with quality performances.

Whining and lame excuses ends now!

Axl has millions of dollars, can do almost anything he wants, lead singer to one of the top 10 best musical groups in history, could get practically any woman he wants including the haters Gfs and wives, actually has a band and doesn't talk to a beat machine and calls it music.

It kind of shuts the mouths of any hater. ?

His only weak points are his temper, stubborness, and in a way doing whatever he wants...

.....

It seems what your advocating for is almost as time and energy consuming as it was for this CD to be written, recorded, and hopefully distributed.  It also seems to be pretty expensive.  Buy Multiple copies of CD?  For what, to inflate sales.  You gonna throw $60-70 bucks my way for the extras?  Attend the shows, been there, done that in Philly 2002.  Debate them?  With what?  It's hard to present a reasonable argument when you haven't had a new product in 15 years, and when it does come out, with an entirely different cast that was responsible for the initil ffans interest in the band in the first place.

Like many people have said.  Axl doesn't owe the fans shit.  I say, neither do the fans owe Axl anything.  It's been an awfully long and frustrating road to get this far watching my favorite band self destruct and become reborn.  Yes.  I will buy CD, iif and when it comes out.  To act as Axl's pro-bono attorney to radio stations, CD review outlets, and non-fans would be a complete and utter waiste of my time and effort. 

My respect for Axl is for purely his musical talent.  If others fail to, that's entirely their business, not mine.

What you advocate "fans" to do sure seems expensive and time consuming.  I remember a day when all being a fan required was enjoying the music, not acting as Axl's musical distributor, lawyer, publicist, and critic.

But you go ahead.  I'd like to see the thank you letter from Axl for all your effort.

Axl did not destroy the old band. I am sick of hearing that. Who was smacked out of their skulls for the UYI tour? Not Axl. Axl is no saint, but he alone did not destroy the old band. They all quit! Stop trying to paint Axl as the villian. And you are right, they are "not necessarily moronic, mullet wearing Ratt fans." I'm sure some of them sport Bon Jovi and Metallica shirts as well.

Very good. We need posts like this. This is what I had in mind. Time to rally the gunners.

I'll do what I can in my country and wherever I can  :smoking: :peace:

well its true that they had their problems with substance abuse and the like, but I find it trite to use that as a rationale to marginalise great talents like Slash and Izzy specifically. I refer to Izzy being asked to take a pay cut and be put on contract, I refer to Axls constant no shows or being late for gigs, throwing tantrums etc.., I refer to him getting Paul Huge involved without any consultation with the lead guitarist, I refer to Axl being generally inconsistent for the other band members to be able to continue any feasible working relationship with the guy.

These are the reasons they "quit" and these are the very same reasons that certain fans of music of all shapes, sizes, genres, intellects etc... think Axl has behaved like an ass. Not because there is a media conspiracy to "bring him down", not because his former band mates secretly conspire to make him fail. No - all his own making.

I, like many other people, love Axl for the music he's given us and it doesn't make me any less of a fan because I call into question some of his behaviours

Anyways, like I said, I don't want to get into that debate ...? :P

Fair enough. Axl is no saint. But the truth is we weren't there. We can only go by what Axl, and the x-gunners say. But forget about all that. In '06, what can we do to help Axl? That is the point of this thread.

How about we all buy 1 album and go to any show near us. There is no need to spread propaganda.

If people misunderstand its because of your poor choice of words in your topic. You don't need to "stand up" for Axl, but if you mean supporting him, then that's fine. Join a street team or do whatever you feel like to promote the music without pestering people. However, you have to realize nothing you can do is going to change the mind of haters unless they are open minded. If they are close-minded about the music then its unlikely they are going to care about something such as positive reviews written by Axl diehards on Amazon. Don't worry about what others think. Just enjoy the music. Now, if you want to promote the music just because you love the music and want to share it, that's great, but don't do it because you want to change minds because that is unlikely to happen.

My choice of words was fine. Try reading next time.

There are a few types of Axl haters, the GnR fans who sides with Slash and Co. and begrudge Axl because they believe he was the one responsible for breaking up the band.  I used to sort of be in this group, but I've come to realize that Axl was thrown under the bus by the media in a lot of cases.  What a lot of people don't talk about is that Duff and Slash were drunk and stoned out of their minds most of the time when the band was falling apart, and probably weren't the easiest people to communicate or work with

Then there are the people who bought into all of the bad press, particularly in the stage where the media and much of the country were draped all over Cobain's scrotum, that Axl Rose is a racist, a homophobe, white trash, not talented, crazy, and all the other stuff.  These are the people who are the worst, because they are the closeminded crowd that have already made up their mind that the album will be horrible.  Chinese Democracy could be one of the greatest albums in years, but it wouldn't matter to this group because to them anything attached to Axl Rose is bad. 

The people in the second group can go fuck themselves  : ok:  They live for negativity and all they want to do is bash, there's nothing anyone can do to change these peoples minds, and no matter what not everyone is going to like the album, and all the criticism of Axl Rose in the media and in music circles, deserved and undeserved, has impacted many peoples perspectives.  At the end of the day it doesn't really matter, the album will sell millions of copies worldwide and from what I've heard so far will be a great album, you can't please everyone so there's no point in trying, no point in wasting your time trying to convince negative, elitist whiners who won't give the album a chance because Axl's involved to give it chance, it's their loss if they're petty enough to ignore good music just because of who's name's on it

My reading and comprehension skills are excellent. A thread with the title such as yours just sounds ridiculous especially since it doesn't have to do much with the point you were trying to get across.

Re-Read the origanal post. It's a call to rally the troops to stand up for Axl, because there is going to be a lot of naysayers. Godamnit. :rant:

I understand your point.  I am saying your title doesn't fit it. "The psychological makeup of Axl Rose haters." Come on, that sounds ridiculous. It sounds like they have a bizarre mental defect and you're trying to figure them out.  :hihi:

It's the initial post that is quite ridiculous.  Stand up for Axl??  I would go thru allthe rasons why but you can read my posts. 

IS this what you mean Mike G about some of the GnR fans that post on this board :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

This thread is quite frightening.. A thread like this over the course of tiem can turn the casual gnr fan into a gnr hater

threads like this give GnR fans a bad name

I don't know, a Nixon promoting guerilla warfare is kinda funny to me. :hihi:

But yes, this "war" on GN'R haters is what we should be against. Not everyone needs to like them, ya know.

nixon and skynrd girl can lead 'axl's army" ;D

this thread contradicts his conention that he never said to write magazine, and argue with all non-lovers :rofl: :rofl:

I'll just spit in Axl's eye and it'll all be over, he'll run away crying. :hihi:

but he may knock you over running out.. :smoking:

That's a sacrifice I'm willing to make. ;D

No it does not.If a writer of an article writes an objective, fair review, fine. If a poster writes a fair, objective opinion, fine. If a writer writes a nasty, biased article, time for GN'R fans to unite and show support for Axl. If at some forum there is constant GN'R bashing, time to unite and counter the negativity.

no, people have the right to their own opinion w/out someone arguing about it, it's worse than jehovah's witness' coming to your door to convert you :rofl:

If I may, Mr President, most posters make very biased "Axl is God" statements that need to be "fought" more than those who hate the new GN'R music.

And maybe those "Axl is God" type posts are a response to the constant negativity of other people. What came first, the chicken or the egg?

I actually think it is cool to be hated . . . that is the best part about Axl Rose . . . rebellion, angst, enemies "Out Ta Get Me". ?

Nixon - aren't you missing the point? You don't really want to see America love Axl Rose! Here is an analogy you can understand . . .

He is what Simon Cowell is to American Idol! Vile! That is why Idol is so popular!

Those people are fans and they're more welcome here than the "Axl is the Devil" people.

This is a GN'R fan site, do you know the meaning of that? We're not here because we hate Axl and what he's doing.

Some of you seem to have the wrong idea.



/jarmo

At the same time, I think people interpret the smallest criticism of Axl as "hate". Can't we all just get along?  :hihi:

I don't have a problem with criticism. Fine you didn't like a song or show. That's your opinion.

But some people here are complaining about everything. Even things that aren't even related to the musical aspect.

No information, no shows (and when there are shows, they're in the wrong places), no music, his clothes, Axl being spotted in a club, Axl hanging out with the wrong band etc etc.  ::)



/jarmo

Some people just complain about anything they can.

WHo hasn't said great shows were announced, who hasn't said to others enjoy or we'll be watching rio... I have only mentioned why is axl talking about slash instead of the works in progress..? ?The reason people talk about his clothes is because of the last few years that has been the higlights of ?the band... When we got the leaks we all spoken of them and said what we liked, disliked...

Or we could just not give a fuck and keep listening to Guns N' Roses, because we like them and not everyone else has to.

well said :beer:

everyone give props to chinesedemocracy05!

come on boys!

quit replying to ur self sorry had to say that  : ok:  but anyway i do agree what CD05 is saying that we should just enjoy the music dont care whats going on just VIBE with it

exactly...chinesedemoc05, u are def. one of my favorite users

get a room

ur cool

yea right

Quit answering ur replies plzz

are you schizophrenic or something?

must be

Back to the point: Oh wait, we need some one who disagrees with CD'05 before we can move on. Oh well... *waits*

This whole thread is rather pointless and should be closed.
1. The people who visit this site do not speak with one voice; and
2. people who hate Axl or new GNR cannot be silenced. I mean, really, how are you going to stop someone from speaking or writing what is on their mind (in a democratic state)?

Dude you would have made a great Branch Davidian. Even Axl would be weirded out by this kind of pap.