Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I dont understand how he does such a great fuckin job keepin a lid on everything and then does some dumbass stupid shit like letting a club play 2 discs of CD and now we got all these fuckin leaks coming out.


Axl dropped the ball and merck and whoever have no one to blame but themselves. 

Im disappointed that he became so careless and I pray the entire album isnt leaked.

I listened to a few just to satisfy my curiosity and to see what's in store.

I now know the album is gonna exceed my expectations so I dont want anymore leaks.

Im definitely pissed at Axl for being careless after all this time.

According to someone who was in contact with the leakers, the material is the same stuff he played at the Crazy Horse strip club in Vegas in 2003 or 2004, can't remember which.  Take that with a grain of salt, but that's what the word is.  I'm not sure why it's just leaking now if that's the case, but that's what they claim

I doubt they're from the recent Axl club parties. probably some 2002 promo cd, which someone got from a friend of someone...
I don't think Axl would've playd demos on those clubs, why would he?
Only thing im wondering is the timing with everything... "people will hear music this year", tour and the NYC happenings.

Is there any possibility that the leaks were intentional?

If Axl goes places and plays his material for people, don't you think a part of him really wanted his material heard, at least by the people he played it for?

God forbid hungry FANS got their hands on some of those notes and discuss them. ::)

To gauge reaction?  There are different stages of demos.  Some are pretty close to finished, I think these songs are pretty close to finished.  They are minor details away from being finished, better mixing, some more production, and so on, but they sound pretty close

I too wonder how this could have happened. I understand how IRS could have happened because of the whole Trunk/piazza thing. My guess is Axl trusted someone not to leak it or maybe he isn't worried that these demos are being leaked because he knows the final versions are nothing like it. Your guess is just as good as mine or anyone else's.

Reaction from who? 5 people from bar staff? ?I doubt hes plan was to play these demos at a club and then someone steals and spreads them for the public.

Yah..but did it get stolen...did the dj burn the cd right there?? Did Axl forget he left it with the dj?? Seems all too careless as D has said.? I mean...I was a firm believer of them "management or axl or both" that the first few leaks were intentional but now I am starting to think otherwise cause how in the world do you let that many tracks leak to get the buzz going or fan and non fan reaction.

Why else would he play it in public then?  He can listen to it in private any time he wants, there had to be some reason he decided to play it in public

this shit wasnt intentional and if someone has the entire album and the whole thing is gonna leak then its disastrous.


Dirt I dont understand the eye rolling, u do realize that people are suppose to wait for the actual completed CD to come out before hearing the songs right?

What we have done just isnt right.

I can forgive all of us for DL IRS,TWAT and Better, give ourselves a little reward for waiting so long but Axl has proven in these songs that he has it and the album is gonna be a classic.

So that should satisfy our hunger and hold us over till the CD comes out.

not doing so is being selfish and greedy.

If Axl wants people to hear it............. SET A FUCKIN RELEASE DATE!!


this had to come out of his birthday bash, think about it.

The bash happened first week of February, the leaks happen a week or so later.

No way someone is gonna sit on this shit for 3 or 4 years and up and leak it one day.

As I previously stated in another thread, I think this is one HUGE marketing ploy. I think Axl intended for this to happen. Why would the leaks occur one week after he appeared in NYC? Why didn't the leaks occur after his venture to the strip club in 2003? ?There's something brewing. ?I think ?either way this is a smart strategy. This has created a huge buzz, which will probably amount to good sales for CD.

If it is just a few songs then yeah, it could be a great marketing strategy BUT, it would be disastrous if the entire album is leaked.

To satisfy himself. It's just as simple as that.
If you have worked on something for a long time you surely would like to be respected for your work. It seems that the album isn't done so he plays some songs in front of a little audience to get some respect until he can finally release the album.

There Only Demos.

Listen to the November Rain demos, they sound fuck all like the studio version.

The leaks are only demos and they will sound alot better on the album, and everyone who listen to the leaks are still going to buy the album.

D, in ways the leaking is a good thing. Free publicity and absolutely no statement from management, no work whatsoever. And they are demos, they won't sound this way once the album drops. Some not even remotely close I predict.

In the end, there will be music out there presented as Axl wanted it to be heard.

Don't worry so much.

Oriegon, I am so focking sick of this mentallity.  NR demos were so focking stripped down.  I mean my god, listen to all the detail in these demos.  I mean listen to Better. All the effects and such.  I agree they will be different, but they won't be as drastic as NR.  Axl with one guitar and the other was Axl on the piano.  I guess my point is that there isn't much more to add that isn't already there.  I hope he is reading what we say, cause he needs more guitar other then the solos and some power chords.  He needs real riffs.

D, I would agree with you if they were studio recordings. However, they are not. These are just demos. That's all they are. No one is sure how the final product will turn out until CD is released. ?I think Axl knew what was going to happen when he had his  limo driver hand a copy to the owner of the bar. Axl might be a lunatic, but he's also a genius. He knows how to create hype. I really have to admire this since this is something that should be taught in business school.

I dont worry over a few demos

Im talkin bout the entire album. that wouldnt be good.

Yeah but I made this point in a nother thread.

what happens though is, u get these demos stuck in your mind and u hear them and listen to them and u interpret and identify with them and they become a part of your conciousness.

U get so use to the demo version, once u get the real version u will be so use to the demo version u may not like the actual version.

what if madagascar is completely different?

I mean we are so use to what we've heard over the last 5 years that I couldnt imagine it sounding any other way.

D, isn't that the beauty of all this? You don't know what to expect. You have some idea, but it's something that may be something better (no pun intended). All I'm saying is that this is probably the best way to create hype without expectations. There has been so many times where CD was supposed to be released and then it wasn't.  I think this was the only escape route for Axl and company to see what the interest would be for this new material. I'm happy for the leaks. Although I'm a HUGE fan of Axl, I was disappointed that GNR would go on without Slash and Co. I think these demos have helped me to regain my interests in hearing new material from my childhood hero.

madagascar was changed from the rio concert the bucket solo was nowhere near as good id rather listen to the rio version than the 2002 tour version any day.

see my point?

Same with The Blues, the one at Rio was perfect and the one during the 2002 tour wasnt as good but the thing is, Im so use to Maddy and The Blues from RIR, that anything different is gonna be hard for me to accept and thats the problem with DL leaks.


DL a few songs to get a taste of what is to come is fine.

DL an ENTIRE album is disrespecting the artist.

Cause U may buy the album but the 20 people u share it with may not.

There is the possibility that they were intention I won't rule that out totally, but I doubt it.

I know we don't owe Axl anything as he doesn't owe us.. but when the CD is right around he corner I find it unfair to those who worked so hard. I know we have stayed loyal all these years but our reward for that is coming. Gigs have been annouced and following the 02 tour I think it's safe to say he wouldn't make the same mistake again. I find it amazing and incredibly selfish that so many 'fans' are like 'fuck Axl I've been waiting all this time I'm going to leak or I want more leaks' etc etc.. I find that attitude selfish and quite frankly I don't know how they can call themselves 'fans' or 'supporters' of Axl *ducks for cover*

I appreciate your sentiments, but at this point, I truly wonder if you can safely say anything when it comes to Axl Rose.

Are there really any safe bets with him?


Ali

 I was originally in the camp that said this was a marketing ploy, but with the possible leaking of other tracks, it's almost to the point where we will have 'Demo Democracy"-and it hardly makes sense for the super-prefectionist to deliberately leak an entire unpoloshed version of his album. But I cant see Axl being so careless as to leave copies floating around at nudie bars either!

Possiblities Im Considering:

Someone at one of the clubs ran their DJ system of an audio-ripping program like iTunes and stole tracks that way

An engineer (or engineers) who worked on CD in the last few years had been helping themselves to some free cuts of the songs and are now leaking them out a dislike for axl rose.

the timing, im afraid, makes everything suspect. but all it would take to clear it up is axl hisself releasing the record.

What?

I totally understand where you are coming from too. I just think after the whole 02 cancelled gigs and tour thing.. he couldn't possibly do it again. I have faith in Axl to have a definate plan this time. I think the timing all fits in too.. he said 23/26 songs almost done.. gigs are in a couple of months time for a single or soundtrack song followed by the album around mid-year ?: ok:

i think it was a test run. to see how we would react to the songs.for the new songs coming.

I hope you're right, man.  I really do.  I hope that Merck is thinking what you're thinking, that it would be unwise at best to just tour for the sake of touring without an album to promote the tour.  If Merck's doing his job well, that's what he's told Axl already.

Ali

Sorry, but we still don't know if CD is right around the corner, it could be months, years or never until the record company tells us otherwise.  Axl is still very unreliable live, as far as I'm concerned, as to whether he'll be late or show up at all.  Or if he can even sing well live. 

For whatever reason he doesn't want to release his music, I don't know, but I'm enjoying it now and am thankful, and I'll be thankful if we get more.  His talent should be heard. 

Getting CD out and having a successful incident-free tour will this year will be the ultimate arbiter of Merck's success as the manager for Axl/GnR- it's also probably the only way he'll save face if/when Sanctuary itself finally implodes for good.

If Merck didnt learn about his client's unreliablity and current standing as a marketable act with no new material from 2002, then he really is a fool-but the guy's had too much other success for me to think he cant learn from his mistakes.

Lol are you joking?

He's not joking.  Actually, alot of folks here on the board preferred the more up-tempo version of The Blues from Rio.  Personally, the best I've heard were Boston and Pittsburgh from the '02 tour.  Boston for a smoother sound, and Pittsburgh for more emotional vocals.  Just my opinion.

It is my firm belief that we are all being played like chumps.

Think about it.

1). We hear nothing for all this time and suddenly all this stuff is being leaked.

2). Axl, who has kept this whole project under tight lock and key, suddenly gets sloppy and tracks are allowed to drop about everywhere like cheap candy from a pinata

3). It coincidently starts just as Axl is suddenly being seen in public - not just by accident - as if the sudden increase in public sightings isn't enough he goes to a Korn launch party and a Victoria's Secret event where he knows he's gonna be centre of attention.

4). Add in the announcement of tour dates - also at the same time.

5). We have varying stories about the discs that these demos have come off - yeah there was definitely "one with 7 tracks: IRS v1, IRS v2, Better, TWAT, IRS, and two instrumentals" - and yet more tracks are appearing. Where the fuck did catcher in the rye come from? So there's two demo discs that are getting leaked at once as has been mentioned? Possibly a third? Yeah right all these songs become magically available, despite being from different discs, at the same time. Far fetched?

6). Who here doesn't get the feeling of being strung along bit by bit? Part of one song, then another part another day, then another song on another day, then a small clip, and so on. How long will this go on for?

7). Minor point - No finished tracks? Not even a hint of a rumour about a finished track being leaked? - So security over that seems as tight as a ducks ass.

8 ). Your main question here is: How would GN'R benefit from these leaks?

a). Free publicity
b). Gauge fan reactions
c). Possibly (probably only slightly) reduce the demand for leaks from the final album - shifts the focus: there's nobody offering or even thinking about offering money for an album leak because they're too busy trying to get hold of these demos. This could definitley work if the album was due soon.
d). Familiarise fanbase with new material - especially if the album isn't coming out before some of the shows that have been scheduled and they plan on playing some new tracks.

This could harm GN'R you say? How? Sales? Leaked demos of songs are never gonna effect the album sales of Chinese Democracy - would you be happy with only having demos of all the songs?......

@#$%Funker

Well Funker, when you put it like that.... :o

Look, we could all being played for fools, no question-as ali said, you cant really predict axl. but you know what? we will NEVER know for sure-because if this was the strategy all along, then they wont give it away-not with how 'well' its worked (when was the last time a demo from a band CHARTED?)

But sometimes coincidence is just that.

Far, far too much "coincide" for my liking.

@#$%Funker

One of the new songs could have very well be planned to be a single. Axl obviously has said hes fond of those 2 songs that were leaked. Why would he release them on the internet for free?

Every dj ?i have heard ?has said it is coming out in March . ?people are reported hearing their local dj's say the same thing. ? Do they know something we don't ??? ?Or are they just repeating what Slash said?? ? ? ? ?I guess we'll find out. ?As close as the release of this album seems ? it can very easily be scratched and never to see the light of day. ? Anything is possible ?with Axl Rose ?. ?He's up there with Michael Jackson as far as wacky ? artists goes. ? ? ?I still can't believe Mysteron posted that about the Herald article. ? I hope Axl had nothing to do with it. ?

He hasn't, we have incomplete demos. Think about it - nobody has heard the actual single which could be very different. And that's beside the fact that none of these could be the first single.

@#$%Funker

I hope you are right Muther!

Guess the only thing is Mysteron's post to remove the links etc. Still that request was like asking the Pope to covert to Islam and he has been very quiet since.. maybe it was all part of the game ????

You know what - this theory doesn't even have me thinking that this means CD is coming out soon.

It just has me thinking what a great way to promote an album if it works. Using leaks of a certain type and turning the leaks and leakers to your advantage.

As for management of any type: their silence in this case would have been deafening. They had to tell us to stop spreading it - what else are they gonna do - there would be no other option in that situation.

@#$%Funker

That's what I mean his thread asking for them to be stopped wasn't very convincing so.. ahh I don't know. I think it's a possibility but I'm more inclined to believe at the moment that they haven't come from the GN'R camp. Som sort of announcement would kill off the interest in hearing the stuff if we knew CD was about to arrive.

Hang about:

9 ). How fucking long was WAAF allowed to play IRS for? Not only that but when the did get a request to stop playing it they didn't exactly shit their pants. If anything they took it quite lightly.

Now when you consider how management swooped like eagles and cut out all trace of the first IRS leak on the Trunk show - you've gotta wonder.

@#$%Funker

I may be weird but I preferred the japanese versions of this song (ie: Tokyo and Osaka 2002). KOHD from these shows was also something else...Didn't care that much for the US versions.

This stuff happens when you've been drinking till 5:30 in the morning and want to keep it up;  don't know about you folks but I've done some foolish shit in the wee hours of the AM

Didn't sp1at say they were "aware of an announcement in the coming weeks" on the day the tracks were leaked (15th feb)?

maybe he was drunk for the first time in 13 years? :hihi:

Maybe it wasn't careless  at all. After all, according to some on this site, everything Axl does is strategy and has a purpose. So maybe the leaks were intentional to get some attention for the upcoming appearances in Europe.

One  would hope, unlike 2002, that this reappearance  is followed by the release of the album.

All of the recent events  simply make 2001-02 more confusing. 

I'm not sure about Axl and strategies, but I know the promotion department will have been working there asses off on ensures this album is promoted correctly - it's not exactly your typical album release.

Whether the promotion has already begun is another question.

@#$%Funker

This is a smart way to build the "UNDERGROUND FOLLOWING", sure they can't hit the small clubs and get a buzz going that way,  a few leaks are waking up the GNR FANS! I've even heard from the young kids they like what they hear. I think these leaks are good for Axl as long as CD comes out in March.  I really don't think Axl has been careless ;)