Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I don't recognize Brain. The drums have no punch and no groove on this demos, Brain is an amazing drummer, but what's this? It sounds "dry" to me. They should add a little bit more reverb on the drums (come on! GN'R is not a hip-hop Band) and up the drums volume. Really. It would sound way better. The dude was sick on the 02 Tour and at the VMa'02, he had an incredible punch! Love his drums playing.
Come on Brain, you can do better than those demos. : ok:

well, listen to Adler.....KICK, SNAR, KICK, SNAR......no different dude!!!

Maybe something to do with the fact that it sounds like it's a Drum Machine on the demos.

its a demo for gods sake stop complaining.  ::)

DEMO ?::)

I actually loved the combination of drum samples and regular drumming. stop complaining

That's not  a question of combinaison, that's a question of the way they are played.

It's most likely and sounds like a DRUM MACHINE so I wouldn't worry about it  : ok:


But as for GnR drummers go Brian is probably the worse, nothing personal to him.

adler did not play kick snare, kick, snare, kick, snare... that is why i love his playing...

No. he impressed me a lot in 2002. Listen to his drums on "nightrain" and the finish of "paradise city". He sounded huge.

In Your Opinon, not mine.

Matt Sorum, Steven Adler, Josh Freese I prefer them all, and that's my opinon, but this has nothing to do with the demos/topic so I'll not bring it up again.

its a drum machine on the demos
brain is very good. I have seen him with Buckthead, Primus, and Gnr. He is much better than Sorum who was boring.

You got it.? From what I've seen Brain is a beast behind the kit.

Part of the demos are a drum machine, but there is still real drum playing in them.? Listen to the songs with headphones, you can hear the difference.  I think some of you might be confused cause both IRS and Better start off with a drum machine, but then a real beat kicks in.  The drum machine part does sound very dry.

That said, I don't have a problem with the drumming.? I think the combination of a drum machine with the real drumming sounds great!

You're saying theres drum machine on There Was A Time? (maybe in the beginning)

If anyone is playing on the demos its josh and not brain. The short version of IRS does not even have BH. Its Axl, Paul, Robin, Tommy, and Josh if anyone is drumming at all.

No im saying I think the whole song is a drum machine

Dude IRS does so have bucket, your nuts if you think otherwise.

What are you listening with, your shoes?

sorum was nothing but a poser with terrible hair

I guess Dave meant Twat.

it's a demo.  great but still an early rough demo.

You think those are real drums? for Christ sakes............

yeah Id say Brain is the "best" drummer GNR eve had, he's better than Sorum and technically better than Steven to.

StoneTempleRoses

Well, I've listened to the demos hundreds of times and this very topic was fought internally within me for a while. ?I think they are real drums because I can pick up some of Brain's technique. ?Now, as for them sounding like shit...hello, its a demo. ?The mix is not even final. ?If for anything, the drums was just a one take that was used as a basis for the lyrics. ?I seriously doubt these are the end result. ?As for the simplicity of the beat...again, this is a demo that was more tailored to give Axl a beat to go on. ?Everyone who knows anything/seen anything on how records are made know that the drum track is usually laid first and is touched up later in the course of things for fills, retooling, re-cutting. ?Now, while Brain is a tremendous groove drummer, how do we know this ISN'T how Axl wanted the drums to sound. ?I've listened to Madagascar, The Blues, and CD enough to know that the drum beats are pretty simplistic in nature. ?Perhaps Axl isn't focusing on grandiose drum fills and rapid-fire precision this time around because it made them sound TOO polished on the Illusion albums. ?We have no idea what's going on with this album, and I think everyone needs to calm down a bit on whether the drums sound good or not. ?To me, the beat works for the songs, so I can't complain. ?Could they be higher in the mix? ?Hell yes. ?Could some harder fills, tempo changes, etc be included and make the song sound beefier? ?Shit yeah. ?But why waste all that energy on a rough demo that is not nearly indicative of the end product? ?Patience, my dear friends....we must have patience.

Guns has been known to use a drum machine in demo recordings from earlier (Crash Diet, Bring It Back Home, Sentimental Movie, Just Another Sunday), but that was maybe due to the in-between drummers period..

When I make demo songs at home, I play along to a DRUM MACHINE.

Guess what...

Axl does too.

If you think these are the final drums, you're mad.

notice a common theme with those songs :hihi:

Considering its just a demo....

Meh... I don't care about drums, but don't worry cuz they're only demos.

true that

For timing on the guitars and vocals more than anything. Brains handiwork will be much better : ok:

ADLER - 'nuff said

So far most of the drumming on the new GnR tracks has sounded like a drum machine.
I really hope the drumming situation improves with the final released album.

...and before you say 'they're only demos, not the real thing...' - I listend to 'The Blues' and 'Madagascar' lastnight, and both those songs, while featuring drumming by a drummer, the drum patterns seem basic and slow. The drumming seems to have taken a back seat when compared to older GnR material. Double Talkin Jive, You Could be Mine both contain really good drumming. Even It's so Easy and Paradise City have good drumming on them.

Hearing 'The Blues' again lastnight, the song sounds no where near as complex as i had thought it to be. There Was a Time and Better sound so much better, i'm really liking these 2 new songs.

The drumming in "Better" is phenomenal--esp. heading into the chorus!

Did you hear Drums in Don't cry or Patience Live? It's basic, isn't?
The Blues is a song calm, so it can't have drums like DTJ or You Could Be Mine.
And
Better has a phenomenal drum.
The drums has to be part of music, has to be in the rhytm

Brain really stands out on Better. Its great especially during the chorus

I cant wait to hear "The General"...Dizzy said it was Brains song so Im sure he stands out on that track as well

I ain't gonna judge the drums until I hear the record.

I actually quite liked the drumming on the final part of twat, most of the other stuff is drum machine.

Agreed.

that's real drums on the songs for sure. I'd say even the intros might be real drums with some effect on them.
anyhow, there is absolutely no point in even discussing the drums on these demos cos you can only hear the basic stuff he does. if you listen REALLY good hear and there you can hear some comboes he does.
but they're just demos.

I expect the drums to be louder and a LOT clearer on the finished cuts. cos all of Brain's previous work that Ive heard is really crisp sounding, that's one of the things I love about his work. that and the fact that he's a fucking genious behind the kit!

listen to the fills that the drums are doing, they are your typical generic pre-programmed drum machine fills.

if there are any real drums on those demos there isn't much.

And when have you heard Josh Freese play drums?

I feel the exact opposite. I think Brain is the best drummer GN'R ever had.
Have you heard him with any other bands?

He was in this band called Perfect Circle. You might have heard them once or twice on the radio.

Do we know for sure whos even playing on these tracks?

I think it's Brain. Im pretty sure I hear his signatures here and there.

Nobody heard the awesome drums at TWAT ending? Damn... This is obviously not a drum machine...

in a word, weak

Check out some of Brain's technical skills here: http://www.drummerworld.com/Videos/Brianmantiagogobeat.html

This guy's got some skills!!!  : ok:

Drums on the new song are Brain's AND looped tracks.
I just that Brain is keeping the drumming simple most of the time, maybe because Axl wanted it that way but, who knows.

On Evanescence's 'Fallen' album.

There's real drums all over those tracks. It's like somebody said it a mixture of a drum machine and real drumming.  It reminds me of "The Tea Party, a great Canadian band. Their drummer Jeff use to switch back and forth quite a bit, amzing drummer.

There are some really cool fills at the end of Catcher. It sounds like Josh to me, sounds kindla like some things I heard on APC. And in "Better" during the real heavy part there is some open high hat work, real high hats too.

Most of the demos are using a drum machine.

Ok, don't read posts before yours. :P

There's drum machine in those beats (used like a sample), but there's also real drums. The "drum machine" is used in just some little parts, mostly the slow interludes.

Anyone who thinks TWAT, Better and CITR doesn't have a real drummer ALSO should just give up - they have no use to their ears.

ITs already been said but most bands use a drum machine and bring the drummer in later to do the part.

they play with the machine to stay in time etc and to get an idea of the feel of a song.

So the drums could be completely different just like certain songs may have intro's etc once they are finished.

After listening to Better it?s easy to tell that that?s not the machine, and like other poster have mentioned, Brain's drumming is pretty much recognizable and it?s there on those demos.
Although, personally, I really don't like him as GNR drummer. Sorum, Freese or even Psycho Adler are better.
Hopefully the record will change my opinion though... let?s see.

HELLO!!

Listen to the illusion albums. " hat, snare, kick, hat, snare, kick.... tom tom tom."

The illusions were far from brillant in terms of drum ideas...

I will say adler had way more groove. BUTTTTTTT

the illusions had more room for other musical ideas.

This album is not going to be a drum orchestra.

axl has never adopted that idea.... but the drums will groove.

the leaks are demos. with drum machine ideas. 85 of the drums are not real.

Brain is werid but a great drummer, no need to worry about that.

The drums on these demos are definately lacking substance. Except on Catcher in The Rye and the real heavy part in better. The verse in better, could be played by someone who has taken drum lessons for 2 weeks. I think in some parts the drum machines sound awesome, but at the same time it makes me mad because if they have a kickass drummer like Brain he should be playing all the drum parts. They're just demos though and I'm assuming on democracy the drums will be louder and sharper.

I think Brain is the best drummer Axl has ever played with !
Matt Sourum soundes so flat and boring and Steven Adler couldnt play after a while due to his drug habbit.
Conclusion: Brain is good : ok:

I remember reading a piece on Brain a few years back where he was gushing about a new electro kit that he had purchased.  I think that sound will feature prominently on the record but, that being said, drums in demos are normally present for time keeping purposes.  I've got all the confidence in the world in his abilities...Let's await the final product before we presume too much.

Axl (November 1993) :
"We're into the idea of letting Matt go more off on his own in the drumming department of GN'R, because on the "UYI" he was playing what we wanted to hear. On the record, he's one of the most amazing drummers I've ever heard, but he's better than that. When Matt goes off on his own creative scent, it's even more extreme than what was on the "UYI" albums. I want to facilitate that getting out and Matt just exploding."

I disagree, As much as i dislike and utterly hate Steven Adler, I must give the man his props, Popcorn is probably next to Tommy Lee, the greatest drummer of my generation.

Proof is in the proverbial Appetite For Destruction pudding.

As much as I hate Adler, his drum shit on Appetite is some of the most brilliant drumming Ive ever heard.

He has drum beats that u can fuckin sing a long to.

that is very rare.

I believe Izzy called it the proverbial "push-pull" dynamic.  Say what you will about Popcorn, but the man had swing.  Sorum is more of a dry, technical player, while Brain is a groove guy through and through...Should be interesting to see how he accents the new songs.

I really believe that Brain's drumming on the finished album will sound amazing. The guy is
awesome! 8)

Listen to the drums on the garden demo than on UYI I, its much differnt.

I really hope that everyone is right about the drum machine.  That's been my biggest disappointment so far with the new demos.  Makes me wonder what Josh Freese was doing for two years though.  That guy cranks out songs with ease for so many bands...  So did Axl delete his stuff and replace him with a drum machine?  Except for Better, these are all older songs that Freese should have been around to play on.

And am I the only one who can't hear any bass from Tommy?  I hope he's up in the mix in the final product.