Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I have feared this for a long time now and after hearing the songs I am really concerned.

When I first heard Better I was very disappointed, when I heard TWAT, I was very disappointed.

I realized the reason for this was because My expectations are so high, its like i was expecting songs and music that I had never heard before.

there are really no riffs, the guitar playing is ok nothing earth shattering. lyrically there isnt a whole lot of new ground being broke.


I realized though that the songs are great its just my expectations are so high that im not sure if my expectations could ever be met by anything.

I am very tolerant though and realized what i was doing which is why I can now fully appreciate these songs and love em like no other.

problem is, ive learned that most arent as tolerant as i am.

So do u feel CD is probably DOOMED by high expectations and cause of the mystique?

I found myself comparing the guitar playing to Slash immediately and I dont wanna start a Slash vs NewGNR debate but  i couldnt help but wonder how much better the songs would be.

Dude, I know exactly what you're saying 100% and felt the same untill I heard the complete 'Better' clip.

It's exactly the kind of thing that I was hoping for - wicked riffs, great lyrics and musically challenging.

Now I can't wait for the album.

@#?$Funker

I think regardless of your expectations you have to listen to it with an open mind. ?Keeping in mind that these are also demos......and probably will change substantially. ?You really can't compare it with old GNR, and I'm pretty sure Axl wouldn't want you to. ?It's new, fresh air and all. ?Just open your mind, listen and enjoy. ?Regardless if it sucks or it rocks beyond all compare, I believe Axl gave it his all and I'm gonna be a fan. ?I love the new demos, I think I've sickened myself pretty much of all old GNR stuff because I've listened to every song about 90000000000 times over the past 17 years and that stuff although great just doesn't fulfill me anymore like it used to.

People have already said that they havent heard anything that is on par with WTTJ,PC<SCOM etc etc but the thing is, those songs have been in our conscienceness for almost 20 years, so its impossible for something to capture that right away.

People expecting AFD type stuff are gonna hate this though but i think it is amazing. u cant compare it with any of the previous stuff though, its like comparing a lion to a bear, its a completely different animal and i hope people realize that.

I thought you weren't gonna listen to the songs, D. You gave in, eh?

Fuck yeah u bastards, My will power was low but after reading and reading, I had no choice.


its cool though, we still got a lot to surprise us.

im not gonna listen to anymore though.......... :nervous: :nervous: :nervous: at least i hope not.

after Merck said the album wasnt finished I said fuck it.

What will make or break the album doing well is whether the general population warms up to the album. All of the die hard gnr fans could think its the best thing ever and it could still tank.

This is partly Axl's fault for keeping the name (I suppose people would have compared anyway tho). People are always gonna keep comparing the old band with the new and it just can't be done.

This is a new band, in a new musical climate, with a new generation of possible fans.

This is my approach: I listen and I either like it or I don't. The thought of comparing it with music from ten years ago doesn't even cross my mind. I don't care who's playing what solos, who's in and who's out, how much it will sell, or how much of the green stuff is gonna be made, it's all about the music.

If people aren't here for the music, then I feel sorry for them.

@#$%Funker

I think with the AFD songs, they were so big b/c nothing else sounded like them, but it was still hard rock.  They basically took what was currently out at the time and gave it steroids - but it was still rock.  GNR didn't completely change music, they just took it the next level.

I think people want Axl to rock again, to come out with those arena rock type songs that have great hooks and choruses that you can sing along too, but that also kick your ass.  Thats really the only expectation I have.  If I have to mentally prepare myself for a radically different sound, and I'm a HUGE gnr fan, the avg person won't be ready for it.  Maybe thats why we're seeing the leaks....to gauge interest and feedback?

These are demos because theres still work to be done, for sure. But it's a start, and in many cases a good start. Think of past demos. Some hit close to the mark, some didn't. The music will stand up to expectations, imo.

The average person who has listened to a lot of the old Guns? - Maybe. However, your average record buying kid who hears stuff on the radio and the TV and then buys it is ready for anything and won't even think about comparing, or care about what the old band sounded like.

This has to be looked at as a new band.

@#$%Funker

Edit: It it quite possible that these demos are only the tip of the iceberg and so we haven't got a clue what the rest of the album is gonna sound like - which would be quite funny. I mean, Better is only one song out of 32?

Compared to music today though, this shit is Beatlesque

Amen to that!  :beer:

To many kids it is a new band since they weren't aware of gnr in the 90's. It could end up working in their favor if the marketing goes well.

Yes  : ok:

In fact lets all have a beer, it's been a hard days work.  :beer:

u cant compare different era's of a bands catalog

I mean we have heard Appetite for so long that anything new isnt gonna be better simply cause we already have such a connection with the old stuff.


this is why I am not comparing it or doing anything like that. I am just tryin my best to hear it for what it is and so far i am pretty mesmerized by it.

I'd say yes.

I was reading some back articles on this board and there was one that struck me.  An old manager back in Jan 2000, saying Magazine to Rolling Stone the music was 99% done and the vocals were 80% and it should be done Feb/Mar for a June / July release.  Some of the titles kicked around were IRS, TWAT, and I forget the 3rd (I think Catcher in the Rye)

That was six fucking years ago and at the time, RS Magazine reported he had been working on it for 6 years.

To me, there's something wrong when you're kicking the same songs around for12 years.  What more can be done to them?  Especially after hearing them..

It seems a classic case of overanalysis causing paralysis and Axl is paralyzed into taking any action

Problem as well is so many people on this board are saying, well i did not like it but after ten listens....


.....well we're prepared to take our time and listen over and over again...

...Joe Public isn't :no:

Everyday fan hears, this album was 10+ years in the making and you get the old where's Slash bollocks.

Thing is yeah the songs are good, but i think they would have more chance of being successful if they were released by Axl Rose NOT Guns N' Roses ;)

But who knows they may be a big success anyway.....

....I hope so

Album is going to be good ?there is no doubt in my mind ? but it will fail miserably for 3 reasons( this may be unfair but it's just the way it is) 1. ?It will not be groundbreaking ? ? 2. ?Axl waited so long and his management hyped this up big time including Axl at times . ? 3 ? the biggest reason of all ? ?he is using GNR name ?and people will always compare this band to the ?old band ?and that my friends ?is an impossible task to win ? there is no band ?and will never be another band that had the charisma ?and the sleasy fuck you attitude ?the old band did. ? ? period ?end of story. ? I will still buy the new album with great enthusiasm ?because ?i'm sure Axl will do a decent job and can't wait to hear Axl singing again with new material.

I think thers is MUCH MORE to the story then just that (I hope so at least, b/c if what you said IS the whole story then WTF has been going on).  But I think a lot of this has been held up on b/c of legal issues behind closed doors.  Or maybe you're 100% right.  Either way, I just hope we find out after CD drops and Kurt Loder or RS gets the exclusive Axl interview.

Fuck RS and KL...BARBARA FUCKING WALTERS SHOULD INTERVIEW AXL :)

I'll take that beer now MotherFunker  :beer:

Every year that passes, the expectations grow higher.  No matter what, not everyone will be please.  I've gotten over expecting a bluesy, guitar driven album a long time ago.  All you have to do to tell it's not going to be that is by listening to the new songs from 2002.  The new songs are all that I could hope for realistically, I'm not disappointed in what I've heard at all.  It's not old GnR, and it's not trying to be.  The new songs blow away what VR did, that much I'm happy about.  An EP with finalized studio versions of The Blues, Madagascar, Chinese Democracy, Rhiyad, Better, TWAT and IRS would still be better than the music anyone's making today IMO

there on this website in the articles archives......

Listen to Better again. Name me one other song like it that has a catchy pop vibe and then turns into a kick ass metal jam.

Posted this in another thread but thought it fit in this one too so i copied it over, sorry if you've already read it

Well, I think CD has 2 things against it....us the diehards having rediciously high expectations and the non die hards that are expecting the old GNR sound.    With that said...I am one of the diehards that was ready for anything and didn't expect a thing...I just want to hear the music then make the judgement cuz quite honestly with Axl's talk of evolving over the past 13 years the times he did talk about it..I really didn't know what to expect, much less have the expectations ludicrisly high.

I don't think CD is doomed by expectations of the general public, when it comes out there will obviously be a lot of people mentioning that its 10 years in the making etc and the general public will hear this and rightly expect a good album because of that, but i also think Axl is more than capable of delivering the goods. Most general music fans have not bothered themselves with knowing the progress or story of Axl and CD and probably won't until it comes out. The trouble is some of the die hard GNR fans have actually been eagerly waiting for 10 years for this album and all the mystique and rumour surrounding it, and the expectations of CD amongst the GNR community have grown way beyond anything that i think 1 album can match. Luckily for Axl the people with highest expectations are the people who will still buy the album anyway.

I hear you there D.

I sense that Axl is really relaxed through his recent appearances and comments and ready to put this thing out. Because of the time period that has elapsed, everyone is going to expect every song to be a 10/10 masterpiece.

Fact is that they might be 7/10's or 8/10's which if the album was out after a year everyone would have thought was cool. There could be many reasons why Axl took so long to do this we just don't know.

I'm not expecting perfection, just enjoyable new kick ass tunes.

I'm not sure if it's doomed because of peoples expectations or not. Yesterday I played better in my office whilst a mate (who isn't into gnr) was sat around. I was saying how cool it was that gnr were back and that it was a new song. The funny thing was he said to him it just sounded like plain old gnr, nothing different from what he remembers. So maybe from our point of view i.e. big fans of the band we're more open to disappointment because we've waited and wanted for so long but to the casual music listener it's just gnr. and if they like it they'll buy it.

The only Doomed (of want of a better word) aspect of CD could be that lack of rawness created only when a band is in a room all jamming together all being at the same level. CD's only downfall might be it's over complicatedness and over constructed feel (built on a computer, assembled, over thought about to the point of a finnal blurred vision).

The one good thing about the new album (if it sounds anything like the leaked demos) is it is not simply more of the same (old GnR). The new direction is interesting. The demos do sound over fragmented, poorly mixed, but hey, Buckethead's own music is like that, i like it, it is hard to get until, which could alienate some fans, and alienate your average dude too.

Some of my friends, who are fully aware of GN'R but have not involved themselves in the cult of Chinese Democracy have said they think the new songs are awesome. So I think our expecations are probably over inflated, having said that I love the new tracks though...it really kicked in for me when I heard the full version of better....

I had high expectations for SMiLE and it wasn't a revelation when I first heard it but the more you listen the better it gets - like all good albums should be. And I expect CD to be much the same, a grower.

Yes, they are.? Because this is not AFD.? It's also not UYI.? They need to realize...it's been almost 20 years since AFD.....

The songs we've heard so far sound exactly like I would expect GnR to have sounded if they evolved with the times and had been releasing material over the past 10 to 14 years.? Yes, they sound different.? So does Aerosmith from the stuff they released back in the 80's (or the 70's for that matter).? So does Metallica (for better or worse...).? So do MOST other bands who have actually survived, and thrived, for the long haul.? It's an evolutionary sound, IMHO.

On the original question...I don't think it's doomed, no.? I think, eventually, the music will speak for itself.? But yes, it's going to have some trials to overcome, and a shadow to crawl out from under.? The media and the radio DJ's are going to forever compare this stuff..unfairly, I might add...to the old stuff.? It's what they do (and get paid to do).? They're going to bash Axl because he's an easy target but, more importantly, because doing so gets them readers/ratings/viewers because, let's face it, Axl is interesting.

But I think, in the end, the album will speak for itself.? And, if the demos we have are any indication, it's going to do it pretty well, if not amazingly well.? The music is good.? The rest will fall into place by itself, provided Axl doesn't do something stupid and self-destruct (like missing any of the festival dates, for example).

With the old fans, there are two ways this will go.
There are the fans that will be so happy to have anything at all that they won't be disappointed.
Or there will be the ones whose expectations weren't met.

I don't think there's a band in the history of music that can live up to 13 years of anticipation. Maybe 2 or 3 or 5 or 6, but 13?! That would have to be the most earth-shattering record ever. And even then, there would be people that don't like it.

Don't get me wrong, I've got expectations for this thing, too! I've been here waiting with the rest of you... but I'll probably end up being one of the ones that will be happy with anything at this point.

I think Jenna makes a good point....its been SOOOOO long (as you all know).  As fans we haven't been growing with Axl since hes done pretty much nothing for over a decade.  So his musical tastes/styles may have changed somewhat gradually over the years but theres no transition for us fans (unless you count My World?? hehe).  Its UYI to Better - whereas Axl has been playing with these songs for a decade....who knows what Better FIRST sounded like you know?

So the new sound might sound good to Axl, but its going to shock some fans at first.  I'm really glad radios are playing the leaks and letting people get a feel for the material before its actually released.

Okay, lets make this totally clear:

if you want to compare...Compare these demos to earlier GNR demos...They're both very mediocre.

Chances are these demos are from 2002-2003.

Stinson has said the reason for the delay is because so many people collabortated and Axl is basically
changing songs all the time to find what works best.......So far the only quality completed songs we've heard are:
Madagascar, The Blues, and CD...With rumours that CD may not even make final cut....

Gotta love that.

"Better" is as good as anything GN'R has ever put out.

I know this CD will kick major fucking ass.

the only question I have reagrding this band and album is the production of the album. If they get it right, this album is gonna be a masterpiece.....

i think this quote describes well the point i am trying to make with this post.
this is the follow-up to the great use your illusion albums we are talking about here, 15 years later. i've thought about this quite alot but it really struck me when listening to the new leaks on my headphones last night, that i am actually listening to new guns n' roses material here, which is amazing, and not only that, but it's totally up to par and will carry the gnr legend further for decades to come! i can tell this from a couple of demos and live tracks, imagine what a whole album of this stuff will do to the music world. i always believed massively in axl's talent and i'm proud to have followed him all these years, but even i am totally blown away by the quality of this material. there was a time had me in awe, the solo gave me goosebumps, better and madagascar both brought tears to my eyes, the blues is hauntingly good and could be a epic straight out of the use your illusion era. i always knew this project would be well worth the wait but jesus christ, i never imagined anything like this. axl rose will silence all his critics when he feels ready to release this monster of an album, people will see who was the real talent in gnr and that axl rose is capable of doing what no other rock bands can do today, not just reach the heights of the old guns n' roses but also manage to give a worthy follow-up to two of the best rock albums ever made, this time on his own. i'm glad axl never gave into pressure with this record as he did with the illusions, the pay-off, in his own words, will be that much greater.

The first time I listened to Estranged on the UYI albums, I thought "WTF is this"....I wasn't a huge fan...then I listened to it over and over again because, even though I wasn't a huge fan, it was oddly compelling.  The more I listened, the more I liked it.  Eventually, it grew on me until now it's one of my favorite GnR songs.

The first time I listened to Coma, I thought "This is crap!".  It just didn't sound anything like AFD, or GnR, to me.  Then, I put that aside, and really listened to the song.  Again, it quickly became one of my favorite GnR tunes.

This material...all of it...reminds me of some of those type of UYI tracks.  If you put aside that it's "GnR" for a sec, and really listen to the stuff, you can't really help but be impressed considering these are demos.

CD is far from doomed.  It's just going to have to overcome some preconceived notions....and I think that might be Axl's goal, in the first place.

This sums up my feelings perfectly. From what I hear from people who have been around since the Illusions were released, people are doing the same thing as back then. Oh, these songs dont sound like Guns. This sucks and all this other stuff. But once they realize that Axl is going for something different, then they appreciate it. He's just evolving. Going back all the way to 1987 at the CBGB Axl said that the music was going to keep evolving and be musically diverse. Its nothing new, Axl always had a vision to be creative and do something different with each record. With that said, these new songs fucking kick ass, i am totally impressed. Its what I have been waiting for, for a long time. Nothing in today's music is better than these songs.

I think it all depends on what your expectations are.  Will it go platinum?  I think its pretty safe to say "YES".

My expectations sales wise are more then ContraBand, less then UYI's. 

Music wise, I'm sure I'll dig it - not sure about the average listener though.  Will be very interesting.  The material will speak for itself though....if its a good song it won't matter who is singing, who is playing guitar or what the name of the band is or how long its been since the last album. 
I find when it comes to music, its the sound that matters most in the long run.  All the glitz and glam can make something appear to sound good or be popular, but that kind of fame is fleeting.  All the big GNR hits are still in the publics conscience b/c they are GOOD songs. 

Its like when U2 went from Joshua Tree to Achtung Baby....pretty different sound and look for the band, but it didn't matter b/c the songs were still amazing.....the music is what mattered.

"Just" by Radiohead :smoking:

Hey, I know it's 10 years old but it popped into my head, and you did say name 1.

I have to admit though, "Better" is a tremendous song, best thing I've heard Axl do with the new group(s) so far.

I've never heard that song.

Well expand your horizons then friend! There's more to life than GnR!

Do yourself a favor & get "The Bends".

Initial reactions are trickly; I have found the songs that mattered the most to me took a few listens to sink into my consciousness. This has happened with TWAT.

i also think alot of the problems with TWAT is the low quality sound of the demo; there is orchestration there but it is hard to hear. The studio version will definately clear up those problems.

I really have no problems with expectations because all of my expectations have been met so far. TWAT and Better are incredible songs, heavy in meaning and sound. I thoroughly enjoy the vocal melody and lyrics. Robin and Bucket have both had their moments of brilliance as well. I now hope to hear Brain go wild on one of these tracks. :)

Right on- that's why i feel personally this will be the most polarizing record (in terms of reaction) that will have come out in the last decade. You will see a sharp distinction between fans/critics/general rock fans who are able to get past the fact that this is a different band and those who can't. we're already seeing it with the demos! But axl, from his january comments, clearly understands this-and appears ready to let the work speak and let the chips fall where they may.

Actually i think that it may meet the sales of UYI and sell as many if not more then uyi did they day it came out. More and more ppl are listening to gnr everyday and peple are still just finding out about AFD so i think CD will be fuckin insanely HUGE!

I would be more then happy to be wrong in this case :)

For me it's either going to be great or bad. Unlike D, I'm not obsessed with an album.

I work on the theory that a band is only as good as their guitarists. Therefore i expect it to be pretty damn good.

good luck with that : ok:

I don't think that is a very realistic expectation given that Axl has fought so hard to tell anyone who will listen that this IS Guns N' Roses.

The General Public would tell you that if you want to be thought of as your own entity and not compared to the old band, calling yourself Guns N' Roses probably isn't the best way to ask people not to look at you with a certain colored pair of glasses on.

Axl knew that was going to be a problem, so if GNR is doomed to never get out from under the shadow of the old band, he has no one to blame but himself. It is kind of stupid to call yourself GNR and then get upset/defensive when people complain you don't sound like GNR anymore.