Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Anyone think it is crazy that these radio stations aren't getting shut down for playing the leaks. Remember when Nirvana In Utero leaked and radio stations started playing tracks from it, they played them for about 5 minutes before they all got shut down. Funny that these radio stations are playing the new Gn'R tunes and have been for 2 days with absolutely no repercussions. Though stations did play Fiona Apple's Extrodinary Machine... oh yeah that's right, she wanted them to play the leak... I forgot. She released the Demos purposely because the album was delayed so long that they needed to feel out the market and generate hype and it worked. Later, not much later the studio version was released and it was nominated for a grammy. Hmmm... that's funny.

good point!!! i do think its strange that stations haven't been stopped yet!

Maybe they have, how many are reported to played the tracks more than once?

like 2 i think

besides i thought you were in the loop 'Oh My Choking Soul' ??? why don't you tell us

Places weren't shut down - they were just prevented from playing it. The same thing is happening now.

It works like this - the DJ knows he can play it at least once before he gets in shit. So he sneaks it in, thinking, either a) record company won't notice that he played it (50/50) or b) they'll send a C&D and then he'll stop.

This happens with leaks all the time. It's nothing new.

Don't fool yourself into thinking that the label/management is gonna bite the hand that feeds them and really crack down. The labels don't care about the fans and will fuck them over as they see fit, but the radio stations are a marketing machine for them.

As wide-spread as the leak is, it'll have to be alot of cease-and-disist letters.  Axls lawyers are gonna have to put in some serious overtime. :rofl:

I think it's crazy that 5 1/2 minutes of music generated 4.5 pages of thread topics in two days :rofl:

Bing, bing! Post of the day.

Unfortunately your information on how radio stations handle leaks is grotesquely inaccurate. ?Leaks are a no-no, bar none. ?If you are an independantly-owned station, you (the DJ) are giving a grace of honor not to fuck up. ?If you fuck up and a cease and desist is sent to the station, best-case scenario, you've had some privileges revoked for a period of time. ?Worst-case scenario - you're fired.

For stations owned by the big corporations (Clear Channel), you are not allowed to deviate from their setlist of songs. ?Most stations nowadays are run via a computer and you have no control over what's played (aside from DJ cues, in-studio guests, and listener calls), as its all fed into the database beforehand and all you have in front of you is the soundboard and a touchscreen computer monitor with the rotation list queued up with the next 10 songs/commercials listed. ?If you do manage to play something that is not "approved" by the music director, you get a slap on the wrist that is equal to the loss of airtime, promotional audio production, or promotional appearances/free swag (think concert tickets and the ability to see sneak previews for movies, backstage at a concert, interviewing celebs, etc.). ?A second infraction is an immediate suspension for a predetermined amount of time. ?Anything after that, you're booted. ?Having worked for both an independant station AND a major CC station, I've seen it happen. ?The worst was when that U2 song Discotech (sp) was leaked on the 'net...mind you, it was crap quality, but it was not allowed nonetheless. ?The guy lost his "premium" airshift, all his production time was slashed (this is the only time you're able to work on stuff to promote your shows, cut commercials for extra cash -- DJs make dick when it comes to the radio --, and other miscellaneous tasks you need the time for), and he was put on administrative probation that equated to no field promotions/activities for a year. ?Certain stations may be more relaxed, but considering the policy I signed when JaCor Communications was bought by CC, it was strictly forbidden to play anything NOT approved for airing by the CC legal and music departments. ?And that was just one of the straws that broke the camel's back and forced me out of the radio business...fuck working for the Man.

At about 25 topics a page, that's roughly 113 topics for 5 1/2 minutes of music; a demo and a 80 sec sample.

After I heard them the 1st time, I never thought there would be that much to discuss :rofl:

so

what you are saying is
 that all of these radio plays
 have been most likely OK'd by GNR's managment

WAAF out of Boston is going to play in every hour on the hour starting at 5:00 today.

I have a question...if the radio stations get a cease and desist and they don't comply and then the record co. reallly comes down hard.....can the radio stations boycott gnr when they do officially release...like sorta sticking it to them and getting them back for coming down on them playing the leaks...like a tit for tat.   


I am just saying...If management has nothing to do with the leaks I sorta agree that the radio stations shouldn't play them.    As they are getting air time and not getting paid but stil the publicity is great on the flip side....there are sooooo many pros and cons to this situation. :o

Thank you for clearing it up! Alot of people are clueless on how a DJ (announcer) really has no control over what he plays. I work in radio very small market, I stay here because #1 I dont want to go to one of the evil empires (Clear Channel). #2 The pay is decent. Since I work in small market I'm lucky that I have complete control over what I play and what I do. I however will not play IRS on WTNS Coshocton for the simple fact that it has not been a offically released single. Once Media Base, Radio and Records start showing add's then I will start adding the song to my air shift. For those in east central Ohio you can get your Guns fix every night at 10:55 as I always end my shift with a different GnR song.
With everyone keep a list of what stations that are playing IRS I hope GnR management keeps track of it and forbids the stations from playing any future Guns tracks. Would be a nice Fuck You from Axl to the stations playing the leaks.

"With everyone keep a list of what stations that are playing IRS I hope GnR management keeps track of it and forbids the stations from playing any future Guns tracks. Would be a nice Fuck You from Axl to the stations playing the leaks"

With stupid ideas like that, you should get into management  ;D

Hey I have waited a very long time for this album and I think we are closer than we have ever been before. I just dont want the release of Chinese to be fucked up because some radio station wants to be the "cool" one playing a never heard Guns song.

HAHAHAH!!

Listen.. its an unfinished demo.. no station will get in "trouble" Axl has no power over them and they will continue to play it.

I don't want it to get f'ed up either.. but not allowing stations that play this demo to play future releases is not a realistic reaction. ?93x is located in about the 14th largest media market in the country and is one of the biggest "rock" stations in the country. ?Sancturary/Axl/Merck/Dizzy's wife may be pissed at them, but they ain't going to ban a station that size from playing new GnR music even if they could

I've only been in direct contact with two stations and heard this second hand about two or three more.  Does anyone find it really, really, and I mean REALLY odd that the stations aren't being asked to stop?

I mean, look, we know what happened when IRS played on Trunk's show.  GNR's management descended like "Winston Wolff" from Pulp Fiction and made the story disappear.  I mean, disappear to the point that even the recording of people TALKING about the song was erased.

Fast forward to now.  You've got stations playing IRS, Better (well, the part of it we have, anyway), and even T.W.A.T.  Hell, freaking IRS is winning "battle of the songs" type competitions on certain stations.

Now, I am SURE that management knows about this.  I can't imagine that Merck just decided this would be a good weekend to go on African Safari without celphone access or something.  So, the big question is, what the hell is up?

In addition, don't radio people have to clear playing this crap through management?  This whole thing just SCREAMS coordinated effort.  Now i'm not saying that the leaks themselves were intentional, but perhaps Sanctuary realized there's no putting the genie back in the bottle, and 'changed tactics' when it comes to radio stations playing this stuff?

I'm serious when I say a multi-million dollar marketing budget doesn't buy you this kind of attention - not this quickly, and certainly not with this much.. fervor.

Fascinating.

-darknemus

Seems really odd to me, GNR management is usually all about silence and suppression.

Only thing I can think of is that now that it's the weekend their response is slower than it would be during the week.

If we don't hear anything by the middle of next week, I will be stunned.

so merck asking fan sites to stop the leaking was bullshit?
i don't buy this.
never say never though when it comes to gnr.

yep. at teh same time, it's wierd the management asked us not to link to the songs. wierd indeed. indeed. marketing is at another level here. :)

It is odd, but this whole week has been odd re: Guns n Roses!

Great post, Dark. It is very strange. Ever since the stations have been playing them, I['ve expected to see news that they were forced to pull the songs from rotation. Maybe the instant buzz and positive response stopped management from intervening.

Has anyone actually received a letter from management or something to ask them not to share links...? All I've seen is people saying they got an email and Mysteron's post. I'm not saying I don't believe them, but that's just kinda odd.

Axl released the demos

That's the only reason I can think of to why the radio stations are still playing the songs, and that the responce to remove links from the internet is to not raise suspicion because that is what you would expect them to say.

We get nothing for YEARS and all of a sudden we have all this (tour rumours, lots of Axl sightings, Axl photos leaked songs). It can't be coincidence

this is totally different, this time they have no control, its a direct internet leak, not some radio station playing it once. Maybe we have heard nothing from them because they cant figure out a way to stop it. and they cant. Its such a crime you know its TRUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, I am certain they asked fan sites to not do it, not share links, etc.  Probably because they don't want it done so blatantly 'on the surface'.  (Not to mention they HAVE to aggressively protect their intellectual property..its always that way..I'm not sure of the legalities there, but something about if you don't always fight infringement activities, you somehow risk it going into the public domain)

However, I'm cetain that they ALSO know that all of these fans are sending links / files back and forth behind the scenes over and over and over again, even if the boards are jumping all over link posting.  (Which I feel they should do, btw - the boards shouldn't assume risk as a contributory party)

However - the radio thing is different.  It strikes me really weird.. especially given their reaction to Trunk.  Its like, telling your kid no and scolding him but then 5 minutes later slipping him a cookie anyway behind mom's back, you know?  Just weird.

-darknemus

MOST radio stations these days are owned in some capacity be CLEAR CHANNEL.

Seems as if a single cease order would be enough to stop it.

too bad the whole word doesnt care. we only have ourselves to talk to ;)

This can mean only one thing...invasion.

I really hope we hear the big new we are all waiting for soon. I mean soon as in soon. As in the next few days.

A couple more quick things.  RE: Management being slow because its a weekend.

A. When the Trunk thing happened that Labor Day night (or was it the Sunday before Labor day?  Sorry, its early and I don't exactly recall) - Management was over it like white on rice within MINUTES.

B. Merck carries a blackberry for a reason - he's "constantly" wired.  As are most CEO's of most companies.  I know that, in the past, he's put the kabosh on rumors at all hour of the day / night, regardless of the day of the week.

C. Guess what, if someone was hacking my servers at work - weekend or not, they'd damn well want me to respond.  Business doesn't just "stop running" at 5:00 on Friday every week.

-darknemus

This is odd, and a bit peculiar, but after all that was putinto this album monaterily , maybe this is the kinda promotion they want, cost then nothing, reaction for the most part has been overwelmingly positve, whats missing is what will be the first single.

Now think about this, what if all we heard are not on CD? What if outta the 8 tuners we have heard over the last yrs arent on CD, and a single we hear is totally from left field? Just speculation on my part, but I do love all I heard, and outa the last 3 IRS is teh weakest of the 3.

Well, especially since the first leaks happened during the night from thursday to friday.

That is certianly true Dark, but maybe something of this magnitude requires more input from the band and a collaboration between them and management before making a response ...

It's about all I can think of, really, other than that they wanted this leaked, which I do not think is the case, based on their past stands on these types of issues.

Great posts, all of them.

However, the most obvious reasoning sometimes it's been overlooked. 3 years ago management stop IRS to be played on radio cause Cd was not even close of being released. It was not in GNR interest to have radio stations all over the country playing a new gnr song when they have nothing to follow up with. No tour, no singles, no album...I guess they'd already learnt the hard way in 2002 when the tour cancelled. All that buzz then for nothing....

Now things have changed. We are in 2006. Since early in the year, all events lead to an inmediate album release. Axl being in the public eye again a few times, GNR playing CD in a NY club, Da Vinci Soundtrack rumor, the leaks...it's obvious that something is building up.

I believe GNR is behind these leaks simply because is a very cheap way to test the waters. Hey, the internet works wonders for this, so why not leak a few demos from a few years back and see the reaction from the members of a few boards. Hell, in this board there are more than 18 pages dedicated to each song! That's plenty of feedback right there. One may wonder, yes, but the links are no longer posted on the site, true, but this is supposed to be a leak, it can't be too obvious. Hey, go to HTGTH and download the songs from the "download leaks thread".? That will be too easy / obvious.

Yes, people are sending pm's back and forth but it's our decission to pm the links. It's not like this site should be responsible for that. Jarmo has done what he's been asked and delete all posts from the board contending the links.

As for the radio stations playing the songs, again, it's a very cheap way to bring GNR back in the public eye (or ear) again. They are demos and it may not be the best way to present your final product, but hey, the songs are been played and people are responding in a positive manner.

This is what GNR needed, a little bit of free exposure. Like Darknemus said, a $10million budget doesn't beat this kind of free advertising.

So yeah, GNR is behind the leaks and no, for the time being, it's not in their interest to stop radio playing the new songs. Why? So far so good...

is it possible that these clips just spread too quickly to too many stations that it became difficult to control and end it?

these are spreading electronically, not via an actual cd.

just a thought, i'm confused.

Not that we're all little kids here....

But what's the best way to make someone do something you want them to do?

TELL THEM NOT TO DO IT!!

Remember the old saying - rules are made to be broken.  That saying wouldn't have been around for so long if it wasn't true.  And of course like Dark was saying - it protects them in court etc in the future for copywrite issues etc if they show they adamatly 'disapprove' of things.

Either that or things just ballooned so large so quickly that there was no way in hell to contain it and rather than looking like douches and suing the pants of their meal ticket (ie the media) after a failed tour and such they're bending over on this one...

Probably a combination of both....

Someone must be taking President's Day weekend off (katrina).  How ironic. 

Well, while I am not implying that Merck & Co. are secretly allowing this to go down (I hate conspiracy theories), I do find it rather interesting that large market radio stations are playing this, and in the case of WAAF, every hour on the hour.  Cease and desist orders are sent with urgency, so even though the post office isn't open on Sunday, they will find a way to get it to the offending parties, be it express courier or a sheriff, and with the amount of exposure this forum and cd.com (the two forums I frequent) get from GnR Management, it seems odd that these stations are still playing these songs.  Someone in this thread had mentioned that its a demo, so there's nothing Axl can do, but that's blatantly erroneous.  All music played on the radio has to either a.) be licensed by ASCAP, BMI, etc or b.) solicited with the express permission from the performers to play it...neither condition has been met in this case.  I could see some random college kids and rogue internet radio stations playing these, but WAAF and 93X?  Its just too weird to me.

For stations owned by the big corporations (Clear Channel), you are not allowed to deviate from their setlist of songs. ?Most stations nowadays are run via a computer and you have no control over what's played (aside from DJ cues, in-studio guests, and listener calls), as its all fed into the database beforehand and all you have in front of you is the soundboard and a touchscreen computer monitor with the rotation list queued up with the next 10 songs/commercials listed. ?If you do manage to play something that is not "approved" by the music director, you get a slap on the wrist that is equal to the loss of airtime, promotional audio production, or promotional appearances/free swag (think concert tickets and the ability to see sneak previews for movies, backstage at a concert, interviewing celebs, etc.).  (Quote from: Pdj79 on Yesterday at 03:09:27 PM)


To make a side point, thats why FM sucks, management decides what is to be played. Good luck hearing a great song that doesnt sell really well.

Thats why satellite radio is so cool.

That is not? true. He can do one to clear channel which owns 90% of radio stations and they can send a bulk email to all their stations saying to stop.


As for the whole DJ thing and what songs are played on WAAF Carrie is the program director thus she is the one who put IRS into WAAFs playlist.

dave, has this been the greatest two days of your life since Illusions came out?  I know you have been waiting for this for such a long time.  I am happy for ya.

WCCC Hartford which is an independant has not received a Cease and Desist yet.  Very very strange.

TWAT was played twice on CCC already-late last night about 3am and today at 10am.

It was crazy, today on the radio on a Cleveland station, I heard a fucking commercial talking about them playing new Guns N' Roses songs this weekend.  It was nuts.  A FUCKING COMMERCIAL ON THE RADIO JUST ABOUT THEM PLAYING NEW GNR!!!!  That's fucking great!!  People in this area are going crazy over this.  I played the songs at work today to probably 30 different people and they all loved it.  The majority definitely liked 'Better' more than any other song.  I have to agree with that.  'Better' is one of the best songs I have heard in years.  It makes me want to get up and bang my fucking head on the wall!