Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I mean come on!  Sure GNR are getting alot of press today, but I can't imagine that Axl had this in mind.   These are demos!  The man has been working on this album for over 10 years, and the first taste that the mass public are getting of CD are some demos?  I refuse to listen to these leaks (it's just a personal preference, not a slam to everone who listened), but Axl doesn't deserve this.  We should be supporting Axl and allow him to lauch his masterpiece upon the public his way.

And before you reply that this leak is his plan think again.  There is know way Axl wanted this to go down the way it has.  Management did not approve of this leak, and Management speaks for Axl.

Some say there is no such thing as BAD publicity.


But until we hear something concrete from the band / management it's all just speculation.

Is Axl not the same person that endorsed acquiring bootlegs back when fans were waiting for the Illusion albums to come out?

I believe he is.

I think you're just being a freak.  unless your axl, you have no right to be pissed.  i say fuck the dictatorial attitude by some of the people on this board -  heretodaygonetohell democracy starts now!

I see both sides to the story to be honest.  But theres no point in bitching about it...SOMEONE is going to do it.  Its impossible to appeal to everyone to not do it.  You might as well just roll with the punches...it might suck that its happening, but it IS happening so.....what can you do?

Maybe Managementshould tell Axl to stop playing the album at every strip clud he goes to .I'm sure that isn't how the record company who funded the album want it to be heard either.

Who gives a fuck.. The fans finally got something back. "It happens"

I have no right to be pissed that something obviously not approved by Management is being played on public radio? ?Right. ?Oh, and watch the personal insults. ?I'm a hell of alot older than 12 so if you got insults, take it somewhere else.

Don't lose any sleep over it.



Deserve what, a demo of a song and a half leak and all of a sudden Axl is screwed ? Anyway if he just released t then there wouldn't be this mess.


That sounds like something from a cult

This happens all the time in the music industry, it's just a part of the game.  There's nothing that anyone can do about it, every album has songs leaked before it comes out and if they're from a big time band they get played on the radio until the record label shuts them down.  I actually find it amazing that with all this recording that's happened and all the people who have been involved, there's only been one song that got leaked and a short clip of another, that's actually pretty good.  The IRS demo leaked in 2003 I believe, although it wasn't widely available until last year.  The new version leaking doesn't really do any harm, in fact it is probably a good thing because it just makes the song seem a lot better by hearing a better version of it. 

I imagine they aren't happy about "Better" getting leaked, but fortunately for the band it's only a short clip, and the response has been overwhelmingly positive and if anything has just given the fans more hope and made us that much more excited to hear the whole song, and the whole album  :peace:

For the fans, maybe, it's been a long time.
On the radio, no, there demo's nothing more nothing less.
As an artist that's not how you want to be on the radio after all those years.

HAHAHAHA.. classic.

Listen.. who cares? Axl isn't going to quit music cause a demo got to the radio.. Maybe he will open his eyes and relize the fan base is still there and he should do something about it.

you're wrong. While this is a "demo", the quality of the product is impeccable. That means it had to have come from an original, master source. There is no plausible way that someone managed to steal a copy of this highly protected music without someone high up not knowing about it. Figure it out dude. Radio stations can't just download unreleased songs and play them without some HUGE repercussions. This was intended to happen. Just look at the buzz being created from this song. This was specifically intended to be let loose for a short period of time to get a feel for the audience, to build more hype. Now that we have seen this is the case, I'd be willing to wager a large amount the fact that CD comes out with an official single in the next two weeks, and is released like originally said in the end of March.

The quality is nowhere close to CD quality.

I think the fact that this new, much higher quality version of IRS appeared on the same day as a sample clip of "Better" is telling.  I recall last year the management made a statement after the original leak of IRS that was something along the lines of they'd like to release a higher quality version of IRS but the record label won't allow it.  There is no harm in releasing a high quality version of a song that's already been leaked for months, and there's not a lot of harm in having a 1 minute clip of a song floating around that has received an overwhelmingly positive response.  It seems like this is planned as a way of stirring up some buzz for the album

Over FM airwaves you can't tell that.

They never tried to stop the live bootlegs from the 2000-2002 shows did they?

This is something different...




/jarmo

Listen, if Management comes out and says that they intended this to happen, then I'll be glad to say I'm wrong and be the first to download the songs. ?I've been a musician for 20 yrs, and if my music that I have been working on for years gets released to radio without my consent, and it being a demo on top of that, I would be very upset.

I think this whole debate is pretty retarded.  Nobody has a right to really be mad/upset over the leaks except for Axl and his record company.  And honestly from the sound of it, they aren't THAT pissed.  The reaction to this leak is VERY different from the first IRS leak. 
Us as individual fans can have our opinion on if people should or should not be sending this around to each other or to radio stations but you're insane if you think EVERYONE is going to side with you one way or the other.  Its out there....like it or not.  Too many people have copies of IRS and Better and are going to do very diff things with them.

The other leaks, that only a VERY select few have access to are a very different story.

(http://img492.imageshack.us/img492/3568/dscf3670pp2in.jpg)

 :peace:

Over FM airwaves you can't tell that.

Only when you have a real bad radio.
If you just listened to a well produced track on the radio and that's followed by IRS...the difference is huge.

I agree...I am starting to think this was planned by managament...and who knows...maybe it was just for the radio and the forums got a hold of it or maybe vice versa..either way I think somewhere in here this was planned to generate buzz for GNR.

Either way.. Merck needs to get off his ass and say something to put an end to all this bs.

No, I'm talking about the studio demos of November Rain and such.

Axl made a comment in concert (1991) where he was talking about how he hoped everyone in the crowd found bootlegs (of new studio tracks) to tide them over while GNR was having legal difficulties releasing the Illusion albums.

I don't know much about anything but I think this "leak" might have been on purpose. My local radio station is advertising it.

(http://img379.imageshack.us/img379/4415/gnremail7hs.th.jpg) (http://img379.imageshack.us/my.php?image=gnremail7hs.jpg)

He did, to remove all links.

I'd say that's more fault of the mixing than the audio quality (MP3 - 192 kbs, 44 mhz).

FM Radio quality is less than 192 kbs, 44 mhz.

Ok, so let's assume he said that in 1991.

Did he tell you it's ok to spread these files in 2006?




/jarmo

HAHA. I am talking something offical for the fans that he seems to think dont matter.

No, but I think he'd be sympathetic to our plight.

But this is not your normal situation..this is a band that has been working on an album for a long, long time...and I think it's not so ludicris to think that these leaks that come out every now and again is an attempt to generate interest...I mean don't forget the record co.. had sunk alot of money into this they will take tactics they need to take to redeem some of that money.     And Axl may not know anything about it and as far as he is concerned they are on his side and you're right as a musician ofcourse you would get pissed and we all know that Axl most definitely is.   You never know what companies will do to make sure they get paid.

another interesting point which may indicate this leak was planned...

i was on the boards when wes appeared and said he had these tracks but didn't know how to upload.  yet, they are 192 kbs and the song 'better' is cut at a really vital point which leaves you wanting more.

I just don't see how you would have problems uploading a sing if you know how to rip it (many 'noobs' rip into 128 or 64 kbs) and  cut it down to a 1:20 clip (this requires a seperate application).

 ??? ??? ??? ???  something is fishy

Who knows. I always assume the artists will release the songs they want us to hear.... Or at least decide when we get to hear them.




/jarmo

Axl hired Merck & Co to be his manager, if you say fuck Merck & Co (as in your text) you pretty much say fuck Axl & CO.
Merck might have a different opinion but he works for Axl & Co.

So, this means it was planned. Bravo, you would make a great private investigator.

"Yes mam, he had a knife in his kitchen, so he must be the murderer, I mean, honestly, is there any other explanation?".

I'm pissed at the idiot who first suggested people send IRS to their local radio stations.  :rant:

Amen.  : ok:

yeah..what a prick!  :rofl:

Good point.  The timing of these leaks is interesting.  Axl has been spotted at big public events more times in the last month or so as he has been in the last 4 years, he reportedly played the album for some club owners a few days before the leak, he spoke to the press for the first time in years.  The timing of the leak combined with the other events doesn't seem to be a coincidence

loooooooooooooooooooool

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

chill dude, we have let axl take his time for too long... its time to rumble, either he steps up to da plate or goes back to the bushes.... TAKE IT TO DA PRESIDENT... GONNA CALL DA PRIVATE EYE... GONNA GET DA IRS... GONNA NEED DA FBI!  :peace:

Well, here's the stream - should be on in 5 minutes! -

http://www.thebuzzardjustrocks.com/cc-common/streaming_new/index.html

Too bad for Axl. Like someone has already said shit happens. Axl doesn't show up for concerts and that's written off as shit happening so if somthing leaks than too bad for him. If he doesn't owe us anything than we certainly don't owe him anything. ?If he freaks and delays the project even more because of bootlegged leaks than he's more paranoid than any of us thought. He just needs to fucking do it. Get the album out, stop worrying about leaks. It's an easy solution, combat the leaks and bootlegs with the real thing. The fans have waited long enough and for Axl and his management to continueally ask us to have patience is beyond ridiculous at this point. We're all gonna buy the album regardless so who gives a flying fuck if we or anyone else listens to the leaks. Axl has to realise that he's brought this on himself. He's starved the fans for Gn'R music, news, or anything relevant to the band. Of course fans are gonna go nuts when something leaks. For him to ask us to obstain from it, is pure selfishness on his part.

well then axl shouldn't be playing the album in public places if he's that worried... be glad someone gives a fuck..

Oh my God, another clue. It's OBVIOUS... It's all been planned since 2002...

I can't believe we have so many brains in one board.

It's like the Einstein Message Board...  :yes:

I'm happy with what we got.
I also think that if someone does have TWAT,as interesting as it sounds,and if leaked I will listen to it,I don't think it should be.
If things are really on the roll as it seems,let the album come out,without anymore leaks.

Ok,

let's get all the clues together...

1) The guy doesn't know how to upload. It's obvious, it's someone from the band.

2) The song is cut at 80 seconds. I mean DAH, it's someone from the band, who else would know how to do that...

3) How can they know how to cut a song and not how to upload it, it's definitely someone from the band...

4) Axl went out 5-6 times this month. Think about it...  :yes:

Need I say more? The band leaked the songs.

They're playing the brand new Guns N' Roses right now. IRS is being played on 96.7 The Buzzard. ?The album is gonna have to come soon. This might be a good thing. It might give Axl the kick in the ass that he needs to put out the real deal. It's amazing though to hear a live radio dj announce BRAND NEW GUN N' ROSES!!! Just give us the labum Axl!! the amterial is amazing and the public and the fans are gonna eat it up!!!!

Yep, I'm listening to the stream now.

 ::)

I'm not saying it's some master plan.  It's not that far of a stretch to believe that in order to generate some buzz, someone close to the band would leak a better version of a song that's been out for almost a year now, and a short clip of another song that we'd never heard mentioned up until about a month ago by Axl himself.  And during this past month, Axl's been making public appearances more often than he has in well over a decade, talked to the press which he hasn't done in years, and played the album for others outside of his camp to hear

By the way, the only way material from a major project like this gets leaked is by someone working on the project in some capacity, but the fact that only a small cut of the song was leaked makes it more likely that it was someone trying not to "spoil" the song but give a "teaser".  Some studio assistant who just jacks a copy of GnR's new material isn't going to bother cutting the song down before releasing it

WOW!!! he's advertising it as a song off the album.  He's giveing the impression that the album is right around the corner. What are the legal ramifications for a radio station doing this?

Thats's the problem with a demo on the radio. People will mistake this as being the real thing.
Congrats to anyone who's sending this to radio stations  ;)

At the end of the day it's Axls songs. ?Put yourself in his shoes. ?Your working on your defining album for years, some demos leak online, your "fans" decide to let the radio stations know, the radio stations hype the songs up for ratings, and at the end of the day, some old demos now represent the album you've been working on for over 10 years. ?I can understand why some would think this is benifecial. But after Managements statements, it's obvious Axl does not want this. ?I've waited just like everyone else, but these songs being on the radio is bullshit. ?At then end of the day, it's Axls work. ?We should not be "deciding" whats best for him.

Both streams I've listened to so far (Boston and Greenville) have acknowledged it's a demo.

Your use of sarcasm is quite masterful  :drool:

I agree some of the stuff being said is a huge stretch, but to suddenly hear new, high quality material from a project that's been this closely guarded while Axl Rose is showing up in public, playing the album at nightclubs and talking to the press, and Slash whose line has always been he doesn't know anything about the project is saying he's heard the album's coming out in March.

When songs get leaked, it's almost always a full version.  The only reason to cut the song off after 80 seconds is to "protect" the song so that people are eager to hear the rest of it, it's unlikely that some random person who stumbled across a CD of GnR tracks would go to the trouble to do that. 

The sig is there cause the band GnR isn't being handled right and the fans pay for it.. Thats how I see it.. you can take anyway you want.. doesn't really bother me.

Well, guess what, there actually is another explanation for this. Amazing eh?

Sometimes when you download an mp3, the file might stop at some point. then you only get to hear part of the mp3. Funny huh? Well, it happens...

no i think it's great !

You need to stop crying about it. If Axl respected the fans a bit more and was a bit more open with us things might be different. ?he doesn't even have to do much. hell a Monthly blog on the official website would be something. ?Why not share with the fans that have supported him, still support him, and will support him in the future. Fans would respect his wishes a lot more if he didn't always have statements released via his publicist / "management". You know.

So you're saying the person who uploaded the file onto the net in the first place didn't take the time to upload the full version?  They just tried once, saw there was an error and said screw it? 

I thought I was clear on this but I guess I wasn't.

I said there is another explanation for this. Did I say that I know what happened? No.

Listen, what I want you to do is click on my name, and see how long I've been here. ?Before that, I was at CD.com, and before that I was on the official GNR forum. ?Don't tell me to quit crying. ?I'm a grown man and ?I've been around the block buddy. ?I agree that Axl is shitty in regards to updates. ?Let me put this in bold letters: IT'S ABOUT THE ARTISTS RIGHTS, NOT THE FANS. ?You want Axl to be even more secretive, keep sending shit to radio stations. ?This is the exact reason he got rid of the GNR forum. ?

Yea bud but this doesn't happen in browsers, in my expereince only p2p transfers. 

Who talked about browsers? It could be some messenger...

When songs are leaked there is a bigger chance the cd will be rushed out.

Big fucking deal. Cry me a river. Is it not about the fans right to experience a concert when they purchase a ticket? Oh no it's about the artists right to screw fans over at will while expecting those same fasn to respect their wishes when it comes to material. Bulshit!? Preach to someone else pal. And if you're gonna brag about how long you've been here and there than that's hilarious. that's the biggest copout in the history of internet forums.? ?You're talking to a 16 year Guns N' Roses fan here so I know about waiting as much as the next guy. Oh unless you've been a fan since day one than my apologies, how dare I tell you to stop crying. hey buddy: STOP FUCKING CRYING ABOUT IT!!!!

I saw the original Guns in LA in 86.  I'm not gonna get into a pissing contest with you here because I'm too old for that shit but as a musician, if this release was not planned I feel sorry for Axl.  And you don't have to be a prick to get your point across.  I know it's bullshit about the amount of info we recieve, but we have a choice to be fans, just like Axl has a choice to put out music.  We should RESPECT THE ARTISTS DECISIONS.

^^^everyone step back, thorazineshuffle has been a fan longer than you and his opinion is more valid

I haven't heard a cease and desist yet from management. Radio stations are still playing this song.

My impression is that the buzz is so positive that they are going to let it roll. A good move.

now if they put out a single very soon, they will be able to play into the buzz.

Did I say that?  No.

Well I understand why you're skeptical, who isn't, but you have to admit there have been some interesting events in the past month or so

Slash, who has always maintained he doesn't know anything about Chinese Democracy or when it's coming out, says on more than one occasion that he's heard from an inside source that the album will be released soon.  Given Slash's prior comments regarding the album, you have to admit this is pretty interesting

Axl hasn't spoken to the press since 2002 and has rarely made public appearances.  He suddenly starts popping up at events that he knows photographers and other members of the press will be at, and he gives an interview to Rolling Stone.

He reportedly bribed a nightclub to let him and his crew party after hours by letting them listen to Chinese Democracy.  A few days later a much higher quality version of IRS and a short clip of a new song that he hadn't mentioned until the recent Rolling Stone interview pop up

I'm not saying all this necessarily means something specific, but you can't deny the timing of it all is at least interesting

Fine. that's your point of view. My point of view is shit happens. Axl doesn't show up to shows screwing over thousands of fans and that's just the way it is. He tells us to be patient so we are. Years go by and he tells us to be patient again and we are. More years go by and still he asks us to be patient and we are. Gee I wonder who's getting screwed here? ?The fact is he takes the fans for granted and nobody should feel bad about listening to or shareing these demos with anyone. Not even radio. Songs get leaked and people hear them, that's just the way it is. And to be honest Axl probably doesn't even give a shit about these leaks. Despite what manaagment has said. Why the hell would he be playing the album at night clubs if he did. ?Also if he cared so much why not make a personal statement. An e-mail or even an audio clip sent out to the major Guns N' Roses forums. Fans would respect that but no instead it's the same old bullshit coming from Merck and the management team.

I was thinking the same thing, man.  It's one thing for a radio station to play a song once and then not again out of fear for legal reprocussions.  It's yet another to continually play the song over and over again.  Especially when it's a big, popular and influential station like the one in Boston (WAAF?).

I hope that they are in fact letting the buzz build even more.  GN'R has gotten this much positive buzz in years. 

I hope to God that Axl doesn't get pissed and crawl back into obscurity.  The bell can't be unrung.  It has leaked, it is out there.  Axl can either get pissed and give everyone a big "fuck you" by changing his plans, or he can use this to his advantage, capitalize on the buzz and at least make an announcement soon.

While it is his music and unquestionably his decision, I, for one, hope he chooses the latter option.

Ali

Yeah it pisses me off!! I'll wait for the real thing!

I've never seen axl ask us to be patient. If you can contradict that tho i'd love to see it - and no, quoting patience doesnt count.

I've seen him say, many times, that we should live our lives and that it will come out when it is ready. And that is a huge difference.

I was driving to work today, turned on the radio (103.9) out of youngstown, Ohio. The dj said new gnr was coming on next (I almost wrecked the car). He then plays the irs clip and makes fun of it. Callers were calling in & Saying get that crap off the air? These are F--ck--g demos, not clean music. I have all the demos from the afd, and UyI disc. True fans love this shit, the raw axl. But the general public wants to here a clean, good sounding axl. I hope this does not back fire, and delay album even more. What do you guys think?

I cringed when I read that fans were sending the songs to radio stations. As a fan, I have absolutely no problem with the fans sharing the songs with other fans (in fact I encourage it and hope the other songs leak  :hihi:), but there was absolutely no reason to make these tracks so public when they were not meant for radio airplay.

I also think it is absolutely ridiculous to defend it by pointing out Axl's actions in the past. I am one fo the last people on this board who would ever defend Axl's actions but that in no way makes it cool to send his songs out to various radio stations around the US. It's also a juvenile argument to say "well he did something wrong first." Give me a break.

A similar topic.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=25544.0


Have fun getting bitched at. ?You can take over for me. : ok:

If anything, it should cause the GnR team should hurry up and press a finished copy of IRS to send to radio stations

AMEN Shotgun Blues!!!   : ok:

Exactly - just issue a press release saying what leaked was a demo and hurry up production on the single.

everyone's gonna be a critic

hell, even Lawrence of Arabia got bad reviews

(maybe that's a bit of an extreme)

Do you people not understand that it will come out when it is ready? They embarked on a world tour and it never came out, why would a re-leaked demo force his hand?

Touche. I suppose you're right. I guess he has never actually asked us out right to be patient. So I assume he wants us to be impatient? The fact is wheather he says it or not there's no doubt he's thinking it. Telling us to live our lives and when it happens it happens is telling us to be patient in not so many words. Oh and no need to worry about me ever quoteing Gn'R songs to help make a point. No offence to anyone but when people do that I think it's the lamest thing ever.

No, simply by not saying something it does not in any way mean you are implying the exact opposite. Life is not black and white. Good does not necessarily exist because evil does and vice versa.

And by asking us to live our lives he is not asking us to be patient in any way whatsoever - to be patient you have to be "patient on something". By living your life you become free of trivialities and, in real terms, Chinese Democracy is a triviality.

 ::)

no need to roll your eyes. you entered a debate and said something fallacious, inconstant and wrong. if you put yourself out there and make bold personal statements about things other people believe in then you have to accept that people are going to go out to attack what you have said. you were proven wrong.

there's no need to display your shortcomings in emoticon form.

O.k. bud here's the thing. There is only good with bad. Without the bad there is no good. Without darkness there is no light.  We know of light because we've experienced darkness and the same goes with good and bad. There is no patience without impatience.  Living your life and not worrying about it is being patient. Are we to belive that by living our lives we've put all thought of Chinese Democracy out of our minds. Gimmie a break.  My view on this is correct. Your's could be as well but this isn't a philosphy class so stop trying to act all deep in a conversation about fans being patient for the release of Chinese Democracy.

I was using philosophical tecniques to prove you wrong (which i did easily and succesfully). I then mentioned philosophical arguments as an analogy to prove my point, which they did.

look, i am philosophy student and i'm telling you right now that a non stated positive does not make a negative. Just because axl has never asked us to be patient doesn't mean he wants us to be impatient. He also never told me not to rob old ladies in the street - using your logic he wants me to mug old grannies. stop right now as you are horribly wrong.

And just for the record, simply because there is good does not mean that there is bad - surely there must be some sort of morally neutral act in between; riding a bike for example. Once again, stop. You are very much wrong.

 :rofl: yeah o.k. So we would know what good is without the bad? nd light without dark? I think not. No You can't experience one without knowing of the other. There are neutral things but Good and evil don't exist without each other. Light and dark cannot exist without the other.  Riding a bike would be a good thing because we know falling off a bike would be bad. As long we're riding the bike it's a good thing. It's not neutral. Plus riding a bike has nothing to do with it. Your anaology is terrible.  Next you'll be trying to tell me that it's impossible to prove anything because the world around us is in constant flux. I can prove a table is solid by knocking on it but I only proved it once and now at this moment none of us know if the table is still a solid object. That has nothing to do with what we're talking about but it's as ridiculous as you stateing nothing is black and white and then proceeding to tell me that your philosphy is how it is. Can you spell contradiction?   Take all the philosophy classes you want, the  fact is without darnkness light is irrelevant as is good without bad.  Also I guess if Axl doesn't want us to be impatient I have to assume he wants us to be patient.  You've made my point for me. Axl in not so many words has asked us to be patient. Try and comprehend that.

 A little meander through coffe table philosophy with a minor squirmish into the debate. I'm banging my head on a brick wall here. For something to be good it has to be less bad, right? You can look into it yourself (read a little Hume) good and evil are not reliant upon one another(neither are black and white. light and dark are). It's inconsequential as to wether you want to be enlightened in any way.

As for axl telling us to be patient, according to you anyway; the basis for your argument on that was "Also I guess if Axl doesn't want us to be impatient I have to assume he wants us to be patient"

An assumption made upon a guess? Brilliant. Which still, i must point out, relies upon a negative of a non-stated postive being true. According to you Axl wants us to do everything he has never said.

Your big talk actually makes you sound foolish. You're using it as front to mask an otherwise endless debate. you're taking your theories and useing them as a fact when in reality it's based on perception. If you need me to explain that one to you I will but you're the one taking philosophy so figure it out.  I haven't guessed anything. I spelled it out for you. Axl said live your lives and when it comes it comes. To me that is telling us to be patient. Read into it what you want but if that isn't telling us to be patient and it's not telling us to be impatient than what the hell is he saying? be neutral :rofl: yeah o.k.  Take all your higher education and throw it out the window because you've obviously forgotten the concept of common sense.

you haven't guessed anything? So i guess that sentenced i quote from you saying "Also I guess if Axl doesn't want us to be impatient I have to assume he wants us to be patient" must be an abhoration. I could swear that you both make a guess and an assumption.

Your last post doesnt actually say anything other than attempt to insult me but as you're proud of your ignorance i don't really care for your opinion. You refuse to tackle the original issue; that being a non-stated positive doesnt equal a negative. But why would you want to tackle that when you can just insult me?

I dont really think they belong on the airwaves just yet. Playing them to the public in any form other than axl intended is just not right. but at the same time its great to see all these kids getting into the new sound.     GnR4EVA!   :peace:

Great, I come to a GNR board and fucking Socrates is waxing philisophical about good and evil. 

We got what karma police was saying without you trying to poke holes and analyzing every word.

As for the leak, IMO, it was absolutely done on purpose.   I can't explain how this happened, but i think one of the most highly guarded recordings just popping up from no where, is suspicious.

How did M Piazza get the original leaks ?  Accidently ?

Somebody two years later gets his hands (same person who released shitty versions ?) on the Piazza recordings and now releases good quality versions ?  Why wait til now ?  Or did he stumble upon them while cleaning out M Piazza'a locker ?

Why only a 70 second leak of Better ?  Somebody bumped the off button ?

If you believe any of this bullshit of an accidental leak, you're as crazy as Steven Adler on a two week coke and heroin binge.  A true leak would have been met with Axl and lawyer, not a meek half hearted mysteron statement of "please don't share these or talk about them."

I submit that this was Eddie Trunk in the grassy knoll !!!

I expect an release announcement very "soon".