Here Today... Gone To Hell!

This is just ridiculous.



ACLU Sues on Behalf of Pa. Student
By Associated Press

PITTSBURGH - A high school senior who was transferred to an alternative school as punishment for parodying his principal on the Internet is suing the district, arguing it violated his freedom of speech.

Justin Layshock had used his grandmother's computer and the Web site MySpace.com to create a phony profile under the principal's name and photo.

The site asks questions, and Justin filled in answers peppered with vulgarities, fat jokes and, to the question "what did you do on your last birthday?" the response: "too drunk to remember," according to the lawsuit filed on Justin's behalf by the American Civil Liberties Union.

School officials weren't amused. They questioned the teenager about the site on Dec. 21, and he apologized to the principal, the ACLU said.

Then, on Jan. 6, the district suspended Justin for 10 days and transferred him to an alternative program typically reserved for students with behavior or attendance problems, according to the lawsuit. He also was banned from school events, including tutoring and graduation ceremonies.

"The school's punishment affects his education," said Witold Walczak, Pennsylvania Legal Director of the ACLU. "In this critical last semester, Justin's opportunities to gain admission to college may be irreparably damaged."

According to the lawsuit, Pennsylvania State University notified Justin that his application had been put on "a registration hold" and asked for more information about the suspension. "It is unknown how or why the university had received this information, since it is supposed to be confidential under federal-student-privacy laws," the lawsuit says.

Officials with the Hermitage School District declined to comment.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Pittsburgh, seeks Justin's immediate reinstatement to his regular school. A hearing for a temporary order is set for Monday.

"Not to excuse it, but school officials need to understand that they're not parents," Walczak said. "School officials can't reach into parents' homes and tell them how to raise their kids."

The ACLU has time for this sort of shit??...That's typical of these jerkoffs.

But there's still no word from them about the outrage that's going on in the Vermont justice sytem.

This is why the ACLU is a total fuck up and waste of an organization! To hell with them! :rant: :rant: :rant:

What is going on in the Vermont justice system?

Why should the ACLU be on that case?

ACLU defends everybody, not just who you want them to.

They defend everyone, if it furthers their political agenda.

A Vermont judge recently sentenced a child molestor to 60 days in jail. Just this past week the judge re-seneteced the molestor to a 3 to 10 year sentence which means, he'll more than likely only serve 3 years and be out. Where the hell is the ACLU on this one? It's insane!!! The ACLU is always high on themselves about protecting human rights. Well, what about the human rights of this little child?

It's sickening that their suing over this little shits website while there is a by far more important case in Vermont. Wake the fuck up ACLU!!!



Your are exactly right!

Forget about the ACLU for a second.  How about the fact that this kid was kicked out of school, possibly now rejected from college, all because some principal didn't like his sense of humor.  I thought satire was protected speech?

You and your "agendas"!

What agenda?????

This is the most crucial point raised by the article, and definatetly needs to be assessed pronto. School authorities have to start realizing they are responsible strictly for overseeing the education of their student body, not disciplining and suspending kids for mildly stepping out of line...it's just insane.

My little nephew got suspended for 2 days from public school last week, for "disrespect to authorities". When I heard that one, I almost burst into tears laughing, I mean the kid is only 8 and he got sent home for having a temper tantrum on his teacher.

Attendance is the main thing that pisses the school systems off, but thing is they cant do dick-fuck-all to make the damn kids go, its entirely up to them, although if skipping is out of hand, they dont have to keep that student on any longer. You see, giving a 20 minute detention for skipping a 75 minute class aint gunna rectify the problem at all, it's the teachers who have to make there lessons more INTERESTING to their class, and then you'll have no discipline issues.

In my grade 11 years of high school, I got suspended for a week for possession, and the principal was droning on about how it was "his mission to rid the school of marijuana" I merely looked at him and asked how the war on drugs had been going in the US, and he added another week to it for "my smart mouth" :rant:

Fuckin' school systems are turning into the next Nazi Party...scary but true...just glad Im done :peace:

The judge is acting within the law. Sadly child molestors are often given PROBATION for their first offense. Rarely do they do long stints in the clink.

To say they help both sides because they have an agenda is a joke. They help both sides because that is what they do. They help defend civil liberties of people who live in America. Don't you think it is a little paranoid to deny that they help people by claiming they "don't do it because they mean it, they do it because they 'have an agenda'.

Please.....take the tinfoil hats off!

THANKYOU!!!

College should only be for upper class/caste elites. The egalitarianism of the current system has degraded the value of the achievement. Any moron can make it through now. This kid will probably be happier as a layman; he doesn't have the intelligence or ideals to go to college. His alcohol joke was lame and old as the hills. And come on, fat jokes?! He could try to be more original.  ::)

Good satire encourages social change and is typically witty and interesting. What this kid did was slander. There was nothing cute or intellectual about it.

It's disgusting that he used his GRANDMOTHER'S computer to do this trash.  :rant: He's the kind of kid who gets into identity theft in a few years. This lesson to him should keep him out of federal prison, if anything else. The ACLU, of course, get their priorities confused. But that's just what liberals do.

Ultimately, obedience must be taught to our children. They must learn the slave mentality before they learn the master way of thinking. Even then, a very small number are even capable of being overmen anyway. There will be plenty of good students to take this one's place. Nothing to see here.

Child molesters should get the death penalty.

Why is this board filled with posts about weird lawsuits?  ???

It's a sad situation that the justice sytem continuously allows this to go on. It shouldn't be within the law for this to happen.

But still, no word from the ACLU yet!

People post what they want to post on this part of the board, and sometimes strange lawsuits are interesting to analyze/discuss.

I can sort of understand why he was kicked out of school. He was falsely impersonating someone and showing that person in a very negative light. It would've been different if the student was playing a prank on one of his friends or something. However, the principal is someone everyone knows in that community and it could really destroy his reputation.

if the stuff he said was true then he has a rite to say it

I might agree with you if there was a chance that anyone could think this was real.  From the description, it sounds like it was very extreme and you would have to be an idiot to think it was real.  No reasonable person would think a school principal would write that stuff and use his own name. 

I went to high school with Billie Joe Armstrong (Green Day).  Do you know how many times he has "registered" on Classmates.com?  Should Billie Joe hunt all those people down and sue them for impersonating him?  Of course not.  Its stupid, but its not hurting anyone. 

So if you're a rich asshole like Bush you get to go to Yale and Harvard and to hell with everyone else?

College should be for anyone who wants it...

A High School senior? I'm not sure how the US schoolsystem works, but I'm under the impression that the kid was there of his own free will? Right? The Junior High being the last step of the mandatory schooling out there? If he was there under his own free will, and had chosen to study more, why would he go after the principle, the highest person in the hierarchy of a school? Like journey said, it would've been different if it was a prank on his friends.

I agree that the punishment was very extreme. But I disagree with the origianl article with the whole parenting thing. And appearently with you AxlsMainMan. I _do_ think that the schoolsystem plays a very important role along with parents in raising kids. Kids spend from 4-8 hours in school every day excluding the weekends. It's about 1/3 of the time that kids are awake during a day. If the school paid no attention to how the kids behaved towards the staff of the school it would give them a signal that it was ok. Now I know that this sort of 'raising of the kids' should happen more early on in school. Not when the guy is at senior high. And I don't think that a kid should be punished by the school if the person he attacked was some random guy. That would be the parents' job. But this was the principle. He knew that what he was doing was just stupid. So I do think that it was right from the school to punish him, just don't agree that he should've been excluded from all the events from the school and the whole sending to a program for people with attention or behavior problems. It does seem too extreme. Although the article doesn't mention if this was an isolated event or if this type of behavior had been going on for a longer period of time.

And AxlsMainMan... You can't be mad at the school for giving you detention for breaking the school's rules... And I can understand his reaction after you pretty clearly provoked him after you were given the punishment. Don't really agree that that's what he should've done, but I understand him.

His actions occurred outside of school.  If he was in the principals face, or on school property, that would be different.  But outside of school if he wants to make fun of his teachers, he should be able to.  He didn't hurt anyone.  If the principal's reputation was damaged, it was more from his over-reaction than anything this kid said.

And what about this part:

"According to the lawsuit, Pennsylvania State University notified Justin that his application had been put on "a registration hold" and asked for more information about the suspension. "It is unknown how or why the university had received this information, since it is supposed to be confidential under federal-student-privacy laws," the lawsuit says."

So it sounds like the principal (or someone at the school) has such a vendetta against this kid that they contacted the University to keep him out.  That's far more damaging than a fake profile on myspace.

And you are absolutely sure that it was the principle who leaked the information, and that the thing couldn't have leaked from anywhere else. If it was the principle, then he has acted outside of his authority.. He had no business doing that.

But concerning the your dirst statement. Let me put it this way: If you had a job, and you made a website like that about your boss. What do you think would be the chances of you having that job the next week if he found out about it? And do you think that it would matter to him if you did in your own time, and if you didn't even use the company computer?

If I'm right that he is in that school out of his own will, than that is his job. There's no excuse for publicly humiliating his boss. Even if it was a junior high kid, that sort of behavior should not be tolerated. The punishment was too hard, I agree. But he was very wrong to do that.

No, I'm not sure who leaked the information, and I think I said the principal or someone else. 

You're right, if you did that to your boss, it would be stupid, but legal.  I don't think you could be fired for it, at least not directly.  It would depend on the nature of the statements, for example if they qualified as harrassment.

As far as if he is in school out of his own will, the answer is probably murky.  He could probably drop out, but if he's not 18, he's subject to his parents will, not his own.  They could demand he stay in school. 

What should have happened is that the principal should have called him in, explained why even if it was a joke, it could cause problems, told him to take it down, and that should have been the end of it.  Instead he went absolutley nuts, and is trying to destroy this kid.  I think the principal must have some power issues if he doesn't know how to handle something as silly as this. 

And once again, this kid didn't do anything illegal.  Satire is protected speech in this country.  But he's being treated like he did some horrible thing. 

I guess in a country where people are shooting each other in schools, this would not be concidered horrible...

Well... Actually.. I too, don't concider it to be horrible. But I do think it was wrong.. And the fact that the kid fucked up, was punished for it, and is now crying foul speaks volumes of his personality.

But I really don't give a fuck. Especially seeing as I'm a bit wasted at the moment..

I agree that it was a bit extreme to kick the student out of school. However, he was falsely impersonating someone, and to my knowledge, that's illegal for anyone. It's not about free speech. If it were, he could've made a blog or whatever and just made jokes about the principal and that would have been ok. But like I said, he was pretending to be the principal. If a parent saw that, they would probably get upset and not think it was so funny, even if the majority of the students knew it was fake. It's a defamation of character.

Sorry, but defamation is not protected.  It is not like there was some joke disclaimer on the website.  I have thought about this before, it would be easy to fake being someone else over the internet by using a fake email address.  I don't think that this is necessarily a good thing to let kids get away with.  To argue that anything that happens off of school grounds is beyond the school's control is absurd in my opinion.  Schools have deteriorated enough in this country.  To turn this kid into the victim is just wrong. 

I see that this is where you miss what the point is, his punishemnt is really not in question, the severity of it is. An essential banishment from the masses to the small selct few of learing defuctants is the problem IMO. Susppend him sure if you feel as an educator it is necessary, take away his privillage of services that are reall of extra curricular in nature, makes sence to me. however without fulla ccess to his personal file, the removal of the student from the normal class structure to one of those that are destined to the bowls of society is putting the child at a disadvantage.

Several question are need to be answered: Does this kid have a history of disruption in the class room enviroment? Is the kids marks on a down slide away from the average and to the realms that extra help may be required through remidial studies? Are th students of this remidal class recieve aducate teaching?
If it can be proven that this new set up will benifit the entire class then the punishment does fit the crime, however if by his removal that no benifits and it really does affect the student, then the educators need to take the role that they should have been taking for years before, and that is that the future of the student is what they are really there for. It is not the role of the teacher to raise the child, but for the most part they are witht he students for more hours a day then the parents, they take a great role in shaping the minds of the ones that they teach. In a way they are responsible for the life that the student can attain. These days it is becoming more rare to find a teacher that really does care about the students, and do not just look at them as cattle they must throw education at and if they get it they get it if not they dont who cares. If the day of the actual careing teacher does come back it will be a better day for all.



To walk, on the elitest point of education, if it is so possible for everyone to get through university education then why is it that the US is lagging behind many of the industralised countries in producing qualified university educated persons? Why does the US have to go outside of the ountry to attract people to come work for them? the answer is certainly not by reducing the amount of people that go to University, but increasing the quality of the education that all receive in teh grade school and secondary school levels is it not?

I think both things have to be concidered.. The amount of students that are let in schools should be controlled, as well as the level of education in general... The world can only have so many bosses.. The ground work needs to be done too. Everyone should be given the appropriate chance to advance though. Over here, where a year in a university costs about 150 euros (200 dollars max, prolly less actually). the money isn't an issue. We do, give the places to people who deserve them. And it is somewhat working. But we're still producing more highly educated people than our society has jobs for... So this has to be taken into account.

But to answer the original point... I didn't miss the point. I just think that it is stupid that he played with fire, and now crying because he got burnt... I said that I agreed that the punishment was prolly waaaaay too big when taken the 'crime' in concideration. But. I'd never do such a thing, so I wouldn't know how this certain individual thought that he would accomplish by doing this. I do think that he showed remorse by apologizing, and it should've stopped there. But I guess I just don't feel too much sympathy for the kid because I feel that he should've know that what he did in the first place was wrong and stupid... I guess that I haven't really given the whole situation that much of thought, since I don't live there, there for know the practices you have about this sort of behavior, or really thought the whole thing through, since my opinion will have nothing to do with the outcome of this event.

I think mandatory math and science classes would fix our colleges up. Calculus, organic chemistry, physics, etc. Lots of people go through college on sociology, Asian pottery, French art, and journalism classes. A few real classes would weed out a lot of the poseurs.

Don't forget Film. I'm going through the education system studying Film.

What a free ticket.  :)

I'm sure you know more about the law than I do, but I don't recall SNL ever running a disclaimer that the actors portraying Bush or Clinton are just actors.? Maybe they do at the end, I can't be sure.? But I know "Evil Dave Letterman" appears on Howard Stern frequently and there is no disclaimer.? Along with someone who sounds just like Arnold Swartzenegger.? I think the question comes down to if a reasonable person would believe that the "fake" is the real person.? And what this kid wrote sounds far too extreme for a reasonable person to have thought it was actually the principal.? I'm glad they are suing on his behalf, because I think we are too quick to give up our freedom of speech in this country, frequently in the name of political correctness.? If its not a free speech issue, then I guess the court will throw it out.?

I agree with the post above about not knowing this kids history in school.? If he was a consistent behavior problem, or someone who needed remedial studies, that would be a different story.? But it sounds from the article as though he was already accepted to Penn State,? so he must not have been doing too badly.? And if he's an otherwise decent kid who did one stupid thing, then they are being ridiculous in their punishment.


Did you go to college?? Because I'm pretty sure when I went Math and Science classes were mandatory.? Doubt I would have taken them if they weren't.

Damn straight.  ;D I'm taking film now, too. After a rough semester of Biology (still worth it, though), I need something easy! I'm definitely in favor of keeping the fun classes, but some hard stuff should be required.

People tend to take geology, environmental science, statistics, pure math, etc. They avoid calculus, physics, biology, and other classes. That's how it is at my college.

Maybe people actually like geology, environmental science, statistics and pure math. Did you ever think that? I myself know alot of people who just can't stant calculus, physics, biology etc because it's just boring.

First, there are different standards for famous or political people.  Second, it is understood that those shows are parody shows and that they are poking fun at the people.  Certainly, noone would believe that Will Ferrell is actually George W. Bush. 

Then certainly no one would believe a high school principal would make a myspace page and put stuff like"what did you do on your last birthday?" "too drunk to remember" on it. At least not anyone with an IQ above 15.....

well at my university, it is a requirement that all feilds have a grasp on math a couple sciences, as well as english(no comments please :p)

the math is credits of a intro calculus and calculus course, physics or bio or chem 2 courses each. english same thing 2 courses, plus a second language for arts degrees.

right now im not attending the University, done 3 years of that and got fed up with not knowing whata prof was saying casue they couldnt speak english! Now im going to a pure technology college, where we are required 4 maths 4 phys and chem and Electro (physics derative) plus technical english and a few specifc courses to give us a basic understanding of Auto cad if not required for your course. if it is then you have somethign like 9 different courses...... and alot od specic for your program. Petroleum is what im doing and it has a huge Chem and physics back Bone plus geology and geo physics......... insanely hard courses.....

but from the university as i said you are required regardless of your major to cover teh basics... and that is true through Canada i beleive

Unless its differs greatly by state, there is no choice if you want a degree.  There are certain classes you have to take in order to complete your lower division general ed., then you have some upper division courses as well.  I know I didn't take physics or biology  for fun, it had to be required. 

Those are some hardcore classes, Prometheus. Good luck.

Ever stop and think that not every productive member of society needs to know, or even have a rudimentary understanding of calculus, organic chemistry, or physics? And no one "gets though college" on lightweight-fluff courses alone. Everyone needs to pass English, College Algebra, etc.? I may not be a genius, but I worked very hard and graduated a State College to get a BA in psychology, something I am very proud of. I find your attitude to be extremely arrogant and offensive. Who the fuck are you to judge who should or should not get a higher education, or who is a "poseur" because they aren't good in organic chemistry....Do you think Bush would have passed anything like that without a tutor?

Don't bring Bush in the conversation in every topic.. From here it looks like you're only trying to start a fight.

I think that it would be healthy for everyone to learn the basics in both phsyics and chemistry just so that people understand the basic stuff on how everything is working... About chemical reactions and the laws of physics.

Of course, it has to be up to the student how far he/she wants to take it, but the basics in both, plus math of course should be mandatory.

I brought in Bush because of Walk's belief that higher education should be reserved for the elites. As though being an elite (wealthy) means that you are intelligent. My response to his post was aggressive, but you can't post something so atrocious and obnoxious that is such a slap in the face to people that worked very hard to get through college and not expect that. This isn't a debate about the invasion of Iraq, this is about somebody telling me that I don't deserve my BA, and it pisses me off. I don?t want to piss the Mods off or pick a fight or start trouble, but I need to take a stand and speak my mind when I am severely condescended to.

Would it in all honesty made a bit of difference if the prank was on one his goofball friends and not the Principal? I mean his friends parents could have taken offense to the site and reported the student to the school, but the school ultimately wouldn't be able to discipline the kid because why? Because he would have established a satirical website to his friends off of school hours, and not using school machinery. Why is it different for the Principal? Because he runs the school? In all honesty, he should have just demanded an apology and been done with the whole fiasco..
I can entirely see if he used the school computer to do this website but he didn't so why should his academic future be put on the line? If the kid was smart, he would have kept the site a secret and left other students to their own devices to locate it, but Im guessing he told one to many kids and got nailed that way...or the Principal traced the IP from where the site was made.

Your damn right he shouldn't have been excluded from school events for something so stupid..reminds of last year when that gay couple got rejected from their highschool Prom for holding hands at the event. Ive been sent to those "alternate education sites" in my high school days, and trust me, there strictly for future cons/ drug dealers/ and absolute idiots, not a smart kid who lost his chance to Penn State over a MySpace joke...If the kid had no discipline problems before, that makes the validity of the Principal's defense even weaker...just pissed a kid got one over on him...

Teachers and Principals are unfortunately now like the Police in a lot of ways, their idiots on a powertrip with a gun who think they can seriously "make a difference" without even being able to relate to a single kid in the classroom. Teaching is like a performance, you have to capture your audience's attention fully and completly so you guys can stop the bullshit "kids just dont try in school" anymore approach because its utter shit. If teacher's made a lesson interestimg, they'd have to pay the fucking kids to skip class.

 :hihi: And your right, I did provoke the fucker, I just didn't understand how he could be looking at one of the school's best English students like he was a piece of drug dealing crap and say to me "I will eliminate pot"...I simply had to put the fucker in his place...

Maybe if more Principals smoked a joint, they wouldn't get their panties in a fuckin' bundle over a bunch of "yo moma" jokes  ::)

Yes it would have.

The principle is the highest authority at his workplace - the school. His schoolmates are his peers.



If this is true in the US, then it's a sad state of things. Out here, I know a lot of teachers and policemen to whom you could never apply that.

The Principal may have the highest power but he is specifically in charge of overseeing the education of a few 100 students, not getting offfended at the prank of 1 mere kid and destroying his future edcuation opportunities instead of sweeping the whole event under the rug like it belongs.

Im actually speaking on Canada's part, I wouldnt last a day in the Us...

Look at Toronto, how many gun deaths have we had this year so far alone? And what's the government's solution? More and more police that are gunna cost the province millions and millions of more tax dollars to pay. Now I dont know every cop in Canada but I can tell u the large majority are fuckin' useless.

Always there when you dont want them, never there when you do want them.

I've said many times that the punishment was too hard. That wasn't the question. You asked me whether it would've made a difference if it was one of his mates.

Okay.. The same thing applies to Canada. If teachers and the police are nothing but "idiots on a powertrip", it is sad, but I really doubt that that's the case. But I'm not going to get into that whole cop thing since I have nothing against them, and this thread isn't about them.

The pragmatism argument is poison for American culture. College is more than learning future job skills. It's about learning American ideals and preserving our national identity. We have a strong history of invention and science. Those who won't learn the basics aren't pulling in the full American experience. They might be useful labor, but they won't be prepared to be strong citizens.

The elite (not always the rich) are those who uphold our ideals. They're the ones who should undertake an education to preserve the American and Western way of thinking. Even tech schools teach WHY something works, not just HOW. People who simply want jobs should go to a trade school. They would be happier there.

Walk - I have a question which I don't mean to sound insulting.  I'm just someone with a genuine curiousity about people and how they think.

Do you have any/many friends?  And if so, do you express your rather extreme views to them?

NO

and

NO.

To tell you the truth Walk reminds me alot of my friend Adriel. They're both somewhat "extreame" to the average person... but im sure Walk, like my friend is an intresting, smart guy. How many friends does he have? Maybe not alot (maybe alot, who knows) but im sure they're thoughtful and open-minded enough to talk to the guy. Even if you don't agree 100% with what certain people say, you can still take something from their point of view and help it shape your view of the "greater picture". Of corse, in order to do this it's important not to become immediatly offended by someone's point of view.

I for one enjoy reading Walk's posts. Speaks his mind. Just my 2?

That's a crook of shit.