Here Today... Gone To Hell!

RAMALLAH, West Bank - Hamas won a huge majority in parliamentary elections as Palestinian voters rejected the longtime rule of the Fatah Party, throwing the future of Mideast peacemaking into question, officials from both major parties said Thursday.

Palestinian leaders huddled to determine what role the Islamic militant group will play in governing the territories.

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas will ask Hamas to form the next government, with his defeated Fatah Party weighing whether to form a partnership or serve in the opposition.

A Hamas government, without Fatah as a moderating force, would greatly complicate Abbas? efforts to restart peace talks. The Islamic militants, who carried out dozens of suicide bombings and seek Israel?s destruction, have said they oppose peace talks and will not disarm. Israel and the United States refuse to deal with Hamas and the two, along with the European Union, have classified Hamas as a terrorist organization.

The top Hamas leader, Khaled Mashaal told Abbas his group is ready for a political partnership, Hamas said.

Fatah legislator Saeb Erekat said the party does not want to join a Hamas government. ?We will be a loyal opposition and rebuild the party,? Erekat said, after meeting with Abbas.

But Nabil Shaath, another senior Fatah lawmaker, said the party?s leadership would make a decision later in the day.

Rice calls Abbas
Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice called Abbas to praise Palestinian democracy and say the United States supports him and his policies, his office said.

?She asserted to him that U.S. administration will continue supporting the elected president and his policies,? said Nabil Abu Rdeneh, an Abbas aide.

Shortly afterward, the White House said President Bush will hold a news conference at 10:15 ET when he is likely to be quizzed about the political upset.

Abbas was elected separately a year ago and remains president. However, the Palestinian leader has said he would resign if he could no longer pursue his peace agenda. The Cabinet and legislature must approve any major initiative by Abbas, giving Hamas tremendous influence over peace moves.

Aides said he planned a major speech Thursday night, after final results are announced by the Central Election Commission.

Acknowledging the Hamas victory, Palestinian Prime Minister Ahmed Qureia and his Cabinet ministers resigned Thursday ? hours before official results were released.

?This is the choice of the people. It should be respected,? Qureia said. ?If it?s true, then the president should ask Hamas to form a new government.? The Cabinet remained in office in a caretaker capacity.

Israelis discuss next steps
International observers, led by former President Carter, said the elections were ?well administered.?

Hamas supporters streamed into the streets to celebrate victory. In Rafah in the southern Gaza Strip, Hamas loyalists shot in the air and handed out candy. Others honked horns and waved Hamas flags from car windows.

Israeli officials declined comment, but senior security officials gathered Thursday to discuss the results. Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert scheduled talks with senior officials later in the day.

Olmert said Wednesday, before Hamas claimed victory, that Israel cannot trust a Palestinian leadership in which the Islamic group has a role.

?Israel can?t accept a situation in which Hamas, in its present form as a terror group calling for the destruction of Israel, will be part of the Palestinian Authority without disarming,? Olmert said in a statement issued by his office.

President Bush told The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday that the United States will not deal with Hamas until it renounces its position calling for the destruction of Israel.

World concern over Hamas policies
 
Reactions to the Hamas victory streamed in from around the world. Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, according to news reports, called it a ?very, very, very bad result.? Benita Ferrero-Waldner, the EU external relations commissioner, said Hamas must be ?ready to work for peace? with Israel if it joins the Palestinian government.

U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan congratulated the Palestinian people on the peaceful legislative elections, which he said was an important step toward a Palestinian state.

Hamas capitalized on widespread discontent with years of Fatah corruption and ineffectiveness. Much of its campaign focused on internal Palestinian issues, while playing down the conflict with Israel.

Before the election, Hamas had suggested it would be content as a junior partner in the next government, thus avoiding a decision on its relationship with Israel.

Throughout the campaign, leaders sent mixed signals, hinting they could be open to some sort of accommodation with Israel. Its apparent victory will now force it to take a clearer position on key issues, including whether to abandon its violent ideology.

Mushir al-Masri, a Hamas candidate who won election in the northern Gaza Strip, said peace talks and recognition of Israel are ?not on our agenda? but the group is ready for a partnership ? presumably with Abbas.

What a terrible day. One really does wonder about the middle east. Suicide bombers now run a country...

Politics?

Locked!


 ;)

Ur right, i totally forgot. Sorry....

Its not about American politics :-\

The security barreer should be built faster to separate Israel from those islamist barbarians.

welcome the peace maker. ;)



anyway.
thats sure is sad. this is not how things are gonna get better there.
people would be blind too, thinkin that it's only because of palestinian.
if you smuther, lock, jail, people (a wall !!!) , the more they get stupid, and irresponsible they get.

i guess the UN needs to take control of whats going on.
we can't let this parot of the world try to fix things by themselves

on one side you have religious fanatics who thinks they own a land cause it's written in a book .....
on the other side you have religious fanatics who are desperate.

UN needs to take control and do 50/50.
isnt how you fix things with kids when they argue over cake ? 50/50.

I think you don't understand what's going on. I think you don't understand what the Hamas is. It's faschism right now in Palestine. It was a dictatorship when Arafat was here, but now it's even worthier. And you can't make peace with a terrorist organization who claims the destruction of Israel.
The truth is that the Arabic world is sick. The arabic world is turning into faschism. Everywhere. Look at what's going on in Iran. Now in Palestine. The Ayatollahs are taking power.

Hamas is even worthier than Arafat. It will not be easy.

yeah we know.  thats why i said it's sad.
but then again.
palestine, israel ... bunch of kids outt control.  the international community needs to get the hand on that part of the world.
50/50. thats what you do with kids.
they're fighting for land, cut it in half. isn't what fair+justice is supposed to be : half.

that was the idea at first (resolution 242). you can't go by " hey ! my god said it's my land !!! my land you hear !!! MIIIINNNEEE " .....

That 50/50 idea doesn't work - neither side understands compromise. Both want as much as they can get, the solution has to come from them, it can't be enforced.

Also, people need to be careful with what they say about the Arab world - many Palestinians are as saddened by this as we are, and its not the religion at fault but a vicious organisation who have preyed on poor and often desperate peoples irrational fears. Hate the group, not the religion its connected with, not all Muslims support Hamas.

It's not just a question of land (Israel retired from Gaza). It's just very difficult to discuss and make peace with people who are totally fanatized by Islamism. Iran finance the palestinian terrorism and Syria gives the Logistic, Hamas is financed by Iran and Supported by Syria, it's not just a Palestinian terrorist organization. It involves a lot of thing, wich make the whole thing even more difficult.

Israel did and does lots of concessions to make peace. The palestinians answer is "HAMAS". It's hatred. It's not 50/50, Israel is civilized, Palestine is not. Believe me, it's really difficult to "discuss" with people full of hatred. it's like the US with al quaida or France with GIA years ago. They are terrorist organizations, not politicians.

That's what Hamas is:

(http://fr.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9htfGQ5WNlD76UAdq1uAQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=1534t8v18/EXP=1138403769/**http%3a//www.betwix.com/ripac/images/gallery/Cultured/content/images/Thousands%2520rally%2520for%2520Hamas%2520suicide%2520bombers%25202-8-02.jpg)

(http://fr.wrs.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9iby4leWNlDmV4Ad95uAQx.;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=12s2voc6b/EXP=1138403806/**http%3a//www.openfire.us/blog/archives/images/2004/hamas_bomber_jrl801.jpg)

true the israelis don't want to give up the land, but they have tried offering already, a number of times (most recently gaza). even if they can manage peace with some of the Palestinians, there will always be the extremists (Hamas, who has now been elected) who will never be happy. anyways, Hamas gaining power is a bad thing , they refuse to disarm, and they also refuse to give up their position of complete destruction of Israel. Also interesting to note: Mushir al-Masri, a Hamas candidate who won election in the northern Gaza Strip, said peace talks and recognition of Israel are ?not on our agenda? ?:nervous: even better! peace isn't "on [their] agenda"...yeah...these people can be dealt with? ::) a bad day indeed...

They will. The Israelis agree for a trustable palestinian state, they just don't agree for a terrorist one. For the moment, I'm sorry to say the palestinians have chosen the second option for a long time. And it continues.

terrorism emerges where there is oppression ? right or right ?

israel ' the civilized ' -bombing kids is civilized now ? - needs to work on two levels : security and fight against terrorism > alright
but also
show that there is a need for a fait justice. meaning a fair share of the land. until you'll always have crazy fools (hamas) that will use the desperation of ones to justify there actions.

but i read how you talk nes. , i'm saddened, cause you 're very aggressive.
and again, you 're too much INTO the problem that it blurs your views.
and no, the solution CANNOT come from them, it's too late. they're kids. the UN must act.

I'm not aggressive, it's just the reality. I call a terrorist a terrorist and an islamist an islamist.

Wrong. Terrorism emerges where there is faschism. The 9/11 showed the Kamikazes were high educated people (Engineers etc...). They were not "oppressed" people. They were rich, educated and healthy.

Israel don't bomb the kids voluntary. Israel bomb the terrorist leaders. They avoid the civilians. It's a rule in Tsahal.

Give the palestineans Gaza and the West Bank. Let them figure out their own affairs. Build a big wall, shoot any one who crosses.

just to clear up any confusion, i meant although they may not want to, they are willing to give up the land in exchange for peace. i agree with you nesquick. doesn't say much about the palestinian people's belief in peace if the majority of them elected a terrorist group to represent them.

israel has tried giving up land for peace it has not worked WAT-EVER, i'm totally buggin, you're sayin hamas won't go away until israel gives up more land. ok. isreal gives up more land, sending the message that they will respond to terrorism, opening themselves up to more attacks. they will not do that (nor would any sensible nation). israel isn't just going to cut the land in half tomorrow. they start small, like with gaza, but terrorist groups constantly ruin any progress made by such concessions with their suicide bombings

I agree.
Besides, you give the Palestinian the democracy, you make effort for them to vote and express themself, you give them the chance to make peace, and in return they choose one of the most radical terrorist organization of the middle-east. nice!

This does kind of turn W's premise, that free people engaged in free elections won't choose terrorism, on it's head. Does it not?

On the other hand we wanted democracy in the middle east and we got it. A bitter pill to swallow since we do not like the results. We can not complain about it now when it does not suit the western wants. Should we ban elections because it may bring about religious nut jobs?

A majority vote for Hamas was a vote against the Fatah. Hamas is a murdering bunch of bastards and are the main sponsor of suicide bombers. However they are not as politically corrupt as Fatah and also have spent millions on healthcare and education for the Palestinians. This combination has brought them legitimacy among their own and where they are now.

If they can create a government that moderates the nutjob sect, then they may very well be the best thing that has happened to that region since 1948. I doubt it though.




Israel has repeatedly elected admitted terrorists as their prime minister (Shamir, Begin etc etc) and the U.S. has had no problem sponsoring them either.

That's because the U.S. sucks Israel's balls.

I think this is the first time a terrorist regime has taken power peacefully. I have a feeling there wont be another election when the time comes. Hamas will re write the law to give them absolute power over all aspects of Palestinean life as the Taliban did in Afghanistan. I think this election is the height of democracy for them, it all goes downhill from here.

An intresting choice to make at the ballot - corrupt governement or evil government. Hmm, might just have stayed away for that one :-\

The millions they have spent has not exactly been aquired through hard work and wise investments, thats laundered drug money and worse being used

It is the first time indeed. It also shows how much the "average" Palestinian of the street is fanatized. They chose to vote for them, you know, it clearly means "we want war, we support terrorism, we want to destruct Israel". That's the voice of the Palestinian citizens. I think there is no future with the Arabic World, We had better work with China, India, more generally Asia, and help Africa and South America, that's where the future is. We have nothing to get from Ayatollahs. They live in the middle-age and it seems they are not ready to evolve politically and economically. They are in a strategy of war and confruntation with the rest of the world, not in a position of cooperation, negociation and peace. They are in a strategy of radicalisation.
Anyway, let's see what happens, but Iran + Syria + Hamas don't smell good at all for the Middle east.

I don't believe this is true.

from what Ive heard Hamas is involved with a lot of charitable work for Palestinians and the Fatah party was pretty corrupt.  Voting for Hamas was more a vote against Fatah. Whatever the reasoning, they have elected a terrorist organization to run things and its going to hurt them in the long run.

yeah hamas won because they went straighth to the streets and used the *emotion* of the palestinian and their revolt.
what people tend to forget is that the Fatah comes from the OLP (arafat movement at first) and this was a agressive / military / terrorist organization too.

war is terrorism too. israel are terrorist. killing people with expensive weapons dont make you the good guy.

there is also 2 paradoxes here:
- george bush is now facing a wierd situation, where what he is fighting (terrorism) emerged from what he advocates (democratic vote) ... interesting ....
- the Hamas can't really go 100% their way. because they will need all the money the EU is sending there .... but the EU has ranked the Hamas as a terrorist organization in 2002 ... so funding a hamas government would be agains the EU laws.
and following the peace process, if the EU stops funding palestine ... Israel is obligated to do so !!!

moreover, for nesquick and everybody : think with your head not your heart.
nesquick is drown deep inside this issue because of his origins and faith, therefore he thinks with his emotions and heart instaed of being objective.

I, for exemple, am anti religion and neither palestinian nor isrealian, i would easily burn both islamists and israel extremists. ;)

Is the OLP the PLO for dyslexics?  :hihi:

War is not terrorism.

I have no great love for Israel, but there is a difference between bombing Hamas leaders headquarters and blowing yourself up on a bus taking with you 50-60 working class civilians.

tell that to leia and luke skywalker. terrorism is the weapon of the weaks.

yeah PLO what ever, i only knew the french tag, didnt have time to guess the english one ;)

what i think, is that , this issue is tangled in emotions and irrational arguments (coran, tora, god promises ...) that a external entity should judge all that : UN. in a serious way. no "peace process" > orders.

I agree, rational thought gets twisted & distorted when you kill your enemy in the name of religion.

Luke did not exactly kill women and children.

ooo am sure the rebellion did some awful stuff ... like blowing the death star with all the *civilians* working in the administration of the empire and all .... :)

Luke never went to the bathroom either  : ok:

all i can say is oh dear.this will not do anyone any good.dangerous times we are living in.
there will be another attempt to destroy israel from the surrounding countries and alot of people will die and they wont get what they want.probably be a nother 6 day war.

very sad that people just cant along regardless of some small fundamental differrences,rediculous.

Religious fundamentalists are always the ones killing in the name of God. Thats what Hamas is. How can you negotiate with that?

The Catholic Church in the middle ages did the same thing.

This kind of turns the premise that the Palestinians want peace on its head also.? Eh?


While it is certainly an unhappy result, it is useful in many respects. First, and most importantly, it forces the US (and perhaps some in Israel but not, I think, the Sharonites) to face up to the fact that their plans were founded on an illusion. The Palestinians are to a great extent supporters of terrorism and the destruction of Israel. There is no denying that now, although it will be denied.

Second, Fatah and the PA were corrupt and could not, in the current state, be the legitimate rulers of the Palestinians without the use of force. Individual rights, property rights, and the rule of law are sorely needed, but Fatah is just another kleptocracy. The US largely closed its eyes to that.

Third, there is an important division between Fatah and Hamas that US policy ignored. It is quite possible that the Palestinians will have a civil war, and perhaps they need one. They have to decide what they stand for.

Fourth, Hamas may have to face up to its own illusions. It cannot win a war with Israel, and Gaza is behind a fence. (Hopefully, the full Palestinian West Bank will be behind another fence soon.) If it does not moderate its position, it will be in a difficult position. It will be held responsible in the long run by Palestinians. The responsibilities of power may actually allow it to moderate enough so that the civil war between Fatah and Hamas will be avoided.

The great danger for the US and Europe would be to suddenly change their position and bargain with terrorists. But I am thinking that the US government at least understands this, even if it is willing to ignore many other inconvenient facts.

Unfortunately, one of the things that would both weaken the US and have devestating consequences for the world is actually constitutional, albeit unlikely: Making Jimmy Carter President of the US again. Carter's most recent gem:


"Carter, who led an 85-member international observer team from around the world organized by the 'National Democratic Institute' in partnership with 'The Carter Center,' urged the international community to directly or indirectly fund the new Palestinian Government even though it will be led by an internationally-declared foreign terror organization. "

"The Palestinian Government is destitute, and in desperate financial straits. I hope that support for the new government will be forthcoming," Carter said at a Jerusalem press conference."

He added that if international law barred donor countries from directly funding a Hamas-led government than the US and the EU should bypass the Palestinian Authority and provide the "much-needed" money to the Palestinians via non-governmental channels such as UN agencies."

"Regardless of the government, I would hope that potential donors find alternative means to be generous to the Palestinian people [even] if the donor decides to bypass the Palestinian government completely," Carter said, stressing that his main concern was to avert the "suffering" of the Palestinian people, which he said could lead to a new cycle of violence."
Remarkably, Carter embraces the democracy among the Palestinians but does not seem to recognize that the Palestinians are responsible for having freely chosen radical terrorists to run their country. Yeah, we should help them and "avert their suffering."


It would be interesting to imagine what the world would look like under this boob, but you don't really have to do so: It is in the history books: 1977-1980.
What is unbelieveable is that anyone listens to this guy.

The post that followed explained why they probably voted the way they did.

No need to start the spin machine.......

Guess somebody did............

Jimmy Carter:

The Nobel Peace Prize 2002

"for his decades of untiring effort to find peaceful solutions to international conflicts, to advance democracy and human rights, and to promote economic and social development"
 

Arafat won the Nobel Peace Prize. It is meaningless now at best.

This just shows that democracy is not always the answer; usually it isn't. Most cultures are incapable of it. It requires an intelligent, educated populace with respect and obedience for authority. Hamas are the guys with the biggest guns. That's why they won. Palestinians have no respect for ideals, only power.

It's time we disinfected Israel. Jordan has plenty of room, and is culturally more suitable for the Palestinians. They would be happy living there instead of a 1st world country.

 :hihi: :rofl:

The day u get banned will be a sad one, I would miss posts such as these

Why not just kill them all? ::)