Here Today... Gone To Hell!

I wonder what exactly happened at the VMAs in 2002.

Who the hell came up with that arrangement? The transition from jungle to maddy is pretty good (although the last 4 lines of jungle sound weird) but what the hell happens at the end of maddy into PC. what a disaster, sounded like garbage.

so im wondering, whose idea do u think it was to set the songs up like that? they should have done sweet child into chinese democracy or maddy into sweet child. its easy to say in hindsight, but you'd think they would have rehearsed that much more.

Leads me to believe, there is alot of laziness going on in the GnR camp. "I'll start recording my vocals over the summer", or "Lets release the CD next year"....im sure these are thoughts of Axl's. When u move slowly and never really make a real move, people stop expecting things, thus, less pressure.

Axl said in an interview they came up with the arrangement the day before the performance.

I thought it was corny - definitely should have just did "Madagascar".

Although the group onstage was excellent playing wise when I heard the opening riff to jungle then saw the people onstage it felt so fucking weird.. I mean if you grew up with afd then see gnr make a "comeback" you almost have the vision in your head of what it should be.. Like that should be slash doing that opening riff... I enjoyed the show it just wasn't gnr to me even if others felt it was..

I was pumped when I heard the opening riffs of jungle, then when I heard Axl start to sing my heart sank. I felt really bad for him. He should drop that damn ear piece, he screws with it too much and it takes away from his singing. I think the nerves got  the  better of him.  You could see hiim struggling the whole song.

yeah... i agree....he kinda looked like a recluse who got thrust into the spotlight.....man, i dont know what this dude's problem is....he's missing out on the time of his life when he should be performing....he's wasting this all away....this guy can take over the world again, he's just gotta do it....

That's because the audio wasn't loud enough for him to hear himself - he needed to keep cupping it to his ear in order to keep his pitch and know his place in the song.

That obviously didn't work out too well.

as people have said or should I say axl that performing isn't his favorite part, that he even kind of dreads it... The creative process is what he loves.. maybe that's why he is taking about 7 years or so :hihi:  The time was right back then ,.the iron was hot etc... WHy waste a damn closing of the vmas(which will be seen 30 million times that year) in which you included a new song which could have easily been a single, it was cool tune that was radio friendly and imo in his vocal range where he sounds clear live..

Yeah it was the audio in his ear.. but seriously.. Axl waited so long for his big return and we know how perfect he wants everything to be... the pressure must have been huge that night... I really felt for him :'(

Yeah, there were numerous sound problems during that performance, you can see both Axl and Buckethead are having issues throughout the whole thing! Funnily enough when the VMAs were broadcast in UK on terrestrial television they actually cut out the performance of Welcome to the Jungle, obviously someone over there didnt think too much of it! haha!

Jonx

axl actually agreed to play what mtv suggested??

Yeah, major mistakes were made at the VMA's. Doing a medley of Jungle,Madagascar, and Paradise City was a dumb move, but I can understand why he did it. He wanted a great crowd response, and Jungle could even wake up a deaf crowd, and PC was always their closing song. Instead of playing it safe, he should have played a new song in its entirety. MTV probably would have started showing it as a video(like they did KOHD in the heyday). And you guys have already mentioned the vocal problems, so I wont add anything there. :hihi: What's suprising about that night is how with all the various mistakes, Axl was still able to create a HUGE buzz about GNR, even though it was for a brief moment in time. Had CD been ready for release at that moment, it would probably be the biggest selling album of the past few years.

They could have just played the intro to WTTJ then gone into Chinese Democracy.

i think the choice of songs was perfect.WTTJ intro to get everybody goin,then into madagascar something new and proberbly the best sounding of the new ones,then finish it with a classic PC which is always there last song.the thing is poeple say that it was a bad choice of songs but if the technical problems hadnt occured and axl could hear himself sing which is what it looked like the problem was,then we would of all loved it.
  another thing,has anybody gotten hold of the VMA rehersals video from the day before?there is a thread about it here.i wonder how axl sounded on that.it definetly exhists as there are pics of it.i think axl was wearin a cleveland browns top but i could be wrong about that.there are pics in the thread.

Am I the only one who thinks that if they played the same version of Oh My God they did at rio (but didnt fuck up on the last verse) they woulda got some great reviews? I freaking love the new way they play that song..

Oh My God = The synth opener they used in rock in rio may not be as memorable as the intro to jungle.. but its still a very cool intro with the drums and all... very good rocker all around (let me stress that im not talking about Oh My God studio..)

Chinese Democracy = As soon as Axl finished Oh My God they shoulda busted out into this song.. Axl could have said something like "this is chinese democracy"...

Madagascar = for the "epic" new song... so people still knew axl was "deep" ect.

thats what the songs shoulda been. all new.

^ I think three new songs would have been totally stupid, you are supposed to be getting "guns n roses" back after this long lay off who are supposed top be a legendary band (well the afd band) and they are to play 3 songs no one has ever heard..?? The way they did it was perfect they did two songs everyone knew that were famous... Opener and closer with one new song in there.. If axl would have followed through and released something then the amount of songs at the vmas wouldn't have mattered.. I think the selection was perfect then maddy should had been their first single

^ I understand what your trying to say here... but Axl was trying to prove the new band.. why not play the new stuff? All those songs (cept maybe the 2nd one) are totally kick ass. It just blows me away that Axl came back and played like only AFD songs during '01 and '02. Maybe 1 old song and 2 new songs would have been better. Who knows?

Your right in saying that if Axl had followed through this wouldn't be a big deal (what he played at the VMAs) but since he didn't.. and we have nothing to talk about.. haha. You get the point.

Mike, Like yourself and many others on this site I have been a serious hardcore guns fans since 1986. So obviously I have seen the band through every stage of their careers. I was seriously excited about the vma's and the live performances in 02 which I was fortunate enough to see two gigs then. Its about evolving! Guns have done that and Axl still demands the attention of every one he is playing too with his unique on stage prescense! Mike

I totally agree with what you say...... But done is done. hopefully, next time...

if they pulled it off it was a great idea.  it was the highlights of the live show.  open with jungle then madascar to highlight the new stuff and close with paradise.  it's the best way to fit in the most in such a small period of time.  Axl wanted to give the most to his fans that did not see him in years.  How do you go up there and pick just one old song.  Or one new one.  Anyone who saw them live knows that he sounds way better than that.  Also, even with the issues... it was still really fuckin cool and they fuckin rocked the place harder than anyone else in years.  It was intense and who gives a fuck about the sound issues.  Axl was a mad man running around giving everything he had into it.  Also, he's not a fuckin pussy.  He may be a recluse but maybe its just that he's not a media/attention whore.  He has no problem putting on a great show and his voice is as good as its ever been.  At least it was on all the bootlegs I saw and at HOB when I was there.

then again why introduce three newer songs or completly new songs if you weren't going to do anything more then a very short tour and not release the album.. FOr me personally it was great to hear the two classic gnr tunes everyone knows being it was a comeback.. The crowd was so excited because they knew the tunes as was I... Everyone feels different.... I was still trying to take them in as gnr ..

lol. why would you play any songs when you weren't going to do anything more then a very short tour and not release the album..? I think thats a dumb question. Im pretty sure that wasnt in Axls "plan." but, if he had followed through Oh My God, Chinese Democracy, and Maddy would have been perfect songs... even more so than WTTJ, Maddy, and PC... imagine the whole stage dark during the synth intro to omg... and everybody like "what the fuck?" and suddenly that quick fucking jump into the song with like pryotechnics... axls fuckin energy...  the buckethead solo (which TOTALLY kicks ass.)... and the rest of the band just throwing themselfs out there would have been KICK ASS. Chinese Democracy would have been "the album title track".. and a nice chill out from the fast song that omg was.. and then maddy would have been the last track. perfect closer.

The vmas was Axls perfect chance to show off the new band/new material and he blew it by playing 2 songs from 1987. I dont care how much I love the old shit, and how fucking classic it is. It was Axls time to let go.

in the end it doesnt matter. axl could have played anything.. and as long as the album came through, by fucking 2006 I seriously doubt anyone would be having a discussion about the 2002 VMAs...

...... or maybe he can say something like HOORRRIUUKIIINNN!! :drool:

hahaha. axl could fit into that game eh?

Mike, you have a point. But surely Axl didn't plan on a tour derailment and more album delays. But if it was designed to be a nostalgic experience, then he was correct in playing classics. But if Axl really has a desire to move GNR forward, its time for him to do what he always wanted to do:Bury AFD. I'm not saying he should or can top it, but he needs to allow it to remain in the past, at least for awhile.  I have no desire to see Axl/GNR become a third rate version of the Stones and be required to play their most famous song whether theyre playing a full concert or a 5 minute Superbowl/VMA performance. Everytime you see the Stones, theyre always playing Start Me Up. Jungle has become GNR's Start me Up. I've said it before, but Axl needs to take a page from John Fogerty's book and let the past languish in the past. : ok:

I think the rest of the band wants to let the past languish in the past sort of speak as well. They've been sitting on this material they've been recording for eons, so when Axl finally blows the whistle, I think they want to lavish in playing the new big guns and not shit from almost 2 decades ago :-\

I'm sure the initial idea immediately following the VMA's was to tour a bit and realease the album. But, much like everything else in Axl's world, things are subject to frequent change depending on his mood. For all any of us know his whole 'I don't know if soon is the word...' speech post performance was a spur of the moment thing when he realized how badly the 'return of GnR' had just gone.

Like it or not, that performance was not the way to ring in the new GnR. Sorry. It's quite possible Axl felt the same way and being the somewhat emotional guy he is he had a sudden change of heart between leaving the stage and talking to Kurt Loder.

Anything is possible in the world of GnR.

The VMA's wasn't perfect, but on the contrary.. I just MSG, NY DVD from 02 out. Listen to Welcome To The Jungle and Out Ta Get Me! Fucking insane! Axl sounds mean and fucking brilliant!

Have you noticed that everything about Guns is just frustrating? Nothing goes as it should, we try hard to find excuses for the sake of our hopes that GNR will finally be what they used to be in the old days. But in actual fact, all that we are left with is a bad taste...and I'm afraid it will never fade away... :(

I think you'll find a lot of it will fade away with an album  :)