Here Today... Gone To Hell!

In this Wikipedia article, there are quite a few references to a lost album of 12-13 songs recorded shortly before Slashs departure.

Im sceptical that it exists myself. I believe it was more damage control at the time from Duff - what do people think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axl_Rose

I'm sure it existed at some point but has probably been thrown into the proverbial dustbin that have been Axl's attempts at a finished album in the last 12 years. But who knows, I truly believe that someday, the enitre story of this band will be told--all these lost years will be documented, and maybe some archived material will surface. Of course, i'll be 60 when this happens, but it will :drool:

Also:

Also, there are unconfirmed rumors that Sanctuary Music Publishing was beginning to take the early steps of release for the album and was planning on spreading news to reintroduce the band to the world.

Where'd he get this little nugget from ???

I don't have a source, but I remember reading a radio transcipt from around '96, where duff says they have 12 songs or so, and they sound great. So there must be some songs in the can somewhere, finished or not. Here's a question: If Slash/Duff/Matt has some GN'R songs from 95/96, can they release them? After all, the Hollywood Rose CD came out (feat. Axl) w/o Axl's permision, so if there is a "lost" album, could Slash and comp. put it out?

I remember i have an old Article from 96 where Matt says they have recorded about 4 or 5 killer songs..All great rock songs ..no epics..

Could it be the "Unwanted  Illusions" boot that circulates???

No it was after that.

I guess that would be more to do with the record company who own the recordings? Like the fashion GH was released.

I believe that the songs were said to be "Not as hard as appetite.. but not as epic as the illusions"... Im pretty sure they were going to be groove based songs.. matt said something about not knowing "Duff could play like that"..

It would have been intresting.. probably just a weird offshoot record.

Rocker
Epic
Experiemental

Who knows... I doubt they'll EVER be released.

put out a "Forgotton Greatness" album, songs that got scrapped.  It would own but will never happen hehe

Matt: [...] We are working on rock songs that last only 4 minutes (laugh). We already did 7 songs and we will write 7 others.
H.R.: Will it be a normal CD or something strange again?
Matt: No, it will be a single album with 10 or 12 songs.

Matt: [...] Even if we don't sell any copy of the next album, I will be very proud of what we did. But I don't worry about it, I know that what we are doing right now is great.
H.R.: What style of music will it be? More like Appetite or Illusion?
Matt: I would say that it's in between. This is not as sophisticated as Illusion, but not as wild as Appetite. It's in the middle. Maybe more groovy. Musically, we are all better. I never heard Duff play like that. - Matt, 96 (http://qfg.info/misc/mattsorum96.txt)

--

[Slash] enthuses about the new material Guns N' Roses have been writing. Apperently, the band members are currently trading tapes amongst themselves. "It's amazing stuff," he says. "The songs are really good, and I have a good vibe about it. I wouldn't want to go out and do a bad Guns N' Roses record."

"Well, I think everyone's so pissed off and frustrated at this point that it's inevitable," he smiles. "It's gonna be an angry record, but that's what we were built on." - Slash, 96 (http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52838/Aritcle_wady_960921.html)

If this album really exists, we will only see it after Axls death. Something like Nirvanas unreleased songs, every Greatest Hits or The Best of, they put one or two unreleased.
 

I'm sure that Axl deleted every second if he had the chance.

I just read that article that sic posted and it is focking awesome.  What an inside look to what was going on.  A must read.

Based on Axl's comments (among others), This I Love is a post-UYI track, which they might've originally recorded during that time. I think it's the one song from the old band that has a chance to survive from the vault. Of course, don't expect to hear Slash and Duff on it if it's included to CD.

Thats something that really scares me. Even if Chinese Democracy is released, Id still love to hear the music they recorded post-UYI, and Im sure if the record company ever inquired as to releasing it, Axl very well would/or for all know, already erased the songs...

so, they made an album theyre ALL happy about, and then what... axl decided to redo all the songs..... with synthesizers??
i just dont get it, what could have happened!?

Do we know if Axl recorded vocals for these songs? This I Love is supposed to be completed, but what other song titles from this era? I remember Zach Wild saying that Axl wasnt doing much lyric writing around 95-96 with the music they had.

The more you crossreference Slash's and Matt's interviews, the weirder it gets. Slash interview was done just before the Pepsi Island Festival in Hungary (August 14th). Matt's interview was done when Neurotic Outsiders played in France (September 23rd ). Matt said a lot of songs had been worked on. Meanwhile, Slash had been out doing Snakepit. Once Slash arrives, Duff and Matt almost simultaneously release their album and leave to tour behind it. Matt feared his touring with Snakepit would jeopardize the band, whereas touring with Neurotic is OK. And who did these seven songs? Slash was not around, not until late September :confused:


"Let's put [Matt's absence from Snakepit] to politics, put it that way. I think that would have further accentuated the situation between Axl and I had I done that. It was financial reasons as well." - Slash, 95 (http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52838/Aritcle_wady_Oct_1995.html)

"Axl asked me not to go on tour with Slash. [...] I didn't want to endanger Guns N' Roses. If I toured with Snakepit, it could have cause serious consequences. It could have divide GNR." - Matt, 96 (http://qfg.info/misc/mattsorum96.txt)

"I haven't rehearsed with them, or even been in the same room with them, since before the Snakepit record came out (in ?95)." - Slash, 96 (http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52838/Aritcle_wady_960921.html) <= Namely Axl; Slash shared the stage with NO in late '95.

"I had a nine-hour rehearsal yesterday (not GNR). Tonight, I've got to go home, pack and get on a plane to Hungary."
"The plan," announces Slash, "is for Duff (McKagan, bass) and Matt (Sorum, drums) to take off their band, Neurotic Outsiders, for a while., leaving me and Axl to write stuff." - Slash, 96 (http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-52838/Aritcle_wady_960921.html)

H.R.: Guns N' Roses is supposed to be in rehearsal and you're in Paris. Not really convenient?
Matt: Axl is real cool with the Neurotic, he loves the album and he doesn't say it to be polite.

Matt: Right now, [Axl]'s playing guitar and it's like he plays that instrument for 10 years. [...]
H.R.: Since Axl is playing guitar does that mean there won't be any replacement for Gilby?
Matt: No, there's someone, but I can't tell you his name.
H.R.: Is he well-known?
Matt: No. He's unknown. But I can't tell you his name because I don't know if he will tour with us. - Matt, 96 (http://qfg.info/misc/mattsorum96.txt)

--

Q: Are Guns N' Roses back together in the studio as a band, or are you recording your various parts separately?
Slash: At this point in time we have only been collaborating together. But we have been doing mostly Axl's material.

Q: What direction will the new album take? Will you do alot of different things like Use your Issulion or a more hard edge like Appetite?
Slash: I would like it to be hard edged like Appetite, but at this moment in time I have no idea what direction it's going in. I have only been back in the band for three weeks and my relationship with Axl right now is sort of at a stand still.

Q:  Is Axl going to be the permanent rythum player? Or is that classified information?
Slash: As far as I know, Axl's intention is not to be the rhythm guitar player. - Slash, 16th Oct. '96 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/misc/chat.htm)

--

Was the elusive new guitar player Paul Tobias or Robin Finck? Place your bets.

Id guess Matt was refering to Paul Huge because he said the reason his name could not be revealed was because he wasnt certain whether he'd be touring with them, and ultimately Paul left GnR because he wasnt comfortable on the road for a long time, or in a live atmosphere as much as the studio. Obviously if it was Robin, he would have been more than willing to tour as thats exactly what he was for NIN, a touring musician.

Could've been. Axl has referred to Tobias as a songwriter complementing Slash's style. This could mean someone, who's brought in to work on Axl's songs as Slash's temporary replacement. Meaning, somone who could step in and keep forging Axl's ideas into playable songs, while Slash was still doing Snakepit. It sounds pretty crazy that those seven songs might've actually been worked on by a lineup consisting of Axl (vox, rhythm guitar), Duff, Matt and Paul Tobias (lead guitar)!

If one wants to play with this idea further, Slash was pissed at Paul Tobias about the SFTD debacle. Wonder how he might've reacted after initially hearing the songs worked by the rest of the band (which he liked), and being told Tobias has been writing the material with Axl, and is set to contribute to the album?

Was Warren DeMartini ever jamming with the band? I read that in Hit Parader years and years ago.

WHAT!?
that would be SO awesome, Warren is an amazing guitarist!

Wasn't De Martini in that VH1 documentary last year? Anyone remember did he touch base with that story?
--

As for that guitarist, it was Huge alright:

By September 1996, Slash was so miserable that he swore, "I'm going to confront it. Either Paul goes, or..." A month later, Rose announced that Slash had quit the band.

But Indiana wasn't done yet. A year on, Matt Sorum introduced Rose to former Nine Inch Nail guitarist Robin Finck, advising that he would make a great foil for Slash - who could then be restroed to the lineup Rose said, "No, he would be a great replacement for Slash." - Q Mag, 2001 (http://hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/art-200105-Q.html)

Did Sorum just allude he considered the whole recruiting Robin only as a scheme to lure Slash back; as in "We can't find a replacement"? Or was he to be the new rhythm guitarist, effectively dismissing Paul Huge - thus opening a door for Slash?


Funny detail on Matt leaving:

Matt: [...] You know, humm, [Axl] fired me 2 or 3 times and he called me back?
H.R.: What do you mean by "He fired me 2 or 3 times"?
Matt: (Laugh) You never heard the rumors? Yes, we all have been fired at least 1 time! You never heard about it (laugh)? Seriously, it's true that he sometimes goes too far. Sometime I open my mouth and I say "Ok, Axl, fuck off!", then he fires me. So? I know he will call me the next day. - Matt, 96 (http://qfg.info/misc/mattsorum96.txt)

"Then Paul Huge walked into the studio and made a bad comment about Slash," says Sorum. "I said, You don't say that when I'm in the room." Then Axl laid in, I argued with him and it was over. Huge followed me out into the parking lot and said, Come back. I said, I can't come back, he's fired me." - Q Mag, 2001 (http://hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/art-200105-Q.html)

Guess Axl didn't call him to come back anymore.

Yeah, we might get a box set of material from all those different sessions if we're lucky. But it will be after this CD saga is finally over. Back in the 90's, I seen a Metallica box set that had 4 cds of demos from Kill Em All, Ride the Lightening, and Master of Puppets studio sessions. It was over 100 dollars, so I didn't buy it. Maybe we'll get a similar box set from GNR in the future. I will buy the GNR set regardless of the cost. :o

In the name of equality, here's a couple of words from Axl:

I feel that some of the recordings we did in that limited amount of time had some of the best playing that Slash had done at least since Illusions. I was there. I know what I heard and it was pretty exciting. - Axl, 2002 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=82)

Very limited... Late September/early October '96, I gather. But basically enough time for someone like Slash to lay down a good number of guitar parts.

I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith?s Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don?t know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It?s not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs. Since none of that happened, that?s the reason why that material got scrapped. - Axl, 2002 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=82)

I wish he'd release it anyway. A half-assed GN'R album of demos from '96 would be better than nothing.

Those comments by Axl still blow me away to this day.  WHAT THE FOCK WENT WRONG IN THOSE THREE WEEKS?  Was it Zakk Wylde?  Huge?  Fink?  Snakepit?  Some of the riffs off of Snakepit were pretty damn bad ass if you ask me, but this was after that.  I think that is the album we all want to hear.  And yes, they still have those songs.  Trust me, they still have them.

Well, after going through a lot of this stuff, I could try name a few.

- Inability to decide on a new rhythm guitarist.

Paul Huge was, first and foremost, Axl's replacement for Izzy the songwriter, not Izzy the rhythm guitarist. Why he played on STFD is anybody's guess; ultimately I don't think his playing was that much of a problem - it was the fact that Slash wasn't informed.

Zakk Wylde was brought in for a week of jamming after the STFD incident, but he went to tour with Ozzy afterwards as "everything takes fucking five trillion fucking years to get done", when it came down to writing a contract with GNR. Wonder how did Slash feel about having Zakk around; he's certainly picky when it comes to his rhythm guitarists.

During Appetite..., Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on [TSI]. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect! - Slash, '93 (http://hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/art-199311-OK.html)


- Snakepit album/tour.

[Axl] just wasn't into what we were doing, so he's kind of rethinking what he wants to do. He just kind of threw a wrench into everything that me, Slash and Matt had worked to. And then Duff came in. Duff and Axl have an idea what the album should be, and the rest of us have another idea. - Gilby, '94 (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=60)

Axl had second thoughts about the Snakepit songs, and when he came around to ask Slash a chance to work on them, they were already gone. This, along with Slash's plans to tour extensively with Snakepit, tightened the situation between the two of them.


- Overall lack of communication

Slash is out with Snakepit, Duff and Matt tour with Neurotic Outsiders, Axl is AWOL... The biggest problem was obviously the fact that it seemed impossible to get everybody in the same room for more than year. You cant' decide on anything as a band unless all the members are present. What made it worse was the fact that Axl and Slash had serious issues to resolve (Paul Huge, Snakepit), and both of them avoided confrontation for too long.


What they seemingly did agree on was the musical direction. Slash didn't leave because of an industrial album. The album that was in the making was "back to basics"-GNR. Axl's intention was to make an album complementing Slash's style, it was only after he quit when the musical direction began to chance.

Maan, what a fucking asshole!! Against Axl AND Izzy!!
What is his fucking problem!! :rant: Grrrr!!!!
Slash can go to hell!!
Great guitar player, shame about the assholish behavior.

Shame about Buckethead too... he was alwayz weird, but I never took him for an asshole until I heard that he did fuck all and was only using Gn'R to further his solo career... fuckin' chickenfucker.

Slash said a lot of that out of anger because Izzy left him high and dry with only two weeks to find a rythym player for the Illusions tour.  Later, in VR years, that Izzy was the only guitar player that truly got him.  He like Gilby, but Gilby was too "aware" of what Slash was doing.  Izzy really presented the push-pull cocept that Slash needs.

I agree. There was alot of resentment towards Izzy during old GNR's last days. They all must have known it was basically over, and held some resentment and blame towards Izzy for leaving. I'm sure they realized later on why he left when he did.

If it exists Geffen can release it no matter what Axl says. ie: the Greatest Hits

If Geffen had the '96 demos, they'd be out by now. If the Hollywood Rose demos got out, the "lost" GN'R album would be sure to get released. I'll bet the demos are in Axl's vault, so who knows. My guess is, and this is only a guess, he doesn't want to release it because (1) its not finished (2) he's trying to establish the Nu-GN'R.

That is NOT true since the GHs songs were already released. If that were true then Geffen could have released CD 4 years ago.

I agree with Dave.  They have gotten probably dozens of songs for CD.  So I don't think they would realese that.  I guess because it would probably be illegal.  Also, I would assume that Axl is not the only owner of those songs.  I mean, the engineer, producer, Duff, Matt, and Slash could all own (possess) some of those demos.

That was a strange post. :confused:

Dave, Geffen owns the rights to ALL GNR music. It's their money that's been burned  to record GNR's albums since 1987 to right now.

It was my understanding that Geffen were the ones who stopped CD's release in 1998 and told Axl to go back and "touch it up."

Where did you hear that?

indeed, thats not true, just gossip as everything is without Axl's own comments

Yeah I have definitely NEVER heard about that.  Maybe the poster could show us a source???

Wasn't the album referred to as "Back to Basics"?    I am certain that it is talked about in the liner notes of one of the industrial tributes to GNR. I believe that "This I Love" was originally recorded during this time.

There was talk for a while of Izzy returning. I think that he even worked with them for a while.

Steve Jones from teh Sex Pistols was also rumored to have joined or considered it during this time.

Axl said it in one of his interviews. There aren't many since the Loader interview in 99 (it may be that one) so you can find it.

I figured I'd bump this one up, since I just stumbled upon yet another quote. Helps construct the timeline.



Duff interview, dated August 30th, 1996 (http://www.mygnr.com/news/1996/960830.html)

Guns N' Roses is back working together again, according to bassist Duff McKagan. [...] "We've been in for two weeks as a full band with Slash and Axl (Rose) and me, and we go from midnight to five in the morning," McKagan said from L.A. "With Guns, there's no problems with material. The problem has always been getting us in the same room. So now that we're in there, it's rockin'."

The record will be all up-tempo rock songs ("No ballads," McKagan said firmly) and it will be just 12 songs, with a release planned for next spring. A summer tour would likely follow."

On Neurotic Outsiders/Axl: On this tour we're doing, Matt and I fly back from Toronto (NO played there on Sept. 8th) and then we do four days with Guns (recording) and then we go back out, so Matt and I are playing every single night with one or the other (bands) in September," McKagan said.

Keyboard player Dizzy Reed is also back in the GN'R lineup, but there's been a big change up front: Rose is now playing rhythm guitar. "For the last couple of years, he started to go, 'Okay, I'm going to play guitar and actually learn what these notes are.' It's an innocent guitar, not unlike Izzy (Stradlin, ex-GN'R guitarist) was, but Axl's got a lot more musically than Izzy ever did.''

---

So, the 'lost' sessions with the UYI lineup (sans Gilby) lasted from mid to late August, with a possible additional week in early September. That would explain Slash's comment on being in the band for three weeks - he didn't go back to the studio between early September and his firing in late October, probably. Paul Huge was involved at some point, possibly working as a song writer. So having seven songs at some stage of completition sounds feasible.

By September 1996, Slash was so miserable that he swore, "I'm going to confront it. Either Paul goes, or..." A month later, Rose announced that Slash had quit the band. - Q Mag, 2001 (http://hem.passagen.se/snoqalf/art-200105-Q.html)

Looks like the sessions didn't go too well when Duff and Matt left to tour, leaving Axl, Slash (and possibly Paul) to their own devices.

thanks sic.  : ok:

cool stuff, its been a great day for old articles.

there was a time (lol) where they could have got back together one feels, but there still was arguments over the "we're playin mostly axl's material"

could the band have worked it out for a moment?

They had 7 songs, most of that material written by Axl and Paul. The band steps in, recording their respective parts. This likely includes Slash's trademark guitar solos and Axl doing the rhythm guitar (could this be his response to the STFD incident, not getting Paul in with Slash?).

But when Slash and Axl should've written the additional half a dozen songs together, things got sour. I can only imagine it would've been better with Duff and Matt present. That way Axl might've not had had to rely on Paul to give in his two cents. I guess that's the problem: Slash liked the material they had done up to that point.

Maybe it wasn't Paul's writing, but the fact that Slash saw him stepping in as a permanent (studio) rhythm guitarist, or atleast someone who'd have a huge (pun intended) impact on the GNR sound, having already written half the album with Axl. So he might've seen it as a control issue on Axl's part, where he [Slash] wouldn't have as much to say on the music as he did before.

Yes, This I Love was recorded during the UYI era, and expected on CD.

I wrote and recorded a new love song that I want on the next record called This I Love, that?s the heaviest thing that I?ve ever done. Other than that, we?re not even sure how we?re gonna approach writing for this next album. Last time Slash would write his songs, I would write mine and Izzy would write his, and then we?d put ?em all together. Well, this time there?s no Izzy, and Slash isn?t writing just his songs ? it?s gonna be more of a collaboration thing. - Axl in Hit Parader (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=146), 1994

"This I love" is actually an old GN'R song that the original GN'R wrote and recorded for the "Illusion" records. I like that song a lot.. it took a couple of weeks to find all the tapes because they finished recording "Use Your Illusions" on the road and one tape was in Paris another in London and another in Sydney I believe. - Dave Dominguez in Sp1at (http://web.archive.org/web/20050319120145/www.sp1at.com/item.php?id=93), he worked with GNR as an engineer back in '98 or so.?

Dominguez might be a bit lost here, the song was recorded on tour, but was probably never intended to be included for UYI.

Since they had to track down the tapes, it's possible This I Love was not intended for the 'lost' album either, since the band was doing a different thing and it might've not fit in (think Don't Cry/Nov. Rain and AFD).
 

VERY TRUE.

In my opinion, Axl brang Paul Huge in the band (Paul Huge = 3rd guitar player, with Slash and Gilby) to reduce Slash's influence in Guns N' Roses.
I've always though Axl was getting jealous of Slash because he was getting as popular as him. Axl had a big ego, he didn't like that, he wanted the FULL control of the band so he decided to hire Paul Huge to "eliminate" Slash. To force him to leave.

For me Axl still continues to do it to a certain extent when he decided to hire Bumblefoot 3 or 4 days before the 2006 Tour starts because Axl doesn't want a new Slash in GN'R again, he doesn't want a new real popular guitar player. That's why he hired a 3rd guitar player, The Slash/Gilby and Paul Huge thing is repeateating again with Finck/Fortus and Bumblefoot. Bumblefoot was imposed by Axl to the band.

This I love.  :P

Gilby was gone, gone, gone before Paul got in.

No three guitarist in the mid-90's. Just Axl (vox, rhythm guitar), Slash (lead guitar), Duff (bass), Matt (drums) and Dizzy (keyboards). How many guitars is that?

no, no basically there were 3 guitar players by the time "Sympathy For the Devil"? was released ((mid-late 1994): Slash, Gilby and Paul Huge.
YES, Paul Huge played on this song.
Gilby said a short time after he would never agree to play in a 3 guitar players band. He hated that idea. Slash hated that idea too.
I tell you, Axl brang SHIT in the band when he hired Tobias.?Both Slash and Gilby really didn"t like that freaking idea (epecially Slash). They both said it in interviews back in the days.
That's why since day one, i've never liked this 3 guitar players thing: I'm afraid the History can repeat itself with this new line-up. You know... I think it's a bad idea. It creates ego problems.

Reading your posts is a bad idea.  ::)

"Ego problems" exist in most bands. They existed in your old dream band as well. They exist in Oasis too.


Stop thinking your ideas are always correct, that you're the spokesperson for all GN'R fans and that you know what's going on.



/jarmo

if Slash felt indangered by Huge, than he was an idiot.
1st, huge never could compare to Slash
2nd, Huge didnt want to play for the band at all, as matt said, and as proven in 2002.

That's not "my" ideas. It doesn't come from my mind!
All those things were said by Slash and Gilby themself, and i read it in some French musical magazines back in the days (1995/96). There was even a TV reportage on french Tv in 1995 or 1996, it was called "Rock express" and Slash said he hated Tobias and he was one of the reason the old-band broke up. he said it. That's not "my" ideas.

Gilby sucked......

gilby ruled and I'm pretty sure he was fired before sftd...

Read what I said.

I didn't mention Paul. You were babbling about the current line up again.


Many people here are getting tired of your constant whining about "too many guitar players" and "all fans want Slash back".



/jarmo

Gilby ruled at being Slash's mime....he ruined the only album he played on.. : ok:

well, I kinda agree that most people(note- I didnt say "fans") want slash back.
they just are not familiar with the new lineup, and there's always the fear of the unknown.
but the point is, that it's not up to people or fans to decide, but up to Axl. his head is on the line, and there's no turning back.

whatever, they had/have amazing chemestry together, check out pawnshop guitars & it's five oclock somewhere they both play on both those disks, they were a great guitar tandem, i've been thiinking recently that Slash wanted Gilby and Axl wanted Huge and that was a big part in the "Creative Differences" compare cure me or kill me and monkey chow to back off bitch and oh my god....


I dunno about you but I'd rather have the first two if i had to choose

I'd rather have none of them :beer: back on topic, I highly doubt there was one note of vocals on any of these lost recordings. If there was, it was just scratch vocals. >:(

haha fair enough....there are some pretty highly sought after rough demos with those scratch vocals, and if these ever surface I'm sure they'd be at the top of that list :peace: and if they are in axl's "vault" then there is always a chance :hihi:

ps I like Gilby...think he is a funny guy. His comments on Behind the Music were priceless. I just think him and Slash weren't really a good combo-too much alike. To me, they sounded too tight-almost like Gilby was playing the same riffs whereas Izzy was loose and doing his own thing. :-\ 8)

Bands have had 3 guitar players before and it has worked out fine, Lynyrd Skynyrd and Iron Maiden being the 2 most obvious examples.

There is no such word as "brang." I think the word you're searching for is "brought" and frankly, none of us know if that is true or not. It's all based in speculation. Bottom line, there were personality issues, and it didn't work out over the long haul. That happens when people work closely together for an extended period of time.

For the record, I would like to hear the songs recorded during this time as much as anyone else, but I don't spend much time thinking about it because hearing them sounds like a long shot at best.

As the legal owner of the GNR name, would Axl have the authority to delete these tapes, or would they reside in Geffen's vaults?  If the answer is the former, I would imagine that this musical magic vanished long ago.

I would say that Axl has ALL the recordings since he was always working on the album-no matter who was in the band. He doesn't own them but I would think he has all the tapes.... ???

In that case, I believe we've got a lost cause here, and it's really unfortunate.  It's obvious that without Slash, that blues based rock boogie will never be making a return to GNR.  Truth is, as much as I adore the new band, I could use a bit of that right about now, even if the tracks were all instrumental.

Yes, it's "brought" not "brang" indeed. My grammar is not always perfect. :P

if any of that olschool gnr material ever surfaced the would indeed be great but as you said the chance of that is rather small.

If axl has got his hands on them i guess we woun't see them before he is thrue with his active music career.

I think Axl wants to move forward and not focus on the old band and old material.

It's high time since he hasn't released an album since 1991.


BTW I have to correct nesquick: Gilby was fired months (I'd say half a year) before Paul really came into the picture. But as far as we know Axl, it's a high possibility that he fired Gilby to make room for Paula.

About the Slash/Gilby duo: it's absolutely untrue that Gilby played almost the same Slash did. Listen to the first Snakepit record: the guitars compare each other, it's very similiar to AFD, unlike the UYI twins where wasn't too much collaboration between Slash and Izzy and the songs suffered it.


Back to the topic: I think a lot of quotes from the band members made it clear that they had material, that should have been enough for more than one album. I'd add to the conversation that as far as I know Steve Jones was supposed to be a guest player on the UYI-follow-up, but the things he had done with the band landed on the Neurotic album.

I haven't read through this but an interesting thread. damn good job sic. : ok:
axl wrote like 7 materials with paul then?
maybe OMG and some of the songs played live in 2002?
Tommy told about as how he checked the mixed songs..some of which dated back to the old era.
and wasn't this i love supposed to be on cd?
I bet we'll hear many of them on the upcomming albums. :yes:

Well, Mikka, if you are trying to say that the guitar work on Snakepit matches the UYI albums, then we are on two different planets. ::) Sure, there are some tasty Slash licks, but overall, the album is shit and the interplay between guitarists is shit. To each his own I guess. I am just not a fan of Gilby...don't think he is fit to hold Izzy's jock in any capacity.  : ok:

I have an old news report on video tape from MTV back in '96-97 (when slash left the band,) where kurt loader reads a letter written by axl. that says there is (about) 13 new tracks and (about) 8 b-sides to be released within a year.? so for this to be even remotely true there must have been many tracks already started or somewhat complete.

I also read an magazine interview with duff, where the reporter asked about the unfinished songs from CD before he left. Duff said thoses songs weren't finished (so they must have been started) and that he hopes that "contraband" would satisfy people becuse the CD album was never finished.
 

I know this is a bit off topic, but this conversation has strayed so much, it covers everything.

Imagine if Axl had become the rhythm guitarist.  If they went on tour, he would have to sing and play, and we'd have no more of Axl's classic stage moves.  The energy would be gone.  Unless he just played on the album and they hired a touring guitarist, of course.  :)

While we're on corrections; 1991 wasn't the last time a GNR record was released.

I'm a longtime fan of Iron Maiden, I can say that 3 guitars don't add anything new to Iron Maiden, except for a (unnecessarily) powerful guitar sound, which eliminates most of the elegance in the Iron Maiden sound. They have 3 guitarist not because of necessity, but because they couldn't fire Janick Gers who stayed with the band for +10 years, when Adrian came back.

Iron Maiden guitarists don't have personal or musical pursuits as much as any GNR guitarist had.

very true eddieson. Although I'm not a fan of Iron Maiden (I like a couple of their songs), I recognize they are a great band and they have made a great career. They have 3 guitar players, alright. But none of them are "recognized" as unique guitar player. Maybe they would if each of them played in a 2 guitar players band. They are all very good, but the truth is that they don't shine enough to get a full musical and artistic recognizion, they just "eat" each other in Iron Maiden, because none of them have enough space, just like in the newGNR.

The more players you have, the less they can shine and express their indivudual talent. In fact, you have much more to loose with 3 guitar players (ego conflicts, under-exploited and under-rated players in the band, few recognizion etc...) than to gain (a fuller sound, but it's stupid because basically a 2nd Keyboardist can do that, it's his job!).

Seriously, look at Fortus, this is a shame he plays so few lead parts. He is trully under-exploited.
When you have 2 keyboards, you don't need 3 guitar players.

One of the most basic rock bands around these days, Pearl Jam, use both a keyboard player and third guitar player (whenever Eddie picks up a guitar).


If they want to "express their individual talent", there can go solo. It's a band for fuck's sake.

If it's best for the band to have three guitar players, then that's what you do.



/jarmo

Jarmo:
1) as you said, there is one keyboard player in pearl jam. One. Not two. It changes everything. Do you know that Pittman plays guitar parts with his keyboard? yes, he plays guitar. So the newGNR needs reall 3 guitar players now? so it's like FOUR guitar parts onstage? well... don't you think it's a little bit "too much"?
2) Ediie plays guitar on a few songs. Most of the time he sings, just like Axl. Plus he plays rythm guitar, he is not a Lead guitar player. You don't see the guitar solos played by 3 guys in the same song.

Jarmo, I have an idea: I know you reproach me to talk about this 3 guitar players thing on lots of thread. So let's do something: Do you want me to create a unique thread for that? it will avoid to bring this subject on every thread. Just a unique thread where people could debate about that.
Tell me if you agree with that idea. Thanks.

It's not too much if the performer(s) think it's what's needed.

I like the full sound.

I don't have a problem with people "not shining". I don't see that. I think they all play their parts very well.


They all play solos during the shows. Something you protest by the way.

So here you're complaining they're not allowed to shine, and in other threads you complain about too may solos.  ::)





As far as I remember, he plays solos as well.




Go ahead, the Dead Horse section is yours to post that in. Be my guest.

Because that's where it belongs along with your "we need Slash back" posts.



/jarmo

Very true. With 3 guitar players (when all of them plays solos) the spotlight is shared. It means that none of them has to 'fight' with Slash or the memory os Slash (at least not alone), they share the responsibility, there isn't 'the guy who replaces Slash' thing, which takes off a lot of pressure from the players. On the other hand Axl's 3 guitarist move causes that noone can outshine him in the band, noone can come even close to him in popularity. Believe me, the idea has nothing to do with the band's sound since none of the new songs we've heard so far needs 3 guitarists. There can be 3, but even 2 could do it well.

Absolutely. This is just a question of control. I mean, with 2 keyboards, and 2 guitars (Fortus and Finck),?does GN'R need a 3rd guitar player to play it's so easy, brownstone, heaven's door or The Blues? my ass! This is bullshit. Complete bullshit. It prooves Axl doesn't want a new guy who could challenge him over the popularity aspect.. so he put 3 guitar players: no spotlight for any of them. No new Slash. Axl doesn't want to share the spotlight and the glory again: There is him, and "all the rest"... that's his conception of beeing "a band". Nice!
This is just a question of freaking power, control and ego. That's what it is. and that's why I don't like it.

This is awkward.

Is that all you can talk about nesquick?  Christ you're annoying!  Hate Axl's new band?  Easy, you know what to do.  Don't let the door hit you in the ass.

Did I say i hate "Axl's new band"? (I thought it was a band called Guns N' Roses but tell me if i'm wrong).
What's your problem by following me on every message board? are you in love with me? I'm your idol?
get a life, and get some friends! I'm not your friend. Go away.

Hell, gimme a break! That's ridiculous... Axl does have a concept behind the 3-guitars-player-idea! Even if you can't imagine, but there are songs where 3 guitar players are inevitable... Take "Better" as an example: I can't imagine that Izzy and Slash would be able to play that song right... Even Finck and Fortus can't do! Why not? There are different styles in the Song, that can't be played by 2 guitarists...

Axl a control freak? Afraid of competition with his guitar players? Foolish...
Why should he fear the popularity of one of his players? He will be happy, when Finck will become popular, when CD is released.
Axl doesn't want all the glory for himself, he is responsible for the band and he must defend the band as lead singer and as the only one who stands in the puplic...

Stop being such a negative poster, it's annoying if you spread obviously BS...


/Apollon

let's speak seriously :
If so, can you tell me why none of them are allowed to speak? Why none of them are allowed to give interviews? Why all of them seem to be under Axl and GN'R management complete control? Is that beeing "a band"? or is it rather beeing part of a one man show? Because that's the impression I have. Back in the days, Slash was everywhere in the music press, he gave tons of interviews, Duff gave a couple of interviews too. Same for Gilby and same for Axl. You know, there was life! it was cool for the fans! I want Fortus and Finck and Brain and Tomy to be interviewed in magazines or on TV etc... That's beeing a band. I don't want them not beeing allowed to do it by captain Axl because, you know, there are some lines in their contract where it's written they are "not allowed to speak". Wow. Is The Edge "not allowed" to speak by Bono as well in U2? WTF? is that a band?
 
I just want the new members to get more recognizion, not to be Axl's shadows. I don't want them to be threatened by lawsuits everytime they open their mouth. Why? Because I'm attached to the concept of beeing "a band". GN'R has always been a band for me, not a one man show...
Axl took the name, fine, I'm not a guy who says "he should have dropped the name" and blablabla. No. he took it, ok, that's the way it happens, I don't want to debate on this.
But now he got the name, as a consequence, he has some responsabilities with this name: The first one is to re-form a band. Even a different one. But at least "a band".

Funny to see the two Slash supporters telling the board what the new GN'R songs "need".


Stop lying. Aren't you the one complaining about too many solos?

Thanks to nesquick, this is now a Dead Horse.  : ok:



/jarmo

Don't you remember the MTV-Interview with Kurt Lodner interviewing Tommy and Dizzy? Don't you remember all the Emails Fortus & Co are sending to us? Hell, they are talking and there is no contract that abolish speaking! That's another pointless argument of you. But you are right, there are no real Interviews in TV and magazines... But why not? Because all the bandmembers (except Axl) are (still) unknown... Oh think of it, it will change possibly in near future...

And IMHO the band is absolutely a band... Did you watch any of the video recordings from the European Tour? You can see hugs, smile at each other, covers, etc... This is definately a band's interacting how it should be...


/Apollon

nesquick I am not in love with you.  nesquick I am your father.   :o

Jarmo you should do a poll... :hihi:


What Topic is the Deadest Horse?

A) 3 Guitarists
B) Robin Vs Slash
C) Axl keeping the GnR name
D) Too Many Solo's
E) Axl being Late
F) All of the Above

"Deadest Horse" :hihi: Have to remember that one!

he hired BBF (a guitar shredder) to replace BH's parts

At the risk of offending you, I have to say that this is one of the most ridiculously far-fetched theories ever, particularly since each of the 3 guitar players obviously has a strength that they were picked to bring to the band. I'm not going to get into the armchair analysis of Axl since none of us actually know him. Why don't you find another band to complain about for a while? Somewhere in your rich, highly educated life, there must be something else to do.

I think GNR now has 3 guitar players because it's necessary for the new material. And why have one guitarist stand back while they play the old stuff?

I love all the three current guitarists and I hope it stays this way. Back to the topic, I'd love to hear that lost material, even if it were just demos.