Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Isn't this kind of the reason they turned their back on Axl? Aren't these the dudes who said "we just wanted to make Rock N' Roll music."

Hahaaa this is hilarious. Its suddenly cool, to experiment and try something new because Weiland wants too? This is what Axl has been trying to get Twiddle Dee and Twiddle Dum to do isn't it? But trying something new and experimenting all of a sudden sounds like a good idea? It sounds better now because Scott suggested it. Oh ok.

So, Scott is really visionary genius. Who would have thought? Isn't one of the main reasons the old GNR broke up, was because they had different ideas for the future of GNR? Axl wanted them to evolve, and they wanted to do things old school. In that regard VR seemed appropriate for these two. But their new album will be this new step.

Man, I bet Scott Weiland could sell the Brooklyn bridge to Slash and Duff. Weiland should do some sales seminars across the country. He got these two to go along with something Axl couldn't. Fuckin hypocrites....

    I totally agree. I have always thought Slash and Duff could not bear to be overshadowed by Axl's charisma. Now they have their own band where they are the main people. It is interesting that Duff mentioned how happy he is about being respected as players finally. They did not want to be a part of a huge band that is led by a major rock star. They wanted to be recognized as Duff and Slash. I believe they should at least show the decency to respect Axl's ideals because they got what they want but Axl is still trying.

When have Slash of Duff ever said anything about not liking concept albums?  They didn't like the direction Axl was going in.  It had nothing to do with concept albums.  Concept albums can still be staright forward rock albums.  Just look at L.A. Guns' Tales From The Strip.

Plus the album comes out in 2006. At least they didn't have to wait 10 years to make it.  ;)

You're absolutely right. Some people are just full of hatred here and attack Slash and Duff for everything they're doing and even for the opposite they're doing.

But why is it here? Slash and Duff rejoined GN'R?

the minions are probably worried that VR will make a great concept album in ten months not ten years...man that would hurt. ;)

No one is worried about VR making a good album :hihi:

 :hihi:

Im actually interested on this one, we all know this people have talent -or had anyway-  if they get far away from contraband it could turn out to be interesting, especially if it's scott calling the shots...

AND IVE SAID IT BEFORE AND ILL SAY IT AGAIN:

if this album has some piano or ten minute songs; I will laugh my ass off at all the axl haters. : ok:

I wonder if the concept of the album will influence future setlists. As in, they would need to play the whole album rather than a select few.

As someone has said before, concept albums need not be high-art.

Even if S&D are doing a concept album which they didn't want to do with Axl in the 90's...that was like 10 years ago.

A lot happens in 10 years.

Why, Velvet Revolver isn't allowed to use piano or make ten minut songs? Is all piano and 10 minute songs Axl's ideas? what the fuck is your problem?

Chinese D would have come out years ago had they gone along with Axl.

problably because it had more to do with Axl being an egotistical asshole then the musical direction of the band. Being in a band with Scott is a lot easier and a lot more fun for them

Less challenging too.

I really could give a fuck as long as the album is good and everyone in the band wants to do it

They where tired of doing nothing in axelville so they left, who cares what type of album Axl wanted if he never released it and probably never will.

I think people are confused about what a concept album is. Slash and Duff didn't leave GnR because Axl wanted to do a concept album, they left because he didn't want to do what they called Rock and Roll.

A concept album just caries a theme through out. It doesn't mean that it has to leave the VR (S&D) idea of Rock and Roll. It also doesn't mean that they are toying with the idea of including 10 minute piano ballads. The "Axl or Nothing" nut swingers are very very quick to jump on something that they apparently don't understand.

Anyone who has listen to Scott Weiland's solo album can hardly be suprised by his desire to do something a bit more creative this time with VR.  I will admit I was suprised when "The Project" chose Weiland as his singer when he made an album (12 Bar Blues) so close to what Axl probably invisioned for GnR's future. 

As people have already said, with the Axl vs. Weiland comparisions, its less a musical thing and more a personality thing.  Slash and Duff apparantely find it way easier to deal with Weiland than Axl. 

that too. how could I forget that! that's the biggest reason. not because Axl wanted to do a concept album which he didn't

Oh, is that why they left?   ::)

They like to keep it simple.  Innovation wasn't their thing.  They just wanted to be like the rest of the rock bands.

Axl wanted to be different than what was out at the time.  This is probably one of the reasons he still hasn't released CD.  He has to keep changing the sound.  He tries to stay ahead of the game.

He needs to get a little further ahead of the game than everyone else, so they don't keep catching him before he can release a new album.

Yeah, the way I understand it, Duff and Slash left more b/c Axl was a pain in the ass to deal with as well as the musical direction.  As it turns out, Axl still doesn't know what musical direction he wants to go with.

And like many people here already stated, just because a band does a concept album doesn;t mean it can't be rock n roll.  Anyone ever hear of Operation Mindcrime?  Fucking awesome concept album and their making a sequal.

I think it's better for them they left and they had their reasons... Look how long axl and his guys have been working on cd?? I mean that is a reason to drive any one away... They are doing what they all agree on and they are doing it in normal time.. Who wants to work not knowing when they will see their work, or have one guy in charge of everything?? Imagine having to sign shit saying I will not speak of the album?? Sounds pretty childish and gets old quick with the fans

oh my god, would all of yous just drop it.

Slash and Duff are doing an album because they want to,it isnt out yet so we cant comment on the similarities ar differences between it an axls work.

The split was in the past and we'l never know what really happened so we should try an get over it. Axl,Duff and slash all have cus they're gettin on and makin new music.

It's rock n roll, its not meant to be this complicated. Personly im gonna buy VR's new album and (if it ever comes out) Chinese Dimocracy and if i like them i like and if i dont i dont.

The albums are in the future not in the past with all that other shit that happened.

Maybe slash and duff matured, you ever think of that? slash is 40, not in his late 20s anymore.

I am really looking forward to hearing this concept album. Since old GNR broke up, I have always wanted to hear a masterpiece by GNR or ex members. Maybe we're about to hear it. : ok:

I always thought "Chinese Democracy" would sound like "12 Bar Blues" but with more guitars.

Wrong. Axl has said before he wouldn't release the album until it was 'perfect' in his opinion. It's not about Duff and Slash recording their parts. He has also said that he was 'pressured' into releasing UYI... So, IMO even if S&D were still in the band, we'd be waiting as we are now...  ::)

Good point. I think enough time has gone by for people to stop blaming ex members for CD not coming out. The blame can only be pointed in one direction.

clearly they knew what they were doing leaving axl when they did... for starters he has been unable to release an album for over  a decade... he is insane.. also it seemed the direction he wanted to go in the mid ninetys was more of an industrial sound...  like omg and sild worms... granted i like the blues and maddy better than most of contraband...prob becaquse they sound like the perfect follow up to the UI albums... so i'm not trying to rip axl... all i'm saying is that you can't really blame slash and company to want to move one without axl

See the thing is you can never get to pefection...unless you're Mr. Perfect.  That dude was perfect.  Other than him though...not even Axl was perfect.  So justvreleause the damn thgn already.  Wow...this is so incoherent.

I tend to think Axl had a bunch of "Oh My God" Silk Worms type songs which is why SLash and Duff left.

I thought Axl was trying to make a Pearl Jam record back then? :hihi:

who cares what people did so long ago or the direction they wanted back then.. This is (vr) a new band, an older bunch of guys who are just keeping busy and doing thing as a group effort..That's what's important to me.. Hopefully they keep us informed each step of the way

Although Scott is not easy to work with, he's a real egoistic asshole, but even with these attributes he seemed to be a better choice than Axl. Maybe because he wants to work and play live?

Weiland is an egotistical asshole, but I think he still pales in comparision to Axl.

you can be amazing but if you never do anything who cares

almost every big rock star is a egotistical ass.

of course, they have the world by the balls, sold out arenas, all the drugs in the world addoring fans  goupies on their cocks.. Flamboyance and arrogance is part of the attraction.. You can have all those qualities but still be reliable

I agree .

if rock stars guiet haveing egos it would take away from the enjoyment of the hole thing.

there's a big difference between having an ego and being arrogant then to toally forget where you came from, close out the fans, and just run the entire show without anyone else

mmm.. perhaps he's "convincing" because he doesn't behave like a little bitch all the time, not turning up for shows, throwing tantrums all the time etc.. Perhaps he's been able to "convince" them from the angle that he actually sticks to a schedule, can tour and produce albums?

Perhaps if Axl had of shown these traits and not behaved like such a little bitch and shown those members such blatant disregard, they'd have had a little more patience?


Just a thought...

What a dumb ass thread... I don't recall anyone from Gn'r leaving because they didn't want to do a concept album.. I also don't think they were against pushing the envelope and experimenting with their music either, otherwise they wouldn't have does UYI's.. They got tired of Axl being a dictator and a prick.. Tired of his inability to figure out what the hell he wants. Grunge, Industrial, traditional rock?? He has no idea, and changes his mind along with every trend.  It was all about Axl and where he wanted to go with the band and about who he wanted in the band... It's obvious that Axl didn't give a shit where anyone in the band wanted to go but himself.. Let's see... I think I will take Matt, Steven, Izzy, Slash , Duff, Gilby and Buckethead's side on that one...

Wow, you know it all.  Axl was a dictator and a prick, he didn't care about anyone but himself.  When were you in the band?   

It doesn't take a masters in psych to figure out that they left because it was Axl's way or the highway. He wanted them to go down whatever creative path he felt like following and wouldn't budge. Yet the Axl appologists like to paint Slash, Duff, and Matt as the "set in their way" assholes that wouldn't back Axl's creative vision.

Look at the never ending line of people who have ran from Axl....... how can you blame anyone but Axl for the disintigration of the old band, the delays in CD, as well as the departure of newer members.

Did you see me blame anyone?  ::)  All I'm trying to state is that no one here knows the truth.  All anyone can go off of is Slash, Matt's, or Duff's statements, because they are the ones who talk about it.  You've never heard Axl's story.  Does it seem like it's all Axl's fault?  Probably yes, but that's because I have never heard Axl's side.  Just because it's 3 or 4 against 1 doesn't mean that "the 3 or 4" are right.  I'm sure if we all heard the truth one day, some people would agree with Slash and the boys, and some would agree with Axl. 

I don't know anything about the situation, but what I do know is that Axl could have been the nice guy and agreed with whatever the other guys wanted to do.  Or, he could have believed in himself, and wanted to go that rout.  If the latter happens, your going to come off as an ass.  From reading all the information out there on this topic, it seems like the two wanted to go different routes.  Axl was alone, so he looks like the ass.   

well said last two above... No one would be shocked if any other new gnr band member left because of the endless wait and how xl has total control over everything so why not the same way for the old guys?? If axl had it his way you'd probably still be waiting for the illusions

well his rambling press release in 2002 pretty much told his side I thought. You know the one where he called Matt an albatross, claimed Slash nixed ideas because they would work etc ..

the simple point is, Axl has been at the heart of every dispute, fallout, resignation, firing, no-show, riot, cancellation, delay, creative difference, argument, lawsuit etc.. etc.. etc. and the list goes on

Basically, everything negative that has happened to GN'R has had something to do with Axl in some capacity. Thats not to lay the blame squarely on him as there were obviously many factors that lead to the disintegration of GNR.? But to continually defend and make excuses for his behaviour is a little silly i reckon, not to mention very difficult to defend given the weight of evidence that suggest he was/has been at the heart of most problems they faced

^ look at all the negative things that have happened with new gnr, failed tour, two riots, no explanation for the second one, no album since it's 1999 mention, buckethead left, multiple producers come n gone 13 million dollars spent, band members can not speak about anything involving cd and seem to know nothing about a release... So all this negative stuff has all happened after the old guys left.. These are axl's handpicked guys and yet he still can't get it right... I'd put axl at most of the blame, everyone is always ready, he just never can get it together..

 
 ?

well his rambling press release in 2002 pretty much told his side I thought. You know the one where he called Matt an albatross, claimed Slash nixed ideas because they would work etc ..

the simple point is, Axl has been at the heart of every dispute, fallout, resignation, firing, no-show, riot, cancellation, delay, creative difference, argument, lawsuit etc.. etc.. etc. and the list goes on

Basically, everything negative that has happened to GN'R has had something to do with Axl in some capacity. Thats not to lay the blame squarely on him as there were obviously many factors that lead to the disintegration of GNR.? But to continually defend and make excuses for his behaviour is a little silly i reckon, not to mention very difficult to defend given the weight of evidence that suggest he was/has been at the heart of most problems they faced

Yeah, I continually defend Axl don't I?   ???  I will now though.   >:(  What got me started on this topic was the fact that people were stating why GNR split up.  Like they know, nobody knows the truth, so it just make's me laugh when people say things like "Axl is a dictator and prick"  :hihi:.  What, do you know him?  No, what your basing your statement on is all the times you've heard a statement from Slash, or Matt, or Duff. 

I know Axl has problems (just like every other talented lead man), I know he is a perfectionist, I know he can be an ass, and I know he has control issues.  I'm just tired of people always refering to Slash and the boys as the "good guys" and Axl, being the "reason" for the breakup.  Have you guys ever thought that Axl was the "reason" why they had so much success in the first place.  I know I'm going to get a lot of responses for this, but it's true.  There are a lot of great musicians out there, but without a great front man, you won't get anywhere.   Popularity is gained from having a singer who knows how to sing, control a crowd, entertain, move, challenge, etc.  Slash, Duff, Matt,etc are all great musicians don't get me wrong, but Axl deserves better from you GNR fans.  Because in all honesty,  Axl made those guys.  Do you honestly think GNR would have been the same without Axl?  When looking at a great band, look no further than the front man.  A great guitar player can't make a band, but a great front man can.   

With all the problems Axl has, when he performs  ::), he is one of the greatest front men ever.  But all you guys want to do is give him shit for "breaking up the band", or not releasing anything. Axl is a human being just like you and I, he has a vision, his own beliefs.  Axl doesn't owe us anything.   I just hope that one day, we get to hear what he has been working on all these years.   

I agree with alot of your post - Axl was something else and it's undeniable that he added some magic to that lineup alright
but in all fairness, GN'R were greater than the sum of their parts and that has been illustrated again and again since about 1990

You are dead wrong. Axl didn't make the other guys, they made themselves, just like Axl made himself. Have you heard Rapidfire, Hollywood Rose? There were no Slash, no Duff, no Steven, just Axl and Izzy from the calssic line-up. And their music is below average. Noone would have bought their record. Noone. The magic of the 5 made Guns N' Roses, not Axl only. Look what he's done since 1996-1997. Nothing. Without the other guys, Izzy, Duff, Steven and mostly Slash Axl would be nothing. Just like Slash would be without the other 4.

Why is it so hard to understand for Axl lovers that Guns N' Roses wasn't him? Well, now he's Guns N' Roses, and we all enjoy his great vision and the music he's made since everyone left.

A frontman is important, I agree but as far as RnR is concerned guitar is equally important. Do u think SCOM would be as famous as it is, if it weren't for Slash's riffs? The lyrics are just average. Take the case of Led Zeppelin. IMO Jimmy Page had a far bigger profile than Plant.

I see your point.? However, don't call me an Axl lover.? I love GNR, plain and simple.? If someone was ripping on Slash or Duff on here, I would defend them as well.? Just because I think Axl ment more to GNR doesn't mean that I don't like the other guys.? And as for Axl being Guns N Roses now, I guess we will have to wait and see how Chinese Democracy does.? I just have a hunch that Chinese Democracy (if it ever comes out) will be much better than Slash's Snakepit, or Velvet Revolver, or any other band since they split up.? The other guys are great, don't get me wrong, but Axl took them to a whole new level.

And I understand your point about Rapidfire, and Hollywood Rose, but it's a rarity for someone to be there best on there first or second try.? That goes for anything.? Michael Jordan wasnt his best when he first came into the NBA.? Jim Carrey wasn't his best when he first became an actor.? Steven Tyler wasn't his best when he first hit the stage.? And I certainly wasn't my best the first time I had sex... :beer:? ? ?

They are cool for trying to make a CONCEPT ALBUM DUDES!

 Old GNR didnt broke up because of Axl's attempts to create something weird, it was because they couldnt work with him, and mostly he refused to let them participate, remember the snakepit songs, Slash offered Axl first.

 Now it IS contradictory that Axl didnt let the old gnr boys participate in the albums, and he suddenly let those strangers be part of the creative process.

To get back to the topic at hand...

The old members left because they didn't like Axl's direction, not because he wanted to do a concept album.

End of story.

Alright I see your point. For me Slash was the most important part of GN'R, and I'm a die-hard fan of the two Snakepit incarnations, too. I just love his guitar playing. But some people prefer Axl's parts. It's fine.  :beer:

Well I doubt there will be any ten minute piano songs and I'm sure it will come out before Chi Dem

So the projects name is LIBERTAD, interesting word by the way. And like Scott said "It can mean several things"

shouldn't it be Liberdad in spanish. Isn't Libetad latin?

I read in the news that its LIBERTAD the spanish word.

you're right Libertad is spanish

If it is anywhere as good as the 'concept' albums put out by The Who and Pink Floyd, 'twill be mint. :peace:

Last I checked, AFD and UYI were concept albums. There's clearly a running theme to both.
I would have even argued that Contraband is a concept album in some way (all about Scott;s and the other member's drug habits and how they overcame them).

I honestly didn;t think that VR could top Contraband, but if they can which they clearly indicating is a total possibility, then they could very well catapulr themselves to the forefront of rock music today (up there with bands like Green Day).

BTW - Slash and Duff left GNR for separate reasons. Slash left because of the musical directions that Axl wanted to take and Duff left because Axl wasn't on schedule anymore and was holding back his own personal life by being late to sessions. But both reasons were directly involving Axl and his poor decision making which has plagued his bandmates and fans since 1994.
 :peace:
MNW

see that's the point, not everyone viewed axl as the most important of influential member of gnr.. Many of us got interested in gnr when we heard the guitar, hearijng slash is a big reason many of people from the past generation went out and bought guitars..

No doubt axl played a huge roll in gnr's success, but I think the five guys did it together.. Take a show like seinfeld, it took the team to make the show great.. That is like afd gnr.. Seinfeld split with the team broken up isn't quite as good

So for me as much as I loved the team, and axl rose slash is what made me want to hear many of those heavy guitar songs with great solos..

dont know if this has been mentioned but how stupid is Axl gonna look if VR do an amazing concept record in about 6 months???

D I'll tell you the difference I think between vr and new gnr is the instruments and the amount of people used in the band.. I think more die hard new gnr fans follow axl because they like his diversity with instruments and ballads... Simply saying with axl you will get keyboards synths and piano ballads (people looking for the next estranged or november rain) With vr you can possibly get a hint of that... Even so vr will probably throw a ballad here n there and give you straight up rock.. I think no matter how good their album is it won't compare in a new gnr only fan's mind because they want  Maddy, the blues, estranged, and NR where as they will never get that from vr...

I think axl looks stupid already even if cd is great... The waiting, the holding back his band members from their gnr project.. If he puts out  agreat album I will love it but as a fan nothing will justify the wait or lack of communication betwen him and the fans

Yeah. Working on an album for 11 years is stupid enough, without having to be upstaged by ur ex-band members. ;)

good point Mike! no wonder it's so hard to please that party over there

don't worry about them, just enjoy the new VR when it comes.

You beat me to it man. I was thinking about the exact same thing yesterday. I dunno about UYI... but I was gonna say "You people need to understand that AFD is in itself a concept record"... its got a running theme throughout. Its all about the street life.. drugs, sex, and rock n' roll motherfuckers.

and before anyone comes out and tells me why what VR is doing is different.. I understand.. they're going for an "offical" concept record.. and theyre working on an "album" not "a bunch of songs" like DSOTM.. i get it..



Omg dude.. that would be so embaressing... I can't even express it. Oh god.. I can even imagine the reviews... "VR has done in 6 months what Axl Rose has taken 10 years to do, and with the release of this new record it doesn't seem like anyone cares anymore" .. O well.. at least I'll have something to listen to.

I think Scott Weilland can make as good songs as Axl. He is a strong creative force.

Yeah, Scott's a 'strong creative force', but nowhere even close to Axl. Scotts best work is Core, and it went downhill from there.

Well I hope Scott overwhelms us all this time.

I would argue the opposite is true. The later-day STP albums--"Tiny Music," "No4," "SLDD" are far more creative than "Core," which, although a good album, is his LEAST creative work. As far as creativity goes, I'd go with "12 Bar Blues," an underrated masterpiece.

Core? ha that is their least creative work by far. They made a conscious effort to not make the same record twice with every release

You can make a rock and roll concept album. Axl was moving into move orchestral crap, and most of all he was a dictating asshole who couldn't get anything done.

Based on what I've heard from Axl with his new line-up, I'd be reserving judgements comparing Axl to Scott...cause w/out Slash and the boys....Axl doesn't impress me in the least yet

lofton, you've got to listen to 12 Bar Blues and later STP albums  : ok: